No Generator RV Alternator Charging Electrical System Overview & Performance | Go North Explore More
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode we take a detailed look at the electrical system that we installed in the Go North expedition truck camper. The system was designed to run primarily off truck alternator charging and some solar power. While the system worked well and allowed us to operate without a generator for a 6 month Alaska trip we did hit a few snags and discuss improving the system using a DC-DC converter between the vehicle and the RV.
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We are the Mortons On The Move and we typically live full-time in our fifth-wheel RV and travel the country. In the summer of 2019 we took a Lance Truck Camper north through Canada and Alaska, all the way to the Arctic Ocean! We blog, video, and share our journey on social media. We'd love for you to join us!
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More info in 20 minutes than I've been able to find in the last six months!
While I would want to go with a generator and a few lithium batteries I found your setup fascinating. Love seeing how people engineer solutions to various problems. Really enjoyed the go north series. Wife and I would watch it together every time a new episode came out.
Great detailed description of the system that highlighted pro’s and con’s in actual use. Describing how you used the system and what it allowed you to do in your real world situation makes it interesting. There will always be those that say you “could have, should’ve” done something better. However, yours worked and everyone gained knowledge from it. Great video series!
I have done some experimenting over the years with a two inverter setup.
Buy a 12 or 24 volt 3000 watt Victron MultiPlus inverter and a Victron Solar Charge Controller.
This inverter will let you limit the 120 volt input current to as low as 7.5 amps.
This 7.5 amps can be combined with the battery power in what Victron calls PowerAssist.
These are super cool features no mater if the shore power is coming from your friends house while moochdocking or pulling power from a second cheap pure sine wave inverter located in your pickup truck.
That's right install a 12 volt 2000-3000 watt inverter behind the divers seat in the truck. Use a temperature gun to check the temp of your large single or two mid-sized alternators or better yet install a alternator temp gauge to read in the truck. You will be able to control the amp draw on your alternator via Bluetooth on your phone by adjusting the Victron Multiplus back in the 5th wheel.
You will have to check on the capabilities of you alternator. 7.5 amps x 120 volts is 900 watts available to your MultiPlus.
900 watts / 13 volts is 69.2 amps + truck inverter losses. Probably 75-80 amps to your alternator.
This setup gives you the most flexible way of charging from your truck without overheating your alternator(s).
Your LFP Batteries will only get charged from two very high quality Victron charging sources (Solar & MultiPlus).
You will also have high current 120 volt ac power in your truck when you are away from your 5th wheel. (who wouldn't want that)
And by the way you will need a 200 amp breaker & 200 amp continuous duty relay under the hood controlled by your truck ignition to disconnect the truck inverter when the truck is not running. Skipping the breaker could result in a fire if you have a short on the way to the inverter behind the drivers seat. Skipping the relay will result in many dead truck batteries.
You might have already thought about something like this
Been doing this on my 2800 watt magnasine charging 700ah lead batteries for 10 years.
My Travel trailer is set to max 500 watts and my truck inverter is a 600 watt pure sine wave xantrex .
Rick
That is one way to do it, Being able to control the charge / draw is so great with the victrons!
I can’t wait for Tesla to come out with their version of a Sprinter van. I want an all electric RV.
What a fantastic presentation, Tom. Seriously. 🙌
Thanks guys!
@@MortonsontheMove ,.
Very instructive, and the point about the second alternator was interesting
Lots of discussion here about the limited benefits of the 2nd alternator. My thoughts also - seems like they left a lot of stones unturned here. I understand Hymer worked out a similar system (EcoTrek). Hymer is now bankrupt, but I understand the system is still available through Roadtrek. It uses a 2nd engine driven generator with lithium batteries and inverter in lieu of a generator. It also has a Voltstart feature which automatically starts the engine when the battery level gets too low. I have no personal experience with it, though I understand it was installed in a few hundred production RVs, and requires little technical knowledge to operate.
Hello Tom ! WOW ! you did yourself proud in this vlog . You definitely know your stuff to the max that is for sure . . You did a fantastic job explaining it all . Thanks for posting this vlog . Hows the Tesla system working out in your 5TH wheel ? Is it working to your satisfaction ? I hope we can meet up if your wife & you ever travel back down here to the Tampa Bay area . Please say Hello to your sweet wife for me . Your a great couple & you compliment each other . Stay well & stay safe . Cheers ! Tom !
Another option would be to order the truck with one alternator, since there is room for a second one, have a good alternator/starter shop build you a custom one wire alternator in the available space.
