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MOOG Sucks
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ส.ค. 2020
- As you can probably tell in this video, I’m pretty mad at MOOG. Normally I wouldn’t call out a company like this, but enough is enough. If it was one part that didn’t work, that would be one thing, but for me, this has been several parts over the years that I’ve had trouble with, all with the name MOOG on the box.
Have you had issues with parts from a particular company? If so, please share those experiences in the comments.
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Stay Dirty
ETCG1
It really sounds like you're in a bad moog.
Brilliant! LoL!
LMFAO, WAIT TILL ERIC SEE'S THIS, GREAT PLAY ON WORDS.
Thats was gold!!
ELP wasn,t the first to use a moog , oh well .
This gave me suicidal thoughts...
just gonna pretend my tie rods and stabilizer links aren't moog
I rebuilt my whole IFS system with moog parts 0_0
If they are fine you're fine. In this particular case they wouldn't have even been able to align the van with the lack of adjustment.
They're fine. I mean it seems that they failed at this particular part, but I've used moog in several vehicles with no issues at all
@@ccox7198 Every time I've tried to use Moog on any of my vehicles, that exact thing happens. I've even gotten new ball joints from them fail with in the first few days, absolute trash parts
But what if they identify as OEM?
ETCG: "Moog sucks!"
Mighty Car Mods: "What did we do?"
I actually though he was going on a rant against him
HI Eric I am the manager of a SE Colorado independent family owned parts store. Honestly I agree with your assessment of your problem you shouldn't have to cut or modify a part that when I look something up it doesn't fit the application. Moog makes some good parts for 95% of vehicles and In my experience in the 5 percent of the parts they produce that are not they have always taken care of the warranty or helping us figure out what is going on. I have had issues with Moog before with a control arm for Honda Acura not fitting the application correctly, I ordered in two more that were both the same. I talked to Moog with the shop installing it and they agreed the part was manufactured to the wrong specifications a few days later we got a redesigned part from Moog and they did a pull that number from our store and credit us for it. Its not your job to quality control a product especially when you're the one putting it on I know how frustrating it can be to have bad parts as someone who has been on both sides of the counter. As a hugefan of your channel (and thank you for all your great videos by the way. you have a very cool Fairimont very inspiring ) I will call moog when their tech line service is open and let them know about the issue you are having because I would hate to see this happen to a regular customer who doesn't have the experience or knowledge that you do I will make sure they get that number pulled from everyones shelvesIf you would like to reach out to Moog themselves i am more than happy to give you the number for their tech line even though you solved the issue yourself. I hope you have a good day Sir and keep up the good videos.
Angry Might Car Mods fans in 3...
This has to be the first time I've seen Eric this pissed...
both for the name and the jdm angry rant!
@@quesomo JDM?
@Kris Nicholson That rings a bell, but I can't remember what it was about...
Was that after a meet or something?
@Kris Nicholson care to share?
He was trying to drill out a broken exhaust stud on some POS Pontiac once and ended up drilling into the water jacket of the engine. He was not a happy bunny. I think there was some tool throwing.
Moog used to be good... back in the 80s and 90s. Nowadays, not so much.
Man..this is true for alot of things. I really hate their sway bar end links . seems like no matter what the whole stud turns inside the LINK...now cut it off
Moog used to be the industry standard. Now, meh..
I put Moog ball joints in the wifes fj cruiser. Were made in usa and fit fine. We will see how long they last. They do have zerks.
Probably made in either two of these countries with no quality control=mehico or china
moog was exceptional when they cost 4 times more than everything else. now they're another hit and miss.
me staring at my entire front end moog kit that just arrived: 😳
Yeah I just bought an upper control arm by them... 🥺😳 Enroute.. I just assumed by the name.. the last control arm only lasted 2 years.. different brand
lol, good luck with those shitty parts. lol
@Michael Schikschneit lololol
I'm sorry bro... But hey, if you have light, 4cyl, you can probably get away with it. And see at least 70k on them.
I can't put that on my bmw 5 series, for example. The weight and power will tear those up.
Meh, I did an entire Moog front end on my Silverado 3 years ago and it's been fine. Aside from the center drag link being a different size!!!! Fortunately the tie rods were able to compensate the shorter link... I think I get better turning radius out of it so it MAY have been intentional, but who knows.
MCM Moog: “Do you think this will fit my honda?”
Eric: Throws UCA across the workshop at him 😂
I work at a autoparts store and moog products are not how they used to he made. Cheap stuff with high ticket prices
Yeah, Moog used to be good
I do the same thing. You are absolutely correct.
I did the same 6 years ago. I noticed things being made in China little by little
@@MrNightpwner man even ac delco out sources their parts to china, korea ,brazil etc.. all of them do its a shame
@@juniorkhan650 bought some AC Delco oil filters for my LS swapped car, first one I cut open was built just like a Fram.
Garbage.
Nothing more infuriating than a direct fitment part that is anything but.
NOTHING
Their suspension bits might suck, but Moog sure makes a badass synthesizer
LMAO
Yama Yamaha, Yama Yamaha, Yama Yamaha, MOOG and a Casio!!! (electro gypsy)
@@ChrisJones-qw7bn Roland Phantom G8
*Ha, ha! You beat me to it. Cheers!*
Loved that the camera shakes every time Eric drops the POS Moog
Completely justified complaint. Had you not made this video there would be even less chance of them ever fixing this problem.
Almost wonder if this is an issue with the application notes not the part. The amount he had to remove seems way to much to me to be a bad QC job. Maybe its for an older, or newer Odyssey? ad they jacked up the application notes, who knows right?
