Revisiting the Time Mark Messier Became a Canuck
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2021
- Yes, these were dark times for the Canucks, the darkest they have had in my opinion.
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why would you remind us....his name might as well be voldemort in Vancouver
People in Vancouver have no problem saying his name, they just put a "Fuck" before it
Messier for prime minister 💪💪💪
This comment/ this feeling... ever get that feeling that somehow, that just maybe, the fanbase is a little overwrought? Maybe it shares part of the blame?
Don't blame Messier, blame the rest of the Canucks. Hell when Gretzky went to the Rangers, did he win any cups with them? Nope, because the Rangers sucked so much it dragged the great one down, same thing with Messier and the Canucks. Quit finding scapegoats for your problems and solve the actual problems
Mark Messier demonstrated tremendous leadership for every team* he played for.
*Vancouver not included
2 teams.
Had*
Speaking of which, was he on the ice when his old teammate Marty did the thing to Brashear which we shall not mention?
@@Uncle_Troy Yes, Messier was dressed for that game. He had an assist and his TOI was 16m 45sec.
I don't remember if he was actually on a shift when it happened though.
Yeah he never really played FOR Vancouver
"Thanks for the Mess".
Canucks “unofficially” retired Wayne Maki number 11 when he died. That was the reason they just put it back in service because of Messier. I don’t believe it was ever hung in the rafters. Maki family complained but they did it anyway
Honoured, right?
Wayne Maki was actually a very good player. A hard nosed forward who could score. One of the best Canucks during their early years.
There IS a RUMOR - That FAMILY MAKI - liked that - with MESSIER Finally came with some #11 LEADERSHIP ! Everybody LOVED MAKI - as MESSIER !
Wayne maki was hot garbage
Looking back at those Orca jerseys just reminds of the Bertuzzi, Naslund, Morrison and Ohlund Era.
Messier's play on the ice while in Vancouver wasn't bad, but he was basically an anti-leader in the locker room. While Keenan was ripping guys to shreds, his buddy, Messier would just sit by the wayside and go unscathed. The late 90s Canucks team was basically a civil war between Keenan/Messier and the rest of the team.
I lost a lot of respect for Messier when he took the "C" from Linden. A great leader doesn't make it about himself. He could have helped the leadership group without the "C".
He publicly said he wouldn't do it too
Takes the C, forces them to unretire a number, sues them for even more money than they should've paid him... what a class act
@@natedicksonmedia Gives him the C thinking he'll repeat what he did in Edmonton and New York, Gives him a number they Unofficially retired, Get's sued because they breached his contract. It's not Messier's fault, it's the Canucks fault, you didn't watch the video
As a Ranger fan, I remember the shock of Mess leaving. NYR and Van both suffered from the move.
At least you got a cup out of it and a jerk who tried to end our captain’s career.
wish he never left New York
He was done in 97 writing was on the wall
the only reason Canucks signed him was because the night before they lost Gretzky
@@patricklee4581 year before
I remember attending the Heritage Classic, them playing an ad with Messier during intermission and the crowd loudly booing that they stop playing it after like the second time lol
Yes I was there! It was hilarious. Plus the guy beside me was apparently a big Messier fan and friends were laughing at him bc of it
I was also there too. Probably the best moment of the Heritage Classic for me lol
"Ah shit. Here we go again...," - CJ
I talked with few Canucks fan while I was living in Vancouver, and everyone of them hated Messier with a passion. I wasn't aware of all that history and how Messier divided the team. A very interesting story indeed.
I never looked into Messier's age when he joined the team, it really puts the "why" the team failed into perspective. This Canuck organization continues to be ran horribly.. hopefully one day... one day things will go smoothly.
@@norz72 I do hope for all you canucks fans
Even guys with local ties to Vancouver (glenn anderson) were hated during the Oilers dynasty. It was bad enough we lost to them, but they enjoyed running up the score more than any team ever has. So then to see them sign their arch nemesis in Messier.. and in the process ditching both Linden and fan fave Bure, well thats too much for us nuckleheads to take. Fuck Messier
I have wondered what people outside of Vancouver thought of Messier's time here.
@@September2004 Here's my take: Vancouver sucked so much that they thought an aging Messier could be the silver bullet, instead of actually fixing the problems
I was 12 and soooo excited at the time. I lived in POCO and remember that newspaper cover. I also vividly remember being incredibly confused as to why we weren't winning every game lol!
I had just moved to Vancouver at that time. Rumour had it, Trevor stood up between periods of a game and began a 'we can do this" speech. Messier abruptly told Linden to sit his ass down. The beginning of the end of Linden in Vancouver, and the Messier fiasco.
