I went back and played marvel rivals tanks for about 5 hours straight yesterday. I have come to the conclusion that I'm pretty stupid and most of what I said in the marvels section was wrong lol. Check out the REDMAGIC 10 Pro here: bit.ly/4120ImB
A problem shared is a problem halved. By sharing his problems with 316,000 people, Jay has reduced his problem to 1/(2^316000) of the size it originally was. Truly a genius
What else do you expect from a liberal TH-camr OTHER than to be bad at games and have it be obvious while trying their best to NOT make it obvious that it’s a skill issue?
Deadlock is fundamentally a MOBA with hero shooter mechanics. You're expecting a hero shooter with MOBA mechanics instead, and becoming disappointed. The whole appeal of Dota in its inception was literally that anything can work. It's part of the genre.
I think he pretty much knows that. But his point is that while it works in MOBA it doesn't work as well in a Game like Deadlock (wich is esentially a Hero Shooter with MOBA rules, but for the topic in question is a Hero Shooter nontheless)
also one quick press of tab can show you everyone's builds so you can have an idea of what to expect. Someone complaining about Dynamo being DPS in Deadlock has never suffered through SMITE's egregious tank meta.
@@deannotcool Literally, like, it's an action camera MOBA Just because you can select a character and have a gun doesn't mean it's a hero shooter, and if it does we need to add a lot to the roster Deadlock is what happens if you take SMITE, give them guns, and make the characters spring loaded
Wait . Did he REMOVE a part of the video because he was being roasted because of it ?! I see time-stamp and comments of a non-existent skill-issue on Tank in Marvels Rivals, where is it ?!
@@abbadox315Yeah. Tanks are meant to make space a lot of the time, and one way to do that is to chase enemies to make them run away from objectives and using damage mitigation to stay alive, which you will probably be doing by default even if all you are doing IS killing. As long as you don't hide behind your squishier teammates, chasing kills as a tank is totally feasible.
I am 2 days late on this video, but I am not even out of the overwatch section in this video, im about to hit minute 4...and he has said like 20 incorrect things already. Holy hell of takes. This is as incorrect as a person can be regarding their opinion.
Hard disagree on your take on Rivals vanguards. I've had plenty of fun playing as Peni and Thor. I hate to be that guy but I think your dissatisfaction in regards to that aspect is a skill issue.
@@longshlongertin4531 and to be fair, Thor is the anomaly being the vanguard with the worst ult which is easy to dodge/interrupt and doesn't even one-shot to compensate.
@@gabrielpraslin9576 Yeah Thor's ult sucks. I don't think I've ever eliminated a single character with it. Peni's ult doesn't kill much but it's basically the ultimate space-denier because running around spamming left and right click lets you completely hog the space uncontested unless you let a Scarlet Witch ult or similar one-shot you. It's back-off-from-the-capture-point-payload-whatever: the move.
Fuck it I'll be mean cause honestly this entire video was "waaaaaaaaaaaaaa I can't mindlessly shit on people waaaaaaaaaa" DPS gremlin skill issue cope.
@@robinhoward7408 Bro just confused Moba with shooter element with a shooter with moba elements which is more close to paladins and Strinova than anything.
@@alies-Valorant is definitely not great, even by tactical shooter standards. Overpriced skins, underwhelming ultimates and half the roster just re using csgo grenades as abilities, plus every map besides one ooks straight out of a late xbox early xbox 360 cod halo editor with a faint shell shade that makes the characters look worst by proxy. Siege is legions better then valorant and ive played about 100 hours of both of them and csgo.
@@jessewilliams3166 yeah, that's exactly why i hate when people label Strinova as a bad Valorant knock-off, like if Valorant was an outstanding game without any flaws
Peni is great... when you have a decent team around her. Since she's basically a trap master she needs people around her good enough to make space to set up those traps
@@ShinigamiSparda Most of the more skill based characters in Rivals are great if you have a team that is able to work together and do their role. I'm starting to think that the star scoring for each character is basically a meter of how good you can be without needing any sort of cooperation.
Playing Loki is genuinely more fun to me than the DPS characters I play (Winter Soldier, Star-Lord), because of the sheer Loony Tunes shenanigans he has access to. Rivals makes every character unique to play, so you really feel like you are playing a completely different game when you play different characters.
Ok I know youre joking but like, its worth mentioning to people, all those scantily clad outfits in Marvel Rivals are comic accurate with a lil tag stating which comic theyre from, thats not marketing to gooners, its marketing to gooners AND comic nerds
Bro, you can just press Tab in Deadlock and you can see everyone's items. The enemy doesn't even need to be in your line of sight for you to see his current items. They even have a sort of bars that show what every player is building for, like more physical damage, health or magic. It's not even a game's mechanic, it's just a button that you should press sometimes
I tried playing Doc and tbh he just doesn’t feel right to me. Not to say I don’t think he’s cool and all that, but it’s kind of why I very much prefer Venom or even my girl Peni if it comes down to tanks, Peni especially.
Youre definitely playing tanks in rivals incorrectly. Tanks and supports deal a ton of damage, and you can play thor, hulk, and captain america like venom and dive the backline to execute supports and dps. I feel like its the only game to get it right, but people steer clear of the role because of the preconceived notion of whats generally expected from tanks and supports. Everybody wants to feel like the main character, and they think you get it through dps
Most of the dps champs are also easier than non-venom tanks imo. Punisher, Moon Knight, Starlord, Hela, Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, etc are really easy to rack up kills with even if you're bad (particularly in quickplay and low elo). This doesn't apply to more difficult heroes like Black Panther or Spider-Man obviously, but it's definitely the majority of dps roles.
Yeah honestly it's still insane to me how difficult it is to actually duel a Mantis or Luna Snow who can actually hit you with all of their attacks, Rocket has a big ass gun that isn't for show, Loki is this weird secondary healer you have to kill like 6 times in order to actually kill him (lore accurate), Jeff is Jeff and Warlock exists I guess. Warlock sucks ass and noone can refute this fact because nobody plays him.
@suspecm6316 warlock slander shall not be tolerated. this character can oneshot squishies, revive his entire team, and heal uhhh pretty decently i guess. if played optimally he's fantastic, but like you said, nobody plays him :(
@@baconsir1159true, its easier, but dps is easier than tank like kindergarten math is to 5th grade math; both are easy if decide to use more than one of your brain cells (not even all of them, just a couple)
The tank thing is kind of a skill diff tbh, tanks are pretty good in this game I don't know why more people don't try them out. Feels like people are coming in with assumptions from Overwatch
Tanks feel bad to play. Would all be more popular if they got tweaked to not have insanely long cooldowns, clunky controls and satisfying skill progression. A ton of tanks function like OW Sigma, but without the satisfaction of his rock ability, leaving a dude that just stands there and sure does a lot of damage, but it's not satisfying.
@nelvc7014 Strange flight is on 15 seconds, Maelstrum 8, Hulk has 8-15 seconds on literally all his abilities but jump, Magneto has bubble at 8 seconds and shield on 15, Cap has slam and bash both on 12 seconds, other tanks don't have their CDs on the wiki so I can't be bothered to check, but they also have long CD's. Literally the only tank that doesn't is Thor and he can only play the game every two seconds.
Just from watching your penni parker gameplay I can safely say you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. Tank and healers are extremely fun to play and offer a good variety in playstyle. Penni is about controlling an area with her bomb and bug web whereas Venom is about diving in to the enemy and swinging around. Most tanks have a different playstyle and way of fighting. Goes for healers aswell. Mantis is super strong in a fight whereas someone like jeff is bad in a fight aside from his ultimate.
For the Marvel rivals part of the video, I disagree that tanks just soak up damage and aren't fun to play. Personally I love playing Thor and Doctor Strange. Sure yeah I'm a big target but when you have good teammates you can steamroll without dying a single time.
You can command and carry gamers with Strange or Hulk, and do a lot of dmg if you play Thor, everyone can be fun they are just a bit more difficult to play than the rest of the roles
Dr Strange has so much damage potential and survivability that playing with a support allows me to shut off my brain and deal damage to enemies tank and overextended DPS, it's really fun and gets me 20k+ damage blocked (All of my cells have been renewed after a KOTH round)
15:48 This one statement makes me think you don't actually want to play hero shooters, you want to play CoD. I only like playing tank and support in rivals, I find all the DPS's to be eternally boring, which is why I choose to play these games instead of CoD or CSGO, because I get to play a different role than just kill the enemy team, I get to, you know, play as a team in a team based game where you play as a team and not just 6 people with guns.
Yep, it's all the same complaints about DPS mains not getting to mindlessly shit on worse players and team comps: 1. "One person can carry by flanking and wiping out the unaware enemy team with 0 game sense and 4 dps": of course he points out how much he likes Psylocke rn when she's busted and DPS only players also think the exact same thing instead of playing objectives so it's just them flanking Supports who have to save themselves coz their own DPS are nowhere to be seen (and complain about no heals). Teammates just exist draw aggro and heal me while I go in coz I'm smart and flank every time. Or conversely, my aim with Hawkeye and Hela are sick. 2. "People only want to get kills": then go play the TDM mode or other normal shooters instead of team based ones with varying abilities and objectives including longterm survival on control points. Some people like tanking and supporting in different types of games. MMORPGs must be terrible then coz they're so specialized I guess.
Yeah I get why tanks aren't the most popular role but that doesn't mean they arent fun to play (they have like a 3:1 ratio with dps too which doesn't help) and actually support is really popular in this game. Mantis has nearly a 50% pick rate which is insanely high. Hulk also has the highest win rate in the game so saying he has nothing to do in the game is brain dead. The more I hear peoples opinions about rivals the more I realize no one knows what they are talking about 😂
Being critical, I find the logic used in the video strips the discussion of a lot of its nuance. I really dislike the use of a linear scale where an arbitrary zone is marked as a sweet spot, because it ignores the level at which a game is intended to be played at and the different systems that make an experience work. I think your criticism of deadlock definitely is the best example to highlight my first point, some games are not meant to be casual first games, and I think deadlocks design expects a certain amount of proficiency to be played as its intended. As someone that has played a lot of the game, its easy to hover over a player and immediately get a sense of what someone is building. This along side the high time to kill, creates opportunities to outplay and counter buy in a way that remedies the issues you encountered. To be clear, I do not disagree that the level of freedom a game offers is important but its also important to discuss the ways that freedom works in tandem with the intentions of the developers and the systems of the game to successfully explain why some experiences work and why others don't. Something that I think you are also aware of, and struggled to fit into your reasoning. TF2 offers the player an incredible amount of freedom, where the items used will entirely change the way you play a character, but you put it lower towards the center of the scale because of the characters readability. The game offers no less freedom because of its readability, this is your system struggling to explain and adjust for the nuance, instead arbitrarily categorizing something as less free to help fit the conventions established. I only stress this because game design is incredibly hard, and the framework established in this video creates a false precedent that trivializes and poisons an already heated and tedious debate. I don't think you can boil game design down to a science, and I think this could have been a fun opportunity to discuss the genuinely unique and creative systems and tools games use to remedy the flaws and pitfalls other experiences fall into. Feel free to disagree, and I am most likely not entirely right here, but I think it goes towards explaining a lot of the anger and disagreement in the comments.
