DEFINITION...instead of using the word INFORMATION we should use DATA.. A single element is inert, is a DATUM and needs another DATUM to create a relationship The
The best of the best of all related videos of the TH-cam for the last 10 years. Thank you so much for the video! (W. Heisenberg: energy is information)
Wow, I loved this episode. The concept of integrated information and also the relation between matter, energy and information as explained by Dr. Gutt is more down to earth and aligned with current understanding. In the other hand, what Dr. Loyd said seems a matter of definition of what a computer constitutes
The minimum number of things necessary for a universe is three things - 1. A particle 2. A space 3. A binary orientation for that particle to be positioned in that space
Mathematics and information are constitutive not only descriptive... Every particule in the Cosmos is simply values; and the laws are relationships between them.
But mathematics are not causal of anything. Therefore we have to ask why mathematics work on themselves. Sin mathematics can only be accessed through minds and minds are limited, ther has to exist a mind to make sense of the mathematical truths. This lake God necessary.
@@antoniomoyal Mathematics can be causal. You just don't recognise it for what it is. Programming languages are Mathematics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence Programming languages manipulate computers, and therefore they have a causal effect on reality. So if you buy into the metaphor (or fact - whatever) that the universe is a computer, then you should also buy into the argument that it has an "operating system" which we are trying to reverse engineer through science.
Ι see in the comments that there is a gap in some people's coherent reasoning here, a lot of people confuse the meaning of the word "simulation" which means the gross copy of reality, with the meaning of the word "calculate" and "computing" which means I use information (maths) to calculate and come to a conclusion. Human consciousness can not be simulated, it can only be understood as an intrinsic integrated information.Excellent video, one of the best channels on youtube.So it is obvious that we Don't live in a "simulation"🙂
This is my favorite episode. ❤ At some deeper level the universe is exchanging bits of information in a giant version of a Jacquard machine. I , therefore, propose we call the universe Jacques!
This series has some great episodes but also some redundant ones as well. I guess it’s a focus on the human experience rather than a series on the study of cosmology.
"Information is the descriptor for what matter and energy present to our consciousness." Correct. I wish to emphasize that information is formed by our consciousness. None in the universe.
@@86645ut Reality can't change. So, you say that information (description of the forces of nature, for instance) doesn't change. Not so. Our knowledge of nature has changed over the centuries. Information resides in our brains, not in nature.
It is extraordinary to me that nature seems to do things much the same way we do things in virtual reality. Right down to only really simulating the parts of the universe that are being observed or measured in some way. Every time two particles interact, the bits flip- processing takes place- and so the universe always maintains the causal chain of events and is ready to spit out the end result at any given moment for any who cares to measure or observe it. But until then it rests in super position- neither this nor that- but some crazy mix of possibilities that sits in-between ready to collapse one way or the other into a 3d reality our senses can process. It reminds me of those cheap paper backs we read as kids- if you choose action A go to page 23- if you choose action B go to page 38, etc., etc.- each path leading to it's own unique result. In those books your possible futures already exists- they're already laid out in black and white, determined. You can skip ahead and see your fate- do our futures already exist out there- some when? Relativity would suggest they do- if someone can see my future- it must exist in some sense. It boggles the mind- but chasing the answers brings us closer to truth.
_In the beginning was the Logos_ *Logos,* a spoken _idea_ (from Greek idea 'form, pattern,' from the base of idein 'to see') - both a noun (from Latin nomen, name) and verb (Latin verbum, word) simultaneously, a unified duality, a singularity - which presumes an intelligent agent operating with _information_ (from inform 'give form or shape to' also 'form the mind of, teach' from old French enfourmer, from Latin informare 'shape, fashion, describe,' from in- 'into' + forma 'a form.') to create the _universe_ (Latin universum, neuter of universus 'combined into one, whole,' from uni- 'one' + versus 'turned,' 'a turn of the plow, a furrow, a line of writing' from vertere).
The idea from John 1:1 (and the unification you speak of) is still with us: right at the heart of modern-day computer science in the mantra "code is data - data is code". It is also known as homoiconicity ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity ). I am sure you'll draw your own parallels to things being made in their own image ;) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So we invented our own, powerful languages. So powerful we can manipulate reality (computers) with them. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language_theory
@@dragonskinavi I think what people think is broken is how entropy and chaos effects our lives. Life is the antidote to entropy simply because it is a reset with each generation. How wonderful the experience of life is. Even with the twists and pitfalls. Enough that God would become a man. We live in the Garden and return to our origins.
I consider information to be a layer of abstraction used to describe things. It is useful to us because we can use it along with processes to do things.
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
@@russellhinton9272 The NT records show Yeshua foretelling his crucifixion death and resurrection to fulfill prophecy and witnesses who testify to it; 100s of years later Mohammad wrote the Quran denying Yeshua the Messiah ever died at all thereby undermining the entire new covenant, which was prophesied by Jeremiah around 600 years earlier, and the justification of humanity to inherit eternal life through the Messiah's lifeblood shed in his sacrifice.
I'm not so sure dark energy/dark matter are not just a mathematical substitution for the plasma and dust that makes up most of the universe. What information is scribed into is life. If not tell me how we have the information in DNA. The odds of it being random takes into impossibility.
Could dark energy be what is lost/produced by black holes . Isnt there a idea that some info is actually lost . Maybe its info that is no longer entangled ?
@@cajones9330 Dark energy was inferred by measurements of "standard candle" nova. I'm not convinced it is real. Stephen Hawking made the statement that information was lost in a black hole. Leonard Susskin showed it was not lost.