I’m pretty sure it was Keenan who berated Linden and told him to shut up- I think the perception (which probably has truth to it) was that Messier wanted Mike Keenan to come in and try what worked in NY, but it backfired and a lot of the Canucks players looked at Messier as being more of a management type making decisions with the coaching staff above the players as opposed to a guy really playing with them. I don’t think Messier was ever accused of yelling or belittling anyone more than he wasn’t playing hard enough and was colluding with Keenan while Keenan belittled and tried to clean house
@@andyorenzo2449 You might be right about Keenan telling Linden to sit down and not Messier. On a side note, I was at a Vancouver Tim Hortons and Keenan was at a table next to me talking with someone. He said he liked Vancouver in the Summer but hated the rain in Winter. Too bad he didn't coach the AAA baseball team.
THG, can you please do a video on the career of Vancouver Canucks legend Mats Sundin?
Haha you're digging blood out of your own nose my friend
I've always wondered what the whole deal was about. Excited for this one.
As a Ranger fan, it's even more amazing the Rangers gave him about the same contract (3 years , 20 million) after his debacle in Vancouver. Messier missed the playoffs his last 7 seasons.
@Vincent Daly The original commenter is a Rangers fan. And you must care somewhat if you decided to post and cry about Canucks fans when it was a Rangers fan commenting.
@Vincent Daly I'm not really blaming Messier. But how can an organization that 3 years prior said he is no longer worth All Star first line money and he is aging, then watch that prove to be true in Vancouver, still decide to go out and give him #1 All-Star Center money for 3 years? They did that over and over with a lot of other players too.
He is the only person to Captain 2 different Stanley cup teams
The guy is a Legend!
He who shall not be named
Wayne #11 MAKI
I stopped being a season ticket holder after Canuck's 2nd year with Mark Messier. I was infuriated with his lack of care when the team missed the playoffs. The worse times for a Canuck fan.
Well he got paid
Wow, how petty are you?
No. I've blacked this part of the Canucks history out of my memory...Sorry, I'm still in denial.
Oh that Mark Messier as a Canuck look back. I remember it well. @ the time the Canucks signed Messier, I remember thinking.... what is all this about. Mark and Mike Keenan, destroyed the Canucks team. Bure wanted out, and Linden was traded. What a disaster. Then years later, Mark take the Canucks to court. Why? After he left, he was told that the Canucks were of more value. And under Marks old Canuck contract, he deserves more money. Wins the court case, and Mark who isn't a Canuck at the time.... gets millions from the Canucks. So, Marks 3 years.as a Canuck the Canucks didn't make the playoff. What a great leader, I say with sarcasm.
None of that is Messier's Fault though, that's the Canucks organization's fault bro
I remember turning on the TV and hearing the news about Messier signing and was absolute fuming. Never forgave him for 1994, the fact that he then drove both Trevor Linden and Pat Quinn out of town and brought in Mike Keenan made it so much worse. My earliest memories as a Canucks fan are as a kid from the mid-late 80s but they Messier era was easily my least favourite period. Went to a couple of games and it seemed pretty clear he didn’t give a crap.
are you related to rudy?
@@hotdogwater7037 Ha, yeah, he’s my uncle.
@@NickPoeschek oh man that rules. he was a tough SOB
PTSD! PTSD! Alert! Alert! Why did you go there? Aaaaaaaagh.
This is the most incredible break down of what I lived through , absolutely incredible job
Shannon is looking good on that magazine cover
Moose was always one of my favourite players since his early Oiler days, I felt bad for him in Vancity, but out of that mess the Canucks ended up with the West Coast Express, Jovocop and the Sedin twins.
what? How does messier turn into WCE Jovo and the twins? Out of all those, you can say he influenced Bertuzzi coming over.. Morrison was Mogilny, Naslund was Stojanov, both of whom Messier had no bearing on. Jovo was Bure, The twins were McCabe
Can I have what you're smoking?
@@patricklee4581 he said 'out of that mess' so more than just Messier, but : Messier in, meant Linden out for Bertuzzi,McCabe and |Ruttu!
@@patricklee4581 If Messier doesn’t go to Vancouver, they don’t collapse as hard and sell off to lead to WCE and Sedins
#11 is for Wayne Maki. He died of brain cancer, and there was an understanding by ownership #11 would be out of circulation. It was never formally retired. Then ownership changed.
Maki was garbage
Would love to see a Nazzy career video
My favorite player growing up.