As a Peni Parker/Rocket main- Not everyone plays Hero shooters to get kills- I love playing support, and keeping friends alive, without focusing too much on my own kills- Or creating traps to stop enemy advances (Cough cough spider mines)
Deadlock is literally Dota 2 in 3rd person. Whoever compares it to LoL or freaking TF2 never touched Dota2 and don't understand how the game functions.
Yeah pretty much his complaint boils down to skill/experience issues or not liking the style of game. Having played several hundred hours you start to immediately recognize opposing build styles,
Tell me you don't know how to play Tanks or Supports without telling me you don't know how to play tanks or supports. Mantis is the second most OP hero in the game, and Thor, Hulk, Strange are all very fun and unique (and can pop off) if you know what you're doing. Also the biggest reason your Thor ult did nothing in the clip is because Luna ult was up
Yeah I'm a Thor main and often get most kills in a game in ranked lobbies, and he has a super unique play style of dashing around to get shields while disrupting enemy lines.
Peni is also a ton of fun and can stun most characters out of their ults if you're good at her web shot. Just using her as a mobile turret would, indeed, be boring but that's not what you're supposed to be doing.
To be fair, I honestly do feel like Thor ult is extremely underwhelming compared to the others. I feel like they either need to up the radius, increase the damage, make him cc immune, or make him crash down faster, because right now it requires insane setup to get anything out of it, and what you get is middling.
This half-ass low effort video feels like a clickbait, u have horrible takes & opinions on a lot of things, which people are already disagreeing with u in the comment section. "People play these games to get kills" lol, then go play CoD or CSGO, I don't want my healers focusing on dps and doesn't heal my ass xD
Bro Thors ultimate is actually really good damage wise, you just happened to use it while Luna Snow activated her ultimate too😭 y’know the same ultimate that makes anyone in her radius practically unkillable for 10 seconds 💀 In the nicest way possible, this isn’t a dev issue, you just need to learn how to play properly. Supports and Tanks are incredibly fun to play, if you only care about getting kills and not assisting the larger team, go play Call of Duty. It’s a TEAM game, believe it or not a good amount of players like me love the tactical aspect, much more than purely going for kill streaks.
No one (who has ever played anything other than support) can ever convince me they don't have an intense urge to leave the game after the whole enemy team gets revived. Even single player rez is already extremely frustrating
@Kurell171 the rez is balanced out by the fact everyone spawns in one VERY visible spot and only on 100 hp. With a bad positioned rez your team will immediately get cooked again
Hate to say it, you are just bad at rivals. Tanks aren't killing machines. They are meant to lead charges and hold for dps. Half of the requirements for playing tank well is just having good game sense. Thor isn't meant to charge face first into a counter attack, he needs to single off 1-2 players and kill them. He needs to work with his team. His ult gives good chip damage, which can be used to help your team when pushing. Venom is meant to play aggressively. his blue heals and swinging makes him great for hit and runs. Each tank plays a little different. To get max value, you need to learn the style and work with and around it. Having characters that take skill keeps the game from being a CoD with objectives.
@@zaxtonhong3958trust me, tanks can get a lot of kills if you play it right, Peni for example who I've been playing can absolutely shut down areas and bully out of position healers and dps and straight up snipe the backline with her primary fire and some well placed mines, thor can absolutely run in and get kills in the right set up. But roles are defined. Damage dealers do damage, tanks tank, healers heal. But there's definitely a fair amount of overlap because I as Peni can have 9k damage and 2k healing while getting 11k damage blocked (actual stats from one of my games)
Half the tanks in Rivals are actually just fat assassins. They put up big damage numbers and get plenty of kills most of the time while soaking up massive damage. Personally, while I acknowledge they're good and appreciate them on my team, I also just find them very boring and/or mechanically awkward to play as. The only one that somewhat interests me is Captain America but I have some kind of bug or something that makes it really awkward to use his super jump which frustrates me. It might be my keyboard or settings, idk.
@@ElfireII you get a good hela or something and they will do more damage than the tanks, you just need to find the actually good players, unless it's a Dr strange, they'll probably always have highest daw
6:50 I will admit I play entirely too much deadlock, so this information is just ingrained by now anyway, but deadlock is probably the best moba for giving you vital information like this. Hold tab, and you can see what items people have leaned towards (gun damage, ability damage, or health). You can even hover individuals to check not only their items, but what abilities they've put points into. You made the point that it's a moba so all the stuff is gonna be more complicated than a regular hero shooter, and that's true. Deadlock is also probably one of the most inviting mobas because of the information it provides, and that's fascinating because it's still in Alpha too.
@KngMaxwell no shit he CAN, it's bad argumentation. and like, yeah? i can't complain about something I don't have knowledge of, so like what's your point. LOL
If youre confused in Deadlock, it's honestly a skill issue - play a few more games and you'll get a better idea of what your opponents are capable of in a given moment.
Deadlock is so much fun, so much freedom on what to do, it's the only game where even on top ranks you have that much freedom, let's see how it goes when it launches
Based on the comments, this video seems poorly researched… Tanks are arguably the best role in every game it’s available, he’ll I’d argue some tanks in this work better than their overwatch equivalents by a huge mile. Like it’s actually insane when people make it sound like tank is braindead or hard in game. Just actually know how to play the game and they literally carry every match.
It's not about them being good or bad, or easy or hard. It's about them being fun and interesting. Of course "fun" is subjective, but most people will tell you it's getting kills with impactful abilities or plays (or for free, if you're Hela). In OW tanks and supports have by far the most impactful and unique cooldowns among all characters. In Rivals the dps have ALL the fun abilities and their gameplay loops are just much more thought out. Flankers like Spiderman, Panther, Iron Fist, etc. have the most satisfying movement. Hela, Winter Soldier and Psylocke geht to clown on the entire lobby by the virtue of simply being better, Squirrel Girl gets random kills across the map, Hawk Eye is literally Hanzo with more stuff, they have flying Tracer ffs. Meanwhile half the tanks have three different flavors of politely bonking you on the head, Dr. Shield and Magneto is just Sigma with less skill expression. Peni at least has interesting cooldowns and can even use them without waiting half the match for them to come back on and Venom is Hamster, but easier so he's bound to be somewhat fun. And support is even worse in that regard imo. Cloak&Dagger at least have an interesting concept being two characters in one, and Mantis is fast and does insane damage, but her active abilities are really boring to use, Adam is a dps without the fun movement, Loki is a restricted Ying from Paladins, Luna's most fun ability is only available, when she doesn't do, well, ANYTHING, Racoon guy shoots, I guess and Jeff has his ult and being able to be immortal with well placed bubbles and smart use of his swim ability so that's a plus for once. I know I didn't do some characters justice and they can be definitly fun to play, but most of their kits are just not as fun to use as most dps' ones. And ontop of that we have more dps than tanks and supports combined so there is just much more variety in the dps category. Idk why they didn't learn that from Overwatch, but here we are again with twice the amount of characters for the most popular role.
@@badussywar8938 each role is equally important. You need to suck a lot to get that idea. It doesn't really matter which character serves that role, but someone has to do the job. Question is, if the game itself allows you to switch the role of your character in some way
@@fenix5fire lmao what? Rude for no reason. Support has and always will be the most important role on a team, with tanks slightly under them. Idk if you’re trying to cope for DPS mains, but DPS is far less important and there are DPSless teams that can function just fine
@@badussywar8938 you got me wrong. I meant that you probably can't feel it unless you completely failed in a match. Once you've started to search for a reason, you will slowly get closer to understanding that every role is important
Did the video get edited already? I see people talking about a section where he was playing tanks incorrectly but all I saw and heard was him talking about the female outfits like he was uncomfortable with them or something.
The isues you listed for Overwatch weren't mainly because of game changes, people got better and everyone plays more optimised. The classic mode by week 2 was run 2-2-2, or lose if you weren't just straight up significally better than ALL 6 enemies. You could easily just switch to Widow to dominate the lobby because she was overpowered. Hero choice wasn't so loose because of better design, it was because everyone was completely horrible at the game, hero design was actually more restrictive. Arguments like these always feel like they come from people who haven't actually been playing the game, they just miss when they had fun with it in 2016.
Hero design is the biggest problem Overwatch has. So many have mind-numbing kits, and the devs are obsessed with mitigation as a form of defence, instead of just making characters have better offensive abilities to fend off attacks. The second is basing a game on single objective game modes, which notoriously don’t work in PvP.
Eh, I disagree. Overwatch died by tedious nerfs to make the "perfect balance". Paladins still has a very active playerbase and is a textbook example of doing the opposite of what overwatch did. With the game being out as long as it has, skill doesn't have anything to do with it. Healers in paladins can fend of attacks and survive in a pinch as well as dish out decent damage. All while maintaining the freedom of choice and not being as limiting as blizzards overly micro managed shit soup of a game
deadlock isn't a hero shooter, it's a moba. For the complaint about not knowing what they're building into, if you press tab and hover over the player in game you can see their build and what items they have.
Hard disagree on tanks (specifically peni parker) being unfun, her mines and self healing allows for alot of interesting strategy trying to pick the right places to block off and good choke points, maybe not fun for everyone but if youve got a strategy brain likeme shes a blast
You also have to know when to push your advantage and move your web generator since it goes on cooldown for 5 seconds when you destroy it. If the enemy team gets wiped or pushed back strongly, it's time to advance - but not too far or it'll get destroyed the moment it drops before it has a chance to do anything. It's similar to an aggressive Engineer playstyle from TF2.
@@Lerbon_Janes I think that applies to all of them but Cap, and even he has the sprint and reflective shield. I guess also Magneto kind of, but the infinite health shields/bubbles can be pretty satisfying if used right
A daily reminder if anyone want to play deadlock: hero shooter =/= MOBA. They're two different genres and Deadlock isn't a hero shooter at all when I saw the gameplay, it heavily emphasis on your build and a lot quick thinking of knowing the enemy's build to counter it. There's so much to MOBAs which would turn into a long essay, to sum it up, it's a steep learning curve and time investment which isn't noob friendly to beginners. Also in 6:51, please hit tab.
Lame take on anime styled stuff like Strinova. If you can't tell the characters apart, it's because you don't want to. Calling them hookers is some weird energy too.
I gotta disagree with your point on Marvel rivals. It might feel a little boring at first but as soon as you get the hang of a character they are super fun to play. At first I thought most of the supports are boring and just heal with different abilities, but once I started playing them I understood their abilities their play styles and I thought it was super cool. Adam Warlock seemed super weird and boring but he actually deals a lot of damage with his attacks, both regular and charge up. His abilities need coordination with your team which incentives you to be a team player. Other characters like Mantis who deals insane damage especially with her boost make her sometimes feel like a dps. Honestly after learning the different characters I hardly find boring ones.
I dont think anyone has found this game boring out of the gate. Ive literally reads hundreds or probably thousands of comments of players experience and first takes and this is literally the FIRST time Ive heard that lmao
People who play hero shooters "just to get kills" are part of the problem. A team has many roles and if you can't play at least two of the three roles sufficiently you are a detriment to any team you're placed on.
i mean people who play hero shooters just to get kills fit into the "dps" role. It just depends on how you wanna do it. This guy is just coping but theres nothing wrong with playing hero shooters for cool kills
Tanks absolutely do a ton of damage. Groot places walls down that augment his damage and shut down retreat routes (or cuts LoS off from supports), Magneto literally has an insane team-up with Scarlet Witch that absolutely destroys enemies if you consistently hit his slashes. Mantis does some stupid high damage for a support with no fall-off (though with a projectile). Peni can blow up people if they aren't careful and step into your webs with a nest nearby. Rocket has some scary damage if you're close and he's hitting most of his bullets.
