I think Urquhart had mixed feelings of the operation as well. Urquhart and Sosabowski got along fairly well and respected each other from what I understand.
And Browning - inaccurately portrayed in the movie. He objected to Monty about the last bridge. And unlike most of these 'expert' posts i have met Browning, Horrocks and Frost in the 80s at an airborne premiere of BTF.
I know, When I watched this with my son he asked me what it meant when the German commander put that marker down. I told him that Von Rundstedt had just moved 2 SS tank divisions to Arnhem. My son looked at me and said, "that might mess up this operation". I just smiled and said "you think"?
I think Patton had more respect for Model than he did for Montgomery. And i think he and Eisenhower fell out big time over his views on Montgomery and Operation Market Garden.
Hackman and Connery were too young to fight both born 1930 O'Neil was born around that time 1940's btw general Gavin was only 36 when he commanded the 82nd so that is why he was cast and Paul Maxwell who plays Taylor served in the Royal Canadian Artillery during the War
You didn’t see him, but his presence was keenly felt, the composer of the memorable score, John Addison, in 1944 was a tank officer in the 23rd Hussars, he was part of XXX Corps under Brian Horrocks.
@@Reprodestruxion actually, the delay from the capture of Antwerp on September 4th until the launching of Market-Garden on the 17th was too much. There was a huge gap in the German lines that could have been easily exploited with aggressive action, but that was not Monty's way of doing things. The delay allowed Von Rundstedt to plug that gap with not only Bittrich's corps, but Fifteenth Army and other forces organized from the rabble retreating through Holland. When the meeting in this clip took place, it was already too late for Monty's plan.
Different armies had (and still have) different etiquettes. For example, British soldiers were appalled at the American habit of giving and receiving salutes whilst bare-headed.
They portray Von Rundstedt acting as if he placed great weight on Model's opinions when actually Von Rundstedt considered Model a Hitler lackey and even stated that Model's abilities "would have made him a great battalion sergeant major." An exasperated Von Rundstedt confessed to an aide that "I can't even change my HQ guards without getting permission first." Truly the last Prussian.
Von Rundstedt, with Manstein and Guderian, were probably the best German generals of the war. Although, the German general staff was probably the best in the entire war. Even Model was quite good.
Just read another account where that statement by Rundstedt was said about Dietrich. Considering Model was in the upper tier of the German generals, I think it's more likely Dietrich was the real target of that sentence. Besides, if Model was just sergeant major material, barring Manstein Germany wouldn't have had any officer.
he wanted him to agree so there were no calls to hitler about it. I'm sure at this point even the hitler youth were starting to realize they needed competent men in the field to make decisions not the drug addicts back in Berlin.
@@emielregis5809 Von Rundstedt said that about several, even Rommel. He was pointing out how Hitler had raised and promoted several field marshals purely on fanatic loyalty and not ability after sacking several very capable generals just to tighten his grip on the high command. Hitler always resented the older noble born officers that he felt didn't have a place in his vision of a 'new' Germany.
I remember watching this with my son. When the German officer set the marker on Arnhem he asked what the german had done. When i told him he just moved 2nd SS panzer corp there. He looked at me and said, "That might screw up the operation".
Quite so! TOO often, i have seen fingers pointed at the brave men BOTH British and American who bled in vain due to a BADLY planned operation. Montgomery and the Intel chiefs were responsible for this debacle.
Runstead places a marker at Arnhem showing 2nd SS Panzer Division. That's not true. It was the 2nd SS Panzer Corps, consisting of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer divisions, a very different situation.
Montgomery was the most overrated commander in World War II. There are much better generals on both sides from World War II, be they Allied, German, or Soviet.
Market Garden was Montgomery’s attempt to save face and to snatch some glory from Patton’s fantastic breakout at St lo,and his rapid advance across southern France….Montgomery had ran afoul with much of SHAEF for his failure around Caan and his apparent foot dragging during the fallase
Actually you are wrong.It was originally Montgomery's plan as part of his single Northern thrust idea granted,but he eventually realised the high risk level particularly of the Garden element and backed down,but it was at Eisenhower's insistance that the operation went ahead
After Cobra it took Patton's 3rd Army two weeks to advance 60 miles, After El Alamein the 8th Army advanced 780 miles in twenty days. After the Normandy breakout Montgomerys 21st Army managed an advance of 250 miles in 4 days. To get a better feel of the distance, the distance between Warsaw and Moscow is only 714 miles.
Rubbish, the Brits certainly had issues but they faced with the Canadians the bulk of German resistance which was deliberate and facilitated the US breakout which he had a hand in planning. Please please don’t base your historical knowledge on Hollywood.
One of the key bits they don't show in the Movie is Sepp Krafts 16th SS depot battalion, made up of German 16-17 year old teenagers, Stopping the British Airborne on their way to Arnhem, I guess it wouldn't go well with the British movie going Public seeing the mighty British Paras stopped by German teenagers..!!