I remember after he did those commercials for Lay's chips and some Canuck fan had a sign at a home game that said, "Hey Mark, I bet you can't score just one."
I love these hockey stories, news. Make more like these. Like the run Toronto maples leafs had in 93.
The Orca was way better than the yellow V. Holy moly is that awful.
Your original Messier video was one of the first I watched, this brings me back!
I moved to Vancouver in 1999 for a couple of years and there was a stench in the air left over from Messier and Pat Quinn. Fans seemed real happy to move on at that point. I was glad I got to miss that and see Naslund/Morrison/Bertuzzi and the early Sedin twins instead.
I wonder how many times an NHL team has signed a well past his prime, super star player to super star money and ended up being disappointed by the on ice result? It indicates that even management can’t see the obvious. That being that age and wear and tear take their toll on ALL players.
And there is the video we were going to get! Love the stuff, Shannon!
i cant believe you went 10 and a half minutes before mentioning mike keenan. with messier in vancouver ive always imagined it as him and keenan joined at the hip
I love this format. I was watching hockey during this era but obviously didn't hear anything about this growing up, but I do remember when Mark left NYR after Wayne showed up and they had that run to the Eastern Conference Finals (I was looking for goalies to emulate and Mike Richter impressed me - how could he keep his eyes on that Fox puck with the tail?)
A great, well-rounded take, a good tie-in to contemporary trends, and a reflection on the matter after the fact. I'm sure you have a lot of primary material from throughout the years that discuss hot topics, I'm excited to see the playlist develop
I was tempted to give this a thumbs down because it was about Messier as a Canuck, but I’m not that mean. LOL. Mean Mark was the guy who hit Trevor when he was down at the end of game 6, and then he chased him out of town when he got here. And you’re right - I HATE the orca as a fan since 1998 because it reminds me of Messier. I hated the guy when he came here. But of course, my uncle bought me a Messier jersey, which got lost in a move. I obviously found it easy to make peace with that “loss.” The orca should have died when Messier left. Whenever I see that jersey I think of Mean Mark.
Imagine hating the orca because of something that happened in the past 🤡
@@painnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn it was a simple story of association.
I found it kinda funny and interesting, if you struggled to see that I suggest some reading comprehension classes.
I guess it's a same things with San Diego Chargers blue helmet.
People hate it bc they associate it with Ryan Leaf.. But I associate it with LT, Shawn Merriman, Rodney Harrison and Junior Seau..
But I get it why people hate it
@@derkaiserzen People forget how good insanely Merriman was.
He was basically a diet-Lawrence Taylor his first 3 years in the league.
when i see the orca jersey i think of Markus Naslund
It’s funny tho Gretzky actually said of Mess: “He’ll never be traded (from the Oilers)” and we’ll look at him now.
Very interesting to know the whole story. Thanks!
They forgot to get Lowe, Kurri, Anderson, Tikkanen, Beukaboom and Graves as well
We had Tikkanen. lol.
Didnt TIKKANEN - bring any LEADERSHIP ?
@@holoholopainen1627 intangeables
Don't forget Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau!
@6:24 you just described the Canucks right now. Yippie can’t wait
That old paper is a great find.. Love that 2 page spread of a young baby faced Thornton and Canuck Messier
The absolute worst era in Canucks history.
Hands down the best hockey channel out there.
This was a good video. This would be a good series 'Revisiting the Time....." You should do one on Gretzky going to LA.
Messier single handily torpedoed the Franchise by getting Keenan hired and forcing Linden to hand over the C
Shannon thank you for enlightening us fans in general. I know there were hatred towards Messier and Canucks, but didn't realize it was so deep rooted and maybe to this day, die hard Canucks fans don't want to uncrate this subject. Kings Fans used to loathe with passion Rob Blake when he was traded and ended up winning with the Avs and signed with SJS made it worse, but I guess winning cures all the pain and all the hatred were buried with it. Kings Fans were more understanding with Luc, but with Blake back then we would boo and jeer everytime he touches the puck.
By the way I recent found your TH-cam channel, around the time of the Kraken draft...awesome videos. Keep up the great work.
Let's not revisit this......puleeeeez!!!!
Obviously New York Ranger fans consider Mark Messier a god. But what is not reported enough is the fact, Messier manipulated the Front Office to trade away young players, future 1st rounders for aging/oft injured vets which delayed Rangers rebuild by a good 10 years. After Gorton was fired, he tried to mettle again, volunteering his help to consult. Mess is a great player but I don’t miss this guy.