Great option for anyone not wanting the generator.
That’s a great suggestion but you would still need the DC-DC charger. I know it sounds weird but when your bulk charging Lithium batteries a DC-DC charger makes everything run smoother.
@@HaugenDustin very true since lead acid stops bulk charging sooner and lithium charges at a higher voltage. Some of that can be built into the alternator but not as easy as your suggestion.
That's why I'd have my small Honda eu2200i generator & 5 gal gas can. Then you could be putting atleast 100 amps into batteries while driving. It's also a great emergency backup. Well done.
We traveled to alaska last year and we had a goose down comforter and had no issue with keeping warm, no electricity needed. We left alaska the first of October and traveled through Canada where we were in snow, ice , rain and cold temperatures below freezing weather. We have 6 go cart batteries, 2000 pure wave inverter and a generator that we put on our livin lite 24 ft toy hauler.
I watched your video on charging the RV house batters with the vehicles alternator. I believe a possible solution to your problem of the alternator overheating would be an external alternator regulator. The reason I suggest this is an external alternator can monitor the temperature of the alternator and reduce its output if the alternator temperature get to high. Search TH-cam for: ( Improve your Alternator Charging with an External Regulator ). This video explains the External Regulator and its function. Good Luck.
Yes that would work there are lots of good options to do that. But to keep the trucks charging system intact and DC -DC works too. Great to have temp sensing on the alternators tho.
Great video and great analysis as usual. While you were covering the issue with the alternator and drawing 180 amps I was screaming GET A DC TO DC CHARGER. Of course great minds arrived at the same place 😏
Thank you for watching! :)
You need a DC to DC charge control device to regulate a certain amount of amperage not to overload the alternators for lithium iron phosphate batteries.
Read a post the other day that one of the major rv manufactures were marketing an RV without a generator but instead use 1,000 watts of solar panels and 10 battleborn batteries with a 5KW inverter. It ONLY COST an additional $20,000 dollars!
one of the most informative videos I have ever watched... Thank You!
Valuable & inspiring info, Mortons on the Move ⭐️ silence is a precious thing
Excellent video!! Thank you very much for such a great detailed summary!!
This system is perfect for a weekend trip 👍🏼
very informative, thanks, we're getting ideas together for our retirement travel trailer and this video is especially helpful, particularly the info about the double alternators!
Also most newer HD diesel pickups have an option for a “high idle” switch for things such as PTO, but could also put out more amps to the charger in this case.
Yep, like this: th-cam.com/video/QrzBMEC8Vjk/w-d-xo.html
As with many of us who have gotten involved with lithium batteries you too have gone through the learning curve of "how to keep them charge". By now now I'd think you would have added some more solar, I have 320 watts and one Battle Born 100A that meets my electrical needs.
You answered my AC question. I have a Yamaha 1800 i generator mounted on the back of my Cirrus camper it fits perfectly below the rear latter. When running its 60 decibels loud but not that bad. It's been scorching hot out West so I anticipate using it when dry camping. The DC TO DC device I think I'll add that next week. Thanks for all this valuable info. I'm running two 100 Amp hr Lithium batteries with the Victron 100/30 charge controller which I think will be enough for my needs.
Wow, outstanding video quality. Now I have start researching Panasonic cameras. Was heading towards Canon, but the video quality your getting is convincing me to check out the G5. Good work.
What you need is a wind generator mounted to the roof of the camper so it generates power while you drive and when parked when there is wind. A Eu2000 is quiet at low load and can run on propane, another approach is to make the generator even more quiet with a quiet box for it that you locate away from the truck.
The second alternator could also be fixed instead of using it the OEM way. Thanks for the videos.
BTW, those batteries are freakishly expensive solution.
Hi All, Great video!! The best solution is to install a lithium ion alternator, either 12 or 24 volts based on your needs. I think the issue Tom might be having with the alternators turning off after a few hours might be due to placing the charging negative cable to the battery negative. The Ford electrical system monitors the power to the battery. Ford recommends that any accessory used some other ground, not the battery. My guess to why the both alternators turned on, after a few hours was that your RV batteries were charged. The ford system does not want to over charge the truck battery, so it might only use one alternator with a higher voltage. Once it detected the batteries no longer needed charging, it turned on both alternators. This is my best guess based on the issue Tom was having. I might try this in the future, as I have two alternators at 397 AMPS, I think.
Love your channel. Looking forward to more videos of your new truck camper.
