When Michael Jordan Was A POINT GOD
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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A breakdown a Michael Jordan's short stint as the Point Guard of the Chicago Bulls, and just how impressive it was...
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#NBA #MichaelJordan #chicagobulls
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How would Jordan's career have changed IF he had stayed at Point Guard??
CORRECTION: It looks like I did the math incorrectly about Jordan's adjusted numbers. Here's a comment from Mike Evans with the correction...
"My man Jonny you did the math wrong,
His scoring decreased by 9% that's correct, but his rebounding increased by 21% and his assists increased by 55%, which makes his adjusted stats even more impressive. In this case MJ per his career would average 27.4 PPG 7.5 RPG and 8.2 APG, and if we use only his Bulls years, then it's even crazier, 28.6 PPG, 7.6 RPG and 8.4 APG"
Jesus Christ brother, get that bag but can you at least add a chapter for your ad so it's easier for me to skip 15 percent of your video?
@@bigredracecar27 let him get the bag u lazy boy
Gettin his bag😂😂😂
@@bigredracecar27 just skip raid. In all videos it will be 90s
I Been That Game For 2 1/2 Years Now
Im Burned Out Lol But The Game Is Very Fun Mobile Game
My man Jonny you did the math wrong,
His scoring decreased by 9% that's correct, but his rebounding increased by 21% and his assists increased by 55%, which makes his adjusted stats even more impressive. In this case MJ per his career would average 27.4 PPG 7.5 RPG and 8.2 APG, and if we use only his Bulls years, then it's even crazier, 28.6 PPG, 7.6 RPG and 8.4 APG
I'll put this in the pinned comment! Thanks for looking out.
So Michael Air Jordan Could Have Played Lebron James's Style Of Play On Offense If Doug Was Never Fired. Dope
@@tonysanders1299 Michael Jordan would have put up Westbrook MVP numbers for his career.
@@nathans.6723 yep, would've had 10 straight years of triple doubles.
@@_M.... he wouldn’t have as many scoring titles but his rebs and assists would be up. probably wouldn’t have won as many titles too but he did what he had to to win
This kinda has an "I could, if I wanted to" vibe, just like the shrug game.
Accurate 🎯
I mean it’s a fact cause he showed it when u wanted proof 😂❤
Michael Jordan's entire career was literally "I could, if I wanted to"
I think Jordan was always cable of dropping 10+ assists before he moved to PG. He was just such a natural scorer that he chose not too. Jordan doing Jordan things.
Or ball hog
@@Thomasraymun
Ball hog doesn’t exist
Yeah he just chose not to have better stats lmao
@@Thomasraymun
Who is he supposed to pass the ball to? Some bum that doesn’t deserve it?
@@TextingNation
He is already the greatest player statistically
I've always hated when the "MJ wasn't a good passer" narrative is tried to be pushed by some desperate moron. Before Scottie lost his mind, he always spoke about how him being the primary playmaker took that role away from Jordan so it allowed him to focus on scoring, still play stellar defense and closing out games. It was never about him not being able to do it, but rather not being required to do it because he already had so much on his plate.
scottie is going broke and desperate to stay relevant , but the lil kids on the who weren't even born when thos two played are just delusional
It is because he is a worse passer than lebron so when the goat talk comes around people love to exatrate
@@danielv6317 he's not a worse passer, Mike was actually a fantastic passer
@@Zayk74u He was a fantastic passer but lebron has better court vision and basketball iq (not saying Mike's are bad) so naturally he will be a better passer
@@danielv6317 I'd honestly say that they're prolly about the same. The only real reason we think Lebron's is better is because he's basically been a point forward since 06
I was watching a regular season Bulls vs Hawks game from 1989. The Bulls lost, but Jordan had a 40 point triple double and Pippen and Cartwright didn’t play. He looked so fluid as the point guard that it really made you think as if it was his natural position.
I think he was still better as SG. He wasn’t the best passer but he was the greatest scorer so taking away from his scoring might have hurt.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson imho, Wilt was the greatest scorer, man averaged 39 ppg for hist first 7 seasons while apparently having over 60% of his shots be fadeaways (there is a clip of an announcer saying this so it might no be 100% accurate but i dont see why the dude would lie). Now imagine if he was allowed to use his body like shaq, pair that with his highly underrated shooting (while he was bad at fts, his shots from mid range were good as mentioned above) and i think he was the greatest scorer
@@a3per818 wilt a averaged so much because the pace of the game in his first few years was much higher than pace during Jordan era and wilt played far more minutes per game. Adjusted for pace and minutes scored, Jordan’s 37.1ppg season was higher than Wilts 50.1ppg
@@a3per818 Wilts team pace was 36.7% faster than Jordan’s team pace. Adjust Jordan’s points to wilts team pace and the stats are:
Wilt: 50.4pts 48.5 minutes
Jordan: 50.7pts 40.0 minutes
Adjust to minutes played:
Jordan: 61.5pts 48.5 minutes
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson If you want to talk about the pace at the time then also talk about the efficiency at the time. The rules favoured defences a lot more leading to an overall less efficient offense in the 60s and 70s and Wilt was still a lot more efficient than his contemporaries with godly volume scoring. Wilt also couldn't bump into defenders, let alone bully them. He had the greatest physique in the game. Imagine if he played in the 80s or 90s with him being so good at fadeaways and being able to man handle defenders..
