Fun video! These are some highlights for me: -I love the description of Malta’s chapters as a safe place where the character is bringing injustice upon herself instead of just experiencing these injustices unprovoked. It’s so true! -Kyle as “that manager”. You are SO right. -“Sorry to anybody whose names are Kyle”. XD -I didn’t finish the Fitz books either, and even now I don’t plan to, and I enjoyed these so much! -Hey, Mad Ship is also my fave! I’m glad I’m not alone in this. (: Great discussion!
Most everyone I have recommended this series to finds a particular story line or set of books they don't enjoy as much, for me its the Rain Wild Chronicles, but in every case they and myself were so glad to have read the full series as it gives the final trilogy the full impact. The way this series wraps up is absolute perfection and every book adds to that conclusion.
I get why you want to skip Tawny Man in favour of the rain wilds, and totally do that if it encourages you to read more Hobb because, well, Hobb is the best. BUT I will say, if you ever think you want to go back to Tawny Man I would HIGHLY suggest it first and foremost because of the friendship between Fitz and the Fool. I know you're a big "friendship" reader hence why the Gentleman Bastards is your fav, but the relationship between the Fitz and the Fool, especially in Fool's Fate, is just unmatched. So beautiful. Also, Fitz is still Fitz but he has grown up a lot in that trilogy. And I find the story more interesting in general compared to the Farseer Trilogy. So i'm not saying not to jump to rain wilds, but I am saying you should consider jumping back.
I also have to say, that I didn't enjoy farseer. I have no clue why I read on with liveship. Buut I really lived Tawny man. I would love to hear a review about it.
@@Sabrina-ri2qq same, Farseer was Okay, it got better as it went on, but Liveship was Amazing and Amber's presence and carving Paragons new Fitz face was beautifully done. It made me so much more invested in the Tawny man
This was a great book discussion, thank you! I'm happy to hear you liked the triology this much. 🙂 I have to agree with many others here though, Tawny Man is also a great triology (I have to admit I never had much of a problem with Fitz though). I can't recommend Tawny Man enough - for one because there are so many fascinating storylines in this book, but also because the friendship of Fitz and the Fool is really something special. Just for this alone I think it's worth giving it a try. 😊
The bond between Fitz and the Fool is something else, it grows and grows throughout the series in new and interesting ways. If anyone had tried to explain it to me I would never have guessed I would end up being so fond of that duo before reading the series.
@@andrewjames5373 Agreed. Hearing Merphy's plan to skip Tawny Man actually made me want to read it again all the more, so I just bought the audio books. I enjoy these characters so much, especially the Fool and Nighteyes.
I love your discussion about Malta and I agree with everything you said. She’s an amazing character from the beginning but not a lot of people see it. And I believe it’s the same with Sansa in A Song of Ice and Fire. I loved her from book one but no one seemed to care about her until she became assertive and the type of female fantasy character that we have been conditioned to like.
As someone who actively disliked Assassin's Quest, and took 2 years to read liveships because of it, Tawny Man is the most amazing series ever. Like, Liveship is good, but Tawny Man is just a masterpiece!
I really hope you try reading the Tawny Man trilogy. The magic systems get explored a lot more and the characters (some old some new) are fascinating to follow more like in the Liveship trilogy. Also, I really like the Outislander customs that we learn about, and I really like the exploration of the prejudice/discimination against the Wit. And I love Fitz and Nighteyes. And I think there's some payoff for mistakes/harms that Fotz has gone through in the past in his ability to do things differently and/or help others do things differently.
At one point I was like "oh yeah, she's gotta be the fool right?" and then later she's straight up like "I was called a fool once" and I was like AHHHH, CONFIRMATION!
Thanks for the discussion :) One thing on the Althea story arc: If you decide to read on in the realm of the elderlings, you will get more of Althea and can see how Paragon didn’t just magic everything away, but ‘only’ gave her a boost on the way of healing. But the instance is very much still with her, years later. Nevertheless, I agree that that didn’t come through that well in ship of destiny. It was also my least favourite liveship book. I hope you continue to enjoy Hobb!
I know you weren't a fan of Fitz but you should really try to give it another go. This whole serires is probably my favorite of all time and at the end it all connects so well.
The Tawny Man is really important if you want the full picture of the world. If it is fine with you to skip world building and want just a story then sure skip to Rain Wild Chronicles. Word of warning there will be parts then that you may not understand.
