One more thing, though that is not necessarily a unit-thing: Her Signature Weapon "Stringmaster" is also a matter as said weapon increases Yinlins ATK while she is off-field. This changes her damage contribution as well.
@@BloodAngel_San it could be enough tho, even if its atk% and not crit. this depends on the rotations too and how you are using the character. but to clear everything you want, you probably wont need her signature weapon. you only need it to clear something a bit faster. her signature will do more dmg, for sure, but she wont be useless even without it
I would like to categorize it by "on field time". If the character has the longest on field time in your team, it is the main dps. If a character has a long cooldown / energy cost where he or she does basically no damage and should be switched out, it is the sub dps.
The main problem with that is that, currently at least, basically ALL dps characters want be be on-field for quite a while. There are no characters in the game yet which fit the burst-style. But who knows what the future brings.
@@iamrivenous Really there is no one? I thought about something like. Character A: 50% of his total damage in 10s and 50% in the next 10s. Pretty stable DPS. Character B: 80% of his total damage in 10s and 20% in the next 10s. Looks kinda swapable. Thats just my headcanon, if you say there is no one like that, I believe you.
thats why i hate main and subdps terms. they lack information and can be misleading. we already have terms like on fielder and driver. why not incorporate those? characters get more complex as new ones gets released as devs try to avoid repeating kits, tying field time with the term main dps would just get worse over time. if a unit is on field most of the time but is not doing the majority of the team damage, do they fit "main" dps? if the units share similar on field times but character A deals 60% of team damage and character B is for rotation and buff setups, are we not gonna count char A as main dps because they have equal on field time? just some food for thoughts
I think you are absolutely right. Most guide maker are genshin player and sub DPS in genshin is something that there isn't here. Plus you need to build concerto so is not like swap into someone use "e" and "r" and swap out (at least usually). We should all agree on some definitions but internet is so huge that it will need time for the community to agree...how do we call the selfish DPS? The ones that are just doing damage and outro and intro are just damage? And yinlin? That is a DPS but also a buffer (and a very good one at that)...and Verina? Support? The combat in this game is peculiar and generally speaking you can use this old terminology to give a rough idea but if you want to be more specific ...you need to find the right words
You are right. I like the onfield/off-field dps are much better. People, please don't hate me for bringing Genshin. It's pretty much the case of Genshin. During years people called Xiangling subdps, because she stays almost only a couple of seconds onfield, but even paired with Raiden, Tartaglia or whatever the on field char, she outdamage them. And this is not the only example.
For yinlin to be a sub dps, she has to be on field to mark the enemies, this is why her kit gives her an on field buff, but after she has marked all enemies, Calcharo will net more dps if he triggers her marks, making yinlin a sub dps. Danjin can generate her fortie circut without hitting enemies, that looks more like a bug that will be fixed, people should not make big assumptions based on the beta
So, first of all, thanks for your comment! Regarding your first paragraph, I have a few gripes with that take. The damage dealt from yinlins judgement while she is off-field is still HER damage, not calcharos. However, and that is also a part of why they work together really well, she does not take field-time to trigger this. Secondly and that is to be fair something which indeed is unreliable (for now), at least in early theorycrafting, yinlin does MORE dps than calcharo and similar damage overall (~5% diff, but calcharo also receives yinlins buff, so yea). But this isn't final and definitive of course, hence I didn't mention it in the video. Also as said in the video, it is a very reactive game. If you need to dodge/parry a lot during calcharos ultimate, his dps is just non-existant in comparison.
@@iamrivenousYeah the term of sub dps was changed since GI community makes weird term lol. As we know sub dps is the one who contribute lower dmg than main dps. Meanwhile in GI sub dps is the one who contribute dmg while it off field fighting. Even some GI charas contribute more dmg while off field they called it sub dps and the one who contribute less dmg on field cuz it need more time on field they called it main dps lol
@@Woa_Hamstar in GI sub dps = deals dmg but isn't on field. now what char you use that stays on-field is upto you. If the char deals more dps than sub-dps it becomes a main dps. If it does not deal more dmg but instead helps sub-dps deal more dmg are called drivers. And also bcz of GI's unique elemental reaction mech you can make any car sub or main dps given they can apply their element onto enemies consistantly
@@Alvis183 this is what i talk about that GI com makes weird term, since long time ago the term main dps is the one who contribute more damage, and sub dps is the one who contribute less dmg but still acceptable as damage dealer. Didn't you know that Xiangling contribute more dmg than Tartaglia? Xiangling is the main dps who has role off field damage dealer them Tartaglia is the sub dps who has role on field damage dealer. And also since HSR released, the term chara in turn based game went weird cuz of HSR community. There's damage dealer who make damage, support that can do buffing or debuffing, sustainer that can do tank or healing. But when HSR community appear Damage Dealer became DPS 🤣 what a funny terms, support only do buff 😂 ah it's not make a sense
@@Woa_Hamstar well over half of HSR community came from genshin so it's understandable that they use weird terminology like that 😂also tartaglia in that team works as an driver, not main dps.
The game has yet to come out so I do agree with you in using more familiar terms for now. Guides are exactly that; helps you navigate a lot of info and turn it into manageable chunks then executing it in the game. This means they're not set in stone or a one all be all thing. It'll be better for players to interact with the familiar
Calcharo and Yinlin is such a waste imo. Each can be a main DPS for 2 separate teams. I, personally, will be playing Yinlin with Yuanwu (off-field DMG, receiver of Yinlin’s outro buff, and quick-swap) and Baizhi (as her buffer and healer). I have Verina, but I’ll stick her with my Jiyan since he can receive Verina’s buff even when swapping from Verina to Mortefi first-unlike Baizhi who will give buff to the next character.
Calcharo and Yinlin are like Ratio and Topaz, one hits harder but the other attacks faster resulting on similar dps and also Topaz and Yinlin buff the other
The problem here is the approach people are doing with WuWa, they assumed combat in WuWa would work like Genshin. Now that the game is out we can say the combat is vastly different. Even the early Tartaglia x Xiangling comp can't compare since Genshin has elemental reactions, Tartaglia applies hydro so fast it enables Xiangling to reverse vape with her burst all the time making her deal more damage while being off field hence why the debate back then is who the main and the sub dps bet. the two is. In WuWa there are no elemental reactions, it's just on field dps, off field dps,buffer and/or healer(Verina), but with intro and outro buffs and effects. Calcharo would deal more damage once he gets buffs from Yinlin but Yinlin would still deal damage even while off field making them almost equal in value as DPS
Support - Either Healer/Debuffer/Buffer DPS - Either on-field or off-field This is probably the best way to describe team roles. The amount of damage will always be subjective, it's better to consider how they do it. Mix the two if the character just does that much, off-field debuffer, or something.
My 2 cents is that i personally think Yinlin is a dps that can do both on-field and off-field dmg. The punishment mark's damage seems to be scaled off of her own stats, not the current on-field character's so you have to count that as her dmg, not Calcharo's, for example. She will want to have less on-screen time than other dps units, but that doesn't mean she won't have ANY (Like Xingqiu or Xiangling, for example, where you just swap them in, press a button and swap out), especially because most of her damage still requires her to be on field. I think the better term for defining her role would be something like "Off-field Carry" or "Swap Carry". I also think that terms like "Main DPS" and "Sub DPS" doesn't fit into WuWa very well.
