CORRECTION: it has been very kindly brought to my attention that I misspoke and gave the date that Henry VIII became king as his date of death. He became king on 22nd April 1509, he died on 28th January 1547. I apologise for the mistake.
@@maggiekent7753you are most kind. Unfortunately, I frequently have trouble with dates (numbers in general really) - I believe it is connected to me being dyslexic.
Thank you for noting the HIGH IMPROBABILITY that Anne ever strove for any kind of relationship with Henry, least of all any foolish idea that she could replace Catherine. That was Henry’s idea first and foremost. And he was the only person with the ability to make it happen too.
I have *never* believed the accepted tale that Anne played the long game. She loved someone else for a start. She would have been well aware that she couldn't simply tell Henry to leave her be and that she didn't want him. Quite apart from the fact that this would be treason, her family would have been keen for her to end in his bed one way or another. I believe she strung it out in the hope that he would get bored and find someone else to bother. If only she had become his mistress, her life would have been saved and once the king got bored, she could have married Henry Percy who she wanted originally, to marry.
@@PhyllisGlassup2TheBrim I don’t believe anyone in her family would have actually wanted her in Henry’s bed, if only because Anne herself wanted to marry well so she could continue championing Evangelism, and it seems George was equally enthusiastic in his religious feelings. I believe both them and her father would have wanted to see Anne in a respectable marriage far away from ANY involvement with Henry after already losing Mary to that fate.
@@OhSkyeLanta I can't recall if I'd read it in Alison Weir' book or heard it in Suzannah Lipscomb's documentary, but what it said is that it was highly unlikely that the Boleyns were enthusiastic about the possibility of Anne becoming Henry's mistress (or being romantically involved with him), because it negated her chances of marrying well. It was the entertainment industry of the 20th century that created the narrative of plotting nobles pushing their daughters into the king's bed, and the Tudor court being a sort of a Playboy mansion with women falling over themselves to gain Henry's attention. In reality, this was a feudal age with strict rules of hierarchy. The influence of religion on everyday life was strong and moral standards were different. I believe the fact that we are still fascinated by Henry VIII shows that even our liberal, modern society finds his behaviour at least a little bit shocking and scandalous.
I agree! I think at first she was in love with Henry Percy and wanted nothing to do with Henry VIII. I feel badly for her that she was basically manoeuvred into being Queen. And as she had no choice, she went with it.
It’s difficult to grow when you are handed unlimited power and wealth at 17. I’d be shocked if he had matured, adversity and overcoming obstacles is what helps us grow as humans, he never had to learn how to pick locks, he could just kick down any door. Or rather, have somebody kick it down on his order.
In my 72 years I’ve met people who were both prudish and very sexually active. Humans are very good at embodying very different, even oppositional, behaviors. Some were conflicted and driven, others simply hypocritical and both were often emotionally and sometimes physically dangerous to the men and women with whom they were involved. All seemed to me to have an over weaning sense of entitlement, which in my experience made it impossible for them to genuinely love another as that requires some sacrifice of need, no matter how healthy the relationship. A healthy ability to give up some needs is, after all, crucial to moving from infancy to adulthood. Henry has always seemed deeply immature to me.
@@Roz-y2d He was very entitled and spoiled…but was not cruel until after until after a severe head injury sustained while jousting. It seemed to entirely change his personality, which can happen.
He used his wives’ ladies in waiting to satisfy his lust. He was lazy in that respect and in that respect also, he didn’t care how humiliating and disrespectful that was to his wives. He saw people, women and men, as pawns that he could move around or eliminate when he tired of them.
We are lucky to be born in modern times, where we have so much freedom. The women in medieval times were extremely suppressed and controlled. I feel bad for them.
True. But he also had valid and real reasons for wanting a son. That combined with never having heard the word “no” can keep people from developing any empathy.
@k.stacey7389 He didn't. English law recognised his legitimate daughter, Mary, as his legal heir before he went and annulled the marriage with her mother. He was obsessed with getting a male heir, but not because of any laws or legal requirements.
I feel like Henry's unexpected accession to the heirship, combined with the piety inculcated in a child expected to go into the church, combined to create a truly monstrous ego. He had been taught that kings rule by divine right, and here he was, brought to the throne by the chance of his brother's death. Surely, God favored him. And from then on, any event in his life that disrupted that perfect chivalric pattern was a personal affront.
I absolutely love the Tudor period and the machinations and shenanigans that went on. I'm obsessed with Thomas Cromwell. That being said, could you please do a video about Eustace Chapuys. This guy must have a LOT to tell. Thank you for another wonderful Tudor fix video. Best wishes
I once read an evocative description of ten year old Henry escorting Catherine to her wedding to Arthur and his burning jealousy that all the finery, the cloth of gold, the fuss, the adoring eyes, as well as the beautiful girl were for Arthur who he had always resented as the heir. Arthur was weak and sickly--delicate; whilst Henry knew he was strong, physically and mentally gifted. And yet it was Arthur who was his parents', and the nation's prize. The description, although obviously fiction has stayed with me. To me, it fits the personality that emerged in the adult Henry. I think in the teenage Henry's mind that image and desire stayed and festered. He fixated. His father vacillating about Henry n Catherine marrying frustrated Henry; even when his father seemed to be favouring the match he made difficulties about the dowry. Henry also got to "heroically" rescue Catherine from poverty and privation whilst feeling that he was finally acting as *he* wished, not following his father's orders. Maybe too it was a gesture to those who thought him too young to rule, and a sign to the rest of Christendom that England had a dynamic, fast acting king. I do think Ann couldn't possibly have hoped to be queen in the beginning. Her "Your mistress i will not be; your wife i cannot be" is often interpreted as the first move in her game but looked at another way it was a bravely terse, "give him no encouragement" factual refusal.
Being the spoiled narcissist he was, I believe that he plowed through his wives and various mistresses purely because he could. I do believe that he started out as a romantic but through the years of no male heir, disappointments regarding his love life and State problems he became embittered and self pitying. His impulsive, cruel nature exacerbated by all the years of selfish striving for the prize (Ann) turned out to be another cruel blow to poor Henry.
I never understood why people read so much into the fact that Henry was buried next to Jane. She was his heir’s mother. Two of his wives were executed as traitors, one was shunned after divorce, and the other two outlived him. Always seemed like an extremely obvious resting place to me.
This is a great comprehensive rundown of Henry's relationship history. I never heard of some of those women. But I think the topic could use a conclusion of discussing how Henry's behaviour would have been viewed at the time in the context of knowledge and belief. I am sceptical towards those illegitimate children, especially sons. Before Edward was born, Henry would've felt that claiming sons would look good for his abilities (so to speak) and keeping track of potential backup heirs. Unless claiming them would injure his interest in other matters. From the modern point of view, Hnery was a lothario, cheating on his wives while claiming to love them. However, it is my understanding that male abstinence was considered harmful to health (?) and relations during pregnancy were not advisable (?), so no one thought twice about Kings (especially) taking up mistresses when Queens were with child. Having mistresses was also a sign of virility as the example of the French shows us. And I doubt anyone would blame Henry for wanting a legitimate heir and looking for a wife able to provide him with one. There is a lot one of authority can justify by evoking the will or word of God. His not admiting to countless bastards probably did not hurt his image, as did providing for his mistresses by marrying them off if needed. By the standards of the day, I would think only some of his behaviour would raise an eyebrow or warrant a private judgement. Beheading his wives aside, I doubt he was promiscuous than many other Lords in his kingdom and abroad. Personally, with the hindsight and modern sensibilities, I think that all Henry's love was selfish and narcissistic, only welcome if it reflected well on him and was bendable to his will. I doubt he ever loved anyone, wife, mistresses, or daughter. Or even his son. His mother gained his affection in childhood, and she probably remained the only woman he ever loved.
Even modern British kings want an Heir and a Spare, and are prepared to use young women of noble birth to be brood mares while they carry on with their affair..The latest 'spare' has even written a book about it. Nothing will ever change as long as there are a family of special, wealthy, entitled people in control and a strict caste system in the UK.
