I really find it unfathomable as to how soo few people have actually invested into Robin Hobb. She's easily the best writer I've ever read in my life. Just finished the liveship traders last night. So thanks guys for helping me sort through my emotions.
Keffria was an interesting character. I wish she had come to terms with her internalized misogyny, at one point, though. She and Althea never really had a talk. As far as we know, Althea still feels like she can't' tell Keffria anything. That might just be the Hobb touch. No one really has a fully happy ending. Keffria did grow, though, by becoming more independent--and choosing it, being at least a little self-aware. (And honestly Althea had a kinda similar realization. She realized she wasn't actually as amazing of a sailor as she had thought.)
I completely agree with you on Wintrow at the end. Etta directly told him that Althea was telling the truth about what happened, yet he did/said nothing.
I hate how Wintrow handled this. I hate how so many people didn’t believe Althea. And yet, I also think it was important that Hobb wrote it this way because it sadly reflects far too many women’s (and men’s) experience when it comes to rape. And I hope that by writing it this way that it makes people listen when people open up and tell their own stories of abuse so that they can get the support that they need.
@@emilyreads5207 Same. That's why I was so hoping for her to tell Brashen (after Brashen had seen Kennit's facade of being a savior and a good guy), and he instantly believes her, and she feels a huge relief. I wanted it so bad. But her confession of it to him, instead, was so rushed. and, instead, the only person who believed her was the man who had never met him.
I take it from this discussion the three of you hadn't gotten to the Fitz and the Fool trilogy. It explores so much of the Fool's background, culture and history. The final book in that trilogy was the first book that ever made me cry. She recently announced she is writing again!
Maybe I’m in the minority but my favorite was Brashen. Maybe not as impactful as others but as a disappointing son he spoke to me haha. Followed by Paragon and Amber
I actually loved Malta in the first book. She reminded me of my teen years when you have your own things and dont care of adult stuff like taxes, inflation or politics in general. Sometimes people dont want to change the world. Sometimes people just want to dance. get marry and have a good time with friends. Loved this discussions.
I was really intrigued by the way Hobb handled misunderstandings between the characters. And I don't mean the typical scenario where someone has vital information that they could share, but for some bizarre reason don't. More in the way that the different worldviews and perspectives of these characters clash against each other. It starts so early where Kyle confines Althea to her room aboard the Vivacia. And he remarks to Keiffria that he believes that time in confinement really got through to her. But from Althea's perspective we know she spent the whole time thinking about how terrible Kyle is. Which was to me one of the first clashes of the Bingtown trader worldview and the Chalcedean one. Their individual worldviews prevent them from seeing the others perspective. And then as you guys talked about with Kenitt. Everyone misunderstands his actions as good, but since we get his perspective we can see through all of his manipulation, and wild luck. Characters constantly assume to understand what other characters are thinking, and they are almost always wrong, because they are looking at it with their individual lenses. Hobb utilizes characters interpretations of others actions as a way to contextualize that characters beliefs. Even if we as the reader know they couldn't be more wrong. I've never read an author that does that so well.
I had suspicions about Amber as soon as Althea saw the realistic baby doll in her shop. Hmmm.... I think I know a smart ass wood worker who likes baby dolls.
Excellent discussion! I have been a Robin Hobb fan since the late 90s, and it is so great to see her works getting more recognition and being talked about more. - - - Spoilers for liveships and farseer below! - - - The reveal about the wizardwood logs was simultaneously such a thrill and a gut punch to read. It was awsome to find out that there are real Dragons in the world, but felt so sad that the Dragon Verity struggled to awake was not real, just some weird imitation. And that all these liveships I had come to love were some sort of undead abominations when they could have been true dragons.
Really? I just assumed that dragon was a dragon, and Verity gave it its blood/memories, making it have Verity's memories and care about the same things. I hadnt' thought it might just be an imitation dragon. But that might make sense. a way the Elderlings were, perhaps, trying to weaponize dragon magic? Interesting!
Although I could only watch the beginning of this because I haven't read the series yet, I love seeing small time booktubers coming together! Jake is great and wish him continued growth and success.