first of all I have not played Wuwa and I just watched some videos about the game I think one of the most important thing to mention is the main dps and sub-dps are probably terms taken from the GI community, in GI main dps means the character who stays on the field the most while sub dps usually refer to the characters that do damage while being off field I think the reason for these terms is how sub dps characters in general can be used as a main dps as well, but since it's not efficient to use them as a main dps they are referred to as sub dps, for example take xiangling is a character that can most of its damage even though it's not on field, and this character obviously can be used as a main dps (on field character) but it will be a waste to use her instead of letting another character be the main dps since she can just be an off field character I believe this is why Yinlin is refered to as a sub-dps, she probably can do lots of damage while being off field, so you can save a slot for another character as a main dps this means main dps usually is refered to the characters that can't do much damage when they leave the field of course these terms are tricky and not 100% accurate, and even each one may end up using them in a different way, and I don't know how wuwa works compared to GI this is my input thank you for reading
If you're tryna make categories, you can just stick to: Damage Dealer & Support Those can be broken down into: Damage Dealer: On-fielder/Off-fielder/Quick Swap Damage Dealer Support: Offensive Support/Defensive Support I feel as though those 5 categories are perfectly self-explanatory and encompass all roles a character could take. If need need be, characters can receive hybrid terms too e.g Furina (from Genshin Impact) would be an Off-field Damage Dealer/Offensive support
Wouldn't it be better to compare this game's team setups with PGR over games like Genshin? like some comments have said, none of the characters are currently built to deal proper off-field dmg which is similar to how it works in PGR. Swapping off of the attacker was still important because of downtime, and in these cases the tank (they're actually debuffers but game calls them tanks) or even support usually filled said downtime with their own respectable dps while giving buffs and debuffs while not on field. A good comparison for Calcharo & Yinlin to PGR would be CrimsonWeave & Feralscent; where CrimsonWeave is the main dps as she does most of the damage but offers no buffs to the party while FeralScent is able to give buffs off-field to increase that damage further but also deals her own damage when on field. The 2 characters have similar damage numbers when at similar investment, the only difference is that one can give buffs off-field while the other deals more damage cause of said buff.
I may be crazy, and i may just be coping bc I want yinlin yet dislike calcharo gameplay, but I feel like she can work fantastically with a encore. people say they have ZERO synergy, and while the electro dmg bonus of yinlin is wasted, both of them are good on field, and off field dps, and encore gets a ton of dps in her ult, which yinlin can buff, so my hypothetical team is yinlin, encore, verina, and I'd quick swap in for encore skill/rage bomb thing, swap back to yinlin, build concerto and use her on field with skills, and swap back into encore using yinlin outro to buff her ult and let yinlin skills do more off field dps. call me crazy, but im banking on this team personally
Main DPS or Sub DPS, On-field or Off-field, Burst or Steady, it’s all the same. I think it’s best to put them all under the umbrella of DPS and figure out how they play from there. Main vs Sub tells me nothing, but specifying that Character A has more burst dmg while Character B has more consistent dmg does. In this scenario the move usually is to have Character A go through their burst, then switch to Character B for more consistent dmg while you wait for Character A’s CDs. Rinse and repeat
As a genshin TC interested in doing some small math on wuwa as well I can say, I have and will refer to the roles as I did in genshin. MainDPS was a convoluted term in genshin, but in my community I established the maindps being the one taking more screentime than the others, subdps being offielders (yes, even tho xiangling does the most teamdps she is a subdps in my definition) and buff- and utility supports kinda explain themselves. Also, being someone that plays burgeon kuki (c6 bennet, kuki, xingqui and nahida) I do refer to kuki as maindps in that exact composition. Long speak short: Maindps is always the one you make your maindps, it's only about how you play. In the end, onfield dps and offield dps might just be better descriptions especially in wuwa. But that's only my take
I haven't played the game myself but I think the existence of the forte abilities encourage much longer field times for your team than Genshin Impact. Probably why the team size is 3 characters rather than 4.
i tend to separate characters into main on-fielder, offensive support and defensive support main on-fielder drives the team by either doing damage or enabling off-fielders offensive support assists the main on-fielder by doing damage or helping them do damage (buffing, debuffing or dealing damage themselves) defensive support allows rest of the team to stay alive by proactively or reactively hindering opponents ability to hurt them (healing, stalling, I-frames or shielding) all of these are on a spectrum, with a hybrid of offensive and defensive support being preferable over pure defensive support for better players
what ppl fail to realise is that u can use calcharo as a nuke with his burst in a yinlin team. you can out on ER and liberation resonance dmg to just swap him in, nuke with ult, swap back, no need to even attack with him in his ult state, the initial burst is enough
Hi i dont know if you remember me but we talked about this in your discord a couple of days ago. Really cool that you made a video regarding this topic. Great video and keep up the good work :)
just because her having the ability to do damage off field and even if damage scaling of future DPS is way higher , she can still work in your team if you like to play with her
Im honesty so happy that her role is so undecided by the comunity cus i really want to pair her up with Lingyang so if she works as a sub DPS than thats a huge win for my future team.
Honestly, I'm just going by my PGR experience. Whoever buffs and heals is the Support I don't have a sub-dps. I have a SYNCHRONIZER; anyone that can enhance my ATTACKER's dmg output. My only requirement for a Synchronizer is they have a kit and accesible weapon that can quickly funnel Concerto energy for fast outro skills + Impermanence Heron and Moonlit Set. I have Sanhua for Linyang and Encore Mortefi for Jinyang Taoqi for Chixia Danjin for Rover Synchronizers aren't SUPPORTS or SUB-DPS, they are AMPLIFIERS, which is something different from the likes of Verina and Baizhi who are more of General Enhancers
A main dps is the role the character plays on the team. Its usually the character that requires the most field time to apply its damage. A sub dps - even ones that do more damage than the main - is one that does damage off field or bursts and passes. Its not difficult to understand. Arguing that a sub dps is actually a main dps because most of the damage comes from the sub dps is purely symantics and doesnt really matter. The point of these terms is to adequately describe the roles each character plays on the team, not necessarily about who is dealing the most damage.
in that team yinlin is a offfield dps(not sub dps) calchero is an onfield dps(not main dps) since if you compare the dmg increase yinlin would have if she was on field to what dmg she and calchero do when he is on field it simply makes alot more sence
For the sake of honesty, I have long understood this, I play Genshin and for example there is Raiden, who has the ability to cause damage without directly playing on the battlefield, and at the same time she plays perfectly on the battlefield - but for those who understand, I will explain, Raiden through “Elemental Mastery” extremely well and constantly closes any reactions personally, so she can easily bear the title of “Sup-DPS”, but at the same time, she is the “main-DPS”, but if you don’t have strong artifacts for her or the necessary command for her, she will deal damage poorly. So this theory does not work even in Genshin. The problem is that this whole theory was dragged into these games from other games with completely different genres, and they tried to PULL an owl onto a globe, in the end it all works within very strict limits, and if you take a step to the side, this “house of cards” literally breaks down before our eyes, conditionally: you cannot explain to a beginner what, how and most importantly WHY it works. Since a beginner will ask questions that do not fit into this stupid terminology. At the same time, similar terminology works great in other games, because if you try to make Nami into a killer in League of Legends, she will clearly lose to all the other DDs. This is the whole point - terminology should not be stretched like a mask, it should exist inside the game, and alas, in Genshin they could not do it correctly, which is why now all games of this genre are doomed to suffer from this stupid crap. For example, I don’t want CUMcharo for myself at all, so what should I do now? xd (Moreover, it is too inconvenient to constantly play two characters at the same time, someone will lose damage one way or another) thank you for your attention, i am cumming now. xd
i mean in my view point, main dps is reliant on on field capability to dish out damage where as sub dps can also do damage off field, you can potentially use the sub dps as main dps if you want. However, I think sub dps's like yin lin are more flexible. Even though there is a part of yinlin's kit that requires her to be on field, she's is a more generalized version of dps than calcharo because calcharo strictly relies on being on field. That's why the calcharo yinlin synergy is so good though because you can have yinlin do damage in the background while calcharo does damage on field which is better than both of them being on field alone. Therefore, isn't it better, like numbers wise to use yinlin with calcharo instead of as a main dps? I mean its preferential too I suppose. I think sub dps is sort of a mis nomer in the sense that it implies the supports do less damage and are off field but doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I think sub dps's increased flexibility is what classifies them as such and their damage increasing capability all of which yinlin has. tldr: She's like the yelan from genshin impact of this game in my perspective
Her signature weapon kind of tell me she's meant to play as sub-dps. Tho she does have a passive that makes take field time but every sub-dps is like that in the game showing its early stage. Just like PGR and other early gacha the devs don't their game's own meta for the time being. The keys playstyle are clearly quickswap or hypercarry buff. Also double dps but this will only work if the off field character does a lot of damage and with a lot off field field time while the on field straight up does more damage on field. Calcharo and Yinlin issue is that Yinlin deals as much damage as Calcharo on field but then she can also deal damage off field so adding both makes her do more. She also does more dps than he does.