We followed your trip & enjoyed it. Your setup of the batteries would be way above most folks budget. Looking forward when these prices drop. I think it is the future.
Nicely done. I’m considering a Transit based AEONrv which runs totally on solar and gasoline with no generator. It is purpose built with 10 Battleborn batteries. It includes a DC-DC system as you noted plus a second alternator on the rig’s engine. The Ford 3.5L apparently doesn’t mind idling when necessary. I’m leaning toward a gasoline fueled rig for that reason. I like not making unnecessary noise in the wild.
I remember you a million years ago when you rigged up a back camera to watch your boat trailer, you were genius then
Yep, I used the Red Arc DC/DC converter and only 4 AWG. Works great! Thanks for the video! Removed my gen set first thing, don't need it at all, but then I don't use my air conditioner. I use only 2 100 AH batteries. I carry a small efficient generator if I need air.
You're welcome! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Simply EXCELLENT engineering!!
LIFEPO4 batteries are awesome!
I think the key thing to do is increasing access to the second alternator, it should not be hard to do and never use the size of the cable as a current limiter it can overheat the wire and cause damage, a modern electronic charger should be able to limit charging current
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's a shame that there's this beautiful source of additonal power _right there_ (the second alternator), but you _can't use it!_ Arrrgh!!! 😡
The problem is that everything is computer controlled these days, so there's probably no way an amateur do-it-yourselfer can bypass the truck's software in order to activate the second alternator when more power is wanted. ☹
You should reconfigure this into a 48v -12v hybrid system. A bidirectional 3kw dc dc converter would drop your charge times from the alternator drastically and reduce the strain on your alternator. See what Integrel is doing with marine and Saifrey in Australia is doing.
You could have gotten a Diesel generator, hooked up to the fuel tank of the truck. That would have allowed you to have fuel to run when ever you needed, instead of running the truck motor at idle and no louder than the truck idle. Vehicle alternators are not designed to charge Lithium Ion Batteries which was your other problem. Since you had a telescopic pole for your internet, why not have another telescopic pole with a wind turbine on it to add to the charging when the sun was not enough? Great video, thanks for sharing. Peace, Mo
I haven't seen any of your other videos, So i'm not 100% sure. But most manufactures that pre-wire solar use a cheap PWM (Pulse Width modulation) solar charge controller. They're inexpensive and fine for small systems. However, with a system like this you would want an MPPT (Maximum power point tracking) charge controller. MUCH more efficient and you get a lot more out of the panels already installed. A lot of people jump quickly to more panels when in fact a good MPPT charge controller is all they need.
Good video and perhaps you had a good charge controller for solar, But didn't see it mentioned.
You did a great job of giving me a huge amount of information in a short time. I try never to reinvent the wheel so your TH-cam video (& others) have helped me immensely. I particularly love the component layout diagrams for your system and the way that you freely admit that not every decision was the ultimately correct way to go. Those kinds of hints are what really help. Some off-grid DIY'rs think of themselves as experts because they built one, small solar system but most forget to really explain the "why" of what they are doing and - my biggest pet peeve - they either forget to show the fuses, circuit breakers, shunts and the wire's AWG size/rating OR they didn't know and just never fused their circuits and just bought or used whichever wire size was handy. Either way it made their videos only partially useful.
Thanks again. I'll probably be referencing this video as I get farther along with my own off-grid system at my cabin. I won't be able to use any of the truck-tied charging items but the rest is gold.
P.S. Many times you said that the big draws on your system were the freezer and the electric blanket. If it was cold enough for an electric blanket then the freezer could have been put outside like strapped to the roof (bears). It'd be un-handy there but you probably don't go into the freezer more than once a day or even less. Here in Minnesota I don't think about an electric blanket until my room drops below 45 degree (F) which is when it gets down to 0 (F) outside - because I shut off the furnace at night. I keep my freezer suspended from a branch using a pulley system which takes me 2-3 minutes - once a day - to retrieve something for lunch and dinner. Just saying.
Additional info. - I don't mean to compromise you sponsor because Battle Borne is a great battery and company but even with their recent price drop I would have to pay $5000 for (5) 100Ah Battle Borne batteries (with change left over for a tank of gas). There are so many ways to store the same energy for approx. 1/4 to 1/2 that amount. I bought (3) slightly used 138Ah 1766Wh 12v batteries on ebay for a total of $1050 including shipping and state sales taxes. That's over 400 Amp Hours for $260 per 100 Ah. 1/4 the cost of Battle Borne and BigBattery 100Ah units. Every one of these "used" batteries have tested out at from 2% to 4% OVER the rated Ah & Wh ratings.