Thanks for another great episode! It seems to me that the bedrock of cosmology is indeed information, however this tenet can't be held in a trascendental sense. In the last analysis we always see our own reflection in the mirror of the universe, because we are nature's legislators as Kant said more than 200 hundreds years ago. However it is interesting that some acts of inspiration, and altered states of consciousness give us glimpses of how this thing-in-it-self actually works, which brings to mind this passage from Philip K. Dick, VALIS (1981): "Entry #48. ON OUR NATURE. It is proper to say: we appear to be memory coils (DNA carriers capable of experience) in a computer-like thinking system which, although we have correctly recorded and stored thousands of years of experiential information, and each of us possesses somewhat different deposits from all the other life forms, there is a malfunction - a failure - of memory retrieval. There lies the trouble in our particular subcircuit ‘Salvation’ through gnosis - more properly anamnesis (the loss of amnesia) - although it has individual significance for each of us - a quantum leap in perception, identity, cognition, understanding, world- and self-experience, including immortality - it has greater and further importance for the system as a whole, inasmuch as these memories are data needed by it and valuable to it, to its overall functioning. Therefore it is in the process of self-repair, which includes: rebuilding our subcircuit via linear and orthogonal time changes, as well as continual signaling to us to stimulate blocked memory banks within us to fire and hence retrieve what is there. The external information or gnosis, then, consists of disinhibiting instructions, with the core content actually intrinsic to us - that is, already there (first observed by Plato; viz: that learning is a form of remembering). The ancients possessed techniques (sacraments and rituals) used largely in the Greco-Roman mystery religions, including early Christianity, to induce firing and retrieval, mainly with a sense of its restorative value to the individuals; the Gnostics, however, correctly saw the ontological value to what they called the Godhead Itself, the total entity."
I lost this when one of the interviewees casually referred to Newton's explanation of understanding "everything" was understanding the position and velocity of every single particle. There is something more than particles to the universe, you know. Consciousness, for one thing. It would have been much more interesting to look at the idea that consciousness underlies everything, and uses information to structure it. Much more comprehensive.
@@daithiocinnsealach1982 Well, because it is. Reductionism is the standard scientific response, I agree, but it is not based on the manifest evidence in this case. Indeed reductionism is actually a tenet of faith, one of many underlying the scientistic world view.
This channel does have videos on the idea of consciousness being fundamental, should look them up they are pretty good. Also search "panpsychism" for some great talks and conversations on the same.
@@davidford694 I agree, and actually I think about this a lot. Neitzeiche said "god is dead" and asked what comes next, and it seems that humanity has used whatever innate feeling that made us religious to turn science into a spirtual view.
@@BlastinRope Once you realize that all systems of thought, even the most rational and evidence based, stand on a foundation of assumptions, a.k.a. beliefs, the difference between science and religion is greatly reduced.
But what if the structure is also held together by information? Because just as we think of our consciousness as the software and our bodies as the hardware…our bodies are held together by fundamental particles which are held together by informational forces. 🤷♂️
This has been one of my very favorite PRESENTATIONS OF Frontline. It validated adn reinofroced a bunch of mental junk ive been twiddling with for quite a while now. This is one of the very few YT Bits that I fhonestly intend to revisit, multiple times. INFO IS REALITHY IS INFO IS REALITYU. Lol
Wow so many top scientists in one video, and as always, brilliant questions Robert. I am confused about something though; is there an actual relation between 'quantum information' and the 'integrated information' of IIT? (Other than them both using the word 'information'.) This might seem like a silly question since I don't know the mathematics behind them.
I don't buy that. I think there is regulation and some sort of karma involved. Also there is the brain being evolved to give direction to billions of cells which a human consist of, which by evolution helps us using information and energy much more efficient in order not to die soon. Regarding humans as individuals we succeed at that pretty well in the animal kingdom. When you look at us as species we're also very good at destroying ourselves. Danger is when humans wait for some divine intervention and throw away their own responsibility. That way, I believe religion and tribal squabbling might be the biggest threat to humankind. Polarisation and individualism (disguised as democracy and or whatever political system) is irresponsibly stupid and backward evolution.
I find that information gives energy and matter their functionality, dependent on human perception (consciousness and conscience), (in)forming our realities. So, if you try to escape this law of physics (like politicians do all the time), universal entropy (disorder) is accelerated, when we abide to it (within the limitations of reality, I coined 'realimiteit') a state of equilibrium can be reached, which needs to be steered in real time with information.
There is no naturally occurring information in inorganic matter. The human mind can realize/assign information to matter because the mind is intelligent.
You’re missing the bigger point here. The idea is that matter (organic of otherwise) IS essentially just information. Think about it, what is matter made of?
@@stromboli183 I don't see it that way, I guess it comes down to how you define information. Information in a book is not in the ink or paper which is just matter but in the arrangement created by an intelligent mind and only an intelligent mind can receive the information.
A mind is essential to make a mind, a greater intelligence and the ultimate intelligence. It cannot be less intelligence, it has to be a greater intelligence.
If we are living in a simulation, then information could be the config file that the virtual machine used to get all the parameters during the boot up process (aka, the big bang).
Particles / matter and energy seem to come from information. Information itself likely comes from mathematics and perhaps logic. Large amounts of matter and energy probably came from large amounts of information. What are the other possibilities that the large amounts of matter and energy came from?
So basically, the universe is an ordered system. Either information has emerged from the universe, or the universe emerged from information? Perhaps the information only exists as a concept in our minds as we observe and measure the universe? Or perhaps information is a product of intelligent design...?
Information doesn't have mass. There's infinite information within a single atom. Information merely enables the perception of mass through sensory filters which are infinitesimally small representational slices of the amount of information that's actually there in objective reality.
My theory (in part) of cosmological phenomenon: light is information emitted by the energy/matter transaction between matter and energy - like a receipt - to be read by the nucleus in regards to the health status of the cellular structure in which the nucleus presides.
You are accepting a falsehood. I KNOW that there is a God thanks to my personal experiences of Him/Her/It. The real questions are where did Creator come from and what is the purpose for creation? The answers are available.
Maybe we're getting closer to the truth. But there are always new questions. The truth is as big as the universe. When people learn, they travel in it. ...much faster than the speed of light.
A lower level definition of computing is that it is control of energy transfer within nanoseconds or picoseconds, from input to output of a system guided by stored energy levels.
It's "Bits from It," not the other way around. Mind is primary. It projects ItSelf in a fractal holographic chaotic distribution, with every moment of choice in every seemingly individuated mind being a full-throttle instance of the Whole, just like the Upanishads said. The main thing to know is that your choice at that point is between Ultimate Mind versus any lifeless variation in the cosmos' programming. The Upanishads did not grok the essence of this relentless and deeply personal choice. But now (since 1948) we can, because information theory and system dynamics make plain the lay of the land for us.