Main and Sub DPS is obsolete to me. On Field and Off Field DPS makes more sense, and heck you can even conjoin both of them. Example is of course Jensheen's OPPA XL, She's your Off Field Main DPS, that's why she's always top tier, she deals on average the DPS you would expect from an On Field Main DPS but Off Field so you can do more DPS with someone on the field. So if Yinlin also deals the most damage in your team while being Off Field, then she's basically your Off Field Main DPS too. OPPA XL Tier.
It also is such dependend on your team. If you have any teammember which is able to restore enough concerto for yinlin to just need the second rotation, that would make her much more of an off-field dps than if not. Also depends on your weapon as well. There are many variables to take into account
Meanwhile Tartaglia and Xiangling. The main is Tartaglia and Xiangling is sub. But in reality Xiangling contribute more dmg than Tartaglia 😂 genshin community such in nut shell doesn't know the term main and sub, even the official always put description if blabla character is on field or off field dps they still don't know what the difference main-sub dps or on-off field dps
@@Woa_HamstarI agree, tartaglia is a driver to increase xiangling's DMG by vaping. The same goes for alhaitham's hyperbloom team, kuki/electro applier does the most damage while alhaitham applies dendro constantly. Genshin has reactions so u can't compare it to wuthering waves combat system... And genshin players consider character who spend most time on field as dps and off field DMG as sub dps... People should know what dps and sub dps actually means....
@@Woa_Hamstar The problem is that people are using the wrong words. Off field isn't synonymous with sub-DPS. It's worse in Genshin because elemental application essentially created two roles - on field applicator (aka driver) and off field applicator (which usually doesn't get a special name). And as rivenous says in the video, Wuwa will be too quick-swappy and reactive to pull off perfect rotations, roles aren't as concrete yet.
should i use Yinlin + Sanhua + Yuanwu together (or maybe duo Yinlin + Sanhua/Jianxin // Yinlin + Sanhua)? i want her as a main DPS, my supports already busy with another DPS, Havoc MC and Calcharo. What do you guys think?
i think the simplst solution would be to categorize them as "on field" and "off field" dps, since that avoid the muddy part of having to determine who is bringing the highest dps to the team and only care about the distribution of dmg in that character itself. is most of its dmg dealt while on screen? then on field dps. is most of the dmg is while off screen? then off field dps. if a unit happen to have a relatively balanced distribution of dmg between on field and off field, then it can simply be categorized as an hybrid or another similar term
Surely it's too early to make any team building assumptions? There is a good chance, if I am making assumptions though, that the future team builds will be healer/amplifier, tank/sub-dps and main DPS. possible that twin DPS set ups will be a thing too. This is how things are done in punishing gray raven, kuros other game.
2:08 I think using main dps and sub dps is dumb anyways. Should be using the same terminology Genshin has been using for ages. On field DPS and off field DPS. She is an off field DPS, making how much dps she adds an irrelevant metric when considering her role.
I did not play the beta so i don't like to talk about something i've not tested myself, but i think combat whise this game is more similar to honkai impact 3rd than genshin. Now, in honkai impact 3rd you can run 2 supp valk and a damage valk but there are also teams were two damage dealers has a lot of synergies and they are meant to be played together, with one menat ti be the maindps. Normally subdpses has something to increase the damage output of the maindps while he is doing damage, menawhile maindps is way more selfish. So, if yinlin mechanics increase carcharo's damage but calcharo do not increase her damage, then yes, she is probably meant to be the subdps. Obviously subdpses can be played also as maindps, that is why people get confused. Xianling's kit is a subdps kit cause she has offfield damage but also a way to increase the main dps damage. But in a lot of the team she ends up being the maindps cause of how much damage she does. So, maybe here could be the same? Maybe her kit is meant to be a subdps, cause she enables other dps, but she endup do more damage then calcharo cause she is limited and so she is the real maindps of that team. Could it be the case?
About minute 7 in the video, I want to share a personal experience. As a TH-camr who focused on creating content about Genshin Impact upon its release, I found myself in a strange position. While many in my country were building Mona as a sub DPS and emphasizing energy recharge in her stats, I took a different build. Despite facing mockery from the community and even other TH-camrs, I stood by my belief that Mona shouldn't be built solely for energy recharge. Within just one month of the game's release, my perspective on Mona proved to be ahead of the curve. I became a reference point for discussions about Mona because I looked beyond conventional labels. My point here is to encourage fellow TH-camrs not to censor themselves or conform to the game community expectations blindly. Instead, prioritize your followers and their needs over conforming to the gaming community's norms and terms.
Genshin and this game are definitely not comparable at least in terms of combat, by that i dont mean one is superior to other. Since genshin has an entirely different element system, things dont make sense when u compare the combat to genshin... Cus in genshin terms dps and sub dps express the amount of time u spend on-field with a character. But in wuthering waves each character NEEDS to stay on field to utilise all the aspects of their kit, not doing so will only decrease their personal DMG
@@wtfishtisLoL now that she’s released, she is a SUB-DPS. Her kit and even her sig weapon screams sub-dps. Weapon passive incentivize off-field Yinlin with 12% additional atk.
I am 100% certain this entire assumption is just made up by a vocal minority of genshin players who cant think or read. It was the same when HSR released. Some ppl were saying Bailu is a bad character cuz they thought she was the QQ of HSR. How did they reach this intellectual conclusion? Cuz both smol, both water/ice element, both heal, both standard banner. And now we have yinlin who visually resembles Fischl gameplay, purple lightning element, rotating animations, summons puppet/raven, therefore sub dps.
I personally don't think the terms Main and Sub Dps apply very well in WuWa. I'll stick with just: Anyone who deals SIGNIFICANT DMG is a dmg dealer Anyone FOCUSED on buffing/debuffing is a buffer/debuffer Anyone who's primary role is to heal or shield or take dmg is a defensive utility
DPS can only apply dmg while one field SUB-DPS is a DPS with supportive capabilities. Support main use isn't for DMG but for something else. Smart people like to over complicate things....pls don't.
To be honest i like your videos but this has to be one of the worst takes of all time, every example you gave was bad or nonsensical. She is by default a sub dps due to her outro skill and anyone who played cbt2 knows this. Calcharo had more dps even without her buff on endgame bosses, also future 5 star electro dps is likely to be better than calcharo which will again make her sub. Can she be used as a main dps sure every sub can. Danjin also by default is designed to be sub, enter field do quick insane burst then outro skill to buff the next havoc character. Yes she was way too op on cbt2 but again if she gets nerfed future 5 star havoc character will be the main dps and danjin will be a sub buffing them with outro skill. Tldr - if the devs give a character an outro skill that buffs another dps but dont do much dmg they are likely to be a support.. - if the devs give a character an outro skill that buffs another dps but they can also do quick bursty dps first they are likely to be sub.
First of all, thanks for your comment! I'll start wirth you last paragraph: Just because the devs intended something, doesn't mean that is how it will turn out down the line. But that is a different matter, and how exactly that will turn out, we will have to see when the game actually releases. To add, many many times before, other games have shown how things change over the course of time. For Genshin, we can take Raiden as an example. Considered subdps before people found out she can also be easily played as main DPS in certain comps. We will see what the future brings. However, my point in the video was not to argue if she is a main DPS or a sub DPS. I argued she is not a subDPS because the term doesn't make a lot of sense in WuWa. We have DPS characters and non-dps characters (as of right now, that is important), since nearly all character require quite a bit of fieldtime due to the concerto mechanic. Secondly, Yinlin does NOT do burstDPS. Actually 48% of her total damage is considered Skill damage. Of these 48%, only 11% are Judgement damage (which is her off-field damage), the other 37% are damage dealt by her, well, Skill. Danjin is a totally different matter lol, that unit is just insanely overtuned, ESPECIALLY for a 4*.