The Germans were scraping the barrel but child soldiers can be lethal. In the film, during the US assault on the Nijmegen bridge, one of the Germans defending it is briefly shown close-up and looks like he is about 13.
British were shedding an empire, and America was building theirs in their own way. They grew tired of being treated as amateurs by the British commanders. Saluting inappropriately, "loot-ten-ants," not "left-ten-ants. Unforgivable❤️
Not a good performance by him, nor a very well written character. Apart from the river crossing scene, a lot of Hackman's lines are vague, tacked-on philosophical pronouncements - as if Sosabowski were some kind of constipated yogi.
Hollywood never misses an opportunity to demean Montgomery even though the German Generals had the utmost respect for him and it would have been unlikely they would have made such a derisory comment,particulalry as he'd just driven their Armies half way across Europe in the space 3 months,something that Patten hadnt
you must be a limey. Montgomery was not highly respected by the German High Command. Patton outperformed Montgomery everywhere the 2 of them went. Montgomery was weak, indecisive, over cautious, and slow.
@@alskjlskaj J2 has this fantasy world that he really loves. By the way, St lO was fought over from 7-19 July 1944. Before Operation Cobra and before Patton and 3rd army became operational. Tells you all you need to know about J2 and his 'fact'
@@dorothyburry42 Outperformed? Between Monty and Patton... Monty commanded more men, was concerned with bigger issues, and achieved greater successes. Normandy was Monty's success, and the Allied armies attained the areas that Monty had made as objectives for the campaign 3 days sooner than had originally been intended. Patton, by contrast, never commanded anything more than an army and was much of a tactical commander. His greatest success is the rush from Normandy to Metz and the 90 degree wheel in the Bulge... but the former was against a German army that had already been beaten by the slogging match in the Normandy campaign and the later was against the flank of a German attack that was beginning to run out of fuel and manpower. At Metz, where Patton faced a dug in and determined enemy... Patton was stopped dead by French and German made fortifications, some of which going all the way back to the 1800s.
@@bigwoody4704 Well dude that is very common You expect high high level commanders like Monty to lead the troops from the front in a tank ? No they come up with tactics and logistics that’s their job ‘’He had 4 years to cross the channel’’ what do you mean by that ?
No, 30 corps were moving at top speed, but got slowed down 48 hours when the 101 failed to take the son bridge and another 48 hours at Nijmegen again the 82 failed to take by that time it was to late nobody could've done it .
@@rupertsmith5815 *The lack of initiative/tactics by ground force British commanders - Dempsey/Horrocks/Vandeleur sitting on their arses in their tanks until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at **2:35** in the afternoon - did they think they would catch up? Stopping at 6:00 pm when it was dark by **7:30** (5 hours later) on the 1st day? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown* Instead of limping into Valkenswaard 7 MILES from the start. Why didn't they leave at 1st light - like every other army that ever marched? Even the Irish Guards said the column stopped for 18 hrs for no reason. The Germans accused them of drinking too much tea
This is an inaccurate portrayal of von Rundstedt ( a thin, bony-faced, and austere individual) and this actor put in an almost identical performance (also full of 'swagger') as FM von Kesselring in the movie "Anzio". Nor is their any evidence that he used the contemptuous words about Montgomery that were put into his mouth. What is certain is that he said that Patton was 'their best', but this was said to his American captors. Prior to that he was a British P.O.W. and told them that Montgomery was 'their best'! [He respected the British and was extremely grateful to them for the way he, and his men, were courteously treated whilst in captivity] Major-General Roy Urquhart (Sean Connery in the movie) described this film as 'a travesty'. What amazes me is that it was a Royal Command Performance and the Queen (C-in-C of the armed forces) had to sit through and listen to the stream of anti-British derogatory comments about her forces; at one stage being referred to as 'schmucks'. Sitting beside her was the Duke of Edinburgh (ex RN WW2) who must have felt like walking out. The late Sir Richard Attenborough was its director, and he certainly did well by his American paymasters. (UK)
There were inaccuracies,but Monty was indeed a putz.He was not only self promoting but a contemptuous braggart who could not think spontaneously and was both curt and insubordinate to Eisenhower.Who okayed this very bad plan to just get him moving.IKE never made that mistake again
I already left proof on the Monty Board who blasted Mantueffel,he had know idea Monty was no where near the front and I've already left proof he wanted to withraw you revisionist ass hole.The US Army Gave Monty the 1st and 9th US Armies and still sat on his ass
*From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 4"When Eisenhower strayed from his Broad Front Advance and gave Montgomery permission to launch Market-Garden,he made his worst decision of the war* .Market Garden was a bad idea because it took the focus off of Antwerp - and Antwerp mattered the most.Without the necessary supplies,the Allies had no chance of sustaining a victorious push into Germany. In essence Market Garden was based on Hope.Hope that Nazi-Germany was just about finished,hope that the weather would hold,hope that all bridges would be captured intact,hope that all the equipment would work properly.Hope that most of the German opposition would be over-aged invalids
*Page 430 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb* Monty explained he expected British Officers to support him in his arguments with "the Yanks".One british officer protested "true we were anti-monty at SHAEF but he created the situation .No one could get at him....we were appalled by his actions.He used everyone he could against someone else."