They’re not going to fix the problem.
@@sparkplug1018 I think he cut off more than necessary to allow room for the jam nut to be loosened as well as to allow a little more adjustment. I feel like he has a bit more sense than to fight that hard simply because it was the wrong part. However you may be right. We are prone to brain flatulence.
@@98erics With none of its competitors to compare it to, it may be that simple. I mean he did say he bought that one over the others available because of the grease fittings.
But yeah either way is possible, be interesting to get a follow up if there is one
They will never never fix this problem!
Shoulda done the rant in Chinese. The factory won't understand otherwise.
Don't let this drive you to drink.
The factory is capable of making great parts, when the American company is willing to pay for it.
@@zechsblack5891 ABSOLUTELY it just comes down to corporate greed
Mandarin. Not "Chinese," because the next common dialect is Cantonese- and it's a lot less common
Moog is owned by Federal Mogul these days...
I worked at a parts store and Moog was a nightmare. Some made in China some made in US, you could tell. The Pro parts guy was constantly warranting the parts from garages. I told the DIY guys if they could buy OEM. I would tell them in the long run it was worth the money.
Yeah, but now when I try to buy OEM it still comes from Moog. It fucking sucks. I was double checking wheel bearings to make sure they were actually made in Japan. Out of 4, 1 wasn't. It's so hard to get consistency from anywhere.
Amen to that. I use to know the parts guy at the Toyota dealer. He told me that if they had OEM parts on the shelf the used them but if they didn’t they substituted part store parts. He said they were to ‘check’ with the customer if substitute parts could be used with the same warranty, but didn’t happen all the time. Best faith attempt was acceptable!
Just rebuilt the front end on my ‘08 Element. Your videos came in handy to get ready. Had not seen this one, and bought almost all Moog parts. Fortunately, everything fit. Lower control arms compared exactly to stock ones. Ball joints pressed in fine. Sway bar links came with zerks. The only non-Moog parts were tie rod ends. I got Mevotech ends from Rock Auto because they had zerks and the Moogs did not. Also replaced the rear sway bar links with Moog because the cheap ones I put in 2 years ago were already clunking... Lesson learned.
Durability of the Moog parts remains to be seen, but the job went well and the Element has not ridden this smooth and quiet in a long time. Thanks for your top-notch content!
Moog: "we're going out of business due to lack of sales"
Customer:. "you don't say. See ya!"
Moog is doing very well
Moog isn't going anywhere lool
@@gregpayne3770 except to hell in a handbasket, haha
CaribooSawyer with a few extra dollars
The real reason for crappy parts lies with the consumer more than the company. When everyone buys cheap Chinesism parts because of the price even though they end up replacing those same parts every couple of years rather paying up for quality parts that they replace once and be done with it. Therefore the quality part manufacturers have a choice of going out of business or building cheap parts themselves. Simple supply and demand. When the demand is for cheap parts, that's what businesses will supply!
Dorman is arguably worse than MOOG in my experience
I have a Dorman exhaust manifold that has CRACKED...
Funny story about Moog.
When I first started out working in automotive, I worked at a Honda dealership. This was back in 1987.
One of the Moog engineering centers was in my city and every year, when a new model was released, Moog would call us and order a slew of suspension parts. Control arms, sway bar links, wheel bearings, and hubs, etc. Multiples of each part too, so it was a great sale for us.
I asked the person placing the order why they did this, and it was for this exact reason. To see what changes from year to year, to reverse engineer new parts, and see if they could improve on Honda's designs.
Doesn't sound like they do much of that anymore.
It's so they can send em to China to copy them
Well I can whole heartedly agree on MOOG BEING JUNK. .DONT GET ME STARTED..
MOOG, bought to you by "Dorman Products"
Owned my own shop, i was on my own, every minute counts, i relate to this.
A few years ago Bilstein had to recall thousands of Mercedes replacement control arms. The ball joints were literally falling out after 2 months.
Isn't that on par with any German car nowadays.
Thanks for the video, Eric. I, too, cannot stand Moog parts. I had the ball joints replaced with Moog ball joints on my 2001 Honda CRV by a very reputable mechanic. While my wife was driving on a freeway, one of them decided to split apart without any warning and for no apparent reason whatsoever causing the whole tire and wheel assembly to jam in the back of the wheel well, causing her to nearly lose control, thankfully skidding to a stop on the shoulder. I had the CRV towed back to the mechanic (who, incidentally, I bought originally bought it from). He removed the broken ball joint and sent it in to Moog to see if they could determine why it broke. He replaced it with another Moog ball joint that he thoroughly inspected and thought was okay to use. A few weeks later, while backing out of a driveway with a very slight curb, the 2nd new ball joint broke, this time jamming the tire and wheel assembly into the front of the wheel well, this time damaging the fender. I had the CRV towed back to my mechanic, told him that these Moog ball joints have really been trying hard to kill us, and asked him to take the CRV back as a trade in for a 2001 Jeep Cherokee. We liked the Jeep so much that we bought a second 2001 Cherokee from him and drove both of them until 2018. We then traded them in on a 2009 BMW 328xi. Loved the BMW until a drunk driver ran into it and totaled it. Wished I kept at least one of the Cherokees. Now I’ve purchased a brand new 2021 Toyota RAV4. So far we love it.
It's a race to the bottom with most aftermarket parts nowadays.
Yes, same opinion here
And sometimes OEM parts
I've been switching over to oem as much as possible. I've had moog fail on me a few times.
