Whilst we're nerding out, I think we should also note that the pallets flare out to different extents at the butt, so comparing dimensions should probably be done half-way up the grip. And of course grips and overgrips have different thicknesses too, so getting a consistent feel always requires some fine tuning. It may well be that the typical Head pallet is slightly less circumference than the particular 1/8th inch specified, if the typical Head grip is slightly thicker. I'm seeing a nice table of pallet circumferences by manufacturer at the middle and butt please (Troy)! In trade I'll send over my string-bed cell-size list, which is far more useful than just mains x crosses!
There is one more very, very important parameter - which is the angle at which bevel numbers 2, 4, 6 and 8 slope. That determines whether your hand will be a little more on "top" of the racquet, or the more it is "behind" the racquet, when held in a continental grip. Even when the distances between the long side and the short side are identical, if these angles are different, the grip will feel totally different. This issue becomes extremely important if serve and volley is the staple of your game. These nuances come in because people can have very different size palms, even if finger length is more or less the same, or vice versa. So, if you have a big palm relative to your fingers, go more towards a squarish/roundish grip. If you have long fingers relative to your palm, go more towards a rectangular, classic TK82 type grip shape. I cannot even begin to tell you how much this issue has tormented me, till I figured it out. great episode.
I start with a slightly undersized Head. Cut 2 strips of plastic, slightly wider than 1/2" x 1/16" thick. Place these on the wide sides and add a thin over grip. This gives me a rounder pallet which does not spin and feels good and I can feel the ridges of the plastic with the tips of my middle and ring fingers in a semi-western grip and can quickly find the grip. Love it! Also use a relatively heavy but head light racquet, but that's a different story.
I've learned tennis using a wooden racquet, which has no flare. Years later, when I could afford my first "graphite" racquet (a Dunlop), I almost wasn't able to play with it, due to the flared butcap. I had to remove the grip and wrap around some string (had nothing else to work with) until the flare almost disappeared. I've found that Yonex has less flare but also feels "small" (I play with size 4, but they all feel almost like 3 to me...and I have 6 of them) and the bevels are not so pronounced like on a RF97A. I know someone who removes the grip (and he uses size 1!) and only wraps an overgrip, to better feel the bevels. I usually "know" by feeling with the pinky or more extension of the index, or by grabbing the throat with the other hand. You are right about that Head "old school" grip shape. I know a bunch of players who are avoiding HEAD just because of it. So, I can tell them that they can now try HEAD again, because that shape is not used anymore.
Troy, it's actually easy to order tk82 or tk82s pallets and do the replacement yourself at home. My stringer is just a one man company, and he googled how to swap the pallets, and does it for me for 20 bucks. I guess that's a pretty penny in a way, but it's a far cry from going to Roman Prokes!
Great video. I am a fan of the traditional rectangular head grip shape TK82 pallet all the way. TK82S feels more bigger in my hand doesn't feel good in my hand.
I'm glad Head moved to the Speed( square) shape. Really helps my 1 hander backhand. The rectangular shape of my all-time favorite 90s era Prestige Tour just give me fits, since i grew up with Wilson and Prince.
Volkl and head have the same pallet shape and both now also have a more square shape that comes on some rackets, but can be custom fitted to their brand's frames. however, the inner shapes of head and Volkl pallets are different to the point where fitting a Volkl pallet to a head racket will give you too much of a square shape, meaning Volkl pallets are a few mm thicker/taller. the squarer of the two types from these companies will have the letter S at the end of the pallets model number.
@Carlos Gomez Enriquez, Awesome! Seems like this has been a fairly common topic lately! Hope it helps and let us know if you have any further questions! :) Michelle, TW
@@tenniswarehouse It helps a lot. FYI the measurements are great but I think It would have been really helpful to measure circumference with a wilson pro overgrip. This helps for anoyone switching brands to see L4 with one brand now would be L3 (what I did going from head to Yonex). For example My final grip would be 4 9/16 with an overgrip. Actually this would be a great chart to have on the racquet section on TW and probably would improve demo experience and even blind buy experiences.