For full disclosure I also started with Liveship. No idea why, just because. A lot of it just didn't click with me. The first two books are basically showing why almost all the characters are miserable, then Destiny seems a rush of character reversals. I will say the character work is excellent but for the most part the only ones I was interested in were Etta and Paragon. And Althea toward the end to see how that got resolved. There are also some arcs that seemed overlooked but might be explored later. Selden became the zealot that Wintrow wanted to be worshipping Sa or Kennitt. Or that the Rain Wild Traders were committing genocide for profit seemed to be completely ignored by virtually everyone. Perhaps I am interpretjng the series as much darker. For example the tattooing of slave's faces at the same time as dragon's marking their own slaves through physical alterations. And Reyn's courting of a 13 year old girl was unsettling at times. I will be picking on Farseer at some point and likely more but I didn't feel the need to start right away.
I honestly ened up hating almost all of the characters by the end of the trilogy. I could rant about those character arcs for hours, my blood boils just thinking about that ending. It's a testament to the author to be able to evoke such a strong reaction from a reader ( and I still recommend these books to anyone who would listen) But I hate it nonetheless.
I disliked Malta so much in the beginning . The third book one of my favorites. I felt bad for her and had sympathy for her and I was proud of her. And also the fool. Our sweet prince. One of the best characters in the series. Even with fits not being there. Fits saves the fool 💓. Althea in the third book break my heart. That night I read that scene. I couldn't fall asleep that night. I was so mad and sad for him. No TV show or movie or book besides the ship of Destiny has done that to me.
Yeah this book legitimately evoked such an emotional response from me in book three that I was kind of just blah for a whole day. Takes some masterful writing to achieve that. Malta is awesome 😎
Spoiler Warning ⚠️ Hi there! First I loved the spoiler discussion! I was wondering if anyone noticed that Amber craved the likeness of Fitz to Paragon? Like even down to his battle axe?! I literally ate up every detail referring to Fitz and Amber ( Cough cough the Fool)I just thought that detail was so epic! And such payoff from reading Farseer. LS was just everything🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾Probably the best Fantasy trilogy I’ve read. 5/5 for the entire series. Ranking of books 3-2-1 but all were 5⭐️ so yeah! This spoiler discussion is everything! Thanks again Jimmy, Jake and Chris👏🏾🤩
Shouldn't be too far away, I'll finish that trilogy this weekend and review it next weekend. Probably a week or two after that for the spoiler discussion 😁
About 2.5 years late to this party, but this was a great discussion! I'm getting ready to read Golden Fool in a day or two, but wanted to reminisce on some Liveship.
@@thefantasynuttwork I'm reading faithful and the fallen right now I'm at the beginning of ruin. It is a great series I heard about it a couple of years ago but your channel convinced me to read it, and I am so glad I did! So thank you!
I LOVED Patience in Farseer. And, yes, I'm sure that's why I loved Ronica, too. Gotta say, though, that I was disappointed with her arc with Syrilla (I listened to the audiobook, so I'm not sure how it's spelled. I tried to search with random spellings....). They came to respect each other, but we never really got to see it. I really feel like Hobb's publishers asked her to shorten Ship of Destiny 'cause a lot of story lines feel a little rushed to the end, character-wise. (You're gonna get a few more comments from me, so I hope you're ready! I just finished the series a few days ago. This series has made me LOVE fantasy like I haven't in over a decade!)
Tintaglia was fantastic! Her arrogance and self-absorption contrasted with her deep, DEEP concern for the serpents. And it was funny to see her frustration when she was clashing with the humans and just not understanding! Kinda felt like Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But when they describe the movement of her eyes, it was like "spinning" or something. It was something like that but seemed biologically impossible, and I had a difficult time envisioning it. I don't know if I'm making any sense here?
My ranking would be: 1. Ship of Destiny 2. Mad Ship 3. Ship of Magic All of them are 5 out of 5 stars. I don't use star ratings but helps illustrate just how much I loved it. Amber and Althea are my favourite characters in the trilogy but Malta had the best arc imo. Paragon is easily my favourite of the Liveships.
This convo went by fast considering how long book 3 took me to read. The elephant in the room part with Althea rly was unexpected bc it seemed more likely for that to be a part of Malta's story..but Hobb switched it up. Heavy read, to say the least
What i have always wondered about. And maybe i missed it.....but how does it work with the ships comming to life? Cause the eggs and the ships need different "magic"? It's veen 15 years since ive read them 🤣
Just coming across this. And yes, on Kyle- at the very beginning, I supported him, his reasons made sense. And then when you learned more about the reasons and why he was doing what he’s doing- he was just awful. And how he treats Wintrow, a son he hasn’t seen in forever. And how he treats women. Truly awful. I was very happy when he got jailed on the island.