Michael Jordan is just the most talented person that will ever live with a basketball in their hands, period. If he was asked to play the point he would’ve been the best point of all time, and if the game required him to take more three’s he’d be absolutely okay dominating that field aswell. The guy is just a winner. 🐐
'91 NBA Finals he returned to that position and was dueling with Magic Johnson. Contrary to popular belief, he is the one who was primarily guarding Magic and only shifted when he was in foul trouble. I think he averaged 31/8/11 that series.
No the popular belief is right Scottie was the primary defender for magic after the first 2 games
@@baseupp12 no he wasn't. When I watched those Finals I expected to see that, but it wasn't the case at all. Scottie guarded Magic when MJ was in foul trouble. Example is that clip of him picking Magic up full court. Most of the game thought, Mike was guarding Magic.
Thank you! I've been saying this for years most ppl haven't actually watched those finals they just heard that narrative and went with it.
It's time to end the GOAT debate, and Realize that this Man is the real GOAT!
If you think about it the goat debate was always the x player in comparison to MJ debate
But I guess goat debate sounds better than the comparison with or vs Jordan
The "debate" was manufacturered by the media for money and attention. There never was truly a debate.
Imagine if he was tasked to play PG for the majority of his career. This guy could get 15 assists on a flip of a switch. Unreal 🐐
No he wouldn’t 😂 y’all are mad delusional
@𓏼 Not saying he would average 15 assists. I'm saying that immediately after being put at PG he went from getting 6 or 7 assists to 12 and 15 assists. It's insane...
@@toogoat9293 becasue that was his job
@@lon3frqnci119 I didn't day they or them. I said his as in Micheal Jeffrey Jordan. We already seen that when his team needs him to do something he'll do it just like all the other greats
@@toogoat9293 mj stat padded that entire triple double stretch
there’s evidence in the last dance that proves it
He wouldn’t be able to sustain that play style to get top 15 in assists
So glad you broke down, and first informed people, about this stretch of when MJ dominated at the point guard spot. I loved Jordan at the point but I can't say he should have stayed at the point. As great of a point guard as he was, he was THE natural 2 guard, born to play the SG spot.
so yall hate bron fans for celebrating losses but yall do the same for jordan? dude went 5-6. that pg style of play was clearly not effective. he prolly just padded those assists lmao
@@joezxc whos yall why are you generallizing when he didnt even bring up bron in the first place, truly patheic how men like you can get so defensive for another man. also jordan went on much worst stetches as a sg, besides bozo 5-6 was a higher win % than when jordan was a sg that year so actually it did, jordan just didnt have enough help." he prolly just padded those assists lmao" so instead of actually watching atleast 1 or 2 of those games you choose to assume? i like both bron and jordan and they are both in my top 2 but you are one of the biggest le-d-riders i have ever seen
@@joezxc if he had the proper team around him who knows how the record would end up. Its why when idiots say all he did was score i sigh since they clearly never saw the man play.
Anyone saying Jordan was trying to play for stats never saw prime Jordan play it was not in his nature. He wanted to win above all else. Jordan won in the Triangle offense.
The same Triangle offense that is 11-2 in NBA finals. While Lebron in his ball dominant play is only 4-6.
Point of this video is to show Jordan could get all around stats if he played in an player focused offense. Instead of an offense that wasnt so one dimensional.
@@joezxc I noticed they came to Jordan defense instead just admitting they do they do the same thing.
@@joezxc No one is celebrating loses. They're just giving information about how well he played at point guard. Instead of seeing that you said nothing positive and stated he probably was stat padding?
The thing with the triangle offense is that there is no single floor general because the ball is always moving and your players won't have that many assists but the team as a whole will average a lot of them
In that sistem MJ still averaged like 6.6 apg
Great video, that part of MJ's career is rarely mentioned. But it's further proof that he was able to accomplish stuff that's simply unthinkable for other GOAT candidates.
I'm 100% that he would be one of the greatest 3-point shooters, if 3-point shoots had the same importance they have today.
100%. he had a better 3 point shooting season than Reggie Miller and he broke the (then) 3pt record in a finals game in the first half vs the Blazers.
@@_M.... false narrative he was a bad 3pt shooter. Plus 3pt shooting wasn't known in his era at the time.
^^^ 🤮 ^^^
just.....no.
He’s the greatest mid range shooter of all time. If he worked on threes I bet he’d be in the 45% range on good seasons.
Y’all can accept that mj had flaws. He was a below average 3 point shooter and that wouldn’t change in any era
3 pointers have always been important. An entire 3 point contest has existed for decades💀
And some people still fall into GOAT debates... There is no debate. Great stuff Johnny
LeBron is the goat
@@ekamsandhu134 thats just saying im winning the lotto this year so no lol
@@dxtremecaliber OL GOAT JAMES
When I was a kid this was my favorite Jordan year by the numbers, 32p 8r 8a is savage. Imagine if the kid in gym class who was the biggest try-hard, was also the kid with the most natural talent. That’s MJ.
Judging from his captivating play that surpasses the human level and his contribution to the whole basketball world, Jordan will continue to be God.
The dickriding is crazy.
Calling another man god is CRAZY
@@literallyatrashboat8711 don’t talk about black Jesus like that
Relax he’s litterally just an all time great. This pedestal thing is crazy talk. Y’all are the reason ppl don’t think mj is the goat anymore. Y’all act like he’s perfect
FACTS
The 7 triple doubles in a row is tied 3rd for longest streak. Westbrook with 13, Wilt with 9 then Oscar and Jordan with 7.
