Absolutely love this. ❤️ I am 24 and I stopped going to the LDS church my freshman year of HS, was being bullied by the church kids in "seminary" or whatever it was called and was forced to go to the church ever since we where babys. You have helped me immensely with finding the right words and realizing I wasn't the only one that had these experiences. Never thought some one would also think of the "Mormon" church as cult like!
Hi Angie! Thank you so much for your kind words and for sharing your story. I'm so happy that the video was helpful to you. It's taken me a long time to really find the words myself, and vocalize the issues that I have gone through after leaving. Yes, it's certainly a bright and shiny version of a cult. And the C word stings to a lot of people, but it really checks all the boxes of mind control that removes individuality, free agency and sovereignty. Thanks for tuning in!
I’ll drink, but I just don’t like many alcohol drinks. If I get a beer I’ll nurse it until I eventually throw it away. I’m pretty fortunate that I just don’t like it because I was raised in a family of alcoholics. When I was younger, we played drinking games so after a few minutes, the beer tasted like water. I’ve been drunk plenty of times, but probably not in 30 years.
I stepped away from the church 10 years ago in my 50s. I was a convert at 18 and very much a TBM. I don't like being around alcohol, I experienced a lot of drunk people throughout my childhood. I didn't leave the church so I could drink ... I had much better reasons, and yah, coffee tastes gross. I truly do respect greatly people who choose to not drink especially those who have walked away from a life of drugs and alcohol.
My bestie hates the taste of alcohol & doesn't drink. It's frustrating how much static she gets. She doesn't care if others drink, doesn't say a word. But people give her so much flack.
@@MrsW0f0rd thats exactly like me. i just can't stand the taste of any alcohol, i've tried many but i just can't get past that specific alcoholiness. and people are so weird about it, have literally lost friends over it and guys get weird about it on dates
Kudos to your fiance and his thoughtful support of you. When I left the JWs 14ish years ago, it was my husband who taught me how to be a feminist. Early in our relationship I was extremely demure, over-apologetic, under-educated, and asked permission for absolutely everything. Now, I'm an activist for women and queer rights, and I'm an English Teacher in a high school. My favourite unit to teach is Propaganda, to keep my students aware of cult strategies.
@lyn - your relationship sounds beautiful, living with and loving someone so much that you encourage them to grow into their best self! It's the kind of partnership I aspire to find and the type of partner I always aspire to be! Thank you for allowing yourself to see and grow into the beatiful human standing for others and expanding minds of future generations!
Teach your kids about critical thinking and questioning EVERYTHING. There should be no sacred cows - that is certain things you cannot question. Apply critical thinking to EVERYTHING!
As a gay man, I find most religious institutions to be high demand, in that I consider renouncing homosexuality to be a high demand. Trying to force people to renounce who they are as people is cult mentality to me. I have stories from my Church of Christ background I could tell.
YES At church of Christ I was kicked out of morning bible study as an 11 year old for refusing to accept that Muslims were “our real enemies as Christian’s” .-. I am still not sure if that was just one dude that lead the study or if it was a belief held by more people. Another random thing, the pastor was made to quit but the reason wasn’t aired to the general people in the congregation and I still wonder what happened. When it comes to some churches it makes you assume certain things.
As someone who is in a relationship with an immigrant, I relate to the "ignorance" of pop culture a lot because we spoke different languages growing up and our pop culture was very different (French Canadian + South Italian), but just like your partner, I got to share movies with my partner and experience them for the first time through his eyes. It's a really magical moment that I feel very lucky to experience!!
That's so funny. I have the exact same experiences with my husband who is 7 years younger than me. He just loves his new cultural references as we have more to talk about 😅
Currently experiencing this my partner is Indian and im from the south so we share a lot of things that make us up. For me its food and history mainly bc i hate most of the things the south offers. But he shares movies, dishes, music, culture, religion and it has been so much fun learning his first language and singing songs from Bollywood movies. Its soooo magical.