I accidentally read “The Rainwild Chronicals” before “The Liveship Traders”. I thought they were two completely separate series. The good thing about that was that I already knew what was happening with the serpents at the beginning of “Ship of Magic”. It made all the serpent bits interesting. I think I would have found those sections annoying otherwise.
SoD is my favorite. I had the *same* thought about Kyle vs kennit. It really really bothers me that i hate kyle and i don't actually hate kennit. But farseer is still my favorite bc Fitz was like a lost puppy and i wanted to rescue him 😭
My exact thoughts! I remember hanging in there past the point I would normally stop, trusting that Robin Hobb could hook me by stealth - never happened. Highly unlikely to re-read.
Unpopular opinion: I kind of loved Malta's rebellious nature from the start! I mean yeah, she was a spoiled brat in the beginning, no doubt. But, at the same time, I felt like she was the third-wave feminism to Ronica's second-wave. If you think about it in a different way, whenever Ronica insisted that Malta should not dress a certain way because that would somehow signify her availability or readiness for courtship, Malta was like "fuck that! I will not be shamed for wanting to wear a fancy dress and in fact it's not my problem whatever people might assume it signifies" To me that felt kind of refreshing in the context of the first novel and I was initially put off by the way that it was painted so negatively in the first novel. Of course, Hobb worked her character magic yet again and completely subverted the reader's expectations in the later books, which made me feel justified for liking the character from the start. Overall, Malta was such a queen.
I agree Kyle isn’t a very believable villain...not just because he’s an ass, but also because he makes so many bad decisions immediately It’s just not realistic the Vestrits would put their fate in the hands of someone so incompetent, who immediately does exactly what you’re not supposed to with a Liveship (slavery, alienating family (Althea))
IMO What made Kyle so hateable and 2 whopper punch worthy was that his justifications made since on some level, but his execution and treatment of his decisions and those around him was utter TRASH. How does RH make us feel all the things?!
(Hello, it is me again; I'm listening to snippets throughout the week, when I can). I could have enjoyed the series more with less serpent sections. But they were short, and near the end, I started enjoying them because they were not just observing each other but the human characters---the "two-legs." I got REAL tired of the use of "trumpet" to describe them talking to each other. they were always trumpeting and bugling like I GET IT... And I felt like their convos to each other were sooo ponderous and ,monotonous. They all seemed to have the same way of talking.
A) Why doesn’t anyone give Socor the credit he deserves? The entire foundation of Kennit’s reputation is based on Socor’s firm part of the deal - that for every liveship they chase - they take a slaver ship? It’s so annoying that it’s never pointed out or discussed. B)Kennit is the equivalent of DT. He’s a rapist. and people still think highly of him? Kyle - who’s petty, irrational, and uses his power for cruelty, granted, but never raped anyone- is worse? That is crazy to me. Kennit from his own pov is literally the opposite to everything everyone else thinks he is. Kyle is just an asshole.
I agree with Jimmy Wintrow is spineless and I’m still unspeakably angry about it which is testament to the writing. Ship of Destiny was my fav with all the plots coming together with a slightly faster pace and a great conclusion
Fool DID have a sister ......’she reminds me of my older sister .... she had golden hair ..... I should have liked to see her again. She used to spoil me outrageously’ .... Assassins Quest pp789
Kennitt is a traumatized individual. And for sure it does not excuse any of his actions, but for sure he is traumatized, which then impacts what he does.
@@thefantasynuttwork for sure, what he did to Althea was horrific. It’s sad how people who have been traumatized commit the very same acts. It’s such a vicious cycle. I can understand why he gave his memories to Paragon and didn’t want them back. I’m 300:pages away from the ending of Fool’s Fate right now. Im assuming Fitz will have the opportunity to,get the memories that he gave Girl on the Dragon based,on a comment made. That being said, what aKennitt did was horrific, but I see him as someone who was so broken and never saw any form of healthy way of interacting with people outside of his relationship with his mother. But she was so beaten down herself, that while he love her, he couldn’t respect her. So, he had no one to model healthy relationships, so he would turn out to be unhealthy.
I’m totally there with jake on the title being a turn-off for me, tbh. That’s why when I heard about it, easily in the early aughts if not the 90s, I was like “eh, that sounds boring and generic.”