As impressive as MJ's adjusted stats looked like in this video, now imagine if he rested on defensive and only cared about offense.
Do you think he didn't try on offense? lol
Then you'd have the past 6-7 years of LeBron
@Your Ordinary Stranger
You comprehension is less than ordinary my guy
he rested almost every game. pip did all the job 😂 remember when jorbum ran away from a rookie kobe after kobe embarrassed him 😂 what did mj do? came crying to pippen begging him to guard kobe 😂😂😂 mj didn't want to guard the best players. he just wanted to guards plumbers LMAOOO foh
@@davidmartinez52420 nah 2019 and 2020 LeBron was good on defense
*FINALLY!!!! ANOTHER MICHAEL JORDAN VIDEO!!!*
30/9/10 for a career while being one of best defenders ever is nuts. It just shows that despite the ridiculous numbers we saw from Magic and Larry and the ones we see today from Lebron and Doncic, they’re not shit to what MJ was when he gets the same level of ball dominant usage and the keys to run the offense. Even so, Jordan being 33/6/6 in the playoffs while being an all time defender shows you that it’s him and everyone else in all time greatness.
But I definitely agree that he wouldn’t have enjoyed the same level of success had Collins continued coaching and Jordan never got to play in the Triangle. Pippen’s ascension along with an improved supporting cast turned their offense into a multi level threat due to Pippens all around game and the defense went to new levels as he had Rodman and Grant as help defenders. This is best shown during the first 3 peat as Jordan had a reserve of shooters in Paxson, Armstrong and Hodges along with Pippens playmaking to take the pressure off him. In the 2nd 3peat, Rodman’s rebounding gave Chicago so many more possessions along with shooting and offense Kukoc Pippen and Kerr created.
Jordan might’ve become the king of every major box score number if he had continued to dominate the offense, but there’s also no question he would’ve won less as we have seen that ball dominant offenses don’t win chips.
7:21 Jonny, you made a huge mistake. It appears your calculations for adjusting pts reb ast were using his stats as PG vs his total stats that year rather than comparing his PG to his SG stats. You calculated -9%pts, +17.4% reb, +35.5%ast. But the actual numbers are -9%pts, +21pts, + 55.4% ast.
So at 8:28 when you compare him to Lebron, Jordan's stats should actually be 27.4pts- 7.5reb-8.2apg vs Lebron 27.1-7.5-7.4. That's a big difference compared to your adjustments of 27.4-7.3-7.2
Just for fun, since Lebron hasn't played until age 40 like Jordan, I took Jordan's 3rd year to the end of the Bulls run and compared it to Lebron from his 3rd year and for next 11 season. Below are the correct adjustments as well as direct comparison:
Jordan: 32pts-6.3reb-5.4ast-2.5stl-0.9blk
Lebron: 27.8pts-7.3reb-7.0ast-1.6stl-0.8bk
Adj MJ: 29.1pts-7.6reb-8.4ast-2.5stl-0.9blk
Adjusted MJ beats Lebron by 1.3pts, 0.3reb, 1.4ast, 0.9stl, 0.1blk.
Appreciate you looking out! The correction in now in the pinned comment
@@jonnyarnett Thanks! I appreciate it! It's a big difference in the final comparison.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Its a difference alright
These numbers are insane!! That’s a half a season sample size though. Doubt he would you keep those averages for his entire career
@@UrinalUser It's hard to say which way it would have gone eitherway, improve on that 1/4 season or not. I think the fact that Jordan playing in an era where players didn't stat pad as much as they do past decade and yet had IMO better stats than Lebron during an 11yr period says a lot:
Jordan: 32pts-6.3reb-5.4ast-2.5stl-0.9blk
Lebron: 27.8pts-7.3reb-7.0ast-1.6stl-0.8bk
Jordan has +4.2pts + 0.9stle +0.1blk and better defense play in return for 1.0reb and 1.6ast.
When MJ was at his peek, aside from shooting 3 he was honestly the perfect all around player and was a elite at everything.
They don’t give MJ off ball game, playmaking and longevity enough credit.
Fun fact: MJ's best 3 point shooting season is better than any Reggie Miller 3 point shooting season or LeBron season. 3.5 attempts per game and shot 42% from three on the season
@@justinpurcell3717 that was with a shorter 3pt line
@@generull6552 No it wasn't, that season happened the year they moved the 3 point line...
Edit: nm you're right, I thought they moved it back a foot not up a foot. The corner was still the same though
@@justinpurcell3717 He shot 41.2% from corner 3s in the 96/97 season,which is impressive. Idk how much he shot from it in the 95/96 one though.
@@justinpurcell3717 that is false, Reggie has many seasons surpassing his makes and one season surpassing his efficiency.
Lebron in the other yes MJ best 3 point shooting percentage is worse than MJs.
But lebron has a lot more seasons with more made 3s
So if Jordan played Pg for the rest of his career he would have similar numbers to LBJ, that's saying something. I would have loved to see a whole season of MJ at point so we can actually see how his numbers would have looked and how teams planed for it
No. MJ's numbers trump LeFlop's
@@user-jg6gu87tfcdrtbb This is why we can't have NBA discussions no more
Hell nah lol
Mj wouldn’t be able to sustain it like lebron and it wouldn’t translate to wins.
@@leultrainstinct406 lmao LeBron couldn’t either remember 2022? most of his stats came from garbage time lol
Never get tired of this guy
Jordan would be the GOAT in any era. His game was far more multifaceted than people realize. He would adjust
It’s hard for some to fully understand how great he was. Without the floor general aspect of some players nowadays.