@@yellowtitan6040 Assuming you're not rage baiting, why do you believe this? @pikachu790 just gave a bunch of great points against StellarJay's argument, what are the reasons to agree with StellarJay?
If you press a special button the game literally shows you what items both your teammates and enemies bought. If you suffer in one area you can always buy an item to counter your enemies. Toxic bullets for example are very good against enemies that spec heavily in health regeneration. So what’s the issue???
15:07 imma be real, that just means you’re a shitty tank. Venom is fun as hell, hulk is fun as hell, dr strange is strong as hell, and I am Groot. And how the hell are you gonna say their ults arent cool? Venom turns into a puddle of goop and bites the whole area with a giant toothy maw, and Hulk becomes Hulk^2 and can throw the enemy around like that one tik tok of the dude at working at subway hitting shit with the dough.
Tbh I think this is the creator just enforcing his idea/definition of fun onto the role, many people would have a blast being in the front lines of battles helping their teammates by tanking shots for them while still being able to do decent damage themselves. That’s the whole point of roles, different playstyles for different players with different definitions of fun, that’s why I love playing Luna snow, she can move fast and her kit is basically 50/50 on support and individual character abilities which makes her fun since my only gameplan isn’t just sitting back and healing, I could also go on the aggressive and stall out fights for the team since I have decent dps and self healing, my point being the support role doesn’t just feel like relying on teammates while you sit back and basically watch . Of course with marvel rivals being a new game it’s destined to have balancing issues but it’s nothing major, it truly feels as if every role is pretty balanced.
@weeabooproductions2196 Absolutely. I think it might be true for the majority, but not everyone plays games for kills. I personally don't mind soaking up damage or pumping out heals.
@@heinzdoofenshmirtz2529 This does not apply when his opinion is biases and affected by the fact that he cannot play tanks correctly. Opinions are opinions but doesnt change the fact that some opinions are wrong
@@heinzdoofenshmirtz2529the fact that you agree with him also explains why your opinion on rivals is mehh, or your opinion in rivals explains why you agree with him. Either way theres a bias and discrepancy between how you both pay and the point of good support and tank
@ my opinion on it is that it’s a good game. What he said about tanks is true though, doesn’t mean ive got or anyone else has got bias towards the game. I play all kinds of styles but I don’t know what you mean by bias or whatever you’re talking about.
I would argue the lack of freedom in Overwatch stemmed from balancing issues. Of course, like someone else said here, naturally players will get better and optimize the game, but I think the GOATs meta is the prime example of this. They could not for the life of them figure out how to balance GOATs, so it became pretty much mandatory if you wanted to win against other people who are also running GOATs. I can't remember if this is my own conspiracy theory or if they've officially stated it, but I'm of the belief that Role Queue was created simply because they gave up on trying to balance GOATs, (since it was 3 healers 3 tanks) which further restricted player freedom.
On another note, I'm of the opinion that Overwatch might have fared better if they leaned more towards being casual rather than competitive, but we'll never know.
@@Julton I never played Overwatch, but your point of making the game more casual is 100% for me. I was interested, but I didn't have console or computer to play this when I was younger, but ass you said the competitive nature made it not as enticing for me to play. Doesn't also help that they had a loot-box system, but that is a whole other point.
@Julton Absolutely. Balancing a game around E sports is like designing a country around d only the rich. A massive majority of the playerbase will never have to play like an E sports pro player, so balancing around the pro scene is a recipe for disaster. Also it makes a game more sweaty and can make games more stressful in general, which kills the purpose we play video games: to have fun. I enjoy casually playing video games over sweating 9/10 times and playing a game where everyone sweats their butt's off all the time is just not fun. It's my main problem with OW. My main problem isn't with the balancing, overpowered heroes, overpriced skins, etc. It's that a lot of the time I can't just play OW for fun because you need to try really hard most of the time. Quick play is essentially competitive without a rank and whenever I play tank or DPS I fear for getting flamed for not having a big number of the score board (even though it doesn't show a lot and can be misleading) or for not doing whatever a teammate wants.
Your other videos give great insight and display your peak observational skills most of the time. This video just outed you as being bad at tank and support
@@pinnacleexpress420That's kinds true but tanks or support not being fun? Bro lots of players have fun not getting kills. And many supports and tanks can out damage the damage role. Seriously there are way more clips of Jeff players team killing with an ult compared to someone like Iron Man or the Punisher.
@@pinnacleexpress420 The freedom thing never really changed in OW - it's just your average player is much better at the game now than when it released (what an unexpected result!), so to actually win more you have to use more effective strategies. And you can still win with shitter heroes and whatnot, it just takes a lot more skill and coordination. Sure, balancing has been and is an issue, but honestly I don't even mind poor balancing these days because it's much more frequent. In OW1 we got a balance patch like once every two-three months, metas could be entirely unchanging for half a year. Nowadays at least things don't tend to stay OP (or at least the same level of OP) for too long, even if they still don't really know what to do with tank balance, it's still in a far better spot than it used to be, in my opinion anyway
if you cant be bothered to take 10-12 seconds to look at the enemy team's builds in Deadlock while you're ALREADY DEAD and not doing anything anyways.. then you probably shouldn't play it tbh
@@spiderjerusalem8505 bro it's going 20k strong in a fucking open alpha, I'm planning to pick it up once it leaves Alpha, and I imagine there are many others feeling similarly.
Yeah Deadlock fundamentally embraces having a strategy layer, rather than the constant tactical layer of other Hero Shooters. It honestly reminds me of the take that Noita is a bad wizard game because it’s easy to blow yourself up, even though like half the fun of being a wizard is working around that risk.
I agree, but this works in something like League of Legends because the items have very distinct looks (even by tier, the higher price the more detailed the item gets). Here it's just coloured squares mostly, way harder for a new player to learn
@@Kulei666 And those colored squares are color coded to the type of buff they mainly provide as well as having extremely clear-cut naming conventions like : "bullet lifesteal", "point blank", "knockdown", "extra charge", "fortitude", "silencer" "debuff remover" ect Even the few Items that don't follow those naming conventions and are instead more flavorful are most often tied to items with more complex functions I admit that it took me a while to get a vague understanding of what each item does when starting off, but it's nowhere near as obtuse or difficult as some make it out to be, and I say this as someone with a adhd-infused learning disability If even I can gain a surface level understanding of what each items does, I choose to believe anyone willing can do so
I think the issue is very simple. Most people who play hero shooters like team games. You want a game where you can play without interacting with your team and have fun. I honestly think you'd enjoy shooters like cod or battlefield or even battlebit or something
As someone who played through the whole life cycle of overwatch (dropping it shortly after OW2s release) I'm honestly kinda confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't align with my experience whatsoever. I found they kept buffing/nerfing/reworking heroes until they were all (supposedly) equally as viable in every situation which ruined OWs unique identity/gameplay of having specific heroes which were really good at specific things. For example there used to be a whole defensive dps category which was later removed. These changes eventually made the meta a lot more boring because you always needed to choose the best heroes in each role at the meta strategy instead of being able to come up with unique ways to play that required different heroes. Eventually people stopped wanting to play support/tank because at least the dps role had far more heroes to choose from, making it slightly less monotonous. The increase in dps players then ruined the game for everyone because it was a constant fight to play the role, leaving the few support/tank main left frustrated. Role queue was then a band-aid fix for this but it didn't cause any issues itself. It did work really well for a while as it incentivised people to play other roles again as they had shorter queue times but obviously it didn't solve the whole heap of bad gameplay issues previously introduced. Once open queue was reintroduced competitively it was clear no one missed it as it never had anywhere near the same playerbase. The less said about the OW2 changes the better though.
The reason why Overwatch roles are so unique now is because of Brigitte. She was released as someone who could tank, damage, AND heal. In Overwatch history, she has had several dozen nerfs in mostly the tank and damage aspects (with her heals getting* reworks). To a lesser amount, the same could be said about Roadhog during season 2 of OW2 and Reaper during goats meta in low ranks. While the homogeny of role aspects seems nice for the player base, in practice, those were some of the worst times for Overwatch and created a lot of discourse in the community. Perhaps if every character was like that, it'd work, but current testing suggests otherwise.
yeah but he at least acknowledged this. I guess its fair crisisism from someone who hasn't played mobas and isn't willing to learn more than "this hero does these 3 things"
@arkhanok6329 honestly Jay feels like someone that only plays *shooters* rather than hero shooters, which are FPS games that take elements from strategic cames like MOBAs. He'll have a much better time playing CoD if all he thinks are kill and shoot...
I mean, the man's taste in wizard games is about fast-paced tactical combat with stuff arranged on the fly, as opposed to any actual wizarding, so it's not unexpected.
@arkhanok6329 If you recognize your opinion has a weak foundation and biased, then why include it in the video then? It doesn't add anything. It's just a dude who doesn't know how to play a game rambling about said game.
As a Loki main I think his dps with his clones is disgustingly high. And his attacks all heal, the clones create healing areas when he does, and his ult let's him become spy from TF2 if he had a readily charged nuke (ult) up his sleeve. So I don't think he needs any buffs
Dunkey was right about role queue, but what you paraphrased from him might be his biggest nothing burger take yet. Did he give any examples? How do you make a character feel overpowered even when it’s not? That can only work if people are new to a game
@@riahimed3400 That’s a just a noob stomper character. Spy can still one shot, but it requires more effort to do the same as the other classes. That’s not the illusion of being overpowered because depending on your skill level, it’s just as difficult to get the same value
Having this bad of a take on tactical shooters is crazy, maybe it's too hard for a hero shooter player to understand the intricacies of in game economy and actual tactics, but that doesn't make the game bad
tactical shooters aren't bad, but they are boring. imagine dying to a pixel 200 feet away from you and having to wait an entire round for everyone else to die before loading into yet another round to repeat the cycle.
@ibrahimalee23 I understand your point, and it's true that they're super grind intensive and most people are not gonna like them, but he's going too far
I'm literally sitting here racking my brain where I know this song from and then boom, the first comment I see is this one. Mob Psycho 💯 My beloved indeed
I think the general public just enjoys hero shooters the newer they are. Not because they are new but because people dont know the dominate strategies. Once people figure this game out, the same complaints will show up. The reason you felt put in a box wasnt fully due to role lock, but the player base wanting to win and "solving" the game.
GW2 was absolutely amazing, one of my most favourite games of all time. Amazing PvP and PvE as well as all the cool stuff to discover in the map, including the secret characters.
Its so odd to see people complain about design for women in media. I understand that sexualizing women is an issue, but not every woman who isn’t entirely covered is “objectifying”, they can just be…women who look good. Along with that, the idea of their bodies bothering people is kinda toxic cuz they still see those aspects as “sexual” and not just apart of the human body. It all just feels like “I’m 7’8” and love women’s rights 🥰” stuff.