In the beginning was the Word and that Word was with the Ultimate Intelligence, which gives definition and identity to all things. Without the Ultimate Intelligence, nothing has meaning, nothing is identified, nothing is defined. But giving existence to the Word, all things were then created and given identity and definition.
Information is stored on matter/energy, and in return, it tellˋs matter/energy how to change/what to do, and what to be! The laws of physics themselves are made of information!
25:31 simulating whole universes will be possible on quantum computers someday imo. Quantum computers rn can do trillions of calculations, I think the question is more software directing the quantum computer to be realistic. Rn with normal computers we have AI synthesizing past information rapidly to make predictive models and they're only getting better and better, you also have unreal engine 5 which looks absolutely mind-blowingly realistic. I think we're heading towards Star Trek like holo decks and AI like Data from Star trek predicting exactly what will happen next.
To know the Universe, you must drill down to it smallest parts, far smaller then atoms and muons, etc. Information at thislevel hasn't been locally imprinted unless by an Observer like Us. This is how we individually and collectively create a reality we can work with. Watch Don Hoffman as well! At the smallest level, there is no spin, no computations, just pure energy.
I'm 52 yo and growing up in America and going to school in the 70's and 80's, the most famous video by far would be the JFK Dallas tape. So when I saw it had been supernaturally changed, from 4 people to 6 in a totally different looking car, I knew I was either within a simulation, or the presence of god-like beings. The nature of this realm is not knowable. It's an interactive system. It knows you are looking at it.
Information is something only consciousness can comprehend and give meaning to . There could also be a non- conscious form of information processing that does not involve consciousness, matter, space or time but there is no way to prove it other than to witness it's results.
Discover "faith in God" in the scientific methodology through only three stages: Faith in any hypothesis precedes the discovery stage Faith exists in any hypothesis Faith is the basis for building epistemological knowledge.
In Vedant , one of SANATANI philosophy , fundamental reality is called as Sat i.e existence (fundamental building block); chitta l.e knowledge (information); & Anand (bliss) . All these three r one and same thing.
Watching these makes me realize that conversations are a poor medium to explain abstract ideas. As somebody who hadn't understood the information theoretic view of universe until coming across the right book, I suggest learning stuff like this from books. They provide the required conceptual background and illustrations to help understand information and entropy. These conversations may make you feel like you've learned something but it'll be of a shallow nature rather than an intuitive understanding.
It's difficult to disentangle the idea of information being fundamental vs. information simply being useful to describe reality. To me, what would be interesting is to know how many fundamentally different things are fundamental to reality. Is reality is one fundamental thing like information that is merely interacting with itself, or is it different things interacting? For instance, are the laws of physics, physical stuff itself and consciousness three fundamentally different things, or all the same thing just 'shaped' and existing in different ways? Consciousness itself is one thing that appears to be completely indistinguishable from simulation. If I had a computer that perfectly simulated a human brain and had perfectly simulated stimulation of that brain (inputs), in theory, it would be as conscious as a real brain. And I think this coincides with the information theory of consciousness. This is evidence for the idea that consciousness is fundamental and not emergent. Whether that leads directly to panpsychism I'm not entirely sure.
See Alan Guth here and compare to older videos. Now check him out on an interview with Roger Penrose and skydivephil which is newer. This guy is getting younger!
If information is fundamental to existence, then isn't the ability to be impressed upon by information even more fundamental? It'd be interesting to overlap some of the ideas of these scientists with Alfred Whitehead's concept of "prehension". Information only informs if there is something experiencing it. Focusing on the information seems to be missing the forest for the trees. Edit: seems like the German scientist towards the end addresses this. I like this guy.
I guess in cosmos the happening of events of any order and type is the source of information. to put it any sub-part of cosmos provides information but information itself cannot create cosmos
@@bodie16 information doesnot exist independently without physical matter/energy , information represents certain properties/parameters/conditions of physical matter/energy. To answer ur query "certain properties/parameters/conditions of physical matter/energy" causes events and not the pure/mere information about those properties/parameters/conditions that cause/trigger events
@@kmmahendra9205 I think the confusion here lies in the very meaning of the word 'information'. The way I see it, there are basically two types of information. Firstly there's the 'information' we're all familiar with - the properties, parameters and conditions that describe any particular object or system. We could call that human information. But the 'information' that creates the cosmos is something entirely different in nature. It's not 'information' in the way we normally perceive of it. This is a purely natural, spontaneous and inevitable 'information' that basically provides the 'coding' for the manifestation of existence itself. I guess the most applicable name we could give it would be _divine_ information; and its workings are entirely beyond our human understanding, of course.
@@mikefoster5277 do u think the author and experts in the video are talking about divine information ? What makes u think so ?. They are speaking about sceintific information.
@@kmmahendra9205 I agree with you entirely - and that is surely the mistake they're making (if they truly want to answer the original question)? They're simply not recognising the difference between the two types of information. And being scientists, why would they anyway? To them, information = scientific information. Just as if it were theologians being interviewed, they probably wouldn't be thinking much in _scientific_ terms either! So perhaps what we really need is some kind of bridge between the two - a more open-minded coming together somehow of science and spirituality - to form a more wholly complete picture? (And I believe there are at least a few people currently involved in such research).
@@mikefoster5277 u make sense to me now after claiming that u are talking about divine information. Problem with spirituality is as of now : do u have real tangible meaningfull evidences to justify your view with regards to this article/video in discussion ?
Fantastic content as always..will you please interview Melvin Vopson at the University of Portsmouth ? He a has a newly published paper on the equivalence of information, matter and energy. There is even a proposed experiment to prove it. Anyway, it is cutting edge and related to this
Consciousness is deeper than information. Consciousness creates information and the rest can be explained by physics. But, consciousness exists beyond space time and information.
Information doesn't create the cosmos. Information waves are the fabric of the cosmos. And, as demonstrated with the famous double slit experiment, a conscious observer converts those information waves of potentiality / probability into "particle", "matter", or "cosmos". The Prime Observer creates the Cosmos.