@@mesanders1113
I play with Volkswagens.
For almost 30yrs now.
Wanna fuck up a VW ?
Use a box store part.
All those places are good for to me is a tube of gasket sealer or a light bulb.
Stick to oem or OEM supplier .
All auto parts are a race to the bottom OEM, after market, some high performance
Hey Moog, I was just convinced to not buy Moog parts.
This guy convinced you? what else have you been convinced of? Looking to buy property? I've got some prime property in the Everglades..
Meh... I've used Moog plenty of times and never noticed an issue or abnormally quick failure. A couple of their problem solver parts actually did what they were intended and fixed a bad design from the manufacturer. Like the bushings of the front control arms on Saturn Ion that wear out in no time. I was so happy when that car got smoked by a truck and written off. (It was parked and gf wasn't in it at the time thankfully)
@@rxtuninginc8444 LOL, it is Saturn standard, yes you are fine. all joints in Toyota cars last almost forever because it is cushioned by polymer or nylons that have very low wear to the ball and smooth. Anything with metals-metals contact, ball joints always wear out. Buy only the sealed Genuine from Toyota or Honda. It is made by polymer housing, not metals that will grind each other.
Yup...
@@rondhole on hondas and Toyotas (esp 3rd gen 4runners) i've learned to stick with oem
Eric, I'm a mechanic also and totally agree with you ( parts suck these days ) It's a struggle to get anything to go right the first time now day's. Why wouldn't a manufacturer want the customer to have the best chance at success with their products. It boggles my mind. Rob......
Moog is now a Tenneco brand now. I used to work for them and hated the shameful quality of what we were 'making' out of Chinese, Indian, and other Southeast Asian countries.
The only thing that matter was getting it out the door. I assembled quickstruts that were leaking oil, rusted, striped treads, and cracked paint on the springs.
Anytime quality or safety was brought up they'd send someone to say ''ehh, it's fine, dim the right part #'s" and let you knowthey can hire three or four temps for what a full-time employee makes.
I actively avoid "American" brands after working in the automotive aftermarket industry for 10 years.
It's easier to get better made Chinese products where they didn't cut every corner on quality to pay for usa labor at the same price.
What are the better made chinese products, if you don't mind me asking? I have no idea what aftermarket brands to trust
Moog has gone down hill in the last 10 years.
I have lost faith in Timken too. I now buy only Japanese bearings
Moog used to be good. Did they change ownership?
Timken is Japanese, just like Felpro.
I’ll keep buying Denso, Aisin, NGK/NTK, etc.....at least until they stop making good parts.
@@romeo_alpha0176 like a lot of companies or divisions they have been passed around like a whore. Icahn bought them, no debt cut quality to make a profit and then sold them to Tenneco which then split up somehow. So, yes they now suck. Once a company leaves the hands of the founder it is all cost cutting and downhill quality in the name of profits. Stick to the Japanese, they have pride and not corporate profit sharing (at least within the executives)
timken bearings are all made in China now not USA!
@@romeo_alpha0176 Timken is not Japanese all their bearings are made in china now
"Wherever you had it made?" My top guess is China......second top guess is China....third top guess is China....
Chi na!!!!!
ratagris21 ✋🏼 🤚🏼
@@ratagris21 Yes, Chi.....nnnaaaaa.....communist China virus doing the world in...
@@trankt54155 almost the many fine things from there.....Chi na like Tump says go ask Chi na!
We call cheap parts Chinesium for a reason.
I know this video was made some time ago but SO GLAD I found it before I dropped a bunch of money on new Moog suspension parts for my 99 Chevy Tahoe. Thank you Sir!
As a fellow technician, I feel your pain brother.
Having now put Moog parts on a couple Subarus, this has been my takeaway: Whatever common database that every single auto parts store or website uses for parts all has the same exact errors. I.e. Every store from AutoZone to RockAuto to PartsGeek, they all think that a particular part number of CV Axle or control arm will fit my '06 Turbo Baja but I know for a fact that they won't. I know this because I've gotten the parts and compared them to the O.E. and noted the differences. Sometimes you can fudge it, sometimes it's totally incompatible. That includes Moog suspension parts. I'm not sure if the blame falls on the aftermarket manufacturer who incorrectly listed part X and compatible with vehicles A/B/C without actually test-fitting. The dumb thing is that if you go to the manufacturer parts lists, you can pretty clearly tell that if two vehicles don't use the same O.E. part number the same aftermarket part probably won't fit both applications. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's some global EDI database for auto parts that has faulty fitment info in it for some vehicles. (That's how other industries such as computer-related equipment work. Every single reseller uses the same database.)
Here in Australia we have an autoparts store called Autobarn. Their part database is managed by their suppliers. I was looking for a head gasket for a Mitsubishi 4g15 1.5L. Autobarn has 4 different listings. They are all exactly the same. Very confusing.
Oh and their zerk fittings never thread into the parts without cross threading...
Could it be the nut behind the wrench?
@@notsevenfeettall I have used plenty of moog parts never had a problem with cross threading or breaking fittings off? Maybe less beer?
Just had this issue!
They're often not threaded, period. I've gotten 2 sets of end links and it's just a straight hole in the the end by the balljoint - the zerk is basically self-tapping.
Never had an issue with mine??
Gotta say, I must be the luckiest son of a gun cause I've yet to have any issues with Moog.
Depends on your car. If you only do regular driving and drive a light vehicle, both those factors reduce the stress on those.
If you tow, drive off roads, have a heavy car, and or a powerful one. They just won't last long.
