Closer to Truth: my gratitude is infinite. I’ve watched hours and hours of your episodes. I’ve read all of Sean’s books. Thank you, truly and deeply. This work is meaningful, wonderful and profound.
The sheer wonder and questions posed somehow grabbed me in ways no other program has. I've watched EVERY video on astronomy, and space and time (get the joke?). This guy's voice, style of interaction, content......I f*'ing love this. And no editing with clips never longer than 5 seconds that EVERY youtube uploader does in order to keep attention in a subliminal way. This is so amazing, thank you, and for the first time ever, I would donate to keep you producing!! Let us know when/where/how please sir, and keep up the great work!!
I agree, because if the universe is finite then there must be an end, but if there's an end there must be something past it which is even more terrifying
CTTT is the show that doesn't just blast out the current accepted explanation promoting the scientist that is presently popular. Bob Kuhn has questions that we all want to ask but don't have access to the many learned people he has. Many of the shows required me to watch two or three times just to make sure I wasn't hearing things. That's because many postulated ideas are right out there on the most insightful leading edges. He's not confined to one mindset or topic having a wide variety of disciplines discussed. Thanks Robert!
yeah you should see the earlier interviews... why the camera people thought it would be an awesome idea to put their cameras on sliders and move them back and forth like a ship in a typhoon will always be a mystery... it's gotten a lot less distracting but you are right, there are still occasional WTF settings and lighting rigs
Of all your episodes Robert, this may be to most profound. Especially for those of us who have a broad understanding of concepts, if not the math or an anything close to an Ed Witten intellect. This program is a conduit to a layperson, such as myself, to wade deeper into contemplation and across the biggest questions and subjects including most importantly, the Hard problem of our consciousness. Thank you Robert. You need to begin your own AMA! I'll gladly add a subscription.
The thought of something finite becoming infinite is a very difficult concept. The thought of the universe being infinite in time and space is equally as mind boggling.
Infinity can’t have a start because before the start it would never have been infinite to begin with. It’s thought that maybe our Big Bang happened inside an already infinite universe.
Great episode!… But missed some big possibilities entirely. There was no discussion of Douglas Hofstadter’s, “ Strange Loop”. (The Morbius Strip, the Klein Bottle,… Godel’s theorem . No contemplation of Penrose’s , infinite regression and/or progression. What is now see from my human perspective and all of the incredible interactions the make my human life so unique and peculiar… Exist ONLY due to my unique perspective as a human entity in a limited time and space. However, the gut microbes in my GI tract are dealing with an entirely different realty. And of course, we can continue down all the way to the Plank Constant(Lol), but we can also imagine that vast structures of our observable are simply parts of a comprehensive structure taking place at an entirely different cosmological perspective. We see ourselves as part of the fundamental building blocks of reality. But we are only fundamental to the building block we perceive. And this includes in an infinite regression and infinite progression that can be perceived by the open eye of humans or the experiences of those entities experiencing those micro or macro perspectives . - [ ] A organism exists within our gastric fauna to execute a specific function. - [ ] I hold that every observable galaxy, planet, black hole, pulsar, supernova are all totally normal function is different aspects of reality not observable for our perspective .
I like option #4. Time and space are infinite - the universe has always existed and is infinitely large. Perhaps the Big Bang is just something that happened in our observable region of the universe.
I believe when you come to the conclusion of an infinity, that shows there is something wrong with the theory, or an equation. It's a kind of mental game that doesn't exist in reality.
Wow!! What a tremendous program. Very instructive, despite the implications of the difficult topics dealt in this lecture. These concepts of space- time and many others, are not easy to assimilate in normal minds. They are so complex to digest honestly. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I agree I think the center of infinities, every point holds some sort of key to solving things. In a weird way it’s like I had moment of clarity that existence is mandated by this line infinity center points must exist as a law of physics.
@@xspotbox4400 because you will only able to see in a finite bubble around you as light takes time to travel. And you will be in the centre of that bubble as you see just as far in every direction. So wherever you are in the universe you will seem to be in the middle
@@Makabert.Abylon So if diameter of the universe change slightly, surface of a sphere will increase buy a huge amount. But diameter is multiplied by Pi number, how can we know surface area if Pi is getting larger with expansion of space inside? Question is, can we still talk about a sphere in that case, when diameter of a circle is not in ratio with it's outer perimeter. One more thing, human stupidity is not infinite, substance of a sphere of knowledge doesn't change if surface area of ignirance became larger.
"What do I mean by mean?" This is such an interesting remark, and it highlights an idea. Is language a limiting factor in our scientific endeavor to understand the Cosmos? If we had a vocabulary of 100 words in the English language, we would be able to communicate, but it would be very limited. It would mean that we had only identified 100 things to put words to, and there are many more than 100 things in the Cosmos, let alone the need for words that aren't nouns, but are critical to language. We certainly wouldn't be able to do science with only a 100 words. If we had a 1,000 words in the English language, then the same would apply. We might not even yet have the word 'infinity', so how could we even conceptualize 'infinity'. There are an estimated 170,000 words in the English language, but who's to say that this is even enough. Do we, for example, have enough words to describe, and understand, all the different types of snow. Other languages have more, so maybe we don't. Robert later says... "Perhaps, the universe was always infinite, whatever that may mean, or perhaps the universe became infinite over time, but could something finite become infinite?". This again, 'might' suggest that our words are letting us down. We have a specific definition for the words 'finite' and 'infinite', but maybe the Cosmos doesn't abide by the lexical rules of our language, and for words that were coined long before we had truly come to understand the enormity of what we might one day need to apply them to, scientific exactness. Interestingly, a synonym for 'infinite', is 'cosmos', one definition being 'inconceivably vast'. Other related synonyms are 'impenetrable' and 'unfathomable'. These all highlight, not necessarily a limit in understanding, but rather that we simply don't have the correct words to conceptualize the nature of the universe. The words 'finite' and 'infinite' are simply not precise enough, not good enough, not scientific enough, to describe what it is that we are trying to understand. Just thoughts...
🤔…….you asked, “Is language a limiting factor in our scientific endeavor to understand the cosmos?” Well…..that depends on what your definition of “is” is.
Just found and subbed. Very excellent Channel! I love the concept of Infinity. If I think about it hard enough, my brain feels like it's going to explode and I like that feeling.