This sounds wrong. Dealing damage has different factors. Dealing more damage does not constitute this character as a "main dps" Is could come down to gear/levels/echoes/skills usage. What makes a "main dps" in a team is a fact that a certain character is best utilized as an on-field damage dealer, while others in a team support him from off-field with abilities. Calcharo is not a good support for Yinlin, Yinlin is a good support for calcharo. That's just it. That said, this doesnt mean that you cannot play Yinlin as an on-field damage dealer and choise between Calcharo/YInlin as a pick for on-field main dps could come down to simple numbers game/
Danjin is just skill dependent overall. She has an hp mechanic that constantly lowers her health. So if you don't have a healer like Baizhi or Verina, or a shielder like Jianxin, she tends to be very squishy if you don't have the skills to dodge enemy hits. So if you're a good player and can dodge well, Danjin is a good DPS. But if you can't dodge as well or just get hit a lot over all, Danjin isn't the best choice. But she can damage scale well with Jiyan or Calcharo. You either just have to be very good at the game or have consistent healing/shielding.
@@alastar2222 yea i like she, i main her for now, so funny to play, just i be worried because in lvl 90 she have 290atack aprox but calcharo and jiyan +400 that is why i ask to dont use resurce for nothing haha
@@Caramelo25 it might be more a case of attack speed. I'm not sure if calcharo or jiyan have faster attacks than Danjin, but it might be the reason why her damage is lower. Usually, faster attack speed means lower attack numbers because of how fast they deal damage. Either way, she's worth it. If you like her, play her. You don't need a well rounded team with Dps, sub dps, support in WuWa.
The terms main and sub dps are not really well defined. I think when people call a character like Yinlin a 'subdps' they mean that character can do off-field damage. It's muddied even more by the fact that Yinlin can absolutely be played as an 'on-field' dps, making her a 'maindps.' She's just a very versatile character. Pretty sure you could play this game just switching back and forth between two 'subdps' and have no maindps at all. Honestly unless someone defines their terms upfront I personally find the entire discourse tedious. I prefer discussing things in terms of team synergy.
Just call her a dps. Main or sub dps is a term that I dont feel is so important in a game where each character spends so much time on the field. Enter the field, do your rotation and change characters. One supp, two dps go.
There is a thing that I don’t understand, who is the best dps between those 2? I mean it’s clear that depends how you play a char but it is also clear that a character has more dps potential than other, so if those 2 char has the same equip and the sa,e player, which one has the most dps output?
@@gmrz1100 I can when the game is released. Before that unfortunately not cause I dont wanna get striked lol. Feel free to message me on discord for some screenshots
You do realise that if you are playing yinlin and calcharo properly, yinlin has plenty of field time? You want to be charging calcharo to 3 stacks or 5 stacks if he is in his ult and when he goes in the air you can swap out. I’ve seen videos where she is played at a very high level and she basically has the same screen time and calcharo and they often are attacking at the same time
You like it or not sub dps and main dps in this context will probably stick. It is easier to tell than off field support dps and on field burst dps in example of yinlin and calcharo. (Even if it is more descriptive and informative)
We will see. In the end I don't really care what terms we stick with, we could also just call them blue and green as well. I just mostly think that these two terms dont fit the traditional way of how they are perceived. Which could lead to confusion early on. But who knows, I'm also happy to be proven wrong. Thanks for your comment!
Out of the two upcoming rate up who should be a higher priority? Jiyan or Yinlin if we are talking meta assuming they don't change anything from the beta
Yinlin was better in beta and looks more future proof. But with leaks next one after them look more promising. But given how it is heavily skill based game it is more important that they are good for you not that they are the best.
Honestly, what @offnet6934 said. Jiyan does not have the greatest single target damage and hence falls behind against solo boss encounters, which the higher floors of Tower Of Adversity have. Yinlin works still really well these scenarios and can also be utilized as a supportive dps for other electro dps. Which currently is only Calcharo, but the future will bring us more.
I love your videos but this one feels like a miss. You take a long time describing what most games already have keywords for. You're describing burst damage versus sustained DPS. Everywhere I look people classify her as DPS/Sub DPS. That is to say most people suggest she can be either which is exactly what you are saying. I think the big discrepancy between your hot take and others is your goals. Based on your videos that I've seen you have a huge focus on early game which is great because it's unique, but others are planning around longevity. In the long run the characters built for support and swap in burst DPS have a longer shelf life. Furthermore, as you point out every character can be a DPS so in this game having the option to be a sub DPS is actually the rarer quality
Then she is an OFF FIELD DPS. Dps literally mean Damage per second, if she’s the character doing the most damage, she is your main dps, regardless of her being in or off the field. This confusion came from the fact that usually the character that does the most damage is the one that takes the majority of the field time, but it’s not mandatory it does. Not too surprised Genshin players don’t understand that, as when it comes this types of games they are usually… not the brightest
@@enzo8941 the point of the comment was to say subdps often means off field dps in the case of genshin, and similar case here. The only other use case I can see of the term would be traditional dps during main dps down time but that seems quite wrong to say since no teams move in that direction
@@redstonedeathdrive3519 i understood it, but it seems you didn’t understand me. The point i was trying to make is that the Genshin community takes terms used on other video games an misinterprets them, giving them a new meaning.
Not yet sorry! That sheet is provided by KSM/Low Priority and the game is not released yet, which also means we can not guarantee said information to be correct and accurate with the release version. However, all sheets will be available when the game is released
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One more thing, though that is not necessarily a unit-thing: Her Signature Weapon "Stringmaster" is also a matter as said weapon increases Yinlins ATK while she is off-field. This changes her damage contribution as well.
Plz tell me should I not pull for her signature if I am going on field dps maybe it will be a dps loss
@@NIL0KNOWLEDGE probably not. its increasing her off field attack. i think the regular 5 star of her type will be good enough for field dps
@@Bluerything thankyou for answering yeah Ill just pick the standard rectifier from the weapon selector
@@Bluerything probably not, Regular mage weapon in Atk% secondary stat
@@BloodAngel_San it could be enough tho, even if its atk% and not crit. this depends on the rotations too and how you are using the character. but to clear everything you want, you probably wont need her signature weapon. you only need it to clear something a bit faster. her signature will do more dmg, for sure, but she wont be useless even without it
all goes back to xiangling again
The first thing i see after clicking this video is xiangling 💀💀 i cant escape her 😭😭
the dps were the friends we made along the way
TBH nothing in PGR was, so probably same here.
DPS is a DPS
Sub DPS is a DPS
Support is a DPS
Healer is a DPS
I would like to categorize it by "on field time".
If the character has the longest on field time in your team, it is the main dps.
If a character has a long cooldown / energy cost where he or she does basically no damage and should be switched out, it is the sub dps.
The main problem with that is that, currently at least, basically ALL dps characters want be be on-field for quite a while. There are no characters in the game yet which fit the burst-style. But who knows what the future brings.
@@iamrivenous Really there is no one? I thought about something like.
Character A: 50% of his total damage in 10s and 50% in the next 10s. Pretty stable DPS.
Character B: 80% of his total damage in 10s and 20% in the next 10s. Looks kinda swapable.
Thats just my headcanon, if you say there is no one like that, I believe you.
@@EleKartoffel Counter-Question: Why swap into character B at all after they did their burst? Wouldn't you just lose out on DPS?
@@iamrivenous It's only one example, but wouldn't mortefi fit that description?
thats why i hate main and subdps terms. they lack information and can be misleading. we already have terms like on fielder and driver. why not incorporate those? characters get more complex as new ones gets released as devs try to avoid repeating kits, tying field time with the term main dps would just get worse over time.
if a unit is on field most of the time but is not doing the majority of the team damage, do they fit "main" dps? if the units share similar on field times but character A deals 60% of team damage and character B is for rotation and buff setups, are we not gonna count char A as main dps because they have equal on field time? just some food for thoughts
I think you are absolutely right. Most guide maker are genshin player and sub DPS in genshin is something that there isn't here. Plus you need to build concerto so is not like swap into someone use "e" and "r" and swap out (at least usually). We should all agree on some definitions but internet is so huge that it will need time for the community to agree...how do we call the selfish DPS? The ones that are just doing damage and outro and intro are just damage? And yinlin? That is a DPS but also a buffer (and a very good one at that)...and Verina? Support? The combat in this game is peculiar and generally speaking you can use this old terminology to give a rough idea but if you want to be more specific ...you need to find the right words
You are right. I like the onfield/off-field dps are much better. People, please don't hate me for bringing Genshin. It's pretty much the case of Genshin. During years people called Xiangling subdps, because she stays almost only a couple of seconds onfield, but even paired with Raiden, Tartaglia or whatever the on field char, she outdamage them. And this is not the only example.
