I LOVE that they took the fact that the kelpie was originally a Scottish myth, but later was adopted by the Norse, and explained it by saying they were "Rare around these parts" and Mimir even mentions they're from his homeland and the original myth of drowning children.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
@@ty814 kratos broke the prophecy by jumping straight to it In ragnarok heimdall and loki kill each other But because kratos kill him first The whole thing change
@@BoshyGou still didn’t understood what they meant. No. They were right from the beginning. It was Kratos's choice which let him live. These Norns doesn’t control the fates like the Greeks one. They just predict on the basis of the behaviour. Thats why they were Mocking Kratos for not Changing after all he lost and all the lives lost for him, by going this route his dead was inevitable. That's what they meant.
@@jhonnysilverhand13No. They were right from the beginning. It was Kratos's choice which let him live. These Norns doesn’t control the fates like the Greeks one. They just predict on the basis of the behaviour. Thats why they were Mocking Kratos for not Changing after all he lost and all the lives lost for him, by going this route his dead was inevitable. That's what they meant.
If you notice, each norn is an interesting twist on a parallel It's non-linear, but at the same time symptomatic of what each represents The younger speaks of the future, not in future tense but predicts what they do say, the youth always looking to the future The adult speaks in past tense, narration, elaborating on their actions. Maturity from childhood often means taking your experiences of the past and reflecting on them The elder addresses them, talks to them, is in the present. Wisdom from age educates you to the relevance of living life in the moment, being present when it matters Together, they are the combination of a life lived, not the literal representations of past, present & future but a subtle allegory for stages of a life lived. For characters centered on the literary process it's devilishly clever to subvert the common approach to it all
That's precisely the reason among countless cultures, the fates are always represented as Young, middle aged and old. It is interesting actually since countless paganistic reliogions have independently come up with the same look for fates. It only shows how clever people of the past were, another cleverly thought through symbolic example is, that In greek mythology Thanatos (God of death) has a twin brother, Hypnos (God of sleep), and since they are twin brothers they look almost the same - Which death and sleep for the glance of an eye do too.
@@-the_emperor-1660 Well ‘independently’ is a little presumptuous, more likely the Moirai and the Norns descend from the same story that has just diverged over time, this is because both the Greeks and the Norse are Indo-European. We can even see this in the other cultures descendant from the Indo-Europeans such as the Morrigan, who in Irish myths appears both as three sister goddesses and as a single goddess
@@tiringsarcasm You are right, I completely disregarded the national unconcious and Mythomotheur. but I would still argue that common ancestor doesnt necessarily imply a common result. I am not lettered in the section of mythological evolution, and I havent come across anything hinting indo european common idea of three sisters fates. however I am always glad to learn if you have anything to link, which would prove the existence of three fates in indoeuropean culture, please do. (Note - existence of the concept of fate does not count. We are looking for 3 fates controling it.)
@@-the_emperor-1660 The concept of numerous goddesses controlling the fates are a theme extremely common especially with the European myths. Aside from the three I have already mentioned, this includes: The Parcae from the romans, who may have been Greek influenced we will leave this one aside. the Wyrd from the old Anglo-Saxons, which is a linguistic cognate(meaning originating from the same parent word) with the name Urd of the Norse Norns. So is also likely the Anglo-Saxon name for their pre-Christian Norn equivalent. The word has a very interesting history in old english culture. In Latvian Mythology there is the Laima and her sisters Karta and Dekla, many times she appears as one goddess but sometimes as three. (There seems to be a theme with the three goddesses becoming one and back to three) Beyond these I can’t think of anymore, there are probably more to be found. Edit: okay I found more, There’s the Lithuanian folktale about seven goddess called the Deivės Valdytojos, where they spun a man’s fate and hung him into a star before he eventually died and when his thread snapped he fell as a meteor. The Slavs all have their own version of the three fate spinning goddesses that going over them would take too long.
@@tiringsarcasm okay, but where does this idea originate from? Who was arguably the first to think of fates as such? Yes, I have established that tree sisters is a common concept among cultures, but what makes me calling it independently created - a false statement? If the genesis of the myth was dependant on something. What civilisation thought of it first and then directly or not influenced the thoughts of others? once again I ask, who is the common ancestor of all those civilisations they derived the three fates from? If my idea of individual yet simultainiously parallel mytho genesis among varied nationalities, be them from common heritage or not, is flawed, then who is the ancestor to have influenced them all?
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
I think hearing them was the best thing he could do, he understood that all the senseless killing would only further the path he’s on faster and faster
@@hollowichigo24x Later when he and Freya were talking about what they got out of this encounter she points out that there was truth in their words and that the truth can be harsh at times.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
nah.. even then kratos was fairly respectful to women... they just bullying him they mean no harm; just like the wife of zeus he kept his cool til the girl puts her hands on her and threatened persephone.
I think what I love about this story is that it's not just kratos who had to change in order to subvert his fate. Thor making a promise to raise thrud right and stop drinking changed everything as the madman mimmir spoke of would have never considered peace. Both destroyers had to become better men in order to get to a point where they could lay their arms down. I love more that it took kratos killing his sons for thor to see what was important in his life and make that change for his daughter.
Everyone has choices that they can make for good or for ill in this game even Odin himself. When given the opportunity to change he stated that he would never stop no matter what it took to get what he wanted. He refused to change his script and so wrote his own ending.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Part of me wonders if they mess with you as part of a test? To see if you'll really do as they predict or make the decision to change things. The future's never set in stone; everything we say and do alters what will happen next.