@@carlosgomezenriquez283 I measured some of mine, all with the stock cushion and yonex supergrap overgrip: Extreme Tour L3 - 35.0 x 32.3 Blade Pro L3 - 35.6 x 32.6 TFight RS 300 L2 - 35.6 x 31.2 Phantom 100X L2 - 34.7 x 31.6
@@carlosgomezenriquez283 yes, but you can sort of infer that. The thing is that the cushions vary a lot, and I took my measurements with them. From experience bouncing around all brands, I’m usually an L2 everywhere. With Head I *need* to go up to L3 or else my elbow hurts, and with Prince I can get away with L3 fine. For Yonex L2 feels a bit big but I’d rather have that than go L1 and never be able to resell it.
Can Tecnifibre pallets be changed to Head TK82 pallets? The Iga intrigues me but it's biggest gripsize seems to be 3. Would be interesting to know if I could put size 4 Head TK82 pallets on it.
@@freelance88 Thanks very much. I needed a solution for the fact that the 3 was the largest grip they put out, so I put some hard plastic strips on all 8 bezels, then wrap an overgrip over that and then finish it off with a Head Hydrosorb Pro basegrip. That more or less made it a gripsize 4 to 4.5.
There's been a movement to smaller grip sizes (sort of ignoring the "finger-width" rule), but... for rec players, is there quantified relationship between a larger grip with increased control?
Not for certain on that, however because the smaller grip size tends to be the trend, it also means that for recreational players it could potentially lead to increased forearm exertion, and possible arm pain. So we usually suggest for those who have experienced arm pain issues, to go with the biggest grip within reason, or that feels comfortable, to take away some of that squeezing stress and also gives more stability of the racquet. Troy, TW
I've played over 10 years with Grip 3 before I noticed Grip 4 actually works better for me. Overall racquet stability, volleys and overheads improved significantly...
Hi,Tennis wharehouse team,I wanted to ask I am an aggressive-all court player which head speed racket to choose from or any other racket (I want a 100 square inch head ,O am coming from a blade 98)?
If you are looking at the 100 headsize, of the Head racquets we recommend checking out the Speed MP or Speed Pro (our test team favors the Pro slightly more for stability and a bit more feel from the 18x20 pattern), as well as the Gravity MP or Tour. Extreme MP is good racquet as well, but more power and spin oriented, and not quite as much feel as the Gravity or Speed. When looking at other brands, the Wilson Pro Staff Six One 100 v13 is a good one to check out, as well as the Prince Textreme Tour 100P or 100 (310), the Prince Phantom 100X 305, or 100X 18x20 (although Phantoms are low powered with a ton of feel and control). Troy, TW
Unfortunately, Head does not distribute pallets in the US, but we do sell them at Tennis Warehouse Europe. You can check them out here: www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/descpage-HPALLET.html, and, www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/descpage-HYTSPAL.html. Troy, TW
Michelle: “Sometimes we don’t even know why we like the things we like” 😆 I’m someone with embarrassingly small hands for a guy, so the larger, more rectangular the grip & the sharper/more pronounced the bevels, the dirtier/less ‘clean’ my contact seems to be. Rounder grips feel smaller in my hand, so I get closer to a 4, which is only offered in junior racquets. I was curious: What exactly is a “shrink sleeve” & would this help me? Or should I cut the stock grip off & use 2 overgrips to round it out? Or one shrink sleeve & one overgrip? 🤔 thanks in advance!
A shrink sleeve is a sleeve that is heat shrinked to the pallet for building up a grip size - typically in 1/16" (half size) or 1/8" (full size) dimensions. I would recommend trying two overgrips, or using a thin replacment grip, such as Tourna Pro Thin to reduce grip size effectively. -Andrew, TW
I've been a long time user of Wilson racquets, and just bought a Yonex with a size 4 grip. I feel like it's more bulkier for some reason. Do some people use a smaller grip depending on the brand? I personally feel like the size 3 would feel more comfortable in my hand with a Yonex but with a Wilson the size 4 feels perfect. Am I overthinking it?
There are certain brands which tend to feel slightly bigger when it comes to grip size, and usually that feedback is with Yonex, and some Babolat racquets. So if it is something that you are noticing, and potentially bother you while playing, then you could try to exchange it for the size 3, or there are some grips that you can purchase that are bit thinner than most, however Yonex grips are pretty thin already, so maybe exchanging it might be the way to go. Troy, TW
@@tenniswarehouse thanks for such a helpful response, Troy. I appreciate your videos and insight. Is there a thinner replacement grip you’d recommend? I noticed there’s a TW leather grip that looks thinner in specs is that worth trying?