6:43 deadlock is a moba for god's sake. You are supposed to check what the enemy is building over and over, check all the skills in the game and a million other things that can give you vantage just for knowing. This is how every single moba works, and this is why they have such a massive learning curve
It's not even something you have to check that often. If you're dead, you have all the time in the world to check the enemy inventory. Also, if an enemy starts going for a build early, chances are that they're sticking to that build for the rest of the game
That’s half of the fun of deadlock Figuring out the best way of everything How to abuse movements When to reload at the right time Which hero is perfect to which hero What build can make a hero more powerful and interesting It’s still has the hero shooter elements But it’s a moba first
Right? I really enjoy playing it and he put it off only because it was anime and characters to him seemed unrecognizable in what their kits are based on their design.
@@vikramgogoi3621an easy counter point would be any other tactical game.. for example r6s. You wouldnt expect to know all the different kits based on appearance of the character, thats not how things work 😂
@@nelvc7014 You would know their special abilities in R6S. Same for Valorant. Also any person who uses laughing emojis or "lol" while making a point has already lost that argument.
@@vikramgogoi3621 wait what? How would you know jett's kit from her appearance? How would you know mozzie captures drones from his aussie appearance? How would you know jackal tracks footprints? From his tactical headvisor 😂 youre right i "lost" the argument because i found your point amusing, not to say im not trying to see where youre coming from. Genuinely unless im absolutely clueless do enlighten me when you say you "would know their special abilities" from said appearance
i want justice for strinova, he didnt even go past the character designs when judging the game, and still put it down in D tier. give me more, better reasons and i'll be happy.
@@TheStellarJaythey’re talking about the healthcare CEO assassination, since that’s what their mind goes to when they hear of shooters. The flaw with this is assuming anyone would think of the healthcare CEO as a hero
Bringing Thor as an example for a tank in Rivals is kinda dumb. The only reason a charecter like Dr. Strange is concidered a "tank" is because he has a shield and decent hp. The dude has good damage, or at least good enough to beat most of the dps heroes in a 1v1, the ability to fly, and his iconic portal, an ability that can basically do everything if used right.
In defense of marvel rivals tanks, they can be fun if you don’t play them like ordinary tanks. If you play him right Thor can be an unkillable close range brawler with better mobility than some dps. Also that clip you showed of his ult had the enemy zen ult going on
In some aspects Tanks do just soak damage, but they all have secondary rolse that are unique. Peni Guards site, Cap sits on site and refuses to yield by being impossible to hit, Groot changes the battlefield to suit his team etc etc
Bro…just play cod or battlefield lol. You want a game where theres no distinction between roles, what are you doing in a team-oriented class-based shooters
Honestly, I disagree on what you said about Marvel Rival's tanks. I've had a blast as Magneto, and I don't see not getting kills as a problem so long as I'm being this big, hulking presence that people wanna take down first
say anything about strinova other than the character design, which even if it is "souless" they are still distinguishable at a glance in game. cant just throw it to the bottom of the tier list with no explination.
Seriously, it contradicts his own ideas. "They have to be recognizable at a glance...wait no not like that skirts are for hookers" Not to mention the game is barely a hero shooter; there's literally one "healer" and she's a sniper. Literally every character can just carry a healing grenade. There are no tanks. I don't think he played a lot of it, if at all.
Yeah, it just feels like he's giving shade for attention because people hate "gooner" games. Strinova fundamentally is a very good game with a unique mechanic that he doesn't even mention (It's the stringify mechanic that turns you into paper or stick to walls) which allows for very unique gunfights and movement. I can instantly recognise which opponent is who, even when they're scanned and you only see a shioullette.
My school had texas toast and that shit was just white bread. I gotta go find some actual stuff cuz like it was literally just like mildly buttered and slightly toasted white bread
Genuinely, the tanks and supports in rivals are just as fun if not more so than the dps. On launch, it was teams of one tank and one support, and four dps. Since then, it has genuinely evened out to having most games with 2-2-2, with tank and support being locked in first most of the time (hell, 3 tanks or 3 supports is very common)
I went back and played marvel rivals tanks for about 5 hours straight yesterday. I have come to the conclusion that I'm pretty stupid and most of what I said in the marvels section was wrong lol.
Check out the REDMAGIC 10 Pro here: bit.ly/4120ImB
But I'm allergic to milk :(
i seen all my favorite yts promote redmagic cant wait for a video in 2 years exposing it
what do you think of the re-release of gigantic?
Wow, that’s a lot for some crappy mobile games.
@@166tman5emulation bro
Jay has an abusive relationship with the state of gaming right now, and instead of going to therapy, he runs a TH-cam channel.
A problem shared is a problem halved. By sharing his problems with 316,000 people, Jay has reduced his problem to 1/(2^316000) of the size it originally was.
Truly a genius
Therapy is a scam anyway.
@@BananaWasTaken I mean it only had 113464 views. So 1/(2^Views) or 1/2(2^impressions) which should be something like 50x to 10x the views.
lol
Reviewing a game ignorantly because you never genuinely played it so that you can make a clickbait ragebait video? Sounds about right.
This man has never solo carried a game as Doctor Strange and it shows
Frrr he is my goat and I hope they never nerf him 🙏
I was like bro never played Doctor strange properly when he said Tanks are just damage sponge
Holy man doctor strange is the only reason I dont wipe enemies half the time, that shield is fucking wild.
@@DodgeThatAttack sorry, but there is no way they're not nerfing him sooner or later 😆
What else do you expect from a liberal TH-camr OTHER than to be bad at games and have it be obvious while trying their best to NOT make it obvious that it’s a skill issue?
Deadlock is fundamentally a MOBA with hero shooter mechanics. You're expecting a hero shooter with MOBA mechanics instead, and becoming disappointed. The whole appeal of Dota in its inception was literally that anything can work. It's part of the genre.
I think he pretty much knows that. But his point is that while it works in MOBA it doesn't work as well in a Game like Deadlock (wich is esentially a Hero Shooter with MOBA rules, but for the topic in question is a Hero Shooter nontheless)
also one quick press of tab can show you everyone's builds so you can have an idea of what to expect. Someone complaining about Dynamo being DPS in Deadlock has never suffered through SMITE's egregious tank meta.
Why doesnt it work? @@KitsuneFaroe
@@KitsuneFaroe It's not "essentially" a hero shooter at all, it's a MOBA through and through
@@deannotcool Literally, like, it's an action camera MOBA
Just because you can select a character and have a gun doesn't mean it's a hero shooter, and if it does we need to add a lot to the roster
Deadlock is what happens if you take SMITE, give them guns, and make the characters spring loaded
Wait . Did he REMOVE a part of the video because he was being roasted because of it ?! I see time-stamp and comments of a non-existent skill-issue on Tank in Marvels Rivals, where is it ?!
it seems, since some timestamps are longer than the video itself. Also the pined comment
He did
Yeah, i noticed that as well when the video suddenly ended. Kinda undermines much of the video tbh.
mans can't handle the backlash for his trash takes
@raphm3236 thats wild
Who would've thought taht tank and support dont work well if all you're doing is trying to be a dps gremlin.
I mean even then, if it's not a skill issue you can still do it lmao
@@abbadox315Yeah. Tanks are meant to make space a lot of the time, and one way to do that is to chase enemies to make them run away from objectives and using damage mitigation to stay alive, which you will probably be doing by default even if all you are doing IS killing. As long as you don't hide behind your squishier teammates, chasing kills as a tank is totally feasible.
Bro remembered he has bills to pay
Bro remembered it’s December on youtube
Rents due
Bill's on his face.
Because he's a bird😑
Thought he was sponsored by those beds before the red magic one.
Yeah frfr bro ong frfr no cap bro 💯😎
They beating your ass in the comments 😭😭
Rightfully so😌
Cuz he sucks
And this is another time
It's like he just posted a video to meet his end. His takes are hilariously bad
It's good for the algorithm
I am 2 days late on this video, but I am not even out of the overwatch section in this video, im about to hit minute 4...and he has said like 20 incorrect things already. Holy hell of takes. This is as incorrect as a person can be regarding their opinion.
Hard disagree on your take on Rivals vanguards. I've had plenty of fun playing as Peni and Thor. I hate to be that guy but I think your dissatisfaction in regards to that aspect is a skill issue.
Kinda agree, Thor's awesome
in the thor clip he shows, he ults on a luna snow ult and then proceeds to complain that he didn't get a kill
@@longshlongertin4531 and to be fair, Thor is the anomaly being the vanguard with the worst ult which is easy to dodge/interrupt and doesn't even one-shot to compensate.
@@gabrielpraslin9576 Yeah Thor's ult sucks. I don't think I've ever eliminated a single character with it.
Peni's ult doesn't kill much but it's basically the ultimate space-denier because running around spamming left and right click lets you completely hog the space uncontested unless you let a Scarlet Witch ult or similar one-shot you. It's back-off-from-the-capture-point-payload-whatever: the move.
@@longshlongertin4531 Didn't even notice that. Good catch.
The deadlock take is an insane skill issue I'm not even being mean
Fuck it I'll be mean cause honestly this entire video was "waaaaaaaaaaaaaa I can't mindlessly shit on people waaaaaaaaaa" DPS gremlin skill issue cope.
"unless I check his inventory every 5 seconds"... yeah. that's what you're supposed to do it's a fucking moba
@@robinhoward7408 Bro just confused Moba with shooter element with a shooter with moba elements which is more close to paladins and Strinova than anything.
It doesnt even take long to understand that dynamo allmost allways builds refresher aswell.
Bro edited out his horrendous takes
Literally everyone is hating on you for being a DPS gremlin already so I’m not even gonna rant I’m just gonna agree with them
Not just that, i'm also hating on him for "valorant bad" -> "strinova is anime valorant" -> "strinova bad"
He doesnt know Groot's walls deal damage
@@alies-Valorant is definitely not great, even by tactical shooter standards.
Overpriced skins, underwhelming ultimates and half the roster just re using csgo grenades as abilities, plus every map besides one ooks straight out of a late xbox early xbox 360 cod halo editor with a faint shell shade that makes the characters look worst by proxy.
Siege is legions better then valorant and ive played about 100 hours of both of them and csgo.
@@jessewilliams3166 yeah, that's exactly why i hate when people label Strinova as a bad Valorant knock-off, like if Valorant was an outstanding game without any flaws
"oh he's gonna talk about rivals"
"Oh he's a DPS gremlin"
"Oh it's just a setup?"
I agree this video was such a W until that I have more fun on dr strange and mantis than I do ALMOST any other dps
Peni is great... when you have a decent team around her. Since she's basically a trap master she needs people around her good enough to make space to set up those traps
@@ShinigamiSparda Most of the more skill based characters in Rivals are great if you have a team that is able to work together and do their role. I'm starting to think that the star scoring for each character is basically a meter of how good you can be without needing any sort of cooperation.
Playing Loki is genuinely more fun to me than the DPS characters I play (Winter Soldier, Star-Lord), because of the sheer Loony Tunes shenanigans he has access to. Rivals makes every character unique to play, so you really feel like you are playing a completely different game when you play different characters.
@@elijahfrancisco6700 As a main tank and newly converted Mantis enjoyer. I just agreed.
Ok
I know youre joking but like, its worth mentioning to people, all those scantily clad outfits in Marvel Rivals are comic accurate with a lil tag stating which comic theyre from, thats not marketing to gooners, its marketing to gooners AND comic nerds
Scantily clad outfits have been around in games for an uncomfortably long time
@@Mr.Brothybear who cares?