I have a way I always drop on comment sections. I say to folks, imagine how 'on' and deadly accurate Curry is, and that Jordan was times 5 of Curry with his offensive AND DEFENSIVE skillset, while being an elite, ferocious and ruthlessly efficient in the same package.
Yes, players today just accumlate far more stats. . Between 1973-2008, only Jordan averraged 27pts 8ast in the same season (in the season discussed in this video). Since 2009, it's been done 13 times by 6 players.
What about rebounds included? Let's do 24pts 8 ast 7 reb. 1968-2008, only done once by Jordan in the year of this video. Since 2009, 14 times by 5 players (12 times since 2016).
Want 24pts 10ast? Between 1973-2015 only one player averaged 24pts 10ast in 1990 with Michael Adams. In 2016/17, Harden and Westbrook both averaged 24-10. And since 2016 it's been done 5 times by 3 players.
You can see how players today stack stats much more than before.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson and that's because they have made the game benefit offensive players and defenders
Man... I AM SO GLAD you made this video so these LeBron fanboys can stop talking about how much more supposedly "versatile" LeBron than MJ. 😂
He is more versatile tho. But MJ is still better, LeBron is at two
@@legendarywiimaster Actually... he's not. The only real attribute he has over MJ is his passing and MJ isn't really that far off. LeBron is known as this "defensive wizard" but he's really not. He had a stretch when he was in Miami where his defense was suffocating but that was it. He was developing on defense in his first stint with Cleveland and was a down right LIABILITY on defense in his second stint in Cleveland and beyond. Whereas MJ was the arguably best OFFENSIVE and DEFENSIVE player in the league for a solid decade. He has 9 All-Defensive selections to LeBron's five and has a DPOY LeBron doesn't have. He's one of two guards in NBA history to record 100 blocks and 200 steals in a season(D.Wade is the other) LeBron has never done that. MJ has 10 scoring titles to LeBron's one. MJ was a career 84% free throw shooter to LeBron's 73%. You can argue that LeBron is more versatile but the accumulative stats, advanced stats and accolades all say otherwise my guy.
@@Sheng-Li248 I never said LeBron was the GOAT. He’s at two and no Kobe is not better
@@legendarywiimaster I know you didn't say LBJ was the GOAT but you DID say that he was more VERSATILE than MJ and I'm telling you that's not true my guy. 🙃
Jonny arrnett can you make a vid on how good Jordan’s 37 ppg seasson was?
It was really good, the end
Arguably his 3 best seasons are the year AFTER the 37ppg season where MJ averaged 35pts-5.95ast-5.5reb-3.2stle-1.6blk-53.5%fg, the year in this video (32.5pts-8.0reb-8.ast-2.9stl-0.8blk-53.8%fg) or his first championship year were he averaged on a championship team 31.5pts-5.5ast-6.1reb-2.7stl-1.0blkc-53.9%fg. His 37ppg season might just be his 4th best season.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson nope. The year after that is definitely the greatest year in Jordan's career. He played the best regular season of all time, being only player in that time who average 35 points and makes first team all defense (actually winning defensive player of the year award and was steals champion), that season Jordan was on a whole another level.
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 what do you mean nope? You agreed it was better than the 37ppg season. Another major reason 35ppg season was better is he improved his shooting from 48.2%fg in 37.1pts to 53.5% in 35pts. He lost 2.1pts but gained 5.3%fg, 0.3reb, 1.3ast, 0.3stl, 0.2blk, and had 0.2 Turnover less and improved his defense. And his team improved 10 wins from 40 to 50.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson sorry. I didn't understand you. I understood that you think his 37 points season is better than the next season.
This proves being "all-around" don't mean sh1t when you the GOAT scorer/elite defender/elite clutch player. No one called Oscar Robertson the GOAT. This experiment with PG MJ looks good on paper. But the winning formula was for MJ to be the most badass combo scorer/defender/assassin the NBA has ever seen.
F*ck assists.
F*ck rebounds
F*ck stats in general
GAME FILM DOES NOT LIE
SKILL and WILL is greater than Excel spreadsheets
Lebron made the first 3-1 comeback and history and did it against a 73-9 team all while being the first player to lead both teams in every single statistical category
he’s also the only player with 20k 10k 10k, 30k 10k 10k, and will retire with 40k 11k 11k
for normal players, you’re right. But lebron takes that shit to a level that puts him in debates with mj
@@leultrainstinct406 Lebrun did make 3-1 comeback. He still has only 4 titles in 19 seasons while Jordan won 6 in 15 season. Lebron also leaves teams to join super teams so it’s going to be easier to make a finals like that. He had a great super team in Heat but only won twice and if not for a lucky rebound and last second shot from Ray Allen, he would have had only one ring with heat. Lebron is 4-6 in finals and 22-23 record. Jordan is 24-11 in the finals going 6-0.
@@leultrainstinct406 first maybe in the finals but not in history. Plus it was the whole team not just LeBron. Leading both teams in stats is not as impressive as you think. Averaging the most for any in a finals series is more impressive
Actually, if we don't include his Wizards years, when MJ was far past his prime, his adjusted numbers would be 28.6 PPG, 7.4 RPG, and 7.3 APG, While being an Elite Defender. Considering that Bron has yet to drop in production due to age, it's more fair to compare to only Chicago MJ numbers, and it's crazy how dominant he is. It's basicly the same stats as Lebron, but with better scoring, and these numbers ignore the fact that the pace of the game was a lot slower in the 90s than nowadays, which means less points, assists and rebounds available.