I wish there was a magic power to make trauma go away. That would be amazing. It’s a fantasy book and Hobb crafts a magic system where that is possible. these live ships can seemingly heal physical injuries as well as mental/emotional injuries. I think how Hobb dealt with Althea was good since it plays on this magic and gives her an ending where she feels more comfortable.
It’s also a metaphor for paragon ending the cycle of abuse by processing the emotions of it. I like how Hobb depicted it as something that’s forced onto others as a means of escape.
My opinion is that you totally need to read the Tawny Man Trilogy and then Rainwilds, then Fitz and the Fool. It ties everything together. You mentioned a part that got dropped 45:57, but it didn’t. Power through the series. It’s worth it.😊
Oh, ok, wow, there's a lot here. Hi Merphy, Malta - I appreciate that you understood her arc, and saw the value in her from the beginning. She has always reminded me of Scarlet O'Hara. Kyle - The *visceral* hatred I feel for this character remains intense. Kennit - Is possibly the most nuanced and brilliant characters you'll ever encounter in fiction. That his actions produce positive outcomes, is why Hobb is a genius for giving us his POV. With being in Kennit's head, we can see how 'wrong' he is. There's a lot of context around his character, and I'd love to talk to you about it. Viviacia - In particular her reaction to Kennit, and the resulting connection that forms, is about far more than many first time readers know to look for. Paragon - I love him. He's my favourite of the Liveship Trader characters. I'm very happy you enjoyed the trilogy, and even happier that you're looking to go into the Rain Wilds Chronicles, though I will ask that you very much dampen your anticipation for it. There are many reasons, and again, it would be easier to discuss. Please have a look at my channel to get a sense of my love for the series, because I'd love an opportunity to talk to you about your experience so far, and in particular get the chance to convince you to go into Tawny Man.
I do not know why I am mentioning this … but speaking of science, I am about to start working on my science-fiction/AI novel again. I will be posting updates about my progress on my writing channel. If anyone is interested!
I am re-reading this series again and love it. I am going to say its defiantly a female style fantasy series. Its written by a woman and the main characters are all women. Its a great read even for a male.
Love this video and your amazing channel please stay safe and enjoy your reading 📖 prayers and thoughts for you both and your amazing families love you both love your Aussie family friend John xxx love you both and your amazing channels
Just to show how dense I am. I didn't realize Amber was 'the Fool' until the first book of the next series. I know, I know, but I just thought it was another member of Fool's species. Sigh. Now I have to re-read.
Yeah i got spoiled of that in a different review video of this trilogy like come on yall...not everyone has read all the books yet. some of us have only read liveship trilogy
The problem with skipping Fitz’s story, is that the final part of the dragon/ships’ stories is in the final Fitz trilogy. The was my least favourite part of the final trilogy, that you only get the closure on the dragon/ships story from Fitz’ perspective.
If you do skip the Tawny man trilogy and jump to the rainwilds trilogy, you might have to go back to it before the Fitz and the Fool trilogy where the bingtown-rainwilds plots and the six dutchies plots meet
I understood why paragon took her pain . He wanted to put the responsibility/ blame back on Kennit . Althea still blamed herself (not she did anything wrong) I didn’t like she had her pain removed and now she can have sex carefree with braseen 5 minutes later . Pretty weird
Even in the 90s Hobb's handing of the SA subject matter felt out of kilter and trivialising, but that may be a UK vs US bias. I honestly don't think it was just "a sign of the times".
I think you can get away with skipping the tawny man trilogy and go straight for the rainwilds, but not sure if you can read the last trilogy without reading the tawny man.. you don't need to read the last trilogy (its a Fitz trilogy) but it's there you get to know what happens to Althea, the liveships, wintrow, Kennits legacy and all the other characters from the liveships.. And know that the rainwilds are the least liked books in the series! It has amazing world building and you will learn more about the rainwilds! But.. the characters are not the best in the series.. and often people rate them low because of that.. I know you are skipping the tawny man, but I hope you'll give it a chance after the rainwilds.. even if Fitz still makes terrible choices, he is older, and he grows.. you might like this trilogy better than the first.. and if you read it- you can read the last trilogy and know how everything are gonna end.. for Fitz, and the liveship folks.. 😬
A couple things that seemed misinterpreted. In one part of the video you claim that Kennit must have had feelings for Etta, since he kept going back to her only. In reality, the first time we meet Etta he describes her as having “modest swells” and “hair short and sleek like a boy’s” a bit later the book reads “he mounted her, face down like a boy, but took her as a woman. Let no one … say that Kennit did not know the difference between the two. We know that Kennit is strongly attracted to Wintrow and rapes Althea because they look similar. It’s implied he wanted to pass off his pain to someone else. Also Paragon didn’t take away the pain from Althea to be this white knight. He took the pain from her because that pain belonged to him. The pain belonged to Paragon, but Kennit passed it to Althea when it was not his to give away.