Oh my goodness!!! He’s so cute!! You guys make me so happy!! I love what you are doing with this channel. I was raised in the Pentecostal Church and so much of what I’m hearing on this channel is making me realize that I was also manipulated by my religion. I’ve gone through so much, including being married to a man that was abusive and I would tell the leaders in my church and was told that I needed to pray that God would change MY heart! I was also rejected by my church, stripped of my leadership position when I finally threw him out and filed for divorce. I was vilified for finally creating healthy boundaries for myself and my children. The hardest thing that I faced was 9-years ago my 17-year old son died tragically and I was constantly told that I was in sin because I had lost the joy of the Lord!! I mean, my son just died and I was judged for GRIEVING!! Thankfully my new husband was supportive and encouraged me to go into counseling with a professional outside of the church. My counselor has helped me understand that my grief is completely normal and expected. That those around me that are struggling with my grief are 💯 wrong! My grief is my response to deep love and loss. I still love the Lord and have found a safe place and a supportive group of Christian friends that have helped me heal. I still walk with the scars of being in an abusive marriage and the loss of my son. These friends have loved me in spite of my losses. I’ve found a church that accepts me and doesn’t judge me. Your channel has forced me to confront my upbringing in a high demand religion. It’s hard to process these realities, but it’s helping me to understand why I am the way that I am. Thank you for providing a safe and loving place to face these realities.
I’m so sorry you were treated that way after losing your son. That was very cruel of them. They really don’t know Jesus or they’d never do that. I’m sending you a big hug.
Your reaction to 'oh tell me your trauma' built into the ex-Mormon label is how I feel about being raised in Utah as an Asian never-Mo. Oh, you're from Utah, are you Mormon, are you adopted, but then where are you really from, why did your parents move to Utah. Like dude...back off a bit we aren't friends yet. Also I love the way you and your fiancé communicate.
Oh wow! Those are layers I have never considered before. I can't even imagine. Thank you so much for sharing! It's so nice when someone else "gets it". Thanks for watching and supporting! p.s. Jonathan is the best, isn't he? He's my person (swoon)
I'm just loving you! You're gorgeous, love your voice, personality, and most importantly, your journey out of mormonism. Your fiancé is a hoot! Thank you for doing these episodes, so helpful.
Awww that just made my day 🥰 thank you! I really appreciate your kind words. He certainly is. He’s always making me laugh. Thanks for tuning in! Check out the newest episode released today, all about sex 😜
I've just found your content and I am actually obsessed ❤ I can't believe you had 1k subs 8 months ago, and over 50k today Shalise! That shows how amazing your work is!
I too just found you and free days ago and have been binging so much of your content love it and I see your channel is soaring.... Which is fantastic!! Thank you ❤️
Shelise and Jonathan, I really really enjoyed this podcast. As I deconstruct or attempt to begin to deconstruct from being an active member of the LDS church for 40 years, it’s really helpful to get different perspectives and broaden my horizons by learning so much more that is outside the box. I look forward each week to a new episode. Sending love to you both.❤
Thanks, Donna! I'm happy you enjoyed the episode and found it helpful. I'm doing my best to add value and perspective to those watching. As always, I appreciate your support!
@@CultstoConsciousness I’ve been really enjoying the guests that you have been having on your TH-cam channel. It really does me a lot of good to listen and learn. To have relatable information shared is quite touching and important to me. You both are so cute together. I love it.
Hi Shelise, I'm so sorry you haven't had more support from your extended family. I haven't had that experience from my family or friends, thankfully. I joined the lds church when I was 9 and my husband and I are now in our 40s, both served missions, etc., and have stepped away from the church. I've been very honest with different members of our ward and they've been so kind and respectful, including our local church leaders. My kids still want to go to fun activities, like the Christmas party, etc. and so we still do things like that and without any pressure to come back to church. I wish everyone's experience could be as smooth as ours has been! ❤
This is fun! This is the first time watching this video and your fiancé is now your husband. He is also congratulating you for 1K subscribers…you now have over 102K. Congrats on your growth 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
I loved how you described your 'restrictiveness' as a virtue! It truly is, especially when it's a choice made from your own free will. There's no need to drink alcohol, consume coffee, or eat animal products. Just because we're all going to die someday doesn't mean we should mistreat our bodies, animals, or the environment! I loved seeing how supportive your fiancé is of everything you do, but I hope he can come to fully accept your decision and recognize it as a virtue. No one should ever be pressured into drinking alcohol. Often, people push others to drink because they know it's unhealthy and don't want to feel guilty when they see you choosing not to. Same with veganism. Love your channel and love to see how healthy your relationship seems. All the best to both of you!!