@@thefantasynuttwork i got the hints, but i thought that it meant she also was a prophet, you know? not THE fool itself also i imagined the fool as this very scrawny albino androgynous person and amber as a tan person (honestly i dunno if i read that or not, i'm terrible at remembering descriptions of characters)
but its good cause it makes me excited for the next trilogy, i sadly am of those ppl who felt betrayed by the rape scene so i wasnt sure i would continue
Oh god I feel dumb, I’ve just finished the trilogy and had no idea who Amber was at all. Was that supposed to be obvious? Or am I just unobservant? 😂 SPOILER My only defence is that I read Assassin’s quest 6 months ago and didn’t remember that a certain character ‘disappeared’
Thank you gentlemen, this was a wonderful opportunity to hang out with the three of you, and everyone else in the chat.
Thanks for being here 😁
I really find it unfathomable as to how soo few people have actually invested into Robin Hobb. She's easily the best writer I've ever read in my life.
Just finished the liveship traders last night. So thanks guys for helping me sort through my emotions.
Glad to be of service! Hobb is the best fantasy writer of all time IMO
@@thefantasynuttwork You won't find any argument from me on that front
Keffria was an interesting character. I wish she had come to terms with her internalized misogyny, at one point, though. She and Althea never really had a talk. As far as we know, Althea still feels like she can't' tell Keffria anything. That might just be the Hobb touch. No one really has a fully happy ending. Keffria did grow, though, by becoming more independent--and choosing it, being at least a little self-aware. (And honestly Althea had a kinda similar realization. She realized she wasn't actually as amazing of a sailor as she had thought.)
Solid point!
I completely agree with you on Wintrow at the end. Etta directly told him that Althea was telling the truth about what happened, yet he did/said nothing.
Yeah, I've had people debate with me but I'm team screw Wintrow
I hate how Wintrow handled this. I hate how so many people didn’t believe Althea. And yet, I also think it was important that Hobb wrote it this way because it sadly reflects far too many women’s (and men’s) experience when it comes to rape. And I hope that by writing it this way that it makes people listen when people open up and tell their own stories of abuse so that they can get the support that they need.
@@emilyreads5207 Same. That's why I was so hoping for her to tell Brashen (after Brashen had seen Kennit's facade of being a savior and a good guy), and he instantly believes her, and she feels a huge relief. I wanted it so bad. But her confession of it to him, instead, was so rushed. and, instead, the only person who believed her was the man who had never met him.
I take it from this discussion the three of you hadn't gotten to the Fitz and the Fool trilogy. It explores so much of the Fool's background, culture and history. The final book in that trilogy was the first book that ever made me cry.
She recently announced she is writing again!
Maybe I’m in the minority but my favorite was Brashen. Maybe not as impactful as others but as a disappointing son he spoke to me haha. Followed by Paragon and Amber
Oh damn you too?
Brashen made me feel safe which I needed after all the other craziness
I actually loved Malta in the first book. She reminded me of my teen years when you have your own things and dont care of adult stuff like taxes, inflation or politics in general. Sometimes people dont want to change the world. Sometimes people just want to dance. get marry and have a good time with friends. Loved this discussions.
Thanks!
I have been waiting for 2 YEARS TO WATCH THIS CONVERSATION! It was worth it. Thanks for putting on a great show guys, and what a fantastic discussion.
Congrats on finishing!
I was really intrigued by the way Hobb handled misunderstandings between the characters. And I don't mean the typical scenario where someone has vital information that they could share, but for some bizarre reason don't. More in the way that the different worldviews and perspectives of these characters clash against each other.
It starts so early where Kyle confines Althea to her room aboard the Vivacia. And he remarks to Keiffria that he believes that time in confinement really got through to her. But from Althea's perspective we know she spent the whole time thinking about how terrible Kyle is. Which was to me one of the first clashes of the Bingtown trader worldview and the Chalcedean one. Their individual worldviews prevent them from seeing the others perspective.
And then as you guys talked about with Kenitt. Everyone misunderstands his actions as good, but since we get his perspective we can see through all of his manipulation, and wild luck.
Characters constantly assume to understand what other characters are thinking, and they are almost always wrong, because they are looking at it with their individual lenses. Hobb utilizes characters interpretations of others actions as a way to contextualize that characters beliefs. Even if we as the reader know they couldn't be more wrong. I've never read an author that does that so well.