Very well said…was about to leave a similar message. Within his social group his behavior would have been admired, though I wonder what folks really thought about him once he was old. That head injury he incurred appears to have his personality, which I suspect made matters worse. He certainly did not gracefully accept old age.
I’ve always wished Anne’s letters back to Henry from their courtship survived. There must have been SO much fascinating information there. I think she didn’t really want to marry him, but was forced to by her awful family. Henry sounds like a malignant narcissist for whom NOTHING is ever his fault. He switched from prude to prurient on a dime, depending on his current wants.
I think Anne of Cleves is a fantastic example of that. Henry loved the illusion of the romantic, but when she didn't play with him (for 100% reasonable reasons!!) his ego took over.
Henry was by all accounts a hottie in his prime. England didn’t lose its collective mind in joy over him taking his father’s place for no reason. It is kind of sad that he will never be remembered as anything but a fat grumpy old man. But, I suppose some could say that he deserves it. He wanted a legacy and to be remembered forever, careful what you wish for!
🔥🤱👑😢 I don’t think Henry was ever motivated by just one thing. Depending on what point of his life we are discussing, his motivations would change, but I think the answer was always multi pronged.
Hearing that Henry the 8th was so handsome when he was young, makes me think that it regrettable that photography and videography were not available at that time so that I could enjoy looking at him. Of all the wives; Catherine of Aragon had been lucky to have married him when he young and good looking. I pity Catherine Howard who merely 18 and had him when he was at his worst in every way.
Henry's maternal grandfather (Edward IV) has been memorably described as 'our most wench-ridden monarch until Charles II' and it has always seemed to me that Henry resembled his mother's side of the family more than the Tudor side. 😊 Although I reckon that whenever Henry strayed from the marital path he was quick to confess and get absolution for it, after all, his Grandmother, Margaret Beaufort had a reputation for piety and as a second son, Henry may have been intended for a career in the church. Poor Henry; his libido and his conscience must've been waging a constant battle. I pity the women his roving eye settled on. 💘🤴💔
So much good info on Henry VIII. Thanks Dr. Kat! Hearing the comment that a potential Queen said she only one head made me think that Henry was overly nice to Anne of Cleves when dissolving their marriage as an overreaction to that comment.
She had given him no reason to do anything else. Any adverse move against her would have made him look bad on the international stage You can kill your subjects, but not so easy to kill someone with powerful friends and family abroad. . He had excuses for his treatment of Katherine, Anne and Catherine, But Anne played the game perfectly and outmanoeuvred him at every turn. Simply by complying fully with all his demands. I think she must have ben even more glad to be rid of him than he was her.
Would you please do a video on Princess Sophia, daughter of George III and Charlotte (there are a lot of princesses named Sophia!)? I did some research and it’s very frustrating. I found that the authors would begin talking about Sophia and shortly thereafter change the focus to someone else. The neglect of Princess Sophia’s history begs for your attention. Thank you.
I think he was overly indulged as a prince, eventhough he was a prince, and this was encouraged as a king. I think most of that encouragement came from the men wanting to get close to power. Most of the time, the women were also willing in this power game. I believe, some were not as willing. I wish Henry had been a braver man, but he wasn't. And he used that lack as an excuse to do what he did with his wives and even some lovers. 👶😭
19:42 oh oh my favorite part around this point, when Henry8 offers Anne to be his mistress, he says basically if she accepts him that he won’t have any other mistresses other than her. Some people call that romantic, but what it really means is that while he’s trying to love bomb Anne, he’s still been hooking up with other women!!! So much for being in love, eh Henry??? 😂😂😂😂
I just love (and I say that with heavy sarcasm) how Henry was allowed to poke his scepter into anyone he wished with no consequence, but as always, the women were seen as less afterward. Anne Boleyn (possibly) seeing a "good enough" marriage after her "virtue" was taken away... Man, that whole thing just boils my blood!
Chapyus referring to Anne Boleyn as a ‘concubine’ in a period well after she had been crowned as queen leaves little to the imagination when it comes to his opinion of her!! Lol 😅
No one had ever said no to him. And total power corrupts totally. And how could any woman say no ? It will destroy not only herself but also her family
He was definitely randy, if not beyond, the old satyr. 🐐 I know kings often thought of most people as pawns, but this guy seems to've taken that a step further. A goat seems the best emoji for him to me, satyrs being half goat🐐
Loved this episode, he was motived by 🏃 for sure. He wanted the spare in case something happened to Edward. I've 2 merch mug ideas "This is not a drinking game" & "I don't support that message" the latter would be very useful everyday in my environment 🙃.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Henry was more in love with the concept of love than the actual emotion and commitment. It was also written that Henry could be very prudish when it came to the shenanigans and dalliances of his court; that he kept his own activities on the low down because he didn't want anyone to know what went on with his own bedroom escapades.
I want to thank you for your channel. I've become very interested in history due to an interest in what people want you think about people like kings and realizing I know very little about my family and what life was like for them and particularly for women. My grandparents died young or when I was very young except for my grandmother who has never had any interest in a conversation with me. My other grandmother had an aneurismin her mid thrirties and was mistreated by her husband and had nearly 10 children. My mom knows very little about her as she is the youngest and was 5. I have no aunts. I have few stories, and many of my uncles have died due to a genetic disorder. My only objects she owned that I inherited were her bread pan and her cook book. My grandfather immediately married his mistress who mistreated my mother. I love knowing more about what life was like for women in history. Things are well recorded as a result of the misogyny of the time and the treachery so I especially love learning of the Tudors! It's a good reminder of what misogyny has been suffered to remain and what we can do to make life better for everyone. It is kind of interesting to me that the purpose in life used to so often be to have children (and hope you secured an agreeable husband) and my purpose is NOT to have children due to my genetic disorder. I still wish to get married. It makes you think about why we are here and who we even are to be put in my position. History sometimes is a peek behind that curtain. Like why suffer a mistress? My mother was not the sort. History taught me why.
I always felt that he was so mad about Jane Seymour simply because she didn't hang around long enough to get on his nerves if she had who knows he seems to spin on a dime with his wives
Henry was never lacking audacity. I just love how he complained about Anne of Cleves possibly not being a virgin, hypocrisy in and of itself, but Catherine Howard was able to hide her own past from him? It’s almost like you can’t tell someone’s sexual history just by looking at them!
@@adriannespring8598 I don’t know about that. Granted it had been a long time between these marriages and he was a different man, but Catherine of Aragon was definitely a rather serious type. Jane Seymour as well. You can also argue that about Catherine Parr too, to a degree, although she was also a rebel in her own way. The only really “exciting” women he was with were Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard, and that and their downfalls is why they’ve earned their ill-deserved reputations. I personally believe he was really affected by the infamous first impression where she rebuffed him, not recognizing him when he came in disguise to surprise her. One could interpret that as her being “boring,” or you could also see it as her being rather naive and unprepared, and she had to learn quickly how to navigate her situation in a new place. And his varied taste in wives shows that he didn’t have one “type.” When a more serious one disappointed him, he ran for a more exciting one. When that tired him, he retreated to someone more serious again. It was less about their personality and more about how they appealed to him and *his* moods.
His use of relationships changes throughout his life- at first it is for confirming his ability to produce heirs and then as he gets older it is for ego/emotional support. I don’t think he was in it for the sex- the beginning of his relationship with Catherine of Aragon is telling with all the fantasy and role play and that gives the impression that he was looking for this dynamic in his relationships. There was a lot of doubt of his own ability to produce an heir and in the first portion of his life he tried to prove to others and himself he could do it by creating (illegitimate) heirs in order to take the heat off. After his jousting injury, his pride/ego seems incredibly damaged and he’s hyper sensitive/ill in his relationship with Anne Boleyn (not to mention she didn’t produce any male heirs) so he lashes out. After that, it seems like he goes wherever he can feel supported and good about himself (Kathryn Howard) and lashes out when insecure (Ann of Cleves).
I'm absolutely over the moon that your website is now operational. I will definitely check it out after watching this video. I hope this TH-cam channel will continue on because your videos really perk up my Fridays and I so look forward to watching them (great way to start my weekend).