That seems to be what they are trying to say. Knowing the lines won't change the ending, but they themselves admit there's no script. There's no lines, the ending's what you make of it - but unless something changes, it's gonna end just how you expect. "Your choices never change" can be taken as either an insult to bullishly continue on in spite, or self-reflect. All the Norns do is show you a mirror.
The game franchise emphasizes obsessions with prophecies and how fixating on something that only might happen can ruin you. And, more often than not, you create your own catastrophes by using any and all means to prevent them.
@@lozm4835 In order to change what you see in the mirror you yourself must make the effort to change and that can be a difficult thing. Sometimes showing someone a mirror can help them change, sometimes it can harden them on the script that they are writing, and some are aware of what they saw already and either need a different angle or they just choose to keep going regardless.
The Fates do not write reality. They cannot determine how the future will play out. They can only make predictions. Accurate predictions, but still only predictions. Anyone can change their fate, but they must change themselves first.
I think the Norns can still put a thumb on the scales, all the same, just by _telling_ key players of something that will happen, then letting the predictable reaction reshape history. For example, if Freya had not _known_ that Baldur would suffer a needless death, she would not have subjected Baldur to the spell of invulnerability - and Odin would not have demanded the spell for himself and punished her for not doing so. Freya and Odin would've stayed together longer (until Baldur suffered a _different_ meaningless death, perhaps), and Odin would've learned more Vanir magic from her, allowing him to wreak even more suffering upon the Nine Realms in his mad quest for the Answers to Everything. And similarly, the Norns told Kratos that Heimdall plotted to kill Atreus. (Note, by the way, that they never said Heimdall would _succeed,_ or even make any real effort to _try_ - Kratos jumped to that conclusion himself.) They knew that describing Heimdall in that way would _ensure_ that Kratos would seek to arm himself against Heimdall, and thus would ultimately prevail against him when they met in Vanaheim.
To be fair through they have figured it all out through and even if they don't belive Kartos can change they still give him advice so that he might be able 2
The three norns looks exactly the same and each does a specific thing and talks in a specific way , very interesting characters they almost seem like they are the same person in 3 different stages of life , the annoying one is the youngest the wise one is the eldest and the in between .
Soo good that the own Norns grandma's break the myth of them seen the future and making them more like Heimdall. Seen a predicted act. Another detail: i loved one watching, other being the scene e the last being the voice lines.
Wasn't it from the myth that the there were three norns? One for the past, the present and the future? For What I saw it was a literraly yet twisted representation of them
I can’t help but see that there’s irony in what they say. The norns make assumptions that people will be how they were. And therefore kratos will be more of a monster than a man. But he’s completely disproven their argument, by being better.
The irony might be the point. And in fairness, they're not exactly wrong - Kratos himself talks about how everything he does seems to come back around to revenge, and that's because for a good chunk of the game and all the games before it, that's all he was doing. He was either reacting to what someone else did, or making choices just to spite them. He is brutish and violent, even in Ragnarok, and shockingly being violent towards people tends to result in other people not liking you, seeking revenge, and either you seek revenge on them or your loved ones will. The Norns know this and hold up the mirror to get him to consciously realise this. Or maybe that's an overly charitable interpretation.
@@lozm4835 I think that's exactly it. Also, maybe that the Norns had see again and again how they tell people about the faults, and people's capacity to choose...and they refused to. Again and again. Heck, just look at Odin at the end. Gods are normally stubborn bastards, the fact that Kratos, Freya, and Thor ultimately can is kind of a big deal. Free will is there...people and gods just don't want to exercise it due to pride and such.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Fate seems to be one of the common/recurring themes of this story. What the old crone says about predictability and choice, specifically when Freya says that Kratos didnt kill her son our of anger... it echos the statement by Brok that it is not the form of the thing that matters, but its functionality... and it is represented also by the soul magic of the jotunn.
Anybody noticed he was referring to when he fought Poseidon in his HORSE form on top of Gaia and then THIS horse started freaking out? He played God of war 3
I wanted to write "Arguably the strongest scene in the game." but then I thought to what I am comparing it, and once again ended with: I have never seen a game, a movie, a series, a book, Have a story so compelling and yet so well told. Call me whatever you want, but God of War is the new peak of storytelling. this scene is mighty powerful mostly because it puts in front of you, the cold realisation, of meeting the fate it self, in a story definitely rooted around the issue of destiny. And the fates, play their role perfectly, as if they themselves were part of a greater prediction - by cryptically beating the main characters off, making them eventually think about their actions and change the course of their future. Fates have helped, without helping directly. By far the best visualisation of Fates to date. (by to date I mean literally better than the mythological across the globe fates.)