@S Gloobal no , there is 0 evidence for this. Experiment shows that the Universe does not require any god or creator. If you say god created it then who created that god ?
Quantum superposition, wave-particle duality, tunneling, entanglement, etc. would all seem absurd in classical thought and reasoning. Yet, the truth of these Quantum properties is undisputed within the scientific community.
Good stuff.. IF it's true that our universe is a computer simulation, there would be a finite number of localized clock cycles.. is it possible this could suggest an underlying cause of time dilation? To SIMULATE a spaceship approaching the speed of light, other functions of the local simulation must slow down, like TIME..?? I'm sure someone can punch holes in that..
Yes, time dilation does suggest a computer simulation type universe. Also, a massive body, like a black hole, takes up so much processing power that time in the vicinity of the black hole runs slower.
That's true, but only if the universe is the type of computer we understand. Where the model gets tricky is considering things like computational power, since the universe sort of runs itself. It may make more sense, then, to think about the universe as being the result of a function within a computer: a simulation. If, however, the universe is a computer simulation, we have to define the terms. I will split the universe into two parts: the function converting previous conditions into new ones, the universal function; and the space onto which the conditions are mapped, the universal map (creative, I know.) Given that the universe is the universal function displayed on the universal map, computational energy needs to be redefined, as well. Computational energy, here, is just the necessary conditions for the universal function to compute a new result. Considering all of this, the only options I can see are: A) The computational energy for the universal function is derived from the function in itself. This basically means that the function happens because it happened before. The problem with this model is it doesn't explain initial conditions, since there would be no previous state of the function. This is only explained if you say the universal function does regress infinitely, but, until the big bang, it computed a null state. B) The computational energy for the function is derived from the universal map. This basically means that the only condition for the function is the space onto which it is mapped. This also results in weird initial conditions, but can't be explained off the same way. This either says the universal map has existed for forever or it doesn't exist. Basically it doesn't work. C) The universal function has no computational energy, it runs arbitrarily. No contradictions I can see here, but it becomes a bit hand wavey. The whole point is basically just to say the universe can't itself be a computer running a simulation which is itself. It can be broken up and re-explained, but it doesn't make sense to say it's easier to compute things if time slows unless you believe this universe is a simulation in a computer.
@@egg5188 An excellent comment.. When I first heard Nick Bostroms logical arguments for simulation Theory, I was fascinated but unconvinced.. ALL matter (Energy) carries complex coded information BUT of a nature which excludes the necessity of a CODER.. Decoders of that latent information is what biological life-forms do, but again, no simulation Theory is necessary, so is more like baggage... Opinions friend? Questions?
@@michaelrichardson9458 thanks for your comment.. I agree that this could POTENTIALLY be a fulfilled prediction that simulation Theory might make.. I've always been fascinated by the idea.. Unfortunately overall, this theory has no CREDIBLE support.. can you think of anything else?
@@billnorris1264 unfortunately no, its all speculation as far as I can see Pretty interesting though as you say. The universe certainly has the appearance of something made, built, designed even. What with the complexity of systems like stars, solar systems galaxies and of course, life. When I look at things like the "molecular machinery" that maintains a functioning cell, or the golden ratio popping up all over the place, the "fine tuning" of the four fundamental forces and many other examples it is difficult not to think that this universe could be the product of an intelligent mind.
DEFINITION...instead of using the word INFORMATION we should use DATA..
A single element is inert, is a DATUM and needs another DATUM to create a relationship
The
The best of the best of all related videos of the TH-cam for the last 10 years. Thank you so much for the video! (W. Heisenberg: energy is information)
Wow, I loved this episode. The concept of integrated information and also the relation between matter, energy and information as explained by Dr. Gutt is more down to earth and aligned with current understanding. In the other hand, what Dr. Loyd said seems a matter of definition of what a computer constitutes
@David Lotti It doesn't, but it's funny seeing you people randomly invoking God everywhere
It from bit.
You from goo.
It's for videos like this I am subscribed to this channel. Truly the cutting edge of human knowledge right now.
penis from venus lol
The minimum number of things necessary for a universe is three things -
1. A particle
2. A space
3. A binary orientation for that particle to be positioned in that space
Time
i love your channel, so well done, hard problems made easy to understand. I love it, for real
Mathematics and information are constitutive not only descriptive... Every particule in the Cosmos is simply values; and the laws are relationships between them.
But mathematics are not causal of anything. Therefore we have to ask why mathematics work on themselves. Sin mathematics can only be accessed through minds and minds are limited, ther has to exist a mind to make sense of the mathematical truths. This lake God necessary.
@@antoniomoyal Mathematics can be causal. You just don't recognise it for what it is. Programming languages are Mathematics.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspondence
Programming languages manipulate computers, and therefore they have a causal effect on reality.
So if you buy into the metaphor (or fact - whatever) that the universe is a computer, then you should also buy into the argument that it has an "operating system" which we are trying to reverse engineer through science.
@@tgenov if information is the fundamental reality then that means we can simulate a universe.
@@jrhendry8744 You mean like physics simulation in software? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamical_simulation ;)
The discrete, finite minds of humans cannot describe or comprehend reality.
Ι see in the comments that there is a gap in some people's coherent reasoning here, a lot of people confuse the meaning of the word "simulation" which means the gross copy of reality, with the meaning of the word "calculate" and "computing" which means I use information (maths) to calculate and come to a conclusion. Human consciousness can not be simulated, it can only be understood as an intrinsic integrated information.Excellent video, one of the best channels on youtube.So it is obvious that we Don't live in a "simulation"🙂
This is my favorite episode. ❤ At some deeper level the universe is exchanging bits of information in a giant version of a Jacquard machine. I , therefore, propose we call the universe Jacques!
Your series is thought provoking. Well done sir.
The intro of this channel is mysterious.
Information is the descriptor for what matter and energy present to our consciousness.
I’ll buy that, of course that still leaves you with the hard problem.
This series has some great episodes but also some redundant ones as well. I guess it’s a focus on the human experience rather than a series on the study of cosmology.
"Information is the descriptor for what matter and energy present to our consciousness." Correct. I wish to emphasize that information is formed by our consciousness. None in the universe.