@@Mr.Brothybear”Uncomfortably”
You might be uncomfortable looking at attractive characters, but speak for yourself.
comic nerds ARE gooners
@@Mr.Brothybear
“Omg I’m sooooo uncomfortable around fictional attractive women!1!1!1 😭😭😭😭”
Bro, you can just press Tab in Deadlock and you can see everyone's items. The enemy doesn't even need to be in your line of sight for you to see his current items. They even have a sort of bars that show what every player is building for, like more physical damage, health or magic.
It's not even a game's mechanic, it's just a button that you should press sometimes
> the state of hero shooters
> deadlock
This is like making a “the state of mobas” video and putting in paladins
This man has NOT tried the Dr. Strange portal tomfoolery yet and it shows.
Im surprised more people dont talk about it, it's underrated as hell
I tried playing Doc and tbh he just doesn’t feel right to me.
Not to say I don’t think he’s cool and all that, but it’s kind of why I very much prefer Venom or even my girl Peni if it comes down to tanks, Peni especially.
@@justaguyonyoutube4592That just sounds like a playstyle preference. No wrong, just maybe he's not for you.
@@dumblockdubbed2455I mean surely people will get wise after a while.
Lmao why
Youre definitely playing tanks in rivals incorrectly. Tanks and supports deal a ton of damage, and you can play thor, hulk, and captain america like venom and dive the backline to execute supports and dps. I feel like its the only game to get it right, but people steer clear of the role because of the preconceived notion of whats generally expected from tanks and supports. Everybody wants to feel like the main character, and they think you get it through dps
Most of the dps champs are also easier than non-venom tanks imo. Punisher, Moon Knight, Starlord, Hela, Iron Fist, Scarlet Witch, etc are really easy to rack up kills with even if you're bad (particularly in quickplay and low elo). This doesn't apply to more difficult heroes like Black Panther or Spider-Man obviously, but it's definitely the majority of dps roles.
Yeah honestly it's still insane to me how difficult it is to actually duel a Mantis or Luna Snow who can actually hit you with all of their attacks, Rocket has a big ass gun that isn't for show, Loki is this weird secondary healer you have to kill like 6 times in order to actually kill him (lore accurate), Jeff is Jeff and Warlock exists I guess. Warlock sucks ass and noone can refute this fact because nobody plays him.
@suspecm6316 warlock slander shall not be tolerated. this character can oneshot squishies, revive his entire team, and heal uhhh pretty decently i guess. if played optimally he's fantastic, but like you said, nobody plays him :(
@@suspecm6316 I run into warlocks semi frequently and that soul bond is no joke, a good Adam warlock makes their team almost unable to die
@@baconsir1159true, its easier, but dps is easier than tank like kindergarten math is to 5th grade math; both are easy if decide to use more than one of your brain cells (not even all of them, just a couple)
The tank thing is kind of a skill diff tbh, tanks are pretty good in this game I don't know why more people don't try them out. Feels like people are coming in with assumptions from Overwatch
Tanks feel bad to play. Would all be more popular if they got tweaked to not have insanely long cooldowns, clunky controls and satisfying skill progression.
A ton of tanks function like OW Sigma, but without the satisfaction of his rock ability, leaving a dude that just stands there and sure does a lot of damage, but it's not satisfying.
@@BlueDragon1504long cooldowns? Which tanks specifically have "insanely long cooldowns"?
Proly complayning bout dr. Strange portal
@nelvc7014 Strange flight is on 15 seconds, Maelstrum 8, Hulk has 8-15 seconds on literally all his abilities but jump, Magneto has bubble at 8 seconds and shield on 15, Cap has slam and bash both on 12 seconds, other tanks don't have their CDs on the wiki so I can't be bothered to check, but they also have long CD's.
Literally the only tank that doesn't is Thor and he can only play the game every two seconds.
@randomweeb7819 Strange portal is basically a second ult, so I don't count it.
This video gives great insight into the mind of the 5th player insta locking dps in open queue.
Just from watching your penni parker gameplay I can safely say you have absolutely no idea what you're doing. Tank and healers are extremely fun to play and offer a good variety in playstyle. Penni is about controlling an area with her bomb and bug web whereas Venom is about diving in to the enemy and swinging around. Most tanks have a different playstyle and way of fighting. Goes for healers aswell. Mantis is super strong in a fight whereas someone like jeff is bad in a fight aside from his ultimate.
This entire video can just be condensed down to "I just want to play Magic CoD"
Absolutly
Nah he wants to play plants vs zombies and anything more complicated confuses his bird brain
@@C00T47 pvz gw2 is gas
it all comes back to magic games...
@@C00T47 you better not be insulting PVZ, that’s the best game ever made.
For the Marvel rivals part of the video, I disagree that tanks just soak up damage and aren't fun to play. Personally I love playing Thor and Doctor Strange. Sure yeah I'm a big target but when you have good teammates you can steamroll without dying a single time.
You can command and carry gamers with Strange or Hulk, and do a lot of dmg if you play Thor, everyone can be fun they are just a bit more difficult to play than the rest of the roles
They feel so impactful when everyone is aware of what their role is supposed to do rather than oonga boonga for kills, specially Dr. Strange.
Yeah this guy has no idea how to play tank or even what they do, like most people
@@thebigyes8482 My Rein main knowledge from OW 2 is pretty much carrying how I play as vanguard in this.
Dr Strange has so much damage potential and survivability that playing with a support allows me to shut off my brain and deal damage to enemies tank and overextended DPS, it's really fun and gets me 20k+ damage blocked (All of my cells have been renewed after a KOTH round)
15:48 This one statement makes me think you don't actually want to play hero shooters, you want to play CoD. I only like playing tank and support in rivals, I find all the DPS's to be eternally boring, which is why I choose to play these games instead of CoD or CSGO, because I get to play a different role than just kill the enemy team, I get to, you know, play as a team in a team based game where you play as a team and not just 6 people with guns.
agreed, theres nothing else like holding an objective with groot for the entire game because they cant get through your walls
No
Yep, it's all the same complaints about DPS mains not getting to mindlessly shit on worse players and team comps:
1. "One person can carry by flanking and wiping out the unaware enemy team with 0 game sense and 4 dps": of course he points out how much he likes Psylocke rn when she's busted and DPS only players also think the exact same thing instead of playing objectives so it's just them flanking Supports who have to save themselves coz their own DPS are nowhere to be seen (and complain about no heals). Teammates just exist draw aggro and heal me while I go in coz I'm smart and flank every time. Or conversely, my aim with Hawkeye and Hela are sick.
2. "People only want to get kills": then go play the TDM mode or other normal shooters instead of team based ones with varying abilities and objectives including longterm survival on control points. Some people like tanking and supporting in different types of games. MMORPGs must be terrible then coz they're so specialized I guess.
@@SpyDoTF2 real spy from tf2 always delivers bars from mars
Yeah I get why tanks aren't the most popular role but that doesn't mean they arent fun to play (they have like a 3:1 ratio with dps too which doesn't help) and actually support is really popular in this game. Mantis has nearly a 50% pick rate which is insanely high. Hulk also has the highest win rate in the game so saying he has nothing to do in the game is brain dead. The more I hear peoples opinions about rivals the more I realize no one knows what they are talking about 😂
Being critical, I find the logic used in the video strips the discussion of a lot of its nuance. I really dislike the use of a linear scale where an arbitrary zone is marked as a sweet spot, because it ignores the level at which a game is intended to be played at and the different systems that make an experience work. I think your criticism of deadlock definitely is the best example to highlight my first point, some games are not meant to be casual first games, and I think deadlocks design expects a certain amount of proficiency to be played as its intended. As someone that has played a lot of the game, its easy to hover over a player and immediately get a sense of what someone is building. This along side the high time to kill, creates opportunities to outplay and counter buy in a way that remedies the issues you encountered.
To be clear, I do not disagree that the level of freedom a game offers is important but its also important to discuss the ways that freedom works in tandem with the intentions of the developers and the systems of the game to successfully explain why some experiences work and why others don't. Something that I think you are also aware of, and struggled to fit into your reasoning. TF2 offers the player an incredible amount of freedom, where the items used will entirely change the way you play a character, but you put it lower towards the center of the scale because of the characters readability. The game offers no less freedom because of its readability, this is your system struggling to explain and adjust for the nuance, instead arbitrarily categorizing something as less free to help fit the conventions established.
I only stress this because game design is incredibly hard, and the framework established in this video creates a false precedent that trivializes and poisons an already heated and tedious debate. I don't think you can boil game design down to a science, and I think this could have been a fun opportunity to discuss the genuinely unique and creative systems and tools games use to remedy the flaws and pitfalls other experiences fall into. Feel free to disagree, and I am most likely not entirely right here, but I think it goes towards explaining a lot of the anger and disagreement in the comments.
As a Peni Parker/Rocket main- Not everyone plays Hero shooters to get kills- I love playing support, and keeping friends alive, without focusing too much on my own kills- Or creating traps to stop enemy advances (Cough cough spider mines)
Deadlock is moba first and if you played dota2 this is how shit goes
Tbh that entire take was just bronze skill issue stuff.
Hard to argue with someone when there whole take is "not my cup of tea."
Deadlock is literally Dota 2 in 3rd person. Whoever compares it to LoL or freaking TF2 never touched Dota2 and don't understand how the game functions.
@Relhio yha your class matter for like the first 15 some minutes then every body start pulling shit out there asses
@@Relhio Dota 2 IS 3rd person you dolt. What it is NOT is a 3rd person shooter tower defense moba.
Yeah pretty much his complaint boils down to skill/experience issues or not liking the style of game. Having played several hundred hours you start to immediately recognize opposing build styles,
Tell me you don't know how to play Tanks or Supports without telling me you don't know how to play tanks or supports.
Mantis is the second most OP hero in the game, and Thor, Hulk, Strange are all very fun and unique (and can pop off) if you know what you're doing.
Also the biggest reason your Thor ult did nothing in the clip is because Luna ult was up
Yeah I'm a Thor main and often get most kills in a game in ranked lobbies, and he has a super unique play style of dashing around to get shields while disrupting enemy lines.
I just love playing support cause they’re fun, Loki is definitely my favorite rn
Peni is also a ton of fun and can stun most characters out of their ults if you're good at her web shot. Just using her as a mobile turret would, indeed, be boring but that's not what you're supposed to be doing.
To be fair, I honestly do feel like Thor ult is extremely underwhelming compared to the others. I feel like they either need to up the radius, increase the damage, make him cc immune, or make him crash down faster, because right now it requires insane setup to get anything out of it, and what you get is middling.
Honestly peni is probably the worst tank when it comes to soaking up damage. However her traps make up for it
I'm not sure why Deadlock was brought up here, it's explicitly a MOBA, not a hero shooter
"This moba is a bad hero shooter, because it's a moba."
Can't argue with that, I guess.
well you see, you can shoot in the game, and it does have a different cast of characters so therefore it must be a hero shooter
@@RewZesand then we get into the whole debacle on what defines a "hero shooter" and it just goes down hill (I'll still never consider TF2 one lmao)
@@zercakBut, how do you NOT see TF2 as a hero shooter? It is universally agreed upon to be one of if not THE BEST hero shooter ever.