Look forward to the book. A lot of folks just getting on with their lives because of the people like you :) who do the work to help others get on with their lives. Thank you
This is such a beautiful video. Shelise that was such a wonderful way to describe how it feels when people ask very personal questions in a very impersonal and uncaring way. I know that sometimes people's intentions are not that, but it can feel like we need to protect ourselves in that moment. Second. how lovely that you found love and your person! In regards to the cult, that can also be considered grooming, when you look at the information, how it's given and the molding of behavior. I think that's why certain religions like to start young and with entire families. Oh the shame, the shame and guilt that they use against you.
This is a great video! With regards to kids, if you think of the questions and answers beforehand, you can easily teach kids morals and responsibility without a religious framework.
I haven’t even watched the episode, just the intro and already love it! I’m so happy to see people enjoy their life like this. Specially after having such a shame based childhood! I love this!
I was raised secular, became religious, and 13 years later liberated myself. It was incredibly difficult to become religious and very difficult to leave it.
This is my favorite "Cults to Consciousness." How beautiful to see this HONEST discussion! I have learned so much from "Cults to Coniciousness." I thought I was "raised Mormon," but I have discovered that was not at all the story. My parents were an absolute In-the-middle-of-everything-one-WONDERFUL-BY BIRTH-MORMON!! and an "almost" non-member. They were also the absolute epitome what of a relationship-of-love should be. I know. I witnessed it. I am a poet and have studied wide and there was never a relationship like the one my parents had . . . have. Still . . . they were NOT "married in the Temple. I spent my youth watching "The Elect" in their homes, with relationships that didn't exist and abuse that did. I went home and saw the truth of what love could be . . . what love was, what love is. I loved watching this. Bless you both, with what I have to offer. . . with is plenty, as I am a woman who understands love.
Im on comment binge😂 but so happy you found such a thoughtful balanced man! My husband is ex mo and I can absolutely relate to this episode! Keep up the excellent work 💜
New subscriber here (found you through your interviews with Growing Up in Scientology)… i just want to say that I love how comfortable you are being you and how open you are to others viewpoints .. I wish more people had your compassion for others walks… then we’d have such a better world
In my opinion it's all about using your intuition. If something resonates with you...that is your truth. Critical and logical thinking are so important also. Use your head and follow your heart. I'm also a ex-mormon.
I agree. God can speak to your Heart, Mind and Soul (and also through intelligence)! A Favorite scripture of mine (D&C) Is that you must study things out (heart, mind, spirit). God speaks in many ways depending on how you hear him. Intuition, perception and discernment are important! Okay God Bless :)
I love your content, it's helpful to me on my journey and I imagine to lots of others. Congrats on the 1000 subscribers! *also I work at a popular theme park where we put where we're from on our name tag. I have changed mine from Utah to Florida because I was so tired of the different interactions associated with Utah. Peace! ❤
Oh wow! Thank you so much for sharing! I'm so happy that you are finding it helpful. Thank you for the congrats also. It is so surreal that so many people want to tune in, and it makes all the hours of editing and recording worth it! Oh man, you feel my pain! Florida sounds like a fun place to hail from. Maybe I'll try it out next time haha
You guys are awesome! I'm so moved by your journey and by the mutual respect and support you and your fiancé have. During a dark and grim time in my life, this offers many rays of hope and sunshine.
He forgot the part of the intro where you always tell people to be nice in the comments bc these are real people lol I love that you always say that btw. He did great! You two are so adorable together 🥰🥰
Very interesting. As a 64-year old woman who searched for a long time and went into many different religions (Christianity, Buddhism, Sufism, etc), I agree with almost everything you said. I learned a few things along my way. Underneath all these religions, when you take away all humans added, the message is the same: it is all about Love. True mystic experiences in all different religions seem remarkably similar: we are all connected, we are all the same, we are part of a higher power, whether you call it God or Allah or The Universe. There is no single way to reach spiritual enlightenment. What I also came to understand is that man introduced "specialness" into almost all religions. "Only we know the way", "anyone not part of our religion is doomed" and all such nonsense. Any religion teaching specialness (and almost all do) is something to run away from. Specialness is always an added human layer. I was lucky enough to come across something that taught inclusivity, connectedness, non-judgement and the ultimate sameness of us all. It was self-study as well, so that helped. I also came to see that without any spiritual connection you can be quite lost. I raised me two boys outside of religion and to be good humans, which they absolutely are. However, I had to witness deep depression in them both as they didn't have an anchor. If you believe in God or any higher power, you have somewhere to turn in times of crisis. Looking back, I may have chosen a low-demanding religion and raised them in that, but even then there is no guarantee. We live in an imperfect world and no matter how we think we can make it perfect by our decisions, it just doesn't work. Making peace with its imperfections may be the very best thing to do.