Ahh true, Xiangling in this team the true main dps who off field while makes damage.
its always xiangling, i cant escape
Your assumption that sub-dps = less damage is the problem.
For yinlin to be a sub dps, she has to be on field to mark the enemies, this is why her kit gives her an on field buff, but after she has marked all enemies, Calcharo will net more dps if he triggers her marks, making yinlin a sub dps.
Danjin can generate her fortie circut without hitting enemies, that looks more like a bug that will be fixed, people should not make big assumptions based on the beta
So, first of all, thanks for your comment! Regarding your first paragraph, I have a few gripes with that take. The damage dealt from yinlins judgement while she is off-field is still HER damage, not calcharos. However, and that is also a part of why they work together really well, she does not take field-time to trigger this. Secondly and that is to be fair something which indeed is unreliable (for now), at least in early theorycrafting, yinlin does MORE dps than calcharo and similar damage overall (~5% diff, but calcharo also receives yinlins buff, so yea). But this isn't final and definitive of course, hence I didn't mention it in the video. Also as said in the video, it is a very reactive game. If you need to dodge/parry a lot during calcharos ultimate, his dps is just non-existant in comparison.
@@iamrivenousYeah the term of sub dps was changed since GI community makes weird term lol. As we know sub dps is the one who contribute lower dmg than main dps. Meanwhile in GI sub dps is the one who contribute dmg while it off field fighting. Even some GI charas contribute more dmg while off field they called it sub dps and the one who contribute less dmg on field cuz it need more time on field they called it main dps lol
@@Woa_Hamstar in GI sub dps = deals dmg but isn't on field. now what char you use that stays on-field is upto you. If the char deals more dps than sub-dps it becomes a main dps. If it does not deal more dmg but instead helps sub-dps deal more dmg are called drivers. And also bcz of GI's unique elemental reaction mech you can make any car sub or main dps given they can apply their element onto enemies consistantly
@@Alvis183 this is what i talk about that GI com makes weird term, since long time ago the term main dps is the one who contribute more damage, and sub dps is the one who contribute less dmg but still acceptable as damage dealer. Didn't you know that Xiangling contribute more dmg than Tartaglia? Xiangling is the main dps who has role off field damage dealer them Tartaglia is the sub dps who has role on field damage dealer.
And also since HSR released, the term chara in turn based game went weird cuz of HSR community. There's damage dealer who make damage, support that can do buffing or debuffing, sustainer that can do tank or healing. But when HSR community appear Damage Dealer became DPS 🤣 what a funny terms, support only do buff 😂 ah it's not make a sense
@@Woa_Hamstar well over half of HSR community came from genshin so it's understandable that they use weird terminology like that 😂also tartaglia in that team works as an driver, not main dps.
The game has yet to come out so I do agree with you in using more familiar terms for now. Guides are exactly that; helps you navigate a lot of info and turn it into manageable chunks then executing it in the game. This means they're not set in stone or a one all be all thing. It'll be better for players to interact with the familiar
I don't care even if she's a support I just want her lol
I never wanted a character this bad since Himeko
Sub-dps doesn't mean they deal less damage than the main dps....
Calcharo and Yinlin is such a waste imo. Each can be a main DPS for 2 separate teams. I, personally, will be playing Yinlin with Yuanwu (off-field DMG, receiver of Yinlin’s outro buff, and quick-swap) and Baizhi (as her buffer and healer). I have Verina, but I’ll stick her with my Jiyan since he can receive Verina’s buff even when swapping from Verina to Mortefi first-unlike Baizhi who will give buff to the next character.
Calcharo and Yinlin are like Ratio and Topaz, one hits harder but the other attacks faster resulting on similar dps and also Topaz and Yinlin buff the other
The problem here is the approach people are doing with WuWa, they assumed combat in WuWa would work like Genshin. Now that the game is out we can say the combat is vastly different.
Even the early Tartaglia x Xiangling comp can't compare since Genshin has elemental reactions, Tartaglia applies hydro so fast it enables Xiangling to reverse vape with her burst all the time making her deal more damage while being off field hence why the debate back then is who the main and the sub dps bet. the two is.
In WuWa there are no elemental reactions, it's just on field dps, off field dps,buffer and/or healer(Verina), but with intro and outro buffs and effects.
Calcharo would deal more damage once he gets buffs from Yinlin but Yinlin would still deal damage even while off field making them almost equal in value as DPS
Support - Either Healer/Debuffer/Buffer
DPS - Either on-field or off-field
This is probably the best way to describe team roles. The amount of damage will always be subjective, it's better to consider how they do it. Mix the two if the character just does that much, off-field debuffer, or something.
My 2 cents is that i personally think Yinlin is a dps that can do both on-field and off-field dmg. The punishment mark's damage seems to be scaled off of her own stats, not the current on-field character's so you have to count that as her dmg, not Calcharo's, for example. She will want to have less on-screen time than other dps units, but that doesn't mean she won't have ANY (Like Xingqiu or Xiangling, for example, where you just swap them in, press a button and swap out), especially because most of her damage still requires her to be on field. I think the better term for defining her role would be something like "Off-field Carry" or "Swap Carry".
I also think that terms like "Main DPS" and "Sub DPS" doesn't fit into WuWa very well.
first of all I have not played Wuwa and I just watched some videos about the game
I think one of the most important thing to mention is the main dps and sub-dps are probably terms taken from the GI community, in GI main dps means the character who stays on the field the most while sub dps usually refer to the characters that do damage while being off field
I think the reason for these terms is how sub dps characters in general can be used as a main dps as well, but since it's not efficient to use them as a main dps they are referred to as sub dps, for example take xiangling is a character that can most of its damage even though it's not on field, and this character obviously can be used as a main dps (on field character) but it will be a waste to use her instead of letting another character be the main dps since she can just be an off field character
I believe this is why Yinlin is refered to as a sub-dps, she probably can do lots of damage while being off field, so you can save a slot for another character as a main dps
this means main dps usually is refered to the characters that can't do much damage when they leave the field
of course these terms are tricky and not 100% accurate, and even each one may end up using them in a different way, and I don't know how wuwa works compared to GI
this is my input thank you for reading
nice vid.
i was gonna get verina 1st on selector then get yinlin as main dps
me too
I dont really care too much about min max dps. As long as she get the job done that's good enough for me
If you're tryna make categories, you can just stick to: Damage Dealer & Support
Those can be broken down into:
Damage Dealer:
On-fielder/Off-fielder/Quick Swap Damage Dealer
Support:
Offensive Support/Defensive Support
I feel as though those 5 categories are perfectly self-explanatory and encompass all roles a character could take. If need need be, characters can receive hybrid terms too
e.g Furina (from Genshin Impact) would be an Off-field Damage Dealer/Offensive support
Like raiden (hypercarry & sub dps )just cos she has off field capabilities doesn't make her sub dps
Wouldn't it be better to compare this game's team setups with PGR over games like Genshin? like some comments have said, none of the characters are currently built to deal proper off-field dmg which is similar to how it works in PGR. Swapping off of the attacker was still important because of downtime, and in these cases the tank (they're actually debuffers but game calls them tanks) or even support usually filled said downtime with their own respectable dps while giving buffs and debuffs while not on field.
A good comparison for Calcharo & Yinlin to PGR would be CrimsonWeave & Feralscent; where CrimsonWeave is the main dps as she does most of the damage but offers no buffs to the party while FeralScent is able to give buffs off-field to increase that damage further but also deals her own damage when on field. The 2 characters have similar damage numbers when at similar investment, the only difference is that one can give buffs off-field while the other deals more damage cause of said buff.
Disclaimer: I havent played PGR.