You can't fault LeBron for still performing at an all-time level even now. If you're comparing the totality of LeBron's career, you have to do the same with Jordan's, even if his wizards days weren't as good as his Chicago
Every single season/year counts!
No it’s not fair lmao, if you’re going to do that then only take the best 13 years of Lebrons career and ignore everything else
@@j.isbell03 Unless your goal is to determine who was better at basketball instead of who had better access to career prolonging technology.
@@j.isbell03 But Lebron hasn't played until he's 40. His number will continue to decline. Well, with the inflated offensive stats today Lebron is being helped. He turned 37 this past season and had his best combination of points per game and efficiency. But he's clearly not even top 3 player today so it goes to show how even comparing stats across eras is very difficult. Luka right now playing in this high pace high efficiency era will end up destroying Lebron's basic stats. Luka is averaging about 28pts 9reb 8.5ast the past 3 seasons and Lebron never once averaged 28pts 9reb 8 ast in one single season let alone 28-8-8
Its a good day when Jonny uploads
Glad you made this video, because many fans today don't understand that superstars like Harden, Luka and Westbrook in his prime all had these crazy stats because they were the primary scorers and point of the team's attack, which leads to great stats but doesn't help to win a championship and probably never will. Because that system can have only one superstar on the team while others should be role players who can stretch the floor and shoot threes if they are open. But basketball is a team game, you need a well functioning team to win it, not just one superstar and a bunch of supporting cast. That was the case during Jordan's playing days, and it's the same today. Just take a look at GSW and their playing style. They have a nice ball movement and make a lot of passes during the game, nobody's the clean distributer of the team, which makes them the hardest team to defend against.
Goat. People say he wasn’t a good passer or playmaker. This proves everybody wrong.
This adds more fuel to the fire as mj as the goat
Jordan as a Champion on Raid shadow legends
You mention a good point abou thow players today are more stat heavy due to the way the game is played. You can actually see that happen after handchecking was eliminated in 2004. Individual scoring from perimter players skyrocketed and you quickly began to see perimeter players put up more points + assist combined than before but it really elevated to the level of today with Westbrook and Harden. Between 1973-2008, only Jordan averraged 27pts 8ast in the same season (in the season discussed in this video). Since 2009, it's been done 13 times by 6 players.
What about rebounds included? Let's do 24pts 8 ast 7 reb. 1968-2008, only done once by Jordan in the year of this video. Since 2009, 14 times by 5 players (12 times since 2016).
Want 24pts 10ast? Between 1973-2015 only one player averaged 24pts 10ast in 1990 with Michael Adams. In 2016/17, Harden and Westbrook both averaged 24-10. And since 2016 it's been done 5 times by 3 players.
You can see how players today stack stats much more than before.
MJ would literally put better stats then 2k players
This is one of the many reasons why i never understood why Lebron was even in the top 20 discussions let alone in the GOAT debate. Bron hasnt just been the focal point of the offense like most superstars today but he WAS the offense. Thats why his teams would implode when he sat or left an organization
Bron has been stuffing the stat sheet for his entire career and STILL couldn't get 10 triple doubles in 11 games. Hes great but he not only intentionally stuffs the stat sheet but he also needs multiple HoFs and top tier role players in order to succeed
MJ and Kobe >>>> Lebron all day
Oh my God no way you believe that. So early Cleveland only imploded because of him? They were terrible. LeBron is better than Kobe in almost every way, and also doesn’t everyone with 3 or more championships need hall of Famers? It’s not just LeBron, Larry had some, as did MJ and Magic
@@legendarywiimaster People really dont understand what it means to be the #1 at a thing. Being an all-time great and being the GOAT is completely different
Pippen is literally the only HoF caliber #1 option he ever played with. The next best player was all-star Tony Kucoc and thats it. Rodman was a good role player not star.
LeBron's Cle team had talent but not a crazy amount. However neither did the rest of the east Dwight Howard made it to the finals with no other superstars just a bunch of good solid players with TEAM play not 1 player being the offense like LeBron's Cle teams
@@jdrmanmusiqking you said he wasn’t top 20, and sorry but you can’t choose your opponents. He has a legit GOAT case in my eyes, as he’s number 2
@@legendarywiimaster Lebron aint Close to Kobe. Kobe, with no other superstars (Pau Gasol is NOT a superstar!) won in the west against the Loaded Spurs with 3 Hof players, Top 5 Coach, and elite role players.
Kobe went through Dirks Mavs, Nash's Suns, CP3 with the hornets...
Who the hell did Lebron beat on his free pass to the finals? Boston ONCE and really Boston got robbed in game 7. Rondo was mauled under the basket for a no call
Chris Bosh's offensive rebound and Allen's 3 saved Bron's legacy. Kobe and Jordan could NEVER be in that situation
@@legendarywiimaster Your eyes dont work. Once again, this comes to most people not understanding what being #1 at anything looks like
Imagine Bobby Fisher, the GOAT of Chess (no lower than top 3) having LeBron's resume.