Thank you! Glad it was helpful. :)
Awesome recap! Stay safe and healthy!
I'm retired and live full time in a 40' motor home. I went with four 250ah AGM batteries and 700 watts of solar I have a large draw, aqua hot pumps/fans, 12 volt compressor style norcold 1200 series refrigerator, another 55 lt refrigerator in the basement and all of the normal inside loads...so some days the generator doesn't run, some days I need an hour to 1.5. Thank you two for the great videos you do.
nice intro of your system enjoyed it👍..we use B2B boosters to better charge Lifephos even when idling..sort of DC to DC as well..alternatively an DC /AC converter can feed the Victron or other chargers like a generator would do..May be limited to 60- 80 Amps ( charger size i have 3 installed) ..as we carry only a 160 Ah Lifephos that does it fairly quick, plus 10-12 amps max from solar even when driving down the Road in sunlight.. so charging is ok ( only drawback we have is the absorber fridge it mostly runs of propane..or up to 10 amps /12 V....great review of yours love it👍👍
thanks for the great info, I am helping a friend to build a system on a 40 ft sailboat and it uses AGM's at the moment that are 16 years old and still running fine but are due for replacement. We are looking into using Lifepo batteries to replace them. One thing that has been a help is almost everything on the boat is running on 12 vdc, for laptops dc to dc converters and 12vdc to usb power sockets for phone charging etc. Also all lighting is LED onboard so batteries last great. not having to convert 12v to 120vac often helps a lot. Still if we are out for a long weekend (still no solar or wind gen.) the batterys can get near their 50% use rating unless we run the engine for severial hours. Solar is in the plans as possibly wind gen but I have also seen a fuelcell for this use thats is a good generator replacement, one sailor has a youtube on it.
Excellent summary of your experience. I'm planning to install a Victron Orion 12/24-15 DC-DC converter for my 24V lithium battery in my camper before the camping season this summer, to supplement my roof mounted solar panels. However, I'm still taking my Honda 2000 generator just in case, lol. Planning a five week trip from Michigan to California, heading west on US-2 then down the Oregon coast to Crater Lake, Lake Tahoe and Yosemite, then back through Moab on the way home. I can't wait.
Good luck with your trip! :)
I have a offgrid house, and I was soo happy when I got a inverter and batteries, the generator running gets old soooo FAST! Having silent power is awesome, like being on grid, 24v and 1200ah battery, but something like a rv or boat, I'd go 12v with a larger alternator, and a DC to DC charger, about 40 amps for 200ah, say 250-300amp alternator, with 6 LiFepo batteries, and 3 , 40 amp DC chargers, and about 400-800 watts of pv, and a 1500-2500 watt inverter, a bit much for a small camper,
I am ’m the best of the 4i
You really needed to fit a DC to DC boost charger - I have one by Renogy - they cap the current to 20, 40, or 60amps depending on your system - we use the little 20a one on a 120a alternator as we have 280w of solar and our battey is smaller
I agree and have the Renogy 60 amp DC/DC. All of the Renogy chargers may at times pull up to 50% more current which is a consideration depending upon the size of your alternator. A 16-18 ga wire from the charger to an ignition circuit turns the charger when it detects current. It also has a current limiting feature that cuts the output in half when current is detected in a separate 16-18 ga. wire. I have mine wired to a three way toggle switch in the cab. This allows me to turn it off when it is not needed or to prevent the alternator from overheating, run it at 60 amp maximum power, or run it at 30 amp if the batteries are charged and I only want to run the refrigerator.
@@Roy-ij1wq wowwww a constant 60 amp is huge especially if it has to jack up the voltage on a long run - perhaps 80+ at the alternator - I hope its well cooled - My alternators sheltered behind the engine so wanted to be kind 20+ amps plus the 12a fridge is enough background load on it
I meet a guy in Canada who had a generator head under his truck and with a manual trans and they have a plate on the side for a pro and he ran a ver short drive shade to the generator head and he would put his transfer case in neutral and put his trans in 4-5 gear to spin the pro at proper speed .
pre obd2 vehicles simply have a tickler..hence the ramp up to max watts. From 1996 onward the big 3 all have the thinking alternator for the ECM sensitivity. You can have 100 amps at 1k rpm or less...at the expense of heat, as the internal fan is not moving fast. Another bonus, there is about a 10 year gap after 96 where just buying a new alternator is an upgrade. I like this setup.