Thank you for another WONDERFUL recording! I am 61 and, only recently, have gotten into ancestry and found out about a LOT of gentry and royal ancestors. This, in turn, has given me a voracious interest in history! I can't begin to tell you how much I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all your recordings!!! You are a BLESSING!!! BTW, Henry VIII was a narcissist. Period. ☺(I love your comment about recognizing his hypocrisy! 😂 )
When exploring your own historical genealogy be very suspicious, and insist on specifically genealogical citations and primary sources, not just the garden variety Chicago historical citations. Check sources with a critical eye. Lastly- don’t do it if you are bothered by MAJOR skeletons in the family closet. There are many who will take your money and tell you lies to feed your ego. Most of us are related to nobodies, but those stories are valuable and fascinating.
Is it possible that one of Ann's motives for "wait and see" was Catherine's pregnancies, combined with her age? If she ever found herself daydreaming about a crown, surely the odds were better that with all the miscarriages, stillbirths etc Catherine would die of an infection. In fact it's rather extraordinary that she didn't, specially considering the possibility of incomplete miscarriages.
I can't recall if I'd read it in Alison Weir' book or heard it in Suzannah Lipscomb's documentary, but what it said is that it was highly unlikely that the Boleyns were enthusiastic about the possibility of Anne becoming Henry's mistress (or being romantically involved with him), because it negated her chances of marrying well. It was the entertainment industry of the 20th century that created the narrative of plotting nobles pushing their daughters into the king's bed, and the Tudor court being a sort of a Playboy mansion with women falling over themselves to gain Henry's attention. In reality, this was a feudal age with strict rules of hierarchy. The influence of religion on everyday life was strong and moral standards were different. I believe the fact that we are still fascinated by Henry VIII shows that even our liberal, modern society finds his behaviour at least a little bit shocking and scandalous.
I thingk Henry was both, he wanted many different women, but didn’t want people to think he was promiscuous. He was quite prudish about coarse jokes, etc.
Excellent, as always. Thought provoking. But these letters you cited, describing Henry, are exactly what I would write if I expected someone (in his court) to open and read my thoughts in order to report to him. Obsequious, almost irritatingly ingratiating, hmm?
The glowing ambassadorial descriptions of Henry VIII belie an important failing: A lack of emotional intelligence. Yes, he was well tutored in the courtly arts, languages, martial skills, etc. But a man brought up to understand his only worth is to produce a male heir, having had no succor of loving parenting ( not to be expected ) can’t really be expected to be generous with grace in any sense of the word. That, in my opinion is why it was so … not so much easy, but rational … in his very immature and spoiled brain to discard so many wives. He may have thought there was love, but truly I think he deluded himself in hope that his wife du jour would give him the longed-for male heir. I also think Dr. Kat’s explanation of why he was buried next to Jane Seymour jibes with my theory.
His declining health certainly effected his emotions ! Being King he was under a lot o9f pressure to produce an heir. The results are apparent and gruesome . Great discussion as always , Dr. Kat!❤
It’s interesting that Henry claimed to be able to discern that Anne of Cleves was not a virgin, but he wasn’t able to tell that about Katherine Howard.
Interesting topic. I'm in the second camp, but open to changing my mind depending upon what Dr. Kat has to say. I can only think of a handful of mistresses. Three? Maybe four. Far fewer than would have been acceptable for him. I think he was a romantic, on top of the infamous quest for an heir. I do believe he loved Katherine. He had his pick of wives at first, but he'd probably had a crush on his sister in law as a child. I don't think he'd have been with her for 24 years without genuine affection. All the others combined lasted less than the time he spent with Katherine & I kinda hope he went to his grave regretting what he did to her. I also think he loved Anne. It was a tumultuous, too intense love at times. I still don't understand why he let the whispers get to him. I don't think it was about Anne not giving him a son, if he'd wanted, they had time to try again. I think her downfall was politically motivated but just don't see why Henry went along with it. His great "true love", imo, just gave him what he wanted & died before there was time for things to go bad. I think after losing his first three wives (& being responsible for each on different way) & his son in quick succession, along with a sharp decline in health after a couple bad jousting incidents, he was in a clinical depression, likely impotent (which may have been an issue earlier). He'd have been dealing with guilt, grief, chronic pain and loss of self esteem due to weight gain & immobility limiting him from his favorite activities. He didn't have a therapist. He knew he wasn't ready to marry, but he was pushed by others & predictably it didn't work. He never wanted the Cleves marriage. I firmly believe that, had she not met his expectation of beauty, Holbein would have been among (or primary in) those he lashed out at. I think it was purely psychological & he was in a very dark headspace. But he's certainly not going to be blamed for his inability to get it up. So, she becomes the mare of Flanders, humiliation across Europe likely being her reason for staying in England. She got a good deal out of it, comparatively, but was never able to marry or have her own children. I hope that's what she wanted, though it wasn't what she was raised expecting. Then, he sets in on a beautiful, bubbly first cousin of his second wife. She's a teenager. His a disabled middle aged man. I think she was light & happy and young enough to make him feel the same. I think his depression had lifted enough to feel again & she made him feel young and alive for the first time in years. She should have been a mistress. My number one question to him about his wives is WHY marry Catherine? Because she made him feel young? We saw with Bessie & FitzRoy that he didn't need legitimacy to acknowledge a royal son. I wonder what his mistresses thought. I think it was related to his depression, maybe crediting her with his return to feeling himself. But this was a girl who's whole life was known to people he had access to. She was English & he had connections to her family. He could (& someone SHOULD) have fully vetted her before marriage. I don't think he wanted to see the thorns. I think he executed he for the exact reasons listed. She was factually guilty. But she was an f'ing child. Victimized at every turn until the day she died. I don't even understand how her family would let it happen. Catherine was a first cousin to Anne & Mary Boleyn, sisters, and there's also their first cousin, Madge Shelton. There's rumor he was also with their half cousin Elizabeth Carew for a time (I am not aware of anything supporting the rumor). Henry just tore through the girls of that family & they should have refused after Anne was killed. I think he needed someone who would challenge him intellectually & personally. He liked smart, strong women. I'm not saying Catherine wasn't, and I think she's underestimated by history in general, but she was still so young, she hadn't figured out who she would be long term. She wasn't interested in a challenging philosophical debate or discussing political theory and strategy because she was a kid. I don't doubt she'd have gotten there if given a chance. But she wasn't. She should have been a mistress. Parr was his equal in many ways & I think after Catherine he realized he needed an adult woman who knew how to maneuver the court. She was an intelligent woman who published at least 3 books, all protestant in nature. She even got herself out of an arrest warrant on the religious tightrope that was the Tudor court. She was still young enough to be his granddaughter. She DID go on to have a child after Henry's death. Because it was her third marriage I think people forget she was 30 years younger than Henry. Marriages ; Katherine of Aragon- 24 years Anne Boleyn -3 years Jane Seymour -1 year Anna von Cleves- 6 months Catherine Howard -1 1/2 years Kateryn Parr-3 1/2 years Mistresses Bessie Blount, Mary Boleyn & her first cousin Madge Shelton and possibly Jane Popincourt (& less likely, Elizabeth Carew) would have all been during his first marriage. Anne Bassett was in Henry's usual pool of potential Mistresses as lady to Jane, Catherine Howard and Katherine Parr. I've seen her on lists of his mistresses but I'm not aware of any evidence. So, there are three confirmed mistresses. That's really not a lot for a king on the era, especially over such a long time period.
You argue that the family shouldnt let him marry Catherine ( I guess you mean Catherine Howard). But: girls back then werent more than goods to be exchanged for political, dynastic or financial reasons. The aristocracy seldom married for love but for a lot of other reasons ( see above). And a girl married to the king meant a lot of financial and political gain as well as an excellent prospect for the men of the famuly.
I agree with this analysis. But I do think the Howards were fucking stupid for allowing the marriage to happen with Catherine’s past- it was going to get out, and didn’t they SEE what happened to Anne?? I think people were greedy and hoping she would become pregnant quickly and appease the king. No one was looking out for Catherine Howard at all. I also think Francis Durham was in over his head, why would he come to court knowing he had sex with the now queen?? Again- did no one see what happened to Anne Boleyn??