*Page 239 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb* For Montgomery the Sicily Campaign had been a letdown.Instead of the easy triumph he had forecast his proud 8th Army had bogged down and had been obliged to leave the main prize in the campaign to the American generals whose abilities he previously had disdained.He blamed the haphazard was the conquest of Sicily ha been planned and executed ignoring the roll he played in both
Correction to my comment. Second sentence: not 'their' but 'there': 'Nor is there any evidence...' More haste, less grammatical accuracy, although it should be second nature really. Old age, I think.
In January 1944, the corps was ordered to the Alençon area of France[1] to refit, before being sent back to the Eastern Front in April, where it took part in the efforts to relieve the encircled 1st Panzer Army in eastern Galicia. In June 1944, the corps was ordered west to take part in the Battle of Normandy. It was involved in heavy fighting against the British 21st Army Group in the Battle of Caen. During this period, SS-Obergruppenführer Wilhelm Bittrich was placed in command of the corps. In August 1944, the corps participated in the battles in and around the Falaise Pocket. The corps then retreated across France. On 17 September 1944, the Allies launched Operation Market Garden, an airborne offensive aimed at capturing the Rhine bridge at Arnhem. The corps was involved in fighting against the British 1st Airborne Division in the Battle of Arnhem
Even under strength they had between the two divisions: two tank regiments, 4 infantry battalions (two mechanised) and integrated artillery. The Parad didn't stand a cat in hell's chance to be honest
No, Bittrich's men had been in Normandy and had been fighting almost constantly since D-Day. Hence why von Rundstedt and Model decided to move them somewhere behind the lines so they could have a little R&R and be battle-ready to face what they anticipated would be a coming assault by Patton. By sheer fateful coincidence, von Rundstedt picked Arnhem as their rest stop, leaving Bittrich's forces ideally placed to thwart Operation Market-Garden.
Actualy, Arnhem failed because they had a landingzone 32 kilomteres away from the bridge. Second of all, Prince Bernhart knew there was a SS PanzerDivision near Arnhem. If they listend to him, they might could have gotten Arnhembridge!
'32 kilomteres away from the bridge' It was actually just under 14 kilomteres. Prince Bernhard was aformer SS man who was trusted by neither British or US intelligence. Only his royal connections kept him out of prison in the 1970s.
The Dutch underground had been heavily infiltrated by the Germans by1944. So it was understandable the Allies feared misinformation coming from them. Although once photo recon confirmed German armor around Arnhem it should have been a giant red flag.
Why do people always ignore the fact that Market Garden was a strategic success? Due to the operation, Holland was liberated in weeks and the Germans pushed to the Rhine. Yes, they failed to take Arnhem and push into Germany but they closed down Holland.
Market Garden was in sep 1944 and the most densely populated area of Holland (de randstad) remained occupied and the front that splitted east- and west Holland caused a famine. The major cities remained occupied until the surrender of Germany.
@@deanhibler3117 I've read 50 books on the ETO and the Med - quite frankly IKE didn't have any balls. Monty only won when he couldn't lose, MacArthur as big as an ego or even Marshall would have set things straight. Repeatedly bernard not only didn't meet expectations but then lied about it. At both CAEN and Monty Garden. The British had so many better commanders but Churchill interferred with their operations that led to failures,he forgot his debacle at Gallipoli. He stuck with this mistake Monty rather than dare admit he made one
‘’I not only approved Market-Garden, I insisted upon it. We needed a bridgehead over the Rhine. If that could be accomplished I was quite willing to wait on all other operations.” -Eisenhower He thought it was a good plan and when asked about it he said if there was just a 1% chance of it working we had to take it . And it wasn’t a complete disaster the allies gained 60 miles or ground, liberated 17% of the Netherlands . Inflicted casualties the Germans couldn’t afford, secured Antwerp and used Nijmegen as a spring board for the invasion of Germany in 1945 .
@@rupertsmith5815 Eisenhower pandered to Montgomery at ever turn. He knew Montgomery was less than a mediocre Genera, compared to Patton, but did not want to anger the British dope.
@@rupertsmith5815 here the english(monty's plan) never listen to the dutch resistance and it was a mess-radios where out of order-lack of ammunitions-bad organisation-if patton where there it was another history-patton also critizised the jews after the war and he was assassinated !!!!!!
@@gouvyrock Again your over glorifying him acting like he could do no wrong but he did he made repeated mistakes and your ignoring the main reason it failed was the Americans failing to take son and Nijmegen bridge even if he was in command those would’ve still happened. And stop with antisemitic talking point that all Jews are evil alright if he was assassinated it would be because of the Soviets. And he wanted the war to continue because he loved war which would’ve killed millions more
@@rupertsmith5815 made some research about who want the second world war-it was not germany-and stop this antisemitic crap-you can critizised everybody but not jews -strange no!! the federal reserve -the banks-the medias-politics-the aipac run by who ? you make me laugh !!!!!!
