Intellect loses. That's my conclusion of Brothers Karamazov. Humility is the key and Alyosha has got it. As did Zossima. Active love defeats abstract thinking. Argumentative atheists are too fond of their own point of view.
One more to add is that dostoyevsky makes the 'wrong' thinking characters as strong as possible. Steel manning their argument. Next although alyosha is not an intellectual he still acts properally in the world. Dostoyevsky is saying that although one may not be able to abstract and be a formidable intellectual to the reasonings of why they are acting, they can still act properly.
In reality, just like everything in life, the goal is balance. Sometimes you need to think rationally and sometimes you need to think empathetically. Resist the temptation of either or thinking.
@@antidepressant11 He wasn't saying think either or between intellect and love tho lol. He was saying you either completely believe in God or you don't. It takes rational thought to write a book like that lol.
Most excellent!!! What are your thoughts about Ivan understanding of the fall? It seems his view of God steams from that and the freedom to choose thus allowing us to be those rebels in my understanding.
Great video!! Same reason why in the Divine Comedy Virgil HAS to disappear at the end of Purgatory. After a certain point, Reason has to give way to Faith.
The kiss represents how the full spirit and understanding of God cannot be fully attained by words or rationalism, but through feeling and love. The message of God cannot be calculated mathematically or scientifically by logic and reason, but with emotion. That’s why the Christ figure doesn’t speak, but offers sentimentality.
Yes action and meaning rather than logic and rationality. That's why I think Aliosha is a direct answer to Ivan's questions and doubts. Because he doesn't respond to him, he doesn't put things into words but he acts out the story of Christ. He suffers with people, he helps infants (which I see as an anwser to the suffering of other children that Ivan points out) and he sacrifices himself to save Dimitri at the end. At the end he is redeemed and Ivan is in bed in a severe condition. He acted out how to live a life even in terrible situations, when Ivan through his nihilistic view of the world has been a reason for his father's death and has dived into madness. (Sorry for English mistakes)
I’ve noticed both religious folks and atheists tend to spin Dostoevsky a little. He made his criticisms and points about all of it. He’s a master of truly complex characters, and truly simple ones. Religious, atheist, whatever it was, he had a piercing gaze on the best and worst in something
It's the freedom to rationalize or exorise a split personal...as what you "suspend"...to re address issues as what you may later come to terms with or trow out the baby with bath water as conclusive...
Forgive me, but your analysis on Ivan seemed a little biased favoring Alyosha. Ivan/Dostoyevsky established some solid points on Christian Apologetics. However, thank you for making this video, and sharing this summary.
@@tomlabooks3263though he certainly writes Ivan as a troubled character, he does write (most) of his characters as grey to an extent, not black and white. So I partly agree, but not entirely
As I read more of Dostoevsky's works, I find that his answers to the questions are in Christianity. I am not a believer in the any of the Abrahamic religions, I am disappointed. I was hoping that he write about it in a non religious manner. I came to this work by way of listening to Jordan Peterson who mentioned reading Dostoevsky for psychological insights. But of course, since Peterson is a Christian what else would he say.
This could have been a perfect series but I think the coverage of this chapter isn't capturing what I felt when I read the book. For example, I didn't take Ivan's posturing before and during his reading as being evidence that he had written a false christ for show. He attempts to sugarcoat his poem as having the merits of a romantic or enlightened mind, but really his poem is an acknowledgement of the bleak big picture of reality and it actually doesn't place his values as being of great merit. His bumbling is his own lack of self confidence at facing what he knows. The big picture of Ivan's poem is about the real truth of the world, not a twisted pseudo-intellectual diatribe. It is the author speaking directly to us and telling us the world is built on an endless mountain of death, suffering, and lies and that the things we cling to are meaningless but that the door is open for christ. Ivan crumbles from his own perspective despite understanding the value of the kiss, zosima bowing, alyoshas kindness, etc. Alyosha doesn't break, he immediately acts out the christ behavior from the poem despite it all. That's the whole point, that Ivan is correct and even includes a solution but doesn't act it out because he's so broken by the weight of the darkness. Alyosha sees the solution right in Ivan's own words. So alyosha doesn't reject the truth of what Ivan has said. He accepts it and acts out christ behavior despite it, because the door is left open to do that. It's the first time in the entire book we see that alyosha is the hero of the novel. Before that he is depicted as a meek and intellectually outmatched boy. Afterwords he's confident and is unafraid to speak about intellectual topics, give his direct feelings, and get his hands dirty with real life parallels to the Inquisitor story. Despite being a very good analyst I think our host did not understand this chapter very well and seems to have religious feelings about it that make her interpret ivan with contempt. Ivan is written to be as smart as a person can be. He offers what Dostoyevsky feels is the most powerful truth he could possibly offer. The reason he downplays his own poem or tries to make it seem like merely a show or his talent is because its actually a truth that breaks him.