Henry, to my mind, was a narcissist, whose narcissism grew as he got older. In his early years, he had the physical attributes and strength more suited to his view of himself, but as age, lifestyle and disease took hold, he was left with just his power and brutality. Like all narcissists, he had no real capacity for love or respect, and no moral compass. What he wanted was what God would have wanted. Behind this all, however, lay a brittle sense of self worth, easily undermined by perceived betrayals and slights, requiring brutal retribution to maintain his self-esteem. In his youth, he could play the chivalrous lover with ease. However, he would have seen his deteriorating body, seen and smelt his ulcerous leg, felt the pains that increasingly dogged his life. He would have needed to offset all this with the pursuit of trophy mistresses and wives, with humiliation of those around him in the court, and with increasing brutality. Pity the women around him, especially if cursed by beauty.
Bravo! I find this such a fascinating examination of king Henry VIII His personality evolved with maturity and perhaps digressed after his jousting accident that sent him mentally spiraling toward incompetence. it seems his youthful confidence became longer periods of indifference, self doubt and paranoia leading to emotion responses becoming unpredictable. The feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness after The sudden death of Jane set him on a projection that permanently challenged his self image. His new lack of morality and mortality were on a collision course of self destruction A peaceful existence eluded him and his religious conflicts tortured his soul. Perhaps the entire Tudor legacy can me summed up in the adage, “Be mindful of what you ask for, as you shall surely get it.”
Can’t wait to hear Dr. Kat on this. As far as I’m aware, there are only 8 women who Henry is confirmed to have slept with. Wives included. That’s a relatively low number by today’s standards but for a 16th century king? Katherine, Anne, Jane, Catherine & Katherine. Then Bessie, a Shelton sister (probably Madge) & Mary Boleyn. I’m aware of speculation about a few others but I’d be surprised & interested if there’s any concrete evidence. Sometimes it’s a pretty big stretch, but Anne Bassett seems plausible. Ok, prevideo comment done, time to watch Dr. Kat 🤍🌹
He was king for a long time, I think he had different motivations for what he did as he grew older but I think it was always about him. His wants and needs and some political pressure. Nothing is ever straightforward from the past, you can’t ask them what they were thinking and we can only speculate from what information we have. The victorious, idolizers and haters write the history and we usually only get what they want us to know. Both my father and my husband had strokes, both were affected with personality changes. My husband not as much as my dad but trauma will with mess people, it brought out the worst in my dad. I also think it matters how much the people around them let them get away with. I didn’t put up with nonsense from either of them. In the king’s case you also had to think “how will this affect/end my life” if I say anything he doesn’t like. Henry was in a lot of pain that could have been prevented with modern medicine. Constant pain along with a head injury didn’t do him any favors I think.
I don't know how succession works, but seems to me that a man who was so desperate for a son, would let even illegit sons go out of his life/influence with the exception of Fitzroy.
24:11 a great time to remind everyone that MERCY should come in the form of a) a lighter sentence, b) hearing her defense against the accusations (Henry did not attend her trial or execution) c) letting them LIVE. Picking a swordsman over the usual axe to the neck is not an example of “mercy”.
I've always kindof wondered if Henry growing up the in care of his mother saw then love between his parents and always seeked to embody that with his love interests, I think he could have been a hopeless romantic who fell in love or at least he thought in love with the women very quickly and fell out of love with them just as quickly when they didn't live up to his imagined version of them.
😵💫 I think he got full of himself. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all. Video idea: I’d love to hear more about Prince Johnny, son of King George and Mary of Teck.
( 🪰🦂🤢🚽 it's difficult to find an Applicable emoji..) Anyway,... Henry's Motivation??.. He was a very Self-indulgent, Narcissistic, Lust-Driven guy.... Who, unfortunately, possessed the power to satiate his appetite without ANY regards to either self-control or concern for others. 😮Just my Opinion. Great Video as Always! Thank You!
If you want to see a funny depiction of Henry's and Anne of Cleves' wedding night, see the very old Charles Laughton film, The Private Life of Henry VII. They play cards and he owes her money. 😂
Thank you for a wonderful video!! I was wondering if Henry’s obsession could have been a product of being a part of his father’s court. His mother died trying to have another baby. It may have seemed very important in his adolescent brain and transferred to adulthood. It didn’t help that he couldn’t seem to have a boy with a wife either.😢 I don’t think he was a prude. I think he was obsessed. And having access to the women of his wive’s court, didn’t help that obsession.
As I understand it, there weren’t many women that Henry would have interacted with other than the Queen’s ladies. It’s not as if he would have met many women who weren’t the wives or daughters of his highest ranking noblemen or his family (I hadn’t known about his having an affair with his first cousin *shudder*)
I think Henry's attitude would have been: I can cat around all I want to, but my girlfriends/wives better be absolutely faithful to ME! Period. Love the video as always. Peace! 💗
Don't know if this will be seen but will try none the less, any chance you would consider doing a video on Lord Byron and/or the other Romantics? If not then thats fine, I appreciate your content nonetheless, my favourite is your video on John Wilmot, 2nd Earl Of Rochester, have watched and re-watched it at least over ten times!! Thank you for all the content you put out.
Definitely a Randy Royal. Although probably only unusual among the ranks of European kings for marrying six times and not just having a string of mistresses and forcing himself on any servant he wanted..
In his youth, he was definitely a randy royal. He was young, hot af, a renaissance educated monarch, and it was accepted. I've always wondered if he and Catherine of Aragon had rh factor incompatibility and that's why she had such a difficult time carrying a child to term. After his accident, he changed. While he may have always had jealous, tyrannical, and cruel tendencies, the aftermath of his accident brought those to the forefront.
CORRECTION: it has been very kindly brought to my attention that I misspoke and gave the date that Henry VIII became king as his date of death. He became king on 22nd April 1509, he died on 28th January 1547. I apologise for the mistake.
Thank you for this. I thought I was hearing things!!
very unlike you to make a mistake. Shows you're just human !
@@maggiekent7753you are most kind. Unfortunately, I frequently have trouble with dates (numbers in general really) - I believe it is connected to me being dyslexic.
@@ReadingthePastI thought that when I heard you say it. Please don't worry.
❤
Thank you for noting the HIGH IMPROBABILITY that Anne ever strove for any kind of relationship with Henry, least of all any foolish idea that she could replace Catherine. That was Henry’s idea first and foremost. And he was the only person with the ability to make it happen too.
I have *never* believed the accepted tale that Anne played the long game.
She loved someone else for a start. She would have been well aware that she couldn't simply tell Henry to leave her be and that she didn't want him. Quite apart from the fact that this would be treason, her family would have been keen for her to end in his bed one way or another.
I believe she strung it out in the hope that he would get bored and find someone else to bother.
If only she had become his mistress, her life would have been saved and once the king got bored, she could have married Henry Percy who she wanted originally, to marry.
@@PhyllisGlassup2TheBrim I don’t believe anyone in her family would have actually wanted her in Henry’s bed, if only because Anne herself wanted to marry well so she could continue championing Evangelism, and it seems George was equally enthusiastic in his religious feelings. I believe both them and her father would have wanted to see Anne in a respectable marriage far away from ANY involvement with Henry after already losing Mary to that fate.
@@OhSkyeLanta I can't recall if I'd read it in Alison Weir' book or heard it in Suzannah Lipscomb's documentary, but what it said is that it was highly unlikely that the Boleyns were enthusiastic about the possibility of Anne becoming Henry's mistress (or being romantically involved with him), because it negated her chances of marrying well.
It was the entertainment industry of the 20th century that created the narrative of plotting nobles pushing their daughters into the king's bed, and the Tudor court being a sort of a Playboy mansion with women falling over themselves to gain Henry's attention.
In reality, this was a feudal age with strict rules of hierarchy. The influence of religion on everyday life was strong and moral standards were different.
I believe the fact that we are still fascinated by Henry VIII shows that even our liberal, modern society finds his behaviour at least a little bit shocking and scandalous.
Exactly
I agree! I think at first she was in love with Henry Percy and wanted nothing to do with Henry VIII. I feel badly for her that she was basically manoeuvred into being Queen. And as she had no choice, she went with it.