I loved the games storytelling, but personally I do think it was lacking just a bit in finale, really shoulda let you play as freya one time before the ending, and also really should have had the whole fall of asgard part be longer I honestly assumed near the end, it'd be odin dying, Thor ruling asgard, or what's remaining of it, so we could have asgard in a future game if it's ever needed and such Do like the detail of odin being in the same pose as kratos death prophecy in the ending though
@@fed3758 I think this fits much more into the context of the next game.. I know we spent lengthy sections with Freya even in this one,but I think those were meant to serve the exposition role... Preparing us for yet another meister stuck. But all in all you make a good point. I too felt that the gradation of the catastrophe was extreme.. I think at the final stage of story the developers tried to, i dunno, let's call it, hurry the player into the open world they have prepared for him. As the story was.. You know cut short.. But when it comes to Thor, I can't really argue with the story.. It's a two sided coin... Because, it is the "no chance at redemption because of death" cliché trope. Freshly revealed fathers dying for their children. Heroes or long lost legends sacrificing themselves in the final grand battle although the entire part of story was about them turning download the protagonists.. Etc.. And the other side to that coin is, that it actually happend for once to a character I cared about. Which makes this, although a cliché, original. Subjectively.. But still.. I may be limited by my lack of experience, but I just feel like God of War is the new story peak.. There could be many subjective factors.. The fact that I love mythology, magic, grind, and long experiences, collectibles.. And overall the general setting of the story.. But then.. I guess we all liked it otzerwise we wouldn't be here rewatching bits of it...
@@-the_emperor-1660 yeah the games story is amazing, personally I think I've played better story games, but overall I think it's definitely very memorable for years to come. Like I was invested, but I've been a bit more invested in a game than it, I was able to run off like 47 hours of no sleeping just from how invested I was in a story.
So, here's a question. At one point the Norns say something in Latin - Exeunt Omnes. Whilst this means 'All leave' roughly, the fact it's in Latin, not Greek or Norse, feels significant.
@@chancethewrapperr the return of the Greek Gods, but now in their Roman counterparts...this should be interesting, especially if they go to Egyptian mythology next, they could present the Roman Gods after that
@@James-May I actually speculate that it might be Atreus, not Kratos, who comes to revisit the Mediterranean. He will travel there in his search for the missing Jotnar, he will find that the Roman Gods have moved in to fill the gap left by the slain Greek pantheon, and he will work his way through his father's dark legacy in Greece while navigating whatever bullshit Jupiter and Mars and Venus are getting up to. Knowing Atreus and his sense of justice, if the Roman pantheon is doing _anything_ untoward, Atreus won't want to let them get away with it - but the tales of Greeks who survived Kratos' rampage will ultimately temper Atreus' response, remind him that just carving a bloody swathe through Italy won't solve anything, even if he had Kratos' sheer power (which he probably still won't). He'll have to be Loki - cunning, clever, trickster. Find a way to bring justice with as few divine fatalities as possible.
I had a thought about the Norns but I can't quite put it together. Each Norn is meant to symbolize an attribute of a story/book. The youngest is meant to represent the dialogue, and the adult Norn is meant to represent the narrator. But I can't quite make my mind up on what the elder Norn is supposed to represent. Could she possibly be a symbol for the reader? A symbol for the writer?
You would think Norns would be abit more cooperative with Kratos considering the fact he's killed the Sisters of Fate Don't forget that in the God of War lore The Sisters had a form of Time Travel and Freya said earlier that the Norns had no such power
Since the norns aren’t literally all-seeing like their Greek counterparts. The norns probably dont know the full extent of Kratos’ part in killing the fates anymore than Mimir does; probably only through legends and stories
The Norns' whole _thing_ here is to be able to gauge someone's personality to a high degree of precision, and guess how they will react. They knew exactly how far they could push Kratos - just enough to annoy him into leaving without being enough for him to want to kill them.
If they were really concerned about their well being, they wouldnt have flat out helped Kratos on his way to starting Ragnarok, they wouldve gave him false info to lead him down the wrong path. Perhaps their 'fate' of being apparently clairvoyant isnt a gift to them. Perhaps that 'gift' is Hell to them and the concept of Ragnarok is their sweet release they secretly sought out.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
The Norns literally changed the fate of Kratos through these convos. Kratos for once stopped doing what he does the best and ended up being alive and new god of the Norse pantheon! Ironically, Kratos still defied the prophecies and fates anyway! LoL
Norns concluded y'all fked. But what is to happen hasn't if you make it your own. It was theriozed in ancient times we are all to die. The end of our end journey doesn't matter. It's the paths we take in the road to it.
Verdandi's English voice actress is Emily O'Brien. The voice actress of the Gipsy Danger AI is Ellen McLain, also known for her role as the voice of GLaDOS in the Portal series.
So, basically they are telling the fate of Kratos, he will die by Thor. When Loki sides with Odin (believing Odins words and never coming back to Kratos)?