I forgot Malta's name early on but remembered it was with an M, so I called her M-Lydia. Bc she seems like a lydia type character to me, but since The Lizzie Bennet Diaries kind of redeems lydia I was happy to see this lydia like character also have a good arch
Kennit is by far the best character. Glad she didn’t coward out and redeem him. A lot of the other characters felt extremely annoying, like Alithea and Kyle’s storyline. Extremely repetitive pointless family feuding.
![Peace Talks [spoiler] Review](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_SoE0wjaTlo/mqdefault.jpg)
Fun video! These are some highlights for me:
-I love the description of Malta’s chapters as a safe place where the character is bringing injustice upon herself instead of just experiencing these injustices unprovoked. It’s so true!
-Kyle as “that manager”. You are SO right.
-“Sorry to anybody whose names are Kyle”. XD
-I didn’t finish the Fitz books either, and even now I don’t plan to, and I enjoyed these so much!
-Hey, Mad Ship is also my fave! I’m glad I’m not alone in this. (:
Great discussion!
Most everyone I have recommended this series to finds a particular story line or set of books they don't enjoy as much, for me its the Rain Wild Chronicles, but in every case they and myself were so glad to have read the full series as it gives the final trilogy the full impact. The way this series wraps up is absolute perfection and every book adds to that conclusion.
I get why you want to skip Tawny Man in favour of the rain wilds, and totally do that if it encourages you to read more Hobb because, well, Hobb is the best. BUT I will say, if you ever think you want to go back to Tawny Man I would HIGHLY suggest it first and foremost because of the friendship between Fitz and the Fool. I know you're a big "friendship" reader hence why the Gentleman Bastards is your fav, but the relationship between the Fitz and the Fool, especially in Fool's Fate, is just unmatched. So beautiful. Also, Fitz is still Fitz but he has grown up a lot in that trilogy. And I find the story more interesting in general compared to the Farseer Trilogy. So i'm not saying not to jump to rain wilds, but I am saying you should consider jumping back.
No. Do not skip Tawny Man. There is so much that happens, especially in Fool's Fate thar has implications for RWC
I also have to say, that I didn't enjoy farseer. I have no clue why I read on with liveship. Buut I really lived Tawny man. I would love to hear a review about it.
Yesss, tawny man is the best! My all-time favourite book series ever
@@Sabrina-ri2qq same, Farseer was Okay, it got better as it went on, but Liveship was Amazing and Amber's presence and carving Paragons new Fitz face was beautifully done. It made me so much more invested in the Tawny man
tawny man>farseer
Oh man, Tawny Man is incredible. Even if you dont like Farseer. I'd say give Fools Errand a try and play it by ear after that.
This was a great book discussion, thank you! I'm happy to hear you liked the triology this much. 🙂
I have to agree with many others here though, Tawny Man is also a great triology (I have to admit I never had much of a problem with Fitz though). I can't recommend Tawny Man enough - for one because there are so many fascinating storylines in this book, but also because the friendship of Fitz and the Fool is really something special. Just for this alone I think it's worth giving it a try. 😊
The bond between Fitz and the Fool is something else, it grows and grows throughout the series in new and interesting ways. If anyone had tried to explain it to me I would never have guessed I would end up being so fond of that duo before reading the series.
@@andrewjames5373 Agreed. Hearing Merphy's plan to skip Tawny Man actually made me want to read it again all the more, so I just bought the audio books. I enjoy these characters so much, especially the Fool and Nighteyes.
I love your discussion about Malta and I agree with everything you said. She’s an amazing character from the beginning but not a lot of people see it. And I believe it’s the same with Sansa in A Song of Ice and Fire. I loved her from book one but no one seemed to care about her until she became assertive and the type of female fantasy character that we have been conditioned to like.