Very very solid points
I had suspicions about Amber as soon as Althea saw the realistic baby doll in her shop. Hmmm.... I think I know a smart ass wood worker who likes baby dolls.
Good eye for detail!
Excellent discussion!
I have been a Robin Hobb fan since the late 90s, and it is so great to see her works getting more recognition and being talked about more.
- - - Spoilers for liveships and farseer below! - - -
The reveal about the wizardwood logs was simultaneously such a thrill and a gut punch to read. It was awsome to find out that there are real Dragons in the world, but felt so sad that the Dragon Verity struggled to awake was not real, just some weird imitation. And that all these liveships I had come to love were some sort of undead abominations when they could have been true dragons.
It's amazing!!!
Really? I just assumed that dragon was a dragon, and Verity gave it its blood/memories, making it have Verity's memories and care about the same things. I hadnt' thought it might just be an imitation dragon. But that might make sense. a way the Elderlings were, perhaps, trying to weaponize dragon magic? Interesting!
Although I could only watch the beginning of this because I haven't read the series yet, I love seeing small time booktubers coming together! Jake is great and wish him continued growth and success.
Yes he is, criminally underviewed!
For full disclosure I also started with Liveship. No idea why, just because. A lot of it just didn't click with me. The first two books are basically showing why almost all the characters are miserable, then Destiny seems a rush of character reversals.
I will say the character work is excellent but for the most part the only ones I was interested in were Etta and Paragon. And Althea toward the end to see how that got resolved.
There are also some arcs that seemed overlooked but might be explored later. Selden became the zealot that Wintrow wanted to be worshipping Sa or Kennitt. Or that the Rain Wild Traders were committing genocide for profit seemed to be completely ignored by virtually everyone.
Perhaps I am interpretjng the series as much darker. For example the tattooing of slave's faces at the same time as dragon's marking their own slaves through physical alterations.
And Reyn's courting of a 13 year old girl was unsettling at times.
I will be picking on Farseer at some point and likely more but I didn't feel the need to start right away.
I honestly ened up hating almost all of the characters by the end of the trilogy. I could rant about those character arcs for hours, my blood boils just thinking about that ending.
It's a testament to the author to be able to evoke such a strong reaction from a reader ( and I still recommend these books to anyone who would listen) But I hate it nonetheless.
I know exactly what you mean
I disliked Malta so much in the beginning . The third book one of my favorites. I felt bad for her and had sympathy for her and I was proud of her. And also the fool. Our sweet prince. One of the best characters in the series. Even with fits not being there. Fits saves the fool 💓. Althea in the third book break my heart. That night I read that scene. I couldn't fall asleep that night. I was so mad and sad for him. No TV show or movie or book besides the ship of Destiny has done that to me.
Yeah this book legitimately evoked such an emotional response from me in book three that I was kind of just blah for a whole day. Takes some masterful writing to achieve that. Malta is awesome 😎
Spoiler Warning ⚠️ Hi there! First I loved the spoiler discussion! I was wondering if anyone noticed that Amber craved the likeness of Fitz to Paragon? Like even down to his battle axe?! I literally ate up every detail referring to Fitz and Amber ( Cough cough the Fool)I just thought that detail was so epic! And such payoff from reading Farseer. LS was just everything🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾Probably the best Fantasy trilogy I’ve read. 5/5 for the entire series. Ranking of books 3-2-1 but all were 5⭐️ so yeah! This spoiler discussion is everything! Thanks again Jimmy, Jake and Chris👏🏾🤩
Oh and I HATE Kyle! Forever! 🙌🏾🙌🏾😡😅😅🤩
Yes the carving was so amazing!!!
Great chat! waiting for The Tawny Man trilogy chat.
Shouldn't be too far away, I'll finish that trilogy this weekend and review it next weekend. Probably a week or two after that for the spoiler discussion 😁
@@thefantasynuttwork Dude, your reading pace is on another level XD
@@DirePantsDim yeah I'm losing my mind over here 😅🤣
The dynamic of these guys is a breath of fresh air.
Thank you 😊
About 2.5 years late to this party, but this was a great discussion! I'm getting ready to read Golden Fool in a day or two, but wanted to reminisce on some Liveship.
Thank you!
Will come back to this in month or two when I starts Robin Hobb!
Glad to hear it 😁
@@thefantasynuttwork I'm reading faithful and the fallen right now I'm at the beginning of ruin. It is a great series I heard about it a couple of years ago but your channel convinced me to read it, and I am so glad I did! So thank you!