To me the infinity makes the here and now and you more special then ever. If the universe is infinite, and there is an infinite number of me and you, and there is nothing you can do to change the total amount of goodness, then doesn't it make us, here and now the more special and important? This though just puts me right in my own shoes and helps me realize how important you are ❤️
@@bozo5632 Not necessarily; the Mandelbrot set has an edge, and there is a definite inside to it. It is just an infinitely convoluted (but proven to be continuous) edge.
During the course of my day's routine I make time to escape into the program...Closer to Truth. The subject matter is fascinating which causes critical thinking and a paradigm shift in my thought pattern. Kudos
To see the world in a grain of sand And heaven in a wild flower Hold infinity in the palm of your hand And eternity in an hour. If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is - infinite. William Blake.
You know the day destroys the night; night divides the day; tried to run; tried to hide; break on through to the other side; break on through to the other side.
I really liked this episode! I’ve often thought about the connection between infinity and morality. If everything that CAN happen DOES happen, then there’s nothing you can do to prevent any evil. Let’s say you see someone about to kill someone else. Do you stop them? If you do, then there’s an alternative universe where you don’t. If you don’t, then there’s an alternative universe where you do. Your choice will never change any outcome; it will only change which universe it happens in.
While it may be true that your actions/choices can have zero effect upon infinity... Your actions/choices can have infinite effect upon you personally, and upon those around you... For me... that’s enough of a reason to retain and maintain my morality. There is no benefit to “worsening” anyone’s experience... You can argue that there is also no benefit to “improving” anyone’s experience... However... you must remember that you are a participant within any experience over which you can possibly have any influence... Universal Law Number One: “Don’t be a dick.”
Even if there’s an exact replica of you in the far off reaches of infinity, it isn’t “you” (the sentient entity that is experiencing the world from your personal perspective). What that other guy who looks just like you does shouldn’t affect how you behave in our corner of the cosmos.
Each one was worse than the last, culminating in an absurd moral argument. The star of the show is Kuhn.. 1/ for asking intelligent questions to which he receives no intelligent answers; and 2/ for refraining from laughter. They tie themselves in knots with the terms 'infinity' and 'probability'. Carroll came closest to an honest answer... "We don't really know what we are doing". To which I would add... nor do they know what they are talking about.
Infinity, as I once heard someone say, is more like a placeholder for our ignorance of the vast unknown. Infinity doesn't make any sense, neither does the alternative. A creator doesn't make sense. No creator doesn't make sense either. Are we really making any sense at all or are we just making noises with agreed upon meanings? Are we all just chirping like birds and barking like dogs? The universe doesn't owe us an explanation. It doesn't by necessity have to make sense to our monkey brains.
Here is my take on it as I contemplated the universe as a teenager. By its very nature space is infinite, because it is nothing. Nothing goes on forever. It can never end. If it does end at a wall, well that wall is encroaching in space. There will be nothing on the other side. Mater, by its very nature, is finite. It cannot exist without empty space to be in. Mater needs empty space, which is nothing so to speak, where it exists. There cannot be mater without space, or nothing. Mater needs space but nothing does not need mater. Space cannot be destroyed because it is nothing. It is also infinite. Nothing cannot be destroyed because there is nothing there to be destroyed. You can also call it ether or time as cosmologists have done. They have also speculated that ultimate power dwells in it. It is eternal and infinite. Cannot be destroyed. Has not been created. Can withdraw itself to create mater. Some have called nothing God. What do you think?
Liked the thought. But, space confuses/disturbs me. How is it, that space exists - even if it is nothing? Nothingness seems easier to deal with - in the sense that there should be nothing at all; than the fact that I can move, walk, through space, which is 'made of nothing'. Well, it is like considering our own existence, it is almost painful to think about it. Wasting time with a game, or concentrating on everyday tasks as doing the dishes, or pretending to find meaning in things as 'pursuing good', alleviates the pressure. Maybe it is still out of reach and we need another 10 thousand years of brain improvement, maybe it is under the nose, or those who really know cannot point to it in any viable way. Endless questions, again nice reading your text, time for Netflix to cool down a bit.
You're on the right track. I have a similar story and reached a similar conclusion as you. It makes way more sense than some of the stories they spin about infinity and infinite number of versions of me. Sometimes philosophy goes down a rabbit hole trying to explain things and gets lost.
Another simpler way to deal with infinity, is to say that you do have a beginning, which would be 1 reference point but have never reached the other reference point, which would be the end. Infinity refers to an incomplete process, but by no means, means there isn't an end. Infinity simply cannot exist. If anything has a beginning, it must have an end, or the beginning itself doesn't exist. One cannot exist without the other. Likewise if something has an end, it has to have a beginning, or else the end by itself makes no sense at all, and that's simply because both of them define each other and makes it possible that they exist. Something viewed as infinite really means that the beginning is the end, and the end is the beginning, which is a situation that cannot exist, or if it did nothing would exist. The same thing applies to eternity. Also numbers. When they say there cannot exist a largest number simply from fact that if you add 1 to it, it no longer is the largest number, means that there is no infinitely large number and one cannot exist is because at the very minimum, the only largest number that exists is the number 1. Every other number is a multiple of 1,and as long as 1 exists, no other number can be larger than it is, since it is itself repeated over and over
Time doesn't physically exist. We are not sure if it's passing. We have just assumed it to be moving forward, maybe it's moving backwards and the big bang was actually a big crunch. I think our existence and the universe's reason is the field I would love to work upon. *ITS AMAZING* 😵😵
Personally, I believe that infinity does not exist in nature. That's because infinity is a syntactical concept, which we humans give semantics to and project onto the universe we see. In other words I believe infinity is a pitfall of our language-based form of intelligence: infinity does not truly exist, it is actually the recursive application of a generalized pattern. Our minds are well trained at detecting patterns by means of two operations we constantly perform: generalization and unification. Without delving into the details, the two are strongly connected and accurately trained in our brains due to the heavy use of language by our species. We therefore learn to generalize even the process of generalization, which leads to recursion: recursion is the indefinite re-application of a generalized pattern. When we observe something, we are capable of imagining an arbitrary amount of repetitions without actually counting or imagining all of them. We just suspend the iteration of the pattern and treat it as an entity on its own, at an intuitive level. Think at natural numbers: they are infinite. Why? Not because anyone ever proved that by counting them all or by writing them all down somewhere, but because we know the recursive mechanism for producing the successor of any number, starting from zero. Numbers are syntactical entities, like everything our mind manipulates and thinks. The symbol of infinite in mathematics (the rotated 8) is just a fancy lexeme for expressing any entity we could syntactically produce by applying the successor an indefinite amount of times, starting from zero. We basically gave a name to a process, not a thing. The notion of nothing is purely linguistic too: it is just defined as the inverted semantics of something. The inversion of semantics is a language mechanism, it does not have a counterpart in the world. Our mistake, in my opinion, is that we project these language constructs into reality, thinking that the universe must somehow correspond to them, though that's not the case. In my opinion the universe is finite, matter is finite, spacetime is finite, bacause it had a start and it is made of something, pixels of spacetime that we call planck units, and there cannot be an infinite amount of them. Even if there are extra dimensions that would be finite anyway. Because infinity, in my opinion, is just a mechanism of our brain for handling the concept of an indefinitely repeatable pattern, that's not a real thing.