Kratos after Ragnarok goes to the Norns. Kratos:So old woman we meet again. Urd: Yes we do. And what honor it has been. Kratos: Let's get the matter in hand. I'm still alive. Urd: You want a medal ? Kratos: I want you to say it. Urd: What ? Skuld: "You know what ?". Urd:That I was wrong. Technically speaking you have been growing weaker as of the last few decades. Even with your EXTENDED life. Your humanity has been only been getting the best of you as of late. With your direct connection to your homeland severed. You are more mortal now than ever before. And now with your child finaly a man. What is there left for you to BE ? What is your anchor ? Verdandi: The champion is loosing patience. He cannot follow the line. Too far back in the tunnel to see what's ahead of him. Urd: You're getting old Kratos. Even if you don't die in the grasp of old age any time soon. It will happen. Now that your worship in these lands is secured. Very soon you will see yourself settling down. Growing tired. The days becoming shorter. Your children's children growing around you. As the world you help sustain becoming wider and fuller and then...you. Nothing lasts forever. Not even gods. You know that now. Your legacy is secured. And that's enough. So in a way I was right, from a certain point of view. Kratos:I...You...(anger builds up inside) Verdandi:He is speechles but not quite satisfied. Kratos: You think I am like the ones like me. Like my father. Like Thor. Like all those before me. And yet here I stand... Why do you think I am still here now ? Urd: Because you wanted to get the best of me too. You wanted to outwit me, to insult me. To win as you always do. Kratos: Exactly. Urd,Verdandi and Skuld:...? Kratos: Once. A lifetime ago. I would have never seen. I would have never dared imagine...that a man, any man could best a god. Brake him down,defeat him. And yet. I would have never imagined that man would LIVE after killing a god, making a family, living with that family and in doing so becoming a god himself. A lifetime ago I met someone. Someone that the gods found insignificant. So small that they didn't even considered it to be a person. But for the brief time I spent with HER, she taught me something. Urd, Verdandi: Did she ? Kratos: Something that I abide by every day. HOPE. Hope gives stength when we have none. Hope gave me the strength to overcome any obstacle. To overcome my father and all those that would protect him. But I was none the wiser and didn't know how to wield such power. It only came to me in my desperate moments, I used it to kill. When I could of used it to nurture. And in a lastige effort of rebelion against the ones responsible, the ONE that brought me to that point. I released the power...killing myself, having failed again. But when that should have been the end, I lived. Urd:And then you came here. To start over.That much we know.But what of... Kratos: In that failiure I understood one thing. The power left me, but it didn't forsake me. There is still a little of it still beckoning in me. Urd:That would mean... Kratos: There is no limitation I cannot transcend. Ragnarok has ended. But the greater fight continues. But this one will be fought not with swords, spears or arrows but with hammers. With hammers that will build, not destroy. Urd,Verdandi,Shuld:What ? Kratos: I will prove you wrong. I will outlast you. Our war begins ! (Cue the GOW3 Kratos Theme) TO BE CONTINUED
A very, VERY good script! I take it that he intends to defeat them not by slaying them, but by defying their assumptions about himself and everyone else? Ignite hope even in their cynical hearts?
@@Readasaur Like all good things it started as a joke and then I started thinking "how could Kratos beat them in there own game" and I made this on the spot. I put myself in Kratos's position and all that he could and would use to argument himself.
They were as annoying as they needed to be. If they'd been more friendly, he'd have hung around, asked more questions than they wanted to answer. If they'd been more annoying, he'd have gone all God of War 2 on them. But the whole _point_ of the Norns in this series is that they are spectacular judges of character, and thus they knew the exact balance to strike.
I LOVE that they took the fact that the kelpie was originally a Scottish myth, but later was adopted by the Norse, and explained it by saying they were "Rare around these parts" and Mimir even mentions they're from his homeland and the original myth of drowning children.
From a narrative perspective that scene was brilliant. Really cuts deep into myths and what makes them so compelling.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
"I have killed Gods greater than him"
*Ok Kratos no need to flex killing the pantheon*
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
@@ty814 prophecy is a fickle and fragile thing.
@@ty814 kratos broke the prophecy by jumping straight to it
In ragnarok heimdall and loki kill each other
But because kratos kill him first
The whole thing change
@@BoshyGou still didn’t understood what they meant.
No. They were right from the beginning. It was Kratos's choice which let him live. These Norns doesn’t control the fates like the Greeks one. They just predict on the basis of the behaviour. Thats why they were Mocking Kratos for not Changing after all he lost and all the lives lost for him, by going this route his dead was inevitable. That's what they meant.
@@jhonnysilverhand13No. They were right from the beginning. It was Kratos's choice which let him live. These Norns doesn’t control the fates like the Greeks one. They just predict on the basis of the behaviour. Thats why they were Mocking Kratos for not Changing after all he lost and all the lives lost for him, by going this route his dead was inevitable. That's what they meant.
If you notice, each norn is an interesting twist on a parallel
It's non-linear, but at the same time symptomatic of what each represents
The younger speaks of the future, not in future tense but predicts what they do say, the youth always looking to the future
The adult speaks in past tense, narration, elaborating on their actions. Maturity from childhood often means taking your experiences of the past and reflecting on them
The elder addresses them, talks to them, is in the present. Wisdom from age educates you to the relevance of living life in the moment, being present when it matters
Together, they are the combination of a life lived, not the literal representations of past, present & future but a subtle allegory for stages of a life lived. For characters centered on the literary process it's devilishly clever to subvert the common approach to it all
That's precisely the reason among countless cultures, the fates are always represented as Young, middle aged and old. It is interesting actually since countless paganistic reliogions have independently come up with the same look for fates.
It only shows how clever people of the past were, another cleverly thought through symbolic example is, that In greek mythology Thanatos (God of death) has a twin brother, Hypnos (God of sleep), and since they are twin brothers they look almost the same - Which death and sleep for the glance of an eye do too.
@@-the_emperor-1660 Well ‘independently’ is a little presumptuous, more likely the Moirai and the Norns descend from the same story that has just diverged over time, this is because both the Greeks and the Norse are Indo-European.
We can even see this in the other cultures descendant from the Indo-Europeans such as the Morrigan, who in Irish myths appears both as three sister goddesses and as a single goddess
@@tiringsarcasm You are right, I completely disregarded the national unconcious and Mythomotheur.
but I would still argue that common ancestor doesnt necessarily imply a common result.