@@jeancorriveau8686 , actually the information is within reality. Our conscious brains perceives it. There’s no evidence of anything else.
@@86645ut Reality can't change. So, you say that information (description of the forces of nature, for instance) doesn't change. Not so. Our knowledge of nature has changed over the centuries. Information resides in our brains, not in nature.
It is extraordinary to me that nature seems to do things much the same way we do things in virtual reality. Right down to only really simulating the parts of the universe that are being observed or measured in some way. Every time two particles interact, the bits flip- processing takes place- and so the universe always maintains the causal chain of events and is ready to spit out the end result at any given moment for any who cares to measure or observe it. But until then it rests in super position- neither this nor that- but some crazy mix of possibilities that sits in-between ready to collapse one way or the other into a 3d reality our senses can process. It reminds me of those cheap paper backs we read as kids- if you choose action A go to page 23- if you choose action B go to page 38, etc., etc.- each path leading to it's own unique result. In those books your possible futures already exists- they're already laid out in black and white, determined. You can skip ahead and see your fate- do our futures already exist out there- some when? Relativity would suggest they do- if someone can see my future- it must exist in some sense. It boggles the mind- but chasing the answers brings us closer to truth.
_In the beginning was the Logos_
*Logos,* a spoken _idea_ (from Greek idea 'form, pattern,' from the base of idein 'to see') - both a noun (from Latin nomen, name) and verb (Latin verbum, word) simultaneously, a unified duality, a singularity - which presumes an intelligent agent operating with _information_ (from inform 'give form or shape to' also 'form the mind of, teach' from old French enfourmer, from Latin informare 'shape, fashion, describe,' from in- 'into' + forma 'a form.') to create the _universe_ (Latin universum, neuter of universus 'combined into one, whole,' from uni- 'one' + versus 'turned,' 'a turn of the plow, a furrow, a line of writing' from vertere).
The idea from John 1:1 (and the unification you speak of) is still with us: right at the heart of modern-day computer science in the mantra "code is data - data is code". It is also known as homoiconicity ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity ).
I am sure you'll draw your own parallels to things being made in their own image ;)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So we invented our own, powerful languages.
So powerful we can manipulate reality (computers) with them.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language_theory
Thanks for sharing, Lord-Jesus-Christ com
The best channel on youtube by far
What a time to be alive..
Great content. Glad I found your channel!
Well, if the cosmos is a giant computer program, then I can only hope that it's fixed in the next release.
What's there to fix? Everything is perfect as it is.
Cosmos 2.0
@@dragonskinavi I think what people think is broken is how entropy and chaos effects our lives. Life is the antidote to entropy simply because it is a reset with each generation. How wonderful the experience of life is. Even with the twists and pitfalls. Enough that God would become a man. We live in the Garden and return to our origins.
iUniverse X will be released in a couple billion years but you won't be able to import your contacts however.
Yep. Better fix the 2020 bug!
As long we need natural language to talk, we are locked in and lost in our world named consciousness.
The CTT presentations are always so engaging and informative.
I consider information to be a layer of abstraction used to describe things. It is useful to us because we can use it along with processes to do things.
why can't it be both? Collateral and integral to the thing itself?
As a composer, I absolutely love the music in this series, including the theme.
Hasn’t everything that has existed already existed, and it’s more of a question of discovery
Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Perfect2020Storm , so the prophet Mohammed and Jesus are actually the same ideal
@@russellhinton9272 The NT records show Yeshua foretelling his crucifixion death and resurrection to fulfill prophecy and witnesses who testify to it; 100s of years later Mohammad wrote the Quran denying Yeshua the Messiah ever died at all thereby undermining the entire new covenant, which was prophesied by Jeremiah around 600 years earlier, and the justification of humanity to inherit eternal life through the Messiah's lifeblood shed in his sacrifice.
No one knows
Russell Hinton - depends on what time line you are standing in.
Additionally, the dark energy / dark matter in the cosmos may be the medium upon which the "information" is scribed, imho.
Do you when know what that's supposed to mean?
And what is energy/dark matter made of then if not of information?
I'm not so sure dark energy/dark matter are not just a mathematical substitution for the plasma and dust that makes up most of the universe. What information is scribed into is life. If not tell me how we have the information in DNA. The odds of it being random takes into impossibility.
Could dark energy be what is lost/produced by black holes . Isnt there a idea that some info is actually lost . Maybe its info that is no longer entangled ?
@@cajones9330 Dark energy was inferred by measurements of "standard candle" nova. I'm not convinced it is real. Stephen Hawking made the statement that information was lost in a black hole. Leonard Susskin showed it was not lost.
One day we will understand it. Understand why we can't understand. Now days this mainly just hurts the ego.
Thanks for another great episode! It seems to me that the bedrock of cosmology is indeed information, however this tenet can't be held in a trascendental sense. In the last analysis we always see our own reflection in the mirror of the universe, because we are nature's legislators as Kant said more than 200 hundreds years ago. However it is interesting that some acts of inspiration, and altered states of consciousness give us glimpses of how this thing-in-it-self actually works, which brings to mind this passage from Philip K. Dick, VALIS (1981): "Entry #48. ON OUR NATURE. It is proper to say: we appear to be memory coils (DNA carriers capable of experience) in a computer-like thinking system which, although we have correctly recorded and stored thousands of years of experiential information, and each of us possesses somewhat different deposits from all the other life forms, there is a malfunction - a failure - of memory retrieval. There lies the trouble in our particular subcircuit ‘Salvation’ through gnosis - more properly anamnesis (the loss of amnesia) - although it has individual significance for each of us - a quantum leap in perception, identity, cognition, understanding, world- and self-experience, including immortality - it has greater and further importance for the system as a whole, inasmuch as these memories are data needed by it and valuable to it, to its overall functioning. Therefore it is in the process of self-repair, which includes: rebuilding our subcircuit via linear and orthogonal time changes, as well as continual signaling to us to stimulate blocked memory banks within us to fire and hence retrieve what is there. The external information or gnosis, then, consists of disinhibiting instructions, with the core content actually intrinsic to us - that is, already there (first observed by Plato; viz: that learning is a form of remembering). The ancients possessed techniques (sacraments and rituals) used largely in the Greco-Roman mystery religions, including early Christianity, to induce firing and retrieval, mainly with a sense of its restorative value to the individuals; the Gnostics, however, correctly saw the ontological value to what they called the Godhead Itself, the total entity."