Great design on the system my only concern is that when the truck is running and the battery isolator closes, you’re pairing lithium batteries and lead acid in parallel which will degrade both of the batteries. What you need is a dc to dc charger inbetween the batteries to properly regulate everything instead of the isolator. That’s why you had the problem with the alternator because there was nothing regulating the current.
Tom,
We spoke briefly at the RVillage conference in Florida. I have a 24 volt lithium battery system with 930 watts of solar on my fifth wheel. I have a 2018 Ford F-450. I have a 1200 watt inverter that I'm thinking of installing in the truck. I'm then thinking of running a 10 gauge wire at 120 v to the fith wheel and using the Victron Inverter in the trailer to charge the lithium batteries while towing. I know you told me there would be some loss in converting from DC to AC and then back to DC, however it seems much less complicated and would allow me to use the systems I already have in place.
What do you think?
Fantastic video! We have many of the same wiring principles on our sailing catamaran. Could follow along with all of the wiring schematics and gave me great insight for when I do solar panel and battery modifications to our newly acquired class a. Great job in explaining wiring principles. Good luck in your travels.
s/v No More Mondays
Good video recording but I believe you are monitoring energy in and energy out. The "power bill" is misnamed , it is actually your energy bill your utility sends you. Love your RV installed a DC-DC charger controller and I believe Ray was very happy with it.
You could isolate the second alternator, and dedicate its output to RV lithium charging, by creating your own field winding based on the alternator's temperature. Seems like a better approach than using DC to DC converters that are only guessing how much power is available.
Looks like everything was done the right way. I presume that the two car batteries were isolated as well, so you'd have one cranking battery available no matter what. I would absolutely use a DC-DC converter to supply charge to the camper battery, and would also look into having the second alternator dedicated to charging the hotel battery. Either that or beef up one or both alternators to cope with the higher charging currents.
Thank's for the review Tom; I'll be putting Battle Born in my rig. And Cait, thank you for the (3-year old) Sea Eagle 370 kayak review on Road Gear Review. You identified some big cons for us. Thanks!
Good video. Appreciate your completeness.
Wow with your info on the technology I think I would have to bring a team of engineers with me to help with the batteries on my next trip. Lots of info that would have to be studied a lot in order to fully understand the charging system .
You need both because you never know what’s going to happen . I have all three Gen-batteries Battle born 100 a piece and a dc-dc charger and with all three you have choices and my basement is heated so temp is no issues .
WOW, genius !
Smart and handsome?! I love your storytelling. You are a great team!
Phew, that is insane. 500ah . Luckily you know what you are taliking about. Thx forthis elaborte explanation.
Finally. Exactly what I've been asking for a year. How long can you live off battery? How long to charge? Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
I see about 16 minutes into the video you mentioned that my bad lol on the DC to DC converter.
Extremely informative....thank you for sharing your feedback!
Long time subscriber from 2015ish. My viewing amount has varied based on what kind of rig I thought we would be getting. I have 2 distinctly different time periods and travel types for us.....1-2 week boondocking trips in our state of CO and the immediate surrounding states for the next 5 yrs while we work. Then we will expand to 1-2 month trips to focus on specific regions in the country.
So, we recently ordered a modestly sized Outdoors RV 4 seasons travel trailer, as well as a gasser F350. Truck will be completed in April and the trailer will be ready in July.
It was great to hear your feedback with regards to the 2 alternator option in Fords. My system will be the same, as well as 2 truck batteries. I will definitely take heed to your DC to DC recommendations!!
Safe travels....and you can always moochdock with us here in Ouray.
Thanks for watching all these years and congratulations on your new travel trailer! :)
There is trouble charging that types of batteries from the truck charging system. The lead acid battery have high resistance but lithium battery have very low resistance. So the lithium batteries charge up faster and the charging system is looking at its batteries so it can be a problem. Some have made the second alternate just change the camper batteries and the controller for that is made for that type of batteries. Another thing is to add more solar panels to help change the camper batteries. But it looks like you got the system to work good for you. Thank you for the information! I don't have a camper, but live where there are stores and the power is out for days. I have been working at getting LiFePo4 batteries to run things when the power is out. I hope to get some solar panels but they don't give much power in the middle of a Hurricane! So I need to work out how much battery I will need to keep some lights in the house and run a small inverter to power Wifi laptop and TV. It is really nice to be able to see what the storm is doing.
Terrific presentation with great explanations. Thank you so much for doing this!