@@emilyhofland8219 essentially they're as good as OE, which is the entire point.
Yeah they are good parts. He's just being a pissy pants.
"Moog Problem Starters"
Haha nice
I say that every time I see those box.
🤣
I thought you were gonna complain about synthesizers in music.
Ha! Good stuff.
Eric the music guy?
emerson lake and palmer liked moog
@@eddiemitchum8006 I don't think Ricky Lake liked them 😂
Nice MCM reference! Well played.
It's not a rant if it's a true statement. Moog is complete trash and never will buy another Moog part. My time (and yours) is valuable and should be treated as such.
What brand would you recommend at this time.
@@mastershake156 most of my patrons supply their own parts, but I urge them to stay away from Moog (even prior to this video). However, it is their money and their vehicle so you must approach the situation at their easement. I personally use another higher tier brand in lieu of Moog. Depending on availability and time constraints....but I'll wait longer for another brand before I EVER buy a Moog part for my own project.
@Eric, do you have a specific brand that is a "go to?"
OE when it's available.
You have a very emotional and illogical idea of what "complete trash" is. Yes Moog has many quality control problems, but there are plenty of trashier parts out there. Also, your time is not valuable if you are sitting around watching rant (rather than purpose specific repair) type youtube videos.
That does not at all mean you should buy Moog. It means acknowledge it for what it is and that sometimes OEM parts make sense but most often not.
Personally, even if I had to cut the part down that Eric did, I'd rather do that and have it greaseable than a fixed link with the wrong alignment. The question with Moog has been does the dust boot last or fail early so you're back in dealing with that again. I really wish they'd stick to standard boots and supply them separately, make ordering them to match the part a straightforward process, even if I had to pay a couple bucks vs warranty replacing the entire thing.
Spent good money on a couple Moog wheel bearings for my 05 Dakota. One started making noise and had play within 3 months. Warranty invalid because my tires have an inch of offset. Total BS. Swapped for Mevotech bearings, been quiet and smooth for the last 2 years.
Long ago, Moog was a quality brand. I’m willing to bet that the Moog leadership discovered that they could make huge profits selling garbage Chinese parts with their Moog name on the box. Now the word is out and Moog can R.I.P.
Eric boy have you come a long way. I use to watch your videos all the time when I actually had a garage back in 2010ish. Stopped working on cars for a while. I had no idea how much your channel grew. Congrats bud you definitely deserve it.
When I started in this field 20 years ago, moog was top quality. Now I see moog parts fail after 1 to 2 years... junk.
What is recommended now?
For real ^
@@joehardy8455 oem
That's because in the early days they made parts in Japan, now they're made in China.
Back when I took auto shop in high school, “late 70’s”, MOOG was a premier US manufacture of front-end components. With NAFTA production went to china and quality went out the window.
NAFTA is North America Free Trade Agreement. It is only For Canada, U.S., and Mexico.
What you are complaining about is out sourcing which most companies do. Hell many American Product are only assembled here with parts from China, though that is changing now.
What has NAFTA got to do with outsourcing to China?
@@logandeathrage6945 No your just paying terrifs/taxes (higher prices) so the large corporations can get a huge tax cut. Since trumps businesses are high end the large corporations will have more money to spend at his golf coarse and hotels.
trump wants to open everything up literally over 1000's of dead bodys because the slow down is costing him money.
his estimated net worth is 3 billion (That's not cash that's what he owns or has any control over.)
After 4 months of pandemic its 2 billion.
He has filed for extensions from the German bank he owes big( The only bank in the world that will deal with him)
He needs to stay in office because when he leaves his protections from prosecution of criminal acts will end.
the wolves are waiting mr trump
@@tomhutchins1046 What a bunch of nonsense, get a grip dude
@@richardclark4383 Hey troll your mommys calling
Accel , replaced all 8 of my coil packs. 6 months later the truck developed hesitation under load. Replaced the plugs, injectors, cleaned the MAF and throttle body, and was about to replace my catalytic converters before I gave in and took it to the shop. Lo and behold a nearly new coil pack had failed. Not happy
I agree 100% with ETCG that QC is crucial before products go in the customers hands. I worked in R&D for a company that designed machines and parts and we had problems with parts coming from the manufacturer (based in China). Our SOP is to open and inspect 10 random boxes from a batch to measure and compare to our engineer's specs. If 6 out of 10 parts fail to meet nominal tolerances we would declare the whole batch useless, record proof, and send it back to the manufacturer. That's what the QC engineers should have done at moog.
We also learned that the manufacturer in China was converting our imperial specs to metric which just created a cluster f**k of problems so we sent them instruments that measure in inches rather than metric.
Bottom line, never skip QC. Don't hope that the manufacturer always do a perfect job. Do your job right and your customers will be happy and always return.
- I want an equal amount of blueberries in each muffin.
- You know how long that is going to take?
Yeah, "QC" regularly sucks on aftermarket autoparts.
100% true. Dorman has breen dropping the ball alot recently also
Casino is one of my all time favorite movies. 👍👍 for the quote.
@@juniorkhan650 What do you mean recently? Dorman was never more than barely adequate, their saving grace being offering unique niche parts that nobody else did, but when they do have a 3rd party competitor, they tend to cost more than that equal or better quality competitor.
Best quality control reference. Ever.
Junior Khan Dorman is total crap.
I used to like moog back when they made their own products, but as time went on they started selling re-boxed parts, and we as the buyers are left paying for moogs name and none of their product features/quality, like the gusher bearing, if it does not say made in USA it vary likely is not a real moog part.