Between now and one second from now, there is an infinite set of instants. If you consider a tiny portion of that second, you can always divide it in half, and that will never end. It's infinite but... it's already gone. We can't perceive infinity adequately, it doesn't make sense in our minds, but it's there nonetheless. And if infinity exists, the universe doesn't need a beginning. Its existence can go back to infinity.
Amazing vid. Left me with some thoughts/questions. Aguirre's infinity was the divisible infinity, something Caroll mentioned too, where you can divide and divide forever. So as Aguirre says if we look at it that way then this 'bubble' universe is already infinite. My question then: In my hand exists infinity. Is it safe for me to assume there are no copies of me in the infinite space inside my hand? I would say yes, as a copy of me would need to be my size at least, and therefore any copy (even if it did exist) would be disqualified from being my copy. We can then say there are different kinds of infinity, many of which do not contain all possibilities. Atoms would also need to rearrange themselves to be my copy, on the smallest of scales we would have no atoms to form copies. So we can indeed conceive of an infinity (space and even time) where just because we have an infinity does not mean every possibility could/SHOULD occur, there are indeed limitations. If this is the case then, how do we reconcile this with a universe infinite in an outward sense? I think the concept of a 'boundary' in time/space is a human notion. And as much as I hate the idea, I think that the Universe is indeed infinte, but as with the infinity of my hand - somehow, infinite spacetime does not necessarily have everything - everything in this case being exact copies of entitities/instances. I think that's more easily digestable than infinite copies of me, that sounds ridiculous, that's even before we deal with the 'measure problem'.
I enjoyed the conversation between Kuhn and Rees - especially when the latter said "whatever our preferences are we should accept that we just don't know" .... "remember that our preferences count for nothing and we must accept the universe as it is" - I became concerned when Kuhn was interviewing Aguirre and the latter said "you will agree" (why ? - this cannot be matter of fact) and "but its true" (when there is no evidence to support what he speaks about)
Thanks Robert it’s mind boggling . It seems the big questions are unanswerable at least until we humans have complete unification and have the entire population asking the same question all at the same time . Solutions will appear and then work on the next big question
Of all the abstract ideas, the concept of infinity is, by far, the least well understood. Beginning in grade school, we are all taught that infinity is “not a number”, however, the general tendency is to simply think of it as a really, really big number. This common misconception leads us to erroneously ask such questions as “Is the universe infinite?” The best way to dispel this misconception is to think of infinity as something that is incomplete or unfinished and is eternally so. However, to actually be something is to be necessarily complete. For example, an airplane is only truly an airplane when each of its essential components are present and assembled in the appropriate manner. Prior to this, whatever things exist (components, assemblies, etc.) are merely in the process of becoming an airplane. Likewise, the sum total of all that there is ( the Universe) must necessarily be complete (finite), at least in so far as it exists at any given time. In other words, there are no actual infinities, only potential ones. A better wording of the question might have been “Is the Universe unlimited or unbounded?”
The problem is that unlimited or unbounded are not the same as infinite (certainly not mathematically). The surface of a sphere or a torus is unlimited, but it's finite.
The idea that if the universe is infinite there must be an infinite number of repetitions of what we know (including ourselves) isn't supported by logic. As Rees says, we must accept the universe as we find it, regardless of preference. So, to assume that infinity simply leads to repetition is to say that there is not an infinity of possibilities. If there is no infinity of possibilities (as in there are repetitions) then there is no infinity! Infinity actually means that nothing repeats or is reiterated. If there are repetitions then it is some kind of cyclical universe, and the only reason for assuming repetition of what we know is that we are egotistical creatures who can only imagine the universe as we find it, rather than accept the infinity of possibilities offered by the idea of an infinite universe, including an infinity of conditions of the universe which are not the same as those we know.
Thanks for so many great interviews. You ponder the questions many of us have. It's disturbing to think slightly different versions of ourselves might commit atrocities. To be known that way isn't good. Oh, to be "God" for a day. To know. But maybe all-knowing grows old. No more surprises? No more newness. Could this be the Bane of existence? When there's nothing new under the sun... existence fades away.
Luca Duca, this is where the most likely answer involves religion. “Time”, is just a piece of infinity. Our piece of infinity began with the Big Bang. “Time” will end with us.
The whole cosmos is bounded by space, time and causation. So, it is infinite in time but finite in space-time like waves of an ocean. As long as we have physical body and mind we can never perceive which is beyond space, time and causation. The absolute truth is beyond any type of dimension or dimensions but supporter of everything. It is really miracle.
It’s interesting to me that unbiased science is the obvious sub-message here and that our own preferences should be (no matter how rational we think they are or otherwise) put aside for the truth that science is supposed to give us. If only mainstream scientists would do this more often. I’ve seen a great deal of evidence for the propagation of many things outside, or just outside the mainstream scientific view that are immediately rejected with great prejudice. Not because of conflicting theories, or evidence for the counter, but just because “it just can’t be true”. Is a scientist not supposed to be an explorer? Daring to question and explore all possibilities. I appreciate this channel because it does just that, and though some bias is implied, it’s never taken as more important than the truth it journeys to uncover!
This idea that in an infinite cosmos everything that is possible happens is a common misconception. First of all, you have to add the qualifier „eventually“, i.e., at some point. But second of all, you have to go to the more technical statement „the chance of something that is possible to eventually happen is 1.“ Here’s the important difference: if you throw a dart on a idealized dart board, hitting any particular point has probability 0. But of course, you may hit some point! Even though the chance of that not happening is 1 at any given time. Just because the probability of something is 0 or 1 doesn’t mean it cannot or will eventually happen. Also note that theorems that derive probability 0 or 1 rely on important assumptions on independence of events. Say you have a stochastic process that iterates through even numbers if a coin toss at the beginning is heads, and through off numbers otherwise. Then, reaching any particular number is a priori possible. However, after the coin is tossed, a lot of numbers become forever unreachable. That is because the events depend on each other in a particular way.
thx for this episode ... gave me more insight to this infinity issue but one infinity was omitted the 3 infinities of our universe are 1) space 2) time 3) and energy and all these combined is the source of "infinite possibility" i consider these the fundamental source of all that is and coincidently... God too is trinity.