I am not lettered in the section of mythological evolution, and I havent come across anything hinting indo european common idea of three sisters fates. however I am always glad to learn if you have anything to link, which would prove the existence of three fates in indoeuropean culture, please do. (Note - existence of the concept of fate does not count. We are looking for 3 fates controling it.)
@@-the_emperor-1660 The concept of numerous goddesses controlling the fates are a theme extremely common especially with the European myths. Aside from the three I have already mentioned, this includes:
The Parcae from the romans, who may have been Greek influenced we will leave this one aside.
the Wyrd from the old Anglo-Saxons, which is a linguistic cognate(meaning originating from the same parent word) with the name Urd of the Norse Norns. So is also likely the Anglo-Saxon name for their pre-Christian Norn equivalent. The word has a very interesting history in old english culture.
In Latvian Mythology there is the Laima and her sisters Karta and Dekla, many times she appears as one goddess but sometimes as three. (There seems to be a theme with the three goddesses becoming one and back to three)
Beyond these I can’t think of anymore, there are probably more to be found.
Edit: okay I found more,
There’s the Lithuanian folktale about seven goddess called the Deivės Valdytojos, where they spun a man’s fate and hung him into a star before he eventually died and when his thread snapped he fell as a meteor.
The Slavs all have their own version of the three fate spinning goddesses that going over them would take too long.
@@tiringsarcasm okay, but where does this idea originate from? Who was arguably the first to think of fates as such?
Yes, I have established that tree sisters is a common concept among cultures, but what makes me calling it independently created - a false statement?
If the genesis of the myth was dependant on something. What civilisation thought of it first and then directly or not influenced the thoughts of others? once again I ask, who is the common ancestor of all those civilisations they derived the three fates from?
If my idea of individual yet simultainiously parallel mytho genesis among varied nationalities, be them from common heritage or not, is flawed, then who is the ancestor to have influenced them all?
Other oracles or fate: we are almighty we are time itself
Nornirs :
We just took a phd in math and psychology at the university of Oslo
And now who is breathing?
Kratos listened to what they said and figured it out. It’s because he didn’t kill Thor his fate changed
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Guess he rather hear the Norns rather than the sisters of fate.
@Clay Tablet Shogun Well troll and telling the truth at the same time.
I think hearing them was the best thing he could do, he understood that all the senseless killing would only further the path he’s on faster and faster
@@hollowichigo24x Later when he and Freya were talking about what they got out of this encounter she points out that there was truth in their words and that the truth can be harsh at times.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Considering the alternative, being vibe checked with the harsh truth is much better than getting slapped out of existence
If it was the old kratos…. He wouldn’t have let that shit slide
nah.. even then kratos was fairly respectful to women... they just bullying him they mean no harm; just like the wife of zeus he kept his cool til the girl puts her hands on her and threatened persephone.
@@larmedelune3800 remember what he did to hera?
THE HANDS OF DEATH COULD NOT DEFEAT ME, THE SISTERS OF FATE COULD NOT HOLD ME
Music really makes this scene 100% better.
what is the music called? title-wise i mean brother
@@brycemiguel247 I FOUND IT BROTHER!
th-cam.com/video/ibW8gmXHWaw/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=SonySoundtracksVEVO
@@brycemiguel247 Ragnarok, though it isn't quite the same
Okay, so Skuld reads the lines, and Verdandi reads the stage directions.
What does Uro do?
@@koanos2448 the narrator explaining the story
@@koanos2448 Uro talks to the characters
Uro is the critic.
Urd recalled the Past, Verdandi narrate the Present, while Skuld predict the Future. They didn't decide Destiny, they oversee the course of History.
I think what I love about this story is that it's not just kratos who had to change in order to subvert his fate. Thor making a promise to raise thrud right and stop drinking changed everything as the madman mimmir spoke of would have never considered peace. Both destroyers had to become better men in order to get to a point where they could lay their arms down. I love more that it took kratos killing his sons for thor to see what was important in his life and make that change for his daughter.
Everyone has choices that they can make for good or for ill in this game even Odin himself. When given the opportunity to change he stated that he would never stop no matter what it took to get what he wanted. He refused to change his script and so wrote his own ending.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Part of me wonders if they mess with you as part of a test? To see if you'll really do as they predict or make the decision to change things. The future's never set in stone; everything we say and do alters what will happen next.
That seems to be what they are trying to say. Knowing the lines won't change the ending, but they themselves admit there's no script. There's no lines, the ending's what you make of it - but unless something changes, it's gonna end just how you expect. "Your choices never change" can be taken as either an insult to bullishly continue on in spite, or self-reflect. All the Norns do is show you a mirror.
The game franchise emphasizes obsessions with prophecies and how fixating on something that only might happen can ruin you. And, more often than not, you create your own catastrophes by using any and all means to prevent them.
@@lozm4835 In order to change what you see in the mirror you yourself must make the effort to change and that can be a difficult thing. Sometimes showing someone a mirror can help them change, sometimes it can harden them on the script that they are writing, and some are aware of what they saw already and either need a different angle or they just choose to keep going regardless.
The Fates do not write reality. They cannot determine how the future will play out. They can only make predictions.
Accurate predictions, but still only predictions. Anyone can change their fate, but they must change themselves first.
th-cam.com/video/5ATxT1MUZE8/w-d-xo.html exactly the nature of paradoxes and the abstract in general
I think the Norns can still put a thumb on the scales, all the same, just by _telling_ key players of something that will happen, then letting the predictable reaction reshape history.