You're welcome! :)
I watched someone else suggest not to hook up on your engine battery, but to instead go from your alternator to a Regulator that connects to your RV batteries then to a DC to DC charger to your engine battery.
He stated this approach will not overheat your alternator and it can Fast Charge your RV batteries which is a bonus before having them help charge your engine battery.
Kinda in reverse of what you did.....make sense?
2021 F150 Hybrid will be a game changer.
Isn't it about time we stop filming and start recording? You did say you were processing video. Not splicing film right? Incredibly informative video. Very well done.
Excellent video and great info! 2 or 4 more solar panels and maybe your shortcomings would never have even shown up. Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
What do you guys think about F-150 Lightening will look like for such trips? Very interested in hearing your input on that and how EVs can be used without so many modifications you did for this example of Diesel Engine.
Great info, thank you !
I towed a alum jet boat and it worked out great because we hauled 4?extra propane tanks in the boat which was a win win and we used generator to top of our batteries and when we talk to Renorgy they told us to run 4/6 gauge cables to keep from drawing too much from the alternator and Iam thinking of a second dumb alternator that it’s only job was to charge batteries and we put a sensor on the extra alternator to keep a eye on the temps to keep from over heating and we had a switch on dash so we could turn the alternator on after everything was warmed up and we added a light on the dash if it got to hot we could turn it off. But with our set up it never over heated. But with the 2 LG panels at 425 watts a piece they put out a lot of power. We did use the generator just a few times just to top off the batteries if we knew it was going to be in a remote place for a extended time that’s when the Gen earned its keep and with the extra propane tanks in the boat was a great thing and we did put a 60 gal fuel tank sure made it nice on long runs. Being a retired car hauler for GM I could lay done a 1000 miles at a time it came in handy . To me the drive was sometimes was better than the destination and the 5.9 cummins just loves to have its legs stretched out there . Sorry for the ramble. Good Day !
HI MORTONS AGAIN!! as always I enjoy your videos in Arizona , God bless you !
Thanks!
I bet you can tap into the control circuit for the second alternator and force it to run when the truck computer isn't asking it to.
...or just remove the second alternator from the truck's control completely, and use it to make a completely separate charging circuit just for your camper batteries.
This video was very helpful and we were able to install a similar system on our truck camper. I do have a technical question for Tom if possible. We have a 2020 Chevy gasser that we ordered with dual alternators and are using the Li-BIM 225 that you mention (either in the video or the accompying blog post). You later mention using a DC to DC charger from Sterling in order to get a better charging efficiency from the truck. I find that no one really can give me a straight answer with technicians from Battleborn saying either the BIM is the best solution or a DC to DC charger is better and they both seem convincing (to me - I am not very knowledgable on electrical matters). Being an electrical engineer, I was wondering what you currently felt is the optimal set up?
When I called Battleborn and the Dodge dealer they both told me to run 6 ga cable so the lithium could not pull so much current and after 2 years of use it has been great and I put a flush mounted switch that lights up when on and if you forget to shut the switch off and the lithium batteries will drain your start batteries pretty quick and don’t ask me how I know .
Use a down quilts and you can idle longer because it will clean out when driven.
Very interesting, lots of good info. Very sexy design and layout.
Rather than a DC/DC converter, I would consider isolating the 2nd alternator exclusively for the lithium batteries? Then maybe a different voltage regulator (or hack the existing one) to get the voltages better optimized. It would also be nice having the systems isolated so no failure leaves you no-start-stranded (while still being able to cross connect if needed). Still, alternators just aren't designed to output their full amperage at idle RPM- you have to dump more and more current into the field windings while not having the amount of air flow for cooling that you have at higher speeds, heat goes up and efficiency go down in a sort of death spiral, realistically I think you have to accept a lower charge rate if you're at idle. Using a DC/DC converter to force more amperage from the alternators may cook them.
But- it's really hard to get past the fact that you've got over $5k in batteries alone, I'm guessing $7-8k in the whole system? And could have gotten a quiet inverter generator for less than 1/4 of that. One of the premium Honda or Yamaha models would have addressed most of your concerns about efficiency and noise. I get that the system is really cool, efficient, an excellent use of technology, truly it's a really sweet setup, but to me falls into the "if money doesn't matter and I want the best possible" category.
Probably a hybrid setup, smaller inverter with 1 or 2 of those batteries and then an inverter generator... to me that seems more optimized.