The idea of of forever. With out end used to scare me. But I realized its the truth. And if there is s forever. Then the possibility of god became real to me. How can somethingl exist with out end. It just keeps on,going. At that point I realized that our world our existence. Is more than the here and now. We also might live forever death may not be the end. Just a layer. A small,piece of the truth. And after death we see that that was just page of our existence. A transition. After all one of the laws of thermodynamics, says that nothing is disyroyed it only changes. So we may not die in,the sense of distroyed. Some part of us may live on. This is echoed in,religion. As well,as science. And is very plausable. As I see it..
Not only will we never know the nature of existence or infinity but we CAN'T know it. But that doesnt mean we shouldn't be looking for it. I mean most people will stop looking and just live their lives. But scientists and philosophers can't help but look. That's what makes them scientists and philosophers.
11:07 A very important lesson to learn. The universe is not intuitive. Intuition has evolved and was trained to understand our everyday environment (at most). But there is no reason to believe it is reliable beyond that.
Regarding the segment at the end about morals; you can have different sizes of infinities. So if we start with 50/50 on good/bad choices morally, but progress to 60/40, that would be a bigger infinity for good. The goal would be to keep progressing and creating a bigger difference in the ratios.
What would it mean to me? in the time I have left it means absolutely nothing, the universe ends for us when we die,..unless reincarnation is true, otherwise it really doesn't matter if it's infinite or not.. .
"... but I cannot fathom it." Is that not just within the definition of "infinite"? If something has no boundaries, how to grip it? There is no way to come closer to infinity, we're all in it, in all directions, then. I think the idea to create or increase the total amount of happiness in the universe is hubris. To not harm and to do what one can in what reality we can grasp, on the other hand, is a moral obligation, because we can foresee consequences of our actions, here. I sincerely thank you for posing these thought-provoking and important questions. With a finite number of symbols, we can create infinity. ;)
I think what Robert is trying to convey is that he (and the rest of us) can conceptually conceive of infinity, but cannot really comprehend it or its implications. Which, being finite beings, is probably the best we can hope for. On the moral argument - I don't see it as hubristic; it's simply impossible if the universe is in any way infinite. We don't know whether the universe is infinite, so "your" moral imperative translates into the same if the universe is finite, and is the best solution even if it is infinite. So I prefer it as a formulation of a moral imperative; it does ruin the paradox a bit, though. ;-)
Infinite cosmos is interconnected of infinite love and affection between everything, humans, nature, universe, it's ever lasting process. This process occurs only in the balanced state of mind in humans, frequency is equal for everything.
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man... this channel is like having a detox from all the garbage media we're bombarded with.
Lol
You have a choice.. you choose to bombard yourself with garbage...you have no one else to blame but yourself.
@@b3at2 was just about to say the same thing
Grayson
No isn't
You're not scientist but learning better be good to know . haha
@@b3at2y6
I always love Closer to Truth. One of the best and most accessible science and philosophy presentations around!
Or THE best
The best
Ditto
Closer to Truth: my gratitude is infinite. I’ve watched hours and hours of your episodes. I’ve read all of Sean’s books. Thank you, truly and deeply. This work is meaningful, wonderful and profound.
Sean Carroll? I'm sorry.
@@bradwalker7025 yup. I'm sure that's who he means.
The sheer wonder and questions posed somehow grabbed me in ways no other program has. I've watched EVERY video on astronomy, and space and time (get the joke?). This guy's voice, style of interaction, content......I f*'ing love this. And no editing with clips never longer than 5 seconds that EVERY youtube uploader does in order to keep attention in a subliminal way. This is so amazing, thank you, and for the first time ever, I would donate to keep you producing!! Let us know when/where/how please sir, and keep up the great work!!
I am not sure if it is the interesting information, or just the sound of his voice. But I find myself very relaxed while listening.
The idea of a never ending universe is more palatable to my mind than a finite one.
I agree, because if the universe is finite then there must be an end, but if there's an end there must be something past it which is even more terrifying
Could be finite and unbounded
CTTT is the show that doesn't just blast out the current accepted explanation promoting the scientist that is presently popular. Bob Kuhn has questions that we all want to ask but don't have access to the many learned people he has. Many of the shows required me to watch two or three times just to make sure I wasn't hearing things. That's because many postulated ideas are right out there on the most insightful leading edges. He's not confined to one mindset or topic having a wide variety of disciplines discussed. Thanks Robert!
"I speak with Sean Carroll." Its already a classic in this universe😀
4:55
Great answer
This is what science is all about. Knowing or not knowing. Never guessing or wanting.
A lot of guessing and estimating in science, to try to make some sort of sense of the things that, a human mind, can't grasp!
The camera and lighting on this series has gotten so much better!
It's sort of spooky like an old show called 'strange but true'
yeah you should see the earlier interviews... why the camera people thought it would be an awesome idea to put their cameras on sliders and move them back and forth like a ship in a typhoon will always be a mystery... it's gotten a lot less distracting but you are right, there are still occasional WTF settings and lighting rigs
Of all your episodes Robert, this may be to most profound. Especially for those of us who have a broad understanding of concepts, if not the math or an anything close to an Ed Witten intellect. This program is a conduit to a layperson, such as myself, to wade deeper into contemplation and across the biggest questions and subjects including most importantly, the Hard problem of our consciousness. Thank you Robert. You need to begin your own AMA! I'll gladly add a subscription.
The music at 6:00 is absolutely beautiful ! Well done, brilliant productions. Thank You all
The thought of something finite becoming infinite is a very difficult concept. The thought of the universe being infinite in time and space is equally as mind boggling.
Infinity can’t have a start because before the start it would never have been infinite to begin with. It’s thought that maybe our Big Bang happened inside an already infinite universe.
Great episode!… But missed some big possibilities entirely.
There was no discussion of Douglas Hofstadter’s, “ Strange Loop”. (The Morbius Strip, the Klein Bottle,… Godel’s theorem .