Given it is a Kuro game that seems like the approach they are taking, yes
I may be crazy, and i may just be coping bc I want yinlin yet dislike calcharo gameplay, but I feel like she can work fantastically with a encore. people say they have ZERO synergy, and while the electro dmg bonus of yinlin is wasted, both of them are good on field, and off field dps, and encore gets a ton of dps in her ult, which yinlin can buff, so my hypothetical team is yinlin, encore, verina, and I'd quick swap in for encore skill/rage bomb thing, swap back to yinlin, build concerto and use her on field with skills, and swap back into encore using yinlin outro to buff her ult and let yinlin skills do more off field dps. call me crazy, but im banking on this team personally
Main DPS or Sub DPS, On-field or Off-field, Burst or Steady, it’s all the same.
I think it’s best to put them all under the umbrella of DPS and figure out how they play from there. Main vs Sub tells me nothing, but specifying that Character A has more burst dmg while Character B has more consistent dmg does.
In this scenario the move usually is to have Character A go through their burst, then switch to Character B for more consistent dmg while you wait for Character A’s CDs. Rinse and repeat
As a genshin TC interested in doing some small math on wuwa as well I can say, I have and will refer to the roles as I did in genshin. MainDPS was a convoluted term in genshin, but in my community I established the maindps being the one taking more screentime than the others, subdps being offielders (yes, even tho xiangling does the most teamdps she is a subdps in my definition) and buff- and utility supports kinda explain themselves. Also, being someone that plays burgeon kuki (c6 bennet, kuki, xingqui and nahida) I do refer to kuki as maindps in that exact composition. Long speak short: Maindps is always the one you make your maindps, it's only about how you play. In the end, onfield dps and offield dps might just be better descriptions especially in wuwa. But that's only my take
I haven't played the game myself but I think the existence of the forte abilities encourage much longer field times for your team than Genshin Impact. Probably why the team size is 3 characters rather than 4.
You are prob the best wuwa cc rn
Thank you, much appreciated! However, there are also other wuwa CCs out there who are definitely also worth checking out!
i tend to separate characters into main on-fielder, offensive support and defensive support
main on-fielder drives the team by either doing damage or enabling off-fielders
offensive support assists the main on-fielder by doing damage or helping them do damage (buffing, debuffing or dealing damage themselves)
defensive support allows rest of the team to stay alive by proactively or reactively hindering opponents ability to hurt them (healing, stalling, I-frames or shielding)
all of these are on a spectrum, with a hybrid of offensive and defensive support being preferable over pure defensive support for better players
what ppl fail to realise is that u can use calcharo as a nuke with his burst in a yinlin team. you can out on ER and liberation resonance dmg to just swap him in, nuke with ult, swap back, no need to even attack with him in his ult state, the initial burst is enough
I see what you’re saying, it makes sense.
does anyone have a build or reccomend a build for yinlin as main dps ? i wanna make her main dps but not sure what weapons + echo’s to use
Hi i dont know if you remember me but we talked about this in your discord a couple of days ago. Really cool that you made a video regarding this topic. Great video and keep up the good work :)
just because her having the ability to do damage off field
and even if damage scaling of future DPS is way higher , she can still work in your team if you like to play with her
Of course! First and foremost, play with whomever you like, meta is always secondary!
Im honesty so happy that her role is so undecided by the comunity cus i really want to pair her up with Lingyang so if she works as a sub DPS than thats a huge win for my future team.
Tbh That is a great way to look at it
I'm going straight for Camellya
DPS, sub-DPS, whatever, i will still main her 🔥
This is the same case for the lion boy. Once he gets started he is insane
Honestly, I'm just going by my PGR experience. Whoever buffs and heals is the Support
I don't have a sub-dps. I have a SYNCHRONIZER; anyone that can enhance my ATTACKER's dmg output. My only requirement for a Synchronizer is they have a kit and accesible weapon that can quickly funnel Concerto energy for fast outro skills + Impermanence Heron and Moonlit Set.
I have Sanhua for Linyang and Encore
Mortefi for Jinyang
Taoqi for Chixia
Danjin for Rover
Synchronizers aren't SUPPORTS or SUB-DPS, they are AMPLIFIERS, which is something different from the likes of Verina and Baizhi who are more of General Enhancers
A main dps is the role the character plays on the team. Its usually the character that requires the most field time to apply its damage. A sub dps - even ones that do more damage than the main - is one that does damage off field or bursts and passes. Its not difficult to understand.
Arguing that a sub dps is actually a main dps because most of the damage comes from the sub dps is purely symantics and doesnt really matter. The point of these terms is to adequately describe the roles each character plays on the team, not necessarily about who is dealing the most damage.
in that team yinlin is a offfield dps(not sub dps) calchero is an onfield dps(not main dps) since if you compare the dmg increase yinlin would have if she was on field to what dmg she and calchero do when he is on field it simply makes alot more sence
good video hope to see more clarification and logical sense
For the sake of honesty, I have long understood this, I play Genshin and for example there is Raiden, who has the ability to cause damage without directly playing on the battlefield, and at the same time she plays perfectly on the battlefield - but for those who understand, I will explain, Raiden through “Elemental Mastery” extremely well and constantly closes any reactions personally, so she can easily bear the title of “Sup-DPS”, but at the same time, she is the “main-DPS”, but if you don’t have strong artifacts for her or the necessary command for her, she will deal damage poorly. So this theory does not work even in Genshin. The problem is that this whole theory was dragged into these games from other games with completely different genres, and they tried to PULL an owl onto a globe, in the end it all works within very strict limits, and if you take a step to the side, this “house of cards” literally breaks down before our eyes, conditionally: you cannot explain to a beginner what, how and most importantly WHY it works. Since a beginner will ask questions that do not fit into this stupid terminology. At the same time, similar terminology works great in other games, because if you try to make Nami into a killer in League of Legends, she will clearly lose to all the other DDs. This is the whole point - terminology should not be stretched like a mask, it should exist inside the game, and alas, in Genshin they could not do it correctly, which is why now all games of this genre are doomed to suffer from this stupid crap.
For example, I don’t want CUMcharo for myself at all, so what should I do now? xd
(Moreover, it is too inconvenient to constantly play two characters at the same time, someone will lose damage one way or another)
thank you for your attention, i am cumming now. xd
i mean in my view point, main dps is reliant on on field capability to dish out damage where as sub dps can also do damage off field, you can potentially use the sub dps as main dps if you want. However, I think sub dps's like yin lin are more flexible. Even though there is a part of yinlin's kit that requires her to be on field, she's is a more generalized version of dps than calcharo because calcharo strictly relies on being on field. That's why the calcharo yinlin synergy is so good though because you can have yinlin do damage in the background while calcharo does damage on field which is better than both of them being on field alone. Therefore, isn't it better, like numbers wise to use yinlin with calcharo instead of as a main dps? I mean its preferential too I suppose. I think sub dps is sort of a mis nomer in the sense that it implies the supports do less damage and are off field but doesn't necessarily have to be the case. I think sub dps's increased flexibility is what classifies them as such and their damage increasing capability all of which yinlin has.
tldr: She's like the yelan from genshin impact of this game in my perspective
Her signature weapon kind of tell me she's meant to play as sub-dps.
Tho she does have a passive that makes take field time but every sub-dps is like that in the game showing its early stage.
Just like PGR and other early gacha the devs don't their game's own meta for the time being.
The keys playstyle are clearly quickswap or hypercarry buff.
Also double dps but this will only work if the off field character does a lot of damage and with a lot off field field time while the on field straight up does more damage on field.
Calcharo and Yinlin issue is that Yinlin deals as much damage as Calcharo on field but then she can also deal damage off field so adding both makes her do more.
She also does more dps than he does.
Main and Sub DPS is obsolete to me.
On Field and Off Field DPS makes more sense, and heck you can even conjoin both of them.
Example is of course Jensheen's OPPA XL, She's your Off Field Main DPS, that's why she's always top tier, she deals on average the DPS you would expect from an On Field Main DPS but Off Field so you can do more DPS with someone on the field.
So if Yinlin also deals the most damage in your team while being Off Field, then she's basically your Off Field Main DPS too. OPPA XL Tier.
I want Yinlin & Kakarot on the field at the same time. Let's create a term for that.