They never made there own products they spec it to manufacture just like the OEM's do
As a former technician ( destroyed my wrists over the years, can't do it professionally anymore) I refuse to even consider anything made by Moog. Their crap has cost me way too many headaches over the years. I have been really happy with Mevotec Terrain tough line. They are very good quality and have always worked perfectly right put of the box EVERYTIME.
Thank you for suggesting a different brand. Everyone here saying moog sucks but give no alternative. I just installed made in USA moog ball joints and just got the drag links and ends in today for my obs ford. I’m a diyer so hopefully I don’t have issues with my truck.
GOD FINALLY. I have hated Moog for so freaking long!! I have NEVER had a Moog part NOT fail on me within a few months of installation, and NOBODY understood what I was bitching about, thank you ETCG1
Best aftermarket (oem suppliers) companies for Hondas imo:
Aisin
Denso
Sankei 555 (ball joints)
KYB (struts)
NGK
Timken
sankei ball joints are the only real option imo
Hard to find Timken now. I bought some bearing from Amazon and one was marked "China" even though the box says made in Japan. I requested a new part and then I got a "Japan" stamped one. Looks like a reboxed scam from whoever fulfills Amazons orders. I returned them and bought Koyo bearings from Napa Auto Parts and they were made in Japan. Apparently Koyo owns Timken now so if you can't find Timken just get Koyo which are made in Japan. At least they are supposed to be so check the stamp on the bearing itself.
Also agree Denso is good for sensors like oxygen sensors, NGK makes greak spark plugs an Aisin is good as well.
every company listed there is also an OE supplier.
@@CouchMan88 koyo owns timken because the USA made timkens had real quality control issues so timken went under and the name was purchased. Moved overseas were the labor force is much better
Herth and buss
You aren’t yelling at us...you’re yelling to us. I’d be pissed too. I’ve had the same issues with Moog in the past, and now they are a LAST resort part.
Hey ETCG.... I learned the hard way about 10 years that MOOG sucks. Here is the story....
So I had a 1997 GMC Savana G3500 1 ton 6.5L diesel work van, which I loved. I had bought that van in the fall of 2006 with 168,000 miles on it, and it had 512,000 when I got rid of it. The biggest issue I had with it is because of the suspension design in the front, it tended to go through lower ball joints. For the 2nd lower ball joint replacement, my regular mechanic at the time, used a some MOOG replacements. They failed in 7 months , still under warranty, from the time they were installed. I drove a lot for my work, but one of these failed so bad that it split into 4 pieces.
My mechanic contacted MOOG about the warranty claim. their response was that "well, if it was manufactured correctly, it would not have failed" and they denied the warranty claim.
So my mechanic vowed right there never to use them again.
Hey MOOG, if a part fails that bad it is because YOU DID NOT MANUFACTURE IT CORRECTLY.
Most people do not know that a lot of these parts are no longer manufacturer in the US. Those manufactured outside the US have questionable quality and reliability.... as they are manufactured in Mexico, Turkey, China...and other countries....some that are not the friendliest to us.
You best bet is to try and specifically get parts manufactured in the US when possible.
Most recently, I was delivering heavy truck parts for a major retailer. Some of the shops I delivered to would not even take a part that was manufactured outside the US.
So I hear you ETCG....even after a decade it seems that MOOG is still the same, if not gotten worse than my experience with them.
Tim
Installed their ball joints in a T&C ordered from Amazon. Day two, strange sound. Upon inspection, loose ball joint in the socket. I had no choice except to weld them in, carefully cooling with water between welds because I needed to travel the next day. Wow. Thankfully I have a descent welder.
I'm old enough to remember when Moog were the go-to for parts and Bendix were the go-to for brake pads. Sucks getting old. Lol Glad you got it figured out though!
I found this on their website 3 hours ago.. im still laughing: "MOOG is a trusted Steering & Suspension parts brand, and is also recognised internationally for its high-quality chassis parts.
We go the extra mile to make life easier for installers and their customers. In fact, guaranteeing outstanding service to our installers is our top priority. Our commitment to our promise is total: at MOOG we go the extra mile for you, every day."
Well, I'm glad then we don't get them in Australia 😁
They need to update that. It's about 20 years old, i think. Back when even parts stores recommended them.
Now it reads more like "At MOOG we dont give a flying FFFF and our parts are still lifetime warantee but fail within a year"
Typical corporate jargon, just empty words to try to distract us from their questionable quality 👎🏼
That was their moto from way back. Back when everything they made, they made themselves. Now you never know with the Chinese market. Some good, many bad. It's a COST driven economy. Quality is no longer the business model default. Profit is.
They carefully word their claims: “OE style”. I noticed they don’t say “OE specifications “. Style means it looks authentic but not manufactured to any real standards.
Adjustable upper control arms. Adjustable.... with a band saw!
Unscrew, Split that Ball joint into 3 pieces!!! Take an 8th of an inch off of both threaded shafts Put it back together and put it on your car... Bizarre? As much time as it takes make the video, you could have customised that Finally made moog ball joint to fit your car perfectly.. And you get your zurich fittings. In my eyes a big plus... Wowow are you one of those guys that throw tools across the garage?? This is coming from a electrician.. I am not a car mechanic by no means...
@@republicansthatdidntvotefo1605 Wrong again
@@republicansthatdidntvotefo1605 It's hard to come up with a fix when your frustrated and here's proof. Of course trimming would work and still meet all requirements for adjustability. He could have done a video on how to do it instead of what we watched,right?