I believe Henry never out grew adolescents. He behaved as a teenager most of his "adult" life & with his power he could indulge himself.
Most narcissists are very immature…
Yes, Catherine Howard is evidence that he never outgrew adolescents. (You mean “adolescence”.)
It’s difficult to grow when you are handed unlimited power and wealth at 17. I’d be shocked if he had matured, adversity and overcoming obstacles is what helps us grow as humans, he never had to learn how to pick locks, he could just kick down any door. Or rather, have somebody kick it down on his order.
Very astute. I follow HG Tudor on narcissistic matters. I've heard him say that Henry viii was a narcissistic psychopath.
Edward viii was the same, but he wasn’t a psychopath like Henry viii .
In my 72 years I’ve met people who were both prudish and very sexually active. Humans are very good at embodying very different, even oppositional, behaviors. Some were conflicted and driven, others simply hypocritical and both were often emotionally and sometimes physically dangerous to the men and women with whom they were involved. All seemed to me to have an over weaning sense of entitlement, which in my experience made it impossible for them to genuinely love another as that requires some sacrifice of need, no matter how healthy the relationship. A healthy ability to give up some needs is, after all, crucial to moving from infancy to adulthood. Henry has always seemed deeply immature to me.
Wow. Well said. The idea that he was innately evil always bothered me. Is that even possible?
@@Roz-y2d He was very entitled and spoiled…but was not cruel until after until after a severe head injury sustained while jousting. It seemed to entirely change his personality, which can happen.
@@sharonkaczorowski8690I always thought Henry had a TBI after his 1536 accident and that’s when he went off the rails.
Henry calling Anne of Cleaves ugly gives me the same vibes as those guys who hit on women and when they get turned down she’s all of a sudden “ugly”.
I think Henry VIII felt entitled as King to do whatever he felt and so he acted upon that.
He used his wives’ ladies in waiting to satisfy his lust. He was lazy in that respect and in that respect also, he didn’t care how humiliating and disrespectful that was to his wives. He saw people, women and men, as pawns that he could move around or eliminate when he tired of them.
Sadly, many men still possess that attitude, as they are carefully taught.
@@clare5oneSadly so do many women.
We are lucky to be born in modern times, where we have so much freedom. The women in medieval times were extremely suppressed and controlled. I feel bad for them.
True. But he also had valid and real reasons for wanting a son. That combined with never having heard the word “no” can keep people from developing any empathy.
@k.stacey7389 He didn't. English law recognised his legitimate daughter, Mary, as his legal heir before he went and annulled the marriage with her mother. He was obsessed with getting a male heir, but not because of any laws or legal requirements.
25:18 “shut up, or I’ll kill you like I did the last one” WOW and Henry supposedly loved Jane more than all the others?! Yikes 😬
I feel like Henry's unexpected accession to the heirship, combined with the piety inculcated in a child expected to go into the church, combined to create a truly monstrous ego. He had been taught that kings rule by divine right, and here he was, brought to the throne by the chance of his brother's death. Surely, God favored him. And from then on, any event in his life that disrupted that perfect chivalric pattern was a personal affront.
I absolutely love the Tudor period and the machinations and shenanigans that went on. I'm obsessed with Thomas Cromwell. That being said, could you please do a video about Eustace Chapuys. This guy must have a LOT to tell. Thank you for another wonderful Tudor fix video. Best wishes
Ah Chapuys, the rambling gossip historians around the world are thankful for 😂😂😂
Oh yes! He figured so prominently in the Tudor court for so long, he must be a solid fount of info about the goings on! 👏
I second that.
A video on Eustace Chapuys would be fascinating!
Totally agree on chapuy video
I once read an evocative description of ten year old Henry escorting Catherine to her wedding to Arthur and his burning jealousy that all the finery, the cloth of gold, the fuss, the adoring eyes, as well as the beautiful girl were for Arthur who he had always resented as the heir. Arthur was weak and sickly--delicate; whilst Henry knew he was strong, physically and mentally gifted. And yet it was Arthur who was his parents', and the nation's prize.
The description, although obviously fiction has stayed with me. To me, it fits the personality that emerged in the adult Henry.
I think in the teenage Henry's mind that image and desire stayed and festered. He fixated. His father vacillating about Henry n Catherine marrying frustrated Henry; even when his father seemed to be favouring the match he made difficulties about the dowry.
Henry also got to "heroically" rescue Catherine from poverty and privation whilst feeling that he was finally acting as *he* wished, not following his father's orders.
Maybe too it was a gesture to those who thought him too young to rule, and a sign to the rest of Christendom that England had a dynamic, fast acting king.
I do think Ann couldn't possibly have hoped to be queen in the beginning. Her "Your mistress i will not be; your wife i cannot be" is often interpreted as the first move in her game but looked at another way it was a bravely terse, "give him no encouragement" factual refusal.
Being the spoiled narcissist he was, I believe that he plowed through his wives and various mistresses purely because he could. I do believe that he started out as a romantic but through the years of no male heir, disappointments regarding his love life and State problems he became embittered and self pitying. His impulsive, cruel nature exacerbated by all the years of selfish striving for the prize (Ann) turned out to be another cruel blow to poor Henry.
I never understood why people read so much into the fact that Henry was buried next to Jane. She was his heir’s mother. Two of his wives were executed as traitors, one was shunned after divorce, and the other two outlived him.
Always seemed like an extremely obvious resting place to me.
True there were literally no other options as all his other wives were repudiated by him except for the one that survived him
This is a great comprehensive rundown of Henry's relationship history. I never heard of some of those women. But I think the topic could use a conclusion of discussing how Henry's behaviour would have been viewed at the time in the context of knowledge and belief.
I am sceptical towards those illegitimate children, especially sons. Before Edward was born, Henry would've felt that claiming sons would look good for his abilities (so to speak) and keeping track of potential backup heirs. Unless claiming them would injure his interest in other matters.
From the modern point of view, Hnery was a lothario, cheating on his wives while claiming to love them. However, it is my understanding that male abstinence was considered harmful to health (?) and relations during pregnancy were not advisable (?), so no one thought twice about Kings (especially) taking up mistresses when Queens were with child. Having mistresses was also a sign of virility as the example of the French shows us. And I doubt anyone would blame Henry for wanting a legitimate heir and looking for a wife able to provide him with one. There is a lot one of authority can justify by evoking the will or word of God. His not admiting to countless bastards probably did not hurt his image, as did providing for his mistresses by marrying them off if needed. By the standards of the day, I would think only some of his behaviour would raise an eyebrow or warrant a private judgement. Beheading his wives aside, I doubt he was promiscuous than many other Lords in his kingdom and abroad. Personally, with the hindsight and modern sensibilities, I think that all Henry's love was selfish and narcissistic, only welcome if it reflected well on him and was bendable to his will. I doubt he ever loved anyone, wife, mistresses, or daughter. Or even his son. His mother gained his affection in childhood, and she probably remained the only woman he ever loved.
Even modern British kings want an Heir and a Spare, and are prepared to use young women of noble birth to be brood mares while they carry on with their affair..The latest 'spare' has even written a book about it.
Nothing will ever change as long as there are a family of special, wealthy, entitled people in control and a strict caste system in the UK.
Very well said…was about to leave a similar message. Within his social group his behavior would have been admired, though I wonder what folks really thought about him once he was old. That head injury he incurred appears to have his personality, which I suspect made matters worse. He certainly did not gracefully accept old age.
Princess Mary was his legitimate heir according to English law.
I’ve always wished Anne’s letters back to Henry from their courtship survived. There must have been SO much fascinating information there. I think she didn’t really want to marry him, but was forced to by her awful family. Henry sounds like a malignant narcissist for whom NOTHING is ever his fault. He switched from prude to prurient on a dime, depending on his current wants.
I think he thought of himself as a romantic but the need for an heir, lust and ego were part of the picture too.
I think Anne of Cleves is a fantastic example of that. Henry loved the illusion of the romantic, but when she didn't play with him (for 100% reasonable reasons!!) his ego took over.
Henry was by all accounts a hottie in his prime. England didn’t lose its collective mind in joy over him taking his father’s place for no reason. It is kind of sad that he will never be remembered as anything but a fat grumpy old man. But, I suppose some could say that he deserves it. He wanted a legacy and to be remembered forever, careful what you wish for!