This, Brendan Shanahan epescially
great subject matter, well done as usual
This is the period where I gave up on hockey. Luckily the west coast express brought me back.
I keep forgetting Messier was a Canuck its just weird
I saw guy wearing a Messier jersey at a game I went to back in March I was surprised he didn't get heat for that.
Best game the Canucks played during that time was when they came to MSG with Mark and he scored and got the first star.
he would only play motivated in spurts. Otherwise it was a 3 year vacation in the Pacific Northwest
Best Vancouver jersey is the original rink with the hockey stick. As for Messier after hearing the Burke story about Gretzky and the Canucks sure over the years he was the consultation prize. Never knew it at the time but 100% now.
I agree. I really liked the original Canucks uniforms, especially when I was a kid. I was about 9 years old when the Canucks came into the league and I dug those uniforms right away.
After Messier left New York, he never played in another playoff game.
not even when he went back and they led the league in payroll every year.
Would love to see the Bure video. One of my favourite players not from the Oilers. He was so fun to watch. Those 94 playoffs with Bob Cole calling the games. Bure flying around hitting Rangers in the first few mins and Bob Cole and the Vancouver crowd going nuts.
Oh or the game 7 overtime against the flames. When they were down 3-1 in the series, I got cocky with my Flames fan friend and doubled down on our bet they would still win the series. That’s a goal I will never forget.
@@matthewdaley746 , nothing strange about it. The owner had money issues and started selling off the team....starting with Wayne Gretzky.
Actually Wayne didn’t even have an NHL standard contract with the Oilers. He had a personal services contract to the owner.
I don't think that I can watch this one without a bottle of Jack to get me through it.
@The Hockey Guy I Remember When This Happened From a Young Flyers Fan at The Time and Bad Choice by Vancouver Without Question Since Mark Did Beat Them in the 1994 Cup Finals!
In 2000 when Messier went back to the Rangers it was the same year His old buddy Glen Sather became the GM.
I agree with THG, the Messier period with Keenan was the darkest days of this team's history and that's saying something given the woes of their early years coming in as an expansion team and the mid-late 80's. Messier and Keenan seemed to do all they could to tear down a very good, albeit underacheiving and aging core.
I always wondered what Canucks fans thought of Messier. Thank you
Only one thing to say about him being a Canuck. That was messy, eh?
you're fired.
Next time you do a video on a teams cap can you go into how the performance bonuses work? Is there a limit on the dollar amount and how come it doesn't impact the cap?
Ironically I just watched his other video about Messier with the Canucks a couple of days ago.
I love the thumbnail for this video
No thank you! no need to revisit this. Thanks
Ah yes Mark Messier...a guy whose elbow never met an opponents head it didn't like
1995: Get out of 1st Rd
1996: Got out of 1st Rd
1987: No playoffs 🤣
@Kevin Badger I think THG misspoke
The moose is loose in British Columbia and it's a mess.
11 wasn’t officially retired, it was like bourdon’s 28
Mess will always be a hero to me. He brought a Cup to NYC after 54 yrs of agony.
that was more leetch and richter.
That whole thing was bizarre. It was hard to respect him after this. He squandered a lot of goodwill.
Great video, man! Still can't eat Lays potato chips because Messier is linked to them.
not missing much, they've got no flavor anyway.
I have a 2005-06 Daniel Sedin Orca jersey, the dark one which was the away jersey at the time. The orca is my favourite Canuck logo, that's not saying much, I love the team but they've never had the best logos. Remember the 1995-96 red top/black bottom with the off-set yellow "V" skate jerseys? Those were hideous.
Really interesting history!
Im not a nucks fan.._but Pavel Bure and Messier are some of fav players. Messier Captain of Oilers, was my first jersey, I begged for Gretz got Mess, so I became his fan. Fun video!
I wonder if you could somehow contact some of these NHL players and ask to do interviews with them about these topics. I'd love to hear what the players have to say about these things. It be really cool.
As an Isles fan I absolutely loved this signing.
@Vincent Daly because it hurt the Rangers. They had just got to the conference finals. They would go on to miss the playoffs for seven consecutive years when he left. 😊
@Vincent Daly umm what
@Vincent Daly the islanders have a better track record then the rangers 4 cups in 50 years is alot better then what 4 or 5 the rangers have in 100 years
@Vincent Daly Canucks r a** to u can't run your mouth lol u like the rangers and the Canucks 2 of the worst over the past 50 years for sure no cups get over yourself islanders literally had the worst gm ever to exist by far an they still got more
it is a great logo + also Canucks longest and most performance-successful logo
but at the time was definitely very Corpo
well only if we only measure SCFs
based on average wins, top player points, standings, etc pretty sure orca is a much better average….. I did the math once but Tbh it’s hazy so I hesitated to say I’m 100% sure lol
Looking back at that 96-97 season, I am shocked at how poorly the Canucks performed despite all the talent they had on that roster.
too soon, Shannon.