Wow, both Paul Davis and Max Tegmark were there! I am thrilled ... when is the next meeting? Can I come?
Love my boy RLK! Thanx for the content my friend 👍👍
I lost this when one of the interviewees casually referred to Newton's explanation of understanding "everything" was understanding the position and velocity of every single particle. There is something more than particles to the universe, you know. Consciousness, for one thing. It would have been much more interesting to look at the idea that consciousness underlies everything, and uses information to structure it. Much more comprehensive.
Why do you suppose consciousness is anything more than the sum of its parts?
@@daithiocinnsealach1982 Well, because it is. Reductionism is the standard scientific response, I agree, but it is not based on the manifest evidence in this case.
Indeed reductionism is actually a tenet of faith, one of many underlying the scientistic world view.
This channel does have videos on the idea of consciousness being fundamental, should look them up they are pretty good.
Also search "panpsychism" for some great talks and conversations on the same.
@@davidford694 I agree, and actually I think about this a lot. Neitzeiche said "god is dead" and asked what comes next, and it seems that humanity has used whatever innate feeling that made us religious to turn science into a spirtual view.
@@BlastinRope Once you realize that all systems of thought, even the most rational and evidence based, stand on a foundation of assumptions, a.k.a. beliefs, the difference between science and religion is greatly reduced.
Information requires a structure. It is the observation of the dynamics of the underlying being.
But what if the structure is also held together by information? Because just as we think of our consciousness as the software and our bodies as the hardware…our bodies are held together by fundamental particles which are held together by informational forces. 🤷♂️
This has been one of my very favorite PRESENTATIONS OF Frontline. It validated adn reinofroced a bunch of mental junk ive been twiddling with for quite a while now. This is one of the very few YT Bits that I fhonestly intend to revisit, multiple times. INFO IS REALITHY IS INFO IS REALITYU. Lol
Consciousness seems much more fundamental than the information that appears within consciousness.
gives me more traction continue applying information
Wow so many top scientists in one video, and as always, brilliant questions Robert.
I am confused about something though; is there an actual relation between 'quantum information' and the 'integrated information' of IIT? (Other than them both using the word 'information'.) This might seem like a silly question since I don't know the mathematics behind them.
I don't get it, but you should check this out:
www.researchgate.net/publication/325592381_Quantum_Integrated_Information_Theory
Our ignorance of the multiverse does not justify faith as the basis of epistemological scientific knowledge
.
@@mustafaelbahi7979your ignorance justify your words, though
Information comes from an informer.
God
@@antoniomoyal Great Organizational Design
I don't buy that. I think there is regulation and some sort of karma involved. Also there is the brain being evolved to give direction to billions of cells which a human consist of, which by evolution helps us using information and energy much more efficient in order not to die soon. Regarding humans as individuals we succeed at that pretty well in the animal kingdom. When you look at us as species we're also very good at destroying ourselves. Danger is when humans wait for some divine intervention and throw away their own responsibility. That way, I believe religion and tribal squabbling might be the biggest threat to humankind. Polarisation and individualism (disguised as democracy and or whatever political system) is irresponsibly stupid and backward evolution.
“Licky Boom Boom Down” -MC Snow
I find that information gives energy and matter their functionality, dependent on human perception (consciousness and conscience), (in)forming our realities. So, if you try to escape this law of physics (like politicians do all the time), universal entropy (disorder) is accelerated, when we abide to it (within the limitations of reality, I coined 'realimiteit') a state of equilibrium can be reached, which needs to be steered in real time with information.
There is no naturally occurring information in inorganic matter. The human mind can realize/assign information to matter because the mind is intelligent.
You’re missing the bigger point here. The idea is that matter (organic of otherwise) IS essentially just information.
Think about it, what is matter made of?
@@stromboli183 I don't see it that way, I guess it comes down to how you define information. Information in a book is not in the ink or paper which is just matter but in the arrangement created by an intelligent mind and only an intelligent mind can receive the information.
A mind is essential to make a mind, a greater intelligence and the ultimate intelligence. It cannot be less intelligence, it has to be a greater intelligence.
Robert Lawrence Kuhn Walking ‘round the Jungle In a Turtle-Neck - LOVE IT!
If we are living in a simulation, then information could be the config file that the virtual machine used to get all the parameters during the boot up process (aka, the big bang).
Particles / matter and energy seem to come from information. Information itself likely comes from mathematics and perhaps logic. Large amounts of matter and energy probably came from large amounts of information. What are the other possibilities that the large amounts of matter and energy came from?
Information cannot manifest without a physical substratum.
Information does not need the physical, it is the physical that needs the information.
who says it must be physical?
@@Noferrah give me an example of information that has no physical manifestation.
Absolute...YES will be the answer , according to Douglas. B. Vogt of Diehold Foundation!
So basically, the universe is an ordered system.
Either information has emerged from the universe, or the universe emerged from information?
Perhaps the information only exists as a concept in our minds as we observe and measure the universe? Or perhaps information is a product of intelligent design...?
Great questions and answers
Information is a aide, but potency is the cause of anything being created information in itself isn't enough.
?? Potency
"In the beginning information flowed from an Infinite Mind and gave rise to time, matter and energy."
Thank you Rob! :)
Information doesn't have mass. There's infinite information within a single atom. Information merely enables the perception of mass through sensory filters which are infinitesimally small representational slices of the amount of information that's actually there in objective reality.
The idea is that the concept we call ‘mass’ is also just information.
My theory (in part) of cosmological phenomenon: light is information emitted by the energy/matter transaction between matter and energy - like a receipt - to be read by the nucleus in regards to the health status of the cellular structure in which the nucleus presides.
Since there is no other possibility, the answer must be "yes"
If all this is real computers naturualy work because we're in a universe that works like a computer, how can AI not become sentient?
Are we not ready yet to accept,there is no creater but only creation.