Imagine Justin Wong, Daigo, Sonic Fox, or MkLeo (4 of the Fighting Game GOATS) having LeBron's resume
Imagine Michael Phelps having LeBron's resume
Imagine Ali or Floyd with LeBron's resume
Top 20 out of tens of millions of people is still AMAZING but the GOAT of anything is a lofty thing to obtain and ya cant become the GOAT from longevity
This is why I laughed when people were really looking at wade, Kobe and jordan and talking as if hardens playmaking and rebounding was so much better than them a few years ago. I was like, had u given any of those 3 players the amount of spacing and shooters to work with, and put them in a role like harden, lebron, or Westbrook had, their numbers would look just as crazy. Imagine prime wade playing with actual floor spacing instead of what he had in Miami from 06-2009. Or Kobe pre gasol with all shooters, or this version of jordan playing a full season like this but in todays game.
I feel you on this. But, there’s so many other players in the league along with Harden. And they still don’t do what he does, even with having the knowledge of spacing and shooters. I think other stars could’ve had success, for sure, yeah. But, it’s also a testament to how good Harden is as well, despite not having any rings.
Harden's playmaking was clearly better than Kobe's, Kobe doesn't have the advantages over Harden those others guys have, like pushing the pace and collapsing the defense at will. He also was less willing/skilled of a passer compared to him.
Kobe in 2013 played point guard few times I think, and he also had really, really impressive stats when you talk about play making. I definitely agree
Mj as a point guard could do as much as lebron can do with the assist and rebound
Prime Jordan in 88-89!
My guy already knows what's up!
This is interesting, I did not know this. Thanks for making this video! What sets MJ apart is he was trying to win games instead of trying to 'get his' stats. I think this is a good example of why Triple Doubles in todays game are meaningless. Any great player can get one if they have the ball the whole game.
A triple double being easy for a great player. Is the craziest thing I ever heard.
@@chrisrobinson8339 He didn't say a triple double is easy for a great player... he said "Any great player can get one if they have the ball the whole game." You can't leave out - if they have the ball the whole game part. That's what makes his point valid. Besides, there are not as many "Great" players as you may think there are.
@@tiredoffools8929 People seem to have expanded the definition of what a superstar is to artificially inflate the difference between today's players and past players.
@@tiredoffools8929 Jordan literally had the ball in his hands dude was a fuckingballhog and still couldn't get 30 trip dubs in his career hell even draymondfuxking green has more trip dubs than mj so wtf u talkin bout
Although he was trying to win games, he only made a difference of 2 wins (57 wins vs 55 wins) and made the Bulls defense slightly worse. Yes, the Bulls defensive rating actually became better after Jordan left in 1993! Shocking but true.
Mr 720p delivered again.
MJ said he was the utility man of his team. He would do anything his team needed.
6:23 I saw what you did there.😆
You also forgot that was only 24 games. His numbers would surely improve as time goes on. He can still average 30 with more rebounds. His assists would increase but not by much under the triangle as forwards and centers benefit from it more..
Based on your math his Bulls career ave would've been at least 28.6 pts 7.6 reb 8.4 assists..
LMAO 6:23
Kobe also did something similar to this in the year he tore his achilles.
Would have been super interesting to see both Kobe and MJ to play PG for a couple of seasons in their primes.
I remember that. Kobe wanted to show everyone he could pass. Kobe was a bit passed him prime but he could still play prior to that injury. Bron fans stay sleeping 😂. They have no clue!
@@quann06 yeah definitely wasn't in his true prime, but he was still playing some of the best basketball of his career. He might have had similar longevity to LeBron if it wasn't for the Achilles. I could have seen him becoming kind of like Jason Kidd to finish out his career.
That said, I still think LeBron is a better playmaker than Kobe or MJ were even when they showed their PG ability, but I do wonder if they would have gotten better at that if they adopted it for a couple of seasons. Their bbiq is pretty much similar to Lebron's, so the only limiting factor would be their ability to pass, which I think they were both underrated in that area (though I think Kobe was a better technical passer than Jordan. Jordan was more like Stockton, great meat and potatoes passing ability, but didn't have the next level playmaking elite technical passers had. Kobe was closer to that as he would make reads you see from all-time great passers, he just didn't do it enough for most to remember it unless you were a diehard Lakers fan at the time like I was and currently am).
MJ was extremely fundamentally sound man, and very skilled.
I always noticed that most of his triple double were concentrated in very few games, and that video explains why.
When I was twelve I used to play "Lakers vs Celtics and the NBA playoffs" (based on that season), and I was suprised to see Jordan listed as point guard, and this video explains why :)
24 games are too few, but there is no doubt that Michael Jordan could play greatly as point guard (and, why not?, as small forward), but I think it isn't in his nature. I still believe he had the best possible career for himself.
Great video. I also think Jordan being more ball dominant would have negated some of the things that made Scottie Pippen special. Once Phil Jackson took over with the triangle offense, it just made sense to return MJ into more of a traditional 2 guard. And over time, I think MJ probably would have been less dominant defensively with more offensive responsibility.
That proves Jordan was as good of a passer as almost anyone. I do think though that had he kept on playing as PG his durability would have decreased or he would've had to lay off at the defensive side of the floor. Either way it could have impacted Bulls in a negative way (compared to what we know already happened: 6 rings)
Another amazing video, I think Jordan could've done virtually whatever he wanted on the floor and if he was more of a pass first facilitator then 100% he would be up there with the all time greatest point guards, although to your point would that have resulted in as many championships? who knows maybe with a pass first style he would've had more longevity too.
I'm Think MJ Would Have Still Have Retired 2 Times. Because Of His Father's Death & Jerry Klause's Wanting Start A Complete Team Rebuild
Jonny’s the MJ of basketball TH-cam
The RAID ad catching me out of no where was hilarious to me. well earned bag Jonny. Games not bad, either.