@@dorothyburry42 They claim he was prejudiced against Blacks yet kept a black orderly for his entire time in the War; and Sgt Meeks was put in the Generals Funeral parade in place of Bedell Smith whom Patton hated. Patton also called a black tank destroyer battalion the best tank killers he ever saw Supposedly anti semetic but had Jewis staff officers And so on. The Germans respected Patton above all other allied senior generals.
@@dorothyburry42 Well he was against D-day, he did terribly at Metz and got a battalion whipped out in the last few months of the war trying to take glory away from the British. And he loved war and tried to keep it going after Germany surrendered and was extremely anti Semitic and called soldiers with ptsd cowards
@@johnhallett5846 Having Jewish stay officers doesn't mean you're not antisemitic I mean even hitler had a man of jewish heritage as his driver, and the way he spoke about the soviets he often insulted them for it's jewish origins and in his diaries he frequently insulted them.
no, the British use miles and the rest of Europe use kilometres. I know this because I am British so don't bother arguing. NB Gibraltar is a British colony and they also use miles, I believe that this is also true of Malta but I cannot be certain.
The the guy running the site,LMAO pretty much everthing you post.You don't read,know or were taught history. Monty Garden should never have been considered or launched
@@bigwoody4704 What do you mean the guy running the site ? What are you on about And yeah it was a bad plan no one is denying what are you on about? And you didn’t answer the other questions
Oh wow! That scene transition with the map, from the Allied to German HQs, is a brilliant piece of film editing!
😯
"No plan survives initial contact with the enemy."
I see you've read your Clauswitz.
@@richardm3023 That quote was from Helmuth von Moltke
General Browning very arrogant and condescending towards sosabowski. He forgot his polish division was even a part of the plan
Brigade.
After the war he was treated very poorly
@@billc3779 brits basically made him the scapegoat for Montys idiotic plan and intelligence failures
2:07 - Kind of revealing that Sosabowski is addressed as an afterthought, like Browning has only just remembered he is there.
I accept your apology.
The polish general sosabowski ,the only person really to think the plan was not gonna work
I think Urquhart had mixed feelings of the operation as well. Urquhart and Sosabowski got along fairly well and respected each other from what I understand.
And Browning - inaccurately portrayed in the movie. He objected to Monty about the last bridge. And unlike most of these 'expert' posts i have met Browning, Horrocks and Frost in the 80s at an airborne premiere of BTF.
'Surrender!! We haven't got the capacity to take you all prisoner. Was there anything else?'
No problem, after the battle we can give you chocolate. It is good, it is english chocolate, your airplanes give it to us...
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". . . once we take the bridge . . " To quote Maxwell Smart, "Not So Fast...".
TAKE AND HOLD the bridge.
when i see von rundstedt forcefully lay down that black marker on arnhem, i was thinking "oh the british are so fcked"
I know, When I watched this with my son he asked me what it meant when the German commander put that marker down. I told him that Von Rundstedt had just moved 2 SS tank divisions to Arnhem. My son looked at me and said, "that might mess up this operation". I just smiled and said "you think"?
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I think Patton had more respect for Model than he did for Montgomery.
And i think he and Eisenhower fell out big time over his views on Montgomery and Operation Market Garden.
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Of all the actors who starred in this pic, Boargde was the only one who actually fought there.
Hackman and Connery were too young to fight both born 1930
O'Neil was born around that time 1940's btw general Gavin was only 36 when he commanded the 82nd so that is why he was cast
and Paul Maxwell who plays Taylor served in the Royal Canadian Artillery during the War
You didn’t see him, but his presence was keenly felt, the composer of the memorable score, John Addison, in 1944 was a tank officer in the 23rd Hussars, he was part of XXX Corps under Brian Horrocks.
@@Lupinthe3rd. Gavin was 38 yrs old at the time of market garden.
Gavin was badass.. he would routinely jump with his soldiers...the guys loved him
Yeah they were on the run. But you underestimated the enemy and that cost you dearly
The time shedjewel , was too rushed
@@Reprodestruxion actually, the delay from the capture of Antwerp on September 4th until the launching of Market-Garden on the 17th was too much. There was a huge gap in the German lines that could have been easily exploited with aggressive action, but that was not Monty's way of doing things. The delay allowed Von Rundstedt to plug that gap with not only Bittrich's corps, but Fifteenth Army and other forces organized from the rabble retreating through Holland. When the meeting in this clip took place, it was already too late for Monty's plan.
Different armies had (and still have) different etiquettes. For example, British soldiers were appalled at the American habit of giving and receiving salutes whilst bare-headed.
So are US sailors and Marines.