@@OwnYourBaldSpot Dostoyevsky's main schtick is that he's a weird fusion of both. That's why he's so fascinating. He literally has characters in the book embodying different and opposite ways he feels and none of them are perfect or right about everything. But he does think Alyosha is a good dude in the face of the worst things.
This is such a shallow analysis - more or less just reading out passages and not even getting close to the incredible depth and complexity of this novel
![[UNCUT]“ฅนตื่นธรรม”ปะทะ“หมอปลา-ปู่มหามุนี-อั๋นโอกิ”สะเทือนกระทรวงเวทมนตร์ Iคนดังนั่งเคลียร์I10 ตค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/peMD_SAkwNc/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks so much for this video series on TBK.
Fantastic! I am nearly to the end of my first read of this book, and wish I had found your videos sooner!
Thank you for posting this, reading this for the first time and am finding your videos invaluable!
nietsche >>>>>>fyodor!!!!!
Your insights are truly appreciated.
Thank you!
Thank you professor ❤
Very thankful for these videos Jessica.
machiavelli and nietsche will reign supreme for all posterity.
Intellect loses. That's my conclusion of Brothers Karamazov. Humility is the key and Alyosha has got it. As did Zossima. Active love defeats abstract thinking. Argumentative atheists are too fond of their own point of view.
One more to add is that dostoyevsky makes the 'wrong' thinking characters as strong as possible. Steel manning their argument.
Next although alyosha is not an intellectual he still acts properally in the world. Dostoyevsky is saying that although one may not be able to abstract and be a formidable intellectual to the reasonings of why they are acting, they can still act properly.
In reality, just like everything in life, the goal is balance. Sometimes you need to think rationally and sometimes you need to think empathetically. Resist the temptation of either or thinking.
@@Laocoon283 good book "either/or" by Kirkegaard. Feel free to read.
@@antidepressant11 He wasn't saying think either or between intellect and love tho lol. He was saying you either completely believe in God or you don't. It takes rational thought to write a book like that lol.
@@Laocoon283 lol
Such amazing work this series is.Well done.
Thank you so much!
Great job!
Most excellent!!! What are your thoughts about Ivan understanding of the fall? It seems his view of God steams from that and the freedom to choose thus allowing us to be those rebels in my understanding.
Great insights! I don’t 100% agree but love your take nonetheless
Great video!! Same reason why in the Divine Comedy Virgil HAS to disappear at the end of Purgatory. After a certain point, Reason has to give way to Faith.
The kiss represents how the full spirit and understanding of God cannot be fully attained by words or rationalism, but through feeling and love.
The message of God cannot be calculated mathematically or scientifically by logic and reason, but with emotion. That’s why the Christ figure doesn’t speak, but offers sentimentality.
Yes action and meaning rather than logic and rationality. That's why I think Aliosha is a direct answer to Ivan's questions and doubts. Because he doesn't respond to him, he doesn't put things into words but he acts out the story of Christ. He suffers with people, he helps infants (which I see as an anwser to the suffering of other children that Ivan points out) and he sacrifices himself to save Dimitri at the end. At the end he is redeemed and Ivan is in bed in a severe condition. He acted out how to live a life even in terrible situations, when Ivan through his nihilistic view of the world has been a reason for his father's death and has dived into madness.