Yea you could go smaller and have a gen for sure, we just didn't want to deal with the gen and second fuel source in out tight setup. We tried isolating the second alternator but had the same overcurrent situation. The issue with isolating an alternator is that it still needs a battery in the system both to provide field current and stabilize the voltage. With the truck we could have isolated the second alternator and battery but I would still run a DC-DC. I do like that concept however and might build it out in the future.
I do something similar with several twists. I put a second 120A alternator on my 2004 F350 (OEM second alternator system) dedicated to charge my 17.5kwh, 24v Nissan leaf based battery (not controlled by the ECU or connected to the vehicle power system). I use an external 24v Transpo Voyager regulator set to 29.4v with several cutouts in the excitation supply. For it to charge, the BMS (Electrodacus SBMS 120) must allow it, the ignition must be on, a manual switch on the console must be on AND a thermostat attached to the alternator case must be less than 120C. If the battery is deeply discharged, the alternator can provide 150A (~4200w @ 28-29v) and it quickly heats up. When charging hard, the thermostat cycles the alternator excitation power (off at 120C and back on at 110C) to allow the alternator to cool. I have meters to display temp, amps and volts of both my 12v and 24v alternators in my console. The alternator runs 100% duty cycle up to around 80A and tapers to about 60% at 150A.
Thats perfect to have a alternator controlled by its thermal limit! Balmar and a few others make systems like that that can contrl the excitation via temp. Sounds like a sweet system! While the truck is too small for us i like the idea of tapping one of the dodge etorque systems to charge a battery bank!
@@MortonsontheMove Balmar systems are nice and effective but VERY $$$...my thermostat and extended length temp sensor cost about $8. The regulator was $62....the second alternator kit from a scrap yard was $175. A new alternator was $58. The amp/voltmeter were about $23.....25ft of 4ga wire about $40. A 175A connector was $10.....it was the one thing that overheated and failed.....my fault for not getting one of the pins locked in and it backed partially out on connection....just lots of labor and testing....
It might cost more money, you can put a high output alternator.
But apparently that wasn't the problem. Hell, they had TWO alternators. The problem was that Ford's software wouldn't allow the second alternator to kick in when they needed it. (Frustratingly, this really seems to a waste of that second alternator.)
It would've been great if Ford had designed a manual override to address this kind of situation, but I guess RVers using the truck's generator(s) to charge a large battery bank isn't a common enough scenario to persuade Ford to do anything like that. ☹
And unfortunately, since everything is computer controlled these days, I don't think there's any practical way that a do-it-yourselfer can create a manual override himself. ☹
@@Milesco alternators are controlled by changing voltage on the control circuit. They could create tap into that wire to force the second alternator to run regardless of what the truck computer wants.
So I just commented on your excellent video on battery type comparisons and wanted to view more of your output as a result. Two points I would like to make, or questions as it were. How much more did it cost you to eliminate your genny and probably stock flooded batteries, and replace it with your system? I'm guessing 3 or 4 times am much, and that's neglecting what was I'm sure a substantial amount of labor, which for the folks unable to do by themselves would have cost in the neighborhood of $125/hour. Additionally I will say that you should have probably bought a gasoline powered truck; a much cheaper motor option, cheaper to maintain, cheaper fuel, and less noise, (which you seem to value a lot) which also would have been able to allow a gasoline powered genny running off the main fuel tank, and even allow you to idle your engine for battery charging for a much longer period of time. A little noise now and then with the genny for sure, but would it have been worth saving several, or even perhaps many thousands of dollars? To me, the answer is most definitely yes. And, that is even not considering the fact that if you were travelling in warmer climate zones, which many of us do, your current system cannot provide a full night, let alone a full day of glorious air conditioning, that a genny can do off-grid with minimum fuel usage. I'm not ragging on you here, different strokes for different folks and all, but feel the need to point these facts out to people that might be watching your show without having a ton of cash, electrical knowhow, or product sponsorships, and especially those who don't like to sweat all night in the lower half of the USA when boondocking in the summer months. Besides that, I want to underline that the KISS system in general still has very significant advantages overall in the real world today. Again, just sayin'.......
Inverters use a lot of power making dc to ac. and I'm sure you are plugging in thins to invert that a/c to dc again to run your laptops and other devices. Most electronic devices run internally on 5 volts dc and have a circuit built into them called an A G C which takes different dv voltages that float such as what you get from a ac to dc inverter and changes it to 5 vdc. you can take these devices and plug them into a 12 auto cigarette lighter and directly into your laptops with 13.8 volts more or less and the A G C circuit will correct it so the laptop will run without the power loss from inverting the power from the n=batteries a 2nd time. LED lighting conversion is also a power saver.
informative video - thanks
in cool climates, going battery only is easy. Running an AC is the only reason to start a generator.
hair dryers, electric cookers, electric blankets, and microwaves are huge energy consumers. for all heat creating appliances, go with propane or gasoline.
what did you spend on batteries, $6k?