They portray Von Rundstedt acting as if he placed great weight on Model's opinions when actually Von Rundstedt considered Model a Hitler lackey and even stated that Model's abilities "would have made him a great battalion sergeant major." An exasperated Von Rundstedt confessed to an aide that "I can't even change my HQ guards without getting permission first." Truly the last Prussian.
Von Rundstedt, with Manstein and Guderian, were probably the best German generals of the war. Although, the German general staff was probably the best in the entire war. Even Model was quite good.
Just read another account where that statement by Rundstedt was said about Dietrich. Considering Model was in the upper tier of the German generals, I think it's more likely Dietrich was the real target of that sentence. Besides, if Model was just sergeant major material, barring Manstein Germany wouldn't have had any officer.
Model whipped Americans in the hurtgen forest
he wanted him to agree so there were no calls to hitler about it. I'm sure at this point even the hitler youth were starting to realize they needed competent men in the field to make decisions not the drug addicts back in Berlin.
@@emielregis5809 Von Rundstedt said that about several, even Rommel. He was pointing out how Hitler had raised and promoted several field marshals purely on fanatic loyalty and not ability after sacking several very capable generals just to tighten his grip on the high command. Hitler always resented the older noble born officers that he felt didn't have a place in his vision of a 'new' Germany.
Greatest war movie ever!
Richard Attenborough directed the greatest war movie ever, spared no expense.
I remember watching this with my son. When the German officer set the marker on Arnhem he asked what the german had done. When i told him he just moved 2nd SS panzer corp there. He looked at me and said, "That might screw up the operation".
field.marshal Montgo Mery. I always loved that line.
....I would prefer Montgomery,but Eisenhower isn't that stupid.....
Top self, essence war movie, one of the best!
Richard Attenborough made this one of the best, spared no expense.
gene hackman and sean connery in the same scene talk about heavy
Basically the problem was a mixture of politics and ignoring their intelligence officers, all mixtures for utter disaster.
Quite so! TOO often, i have seen fingers pointed at the brave men BOTH British and American who bled in vain due to a BADLY planned operation. Montgomery and the Intel chiefs were responsible for this debacle.
@@agentmulder1019
Eisenhower was ultimately responsible.
@@thevillaaston7811
FDR was ultimate responsible.
@@thevillaaston7811
Wait, the American voters are ultimately responsible...
Kinda like Afghanistan 2021.
Runstead places a marker at Arnhem showing 2nd SS Panzer Division. That's not true. It was the 2nd SS Panzer Corps, consisting of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer divisions, a very different situation.
Rundstedt, but yes you’re correct.
@gamesbok He actually heard General Browning say the phrase "a bridge too far" in the same office.
Montgomery and Browning were a bigger hindrance to the allied war effort than the Germans.
Montgomery was the most overrated commander in World War II. There are much better generals on both sides from World War II, be they Allied, German, or Soviet.
@@oilersridersbluejays he did great in El Alamein but operation marketgarden was too rushed
@@oilersridersbluejays Patton, Zhukov and Rommel are just as overrated
Absolutely. The beet generals in WWII were Manstein, von Rundstedt, Eisenhower, among others.
@@oilersridersbluejays Eisenhower got appointed because of politics not generalship
Wonder if they had 6-8 weeks to plan and organize better if it would have worked. They should have had alternate targets as well.
Market Garden was Montgomery’s attempt to save face and to snatch some glory from Patton’s fantastic breakout at St lo,and his rapid advance across southern France….Montgomery had ran afoul with much of SHAEF for his failure around Caan and his apparent foot dragging during the fallase
Actually you are wrong.It was originally Montgomery's plan as part of his single Northern thrust idea granted,but he eventually realised the high risk level particularly of the Garden element and backed down,but it was at Eisenhower's insistance that the operation went ahead
After Cobra it took Patton's 3rd Army two weeks to advance 60 miles, After El Alamein the 8th Army advanced 780 miles in twenty days. After the Normandy breakout Montgomerys 21st Army managed an advance of 250 miles in 4 days. To get a better feel of the distance, the distance between Warsaw and Moscow is only 714 miles.
totally inaccurate and the usual hollywood answer.
Rubbish, the Brits certainly had issues but they faced with the Canadians the bulk of German resistance which was deliberate and facilitated the US breakout which he had a hand in planning. Please please don’t base your historical knowledge on Hollywood.
@@alskjlskaj wow, you really need professional help
One of the key bits they don't show in the Movie is Sepp Krafts 16th SS depot battalion, made up of German 16-17 year old teenagers, Stopping the British Airborne on their way to Arnhem, I guess it wouldn't go well with the British movie going Public seeing the mighty British Paras stopped by German teenagers..!!
The Germans were scraping the barrel but child soldiers can be lethal.
In the film, during the US assault on the Nijmegen bridge, one of the Germans defending it is briefly shown close-up and looks like he is about 13.