Lol. Thanks 😂 I like coming up with the silly transitions. Great account name btw! My brother is a Ganondorf main, so i agree tremendously. Haha
Glad to see Jordan finally get some shine for his work outside the baseball diamond
People forget Jordan averaged 8rebs and 8assist for a season he could really do it all
Using adjusted numbers is fine for this exercise, but PG Jordan would have probably averaged a double double for his career (points, assists). The percentages Jonny described came from Collins's offense, while the bulk of MJ's career numbers came from the triangle offense. So the key here is Phil Jackson and Tex Winter never coming into the picture.
The modern shill media do not want the younger generation to know these gems about Jordan. I alway tell them Lebron studied Jordan and he saw his numbers when he ran point so that’s why James refuses to play outside of his Lebron system which is patterned after Jordan’s 24+ games at point.
Jordan gave up personal numbers for team success when Phil begged him to buy into Tex Winters Triangle system. He would not 3peat 2wice in one decade if he remained selfish like Lebron.
I truly believe Lebron came in to stat pad from jump but sadly it does not bring you the team success. .
Lebron came in thinking his size and athleticism would carry him to big win. he had holes in his game, he was a mediocre shooter and it took years to fix it. Bron came in chasing a legend rather than try9ng to buuold his own.
Thanks Jonny for the video!
MJ the GOAT by a mile, whoever is second is nowhere close
Would love to see you rank all of Jordan’s championships in a future video!
The team and his play on those teams? And performance In just playoffs or just regular season or both?
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Jordan’s performance in the Finals to win those championships. Ofc you have to factor in how the bulls and the opponents performance as well
@@bejordan23 Thinking Basketball saw all 130+ play off games of Jordans career (or at least the chai teams). His best performances were the first 3 by far. His worst was from his best team that won 72. It was the only final where Jordan didn’t play great
There are no videos like this for Lebron. There are many hidden gem stats for Mike.
I agree, I used to be skeptical that Jordan was the goat until I started diving deeper into the history of the game and more I learn about Jordan with these hidden stories and stats it just solidifies for me that he’s the goat
Michael Jordan was better at his craft than any person in history.
When People talk about LeBron being a better playmaker and rebounder, I tell them this!!
but he is
@@gideonnartey1262 Not really... MJ has more offense rebounds than LBJ.
@@marvinholmes5803 who has more rebounds? lol you mj fan boys are delusional
@@gideonnartey1262 JORDAN has more offensive rebounds! Do you understand now?
Did you look it up yet? I expect an apology for your delusional comment... I know my shit before I comment unlike you!
by far the best intro on youtube
Still would've averaged 30ppg as a point guard though lol
Yup
Besides having the best basketball videos on YT, you're the master of the segue. As always, awesome videos. 👍
Crazy to think of MJ if he would of stayed at PG!
Surely he would of never got to being perfect in the finals, or even make it to that many.
Have seen similar videos about this but your video is also a 10/10 IMO
Jonny....the adjusted numbers also don't take into account that as full-time PG his averages wouldn't be affected as dramatically by the years he only averaged 2.9, 4.6, 4.3, 4.3, and 3.4 because as a PG those assist numbers would be way up....way more than the 35%...I would say like 90%.
It was an interesting experiment of imagination, but I don't think it really changes anything. It just proves as you said, that your output depends on your role and workload. So MJs skill is undeniable, and his 10 scoring crowns are insane. On the other hand, if LeBron was asked to be more of a scorer he would also have more scoring crowns than he has now.
no one has to ask you to be more of a scorer. you either are or you arent...
LeBum is career 37%FG outside of 3ft from the rim. In other words, he's a trash shooter who relies heavily on bullying to the rim.
Okay but we need to talk about how smooth the transition into the RAID shadow legends ad was
I think if Jordan had played PG his whole career to the level he played in this short stretch, he might not have won as many titles as he did. Basically, I think it would've been similar to LeBron's career. So this further strengthens the hypothesis that LeBron's ball dominance actually hurts his team more than helps.
Lebron never had the coach or teammates to allow him to not be as ball dominate except maybe in Miami
@@taj3618 LeBron has basically hand picked most if his coaches, so that's not really a valid excuse. LeBron not having the teammates to not be so ball dominant(which isn't even entirely true) is also partly his fault since he'sbeen allowed so much say in roster construction. He can't assimilate into a system either.....he HAS to be the system. LeBron being as ball dominant as he is is purely by design, not necessity.
@@taj3618 who was Phil Jackson in 89? A first year coach that hadn’t won anything. they still didn’t make it to the Finals that year. Lebron wanted Erik Spoelstra replaced his first year in Miami. He got rid of David Blatt, one the the best International coaches of the last decade. He left Cleveland and Tye Lue. Look at the fantastic job did with the Clippers without their two star players this year.
It’s a shame Lebron never learned to play without the ball in a system because his gravity in the court could create so many easy shots for players and opportunities for others to create away from him.
Bruh Jordan’s adjusted stats matching Lebron’s shocked me
Class is in session with an MJ gem from Jonny.
Good vid.. high level summary that touched all the bases..
And Jordan averaged those numbers without teammates spacing the floor and providing the optimal setup for ball-dominators that today's player enjoys
WOAHHHH LEBRON IS MJ AS A POINT GUARD
Wherever...whatever... whenever... he'd still be the best ever
Michael can do all things
Also, as far as MJ potentially being considered the greatest PG of all-time (assuming he played that position throughout his career)... Honestly, I think people would kind of say that MJ was the better player, but Magic was the better point guard.