You are accepting a falsehood. I KNOW that there is a God thanks to my personal experiences of Him/Her/It. The real questions are where did Creator come from and what is the purpose for creation? The answers are available.
how would these gentle people feel about entanglement and the most fundamental form of information?
Maybe we're getting closer to the truth. But there are always new questions. The truth is as big as the universe. When people learn, they travel in it. ...much faster than the speed of light.
Yes. we are light.
Information created the cosmos and the cosmos exudes information.
NO ONE EXCEPT THE ONE.
A lower level definition of computing is that it is control of energy transfer within nanoseconds or picoseconds, from input to output of a system guided by stored energy levels.
could information be consciousness
It's "Bits from It," not the other way around. Mind is primary. It projects ItSelf in a fractal holographic chaotic distribution, with every moment of choice in every seemingly individuated mind being a full-throttle instance of the Whole, just like the Upanishads said. The main thing to know is that your choice at that point is between Ultimate Mind versus any lifeless variation in the cosmos' programming. The Upanishads did not grok the essence of this relentless and deeply personal choice. But now (since 1948) we can, because information theory and system dynamics make plain the lay of the land for us.
In the beginning was the Word and that Word was with the Ultimate Intelligence, which gives definition and identity to all things. Without the Ultimate Intelligence, nothing has meaning, nothing is identified, nothing is defined. But giving existence to the Word, all things were then created and given identity and definition.
@@bodie16 I believe I mentioned that. My comment is about the video.
I agree with Mr Carroll
Information is used to create reality. Information itself cannot and does not create.
Information is stored on matter/energy, and in return, it tellˋs matter/energy how to change/what to do, and what to be! The laws of physics themselves are made of information!
25:31 simulating whole universes will be possible on quantum computers someday imo. Quantum computers rn can do trillions of calculations, I think the question is more software directing the quantum computer to be realistic. Rn with normal computers we have AI synthesizing past information rapidly to make predictive models and they're only getting better and better, you also have unreal engine 5 which looks absolutely mind-blowingly realistic. I think we're heading towards Star Trek like holo decks and AI like Data from Star trek predicting exactly what will happen next.
I wish we had holodecks now! I am sad I won't be around for that.
To know the Universe, you must drill down to it smallest parts, far smaller then atoms and muons, etc. Information at thislevel hasn't been locally imprinted unless by an Observer like Us. This is how we individually and collectively create a reality we can work with. Watch Don Hoffman as well! At the smallest level, there is no spin, no computations, just pure energy.
Doesn’t create the cosmos it is the cosmos!! The cosmos is reducible to bits of information!!
I like closer to truth very much, but the amount of ads is upper limit... unfortunately.
Reality is information
I'm 52 yo and growing up in America and going to school in the 70's and 80's, the most famous video by far would be the JFK Dallas tape. So when I saw it had been supernaturally changed, from 4 people to 6 in a totally different looking car, I knew I was either within a simulation, or the presence of god-like beings. The nature of this realm is not knowable. It's an interactive system. It knows you are looking at it.
But are you aware that it’s looking at you?
Best Wishes,
Clueless Exhibitionist
So even food is information!
John 1:1 in the beginning was the word..........
Specified power. Significant concatenation of living organisms.
Does the processing of numbers and mathematics lead to information for energy and mass?
Information is something only consciousness can comprehend and give meaning to . There could also be a non- conscious form of information processing that does not involve consciousness, matter, space or time but there is no way to prove it other than to witness it's results.
Discover "faith in God" in the scientific methodology through only three stages:
Faith in any hypothesis precedes the discovery stage
Faith exists in any hypothesis
Faith is the basis for building epistemological knowledge.
The only question now is, how do we level up?
By suffering
I would like to see him talk to Douglas Vogt .
In Vedant , one of SANATANI philosophy , fundamental reality is called as Sat i.e existence (fundamental building block); chitta l.e knowledge (information); & Anand (bliss) . All these three r one and same thing.
Science always points to a Designer
Watching these makes me realize that conversations are a poor medium to explain abstract ideas.
As somebody who hadn't understood the information theoretic view of universe until coming across the right book, I suggest learning stuff like this from books. They provide the required conceptual background and illustrations to help understand information and entropy.
These conversations may make you feel like you've learned something but it'll be of a shallow nature rather than an intuitive understanding.
Which books would you recommend?
It's difficult to disentangle the idea of information being fundamental vs. information simply being useful to describe reality. To me, what would be interesting is to know how many fundamentally different things are fundamental to reality. Is reality is one fundamental thing like information that is merely interacting with itself, or is it different things interacting? For instance, are the laws of physics, physical stuff itself and consciousness three fundamentally different things, or all the same thing just 'shaped' and existing in different ways? Consciousness itself is one thing that appears to be completely indistinguishable from simulation. If I had a computer that perfectly simulated a human brain and had perfectly simulated stimulation of that brain (inputs), in theory, it would be as conscious as a real brain. And I think this coincides with the information theory of consciousness. This is evidence for the idea that consciousness is fundamental and not emergent. Whether that leads directly to panpsychism I'm not entirely sure.
See Alan Guth here and compare to older videos. Now check him out on an interview with Roger Penrose and skydivephil which is newer. This guy is getting younger!
If information is fundamental to existence, then isn't the ability to be impressed upon by information even more fundamental? It'd be interesting to overlap some of the ideas of these scientists with Alfred Whitehead's concept of "prehension". Information only informs if there is something experiencing it. Focusing on the information seems to be missing the forest for the trees.
Edit: seems like the German scientist towards the end addresses this. I like this guy.
Consciousness could be processing numbers and mathematics into information.
I guess in cosmos the happening of events of any order and type is the source of information. to put it any sub-part of cosmos provides information but information itself cannot create cosmos
@@bodie16 information doesnot exist independently without physical matter/energy , information represents certain properties/parameters/conditions of physical matter/energy. To answer ur query "certain properties/parameters/conditions of physical matter/energy" causes events and not the pure/mere information about those properties/parameters/conditions that cause/trigger events
@@kmmahendra9205 I think the confusion here lies in the very meaning of the word 'information'.