British were shedding an empire, and America was building theirs in their own way. They grew tired of being treated as amateurs by the British commanders. Saluting inappropriately, "loot-ten-ants," not "left-ten-ants. Unforgivable❤️
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As a military courtesy, shouldn't Model have removed his cap in the presence of the senior Field Marshal Rundstedt???!!!
taclas1 was rundsteadt wearing his Colonels uniform...???
Lemonhead209 Ofc!
@@Lemonhead209rundstedt was an honorary colonel of an infantry regiment and chose to wear a colonel’s parade quality collar patches to show that
2nd SS pz CORPS , not division..........jeez
Yep. 9th and 10th SS divisions.
It's all a question of bridges. 👍. .and the fog. 😢
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IMHO the best war film ever made, although it isn't Gene Hackman's finest hour.
Still better than Kevin Costner trying to speak with an English Accent.
Not a good performance by him, nor a very well written character. Apart from the river crossing scene, a lot of Hackman's lines are vague, tacked-on philosophical pronouncements - as if Sosabowski were some kind of constipated yogi.
Hollywood never misses an opportunity to demean Montgomery even though the German Generals had the utmost respect for him and it would have been unlikely they would have made such a derisory comment,particulalry as he'd just driven their Armies half way across Europe in the space 3 months,something that Patten hadnt
you must be a limey. Montgomery was not highly respected by the German High Command. Patton outperformed Montgomery everywhere the 2 of them went. Montgomery was weak, indecisive, over cautious, and slow.
@@alskjlskaj J2 has this fantasy world that he really loves. By the way, St lO was fought over from 7-19 July 1944. Before Operation Cobra and before Patton and 3rd army became operational. Tells you all you need to know about J2 and his 'fact'
@@dorothyburry42 Outperformed? Between Monty and Patton...
Monty commanded more men, was concerned with bigger issues, and achieved greater successes. Normandy was Monty's success, and the Allied armies attained the areas that Monty had made as objectives for the campaign 3 days sooner than had originally been intended.
Patton, by contrast, never commanded anything more than an army and was much of a tactical commander. His greatest success is the rush from Normandy to Metz and the 90 degree wheel in the Bulge... but the former was against a German army that had already been beaten by the slogging match in the Normandy campaign and the later was against the flank of a German attack that was beginning to run out of fuel and manpower. At Metz, where Patton faced a dug in and determined enemy... Patton was stopped dead by French and German made fortifications, some of which going all the way back to the 1800s.
he was a shit commander Hollywood wasn't at Arnhem neither was the coward MONTY. Had 4 yrs to cross a channel why did he wait for the GIs
@@bigwoody4704 Well dude that is very common
You expect high high level commanders like Monty to lead the troops from the front in a tank ?
No they come up with tactics and logistics that’s their job
‘’He had 4 years to cross the channel’’ what do you mean by that ?
Was there any way the plan could have worked?
You already said this. We know this. We do not need to be telling us a time secondary. Now go from my site and never to returning!
If Patton commanded the ground element it might have succeeded.
nope
@@alskjlskaj your fantasy world must be very interesting
No, 30 corps were moving at top speed, but got slowed down 48 hours when the 101 failed to take the son bridge and another 48 hours at Nijmegen again the 82 failed to take by that time it was to late nobody could've done it .
Patton was a frightening man and a leader from a 1000 years ago. A man not to be messed with.. from an Englishman.. but he was to hot headed for ww2
@@rupertsmith5815 *The lack of initiative/tactics by ground force British commanders - Dempsey/Horrocks/Vandeleur sitting on their arses in their tanks until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at **2:35** in the afternoon - did they think they would catch up? Stopping at 6:00 pm when it was dark by **7:30** (5 hours later) on the 1st day? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown*
Instead of limping into Valkenswaard 7 MILES from the start. Why didn't they leave at 1st light - like every other army that ever marched? Even the Irish Guards said the column stopped for 18 hrs for no reason. The Germans accused them of drinking too much tea
This is an inaccurate portrayal of von Rundstedt ( a thin, bony-faced, and austere individual) and this actor put in an almost identical performance (also full of 'swagger') as FM von Kesselring in the movie "Anzio". Nor is their any evidence that he used the contemptuous words about Montgomery that were put into his mouth. What is certain is that he said that Patton was 'their best', but this was said to his American captors. Prior to that he was a British P.O.W. and told them that Montgomery was 'their best'! [He respected the British and was extremely grateful to them for the way he, and his men, were courteously treated whilst in captivity] Major-General Roy Urquhart (Sean Connery in the movie) described this film as 'a travesty'. What amazes me is that it was a Royal Command Performance and the Queen (C-in-C of the armed forces) had to sit through and listen to the stream of anti-British derogatory comments about her forces; at one stage being referred to as 'schmucks'. Sitting beside her was the Duke of Edinburgh (ex RN WW2) who must have felt like walking out. The late Sir Richard Attenborough was its director, and he certainly did well by his American paymasters. (UK)
There were inaccuracies,but Monty was indeed a putz.He was not only self promoting but a contemptuous braggart who could not think spontaneously and was both curt and insubordinate to Eisenhower.Who okayed this very bad plan to just get him moving.IKE never made that mistake again
I already left proof on the Monty Board who blasted Mantueffel,he had know idea Monty was no where near the front and I've already left proof he wanted to withraw you revisionist ass hole.The US Army Gave Monty the 1st and 9th US Armies and still sat on his ass
*From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 4"When Eisenhower strayed from his Broad Front Advance and gave Montgomery permission to launch Market-Garden,he made his worst decision of the war* .Market Garden was a bad idea because it took the focus off of Antwerp - and Antwerp mattered the most.Without the necessary supplies,the Allies had no chance of sustaining a victorious push into Germany. In essence Market Garden was based on Hope.Hope that Nazi-Germany was just about finished,hope that the weather would hold,hope that all bridges would be captured intact,hope that all the equipment would work properly.Hope that most of the German opposition would be over-aged invalids
*Page 430 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb* Monty explained he expected British Officers to support him in his arguments with "the Yanks".One british officer protested "true we were anti-monty at SHAEF but he created the situation .No one could get at him....we were appalled by his actions.He used everyone he could against someone else."