🔥🤱👑😢
I don’t think Henry was ever motivated by just one thing. Depending on what point of his life we are discussing, his motivations would change, but I think the answer was always multi pronged.
Hearing that Henry the 8th was so handsome when he was young, makes me think that it regrettable that photography and videography were not available at that time so that I could enjoy looking at him.
Of all the wives;
Catherine of Aragon had been lucky to have married him when he young and good looking. I pity Catherine Howard who merely 18 and had him when he was at his worst in every way.
Henry's maternal grandfather (Edward IV) has been memorably described as 'our most wench-ridden monarch until Charles II' and it has always seemed to me that Henry resembled his mother's side of the family more than the Tudor side. 😊 Although I reckon that whenever Henry strayed from the marital path he was quick to confess and get absolution for it, after all, his Grandmother, Margaret Beaufort had a reputation for piety and as a second son, Henry may have been intended for a career in the church. Poor Henry; his libido and his conscience must've been waging a constant battle. I pity the women his roving eye settled on. 💘🤴💔
The new Elizabethan finding video was the epitome of clarity , education and fun.
The 3 main reasons I subscribe to this channel.
So much good info on Henry VIII. Thanks Dr. Kat! Hearing the comment that a potential Queen said she only one head made me think that Henry was overly nice to Anne of Cleves when dissolving their marriage as an overreaction to that comment.
She had given him no reason to do anything else. Any adverse move against her would have made him look bad on the international stage You can kill your subjects, but not so easy to kill someone with powerful friends and family abroad. . He had excuses for his treatment of Katherine, Anne and Catherine, But Anne played the game perfectly and outmanoeuvred him at every turn. Simply by complying fully with all his demands. I think she must have ben even more glad to be rid of him than he was her.
Would you please do a video on Princess Sophia, daughter of George III and Charlotte (there are a lot of princesses named Sophia!)? I did some research and it’s very frustrating. I found that the authors would begin talking about Sophia and shortly thereafter change the focus to someone else. The neglect of Princess Sophia’s history begs for your attention. Thank you.
Definitely, I love the Georgian times
I think Henry really liked the idea of being a romantic chivalrous virtuous King. But uh, didn't exactly always achieve that.
I think he was overly indulged as a prince, eventhough he was a prince, and this was encouraged as a king. I think most of that encouragement came from the men wanting to get close to power. Most of the time, the women were also willing in this power game. I believe, some were not as willing. I wish Henry had been a braver man, but he wasn't. And he used that lack as an excuse to do what he did with his wives and even some lovers. 👶😭
19:42 oh oh my favorite part around this point, when Henry8 offers Anne to be his mistress, he says basically if she accepts him that he won’t have any other mistresses other than her. Some people call that romantic, but what it really means is that while he’s trying to love bomb Anne, he’s still been hooking up with other women!!! So much for being in love, eh Henry??? 😂😂😂😂
'And this time I mean it...'
I just love (and I say that with heavy sarcasm) how Henry was allowed to poke his scepter into anyone he wished with no consequence, but as always, the women were seen as less afterward. Anne Boleyn (possibly) seeing a "good enough" marriage after her "virtue" was taken away... Man, that whole thing just boils my blood!
Chapyus referring to Anne Boleyn as a ‘concubine’ in a period well after she had been crowned as queen leaves little to the imagination when it comes to his opinion of her!! Lol 😅
No one had ever said no to him. And total power corrupts totally. And how could any woman say no ? It will destroy not only herself but also her family
He was definitely randy, if not beyond, the old satyr. 🐐 I know kings often thought of most people as pawns, but this guy seems to've taken that a step further.
A goat seems the best emoji for him to me, satyrs being half goat🐐
Loved this episode, he was motived by 🏃 for sure. He wanted the spare in case something happened to Edward. I've 2 merch mug ideas "This is not a drinking game" & "I don't support that message" the latter would be very useful everyday in my environment 🙃.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Henry was more in love with the concept of love than the actual emotion and commitment. It was also written that Henry could be very prudish when it came to the shenanigans and dalliances of his court; that he kept his own activities on the low down because he didn't want anyone to know what went on with his own bedroom escapades.
I want to thank you for your channel. I've become very interested in history due to an interest in what people want you think about people like kings and realizing I know very little about my family and what life was like for them and particularly for women. My grandparents died young or when I was very young except for my grandmother who has never had any interest in a conversation with me. My other grandmother had an aneurismin her mid thrirties and was mistreated by her husband and had nearly 10 children. My mom knows very little about her as she is the youngest and was 5. I have no aunts. I have few stories, and many of my uncles have died due to a genetic disorder. My only objects she owned that I inherited were her bread pan and her cook book. My grandfather immediately married his mistress who mistreated my mother.
I love knowing more about what life was like for women in history. Things are well recorded as a result of the misogyny of the time and the treachery so I especially love learning of the Tudors! It's a good reminder of what misogyny has been suffered to remain and what we can do to make life better for everyone.
It is kind of interesting to me that the purpose in life used to so often be to have children (and hope you secured an agreeable husband) and my purpose is NOT to have children due to my genetic disorder. I still wish to get married. It makes you think about why we are here and who we even are to be put in my position. History sometimes is a peek behind that curtain. Like why suffer a mistress? My mother was not the sort. History taught me why.
Check Grandma's cookbook carefully, she may have saved notes, tips, etc!
I always felt that he was so mad about Jane Seymour simply because she didn't hang around long enough to get on his nerves if she had who knows he seems to spin on a dime with his wives
Henry was never lacking audacity. I just love how he complained about Anne of Cleves possibly not being a virgin, hypocrisy in and of itself, but Catherine Howard was able to hide her own past from him? It’s almost like you can’t tell someone’s sexual history just by looking at them!
His own blind desire fucked him up vs Cleves being practical & serious which didn't turn him on.
@@adriannespring8598 I don’t know about that. Granted it had been a long time between these marriages and he was a different man, but Catherine of Aragon was definitely a rather serious type. Jane Seymour as well. You can also argue that about Catherine Parr too, to a degree, although she was also a rebel in her own way. The only really “exciting” women he was with were Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard, and that and their downfalls is why they’ve earned their ill-deserved reputations. I personally believe he was really affected by the infamous first impression where she rebuffed him, not recognizing him when he came in disguise to surprise her. One could interpret that as her being “boring,” or you could also see it as her being rather naive and unprepared, and she had to learn quickly how to navigate her situation in a new place. And his varied taste in wives shows that he didn’t have one “type.” When a more serious one disappointed him, he ran for a more exciting one. When that tired him, he retreated to someone more serious again. It was less about their personality and more about how they appealed to him and *his* moods.
Your content is awesome! Huge fan!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤❤
His use of relationships changes throughout his life- at first it is for confirming his ability to produce heirs and then as he gets older it is for ego/emotional support. I don’t think he was in it for the sex- the beginning of his relationship with Catherine of Aragon is telling with all the fantasy and role play and that gives the impression that he was looking for this dynamic in his relationships. There was a lot of doubt of his own ability to produce an heir and in the first portion of his life he tried to prove to others and himself he could do it by creating (illegitimate) heirs in order to take the heat off. After his jousting injury, his pride/ego seems incredibly damaged and he’s hyper sensitive/ill in his relationship with Anne Boleyn (not to mention she didn’t produce any male heirs) so he lashes out. After that, it seems like he goes wherever he can feel supported and good about himself (Kathryn Howard) and lashes out when insecure (Ann of Cleves).
I'm absolutely over the moon that your website is now operational. I will definitely check it out after watching this video. I hope this TH-cam channel will continue on because your videos really perk up my Fridays and I so look forward to watching them (great way to start my weekend).
Thank you for another WONDERFUL recording! I am 61 and, only recently, have gotten into ancestry and found out about a LOT of gentry and royal ancestors. This, in turn, has given me a voracious interest in history! I can't begin to tell you how much I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE all your recordings!!! You are a BLESSING!!! BTW, Henry VIII was a narcissist. Period. ☺(I love your comment about recognizing his hypocrisy! 😂 )
When exploring your own historical genealogy be very suspicious, and insist on specifically genealogical citations and primary sources, not just the garden variety Chicago historical citations. Check sources with a critical eye. Lastly- don’t do it if you are bothered by MAJOR skeletons in the family closet.