No contemplation of Penrose’s , infinite regression and/or progression.
What is now see from my human perspective and all of the incredible interactions the make my human life so unique and peculiar… Exist ONLY due to my unique perspective as a human entity in a limited time and space.
However, the gut microbes in my GI tract are dealing with an entirely different realty. And of course, we can continue down all the way to the Plank Constant(Lol), but we can also imagine that vast structures of our observable are simply parts of a comprehensive structure taking place at an entirely different cosmological perspective. We see ourselves as part of the fundamental building blocks of reality. But we are only fundamental to the building block we perceive. And this includes in an infinite regression and infinite progression that can be perceived by the open eye of humans or the experiences of those entities experiencing those micro or macro perspectives .
- [ ] A organism exists within our gastric fauna to execute a specific function.
- [ ] I hold that every observable galaxy, planet, black hole, pulsar, supernova are all totally normal function is different aspects of reality not observable for our perspective .
If I'm never going to reach the end of it, and I'm never going to live long enough to see it end, then to me it _is_ infinite and will remain forever.
Only Eternity can fully embrace Infinity.
I like option #4. Time and space are infinite - the universe has always existed and is infinitely large. Perhaps the Big Bang is just something that happened in our observable region of the universe.
big bang was a local event. the universe is infinite and it has always been infinite.
In our universe Robert is still trying to get "closer to truth," but in the infinite cosmos many "Roberts" have found the truth.
No, infinite Roberts. (lol)
In fact all of those infinite Roberts, if they believe to have found the truth, are just deluded.
There would be infinite Roberts and infinite Robots so many Roberts would be unemployed.
@@TheWorldTeacher nope
But which one is the Robertest Robert?
I agree with Sean Carroll's position. That we just don't know yet and we prefer that space and time are infinite. Love CTT.
Time and space are illusions
@@mysticwine I don't think they are illusions. However, I do think that our minds relate to these by using models(mental constructs).
For a reputational atheist, I found myself enjoying and agreeing with this points which surprised me.
I believe when you come to the conclusion of an infinity, that shows there is something wrong with the theory, or an equation. It's a kind of mental game that doesn't exist in reality.
*It’s obvious that it’s infinite. That’s not a matter of preference. The mere fact that something can’t come from nothing makes it infinite.*
Wow!! What a tremendous program. Very instructive, despite the implications of the difficult topics dealt in this lecture. These concepts of space- time and many others, are not easy to assimilate in normal minds. They are so complex to digest honestly. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Finite or infinite, both are equally impossible to imagine.
I can show you both in one if you want?
I will open your mind like you did with me with time!
something his coming and I need to understand!
An infinite cosmos means you are at its center.
As well as everything else.
Why is that, there's no center inside of infinity, unless you can make it finite, relevant to something somehow.
I agree I think the center of infinities, every point holds some sort of key to solving things. In a weird way it’s like I had moment of clarity that existence is mandated by this line infinity center points must exist as a law of physics.
There is no such thing as actual infinity. There is eternity-the “nothing.”
@@xspotbox4400 because you will only able to see in a finite bubble around you as light takes time to travel. And you will be in the centre of that bubble as you see just as far in every direction. So wherever you are in the universe you will seem to be in the middle
@@Makabert.Abylon So if diameter of the universe change slightly, surface of a sphere will increase buy a huge amount. But diameter is multiplied by Pi number, how can we know surface area if Pi is getting larger with expansion of space inside?
Question is, can we still talk about a sphere in that case, when diameter of a circle is not in ratio with it's outer perimeter.
One more thing, human stupidity is not infinite, substance of a sphere of knowledge doesn't change if surface area of ignirance became larger.
The most interesting playground we will never fully explore. I’m bummed
The implications of infinity are simply unfathomable
"What do I mean by mean?" This is such an interesting remark, and it highlights an idea. Is language a limiting factor in our scientific endeavor to understand the Cosmos? If we had a vocabulary of 100 words in the English language, we would be able to communicate, but it would be very limited. It would mean that we had only identified 100 things to put words to, and there are many more than 100 things in the Cosmos, let alone the need for words that aren't nouns, but are critical to language. We certainly wouldn't be able to do science with only a 100 words. If we had a 1,000 words in the English language, then the same would apply. We might not even yet have the word 'infinity', so how could we even conceptualize 'infinity'. There are an estimated 170,000 words in the English language, but who's to say that this is even enough. Do we, for example, have enough words to describe, and understand, all the different types of snow. Other languages have more, so maybe we don't. Robert later says... "Perhaps, the universe was always infinite, whatever that may mean, or perhaps the universe became infinite over time, but could something finite become infinite?". This again, 'might' suggest that our words are letting us down. We have a specific definition for the words 'finite' and 'infinite', but maybe the Cosmos doesn't abide by the lexical rules of our language, and for words that were coined long before we had truly come to understand the enormity of what we might one day need to apply them to, scientific exactness. Interestingly, a synonym for 'infinite', is 'cosmos', one definition being 'inconceivably vast'. Other related synonyms are 'impenetrable' and 'unfathomable'. These all highlight, not necessarily a limit in understanding, but rather that we simply don't have the correct words to conceptualize the nature of the universe. The words 'finite' and 'infinite' are simply not precise enough, not good enough, not scientific enough, to describe what it is that we are trying to understand. Just thoughts...
The wonderful thing is that we can combine a select few "words" (sounds) to express just about anything. This is called double articulation.
🤔…….you asked, “Is language a limiting factor in our scientific endeavor to understand the cosmos?”
Well…..that depends on what your definition of “is” is.
Beautifully put
@@juanmiranda8390 Thank you...
Perhaps Socrates, was correct, when he humbly admitted; ' I only know, that I don't know'.
Just found and subbed. Very excellent Channel! I love the concept of Infinity. If I think about it hard enough, my brain feels like it's going to explode and I like that feeling.
Yeah, for me best sub ever. Sometimes Internet can be good lol
To my mind both an infinite cosmos and a finite cosmos are utterly incomprehensible. I think I'll have a beer.
To me the infinity makes the here and now and you more special then ever. If the universe is infinite, and there is an infinite number of me and you, and there is nothing you can do to change the total amount of goodness, then doesn't it make us, here and now the more special and important? This though just puts me right in my own shoes and helps me realize how important you are ❤️
I religiously watch / listen to your show, thank you for producing it… regardless of how depressing I find the intro music.