I am a seasoned, mature do-it-yourself mechanic. I've seen it all and done it all. I used to buy nothing but a Moog. They really went to hell. No more. I've changed my last Moog hub bearing
You arent yelling at me, you're venting. We're cool. Wanna beer?
Eric, you honestly have to see the comments left on Moog’s social pages. Almost EVERYONE has been telling them their QC is horrible for YEARS and they have yet to change. Funny how with all the dissatisfaction with their products they still seem to have enough money to be “tHe OfFiCiAl PaRtS sUpPlIeR oF nApCaR”…
Also, I used to call my cat Moog and yeah, it was before I knew the parts company had horrendous QC.
Tai Maishu-Nao Nascar make you feel like napping too?
*Agreed. Am certain whatever parts if any, Moog supplies to NasCrap have been carefully made, inspected and Magnafluxed to beat hell. I say "If any" because Moog buys the right to put the NasCrap symbol on their adverts. That does not necessarily mean Moog parts are actually used by them. Cheers!*
Well done vid. Used to work for SEARS auto centers 1973-1993. Did mostly alignment and suspension work . Back then MOOG was the part to use made in USA. Now I see China, Mexico, India god only knows. I know that feeling when stuff doesn't go back together.
You're absolutely right the lack of quality control , inferior design . Everything about Moog makes it a perfect paper weight.
Really wish I had known that six months ago. OEM swaybar endlinks have been discontinued for my MR2T and I thought I’d try the Moog. They’re already shit and need to be replaced.
Unfortunately quality has taken a backseat to profit margins. Everyone has to compete with cheap Chinese made parts, many buyers are only concerned about price and this is a by-product of our current disposable culture. Good rant!
although in this case the part would be sliiiightly more profitable if it was built to the specs it was supposed to be since it requires half an inch less material :P
It also doesn't help that automotive parts stores are pretty anti-competitive when it comes to giving consumers the selection of part manufacturers. I used to work in parts for a number of years and it's almost laughable on the partnerships done between manufacturers and stores to screw the consumer. A lot of autozone/duralast line of products for example are just a cheaper or equivalent variation of a name brand part. A lot of times when you're choosing between a cheaper moog suspension part packaged as duralast or a moog branded suspension part and that's it....so your choices are really a shit moog part or a less shit moog part. This is unlike places like rockauto where you have like sometimes a dozen different manufacturers and the company isn't trying to market a store brand being paid by these aftermarket manufacturers.
Your rant was mild but I agree with you. My ROYAL RANT is with Dorman parts they make Moog look like OEM direct fit. Dorman must pay kids 10 cents per product and charge us mechanics out the azz for garbage that not only breaks after you put it on but wears out 2 weeks later.. Who gets yelled at? Me the mechanic so Eric love your rant you and Eric O from South Main Auto need to get together and do rants about the garbage parts they forcing us mechanics to install.
Dorman parts are usually the lowest price, why are u using them. I am a bit cheap and drive old junk and use Dorman all the time, I have never had any problem at all.
I have personally directed people away from Dorman back to the OEM. Yes it's more, but at least it fits
@@coache1nine Thank you I do the same thing but some times customers think they know more than I do. Lol
@@FortWorthMobileMechanic , they all do, until it's FUBAR, lol
Dorman + Moog = SUCK.. Save your time and get OEM. Fix it once, fix it rgt!!!! 👍
Moog says this part is for a vehicle that has been lowered or lifted or is significantly out of spec. You don’t need this adjustable one if you fix the vehicle right. The camber is out of spec because of worn components. If you replace the sagging springs instead of the arms the problem is fixed. You may also have worn bushings. I use moog all the time and I have had zero fitment issues.
By the way lots of people lower these Oddysseys. If you cut the springs you need a longer upper arm. This is probably the application this is intended for.
First of all that ball joint was not going anywhere period.After market parts are getting worse and they are not getting any better. These company's don't care it's all about the all mighty dollar.Keep those videos coming your doing a GREAT job Eric,keep up GREAT work.
I know how that feels, imagine waiting a whole week for parts to arrive and to find out that it doesn't fit. yea.. i wasn't happy either
A moment of silence for all DIY people who’ve had this happen to them (myself included)
Total *BRUH* moment...
SuzuMR2 75 yup you said it, friggin sucks lol
Been there, it's a thorough pain in the ass.
Yeah. Noticed with Amazon "prime" that bullshit orders arrive lightning fast. Critical items never qualify and can take as long as old fashioned catalogue orders. Screw amazon prime.
It’s so ironic that a Moog commercial played half way through the video.
Funny, some people swear by Moog and some people swear AT them.
It is interesting to hear Eric's tone change when he is annoyed about something.
I'm surprised to hear about Moog being bad. With the 3 vehicles I've used their parts on I always had good experiences. On my 01 Dodge ram 1500 they had beefier (& greasable ) ball joints on their tie rods than some of the competitors. I'll keep my eyes peeled next time my vehicles need parts.
20+ years ago when I wrenched full time, Moog was the go-to brand. They built good stuff and stood behind it when you had issues. No longer. In 2013 I swore off Moog after buying a pair of control arms for my wife's GM minivan - the ball joints bolts were installed upside down that damaged both my spindles. Federal Mogul (they bought the Moog name years ago) refused to do anything, saying they didn't build that "RK" line themselves and since I bought it from Amazon "they could have bought it from anyone" they wouldn't do anything. Amazon did eventually help me out but Federal Mogul is a friggin dumpster fire that hasnt gotten better with time. Suspension parts I buy OEM whenever possible anymore.