There are many who will take your money and tell you lies to feed your ego. Most of us are related to nobodies, but those stories are valuable and fascinating.
Fridays are for fantastic videos with Dr.Kat ❤
Is it possible that one of Ann's motives for "wait and see" was Catherine's pregnancies, combined with her age? If she ever found herself daydreaming about a crown, surely the odds were better that with all the miscarriages, stillbirths etc Catherine would die of an infection. In fact it's rather extraordinary that she didn't, specially considering the possibility of incomplete miscarriages.
Love you video. Thanks too to Shakespeare who first inspired my love of Catherine of Valois. 👑🖌️📖
I can't recall if I'd read it in Alison Weir' book or heard it in Suzannah Lipscomb's documentary, but what it said is that it was highly unlikely that the Boleyns were enthusiastic about the possibility of Anne becoming Henry's mistress (or being romantically involved with him), because it negated her chances of marrying well.
It was the entertainment industry of the 20th century that created the narrative of plotting nobles pushing their daughters into the king's bed, and the Tudor court being a sort of a Playboy mansion with women falling over themselves to gain Henry's attention.
In reality, this was a feudal age with strict rules of hierarchy. The influence of religion on everyday life was strong and moral standards were different.
I believe the fact that we are still fascinated by Henry VIII shows that even our liberal, modern society finds his behaviour at least a little bit shocking and scandalous.
“I think this might be a long one…” THE TRUEST SENTENCE EVER UTTERED in a Henry8 biography, even one just looking at his sexcapades 😂😂😂😂
The Tudor tea was 🔥 reality show royale 😂
I thingk Henry was both, he wanted many different women, but didn’t want people to think he was promiscuous. He was quite prudish about coarse jokes, etc.
Excellent, as always. Thought provoking.
But these letters you cited, describing Henry, are exactly what I would write if I expected someone (in his court) to open and read my thoughts in order to report to him. Obsequious, almost irritatingly ingratiating, hmm?
The glowing ambassadorial descriptions of Henry VIII belie an important failing: A lack of emotional intelligence. Yes, he was well tutored in the courtly arts, languages, martial skills, etc. But a man brought up to understand his only worth is to produce a male heir, having had no succor of loving parenting ( not to be expected ) can’t really be expected to be generous with grace in any sense of the word. That, in my opinion is why it was so … not so much easy, but rational … in his very immature and spoiled brain to discard so many wives. He may have thought there was love, but truly I think he deluded himself in hope that his wife du jour would give him the longed-for male heir. I also think Dr. Kat’s explanation of why he was buried next to Jane Seymour jibes with my theory.
His declining health certainly effected his emotions ! Being King he was under a lot o9f pressure to produce an heir. The results are apparent and gruesome . Great discussion as always , Dr. Kat!❤
Great video as always - the story of Henry and his wives never gets old especially when well told, as this was. I'm off to visit the website!💔
Any and all Tudor stories welcome!!
It’s interesting that Henry claimed to be able to discern that Anne of Cleves was not a virgin, but he wasn’t able to tell that about Katherine Howard.
Interesting topic. I'm in the second camp, but open to changing my mind depending upon what Dr. Kat has to say.
I can only think of a handful of mistresses. Three? Maybe four. Far fewer than would have been acceptable for him.
I think he was a romantic, on top of the infamous quest for an heir.
I do believe he loved Katherine. He had his pick of wives at first, but he'd probably had a crush on his sister in law as a child. I don't think he'd have been with her for 24 years without genuine affection. All the others combined lasted less than the time he spent with Katherine & I kinda hope he went to his grave regretting what he did to her.
I also think he loved Anne. It was a tumultuous, too intense love at times. I still don't understand why he let the whispers get to him. I don't think it was about Anne not giving him a son, if he'd wanted, they had time to try again. I think her downfall was politically motivated but just don't see why Henry went along with it.
His great "true love", imo, just gave him what he wanted & died before there was time for things to go bad.
I think after losing his first three wives (& being responsible for each on different way) & his son in quick succession, along with a sharp decline in health after a couple bad jousting incidents, he was in a clinical depression, likely impotent (which may have been an issue earlier).
He'd have been dealing with guilt, grief, chronic pain and loss of self esteem due to weight gain & immobility limiting him from his favorite activities.
He didn't have a therapist. He knew he wasn't ready to marry, but he was pushed by others & predictably it didn't work. He never wanted the Cleves marriage.
I firmly believe that, had she not met his expectation of beauty, Holbein would have been among (or primary in) those he lashed out at. I think it was purely psychological & he was in a very dark headspace.
But he's certainly not going to be blamed for his inability to get it up. So, she becomes the mare of Flanders, humiliation across Europe likely being her reason for staying in England. She got a good deal out of it, comparatively, but was never able to marry or have her own children. I hope that's what she wanted, though it wasn't what she was raised expecting.
Then, he sets in on a beautiful, bubbly first cousin of his second wife. She's a teenager. His a disabled middle aged man.
I think she was light & happy and young enough to make him feel the same. I think his depression had lifted enough to feel again & she made him feel young and alive for the first time in years.
She should have been a mistress. My number one question to him about his wives is WHY marry Catherine? Because she made him feel young?
We saw with Bessie & FitzRoy that he didn't need legitimacy to acknowledge a royal son. I wonder what his mistresses thought.
I think it was related to his depression, maybe crediting her with his return to feeling himself.
But this was a girl who's whole life was known to people he had access to. She was English & he had connections to her family. He could (& someone SHOULD) have fully vetted her before marriage. I don't think he wanted to see the thorns.
I think he executed he for the exact reasons listed. She was factually guilty. But she was an f'ing child. Victimized at every turn until the day she died.
I don't even understand how her family would let it happen. Catherine was a first cousin to Anne & Mary Boleyn, sisters, and there's also their first cousin, Madge Shelton. There's rumor he was also with their half cousin Elizabeth Carew for a time (I am not aware of anything supporting the rumor).
Henry just tore through the girls of that family & they should have refused after Anne was killed.
I think he needed someone who would challenge him intellectually & personally. He liked smart, strong women. I'm not saying Catherine wasn't, and I think she's underestimated by history in general, but she was still so young, she hadn't figured out who she would be long term. She wasn't interested in a challenging philosophical debate or discussing political theory and strategy because she was a kid.
I don't doubt she'd have gotten there if given a chance. But she wasn't. She should have been a mistress.
Parr was his equal in many ways & I think after Catherine he realized he needed an adult woman who knew how to maneuver the court. She was an intelligent woman who published at least 3 books, all protestant in nature.
She even got herself out of an arrest warrant on the religious tightrope that was the Tudor court.
She was still young enough to be his granddaughter. She DID go on to have a child after Henry's death.
Because it was her third marriage I think people forget she was 30 years younger than Henry.
Marriages ;
Katherine of Aragon- 24 years
Anne Boleyn -3 years
Jane Seymour -1 year
Anna von Cleves- 6 months
Catherine Howard -1 1/2 years
Kateryn Parr-3 1/2 years
Mistresses Bessie Blount, Mary Boleyn & her first cousin Madge Shelton and possibly Jane Popincourt (& less likely, Elizabeth Carew) would have all been during his first marriage.
Anne Bassett was in Henry's usual pool of potential Mistresses as lady to Jane, Catherine Howard and Katherine Parr. I've seen her on lists of his mistresses but I'm not aware of any evidence.
So, there are three confirmed mistresses. That's really not a lot for a king on the era, especially over such a long time period.
You argue that the family shouldnt let him marry Catherine ( I guess you mean Catherine Howard). But: girls back then werent more than goods to be exchanged for political, dynastic or financial reasons. The aristocracy seldom married for love but for a lot of other reasons ( see above). And a girl married to the king meant a lot of financial and political gain as well as an excellent prospect for the men of the famuly.