So, there's a copy of Robert L Kuhn that doesn't wear turtlenecks?, unbelievable.
haha word
the man has swaeg
There are infinite copies of Robert L Kuhn that don't wear turtlenecks
Infinity is turtlenecks all the way...
A fractal when viewed externally has a defined edge but from the inside it is infinite. We're on the inside.
There are no natural outside edges of fractals either. There's no inside or outside.
E8
@@bozo5632 Not necessarily; the Mandelbrot set has an edge, and there is a definite inside to it. It is just an infinitely convoluted (but proven to be continuous) edge.
i love this chanel, especially with a lack of mobility and on my sleepless nights
Same!
During the course of my day's routine I make time to escape into the program...Closer to Truth. The subject matter is fascinating which causes critical thinking and a paradigm shift in my thought pattern. Kudos
To see the world in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is - infinite.
William Blake.
You know the day destroys the night; night divides the day; tried to run; tried to hide; break on through to the other side; break on through to the other side.
like the universe, my curiosity continues to grow with each episode. thank you
I really liked this episode! I’ve often thought about the connection between infinity and morality. If everything that CAN happen DOES happen, then there’s nothing you can do to prevent any evil. Let’s say you see someone about to kill someone else. Do you stop them? If you do, then there’s an alternative universe where you don’t. If you don’t, then there’s an alternative universe where you do. Your choice will never change any outcome; it will only change which universe it happens in.
Yes, but we live in the best universe and we want to keep it that way.
Make the right choice and don't let me down. We're #1!
While it may be true that your actions/choices can have zero effect upon infinity...
Your actions/choices can have infinite effect upon you personally, and upon those around you...
For me... that’s enough of a reason to retain and maintain my morality.
There is no benefit to “worsening” anyone’s experience...
You can argue that there is also no benefit to “improving” anyone’s experience...
However... you must remember that you are a participant within any experience over which you can possibly have any influence...
Universal Law Number One:
“Don’t be a dick.”
There goes free will again....
That is just a proof that there is no evil
Even if there’s an exact replica of you in the far off reaches of infinity, it isn’t “you” (the sentient entity that is experiencing the world from your personal perspective). What that other guy who looks just like you does shouldn’t affect how you behave in our corner of the cosmos.
Each one was worse than the last, culminating in an absurd moral argument. The star of the show is Kuhn.. 1/ for asking intelligent questions to which he receives no intelligent answers; and 2/ for refraining from laughter. They tie themselves in knots with the terms 'infinity' and 'probability'. Carroll came closest to an honest answer... "We don't really know what we are doing". To which I would add... nor do they know what they are talking about.
Infinity within infinities makes me happy. I love it ! Life is merely a dream within a dream. Reminds me of Poe.
Did you read his book EUREKA , Especially the last chapter?
Or Chuang-tzu.
A discussion of infinity - and yet it's over after less than 30 mins! Mindboggling :)
Infinity, as I once heard someone say, is more like a placeholder for our ignorance of the vast unknown. Infinity doesn't make any sense, neither does the alternative. A creator doesn't make sense. No creator doesn't make sense either. Are we really making any sense at all or are we just making noises with agreed upon meanings? Are we all just chirping like birds and barking like dogs?
The universe doesn't owe us an explanation. It doesn't by necessity have to make sense to our monkey brains.
Here is my take on it as I contemplated the universe as a teenager. By its very nature space is infinite, because it is nothing. Nothing goes on forever. It can never end. If it does end at a wall, well that wall is encroaching in space. There will be nothing on the other side. Mater, by its very nature, is finite. It cannot exist without empty space to be in. Mater needs empty space, which is nothing so to speak, where it exists. There cannot be mater without space, or nothing. Mater needs space but nothing does not need mater. Space cannot be destroyed because it is nothing. It is also infinite. Nothing cannot be destroyed because there is nothing there to be destroyed. You can also call it ether or time as cosmologists have done. They have also speculated that ultimate power dwells in it. It is eternal and infinite. Cannot be destroyed. Has not been created. Can withdraw itself to create mater. Some have called nothing God. What do you think?
Liked the thought. But, space confuses/disturbs me. How is it, that space exists - even if it is nothing? Nothingness seems easier to deal with - in the sense that there should be nothing at all; than the fact that I can move, walk, through space, which is 'made of nothing'. Well, it is like considering our own existence, it is almost painful to think about it. Wasting time with a game, or concentrating on everyday tasks as doing the dishes, or pretending to find meaning in things as 'pursuing good', alleviates the pressure. Maybe it is still out of reach and we need another 10 thousand years of brain improvement, maybe it is under the nose, or those who really know cannot point to it in any viable way. Endless questions, again nice reading your text, time for Netflix to cool down a bit.
You're on the right track. I have a similar story and reached a similar conclusion as you. It makes way more sense than some of the stories they spin about infinity and infinite number of versions of me. Sometimes philosophy goes down a rabbit hole trying to explain things and gets lost.
The perception of it being infinite in the universe but finite outside the universe blew me away but actually makes perfect sense
if it is infinite how are you outside of it and looking at it? Seems that would prove it is not infinite.
@@90volts expanding
If a finite cosmos then you can always ask 'what's beyond that? And then, what's beyond that?' Positing an infinite cosmos takes care of that problem.
Another simpler way to deal with infinity, is to say that you do have a beginning, which would be 1 reference point but have never reached the other reference point, which would be the end. Infinity refers to an incomplete process, but by no means, means there isn't an end. Infinity simply cannot exist. If anything has a beginning, it must have an end, or the beginning itself doesn't exist. One cannot exist without the other. Likewise if something has an end, it has to have a beginning, or else the end by itself makes no sense at all, and that's simply because both of them define each other and makes it possible that they exist. Something viewed as infinite really means that the beginning is the end, and the end is the beginning, which is a situation that cannot exist, or if it did nothing would exist. The same thing applies to eternity. Also numbers. When they say there cannot exist a largest number simply from fact that if you add 1 to it, it no longer is the largest number, means that there is no infinitely large number and one cannot exist is because at the very minimum, the only largest number that exists is the number 1. Every other number is a multiple of 1,and as long as 1 exists, no other number can be larger than it is, since it is itself repeated over and over
Infinite gratitude where it is due. Thank you for quite possibly the most intriguing infodoc I've ever seen.
Time doesn't physically exist.
We are not sure if it's passing.
We have just assumed it to be moving forward, maybe it's moving backwards and the big bang was actually a big crunch.
I think our existence and the universe's reason is the field I would love to work upon.