Yinrot
THE LINGYANG CLAN SHALL TAKE OVER ALL OF WUTHERING WAAVES HE IS THE BEST CHARATER
genshin: people thought raiden is a sub dps until they found out she can nuke
wuwa: exactly the same thing w yinlin
It also is such dependend on your team. If you have any teammember which is able to restore enough concerto for yinlin to just need the second rotation, that would make her much more of an off-field dps than if not. Also depends on your weapon as well. There are many variables to take into account
Meanwhile Tartaglia and Xiangling. The main is Tartaglia and Xiangling is sub. But in reality Xiangling contribute more dmg than Tartaglia 😂 genshin community such in nut shell doesn't know the term main and sub, even the official always put description if blabla character is on field or off field dps they still don't know what the difference main-sub dps or on-off field dps
@@Woa_HamstarI agree, tartaglia is a driver to increase xiangling's DMG by vaping. The same goes for alhaitham's hyperbloom team, kuki/electro applier does the most damage while alhaitham applies dendro constantly. Genshin has reactions so u can't compare it to wuthering waves combat system... And genshin players consider character who spend most time on field as dps and off field DMG as sub dps... People should know what dps and sub dps actually means....
@@Woa_Hamstar The problem is that people are using the wrong words. Off field isn't synonymous with sub-DPS. It's worse in Genshin because elemental application essentially created two roles - on field applicator (aka driver) and off field applicator (which usually doesn't get a special name).
And as rivenous says in the video, Wuwa will be too quick-swappy and reactive to pull off perfect rotations, roles aren't as concrete yet.
no one thought she is subdps. her E dmg is shet. unless hyperbloom, which comes later after that.
She is a sub dps by intentions. If she wasn’t her weapon wouldn’t give her a offield damage bonus.
should i use Yinlin + Sanhua + Yuanwu together (or maybe duo Yinlin + Sanhua/Jianxin // Yinlin + Sanhua)? i want her as a main DPS, my supports already busy with another DPS, Havoc MC and Calcharo. What do you guys think?
i think the simplst solution would be to categorize them as "on field" and "off field" dps, since that avoid the muddy part of having to determine who is bringing the highest dps to the team and only care about the distribution of dmg in that character itself.
is most of its dmg dealt while on screen? then on field dps.
is most of the dmg is while off screen? then off field dps.
if a unit happen to have a relatively balanced distribution of dmg between on field and off field, then it can simply be categorized as an hybrid or another similar term
as a Yinlin user, she feels more of a DPS than a sub-dps
Surely it's too early to make any team building assumptions? There is a good chance, if I am making assumptions though, that the future team builds will be healer/amplifier, tank/sub-dps and main DPS. possible that twin DPS set ups will be a thing too. This is how things are done in punishing gray raven, kuros other game.
Just call her specialist like they do in afk journey with characters who do random things lol
Good team recommendations for non Calcharo havers? Im thinking her Sanhua for basic attack buff and Verina/Baizu/Jinxan.
Generally people call a character a sub dps if they can do damage from off field. Xiangling, Yelan, Xingqui, etc. The amount of damage doesn't matter.
Good thinking point. Will have us reconsider the terminology surrounding team positioning and dmg dealt
2:08 I think using main dps and sub dps is dumb anyways. Should be using the same terminology Genshin has been using for ages. On field DPS and off field DPS. She is an off field DPS, making how much dps she adds an irrelevant metric when considering her role.
I got all the standard characters except encore
And chose Danjin as my main dps
My genshin raider sprang up when u said Verina cuz I heard furina
I wonder if encore swap cancels count as "off field" considering she is still clearly there lol
I did not play the beta so i don't like to talk about something i've not tested myself, but i think combat whise this game is more similar to honkai impact 3rd than genshin.
Now, in honkai impact 3rd you can run 2 supp valk and a damage valk but there are also teams were two damage dealers has a lot of synergies and they are meant to be played together, with one menat ti be the maindps.
Normally subdpses has something to increase the damage output of the maindps while he is doing damage, menawhile maindps is way more selfish.
So, if yinlin mechanics increase carcharo's damage but calcharo do not increase her damage, then yes, she is probably meant to be the subdps.
Obviously subdpses can be played also as maindps, that is why people get confused. Xianling's kit is a subdps kit cause she has offfield damage but also a way to increase the main dps damage. But in a lot of the team she ends up being the maindps cause of how much damage she does.
So, maybe here could be the same? Maybe her kit is meant to be a subdps, cause she enables other dps, but she endup do more damage then calcharo cause she is limited and so she is the real maindps of that team. Could it be the case?
About minute 7 in the video, I want to share a personal experience. As a TH-camr who focused on creating content about Genshin Impact upon its release, I found myself in a strange position. While many in my country were building Mona as a sub DPS and emphasizing energy recharge in her stats, I took a different build. Despite facing mockery from the community and even other TH-camrs, I stood by my belief that Mona shouldn't be built solely for energy recharge.
Within just one month of the game's release, my perspective on Mona proved to be ahead of the curve. I became a reference point for discussions about Mona because I looked beyond conventional labels. My point here is to encourage fellow TH-camrs not to censor themselves or conform to the game community expectations blindly. Instead, prioritize your followers and their needs over conforming to the gaming community's norms and terms.
Hey man, thank you for sharing this, much appreciated ♥️ Maybe you are right, will have to consider it for the next video, thank you again 😊
Genshin and this game are definitely not comparable at least in terms of combat, by that i dont mean one is superior to other. Since genshin has an entirely different element system, things dont make sense when u compare the combat to genshin... Cus in genshin terms dps and sub dps express the amount of time u spend on-field with a character. But in wuthering waves each character NEEDS to stay on field to utilise all the aspects of their kit, not doing so will only decrease their personal DMG
she still is a sub dps
This!!! Why is this apparently so difficult? Lol
u listen to 8 minutes of a video and didn't understand a thing. great
@@wtfishtis I just play way too much gacha and have listened to the same argument a million times. Having good DPS doesn’t make you a On-Field DPS
@@wtfishtisLoL now that she’s released, she is a SUB-DPS. Her kit and even her sig weapon screams sub-dps. Weapon passive incentivize off-field Yinlin with 12% additional atk.
I am 100% certain this entire assumption is just made up by a vocal minority of genshin players who cant think or read.
It was the same when HSR released. Some ppl were saying Bailu is a bad character cuz they thought she was the QQ of HSR.
How did they reach this intellectual conclusion? Cuz both smol, both water/ice element, both heal, both standard banner.
And now we have yinlin who visually resembles Fischl gameplay, purple lightning element, rotating animations, summons puppet/raven, therefore sub dps.
So at the end of the day, the label main dps and sub dps is dependent on their environment.
How much worse is Yinlin without Calcharo ? I don't really like him and would like to use something else instead.
I personally don't think the terms Main and Sub Dps apply very well in WuWa. I'll stick with just:
Anyone who deals SIGNIFICANT DMG is a dmg dealer
Anyone FOCUSED on buffing/debuffing is a buffer/debuffer
Anyone who's primary role is to heal or shield or take dmg is a defensive utility
All roads leads the xiangling
Can u make a video using yinlin as main dps with her team yuwan + verina ?
DPS can only apply dmg while one field
SUB-DPS is a DPS with supportive capabilities.
Support main use isn't for DMG but for something else.
Smart people like to over complicate things....pls don't.
❤
So she is like raiden? Dps in the right team?
That's a good way to put it!
Thanks to your comment I decided to turn my Yinlin into my dps
To be honest i like your videos but this has to be one of the worst takes of all time, every example you gave was bad or nonsensical. She is by default a sub dps due to her outro skill and anyone who played cbt2 knows this. Calcharo had more dps even without her buff on endgame bosses, also future 5 star electro dps is likely to be better than calcharo which will again make her sub. Can she be used as a main dps sure every sub can. Danjin also by default is designed to be sub, enter field do quick insane burst then outro skill to buff the next havoc character. Yes she was way too op on cbt2 but again if she gets nerfed future 5 star havoc character will be the main dps and danjin will be a sub buffing them with outro skill.
Tldr - if the devs give a character an outro skill that buffs another dps but dont do much dmg they are likely to be a support..
- if the devs give a character an outro skill that buffs another dps but they can also do quick bursty dps first they are likely to be sub.