Despite MJ putting up the assists, he just couldn't make the passes that Magic could make. Like Lebron is the closest I've seen in terms of passing talent to Magic, but even then there is a big gap between the two in my opinion.
So again, MJ would be the better overall player, but it's hard for me to say anyone is a better pure point guard than Magic since his passing and playmaking was 2nd to none and that's ultimately the most important skill for that position (no matter what all the nephew Steph fanboys say).
And this is exactly why the assists-rebounds argument Lebron fans tend to use is innefective against Jordan.
And others say he couldn't pass he doesn't do playmaking
GOAT
Mike coulda played center. He still woulda been the goat. Put sum spect on that man’s name!!!
My buddy was a paperboy & i remember getting a sports page from him to see MJs stats everytime. :)
Less 💍.. Jordan embraced winning over stats.. Jonny, you nailed it with this video
Great video, it helps to understand how much the type of player and way of play can change the idea of the player itself. MJ was another kind of animal. Amazing. Every now and then comes out some reminder of how dominant he was.
LeBron should have won that DPOY in 2013 and for sure he should have at least another season MVP.
For me they are 1-2 in the GOAT debate, one week MJ is up the other is LeBron...
@ 3:42 Jordan's Deltoid doin the Jumpman lol
This solidifies Brons greatness. Off the numbers, he's a point guard version of MJ. 2 goats
Yeah but no!
you and highroller are really great at what you do
Would also have been interesting to see how Larry Bird's career would have turned out had he played his more natural PF his entire career.
Are you saying Power Forward or Point Forward here?
If Michael Jordan Was A POINT GOD in today league he would average 30 points in triple double .
People need to understand one thing.
Today's players has 20+ 9+ 7+ statistics not cuz they're superior cuz the game is more positionless and the tempo is too damn fast , cuz physical contact reduced, scoring maded easier and with uptempot scoring machine game all other stats like rebound (cuz more shoot throwing) and asists (cuz more baskets) numbers also gets a boost.
If Barkley aint have a 25+ 12+ 8+ stats that not cuz he cant that's cuz that wasnt his business to do. The positions were more definitive and tempo were slower, physical contact was teh main meta.
Clyde Drexler could've have 21+ 9+ 7+ 2+ career easily but he didnt. Not cuz he is inferior to Harden , it's cuz of the meta he plays in. Its not about "old players cant do that" type of thing. They literally "wont" do that and no meta for forcing that either too.
And older era players werent that self-centered and stats-centered. Barkley or Garnett or MJ or any other versatile greats from the past can abuse the stats sheet with ridicilous numbers. But back then there were specialists for each task.
Specialist perimeter defenders, specialist rebounders, specialist long range shooters ,specialist shotblockers/post defenders etc.
Now everyone doing everything they not doing as great as the specialist but they're doing everything at some level.
Also Today's players obsessed with stats sheet we saw so many times Russel Westbrook yelled his teammates when they took a rebound on his watch or fail to turn his pass to an assist we saw similar attidute from LeBron some time to time too.
I never saw that from Magic or Bird or Jason Kidd these were kinda guys that could've end up with near triple double stats If they're more focused on that.
So MJ was a scorer that runs on a strict plan. And even due to that fact he did all those versatile stats sheet.
Imagine MJ being a guy like Iverson, LBJ or Harden like 18 seconds of 24 seconds ball in his hand ?
28+ 9 + 9+ 2+ 1+ on %50 FG easily
But MJ didnt pick stats he picked wining. And damn he won like no one ever did. And he did some crazy stats too :D How about that.
And all those stats sheet guys like LBJ, Harden, Westbrook, Doncic, Jokic never been elite defender tbh. %85 of their energy goes to offense and even under the conditions of today's meta this is the best they can do :D :D lol
Old Scholl really underrated. MJ is a GOAT.
LeBron in Miami?!?
Todays player have gotten better, and although there was talent back then, it’s even better now and you’ve still got elite defensive minds
@@legendarywiimaster Still 80s and 90s better stardom and playing a much more appealing game .. And Ratings shows that.
@@HadeyanUtkan yes because the old heads are very close-minded
@@legendarywiimaster lol Ok good job with ad-hominem
get that bag jonny
Lol. Thanks man 😂
People say LeBron is a better “all around” player than Jordan cause Jordan was mainly a scorer. No.
Lol fr and lebron doesn’t even play D 😂😭
Another banger!!!
Exactly!!!!! With adjustment he has almost the same stats as LBJ ...go figure. Like I said all the time equally as great
The scariest thing about this video is the fact that if Jordan was given the role of point guard... He literally becomes LeBron James 😂😂😂
This man is a chameleon! THE GOAT!!!
Raid better be giving you a bag for that long ass ad
Great video Jonny. 👍👍
Damnit Johnny.. I didn't want to but the Fire red 3's and now i want to. lol Anyway one thing as a fan of this game i noticed that after he took a turn as a point guard it did helps his overall game.. even at 7.3 assists for a shooting guard back than was and should be considered excellent.
He literally averaged a triple double when moved to point guard
Jordan would be in the top 3 greatest PGs of all time with Magic and Steph. And btw, it was MJ's decision to go to the point, because he wasn't happy with his teammates production.
Love my Jordan videos thank you 😊...