This half-ass low effort video feels like a clickbait, u have horrible takes & opinions on a lot of things, which people are already disagreeing with u in the comment section. "People play these games to get kills" lol, then go play CoD or CSGO, I don't want my healers focusing on dps and doesn't heal my ass xD
Bro Thors ultimate is actually really good damage wise, you just happened to use it while Luna Snow activated her ultimate too😭 y’know the same ultimate that makes anyone in her radius practically unkillable for 10 seconds 💀
In the nicest way possible, this isn’t a dev issue, you just need to learn how to play properly.
Supports and Tanks are incredibly fun to play, if you only care about getting kills and not assisting the larger team, go play Call of Duty. It’s a TEAM game, believe it or not a good amount of players like me love the tactical aspect, much more than purely going for kill streaks.
* proceeds to get countered by strange, magneto, luna, mantis *
You don’t understand how happy I was to hear the words “garden warfare” in the hero shooter conversation, it’s my absolute favorite game on the planet
Yesss! Garden warfare 1 and 2 are amazing
Ong u nearly wet myself after hearing “gw zone”
One word, yes.
BOORRN AGAIN! 🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣
Absolutely. I wish that game got updates or we got GW3.
I main Adam warlock and I actually clap so hard. And pulling a comeback out of no where by reviving my entire team will always be satisfying
Yupperdo
Hey!
He’s like Mercy! (if she were actually a good healer with an actual good ULT.)
No one (who has ever played anything other than support) can ever convince me they don't have an intense urge to leave the game after the whole enemy team gets revived. Even single player rez is already extremely frustrating
@Kurell171
Buddy, so is mantis, Luna, Jeff, Hawkeye and Hela.
@Kurell171 the rez is balanced out by the fact everyone spawns in one VERY visible spot and only on 100 hp. With a bad positioned rez your team will immediately get cooked again
Hate to say it, you are just bad at rivals. Tanks aren't killing machines. They are meant to lead charges and hold for dps. Half of the requirements for playing tank well is just having good game sense. Thor isn't meant to charge face first into a counter attack, he needs to single off 1-2 players and kill them. He needs to work with his team. His ult gives good chip damage, which can be used to help your team when pushing. Venom is meant to play aggressively. his blue heals and swinging makes him great for hit and runs. Each tank plays a little different. To get max value, you need to learn the style and work with and around it. Having characters that take skill keeps the game from being a CoD with objectives.
Isn’t that literally his point? That taking damage for your team is your main goal and that isn’t done in a fun way?
@@zaxtonhong3958trust me, tanks can get a lot of kills if you play it right, Peni for example who I've been playing can absolutely shut down areas and bully out of position healers and dps and straight up snipe the backline with her primary fire and some well placed mines, thor can absolutely run in and get kills in the right set up. But roles are defined. Damage dealers do damage, tanks tank, healers heal. But there's definitely a fair amount of overlap because I as Peni can have 9k damage and 2k healing while getting 11k damage blocked (actual stats from one of my games)
Half the tanks in Rivals are actually just fat assassins. They put up big damage numbers and get plenty of kills most of the time while soaking up massive damage. Personally, while I acknowledge they're good and appreciate them on my team, I also just find them very boring and/or mechanically awkward to play as. The only one that somewhat interests me is Captain America but I have some kind of bug or something that makes it really awkward to use his super jump which frustrates me. It might be my keyboard or settings, idk.
I mean… often times The tanks in my games (including when I play them) get highest kills, damage dealt, and damage taken.
@@ElfireII you get a good hela or something and they will do more damage than the tanks, you just need to find the actually good players, unless it's a Dr strange, they'll probably always have highest daw
6:50 I will admit I play entirely too much deadlock, so this information is just ingrained by now anyway, but deadlock is probably the best moba for giving you vital information like this. Hold tab, and you can see what items people have leaned towards (gun damage, ability damage, or health). You can even hover individuals to check not only their items, but what abilities they've put points into. You made the point that it's a moba so all the stuff is gonna be more complicated than a regular hero shooter, and that's true. Deadlock is also probably one of the most inviting mobas because of the information it provides, and that's fascinating because it's still in Alpha too.
yeah you cant use a graph generated by a neural network as evidence and then immediately say "it agrees with me so im leaving it in"
he can because it’s his video. the best part is, if he wasn’t honest that it was AI generated you wouldn’t be complaining about it.
@KngMaxwell no shit he CAN, it's bad argumentation. and like, yeah? i can't complain about something I don't have knowledge of, so like what's your point. LOL
@@gerbderg my point being, this is a very unserious video about a certain genre of video game and you’re complaining about his source. like why care?
@@KngMaxwell because videos like these poison the marketplace of ideas, it's slop trying to pose as something else
If youre confused in Deadlock, it's honestly a skill issue - play a few more games and you'll get a better idea of what your opponents are capable of in a given moment.
Me personally, Deadlock leans too much into the MOBA aspect. I’m sure that crowd will love Deadlock though
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 well uh, its basically a 3rd person MOBA
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 that is because it's a moba
I believe you, but, and this is something that dude sadly failed to mention, Marvel Rivals legitimately does this absurdly well.
Deadlock is so much fun, so much freedom on what to do, it's the only game where even on top ranks you have that much freedom, let's see how it goes when it launches
Based on the comments, this video seems poorly researched…
Tanks are arguably the best role in every game it’s available, he’ll I’d argue some tanks in this work better than their overwatch equivalents by a huge mile.
Like it’s actually insane when people make it sound like tank is braindead or hard in game. Just actually know how to play the game and they literally carry every match.
It's not about them being good or bad, or easy or hard. It's about them being fun and interesting. Of course "fun" is subjective, but most people will tell you it's getting kills with impactful abilities or plays (or for free, if you're Hela).
In OW tanks and supports have by far the most impactful and unique cooldowns among all characters.
In Rivals the dps have ALL the fun abilities and their gameplay loops are just much more thought out. Flankers like Spiderman, Panther, Iron Fist, etc. have the most satisfying movement. Hela, Winter Soldier and Psylocke geht to clown on the entire lobby by the virtue of simply being better, Squirrel Girl gets random kills across the map, Hawk Eye is literally Hanzo with more stuff, they have flying Tracer ffs.
Meanwhile half the tanks have three different flavors of politely bonking you on the head, Dr. Shield and Magneto is just Sigma with less skill expression. Peni at least has interesting cooldowns and can even use them without waiting half the match for them to come back on and Venom is Hamster, but easier so he's bound to be somewhat fun.
And support is even worse in that regard imo. Cloak&Dagger at least have an interesting concept being two characters in one, and Mantis is fast and does insane damage, but her active abilities are really boring to use, Adam is a dps without the fun movement, Loki is a restricted Ying from Paladins, Luna's most fun ability is only available, when she doesn't do, well, ANYTHING, Racoon guy shoots, I guess and Jeff has his ult and being able to be immortal with well placed bubbles and smart use of his swim ability so that's a plus for once.
I know I didn't do some characters justice and they can be definitly fun to play, but most of their kits are just not as fun to use as most dps' ones.
And ontop of that we have more dps than tanks and supports combined so there is just much more variety in the dps category. Idk why they didn't learn that from Overwatch, but here we are again with twice the amount of characters for the most popular role.
Eh, I’d say supports will always be more important… since like 99% of the time you literally cannot win without them
@@badussywar8938 each role is equally important. You need to suck a lot to get that idea. It doesn't really matter which character serves that role, but someone has to do the job. Question is, if the game itself allows you to switch the role of your character in some way
@@fenix5fire lmao what? Rude for no reason. Support has and always will be the most important role on a team, with tanks slightly under them. Idk if you’re trying to cope for DPS mains, but DPS is far less important and there are DPSless teams that can function just fine
@@badussywar8938 you got me wrong. I meant that you probably can't feel it unless you completely failed in a match. Once you've started to search for a reason, you will slowly get closer to understanding that every role is important
Did the video get edited already? I see people talking about a section where he was playing tanks incorrectly but all I saw and heard was him talking about the female outfits like he was uncomfortable with them or something.
Yup
The isues you listed for Overwatch weren't mainly because of game changes, people got better and everyone plays more optimised. The classic mode by week 2 was run 2-2-2, or lose if you weren't just straight up significally better than ALL 6 enemies. You could easily just switch to Widow to dominate the lobby because she was overpowered. Hero choice wasn't so loose because of better design, it was because everyone was completely horrible at the game, hero design was actually more restrictive. Arguments like these always feel like they come from people who haven't actually been playing the game, they just miss when they had fun with it in 2016.
also people forget about GOATS meta or whatever it was called. wasn't it like 4 tanks 2 support and able to do insane amounts of damage.
@@kenneth_romero Yes in 2018 for 2 years until role queue released the most optimal play by far was to not pick a single DPS hero.
As the saying goes: "Leave it to the players to optimize the fun out of a game"
Hero design is the biggest problem Overwatch has.
So many have mind-numbing kits, and the devs are obsessed with mitigation as a form of defence, instead of just making characters have better offensive abilities to fend off attacks.
The second is basing a game on single objective game modes, which notoriously don’t work in PvP.
Eh, I disagree. Overwatch died by tedious nerfs to make the "perfect balance". Paladins still has a very active playerbase and is a textbook example of doing the opposite of what overwatch did. With the game being out as long as it has, skill doesn't have anything to do with it. Healers in paladins can fend of attacks and survive in a pinch as well as dish out decent damage. All while maintaining the freedom of choice and not being as limiting as blizzards overly micro managed shit soup of a game
deadlock isn't a hero shooter, it's a moba. For the complaint about not knowing what they're building into, if you press tab and hover over the player in game you can see their build and what items they have.
league of legends is better
imagine having the ability to read. Crazy.
@@carl5939LOL and Deadlock are trying to do different things.
Hard disagree on tanks (specifically peni parker) being unfun, her mines and self healing allows for alot of interesting strategy trying to pick the right places to block off and good choke points, maybe not fun for everyone but if youve got a strategy brain likeme shes a blast
The creative tanks with cool mechanics like Thor and Peni are so fun to learn
You also have to know when to push your advantage and move your web generator since it goes on cooldown for 5 seconds when you destroy it. If the enemy team gets wiped or pushed back strongly, it's time to advance - but not too far or it'll get destroyed the moment it drops before it has a chance to do anything. It's similar to an aggressive Engineer playstyle from TF2.
@PenitusVox exactly!
@@Lerbon_Janes I think that applies to all of them but Cap, and even he has the sprint and reflective shield. I guess also Magneto kind of, but the infinite health shields/bubbles can be pretty satisfying if used right
Peni is the most fun game character to date , i usually can solo tank with her while also having the most damage in the team
A daily reminder if anyone want to play deadlock: hero shooter =/= MOBA.
They're two different genres and Deadlock isn't a hero shooter at all when I saw the gameplay, it heavily emphasis on your build and a lot quick thinking of knowing the enemy's build to counter it. There's so much to MOBAs which would turn into a long essay, to sum it up, it's a steep learning curve and time investment which isn't noob friendly to beginners. Also in 6:51, please hit tab.
Lame take on anime styled stuff like Strinova. If you can't tell the characters apart, it's because you don't want to. Calling them hookers is some weird energy too.