As someone who actively disliked Assassin's Quest, and took 2 years to read liveships because of it, Tawny Man is the most amazing series ever. Like, Liveship is good, but Tawny Man is just a masterpiece!
I really hope you try reading the Tawny Man trilogy. The magic systems get explored a lot more and the characters (some old some new) are fascinating to follow more like in the Liveship trilogy. Also, I really like the Outislander customs that we learn about, and I really like the exploration of the prejudice/discimination against the Wit. And I love Fitz and Nighteyes. And I think there's some payoff for mistakes/harms that Fotz has gone through in the past in his ability to do things differently and/or help others do things differently.
Oh Nighteyes. Ugh. Few characters can move me like some of his moments.
At one point I was like "oh yeah, she's gotta be the fool right?" and then later she's straight up like "I was called a fool once" and I was like AHHHH, CONFIRMATION!
Thanks for the discussion :) One thing on the Althea story arc: If you decide to read on in the realm of the elderlings, you will get more of Althea and can see how Paragon didn’t just magic everything away, but ‘only’ gave her a boost on the way of healing. But the instance is very much still with her, years later. Nevertheless, I agree that that didn’t come through that well in ship of destiny. It was also my least favourite liveship book. I hope you continue to enjoy Hobb!
I know you weren't a fan of Fitz but you should really try to give it another go. This whole serires is probably my favorite of all time and at the end it all connects so well.
LOVED the point of Malta fighting the patriarchy in her way vs Althea's. Thought that was a super interesting take!
The Tawny Man is really important if you want the full picture of the world. If it is fine with you to skip world building and want just a story then sure skip to Rain Wild Chronicles. Word of warning there will be parts then that you may not understand.
I don't get how people don't want this all to last as long as possible by skipping books!
Angela is a great guest to have on!
I saw that my cousin had one of her books! I am thinking about picking one up soon! I am considering giving this trilogy a try!
I wish there was a magic power to make trauma go away. That would be amazing. It’s a fantasy book and Hobb crafts a magic system where that is possible. these live ships can seemingly heal physical injuries as well as mental/emotional injuries. I think how Hobb dealt with Althea was good since it plays on this magic and gives her an ending where she feels more comfortable.
It’s also a metaphor for paragon ending the cycle of abuse by processing the emotions of it. I like how Hobb depicted it as something that’s forced onto others as a means of escape.
My opinion is that you totally need to read the Tawny Man Trilogy and then Rainwilds, then Fitz and the Fool. It ties everything together. You mentioned a part that got dropped 45:57, but it didn’t. Power through the series. It’s worth it.😊
Your dislike for Fitz and The Fool surprised me with how much you love friendships and found family.
Oh, ok, wow, there's a lot here.
Hi Merphy,
Malta - I appreciate that you understood her arc, and saw the value in her from the beginning. She has always reminded me of Scarlet O'Hara.
Kyle - The *visceral* hatred I feel for this character remains intense.
Kennit - Is possibly the most nuanced and brilliant characters you'll ever encounter in fiction. That his actions produce positive outcomes, is why Hobb is a genius for giving us his POV. With being in Kennit's head, we can see how 'wrong' he is. There's a lot of context around his character, and I'd love to talk to you about it.
Viviacia - In particular her reaction to Kennit, and the resulting connection that forms, is about far more than many first time readers know to look for.
Paragon - I love him. He's my favourite of the Liveship Trader characters.
I'm very happy you enjoyed the trilogy, and even happier that you're looking to go into the Rain Wilds Chronicles, though I will ask that you very much dampen your anticipation for it. There are many reasons, and again, it would be easier to discuss.
Please have a look at my channel to get a sense of my love for the series, because I'd love an opportunity to talk to you about your experience so far, and in particular get the chance to convince you to go into Tawny Man.
@Merphy Derri has read the whole series over 20 times.... listen to her! 💗
You may like Hobb’s Soldier Son trilogy. It’s a slow, painful and melancholic story. My favorite Hobb until now.
Being a one-piece fan. I will definitely give this trilogy a shot.
I have a nephew named Kyle! 🤣He's a good guy. 😎 Enjoyed the vid, thanks!
An video with a movie reference. A rare occurrence.
I do not know why I am mentioning this … but speaking of science, I am about to start working on my science-fiction/AI novel again. I will be posting updates about my progress on my writing channel. If anyone is interested!
Have subscribed! All the best.