For example, if Freya had not _known_ that Baldur would suffer a needless death, she would not have subjected Baldur to the spell of invulnerability - and Odin would not have demanded the spell for himself and punished her for not doing so. Freya and Odin would've stayed together longer (until Baldur suffered a _different_ meaningless death, perhaps), and Odin would've learned more Vanir magic from her, allowing him to wreak even more suffering upon the Nine Realms in his mad quest for the Answers to Everything.
And similarly, the Norns told Kratos that Heimdall plotted to kill Atreus. (Note, by the way, that they never said Heimdall would _succeed,_ or even make any real effort to _try_ - Kratos jumped to that conclusion himself.) They knew that describing Heimdall in that way would _ensure_ that Kratos would seek to arm himself against Heimdall, and thus would ultimately prevail against him when they met in Vanaheim.
Kratos of Sparta dies, and Kratos of the Nine Realms is born.
Those 3 better shut it, this ain't the first time we killed 3 ladies who seemed to think they had it all figured out
Period
Skuld: “Those 3 better shut it, this ain’t the first time we killed 3 ladies who seemed to think they had it all figured out” 😂
@@nate742 Kratos: I’m gonna strangle you now
Skuld: I’m gonna-
To be fair through they have figured it all out through and even if they don't belive Kartos can change they still give him advice so that he might be able 2
But Kratos would be proving them right. That he’s incapable of resolving something without resorting to bloodshed.
Without the soundtrack this scene loses 60% of his power
More like 82% for me..
The three norns looks exactly the same and each does a specific thing and talks in a specific way , very interesting characters they almost seem like they are the same person in 3 different stages of life , the annoying one is the youngest the wise one is the eldest and the in between .
The way the youngest norn dictates their words, her voice is cute
Can we all agree that Skuld's persistent line reading is adorable?
Soo good that the own Norns grandma's break the myth of them seen the future and making them more like Heimdall. Seen a predicted act.
Another detail: i loved one watching, other being the scene e the last being the voice lines.
Wasn't it from the myth that the there were three norns? One for the past, the present and the future? For What I saw it was a literraly yet twisted representation of them
@@joany_00 i think they represent in a Shakespearean way
I was expecting Kratos saying "I want a Goddess like you to stay with me forever" to Verdandi
I can’t help but see that there’s irony in what they say. The norns make assumptions that people will be how they were. And therefore kratos will be more of a monster than a man. But he’s completely disproven their argument, by being better.
thats why they said Kratos of Sparta will die tho, cuz he will change to be better
Thats not the point. He will kill those he considers a threat to Atreas life. Wouldn't be much of a father if he didn't.
The irony might be the point. And in fairness, they're not exactly wrong - Kratos himself talks about how everything he does seems to come back around to revenge, and that's because for a good chunk of the game and all the games before it, that's all he was doing. He was either reacting to what someone else did, or making choices just to spite them. He is brutish and violent, even in Ragnarok, and shockingly being violent towards people tends to result in other people not liking you, seeking revenge, and either you seek revenge on them or your loved ones will. The Norns know this and hold up the mirror to get him to consciously realise this. Or maybe that's an overly charitable interpretation.
@@lozm4835 I think that's exactly it. Also, maybe that the Norns had see again and again how they tell people about the faults, and people's capacity to choose...and they refused to. Again and again.
Heck, just look at Odin at the end. Gods are normally stubborn bastards, the fact that Kratos, Freya, and Thor ultimately can is kind of a big deal. Free will is there...people and gods just don't want to exercise it due to pride and such.
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Fate seems to be one of the common/recurring themes of this story. What the old crone says about predictability and choice, specifically when Freya says that Kratos didnt kill her son our of anger... it echos the statement by Brok that it is not the form of the thing that matters, but its functionality... and it is represented also by the soul magic of the jotunn.
Oh hey! Belldandy, Urd, and Skuld! So this is what they look like when they're not waifuized in an anime.
Man of culture.
Hold this 'like'.
Anybody noticed he was referring to when he fought Poseidon in his HORSE form on top of Gaia and then THIS horse started freaking out? He played God of war 3
I think that those visions are a form of 'test' to see if you can really change your destiny
I wanted to write "Arguably the strongest scene in the game." but then I thought to what I am comparing it, and once again ended with:
I have never seen a game, a movie, a series, a book, Have a story so compelling and yet so well told. Call me whatever you want, but God of War is the new peak of storytelling.
this scene is mighty powerful mostly because it puts in front of you, the cold realisation, of meeting the fate it self, in a story definitely rooted around the issue of destiny. And the fates, play their role perfectly, as if they themselves were part of a greater prediction - by cryptically beating the main characters off, making them eventually think about their actions and change the course of their future.
Fates have helped, without helping directly. By far the best visualisation of Fates to date. (by to date I mean literally better than the mythological across the globe fates.)
I loved the games storytelling, but personally I do think it was lacking just a bit in finale, really shoulda let you play as freya one time before the ending, and also really should have had the whole fall of asgard part be longer
I honestly assumed near the end, it'd be odin dying, Thor ruling asgard, or what's remaining of it, so we could have asgard in a future game if it's ever needed and such
Do like the detail of odin being in the same pose as kratos death prophecy in the ending though
@@fed3758 I think this fits much more into the context of the next game..
I know we spent lengthy sections with Freya even in this one,but I think those were meant to serve the exposition role... Preparing us for yet another meister stuck.