You could try the thinner (1.3mm) leather grip, and have it wrapped very tightly to help thin it out even more. And for synthetic grips there is the Tourna Pro Thin, Prince ResiThin, and Wilson Feather Thin. Glad to help, hopefully you find a resolution, and start rippin' with the new Yonex! -Troy, TW
Me and my hitting friends all think that Head is still more rectangular (TK82S), but the measurements show that it's more square than Wilson. You folks sure?! What explains what we feel?
Just realized I have a caliper in my toolbox, and I immediately rushed to measure my Extreme Tour L3 and my Blade Pro v7 L3.. both with stock cushion and supergrap overgrip. And you're right. Head 35.0 x 32.3, Wilson 35.6 x 32.6. I knew Head was smaller in size, but I cannot explain how Wilson is the more rectangular one. My brain is now going haywire because I'm pretty sure Head feels more rectangular.
@@brunis_m Bruno, don't worry it's not your brain. As well as measuring the long and short sides, it is necessary to measure the diagonal sides (and / or their angle). Wilson's are about 13.5mm and Head's 12mm. This is what makes Wilson overall feel more square and Head more rectangular. Measuring just the long and short bevels provides insufficient information to determine an irregular octogon's complete dimensions.
Whilst we're nerding out, I think we should also note that the pallets flare out to different extents at the butt, so comparing dimensions should probably be done half-way up the grip. And of course grips and overgrips have different thicknesses too, so getting a consistent feel always requires some fine tuning. It may well be that the typical Head pallet is slightly less circumference than the particular 1/8th inch specified, if the typical Head grip is slightly thicker. I'm seeing a nice table of pallet circumferences by manufacturer at the middle and butt please (Troy)! In trade I'll send over my string-bed cell-size list, which is far more useful than just mains x crosses!
There is one more very, very important parameter - which is the angle at which bevel numbers 2, 4, 6 and 8 slope. That determines whether your hand will be a little more on "top" of the racquet, or the more it is "behind" the racquet, when held in a continental grip. Even when the distances between the long side and the short side are identical, if these angles are different, the grip will feel totally different. This issue becomes extremely important if serve and volley is the staple of your game. These nuances come in because people can have very different size palms, even if finger length is more or less the same, or vice versa. So, if you have a big palm relative to your fingers, go more towards a squarish/roundish grip. If you have long fingers relative to your palm, go more towards a rectangular, classic TK82 type grip shape.
I cannot even begin to tell you how much this issue has tormented me, till I figured it out.
great episode.
I start with a slightly undersized Head. Cut 2 strips of plastic, slightly wider than 1/2" x 1/16" thick. Place these on the wide sides and add a thin over grip. This gives me a rounder pallet which does not spin and feels good and I can feel the ridges of the plastic with the tips of my middle and ring fingers in a semi-western grip and can quickly find the grip. Love it! Also use a relatively heavy but head light racquet, but that's a different story.
This is exactly the effect I need with Head racquets. Trying to get it closer to the Dunlop grip shape.- Bingo.
I've learned tennis using a wooden racquet, which has no flare.
Years later, when I could afford my first "graphite" racquet (a Dunlop), I almost wasn't able to play with it, due to the flared butcap. I had to remove the grip and wrap around some string (had nothing else to work with) until the flare almost disappeared.
I've found that Yonex has less flare but also feels "small" (I play with size 4, but they all feel almost like 3 to me...and I have 6 of them) and the bevels are not so pronounced like on a RF97A.
I know someone who removes the grip (and he uses size 1!) and only wraps an overgrip, to better feel the bevels. I usually "know" by feeling with the pinky or more extension of the index, or by grabbing the throat with the other hand.
You are right about that Head "old school" grip shape. I know a bunch of players who are avoiding HEAD just because of it. So, I can tell them that they can now try HEAD again, because that shape is not used anymore.
Troy, it's actually easy to order tk82 or tk82s pallets and do the replacement yourself at home. My stringer is just a one man company, and he googled how to swap the pallets, and does it for me for 20 bucks. I guess that's a pretty penny in a way, but it's a far cry from going to Roman Prokes!
I wonder if he would take mail-ins?