@@fluffypenguins that makes me so happy. I love that series and am pumped when people pick it up!
Excellent conversation
Thank you 😊
I LOVED Patience in Farseer. And, yes, I'm sure that's why I loved Ronica, too. Gotta say, though, that I was disappointed with her arc with Syrilla (I listened to the audiobook, so I'm not sure how it's spelled. I tried to search with random spellings....). They came to respect each other, but we never really got to see it. I really feel like Hobb's publishers asked her to shorten Ship of Destiny 'cause a lot of story lines feel a little rushed to the end, character-wise. (You're gonna get a few more comments from me, so I hope you're ready! I just finished the series a few days ago. This series has made me LOVE fantasy like I haven't in over a decade!)
Tintaglia was fantastic! Her arrogance and self-absorption contrasted with her deep, DEEP concern for the serpents. And it was funny to see her frustration when she was clashing with the humans and just not understanding! Kinda felt like Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
But when they describe the movement of her eyes, it was like "spinning" or something. It was something like that but seemed biologically impossible, and I had a difficult time envisioning it. I don't know if I'm making any sense here?
You are!
Missed the live show but absolutely loved the chat!!
Thanks Marcel, I really appreciate it!
I love this series!
Thanks for the video
My ranking would be:
1. Ship of Destiny
2. Mad Ship
3. Ship of Magic
All of them are 5 out of 5 stars.
I don't use star ratings but helps illustrate just how much I loved it.
Amber and Althea are my favourite characters in the trilogy but Malta had the best arc imo. Paragon is easily my favourite of the Liveships.
After reading these and Farseer Robin Hobb is already one of my top 5 authors of all time
Same!
This convo went by fast considering how long book 3 took me to read. The elephant in the room part with Althea rly was unexpected bc it seemed more likely for that to be a part of Malta's story..but Hobb switched it up. Heavy read, to say the least
This was fantastic, I can´t wait to begin tawny man.
Tawny Man RULES
What i have always wondered about. And maybe i missed it.....but how does it work with the ships comming to life? Cause the eggs and the ships need different "magic"?
It's veen 15 years since ive read them 🤣
Just coming across this. And yes, on Kyle- at the very beginning, I supported him, his reasons made sense. And then when you learned more about the reasons and why he was doing what he’s doing- he was just awful. And how he treats Wintrow, a son he hasn’t seen in forever. And how he treats women. Truly awful. I was very happy when he got jailed on the island.
Same haha
I accidentally read “The Rainwild Chronicals” before “The Liveship Traders”. I thought they were two completely separate series. The good thing about that was that I already knew what was happening with the serpents at the beginning of “Ship of Magic”. It made all the serpent bits interesting. I think I would have found those sections annoying otherwise.
Haha again a year late but that Chris guy is right the forest Mage series is also very good I just haven't finished it yet one book away ✌️
Nice!
SoD is my favorite. I had the *same* thought about Kyle vs kennit. It really really bothers me that i hate kyle and i don't actually hate kennit. But farseer is still my favorite bc Fitz was like a lost puppy and i wanted to rescue him 😭
Wait who is Kennit?
He was a ludluck
Yeah... I read and don't remember much about soldier son trilogy. I mainly remember that the payoff was NOT worth it.
I'll have to give it a shot some day
My exact thoughts! I remember hanging in there past the point I would normally stop, trusting that Robin Hobb could hook me by stealth - never happened. Highly unlikely to re-read.
Unpopular opinion: I kind of loved Malta's rebellious nature from the start! I mean yeah, she was a spoiled brat in the beginning, no doubt.
But, at the same time, I felt like she was the third-wave feminism to Ronica's second-wave. If you think about it in a different way, whenever Ronica insisted that Malta should not dress a certain way because that would somehow signify her availability or readiness for courtship, Malta was like "fuck that! I will not be shamed for wanting to wear a fancy dress and in fact it's not my problem whatever people might assume it signifies"
To me that felt kind of refreshing in the context of the first novel and I was initially put off by the way that it was painted so negatively in the first novel. Of course, Hobb worked her character magic yet again and completely subverted the reader's expectations in the later books, which made me feel justified for liking the character from the start.
Overall, Malta was such a queen.
The best!