*Page 239 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb* For Montgomery the Sicily Campaign had been a letdown.Instead of the easy triumph he had forecast his proud 8th Army had bogged down and had been obliged to leave the main prize in the campaign to the American generals whose abilities he previously had disdained.He blamed the haphazard was the conquest of Sicily ha been planned and executed ignoring the roll he played in both
Correction to my comment. Second sentence: not 'their' but 'there': 'Nor is there any evidence...' More haste, less grammatical accuracy, although it should be second nature really. Old age, I think.
Wasn't Bittrichs' Division rebuilding from its time on the eastern front?
The II. SS Pz Corps had two divisions: The 9.SS and 10th SS Tankdivision, They fought in the west
In January 1944, the corps was ordered to the Alençon area of France[1] to refit, before being sent back to the Eastern Front in April, where it took part in the efforts to relieve the encircled 1st Panzer Army in eastern Galicia.
In June 1944, the corps was ordered west to take part in the Battle of Normandy. It was involved in heavy fighting against the British 21st Army Group in the Battle of Caen. During this period, SS-Obergruppenführer Wilhelm Bittrich was placed in command of the corps. In August 1944, the corps participated in the battles in and around the Falaise Pocket. The corps then retreated across France. On 17 September 1944, the Allies launched Operation Market Garden, an airborne offensive aimed at capturing the Rhine bridge at Arnhem. The corps was involved in fighting against the British 1st Airborne Division in the Battle of Arnhem
Even under strength they had between the two divisions: two tank regiments, 4 infantry battalions (two mechanised) and integrated artillery. The Parad didn't stand a cat in hell's chance to be honest
No, Bittrich's men had been in Normandy and had been fighting almost constantly since D-Day. Hence why von Rundstedt and Model decided to move them somewhere behind the lines so they could have a little R&R and be battle-ready to face what they anticipated would be a coming assault by Patton. By sheer fateful coincidence, von Rundstedt picked Arnhem as their rest stop, leaving Bittrich's forces ideally placed to thwart Operation Market-Garden.
@@davidscoltock3970 Those two tank regiments had 16 tanks between them, and a combined strength of 8000 men.
The only goof in this film is casting Ryan O'Neal as a General, he's only 35 yr here.
Gen. Gavin was 37.
It was a totally accurate casting choice.
Do your research before making ridiculous comments. His casting and behavior were quite accurate based on eyewitnesses.
I believe that Gavin was the youngest Division Commander in the US Army at the time.
Birthdate March 22, 1907. General Gavin would have been 37.
Actualy, Arnhem failed because they had a landingzone 32 kilomteres away from the bridge. Second of all, Prince Bernhart knew there was a SS PanzerDivision near Arnhem. If they listend to him, they might could have gotten Arnhembridge!
'32 kilomteres away from the bridge' It was actually just under 14 kilomteres.
Prince Bernhard was aformer SS man who was trusted by neither British or US intelligence. Only his royal connections kept him out of prison in the 1970s.
Know your local intel
Ultra intercepts identified the armour location but the intelligence did not cause a change of plans.
@@markholden9167 once the plans fell into German hands , it was time to go to Antwerp instead
The Dutch underground had been heavily infiltrated by the Germans by1944. So it was understandable the Allies feared misinformation coming from them. Although once photo recon confirmed German armor around Arnhem it should have been a giant red flag.
If only we had alternative routes..
I never understood that. Doesn't the Army have secondary objectives and plans if the main route is stalled or blocked?
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Mind The Gap!
ABC game show: Generation Gap; host: Kelly Ripa.
Why do people always ignore the fact that Market Garden was a strategic success?
Due to the operation, Holland was liberated in weeks and the Germans pushed to the Rhine.
Yes, they failed to take Arnhem and push into Germany but they closed down Holland.