@@shadabkhan-ng5xe Thank you. My writing channel is Britney’s Writing Corner.
I didn't know you had a writing channel ... go Britney!
@@Dougeb7 I made it a few days ago! 😁 I missed writing.
I feel so much better that you guys didn't get that amber was the fool because I thought I was totally dumb for not getting it 😂
Don’t skip tawny man. Just cause you didn’t enjoy parts of farseer doesn’t mean you won’t enjoy tawny man
I am re-reading this series again and love it. I am going to say its defiantly a female style fantasy series. Its written by a woman and the main characters are all women. Its a great read even for a male.
Love this video and your amazing channel please stay safe and enjoy your reading 📖 prayers and thoughts for you both and your amazing families love you both love your Aussie family friend John xxx love you both and your amazing channels
Just to show how dense I am. I didn't realize Amber was 'the Fool' until the first book of the next series. I know, I know, but I just thought it was another member of Fool's species. Sigh. Now I have to re-read.
I hated Malta to start and she grew into a character I loved
I really hope she didn’t skip.
Wait the whole trilogy under an hour!!! What the huh...how???
I know! I am excited to watch this!
The sassy liveship was Ophelia, and the guy's name was Grag.
You really shouldn’t spoil the Amber reveal until after Tawny Man Trilogy
Yeah i got spoiled of that in a different review video of this trilogy like come on yall...not everyone has read all the books yet. some of us have only read liveship trilogy
The problem with skipping Fitz’s story, is that the final part of the dragon/ships’ stories is in the final Fitz trilogy. The was my least favourite part of the final trilogy, that you only get the closure on the dragon/ships story from Fitz’ perspective.
If you do skip the Tawny man trilogy and jump to the rainwilds trilogy, you might have to go back to it before the Fitz and the
Fool trilogy where the bingtown-rainwilds plots and the six dutchies plots meet
I understood why paragon took her pain . He wanted to put the responsibility/ blame back on Kennit . Althea still blamed herself (not she did anything wrong) I didn’t like she had her pain removed and now she can have sex carefree with braseen 5 minutes later . Pretty weird
Ooh! Awesome!
Skip Tawny Man to RainWild, Skip the S teir series for a D tier series... Not sure of that
Even in the 90s Hobb's handing of the SA subject matter felt out of kilter and trivialising, but that may be a UK vs US bias. I honestly don't think it was just "a sign of the times".
I. Heart. Malta. That is all.
🧡📚🧡📚🧡📚🧡
I think you can get away with skipping the tawny man trilogy and go straight for the rainwilds, but not sure if you can read the last trilogy without reading the tawny man.. you don't need to read the last trilogy (its a Fitz trilogy) but it's there you get to know what happens to Althea, the liveships, wintrow, Kennits legacy and all the other characters from the liveships..
And know that the rainwilds are the least liked books in the series! It has amazing world building and you will learn more about the rainwilds! But.. the characters are not the best in the series.. and often people rate them low because of that..
I know you are skipping the tawny man, but I hope you'll give it a chance after the rainwilds.. even if Fitz still makes terrible choices, he is older, and he grows.. you might like this trilogy better than the first.. and if you read it- you can read the last trilogy and know how everything are gonna end.. for Fitz, and the liveship folks.. 😬
my, ah… my name is kyle
A couple things that seemed misinterpreted.
In one part of the video you claim that Kennit must have had feelings for Etta, since he kept going back to her only.
In reality, the first time we meet Etta he describes her as having “modest swells” and “hair short and sleek like a boy’s” a bit later the book reads “he mounted her, face down like a boy, but took her as a woman. Let no one … say that Kennit did not know the difference between the two.
We know that Kennit is strongly attracted to Wintrow and rapes Althea because they look similar. It’s implied he wanted to pass off his pain to someone else.
Also Paragon didn’t take away the pain from Althea to be this white knight. He took the pain from her because that pain belonged to him. The pain belonged to Paragon, but Kennit passed it to Althea when it was not his to give away.
I forgot Malta's name early on but remembered it was with an M, so I called her M-Lydia. Bc she seems like a lydia type character to me, but since The Lizzie Bennet Diaries kind of redeems lydia I was happy to see this lydia like character also have a good arch
Kennit is by far the best character. Glad she didn’t coward out and redeem him. A lot of the other characters felt extremely annoying, like Alithea and Kyle’s storyline. Extremely repetitive pointless family feuding.