The way I see it, there are basically two types of information. Firstly there's the 'information' we're all familiar with - the properties, parameters and conditions that describe any particular object or system. We could call that human information. But the 'information' that creates the cosmos is something entirely different in nature. It's not 'information' in the way we normally perceive of it. This is a purely natural, spontaneous and inevitable 'information' that basically provides the 'coding' for the manifestation of existence itself. I guess the most applicable name we could give it would be _divine_ information; and its workings are entirely beyond our human understanding, of course.
@@mikefoster5277 do u think the author and experts in the video are
talking about divine information ? What makes u think so ?.
They are speaking about sceintific information.
@@kmmahendra9205 I agree with you entirely - and that is surely the mistake they're making (if they truly want to answer the original question)?
They're simply not recognising the difference between the two types of information. And being scientists, why would they anyway? To them, information = scientific information. Just as if it were theologians being interviewed, they probably wouldn't be thinking much in _scientific_ terms either! So perhaps what we really need is some kind of bridge between the two - a more open-minded coming together somehow of science and spirituality - to form a more wholly complete picture? (And I believe there are at least a few people currently involved in such research).
@@mikefoster5277 u make sense to me now after claiming that u are talking about divine information.
Problem with spirituality is as of now : do u have real tangible meaningfull evidences to justify your view with regards to this article/video in discussion ?
first comment hurray.. love you guys. stay safe.
Does processing of information develop energy and mass?
Fantastic content as always..will you please interview Melvin Vopson at the University of Portsmouth ? He a has a newly published paper on the equivalence of information, matter and energy. There is even a proposed experiment to prove it. Anyway, it is cutting edge and related to this
Does the information know it's information? If not, how would information know how to cause anything?
Hi Robert, excellent episode. Can I get in touch with you? This is my area of investigation, I would add to Wheeler's "IT from Absent-Bits"
Consciousness is deeper than information. Consciousness creates information and the rest can be explained by physics. But, consciousness exists beyond space time and information.
I thought Information comes from Data...
....and data comes from Stuff (materials; etc) interacting?
God damn Right
Does information create the cosmos, or does the cosmos create information?
Kudos -- 444 Gematria -- 🗽
We need to fix version 2020… There’s some bugs 😩
The players need to change.
These ones are mean lol
Sheena Alexis87 you said it 😩😂😂
Information doesn't create the cosmos. Information waves are the fabric of the cosmos. And, as demonstrated with the famous double slit experiment, a conscious observer converts those information waves of potentiality / probability into "particle", "matter", or "cosmos". The Prime Observer creates the Cosmos.
Who is the prime observer ? Experiment does suggest this , but this sounds absurd.
@@JoshIzAPlay3R Humans living on a rock in the middle of nowhere is absurd, yet we take it for granted and accept it as nornal.
@S Gloobal no , there is 0 evidence for this. Experiment shows that the Universe does not require any god or creator. If you say god created it then who created that god ?
@@JoshIzAPlay3R Now that's a good question.
Quantum superposition, wave-particle duality, tunneling, entanglement, etc. would all seem absurd in classical thought and reasoning. Yet, the truth of these Quantum properties is undisputed within the scientific community.
Good stuff.. IF it's true that our universe is a computer simulation, there would be a finite number of localized clock cycles.. is it possible this could suggest an underlying cause of time dilation? To SIMULATE a spaceship approaching the speed of light, other functions of the local simulation must slow down, like TIME..?? I'm sure someone can punch holes in that..
Yes, time dilation does suggest a computer simulation type universe.
Also, a massive body, like a black hole, takes up so much processing power that time in the vicinity of the black hole runs slower.
That's true, but only if the universe is the type of computer we understand. Where the model gets tricky is considering things like computational power, since the universe sort of runs itself. It may make more sense, then, to think about the universe as being the result of a function within a computer: a simulation.
If, however, the universe is a computer simulation, we have to define the terms. I will split the universe into two parts: the function converting previous conditions into new ones, the universal function; and the space onto which the conditions are mapped, the universal map (creative, I know.) Given that the universe is the universal function displayed on the universal map, computational energy needs to be redefined, as well. Computational energy, here, is just the necessary conditions for the universal function to compute a new result. Considering all of this, the only options I can see are:
A) The computational energy for the universal function is derived from the function in itself. This basically means that the function happens because it happened before. The problem with this model is it doesn't explain initial conditions, since there would be no previous state of the function. This is only explained if you say the universal function does regress infinitely, but, until the big bang, it computed a null state.
B) The computational energy for the function is derived from the universal map. This basically means that the only condition for the function is the space onto which it is mapped. This also results in weird initial conditions, but can't be explained off the same way. This either says the universal map has existed for forever or it doesn't exist. Basically it doesn't work.
C) The universal function has no computational energy, it runs arbitrarily. No contradictions I can see here, but it becomes a bit hand wavey.
The whole point is basically just to say the universe can't itself be a computer running a simulation which is itself. It can be broken up and re-explained, but it doesn't make sense to say it's easier to compute things if time slows unless you believe this universe is a simulation in a computer.
@@egg5188 An excellent comment.. When I first heard Nick Bostroms logical arguments for simulation Theory, I was fascinated but unconvinced.. ALL matter (Energy) carries complex coded information BUT of a nature which excludes the necessity of a CODER.. Decoders of that latent information is what biological life-forms do, but again, no simulation Theory is necessary, so is more like baggage... Opinions friend? Questions?
@@michaelrichardson9458 thanks for your comment.. I agree that this could POTENTIALLY be a fulfilled prediction that simulation Theory might make.. I've always been fascinated by the idea.. Unfortunately overall, this theory has no CREDIBLE support.. can you think of anything else?
@@billnorris1264 unfortunately no, its all speculation as far as I can see Pretty interesting though as you say.
The universe certainly has the appearance of something made, built, designed even. What with the complexity of systems like stars, solar systems galaxies and of course, life. When I look at things like the "molecular machinery" that maintains a functioning cell, or the golden ratio popping up all over the place, the "fine tuning" of the four fundamental forces and many other examples it is difficult not to think that this universe could be the product of an intelligent mind.
The episodes explore very fundamental questions that baffle humanity for millennia.