Did you plug your computer's in the truck because I know the truck has inverters already in the truck. I would be charging my computer on the way in the truck. Thank you 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Also, your schematic shows the batteries paralleled ladder style, but can I assume you put the positive on end of the stack, and negative on the other to distribute the load evenly so that the small resistance on interconnected batteries didn’t make the end battery connected to the load carry a bigger grunt?
Great video! Informational and well presented. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video Tom! In addition to additional PV capacity and a DC-DC charger, I'd also recommend a 24- or 48-volt system.
I understand why y'all went with Battle Born, but a Tesla module or similar (5.3kWh or higher) like you have in you full-time rig would've been smaller, lighter and more affordable (for the unsponsored). It would also be a whole lot easier to install as the cabling, fusing and other rest-of-sysyem components are smaller due to the lower current.
I realize you understand all this. I'm just adding it for others less knowledgeable than you.
Y'all be well.
John Coloe thank you for this comment. Where can one find more ‘all in one’ alternatives similar to a Tesla?
@@TheArtofCollege Could you please clarify what you mean by "all in one"? Also, please feel free to reach out to me. My Gmail address is my firstname.lastname.
Higher voltage is a must for bigger systems. Yes this is an expensive system but due to our short timeline the simplicity of the BB batteries really made sense. I totally agree for a rig that is weight constrained a higher energy potential battery would be much nicer.
My plan for our toy hauler is very similar. But, we have a DC to DC charger that also handles the input from the solar panels. It will limit the charge from the truck to 50 amps. We have 1 accessory switch in the dash that is for the relay that energizes the big wires going to the charger. Another switch is wired to raise the idle of the truck, if we ever need to idle charge. The trailer has a 5500 watt gen set built in, so I would probably prefer to use it than idling the truck. Great information. Thank you much.
Tom? Crazy question. Did you consider buying (2) 12v 280AH prismatic batteries? Yes, you 'build' them yourself, but- it's pretty easy. Total weight: 94Lbs., much smaller volume, 12v or 24v ability for smaller, lighter wiring & only a small 24v to 12v converter needed? Instead of $4,500 in batteries, only $1,300.00 including BMS's and an extra 60AH in reserve. Just curious as I consider my Truck Camper electrical system...
One thing I noticed is on you diagram you have the neg and positive cables coming off the first battery. That is wrong. The positive should be off the first and the negative should come off the last. That way you draw power equally off all batteries. Otherwise you will only draw power off the first and not the rest. Also the charge cable from the alternator should be to the last battery and the negative should be to the first. That way if you take ,say , 100 amps out of the batteries you will put 20 amps back into each not just 100 into the first. Ford does not have a very good charging system. Also they run a regulator in their alternator that has issues. It is all computer controlled and has a tendency to burn the brushes fairly quickly. There is also higher powered alts that will charge faster that can be installed made by Nippon Denso. My Ram has a standard 220 amp alt and some options have 2 220 amp units. Ford has the same units available.
DC to DC has to be used with a smart alternator, rather than a battery isolator. It was one of the first things I learned when I looked up the isolators recommended in the manual for our travel trailer. I find it annoying that these giant RV manufacturers don't even know what the technology is, but they're making recommendations to new RVers.
You get rid of all your propane too? how did you power your heater? Hot Water?
We're you able to run the AC when needed?
So.. what laptops & specs? What software(s) for post? How many? You say you started the AC, but it would drain the batts in 5 hours. How much total cost for lithium batts, wiring, shunts, inverters, converters?
Get some small wind turbines mounted on the truck to generate energy while driving & in windy areas
I think it’s more often called a “battery to battery charger” such as is offered by www.sterling-power-usa.com/ (I’m not affiliated) than a DC to DC converter. More often used for boats but well suited in this situation. Modulates the current draw from the alternator based on demand from house battery with internally set charge limits. It is wired between the truck (or boat) engine battery(s) and house battery to specifically charge he house battery when the engine is running. In a way turning the vehicle engine into a generator itself if you have large enough inverter connected to the battery bank.
Informative video, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it!
How would this setup do to run the a/c in the rv in a hott summer day
Great video, Thanks for all the great information. One question that you did not cover was cost. How much would the system that you used for the go north cost to replicate?