Literally have had the same issues with moog, glad I’m not the only one who has to deal with this crap.
My only thought was according to Eric, the reason the camber was off leading him to want to put adjustable upper control arms in was "as the car gets older, the springs start sagging causing the camber problem", so why not install news springs to bring the car's ride height back to stock. Yes, I understand that it was probably an expense thing as 1 adjustable upper control arm was probably cheaper than a pair of springs but considering the headache it caused, I believe he would been better served by replacing the springs. Yes, I also know it's easy for me to armchair quarterback but it is another option vs an adjustable upper control arm. I will agree with Eric that the quality of products including Moog has went really downhill over the last 4 decades. When everyone prefers cheaper Chinesism products than pay up for quality products, businesses need to make changes to keep in business. Personally I blame the consumer that would rather buy a cheap product that they have to replace every other year than paying up for a quality product that they buy once and are done with it.
&& that’s the issue w mechanics. Yes we try to keep spending to a minimum but AS NEW YOUTH i understand
WHAT we pocket in savings we waste in work .. what we EMPTY our pockets Saves our back
i havent had Detroit Axle screw anything up like that, have used them for repairing a few vehicles
RAGE!!!! I love it lol. We don't get this very often
I don't know, I got some Moog tie rods for my Subaru and they fit perfectly. But I believe your experience. And understand your frustrations. To your point though, they see the only ones in stock when I was high and dry.
do you like Marty?
🤣🤣🤣
HAHAHA
Lol
I actually thought was was going to pay out on MCM’s Moog!😂
MOOG sells $2.5B of parts each year with over 10k employees. I'm glad they are around, often providing the best part for the buck. They aren't perfect, this is true, but they spend millions on engineering parts that not only replace OEM but in your case provide additional features (like adjustability). Here is the kick. Honda had two different length upper control arms for those years. The Touring suspension was indeed shorter and provided for a shorter radius on the outer wheel during a turn to compensate for the wheel / tire combination of the same year RK100153. You may NOT have had the Touring suspension option, yet still have been equipped with the shorter control arm. That is on Honda. Not a MOOG fan boy, just compassionate on how hard it must be with manufacturers that have a menu of parts on similar years, models and options. German cars anyone? Thanks as always for the videos Eric!
They are counterfeited like crazy these might be fake.
Is that brand for Acura tl hub bearing assembly any good ?
In the 1970's- 80's I was a Moog "Stocking Dealer". They made(in the USA) a great product, then! Never had a bad one, in 9 years. NOW, LOTS of good brands have turned to $HIT!
Damn. I remember when MOOG was the go-to for domestic suspension components. Of course, that was 20+ years ago.
Same here. When I redid the suspension on my '71 'vette MOOG was the brand to get. It's been 15 years and all the MOOG stuff is still good on the car. Hope it doesn't go bad if MOOG is garbage now.
Im in the same boat here, I did balljoints and tie rod ends on my 2000 ranger back in 2013 and the parts were good, but i guess now theyve just gone downhill.
Federal Mogul completely whored out the Moog name. Called their warranty hotline in 2013 after some misassembled control arms destroyed the spindles on my wife's van. Night and day difference from the old days. I was the one blamed for buying their cheaper line that they dont make themselves - straight up refused to help. They wouldn't even warranty the part.
@@markusstrobl1067 *15 years ago Moog was still making good bits. Your Vette will be fine.*
Amen, preach it, I had moog rear links fail (broke in two) after just 6 months. Never buying moog again.
You fixed it , no worries , good job and I agree with your thoughts about it fitting correctly in the first place .
Those MOOG arms work exactly as advertised. they were fully adjustable. Cut to fit.
Their quality has been slipping for years, even when ordering from them its a 50/50. Sometimes you get a good (real) Moog sometimes you get a thingamajig.
I started noticing this with Moog about 3-4 years ago. And now I go with the “cheaper” part Carquest.
Note the carquest oil filter part number and compare to napa and wix. Yup , carquest filters are wix.
Most folks know napa is a wix filter , but that little number game carries thru to everyone who puts their name on a wix.
Oh btw, those stp filters at AutoZone are fram,they play that number game too.
@@MrTheHillfolk Yup. Any big box auto parts store part is a rebadge. Frams are hit or miss. The low end ones are garbage that aren't worth the packaging they're put in. But the synthetic ones are actually pretty good.
@@SkylineFTW97
Haha yup ,the low price ones are junk.
Plenty of videos on here to show the complete cardboard innards of one.
The weight between the good frams and the cheap ones is quite noticable.
Same here. I'm not a professional mechanic but I am a retired machinist that does a lot of hobby work on cars & trucks. Things that I have had fail or not fit: 98 Ram pickup ball joint boots completely failed in about 1 year. Dodge van 1 ton, idler arm didn't fit into the frame, had to bend frame attach point to install. Tapers on ball joints & tie rod ends are not machined, they look to be as forged with absolutely no machining marks. It's a pitiful situation for a company that once was the standard of the industry.
I put MOOG front end parts, complete, on my 93 Ford F-250 about 25 years ago. They fit perfectly and still are on my truck.
You got mooged!
Moog: we're about making -quality- quantity made parts to suit your needs
MOOG: We're reboxing quantity parts to supply your demand and fill our coffers
I feel your pain Eric, Me BACK at parts counter. You had one job damn it! Engels made a camber kit back in day
...you mean to fill our pockets!