(Sorry for English mistakes)
@@zarathustrap2562 great response, I don’t see any mistakes. Your English is better than mine haha
It may not be as innocent as it sounds...or what it may insist are oh so dominating factor's...in love with itself..
You are brilliant. Thank you
I’ve noticed both religious folks and atheists tend to spin Dostoevsky a little. He made his criticisms and points about all of it. He’s a master of truly complex characters, and truly simple ones. Religious, atheist, whatever it was, he had a piercing gaze on the best and worst in something
It's the freedom to rationalize or exorise a split personal...as what you "suspend"...to re address issues as what you may later come to terms with or trow out the baby with bath water as conclusive...
Forgive me, but your analysis on Ivan seemed a little biased favoring Alyosha. Ivan/Dostoyevsky established some solid points on Christian Apologetics. However, thank you for making this video, and sharing this summary.
neirsche>>>fyodor and godo dosent exist!!!!!!!!!! religion is a sham!!!!!!!
But Dostoevsky himself is ultimately biased against Ivan
@@gabrielethier2046 Your assuming that
@@Laocoon283 That’s not an assumption. That’s the entire point of the novel.
@@tomlabooks3263though he certainly writes Ivan as a troubled character, he does write (most) of his characters as grey to an extent, not black and white. So I partly agree, but not entirely
Wouldn't you say there is great critique agaisn't the church (orthodox/Roman) in the poem?
🥰🥰
nietsche>>>>fyodor machiavelli and neitshce will reign supreme for all of posterity.
Feel like you are missing the critique of the church.
As I read more of Dostoevsky's works, I find that his answers to the questions are in Christianity. I am not a believer in the any of the Abrahamic religions, I am disappointed. I was hoping that he write about it in a non religious manner. I came to this work by way of listening to Jordan Peterson who mentioned reading Dostoevsky for psychological insights. But of course, since Peterson is a Christian what else would he say.
This could have been a perfect series but I think the coverage of this chapter isn't capturing what I felt when I read the book. For example, I didn't take Ivan's posturing before and during his reading as being evidence that he had written a false christ for show. He attempts to sugarcoat his poem as having the merits of a romantic or enlightened mind, but really his poem is an acknowledgement of the bleak big picture of reality and it actually doesn't place his values as being of great merit. His bumbling is his own lack of self confidence at facing what he knows. The big picture of Ivan's poem is about the real truth of the world, not a twisted pseudo-intellectual diatribe. It is the author speaking directly to us and telling us the world is built on an endless mountain of death, suffering, and lies and that the things we cling to are meaningless but that the door is open for christ. Ivan crumbles from his own perspective despite understanding the value of the kiss, zosima bowing, alyoshas kindness, etc. Alyosha doesn't break, he immediately acts out the christ behavior from the poem despite it all. That's the whole point, that Ivan is correct and even includes a solution but doesn't act it out because he's so broken by the weight of the darkness. Alyosha sees the solution right in Ivan's own words. So alyosha doesn't reject the truth of what Ivan has said. He accepts it and acts out christ behavior despite it, because the door is left open to do that. It's the first time in the entire book we see that alyosha is the hero of the novel. Before that he is depicted as a meek and intellectually outmatched boy. Afterwords he's confident and is unafraid to speak about intellectual topics, give his direct feelings, and get his hands dirty with real life parallels to the Inquisitor story.
Despite being a very good analyst I think our host did not understand this chapter very well and seems to have religious feelings about it that make her interpret ivan with contempt. Ivan is written to be as smart as a person can be. He offers what Dostoyevsky feels is the most powerful truth he could possibly offer. The reason he downplays his own poem or tries to make it seem like merely a show or his talent is because its actually a truth that breaks him.
Very well said! I think both religious folks and atheists tend to spin this stuff. Dostoevsky made his criticisms and points about all of it.
@@OwnYourBaldSpot Dostoyevsky's main schtick is that he's a weird fusion of both. That's why he's so fascinating. He literally has characters in the book embodying different and opposite ways he feels and none of them are perfect or right about everything. But he does think Alyosha is a good dude in the face of the worst things.
Please read to me for as long as I last.
This is such a shallow analysis - more or less just reading out passages and not even getting close to the incredible depth and complexity of this novel