Great video. I am a fan of the traditional rectangular head grip shape TK82 pallet all the way. TK82S feels more bigger in my hand doesn't feel good in my hand.
I'm glad Head moved to the Speed( square) shape. Really helps my 1 hander backhand. The rectangular shape of my all-time favorite 90s era Prestige Tour just give me fits, since i grew up with Wilson and Prince.
Volkl and head have the same pallet shape and both now also have a more square shape that comes on some rackets, but can be custom fitted to their brand's frames. however, the inner shapes of head and Volkl pallets are different to the point where fitting a Volkl pallet to a head racket will give you too much of a square shape, meaning Volkl pallets are a few mm thicker/taller. the squarer of the two types from these companies will have the letter S at the end of the pallets model number.
I was literally gonna create a thread/question about this topic on talk tennis. Don't need to anymore. Awesome
@Carlos Gomez Enriquez,
Awesome! Seems like this has been a fairly common topic lately! Hope it helps and let us know if you have any further questions! :)
Michelle, TW
@@tenniswarehouse It helps a lot. FYI the measurements are great but I think It would have been really helpful to measure circumference with a wilson pro overgrip. This helps for anoyone switching brands to see L4 with one brand now would be L3 (what I did going from head to Yonex). For example My final grip would be 4 9/16 with an overgrip. Actually this would be a great chart to have on the racquet section on TW and probably would improve demo experience and even blind buy experiences.
@@carlosgomezenriquez283 I measured some of mine, all with the stock cushion and yonex supergrap overgrip:
Extreme Tour L3 - 35.0 x 32.3
Blade Pro L3 - 35.6 x 32.6
TFight RS 300 L2 - 35.6 x 31.2
Phantom 100X L2 - 34.7 x 31.6
@@brunis_m ah thanks, nice info. I was actually meaning circunference so what would the final inches be: 4 3/8, 4 9/16 etc
@@carlosgomezenriquez283 yes, but you can sort of infer that. The thing is that the cushions vary a lot, and I took my measurements with them. From experience bouncing around all brands, I’m usually an L2 everywhere. With Head I *need* to go up to L3 or else my elbow hurts, and with Prince I can get away with L3 fine. For Yonex L2 feels a bit big but I’d rather have that than go L1 and never be able to resell it.
Been waiting for this one!
I’m with you Michelle, didn’t think about having a difference on the sides! Geometry class coming back to be 😂
Can Tecnifibre pallets be changed to Head TK82 pallets?
The Iga intrigues me but it's biggest gripsize seems to be 3.
Would be interesting to know if I could put size 4 Head TK82 pallets on it.
There is no way to change tecnifibre grip. Confirmed with Roman Prokes staff. Use a kimony shrink wrap
@@freelance88 Thanks very much. I needed a solution for the fact that the 3 was the largest grip they put out, so I put some hard plastic strips on all 8 bezels, then wrap an overgrip over that and then finish it off with a Head Hydrosorb Pro basegrip. That more or less made it a gripsize 4 to 4.5.
There's been a movement to smaller grip sizes (sort of ignoring the "finger-width" rule), but... for rec players, is there quantified relationship between a larger grip with increased control?
Not for certain on that, however because the smaller grip size tends to be the trend, it also means that for recreational players it could potentially lead to increased forearm exertion, and possible arm pain. So we usually suggest for those who have experienced arm pain issues, to go with the biggest grip within reason, or that feels comfortable, to take away some of that squeezing stress and also gives more stability of the racquet. Troy, TW
I've played over 10 years with Grip 3 before I noticed Grip 4 actually works better for me. Overall racquet stability, volleys and overheads improved significantly...
Hi,Tennis wharehouse team,I wanted to ask I am an aggressive-all court player which head speed racket to choose from or any other racket (I want a 100 square inch head ,O am coming from a blade 98)?
If you are looking at the 100 headsize, of the Head racquets we recommend checking out the Speed MP or Speed Pro (our test team favors the Pro slightly more for stability and a bit more feel from the 18x20 pattern), as well as the Gravity MP or Tour. Extreme MP is good racquet as well, but more power and spin oriented, and not quite as much feel as the Gravity or Speed. When looking at other brands, the Wilson Pro Staff Six One 100 v13 is a good one to check out, as well as the Prince Textreme Tour 100P or 100 (310), the Prince Phantom 100X 305, or 100X 18x20 (although Phantoms are low powered with a ton of feel and control). Troy, TW
@@tenniswarehouse thaks Guys for helping me out
And Solinco grip measures?