David Scoltock It Certainly was not, it was a road going no where, for XXX Corp... the Arnhem campaign had to be 100% to of any use.
Market Garden was in sep 1944 and the most densely populated area of Holland (de randstad) remained occupied and the front that splitted east- and west Holland caused a famine. The major cities remained occupied until the surrender of Germany.
Did we win the war?
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I watched the Movie recently. I have to wonder: Why did Eisenhower ever approve of Montgomery's Market Garden ?? He knew Montgomery was not the best.
Politics....
@@deanhibler3117 I've read 50 books on the ETO and the Med - quite frankly IKE didn't have any balls. Monty only won when he couldn't lose, MacArthur as big as an ego or even Marshall would have set things straight. Repeatedly bernard not only didn't meet expectations but then lied about it. At both CAEN and Monty Garden. The British had so many better commanders but Churchill interferred with their operations that led to failures,he forgot his debacle at Gallipoli. He stuck with this mistake Monty rather than dare admit he made one
‘’I not only approved Market-Garden, I insisted upon it. We needed a bridgehead over the Rhine. If that could be accomplished I was quite willing to wait on all other operations.”
-Eisenhower
He thought it was a good plan and when asked about it he said if there was just a 1% chance of it working we had to take it .
And it wasn’t a complete disaster the allies gained 60 miles or ground, liberated 17% of the Netherlands .
Inflicted casualties the Germans couldn’t afford, secured Antwerp and used Nijmegen as a spring board for the invasion of Germany in 1945 .
@@bigwoody4704 1.Who are you writing to ?
2. What is your point ?
@@rupertsmith5815 Eisenhower pandered to Montgomery at ever turn. He knew Montgomery was less than a mediocre Genera, compared to Patton, but did not want to anger the British dope.
@BigRIJoe
Since when do the Brits use kilometres?
It's called the imperial system for a reason.
British military maps have been in kilometres since 1919 - maybe that's why.
patton was the real war hero
Well Patton was smart enough he wouldn't use a two lane road as the only way into a strategic objective.
Well he was good general but not perfect he was against D-day and he performed badly at Metz.
@@rupertsmith5815 here the english(monty's plan) never listen to the dutch resistance and it was a mess-radios where out of order-lack of ammunitions-bad organisation-if patton where there it was another history-patton also critizised the jews after the war and he was assassinated !!!!!!
@@gouvyrock Again your over glorifying him acting like he could do no wrong but he did he made repeated mistakes and your ignoring the main reason it failed was the Americans failing to take son and Nijmegen bridge even if he was in command those would’ve still happened.
And stop with antisemitic talking point that all Jews are evil alright if he was assassinated it would be because of the Soviets.
And he wanted the war to continue because he loved war which would’ve killed millions more
@@rupertsmith5815 made some research about who want the second world war-it was not germany-and stop this antisemitic crap-you can critizised everybody but not jews -strange no!! the federal reserve -the banks-the medias-politics-the aipac run by who ? you make me laugh !!!!!!
Patton?
Quite possibly the MOST, overrated general in history.
And a lousy, human being to boot.
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Patton was highly competent, best Allied General
How exactly was he overrated and more so, how was he a rotten human being?
@@dorothyburry42 They claim he was prejudiced against Blacks yet kept a black orderly for his entire time in the War; and Sgt Meeks was put in the Generals Funeral parade in place of Bedell Smith whom Patton hated.
Patton also called a black tank destroyer battalion the best tank killers he ever saw
Supposedly anti semetic but had Jewis staff officers
And so on.
The Germans respected Patton above all other allied senior generals.
@@dorothyburry42 Well he was against D-day, he did terribly at Metz and got a battalion whipped out in the last few months of the war trying to take glory away from the British.
And he loved war and tried to keep it going after Germany surrendered and was extremely anti Semitic and called soldiers with ptsd cowards
@@johnhallett5846 Having Jewish stay officers doesn't mean you're not antisemitic I mean even hitler had a man of jewish heritage as his driver, and the way he spoke about the soviets he often insulted them for it's jewish origins and in his diaries he frequently insulted them.
no, the British use miles and the rest of Europe use kilometres. I know this because I am British so don't bother arguing.
NB Gibraltar is a British colony and they also use miles, I believe that this is also true of Malta but I cannot be certain.
Quit deleting information that shines light on this crap operation
@@bigwoody4704 man you’re life in just watching this scene over and over again and writing comments lol
no its disabusing slappies like you of your fauntleroys fantasies
@@bigwoody4704 1. What information are they deleting ?
2. Ok how am I a slappie ?
3. What fauntleroys fantasies do I have ?
The the guy running the site,LMAO pretty much everthing you post.You don't read,know or were taught history. Monty Garden should never have been considered or launched
@@bigwoody4704 What do you mean the guy running the site ? What are you on about
And yeah it was a bad plan no one is denying what are you on about?
And you didn’t answer the other questions
CLICK BAIT ON A SMALL TYPE WRITER
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