I gotta disagree with your point on Marvel rivals. It might feel a little boring at first but as soon as you get the hang of a character they are super fun to play. At first I thought most of the supports are boring and just heal with different abilities, but once I started playing them I understood their abilities their play styles and I thought it was super cool. Adam Warlock seemed super weird and boring but he actually deals a lot of damage with his attacks, both regular and charge up. His abilities need coordination with your team which incentives you to be a team player. Other characters like Mantis who deals insane damage especially with her boost make her sometimes feel like a dps. Honestly after learning the different characters I hardly find boring ones.
I dont think anyone has found this game boring out of the gate. Ive literally reads hundreds or probably thousands of comments of players experience and first takes and this is literally the FIRST time Ive heard that lmao
Well tbf you should always have dmg boost on mantis. Its such a negligable upkeep with massive benefits
People who play hero shooters "just to get kills" are part of the problem. A team has many roles and if you can't play at least two of the three roles sufficiently you are a detriment to any team you're placed on.
i mean people who play hero shooters just to get kills fit into the "dps" role. It just depends on how you wanna do it. This guy is just coping but theres nothing wrong with playing hero shooters for cool kills
You have no idea how my nerd ass gets so upset when a casual cod player ask "who is iron man?" Get out 😂
@@MrLocazo212How is this related?
@@JazzRipHHYeah true but you gotta be more flexible than just thirsting for kills. You gotta protect your team or heal or something.
@@mariustan9275 I mean yeah (as DPS u can’t heal ofc) but you can often get cool kills and be a team player at the same time
Tanks absolutely do a ton of damage. Groot places walls down that augment his damage and shut down retreat routes (or cuts LoS off from supports), Magneto literally has an insane team-up with Scarlet Witch that absolutely destroys enemies if you consistently hit his slashes. Mantis does some stupid high damage for a support with no fall-off (though with a projectile). Peni can blow up people if they aren't careful and step into your webs with a nest nearby. Rocket has some scary damage if you're close and he's hitting most of his bullets.
no they don't
@@yellowtitan6040 yes, they do. sounds like a skill issue
@@yellowtitan6040 Assuming you're not rage baiting, why do you believe this? @pikachu790 just gave a bunch of great points against StellarJay's argument, what are the reasons to agree with StellarJay?
0:45 GARDEN WARFARE MENTIONED LETS GOOOOO!!!!
WOOOOO
If you press a special button the game literally shows you what items both your teammates and enemies bought. If you suffer in one area you can always buy an item to counter your enemies. Toxic bullets for example are very good against enemies that spec heavily in health regeneration. So what’s the issue???
15:07 imma be real, that just means you’re a shitty tank. Venom is fun as hell, hulk is fun as hell, dr strange is strong as hell, and I am Groot.
And how the hell are you gonna say their ults arent cool? Venom turns into a puddle of goop and bites the whole area with a giant toothy maw, and Hulk becomes Hulk^2 and can throw the enemy around like that one tik tok of the dude at working at subway hitting shit with the dough.
My first game as strange I got a ten player kill-streak and never looked back
Tbh I think this is the creator just enforcing his idea/definition of fun onto the role, many people would have a blast being in the front lines of battles helping their teammates by tanking shots for them while still being able to do decent damage themselves. That’s the whole point of roles, different playstyles for different players with different definitions of fun, that’s why I love playing Luna snow, she can move fast and her kit is basically 50/50 on support and individual character abilities which makes her fun since my only gameplan isn’t just sitting back and healing, I could also go on the aggressive and stall out fights for the team since I have decent dps and self healing, my point being the support role doesn’t just feel like relying on teammates while you sit back and basically watch . Of course with marvel rivals being a new game it’s destined to have balancing issues but it’s nothing major, it truly feels as if every role is pretty balanced.
Agreed, I disagree with Jay too, seems like he's got a skill issue. Peni is an absolute unit if you know how to use her, Cap too
@weeabooproductions2196 Absolutely. I think it might be true for the majority, but not everyone plays games for kills. I personally don't mind soaking up damage or pumping out heals.
And penny's ult is literally run and kill everybody you see, the shear amount of tpks I did is just too much
You should have left marvel rivals out of this video because you clearly didn't know what you were talking about in regards to that game.
People got their opinions. I don’t hate rivals nor do I like it. Just not my type of game. Same could be said for him
@@heinzdoofenshmirtz2529 This does not apply when his opinion is biases and affected by the fact that he cannot play tanks correctly. Opinions are opinions but doesnt change the fact that some opinions are wrong
@ I’m a tank player, and i agreed with what he said
@@heinzdoofenshmirtz2529the fact that you agree with him also explains why your opinion on rivals is mehh, or your opinion in rivals explains why you agree with him. Either way theres a bias and discrepancy between how you both pay and the point of good support and tank
@ my opinion on it is that it’s a good game. What he said about tanks is true though, doesn’t mean ive got or anyone else has got bias towards the game. I play all kinds of styles but I don’t know what you mean by bias or whatever you’re talking about.
I would argue the lack of freedom in Overwatch stemmed from balancing issues. Of course, like someone else said here, naturally players will get better and optimize the game, but I think the GOATs meta is the prime example of this. They could not for the life of them figure out how to balance GOATs, so it became pretty much mandatory if you wanted to win against other people who are also running GOATs. I can't remember if this is my own conspiracy theory or if they've officially stated it, but I'm of the belief that Role Queue was created simply because they gave up on trying to balance GOATs, (since it was 3 healers 3 tanks) which further restricted player freedom.
On another note, I'm of the opinion that Overwatch might have fared better if they leaned more towards being casual rather than competitive, but we'll never know.
@@Julton I never played Overwatch, but your point of making the game more casual is 100% for me. I was interested, but I didn't have console or computer to play this when I was younger, but ass you said the competitive nature made it not as enticing for me to play. Doesn't also help that they had a loot-box system, but that is a whole other point.
@Julton Absolutely. Balancing a game around E sports is like designing a country around d only the rich. A massive majority of the playerbase will never have to play like an E sports pro player, so balancing around the pro scene is a recipe for disaster. Also it makes a game more sweaty and can make games more stressful in general, which kills the purpose we play video games: to have fun. I enjoy casually playing video games over sweating 9/10 times and playing a game where everyone sweats their butt's off all the time is just not fun. It's my main problem with OW. My main problem isn't with the balancing, overpowered heroes, overpriced skins, etc. It's that a lot of the time I can't just play OW for fun because you need to try really hard most of the time. Quick play is essentially competitive without a rank and whenever I play tank or DPS I fear for getting flamed for not having a big number of the score board (even though it doesn't show a lot and can be misleading) or for not doing whatever a teammate wants.
6:50 Press TAB?
edit: you dont know what you are talking about
Your other videos give great insight and display your peak observational skills most of the time. This video just outed you as being bad at tank and support
Nah bro the whole freedom vs forced playstyle thing held a lot of water and is definitely the main reason Overwatch is miserable
@@pinnacleexpress420That's kinds true but tanks or support not being fun? Bro lots of players have fun not getting kills. And many supports and tanks can out damage the damage role. Seriously there are way more clips of Jeff players team killing with an ult compared to someone like Iron Man or the Punisher.
@@pinnacleexpress420
The freedom thing never really changed in OW - it's just your average player is much better at the game now than when it released (what an unexpected result!), so to actually win more you have to use more effective strategies. And you can still win with shitter heroes and whatnot, it just takes a lot more skill and coordination.
Sure, balancing has been and is an issue, but honestly I don't even mind poor balancing these days because it's much more frequent. In OW1 we got a balance patch like once every two-three months, metas could be entirely unchanging for half a year. Nowadays at least things don't tend to stay OP (or at least the same level of OP) for too long, even if they still don't really know what to do with tank balance, it's still in a far better spot than it used to be, in my opinion anyway
@tuoritto were you playing season 1 and what was your peak rank
if you cant be bothered to take 10-12 seconds to look at the enemy team's builds in Deadlock while you're ALREADY DEAD and not doing anything anyways.. then you probably shouldn't play it tbh
Nobody should, to be honest, and it looks like no one will in the future :D
@@spiderjerusalem8505 bro it's going 20k strong in a fucking open alpha, I'm planning to pick it up once it leaves Alpha, and I imagine there are many others feeling similarly.
@@spiderjerusalem8505 It's still in Alpha. When Valve releases it, everybody will know.
@spiderjerusalem8505 ive never even played the game yet this reply still packs some oomph
@@spiderjerusalem8505 we will see, the game is already booming in PLAYTEST phase
nah for the Deadlock take just press tab, just press tab and look
great video, I love u
Yeah Deadlock fundamentally embraces having a strategy layer, rather than the constant tactical layer of other Hero Shooters. It honestly reminds me of the take that Noita is a bad wizard game because it’s easy to blow yourself up, even though like half the fun of being a wizard is working around that risk.
I agree, but this works in something like League of Legends because the items have very distinct looks (even by tier, the higher price the more detailed the item gets). Here it's just coloured squares mostly, way harder for a new player to learn
@@Kulei666 And those colored squares are color coded to the type of buff they mainly provide as well as having extremely clear-cut naming conventions like : "bullet lifesteal", "point blank", "knockdown", "extra charge", "fortitude", "silencer" "debuff remover" ect
Even the few Items that don't follow those naming conventions and are instead more flavorful are most often tied to items with more complex functions
I admit that it took me a while to get a vague understanding of what each item does when starting off, but it's nowhere near as obtuse or difficult as some make it out to be, and I say this as someone with a adhd-infused learning disability
If even I can gain a surface level understanding of what each items does, I choose to believe anyone willing can do so
@@Kulei666hmmm my enemy just bought "Bullet lifesteal" I wonder what it does
I think the issue is very simple. Most people who play hero shooters like team games. You want a game where you can play without interacting with your team and have fun. I honestly think you'd enjoy shooters like cod or battlefield or even battlebit or something
Also no, if you didn’t have two tanks and two supports you would lose unless the enemy team was dogwater AND you had smurfs on your team. 😂
As someone who played through the whole life cycle of overwatch (dropping it shortly after OW2s release) I'm honestly kinda confused by what you're saying here because it doesn't align with my experience whatsoever. I found they kept buffing/nerfing/reworking heroes until they were all (supposedly) equally as viable in every situation which ruined OWs unique identity/gameplay of having specific heroes which were really good at specific things. For example there used to be a whole defensive dps category which was later removed. These changes eventually made the meta a lot more boring because you always needed to choose the best heroes in each role at the meta strategy instead of being able to come up with unique ways to play that required different heroes. Eventually people stopped wanting to play support/tank because at least the dps role had far more heroes to choose from, making it slightly less monotonous. The increase in dps players then ruined the game for everyone because it was a constant fight to play the role, leaving the few support/tank main left frustrated. Role queue was then a band-aid fix for this but it didn't cause any issues itself. It did work really well for a while as it incentivised people to play other roles again as they had shorter queue times but obviously it didn't solve the whole heap of bad gameplay issues previously introduced. Once open queue was reintroduced competitively it was clear no one missed it as it never had anywhere near the same playerbase. The less said about the OW2 changes the better though.
3:15 ew you used chatgpt to do your work
Or at least check chatgpt's work at the bare minimum. Don't use graphs if you don't know what's on them. This should be obvious.
"it supports my point so im keeping it"
The reason why Overwatch roles are so unique now is because of Brigitte. She was released as someone who could tank, damage, AND heal. In Overwatch history, she has had several dozen nerfs in mostly the tank and damage aspects (with her heals getting* reworks).