Hey Troy do you know where I can actually get the pallets? I have these old prestige 660 that need new pallets. Thanks
Unfortunately, Head does not distribute pallets in the US, but we do sell them at Tennis Warehouse Europe. You can check them out here: www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/descpage-HPALLET.html, and, www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/descpage-HYTSPAL.html. Troy, TW
@@tenniswarehouse Troy or any other pallet brand will do if I can get it in the USA?
Michelle: “Sometimes we don’t even know why we like the things we like” 😆 I’m someone with embarrassingly small hands for a guy, so the larger, more rectangular the grip & the sharper/more pronounced the bevels, the dirtier/less ‘clean’ my contact seems to be. Rounder grips feel smaller in my hand, so I get closer to a 4, which is only offered in junior racquets. I was curious: What exactly is a “shrink sleeve” & would this help me? Or should I cut the stock grip off & use 2 overgrips to round it out? Or one shrink sleeve & one overgrip? 🤔 thanks in advance!
A shrink sleeve is a sleeve that is heat shrinked to the pallet for building up a grip size - typically in 1/16" (half size) or 1/8" (full size) dimensions.
I would recommend trying two overgrips, or using a thin replacment grip, such as Tourna Pro Thin to reduce grip size effectively. -Andrew, TW
I've been a long time user of Wilson racquets, and just bought a Yonex with a size 4 grip. I feel like it's more bulkier for some reason. Do some people use a smaller grip depending on the brand? I personally feel like the size 3 would feel more comfortable in my hand with a Yonex but with a Wilson the size 4 feels perfect. Am I overthinking it?
There are certain brands which tend to feel slightly bigger when it comes to grip size, and usually that feedback is with Yonex, and some Babolat racquets. So if it is something that you are noticing, and potentially bother you while playing, then you could try to exchange it for the size 3, or there are some grips that you can purchase that are bit thinner than most, however Yonex grips are pretty thin already, so maybe exchanging it might be the way to go. Troy, TW
@@tenniswarehouse thanks for such a helpful response, Troy. I appreciate your videos and insight. Is there a thinner replacement grip you’d recommend? I noticed there’s a TW leather grip that looks thinner in specs is that worth trying?
You could try the thinner (1.3mm) leather grip, and have it wrapped very tightly to help thin it out even more. And for synthetic grips there is the Tourna Pro Thin, Prince ResiThin, and Wilson Feather Thin. Glad to help, hopefully you find a resolution, and start rippin' with the new Yonex! -Troy, TW
@@tenniswarehouse Great! Thanks for all the helpful advice.
What if it’s not the pallet but the replacement grip that feels more rectangular or square
Ha, I knew I wasn't crazy and that Yonex is way bigger than other brands! Bigger than Babolat or Wilson on both planes
Excellent thanks!
HEAD rectangle with a firm synthetic! Bliss
Me and my hitting friends all think that Head is still more rectangular (TK82S), but the measurements show that it's more square than Wilson. You folks sure?! What explains what we feel?
Just realized I have a caliper in my toolbox, and I immediately rushed to measure my Extreme Tour L3 and my Blade Pro v7 L3.. both with stock cushion and supergrap overgrip. And you're right. Head 35.0 x 32.3, Wilson 35.6 x 32.6. I knew Head was smaller in size, but I cannot explain how Wilson is the more rectangular one. My brain is now going haywire because I'm pretty sure Head feels more rectangular.
@@brunis_m Bruno, don't worry it's not your brain. As well as measuring the long and short sides, it is necessary to measure the diagonal sides (and / or their angle). Wilson's are about 13.5mm and Head's 12mm. This is what makes Wilson overall feel more square and Head more rectangular. Measuring just the long and short bevels provides insufficient information to determine an irregular octogon's complete dimensions.
Great work, but I think that you should also measure the butt cap which makes even bigger difference.
need 4 1/4 grips data(prince dunlop)...help.........troy
Head's practice of geoblocking certain products in certain countries is contemptible. They need to be called out on it.
Yo de las raquetas que salieron este año me quedo con las yonex vi cort para mí son las mejores