*ITS AMAZING* 😵😵
Personally, I believe that infinity does not exist in nature. That's because infinity is a syntactical concept, which we humans give semantics to and project onto the universe we see. In other words I believe infinity is a pitfall of our language-based form of intelligence: infinity does not truly exist, it is actually the recursive application of a generalized pattern. Our minds are well trained at detecting patterns by means of two operations we constantly perform: generalization and unification. Without delving into the details, the two are strongly connected and accurately trained in our brains due to the heavy use of language by our species. We therefore learn to generalize even the process of generalization, which leads to recursion: recursion is the indefinite re-application of a generalized pattern. When we observe something, we are capable of imagining an arbitrary amount of repetitions without actually counting or imagining all of them. We just suspend the iteration of the pattern and treat it as an entity on its own, at an intuitive level. Think at natural numbers: they are infinite. Why? Not because anyone ever proved that by counting them all or by writing them all down somewhere, but because we know the recursive mechanism for producing the successor of any number, starting from zero. Numbers are syntactical entities, like everything our mind manipulates and thinks. The symbol of infinite in mathematics (the rotated 8) is just a fancy lexeme for expressing any entity we could syntactically produce by applying the successor an indefinite amount of times, starting from zero.
We basically gave a name to a process, not a thing.
The notion of nothing is purely linguistic too: it is just defined as the inverted semantics of something. The inversion of semantics is a language mechanism, it does not have a counterpart in the world.
Our mistake, in my opinion, is that we project these language constructs into reality, thinking that the universe must somehow correspond to them, though that's not the case.
In my opinion the universe is finite, matter is finite, spacetime is finite, bacause it had a start and it is made of something, pixels of spacetime that we call planck units, and there cannot be an infinite amount of them. Even if there are extra dimensions that would be finite anyway.
Because infinity, in my opinion, is just a mechanism of our brain for handling the concept of an indefinitely repeatable pattern, that's not a real thing.
Infinity is very large, especially towards the end
I dunno.....I'm making no progress and remain stuck in the middle of my infinity.
and just think ∞ + 1 is also possible.
most underrated comment
Between now and one second from now, there is an infinite set of instants. If you consider a tiny portion of that second, you can always divide it in half, and that will never end. It's infinite but... it's already gone. We can't perceive infinity adequately, it doesn't make sense in our minds, but it's there nonetheless. And if infinity exists, the universe doesn't need a beginning. Its existence can go back to infinity.
last guy was like a weird science willy wonka XD
Amazing vid. Left me with some thoughts/questions. Aguirre's infinity was the divisible infinity, something Caroll mentioned too, where you can divide and divide forever. So as Aguirre says if we look at it that way then this 'bubble' universe is already infinite. My question then: In my hand exists infinity. Is it safe for me to assume there are no copies of me in the infinite space inside my hand? I would say yes, as a copy of me would need to be my size at least, and therefore any copy (even if it did exist) would be disqualified from being my copy. We can then say there are different kinds of infinity, many of which do not contain all possibilities. Atoms would also need to rearrange themselves to be my copy, on the smallest of scales we would have no atoms to form copies.
So we can indeed conceive of an infinity (space and even time) where just because we have an infinity does not mean every possibility could/SHOULD occur, there are indeed limitations.
If this is the case then, how do we reconcile this with a universe infinite in an outward sense? I think the concept of a 'boundary' in time/space is a human notion. And as much as I hate the idea, I think that the Universe is indeed infinte, but as with the infinity of my hand - somehow, infinite spacetime does not necessarily have everything - everything in this case being exact copies of entitities/instances. I think that's more easily digestable than infinite copies of me, that sounds ridiculous, that's even before we deal with the 'measure problem'.
I enjoyed the conversation between Kuhn and Rees - especially when the latter said "whatever our preferences are we should accept that we just don't know" .... "remember that our preferences count for nothing and we must accept the universe as it is" - I became concerned when Kuhn was interviewing Aguirre and the latter said "you will agree" (why ? - this cannot be matter of fact) and "but its true" (when there is no evidence to support what he speaks about)
Thanks Robert it’s mind boggling .
It seems the big questions are unanswerable at least until we humans have complete unification and have the entire population asking the same question all at the same time .
Solutions will appear and then work on the next big question
Trying to understand eternity whether it's time or space is a fools errand. I believe there's an end to matter but no end to nothingness.
Of all the abstract ideas, the concept of infinity is, by far, the least well understood. Beginning in grade school, we are all taught that infinity is “not a number”, however, the general tendency is to simply think of it as a really, really big number. This common misconception leads us to erroneously ask such questions as “Is the universe infinite?” The best way to dispel this misconception is to think of infinity as something that is incomplete or unfinished and is eternally so. However, to actually be something is to be necessarily complete. For example, an airplane is only truly an airplane when each of its essential components are present and assembled in the appropriate manner. Prior to this, whatever things exist (components, assemblies, etc.) are merely in the process of becoming an airplane. Likewise, the sum total of all that there is ( the Universe) must necessarily be complete (finite), at least in so far as it exists at any given time. In other words, there are no actual infinities, only potential ones.
A better wording of the question might have been “Is the Universe unlimited or unbounded?”
The problem is that unlimited or unbounded are not the same as infinite (certainly not mathematically). The surface of a sphere or a torus is unlimited, but it's finite.
The idea that if the universe is infinite there must be an infinite number of repetitions of what we know (including ourselves) isn't supported by logic. As Rees says, we must accept the universe as we find it, regardless of preference. So, to assume that infinity simply leads to repetition is to say that there is not an infinity of possibilities. If there is no infinity of possibilities (as in there are repetitions) then there is no infinity! Infinity actually means that nothing repeats or is reiterated. If there are repetitions then it is some kind of cyclical universe, and the only reason for assuming repetition of what we know is that we are egotistical creatures who can only imagine the universe as we find it, rather than accept the infinity of possibilities offered by the idea of an infinite universe, including an infinity of conditions of the universe which are not the same as those we know.
My head hurts. In a good way. I love this channel 😁
Thanks for so many great interviews. You ponder the questions many of us have. It's disturbing to think slightly different versions of ourselves might commit atrocities. To be known that way isn't good. Oh, to be "God" for a day. To know. But maybe all-knowing grows old. No more surprises? No more newness. Could this be the Bane of existence? When there's nothing new under the sun... existence fades away.
My favorite episode so far!!