But all in all you make a good point.
I too felt that the gradation of the catastrophe was extreme..
I think at the final stage of story the developers tried to, i dunno, let's call it, hurry the player into the open world they have prepared for him.
As the story was.. You know cut short.. But when it comes to Thor, I can't really argue with the story.. It's a two sided coin... Because, it is the "no chance at redemption because of death" cliché trope. Freshly revealed fathers dying for their children. Heroes or long lost legends sacrificing themselves in the final grand battle although the entire part of story was about them turning download the protagonists.. Etc..
And the other side to that coin is, that it actually happend for once to a character I cared about. Which makes this, although a cliché, original. Subjectively.. But still..
I may be limited by my lack of experience, but I just feel like God of War is the new story peak..
There could be many subjective factors.. The fact that I love mythology, magic, grind, and long experiences, collectibles.. And overall the general setting of the story.. But then.. I guess we all liked it otzerwise we wouldn't be here rewatching bits of it...
@@-the_emperor-1660 yeah the games story is amazing, personally I think I've played better story games, but overall I think it's definitely very memorable for years to come. Like I was invested, but I've been a bit more invested in a game than it, I was able to run off like 47 hours of no sleeping just from how invested I was in a story.
The Way they childishly mimic the trio and giggle about it is hilarious.
So, Mimir is actually Puck, from British folklore, nice
Yes he talks about in the previous game
Who is puck?
@@Ee-lr5de a forest spirit from Celtic lore he serves the king and queen of that realm king Oberon and queen Titania
@@Ee-lr5de is the small animal from re: zero that brings winter
@@RoGameReview what?
Felt like the Norns were reading us like a library.
So, here's a question. At one point the Norns say something in Latin - Exeunt Omnes. Whilst this means 'All leave' roughly, the fact it's in Latin, not Greek or Norse, feels significant.
Possibly the revival of the greek pantheon through rome possibly.
@@chancethewrapperr the return of the Greek Gods, but now in their Roman counterparts...this should be interesting, especially if they go to Egyptian mythology next, they could present the Roman Gods after that
@@James-May I actually speculate that it might be Atreus, not Kratos, who comes to revisit the Mediterranean. He will travel there in his search for the missing Jotnar, he will find that the Roman Gods have moved in to fill the gap left by the slain Greek pantheon, and he will work his way through his father's dark legacy in Greece while navigating whatever bullshit Jupiter and Mars and Venus are getting up to.
Knowing Atreus and his sense of justice, if the Roman pantheon is doing _anything_ untoward, Atreus won't want to let them get away with it - but the tales of Greeks who survived Kratos' rampage will ultimately temper Atreus' response, remind him that just carving a bloody swathe through Italy won't solve anything, even if he had Kratos' sheer power (which he probably still won't). He'll have to be Loki - cunning, clever, trickster. Find a way to bring justice with as few divine fatalities as possible.
It's a theater term. She uses it because the Norns here are portrayed with a theater aesthetic.
I see the Radiant Armour is the popular choice.
Each norm is a different level of extra 🤣
GOW: Redemption
4:00😂😂😂😂😂😂
We need more gow ragnarok leaks
I had a thought about the Norns but I can't quite put it together. Each Norn is meant to symbolize an attribute of a story/book. The youngest is meant to represent the dialogue, and the adult Norn is meant to represent the narrator. But I can't quite make my mind up on what the elder Norn is supposed to represent. Could she possibly be a symbol for the reader? A symbol for the writer?
Notice how their all the same person but just different ages.
😮😮😮
You would think Norns would be abit more cooperative with Kratos considering the fact he's killed the Sisters of Fate
Don't forget that in the God of War lore The Sisters had a form of Time Travel and Freya said earlier that the Norns had no such power
This isn't the same Kratos though. And they know that. Killing them wouldn't have done him any favors anyway.
Since the norns aren’t literally all-seeing like their Greek counterparts. The norns probably dont know the full extent of Kratos’ part in killing the fates anymore than Mimir does; probably only through legends and stories
The Norns' whole _thing_ here is to be able to gauge someone's personality to a high degree of precision, and guess how they will react. They knew exactly how far they could push Kratos - just enough to annoy him into leaving without being enough for him to want to kill them.
If they were really concerned about their well being, they wouldnt have flat out helped Kratos on his way to starting Ragnarok, they wouldve gave him false info to lead him down the wrong path.
Perhaps their 'fate' of being apparently clairvoyant isnt a gift to them. Perhaps that 'gift' is Hell to them and the concept of Ragnarok is their sweet release they secretly sought out.
i don't know why but skuld reminds me so much of Brizzy Voices lol
According to the prophecy made by the Norns is that when Kratos shows his true "Ghost of Sparta" mode Atreus will side with Odin and then Kratos will die by the hands of Atreus or Odin?? Fans still telling that this Kratos is not in his rage mode etc.
Why you play without music? 04:45 this scene with music is amazing.
The Norns literally changed the fate of Kratos through these convos. Kratos for once stopped doing what he does the best and ended up being alive and new god of the Norse pantheon!
Ironically, Kratos still defied the prophecies and fates anyway! LoL
Or you could say the "Ghost of Sparta" truly died
4:01 - 4:04
When my son was born - SHUT UP!
I wonder what would have happened if Atreus visited the Norns instead of his dad and crew?