I agree Kyle isn’t a very believable villain...not just because he’s an ass, but also because he makes so many bad decisions immediately
It’s just not realistic the Vestrits would put their fate in the hands of someone so incompetent, who immediately does exactly what you’re not supposed to with a Liveship (slavery, alienating family (Althea))
Papa Vestrit was holding the, excuse the pun, ship together it would appear
IMO What made Kyle so hateable and 2 whopper punch worthy was that his justifications made since on some level, but his execution and treatment of his decisions and those around him was utter TRASH. How does RH make us feel all the things?!
Love this vídeo 🥰
Thanks!
(Hello, it is me again; I'm listening to snippets throughout the week, when I can). I could have enjoyed the series more with less serpent sections. But they were short, and near the end, I started enjoying them because they were not just observing each other but the human characters---the "two-legs." I got REAL tired of the use of "trumpet" to describe them talking to each other. they were always trumpeting and bugling like I GET IT... And I felt like their convos to each other were sooo ponderous and ,monotonous. They all seemed to have the same way of talking.
It took me 3 years to finish ship of destiny, that book made me physically ill while reading it, i never felt so much hatred while reading before.
It evoked a very emotional response out of me that no other book has ever matched
A) Why doesn’t anyone give Socor the credit he deserves? The entire foundation of Kennit’s reputation is based on Socor’s firm part of the deal - that for every liveship they chase - they take a slaver ship? It’s so annoying that it’s never pointed out or discussed. B)Kennit is the equivalent of DT. He’s a rapist. and people still think highly of him? Kyle - who’s petty, irrational, and uses his power for cruelty, granted, but never raped anyone- is worse? That is crazy to me. Kennit from his own pov is literally the opposite to everything everyone else thinks he is. Kyle is just an asshole.
I agree with Jimmy Wintrow is spineless and I’m still unspeakably angry about it which is testament to the writing. Ship of Destiny was my fav with all the plots coming together with a slightly faster pace and a great conclusion
Great minds think alike
Fool DID have a sister ......’she reminds me of my older sister .... she had golden hair ..... I should have liked to see her again. She used to spoil me outrageously’ .... Assassins Quest pp789
Thank you!!
👀👀👀
I skipped the serpents chapters and just caught the summary. I just could not read them.
I did not enjoy them much in book one but found them more intriguing later on
Kennitt is a traumatized individual. And for sure it does not excuse any of his actions, but for sure he is traumatized, which then impacts what he does.
I have sympathy for what he went through for sure, but unfortunately he became a real monster
@@thefantasynuttwork for sure, what he did to Althea was horrific. It’s sad how people who have been traumatized commit the very same acts. It’s such a vicious cycle. I can understand why he gave his memories to Paragon and didn’t want them back. I’m 300:pages away from the ending of Fool’s Fate right now. Im assuming Fitz will have the opportunity to,get the memories that he gave Girl on the Dragon based,on a comment made. That being said, what aKennitt did was horrific, but I see him as someone who was so broken and never saw any form of healthy way of interacting with people outside of his relationship with his mother. But she was so beaten down herself, that while he love her, he couldn’t respect her. So, he had no one to model healthy relationships, so he would turn out to be unhealthy.
Lets hope me calling Ephron papa Vestrit doesn't catch on
Too late 😃
I hated Kyle more than Kennit up until Kennit did what he did near the end of SoD.
I’m totally there with jake on the title being a turn-off for me, tbh. That’s why when I heard about it, easily in the early aughts if not the 90s, I was like “eh, that sounds boring and generic.”
Yeah they're not great
wait
amber is THE fool? i thought she was A fool
now i'm disappointed cause it would have been so cool to figure that out on my own
I was majorly sus of Amber from the jump haha
@@thefantasynuttwork i got the hints, but i thought that it meant she also was a prophet, you know? not THE fool itself
also i imagined the fool as this very scrawny albino androgynous person and amber as a tan person (honestly i dunno if i read that or not, i'm terrible at remembering descriptions of characters)
but its good cause it makes me excited for the next trilogy, i sadly am of those ppl who felt betrayed by the rape scene so i wasnt sure i would continue
@@cherrysubmarine I am too don't worry. I was pretty sure Amber would be related to the fool, not THE fool
Oh god I feel dumb, I’ve just finished the trilogy and had no idea who Amber was at all. Was that supposed to be obvious? Or am I just unobservant? 😂
SPOILER
My only defence is that I read Assassin’s quest 6 months ago and didn’t remember that a certain character ‘disappeared’
Nah don’t worry, many people miss it!