To a lesser amount, the same could be said about Roadhog during season 2 of OW2 and Reaper during goats meta in low ranks.
While the homogeny of role aspects seems nice for the player base, in practice, those were some of the worst times for Overwatch and created a lot of discourse in the community. Perhaps if every character was like that, it'd work, but current testing suggests otherwise.
Major skill issue at the deadlock part. "oh noes I have to pay attention to what people are building the game is asking too much of me!"
yeah but he at least acknowledged this. I guess its fair crisisism from someone who hasn't played mobas and isn't willing to learn more than "this hero does these 3 things"
@arkhanok6329 honestly Jay feels like someone that only plays *shooters* rather than hero shooters, which are FPS games that take elements from strategic cames like MOBAs. He'll have a much better time playing CoD if all he thinks are kill and shoot...
I mean, the man's taste in wizard games is about fast-paced tactical combat with stuff arranged on the fly, as opposed to any actual wizarding, so it's not unexpected.
Me when the moba game requires me to play it like a moba game 😱
@arkhanok6329 If you recognize your opinion has a weak foundation and biased, then why include it in the video then? It doesn't add anything. It's just a dude who doesn't know how to play a game rambling about said game.
As a Loki main I think his dps with his clones is disgustingly high. And his attacks all heal, the clones create healing areas when he does, and his ult let's him become spy from TF2 if he had a readily charged nuke (ult) up his sleeve. So I don't think he needs any buffs
15:04 DEADCOCK
Dunkey once said, the key to make any hero shooter game good is to make every character feel overpowered without them actually being overpowered
Dunkey was right about role queue, but what you paraphrased from him might be his biggest nothing burger take yet. Did he give any examples? How do you make a character feel overpowered even when it’s not? That can only work if people are new to a game
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 real, imagine pulling off a super difficult combo ultimate that does insane knockback, knowing that it only did like 2 damage
Dunkey might like deadlock then
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Spy from tf2
@@riahimed3400 That’s a just a noob stomper character. Spy can still one shot, but it requires more effort to do the same as the other classes. That’s not the illusion of being overpowered because depending on your skill level, it’s just as difficult to get the same value
14:49 The default Psylocke outfit in this game IS a comic book counterpart. (Demon Days, from 2021)
Not to mention there’s the most well-known “gooner” comic book outfit available to get as an optional skin for her lmao
GW2 mentioned.
I'm happy
GW2 = Guild wars 2
The first game was better; change my mind.
@@tzaphkielconficturus7136first game had better maps overall imo but the sequel was better in pretty much every other way imo
@andresonofgolotaward3386 It had some cool stuff, but they ruined the alien sunflower. The art/aesthetics were also much cooler in 1.
Having this bad of a take on tactical shooters is crazy, maybe it's too hard for a hero shooter player to understand the intricacies of in game economy and actual tactics, but that doesn't make the game bad
tactical shooters aren't bad, but they are boring.
imagine dying to a pixel 200 feet away from you and having to wait an entire round for everyone else to die before loading into yet another round to repeat the cycle.
@ibrahimalee23 I understand your point, and it's true that they're super grind intensive and most people are not gonna like them, but he's going too far
@@jhonnjenkins probably, i havent gotten to that part of the video.
probably why this video has 2k dislikes
0:16 Mob psycho my beloved
Huh, where?
I'm literally sitting here racking my brain where I know this song from and then boom, the first comment I see is this one. Mob Psycho 💯
My beloved indeed
I think the general public just enjoys hero shooters the newer they are. Not because they are new but because people dont know the dominate strategies. Once people figure this game out, the same complaints will show up. The reason you felt put in a box wasnt fully due to role lock, but the player base wanting to win and "solving" the game.
15:05 - I'm not usually that guy, but I legitimately think this is a skill issue
15:07 I actually think tank is really fun, I main Thor and strange and both of them have really good damage and a lot of variance in play style
I like punching Things, I play hulk 👍 10/10 goty
Did he cut this part of the video out? Cuz he says nothing on tanks
@@WORTH-IT-MANlooks like he did lmao. There was a whole bit about how the game is only fun if you play dps
@@WORTH-IT-MAN he actually added an update comment about it
@@WORTH-IT-MANlmao based
GW2 was absolutely amazing, one of my most favourite games of all time.
Amazing PvP and PvE as well as all the cool stuff to discover in the map, including the secret characters.
why are you so scared of attractive women that you list their existence as a downside and expect people to agree?
Its so odd to see people complain about design for women in media. I understand that sexualizing women is an issue, but not every woman who isn’t entirely covered is “objectifying”, they can just be…women who look good. Along with that, the idea of their bodies bothering people is kinda toxic cuz they still see those aspects as “sexual” and not just apart of the human body. It all just feels like “I’m 7’8” and love women’s rights 🥰” stuff.
Bro thought he cooked, but he blew the kitchen up🗣️🗣️🗣️🤯😭
unfunny
I miss the Garden Warfare Series.
Me too, bro, me too…
@@justaguyonyoutube4592 it aint dead brother
@@Prexry Garden Warfare is dead. Garden Warfare 2 is unfortunately still parading around its decaying corpse. It's oddly fitting.
@@PrexryTechnically but I really wish we got updates.
@mariustan9275 there’s hope. PvZ Heroes just got a balance patch
I have no problem with Rivals tanks scoring kills. Dr Strange is a monster.
This guy actually thinks that the golden days was when you got 5 dps on team and that did not matter XD
6:43 deadlock is a moba for god's sake. You are supposed to check what the enemy is building over and over, check all the skills in the game and a million other things that can give you vantage just for knowing. This is how every single moba works, and this is why they have such a massive learning curve
It's not even something you have to check that often. If you're dead, you have all the time in the world to check the enemy inventory. Also, if an enemy starts going for a build early, chances are that they're sticking to that build for the rest of the game
That’s half of the fun of deadlock
Figuring out the best way of everything
How to abuse movements
When to reload at the right time
Which hero is perfect to which hero
What build can make a hero more powerful and interesting
It’s still has the hero shooter elements
But it’s a moba first
the strinova slander was absolutely unprecedented
Right? I really enjoy playing it and he put it off only because it was anime and characters to him seemed unrecognizable in what their kits are based on their design.
@@hiranarisa6080 that's a valid point. information is important in tactical shooters
@@vikramgogoi3621an easy counter point would be any other tactical game.. for example r6s. You wouldnt expect to know all the different kits based on appearance of the character, thats not how things work 😂
@@nelvc7014 You would know their special abilities in R6S. Same for Valorant.
Also any person who uses laughing emojis or "lol" while making a point has already lost that argument.
@@vikramgogoi3621 wait what? How would you know jett's kit from her appearance? How would you know mozzie captures drones from his aussie appearance? How would you know jackal tracks footprints? From his tactical headvisor 😂 youre right i "lost" the argument because i found your point amusing, not to say im not trying to see where youre coming from. Genuinely unless im absolutely clueless do enlighten me when you say you "would know their special abilities" from said appearance
16:26 my man got the DeadCock logo
i want justice for strinova, he didnt even go past the character designs when judging the game, and still put it down in D tier. give me more, better reasons and i'll be happy.
Fr
yea its a solid game, the design is just a plus
I agree I have been playing it I find it fun to play the anime girls do add something to game but I like it for more then this that
we cant let the strinova hate slide
That Alaskan bed tangent had me boggled for a minute, not gonna lie.
I saw the title of the video come up in my notifications and assumed this was going to be about Luigi. 😂
what
@@TheStellarJay fair response
That's wild
we’re cooked
@@TheStellarJaythey’re talking about the healthcare CEO assassination, since that’s what their mind goes to when they hear of shooters.
The flaw with this is assuming anyone would think of the healthcare CEO as a hero
0:52 garden warfare reference, peak game
YES
Bringing Thor as an example for a tank in Rivals is kinda dumb. The only reason a charecter like Dr. Strange is concidered a "tank" is because he has a shield and decent hp. The dude has good damage, or at least good enough to beat most of the dps heroes in a 1v1, the ability to fly, and his iconic portal, an ability that can basically do everything if used right.
Pvz garden warfare, the best shooter that ever existed
Edit: deadlock is still in development, it's not even in early access. So cut some slack on it.
**looks at youtube feeds and almost chokes on drink** Oh my god, you're still alive!
In defense of marvel rivals tanks, they can be fun if you don’t play them like ordinary tanks. If you play him right Thor can be an unkillable close range brawler with better mobility than some dps. Also that clip you showed of his ult had the enemy zen ult going on
I concur. Hulk is bar none the most fun I have ever had playing a tank class.
@@612minigun yeah hulk is crazy too
80% horrible takes, 20% ad - great video @theStellarJay
In some aspects Tanks do just soak damage, but they all have secondary rolse that are unique. Peni Guards site, Cap sits on site and refuses to yield by being impossible to hit, Groot changes the battlefield to suit his team etc etc
Bro…just play cod or battlefield lol. You want a game where theres no distinction between roles, what are you doing in a team-oriented class-based shooters
Battlefield? Every Battlefield (apart from BF2042) has clear class distinctions with Assault, Medic, Support, Scout, etc
in Deadlock you can see the enemy build by hovering over their character icon
Honestly, I disagree on what you said about Marvel Rival's tanks. I've had a blast as Magneto, and I don't see not getting kills as a problem so long as I'm being this big, hulking presence that people wanna take down first
say anything about strinova other than the character design, which even if it is "souless" they are still distinguishable at a glance in game. cant just throw it to the bottom of the tier list with no explination.
Agreed!!
Seriously, it contradicts his own ideas.
"They have to be recognizable at a glance...wait no not like that skirts are for hookers"
Not to mention the game is barely a hero shooter; there's literally one "healer" and she's a sniper. Literally every character can just carry a healing grenade. There are no tanks. I don't think he played a lot of it, if at all.
Yeah, it just feels like he's giving shade for attention because people hate "gooner" games. Strinova fundamentally is a very good game with a unique mechanic that he doesn't even mention (It's the stringify mechanic that turns you into paper or stick to walls) which allows for very unique gunfights and movement. I can instantly recognise which opponent is who, even when they're scanned and you only see a shioullette.
"No but anime bad tho"
@@KekoBass its a hero shooter if valorant is a hero shooter...
7:06 please tell me you dont actually call figting games hero based PLEASE
"Americans don't have food" Texas toast, philly cheese steak, po' boys, gumbo, jambalaya, orange chicken, fortune cookies and banana's foster?
Every food from Louisiana and Boston. Also pizza isn’t Italian because tomatoes come from the US. Also BBQ in general and doughnuts.
Cheesesteaks are from Philly, pal
@@buckybuck8783that’s what they are called, pal
@@THEONETRUEOVERLORD didn't tomatoes come from Mexico
My school had texas toast and that shit was just white bread. I gotta go find some actual stuff cuz like it was literally just like mildly buttered and slightly toasted white bread
Genuinely, the tanks and supports in rivals are just as fun if not more so than the dps. On launch, it was teams of one tank and one support, and four dps. Since then, it has genuinely evened out to having most games with 2-2-2, with tank and support being locked in first most of the time (hell, 3 tanks or 3 supports is very common)
Rivals at A is a crime