Robert…you are closer to truth. I guarantee it!
im pissed that no one mentioned Roger Penrose's Conformal Cyclic Cosmos Theory
If the universe is infinite then it wasn’t created. It has always existed.
@Luca Duca it came into existence all on it's own.
...it began infinitely long ago...:P
Luca Duca, this is where the most likely answer involves religion. “Time”, is just a piece of infinity. Our piece of infinity began with the Big Bang. “Time” will end with us.
The whole cosmos is bounded by space, time and causation. So, it is infinite in time but finite in space-time like waves of an ocean. As long as we have physical body and mind we can never perceive which is beyond space, time and causation. The absolute truth is beyond any type of dimension or dimensions but supporter of everything. It is really miracle.
Many world's interpretation should have it's place in this topic.
that was good
A definite meaning would be difficult to produce for an indefinite cosmos!
Infinite possibilities!
It looks to me that when people start talking (philosophying) like this they are getting farther from the truth, not closer.
It’s interesting to me that unbiased science is the obvious sub-message here and that our own preferences should be (no matter how rational we think they are or otherwise) put aside for the truth that science is supposed to give us. If only mainstream scientists would do this more often. I’ve seen a great deal of evidence for the propagation of many things outside, or just outside the mainstream scientific view that are immediately rejected with great prejudice. Not because of conflicting theories, or evidence for the counter, but just because “it just can’t be true”. Is a scientist not supposed to be an explorer? Daring to question and explore all possibilities. I appreciate this channel because it does just that, and though some bias is implied, it’s never taken as more important than the truth it journeys to uncover!
An infinite universe. It sure puts things in perspective.
This idea that in an infinite cosmos everything that is possible happens is a common misconception. First of all, you have to add the qualifier „eventually“, i.e., at some point. But second of all, you have to go to the more technical statement „the chance of something that is possible to eventually happen is 1.“
Here’s the important difference: if you throw a dart on a idealized dart board, hitting any particular point has probability 0. But of course, you may hit some point! Even though the chance of that not happening is 1 at any given time.
Just because the probability of something is 0 or 1 doesn’t mean it cannot or will eventually happen.
Also note that theorems that derive probability 0 or 1 rely on important assumptions on independence of events. Say you have a stochastic process that iterates through even numbers if a coin toss at the beginning is heads, and through off numbers otherwise. Then, reaching any particular number is a priori possible. However, after the coin is tossed, a lot of numbers become forever unreachable. That is because the events depend on each other in a particular way.
Because of this channel, it's make me see and think outside of my bilieve
Finite is simply a definition of confinement
Numbers provide the perfect example. No matter the number, it can increase
The Stuff-Side is Infinite,
the Life-Side is Eternal,
the Beings is Eternity.
thx for this episode ... gave me more insight to this infinity issue but one infinity was omitted
the 3 infinities of our universe are
1) space
2) time
3) and energy
and all these combined is the source of "infinite possibility"
i consider these the fundamental source of all that is
and coincidently... God too is trinity.
The idea of of forever. With out end used to scare me. But I realized its the truth. And if there is s forever. Then the possibility of god became real to me. How can somethingl exist with out end. It just keeps on,going. At that point I realized that our world our existence. Is more than the here and now. We also might live forever death may not be the end. Just a layer. A small,piece of the truth. And after death we see that that was just page of our existence. A transition. After all one of the laws of thermodynamics, says that nothing is disyroyed it only changes. So we may not die in,the sense of distroyed. Some part of us may live on. This is echoed in,religion. As well,as science. And is very plausable. As I see it..
Not only will we never know the nature of existence or infinity but we CAN'T know it. But that doesnt mean we shouldn't be looking for it. I mean most people will stop looking and just live their lives. But scientists and philosophers can't help but look. That's what makes them scientists and philosophers.
The _vampire_ cosmologist at the begging of the documentary really knows his stuff.
It’s infinite possibilities.. it’s perfect.
I was enthralled
Hold my beer while I try to figure out what the hell this guy is talking about.
By definition, if there is no finality, there can be no beginning
11:07
A very important lesson to learn.
The universe is not intuitive. Intuition has evolved and was trained to understand our everyday environment (at most). But there is no reason to believe it is reliable beyond that.
Regarding the segment at the end about morals; you can have different sizes of infinities. So if we start with 50/50 on good/bad choices morally, but progress to 60/40, that would be a bigger infinity for good. The goal would be to keep progressing and creating a bigger difference in the ratios.
Compared to nowadays science, religion sounds rational and is a true haven for one's peace of mind LOL.
Love the series.
What would it mean to me? in the time I have left it means absolutely nothing, the universe ends for us when we die,..unless reincarnation is true, otherwise it really doesn't matter if it's infinite or not.. .
Love this channel when I'm high.
You don't seem to be the only one - but at least you are honest enough to admit it. Enjoy, and be careful
This video is inc... Really incredible.
Way understated channel
Wow! We really are closer to truth... knowledge is power!!!
i love this channel it’s a hit
Yes there is something outside the observable universe,light has been limiting our view
This maybe the best concept of infinity Ive heard (also it Independently coincides with what I believe although stated much better). 8:34
Very interesting topic and waaaaaaayy too short a discussion!! Or...the complete interviews are only available through a subscription, eh??
"... but I cannot fathom it." Is that not just within the definition of "infinite"? If something has no boundaries, how to grip it? There is no way to come closer to infinity, we're all in it, in all directions, then. I think the idea to create or increase the total amount of happiness in the universe is hubris. To not harm and to do what one can in what reality we can grasp, on the other hand, is a moral obligation, because we can foresee consequences of our actions, here.
I sincerely thank you for posing these thought-provoking and important questions.
With a finite number of symbols, we can create infinity. ;)
I think what Robert is trying to convey is that he (and the rest of us) can conceptually conceive of infinity, but cannot really comprehend it or its implications. Which, being finite beings, is probably the best we can hope for.
On the moral argument - I don't see it as hubristic; it's simply impossible if the universe is in any way infinite. We don't know whether the universe is infinite, so "your" moral imperative translates into the same if the universe is finite, and is the best solution even if it is infinite. So I prefer it as a formulation of a moral imperative; it does ruin the paradox a bit, though. ;-)
Wow that's awesome to consider!
Infinite cosmos is interconnected of infinite love and affection between everything, humans, nature, universe, it's ever lasting process. This process occurs only in the balanced state of mind in humans, frequency is equal for everything.
"I'M ALREADY...GETTING...DIZZAY"