As I understood it, there was a player rejection of Keenan. Messier was a big Keenan guy and there was friction with Mess and the rest of the team because of it.
I’m wondering Shanon do you still have the magazine with the cover of Mark Messier has a Canuck on it that you showed in your remembering the 1999 Dallas Stars video?
The mid-90's decline for the Canucks, for me, started with the Mogilny trade. They gave up a lot of youth/depth/grit for Alex and he didn't mesh at all with Bure (the two rarely were good at the same time during their partnership in Vancouver). The coach/goalie carousel along with the Messier acquisition were merely rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Burke deserves a lot of credit for correcting the course... which started with Mogilny being shipped out for Morrison and Pederson and the dismissal of Keenan.
Gee thanks Shannon ..I almost forgot :P
Great video.
Leadership? Leadership starts by being an EXAMPLE for people to look up to. How do you become an example to anyone? Respect. Respect the voices, the personalities, the opinions around you. "I don't agree with that, but at least I respect what you're trying to say.", and I show you that I'm not lying through my teeth, by follow-up example. Messier showed ZERO respect, from day 1, to the organization and its history ("Maki's #11 IS MINE!, and I don't care why it's retired".), his coach ("I WANT MY COACH in here!", and out goes Renney and in comes Keenan.), or his teammates ("I WANT THE 'C'! I should have that!", and not only does it alienate half the team from him and his "leadership", it opens the door for several players to follow Linden, ARGUABLY the greatest LEADER the team ever had - with respect to Stan Smyl and The Sedins - out the door.). Messier was no "leader"; he was a spoiled, selfish, arrogant, a-hole. He always was! He played that way, from his days with The Oilers, through to his Edmonton Rangers days, and into Vancouver. Over-hyped OWNERSHIP DRIVEN move (I don't believe for a minute this was Quinn's deal), that backfired WONDERFULLY for that ownership group; HA-HA! Unfortunately, the fans watching paid the emotional price of seeing their team evaporate under this egomaniac.
It was an interesting time for me with hockey in the 1990's. My whole family is heavily into hockey. We have Sabres fans, Rangers fans, Oilers fans, And Canuck fans. Many of us have came to cheer for all 4 teams over the years, myself included. I became a Canucks fan over a bet though. If Rangers won the cup in 94 I had to become a Canuks fan, if Canucks won my cousin became a Rangers fan. We all know how 94 went. So when Messier left the rangers to go to the Cauncks I wasn't as disappointed as most Rangers fans were....at first. As good as we was, Messier was a bad fit in Vancouver but as Shannon said not everything durn that dark time was his fault.
Not a Vancouver fan… but since the 70s, prefer the old school green & blue ‘hockey stick’ jersey, classic imo! Keep up the good work, excited for the regular season to start, and…
Go Rangers! ;)
Oh God, please no. Make the nightmares stop 🤚😭
As much as I disagreed with the decision at the time, Wayne Maki's #11 was never officially retired, nor was it ever "in the rafters". It had simply been "honoured" by the Canucks and never subsequently dawned by any other Canucks' player until Messier. I shared season tickets at the Colosseum, and the only sweater number "in the rafters" was Steamer's #12.
The Canucks management deserves blame for letting him have #11. Did they ask the Maki family before handing #11 to Messier? Not officially retired, but its all about respect to the fallen Canuck. #37 and #28 fall under the same boat. I don't necessarily blame Messier for taking #11. Management should know better.
@@TheGreatNathan I was a huge fan of Messier's and felt exactly the same way. I was commenting on Shannon's erroneous comment.
Lets not revisit this
fwiw I think the Caps were heavily in on Messier too
Messier joining the canucks was also when the goalie carousel graveyard began
Have you done a video on Mogilny's career? That would be an interesting one.
watch?v=taVS3d5rgiU
@@swedreamhack5308 Thanks
MOGILNYS - 76 Goals on Selannes ROOKIE YEAR !
No doubt about it. I’m ready to get hurt again.
Vancouver Canucks legend Mark Messier lol
Mmm. ... sounds a bit like this year ... "bring in OEL and if he and a few others (Pettersson, Huggy, etc) can have a bounce-back year ... we'll be back in the playoffs"!