Norns concluded y'all fked. But what is to happen hasn't if you make it your own. It was theriozed in ancient times we are all to die. The end of our end journey doesn't matter. It's the paths we take in the road to it.
Well that was… annoying.
well those three are the biggest spoiler girls in the north of course they are annoying
Skuld: “Well that was… annoying.” 🤣
Do any of you think the Norns are just the writers taking the piss?
I think the veroandi's voice is the ai voice of gypsy danger in the movie pacific rim
Verdandi's English voice actress is Emily O'Brien. The voice actress of the Gipsy Danger AI is Ellen McLain, also known for her role as the voice of GLaDOS in the Portal series.
They knew exactly what would happen. They just like screwing with peoples heads. 😂
So, basically they are telling the fate of Kratos, he will die by Thor. When Loki sides with Odin (believing Odins words and never coming back to Kratos)?
5:01 hints God of War 6 being the final entry of the Norse Saga, not God of War 5
I really hope there’s many more games
why cant they make movies like this...
I don't think I'd ever been this pissed off in my entire life. The Norn's prophecy wasn't even about me; I'm still mad.
Why is the music missing?
I’m guessing copyright reasons
What if he visits the norn after odin death
you can't, the way to the well is blocked off, and there is dialogue depending if you try to go back with Boy or not
Kratos after Ragnarok goes to the Norns.
Kratos:So old woman we meet again.
Urd: Yes we do. And what honor it has been.
Kratos: Let's get the matter in hand. I'm still alive.
Urd: You want a medal ?
Kratos: I want you to say it.
Urd: What ?
Skuld: "You know what ?".
Urd:That I was wrong. Technically speaking you have been growing weaker as of the last few decades. Even with your EXTENDED life. Your humanity has been only been getting the best of you as of late. With your direct connection to your homeland severed. You are more mortal now than ever before. And now with your child finaly a man. What is there left for you to BE ? What is your anchor ?
Verdandi: The champion is loosing patience. He cannot follow the line. Too far back in the tunnel to see what's ahead of him.
Urd: You're getting old Kratos. Even if you don't die in the grasp of old age any time soon. It will happen. Now that your worship in these lands is secured. Very soon you will see yourself settling down. Growing tired. The days becoming shorter. Your children's children growing around you. As the world you help sustain becoming wider and fuller and then...you. Nothing lasts forever. Not even gods. You know that now. Your legacy is secured. And that's enough. So in a way I was right, from a certain point of view.
Kratos:I...You...(anger builds up inside)
Verdandi:He is speechles but not quite satisfied.
Kratos: You think I am like the ones like me. Like my father. Like Thor. Like all those before me. And yet here I stand... Why do you think I am still here now ?
Urd: Because you wanted to get the best of me too. You wanted to outwit me, to insult me. To win as you always do.
Kratos: Exactly.
Urd,Verdandi and Skuld:...?
Kratos: Once. A lifetime ago. I would have never seen. I would have never dared imagine...that a man, any man could best a god. Brake him down,defeat him. And yet. I would have never imagined that man would LIVE after killing a god, making a family, living with that family and in doing so becoming a god himself. A lifetime ago I met someone. Someone that the gods found insignificant. So small that they didn't even considered it to be a person. But for the brief time I spent with HER, she taught me something.
Urd, Verdandi: Did she ?
Kratos: Something that I abide by every day. HOPE. Hope gives stength when we have none. Hope gave me the strength to overcome any obstacle. To overcome my father and all those that would protect him. But I was none the wiser and didn't know how to wield such power. It only came to me in my desperate moments, I used it to kill. When I could of used it to nurture. And in a lastige effort of rebelion against the ones responsible, the ONE that brought me to that point. I released the power...killing myself, having failed again. But when that should have been the end, I lived.
Urd:And then you came here. To start over.That much we know.But what of...
Kratos: In that failiure I understood one thing. The power left me, but it didn't forsake me. There is still a little of it still beckoning in me.
Urd:That would mean...
Kratos: There is no limitation I cannot transcend. Ragnarok has ended. But the greater fight continues. But this one will be fought not with swords, spears or arrows but with hammers. With hammers that will build, not destroy.
Urd,Verdandi,Shuld:What ?
Kratos: I will prove you wrong. I will outlast you. Our war begins ! (Cue the GOW3 Kratos Theme)
TO BE CONTINUED
A very, VERY good script!
I take it that he intends to defeat them not by slaying them, but by defying their assumptions about himself and everyone else?
Ignite hope even in their cynical hearts?
@@Readasaur Like all good things it started as a joke and then I started thinking "how could Kratos beat them in there own game" and I made this on the spot. I put myself in Kratos's position and all that he could and would use to argument himself.
What the hell is The Norns?!
Nordic female deities that shapes/creates the destiny of others from a lowly villager to gods such as Odin and Thor himself.
They are sister of fates in Norse mythology
Norse mythology?!
@@dbgamezlive1777 Viking Mythology.
@@dbgamezlive1777 ....you're playing a game set in the Norse mythology and not realize what it is?
can you visit norns after ragnarok?
Sadly no
Go a head
As good as the scene was from an artistic perspective, I have never wanted for the old kratos more than that scene.
They annoying af.
They were as annoying as they needed to be. If they'd been more friendly, he'd have hung around, asked more questions than they wanted to answer. If they'd been more annoying, he'd have gone all God of War 2 on them. But the whole _point_ of the Norns in this series is that they are spectacular judges of character, and thus they knew the exact balance to strike.