First of all, thanks for your comment!
I'll start wirth you last paragraph: Just because the devs intended something, doesn't mean that is how it will turn out down the line. But that is a different matter, and how exactly that will turn out, we will have to see when the game actually releases. To add, many many times before, other games have shown how things change over the course of time. For Genshin, we can take Raiden as an example. Considered subdps before people found out she can also be easily played as main DPS in certain comps. We will see what the future brings.
However, my point in the video was not to argue if she is a main DPS or a sub DPS. I argued she is not a subDPS because the term doesn't make a lot of sense in WuWa. We have DPS characters and non-dps characters (as of right now, that is important), since nearly all character require quite a bit of fieldtime due to the concerto mechanic. Secondly, Yinlin does NOT do burstDPS. Actually 48% of her total damage is considered Skill damage. Of these 48%, only 11% are Judgement damage (which is her off-field damage), the other 37% are damage dealt by her, well, Skill.
Danjin is a totally different matter lol, that unit is just insanely overtuned, ESPECIALLY for a 4*.
Imma main Jianxin and shes my dps!
Is yinlin f2p friendly? Or does she need her sig weapon to be good?
Which character u should prefer
Jiyan or Yinlin
for me is Yinlin, she can be both dps/sub tho
@@s1ege645 bro casually asking is jiyan any good
Yinlin is more future proof
This sounds wrong. Dealing damage has different factors. Dealing more damage does not constitute this character as a "main dps" Is could come down to gear/levels/echoes/skills usage.
What makes a "main dps" in a team is a fact that a certain character is best utilized as an on-field damage dealer, while others in a team support him from off-field with abilities. Calcharo is not a good support for Yinlin, Yinlin is a good support for calcharo. That's just it.
That said, this doesnt mean that you cannot play Yinlin as an on-field damage dealer and choise between Calcharo/YInlin as a pick for on-field main dps could come down to simple numbers game/
Anyone can be a main dps in this game if you got the right buffers and echoes in place lol
The only true sub dps in this game rn is mortify.
Bro do u think use a Danjin how main dps can be strong like jiyan and calcharo or will be always one step below?
Danjin is just skill dependent overall. She has an hp mechanic that constantly lowers her health. So if you don't have a healer like Baizhi or Verina, or a shielder like Jianxin, she tends to be very squishy if you don't have the skills to dodge enemy hits.
So if you're a good player and can dodge well, Danjin is a good DPS. But if you can't dodge as well or just get hit a lot over all, Danjin isn't the best choice. But she can damage scale well with Jiyan or Calcharo. You either just have to be very good at the game or have consistent healing/shielding.
@@alastar2222 yea i like she, i main her for now, so funny to play, just i be worried because in lvl 90 she have 290atack aprox but calcharo and jiyan +400 that is why i ask to dont use resurce for nothing haha
@@Caramelo25 it might be more a case of attack speed. I'm not sure if calcharo or jiyan have faster attacks than Danjin, but it might be the reason why her damage is lower. Usually, faster attack speed means lower attack numbers because of how fast they deal damage.
Either way, she's worth it. If you like her, play her. You don't need a well rounded team with Dps, sub dps, support in WuWa.
I mean not every boss will give youa lot of time to outdo burst chars with dps chars imo
The terms main and sub dps are not really well defined. I think when people call a character like Yinlin a 'subdps' they mean that character can do off-field damage. It's muddied even more by the fact that Yinlin can absolutely be played as an 'on-field' dps, making her a 'maindps.' She's just a very versatile character. Pretty sure you could play this game just switching back and forth between two 'subdps' and have no maindps at all. Honestly unless someone defines their terms upfront I personally find the entire discourse tedious. I prefer discussing things in terms of team synergy.
Just call her a dps.
Main or sub dps is a term that I dont feel is so important in a game where each character spends so much time on the field. Enter the field, do your rotation and change characters.
One supp, two dps go.
There is a thing that I don’t understand, who is the best dps between those 2? I mean it’s clear that depends how you play a char but it is also clear that a character has more dps potential than other, so if those 2 char has the same equip and the sa,e player, which one has the most dps output?
Based on early CBT2 theorycrafting: Yinlin
@@iamrivenousCan you provide evidence?
@@gmrz1100 I can when the game is released. Before that unfortunately not cause I dont wanna get striked lol. Feel free to message me on discord for some screenshots
I want her to not be a sub dps she would ate as a main
Yinlin, Yuanwu and Verina would be better?
Can't say, havent looked too much intp Yuanwu yet, he is a bit gimmickey to TC. Also TC doesnt always translate into praxis.
You do realise that if you are playing yinlin and calcharo properly, yinlin has plenty of field time? You want to be charging calcharo to 3 stacks or 5 stacks if he is in his ult and when he goes in the air you can swap out. I’ve seen videos where she is played at a very high level and she basically has the same screen time and calcharo and they often are attacking at the same time
For me she’s already Main DPS…
In my HEART as Vera Dog..
I mean enjoyer
You like it or not sub dps and main dps in this context will probably stick.
It is easier to tell than off field support dps and on field burst dps in example of yinlin and calcharo.
(Even if it is more descriptive and informative)
We will see. In the end I don't really care what terms we stick with, we could also just call them blue and green as well. I just mostly think that these two terms dont fit the traditional way of how they are perceived. Which could lead to confusion early on. But who knows, I'm also happy to be proven wrong.
Thanks for your comment!
Your example with Yinlin and Calcharo doesn't mean Yinlin isn't a sub dps, it just means Calcharo is mid.
Well, the same thing happends with Raiden on Genshin, she can be a dps on national team, and also can be a sub-dps / support on hyperbloom teams
Out of the two upcoming rate up who should be a higher priority? Jiyan or Yinlin if we are talking meta assuming they don't change anything from the beta
Yinlin was better in beta and looks more future proof.
But with leaks next one after them look more promising.
But given how it is heavily skill based game it is more important that they are good for you not that they are the best.
Honestly, what @offnet6934 said. Jiyan does not have the greatest single target damage and hence falls behind against solo boss encounters, which the higher floors of Tower Of Adversity have. Yinlin works still really well these scenarios and can also be utilized as a supportive dps for other electro dps. Which currently is only Calcharo, but the future will bring us more.
Where is the spreadsheet resource?
I love your videos but this one feels like a miss. You take a long time describing what most games already have keywords for. You're describing burst damage versus sustained DPS. Everywhere I look people classify her as DPS/Sub DPS. That is to say most people suggest she can be either which is exactly what you are saying.
I think the big discrepancy between your hot take and others is your goals. Based on your videos that I've seen you have a huge focus on early game which is great because it's unique, but others are planning around longevity. In the long run the characters built for support and swap in burst DPS have a longer shelf life.
Furthermore, as you point out every character can be a DPS so in this game having the option to be a sub DPS is actually the rarer quality
See Yelan is a subdps. She does more damage than half the main dps in genshin still
Then she is an OFF FIELD DPS. Dps literally mean Damage per second, if she’s the character doing the most damage, she is your main dps, regardless of her being in or off the field.
This confusion came from the fact that usually the character that does the most damage is the one that takes the majority of the field time, but it’s not mandatory it does. Not too surprised Genshin players don’t understand that, as when it comes this types of games they are usually… not the brightest
@@enzo8941 the point of the comment was to say subdps often means off field dps in the case of genshin, and similar case here. The only other use case I can see of the term would be traditional dps during main dps down time but that seems quite wrong to say since no teams move in that direction
@@redstonedeathdrive3519 i understood it, but it seems you didn’t understand me. The point i was trying to make is that the Genshin community takes terms used on other video games an misinterprets them, giving them a new meaning.
@@enzo8941 perhaps, I get that now
Nah, she's a support healer.
i am confused ,
Any chance to link us the wuthering waves calculator? Want to try it!
Not yet sorry! That sheet is provided by KSM/Low Priority and the game is not released yet, which also means we can not guarantee said information to be correct and accurate with the release version. However, all sheets will be available when the game is released
What was the point of this video? I'm still pulling for yinlin, you can call her whatever TF you want.
she seems inconsistent as fuck, i like her design but her kit and playstyle are a joke