I agree with this analysis. But I do think the Howards were fucking stupid for allowing the marriage to happen with Catherine’s past- it was going to get out, and didn’t they SEE what happened to Anne?? I think people were greedy and hoping she would become pregnant quickly and appease the king. No one was looking out for Catherine Howard at all. I also think Francis Durham was in over his head, why would he come to court knowing he had sex with the now queen??
Again- did no one see what happened to Anne Boleyn??
Another spectacular video!
or both? I'm guessing we will find out it's both 😅. Looking forward to it, as always!!!
Henry, to my mind, was a narcissist, whose narcissism grew as he got older. In his early years, he had the physical attributes and strength more suited to his view of himself, but as age, lifestyle and disease took hold, he was left with just his power and brutality. Like all narcissists, he had no real capacity for love or respect, and no moral compass. What he wanted was what God would have wanted. Behind this all, however, lay a brittle sense of self worth, easily undermined by perceived betrayals and slights, requiring brutal retribution to maintain his self-esteem. In his youth, he could play the chivalrous lover with ease. However, he would have seen his deteriorating body, seen and smelt his ulcerous leg, felt the pains that increasingly dogged his life. He would have needed to offset all this with the pursuit of trophy mistresses and wives, with humiliation of those around him in the court, and with increasing brutality. Pity the women around him, especially if cursed by beauty.
Fascinating, thank you.
Bravo! I find this such a fascinating examination of king Henry VIII His personality evolved with maturity and perhaps digressed after his jousting accident that sent him mentally spiraling toward incompetence. it seems his youthful confidence became longer periods of indifference, self doubt and paranoia leading to emotion responses becoming unpredictable. The feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness after The sudden death of Jane set him on a projection that permanently challenged his self image. His new lack of morality and mortality were on a collision course of self destruction A peaceful existence eluded him and his religious conflicts tortured his soul. Perhaps the entire Tudor legacy can me summed up in the adage, “Be mindful of what you ask for, as you shall surely get it.”
Can’t wait to hear Dr. Kat on this.
As far as I’m aware, there are only 8 women who Henry is confirmed to have slept with. Wives included. That’s a relatively low number by today’s standards but for a 16th century king?
Katherine, Anne, Jane, Catherine & Katherine.
Then Bessie, a Shelton sister (probably Madge) & Mary Boleyn.
I’m aware of speculation about a few others but I’d be surprised & interested if there’s any concrete evidence.
Sometimes it’s a pretty big stretch, but Anne Bassett seems plausible. Ok, prevideo comment done, time to watch Dr. Kat 🤍🌹
He was king for a long time, I think he had different motivations for what he did as he grew older but I think it was always about him. His wants and needs and some political pressure. Nothing is ever straightforward from the past, you can’t ask them what they were thinking and we can only speculate from what information we have. The victorious, idolizers and haters write the history and we usually only get what they want us to know. Both my father and my husband had strokes, both were affected with personality changes. My husband not as much as my dad but trauma will with mess people, it brought out the worst in my dad. I also think it matters how much the people around them let them get away with. I didn’t put up with nonsense from either of them. In the king’s case you also had to think “how will this affect/end my life” if I say anything he doesn’t like. Henry was in a lot of pain that could have been prevented with modern medicine. Constant pain along with a head injury didn’t do him any favors I think.
I don't know how succession works, but seems to me that a man who was so desperate for a son, would let even illegit sons go out of his life/influence with the exception of Fitzroy.
👑🤴Henry
👸 Catherine
👸 Anne B
👸 Jane S
👸 Anne of Cleves
👸 Katherine Howard
👸 Catherine Parr🫅Edward
My they all Rest In Peace🙏🏼✨
Henry was in love with being in love
24:11 a great time to remind everyone that MERCY should come in the form of a) a lighter sentence, b) hearing her defense against the accusations (Henry did not attend her trial or execution) c) letting them LIVE. Picking a swordsman over the usual axe to the neck is not an example of “mercy”.
Many of these women seem to have been under more than a slight pressure from the men of the families to enter into a relationship with this king. 👑
As always you have given another great historical account of GB.
Fascinating, spoiled King
I've always kindof wondered if Henry growing up the in care of his mother saw then love between his parents and always seeked to embody that with his love interests, I think he could have been a hopeless romantic who fell in love or at least he thought in love with the women very quickly and fell out of love with them just as quickly when they didn't live up to his imagined version of them.
well done video
😵💫 run ladies run
Thank you, Dr. Kat! You're amazing!
Thank you for this information
😵💫 I think he got full of himself. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all.
Video idea: I’d love to hear more about Prince Johnny, son of King George and Mary of Teck.
Great video thank you 😊
This was a great video! Thanks Dr Kat 😊❤
( 🪰🦂🤢🚽 it's difficult to find an Applicable emoji..) Anyway,... Henry's Motivation??.. He was a very Self-indulgent, Narcissistic, Lust-Driven guy.... Who, unfortunately, possessed the power to satiate his appetite without ANY regards to either self-control or concern for others. 😮Just my Opinion.
Great Video as Always! Thank You!
Great video! I think all that ever motivated Henry was his ego 🤺🏇🫅👶👰
If you want to see a funny depiction of Henry's and Anne of Cleves' wedding night, see the very old Charles Laughton film, The Private Life of Henry VII. They play cards and he owes her money. 😂
Brilliant video that really gives one plenty to ponder.
Thank you ma'am. For our king of the hour.
Wow, so many of these ladies I've never heard of... this was fascinating !
I believe he was a dreamer, and fell in love easily but reality came crashing down each time and it was the wives who suffered
Thank you for a wonderful video!! I was wondering if Henry’s obsession could have been a product of being a part of his father’s court. His mother died trying to have another baby. It may have seemed very important in his adolescent brain and transferred to adulthood. It didn’t help that he couldn’t seem to have a boy with a wife either.😢 I don’t think he was a prude. I think he was obsessed. And having access to the women of his wive’s court, didn’t help that obsession.
Thank you for sharing. Very interesting! 👑
As I understand it, there weren’t many women that Henry would have interacted with other than the Queen’s ladies. It’s not as if he would have met many women who weren’t the wives or daughters of his highest ranking noblemen or his family (I hadn’t known about his having an affair with his first cousin *shudder*)
Thank you for Another amazing video Dr. Kat.
Always A+
Really loved this video! Just the perfect kind of video for my interests, thank you for making and sharing it! 👑❤
I think Henry's attitude would have been: I can cat around all I want to, but my girlfriends/wives better be absolutely faithful to ME! Period. Love the video as always. Peace! 💗
Excellent as usual. I am really enjoying your videos and I love the questions you pose. It gives me food for thought. Keep up the good work ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Don't know if this will be seen but will try none the less, any chance you would consider doing a video on Lord Byron and/or the other Romantics? If not then thats fine, I appreciate your content nonetheless, my favourite is your video on John Wilmot, 2nd Earl Of Rochester, have watched and re-watched it at least over ten times!! Thank you for all the content you put out.
No idea who you’re talking about but now I have to watch the video on John Wilmot.
If you watched it over 10x’s, it must be good.😊
@@cplmpcocptcl6306 lol, enjoy, I've always been drawn to rascals of ill-repute.
Definitely a Randy Royal. Although probably only unusual among the ranks of European kings for marrying six times and not just having a string of mistresses and forcing himself on any servant he wanted..
I am in the camp that he was a narcissistic man-child.
Looking forward to seeing your website ❤❤❤
Oooooh. Very creative intro.👍
I love this time period! Thank you Dr Kat
I have to say, in my experience men can be both prudes and lotharios! It is not an either or situation.
In his youth, he was definitely a randy royal. He was young, hot af, a renaissance educated monarch, and it was accepted. I've always wondered if he and Catherine of Aragon had rh factor incompatibility and that's why she had such a difficult time carrying a child to term. After his accident, he changed. While he may have always had jealous, tyrannical, and cruel tendencies, the aftermath of his accident brought those to the forefront.
Oh so good!!!
Anne of Cleaves has the most beautiful face by the portraits.❤ As for Henry, I think he was led by his lust for a son which meant power 🧑🏻🦰
Love Tudor history! 🏰❤
I really enjoy every one of your videos, but this was one I was really looking forward to!