Moog has some manufacturing in my area. They are known as a cheap employer, so it is no wonder that they make cheap products. I believe TRW and Bilstein are the best when it comes to suspension parts.
I work at a parts store, thanks for this video, I will now recommend my customers not to buy moog
I learned my Moog lesson a long time ago. Never buy Moog if you can help it.
I'm a driveway do it my selfer, that would have been terrible for me. I haven't had the need to buy Moog type products in a long time. Thanks for the warning.
Definitely not what they used to be. The rubber they use for the boots on tie rods and ball joints suck. Had a ful suspension rebuild with Moog parts. Two years later, torn boots and one bad ball joint. Used the cheapest parts store brand to fix it since it lasts just as long. I also hate anchor motor mounts. Last set look like a beaver chewed on them. Drilled holes didn't align. Found 25 year old NOS on eBay instead.
I'll never buy Anchor again. They use bubble gum and pencil erasers for their rubber. I had a 70k mile factory motor mount that had better rubber on it than the a brand new soft rubber Anchor part. I installed it anyway to test it out and the engine basically just flopped around. I just did a full front end rebuild using MOOG components and the control arm bushings are softer than I care for them to be. It's a fucking shame, I thought MOOG was one of the only quality after market brands out there. Oh also, I ordered two of their premium tie rod ends, both of them were supposed to be the beefy version with zerk fitting, well one of them was a sub-par tie rod ends with no zerk... Too late, it's already on the car. Guess I'll order another at some point.
This is a shame, because MOOG used to be top notch years ago. I worked in parts for years, and I started not recommending MOOG to my customers. I would outsource to TRW in certain instances, or call the dealer. We even had better luck from our 1 year warranty, house brand chassis and steering components. It’s truly sad
Late to the party. Retired now. Our company was bought by Cooper Industries and folded over into the automotive group, where Moog was a sister "company." I ran some vehicle tests for them as we were active with test vehicles for our brake development. I got to know the man in charge of their R&D lab. Then, Federal-Mogul bought all of us just before they went bankrupt because they also bought Ferodo, which had a massive liability for asbestos. After that, Carl Ichan purchased the company with plans to make it profitable before selling all the parts.
As with most raiders, one of the ways to make the companies more profitable is by getting rid of R&D. They went through every division, which made them decide to close the two testing facilities I was in charge of in 2008 - after all, who needs to test brake materials on vehicles (actually, at that time, our aftermarket division was the only one doing actual vehicle brake testing as the company had to do it for OE). At that time, George, the Moog Director, and his crew were very proud they could maintain the quality of Moog products when most of the aftermarket suspension companies went to the cheaper, polymer-lined ball joints and tie-rod ends. Then, probably six months after that, Moog got chopped, too. Both of our companies saw our production plants get moved to Mexico, China, and other Asian-based counties.
I got a set of ball joints for my SuperDuty from George in 2008. They are still going well.
However, the road to cheaper parts is not only the fault of the companies' profit margins. By 2008, I had been 30 years in the OE/aftermarket auto industry. With the rise of discount auto parts stores (Advance, AutoZone, etc.), there was a tremendous push to lower the cost of products to garner a more extensive customer base. Advance wanted a lower price than the AutoZone across the street. Then it was AutoZone. Everyone, including the consumer, wanted cheaper parts; the added national parts chains accelerated that, and everyone wanted a little edge. Unfortunately, we suffer from all of that today.
There was a time when Moog was king. Prices have rised, other companies have filled the void.
What companies? i always use moog stuff...
I completely agree Eric. I've experienced crappy parts on all my cars. They obviously don't check their products. Its symptomatic of businesses that are full of middlemen that produce parts for lowest cost with no quality control. They then staff the phones with idiots who know nothing about cars or how the parts are used
Don't hold back dude, tell us how you really feel.
I know the feeling Eric. I never use moog even if it's the only option available at the time. I've put in ball joints and tie rods and only a few lasted longer than a year. I had to replace a lower ball joint and for the moment all I could get was a moog one that was in stock. Hadn't even been a year and was driving one day and luckily I was on a 25 mph road and the lower ball joint broke completely apart. Had I been going any faster like on a highway than I for sure could have been in a bad wreck and either killed myself, or the other driver and passengers or all of us. After that I vowed to never ever buy parts made by moog.
So what brand do you suggest?
@@norbertgarcia507buy 555 or from the OEM don’t play around with mevotech or moog it’s all junk
Initially I thought you were mad at MCM Moog hahaha. Then watched the video and thought: hey, maybe chopping a little of the part will do the trick.
Maybe you can make a necklace or rings or something out of those chopped parts. That will be a cool story for the grandkids.
BREAKING:
Ohio TH-cam personality Eric The Car Guy was arrested today,
after driving his minivan into the car parts store. No one was injured.
ETCG is being held, without bail, and currently on suicide watch.
He could always claim the Moog defense stating that the steering components which were produced by Moog failed and caused the accident
LOLOLOLOL 🤣
i am glad to see you put on your big boy mechanic pants and rocked it. nice work eric :)
I rebuilt my truck's entire front end after taking inspiration from your video rebuilding your father's old truck. I used all Moog, and the center drag link was a different shape! I counted threads on the tie rods and still ended up with the wheels "cross eyed!" Had to eyeball it and drive down the street to my mechanic (who is fortunately very close by)... had to mount the curb to even make that turn into the lot. When he was done he was like "what did you do to that truck!?!" He was ready to charge me double for the alignment but after I explained the situation he dropped it back down to only 1.5 the normal cost :) That's Moog for you!