As a vegan ex Mormon, it has nothing to do control or deprivation. I became an exMormon and then Humanist because of my curiosity. That naturally led me to question everything and educate myself on topics like big ag and food as a capitalist product. What lies were being fed to me for profit? After much research using information from organizations like the USDA, I decided I didn’t want any part of the horrible industry, but I’d never heard of veganism. Then I made sure I could thrive nutritionally and once that was confirmed, I never looked back. There’s just no need to torture, exploit and murder animals or exploit people and pollute our biosphere for animal parts and excretions. 20 years later, I’m still vegan and it’s really not that hard, especially now. The hardest thing is the prejudice you get from non vegans. A really fun movie to watch is the SciFi comedy, Carnage by British comedian Simon Amstel. It gives a quirky, irreverent look at the future when everyone is vegan. Note that I drink coffee and socially drink alcohol. I’m not a big drinker of alcohol just because it does cause scientifically proven problems with organs and can cause physical dependence. But I don’t fear it all, it can be super fun occasionally.
Thanks for this! The prejudice is SO hard, when people look at you like a walking mistake or ignorant person for not wanting to eat animals. I've been trying out meat again and still don't know how I feel about it.
Honestly I wouldn't eat meat either (nor drink milk and eat 90% of American food). But even though I eat a lot less meat then before (and only from butchers who sell meat that really had a good life) I do still really like it 😳 but I don't see why people judge you for being vegan. I even cook it if I have too as long as I know a bit ahead that I have too 🤣 no but I really do admire it actually.
I personally have no issues with vegans. I dont like being put down because i eat meat. I believe its a personal decision and should be left there. I won't stop eating meat like you won't stop being a vegan. Let's just get along.
@@f.miller9522 Isn’t it interesting that I said nothing about you eating meat but you felt attacked and wrote “let’s get along”? I think that’s a reaction you might want to explore. This exactly my point of they hardest thing being vegan. Me just reacting to a comment about being vegan and sharing why I did, triggered you to feel judged.
I grew up in Utah as a non-mormon. I remember kids asking me directly which ward I belonged to, and then asking afterwards why I wasn't Mormon.😮 Even adults asked me this, as a child. So yes, terribly invasive. Upon asking why I wasn't Mormon, I'd be invited to join them at church. Once I kindly refused, that was the end of the conversation. No interest regarding who I was as a person. On the flipside, you're almost automatically friends with non-mormons. In middle school friends of mine invited me to the Mormon summer camp, EFY. I attended!! And the pressure is real and effective! I almost gave testimony with everyone else, even though I didn't even want to partake in the religion. Wild. That keeps me grounded. I didn't do it because right as I was about to stand up, the testimony period was brought to a close, thank goodness. After the camp, I asked my friends to please stop talking w me about their religion but they couldn't. Our friendship fizzled out. They were fun to hang out with but I didn't like the constant conversion attempts. It felt disrespectful. I'm somewhat thankful for my experience as I am almost phobic of group think scenarios, where the main group excludes anyone who is different, often without a second thought towards the other person's perspective. Since leaving Utah, I am averse to joining the "majority" of any context. I largely float around, for better or worse. Luckily I've found a partner who floats similarly, never really landing or staying in any one scene, keeping everyone at a bit of a distance. I like but also hate it. Being in different places what really effs my head is thinking I was so different from Mormons but seeing how much my style, beauty standards, world view, sensitivity to sexism, has been influenced by Mormon culture. I clearly come from Utah. Something I'm happy my children might be able to participate in is block parties, not limited by religion. There were block parties when I was a kid but as a non-mormon I never felt allowed. And even if I were allowed, why would I want to go if the whole time I was seen as a potential converted member?! Thank you for helping me to further understand and breakdown my experience as well as the possible perspectives of the people who made me feel so excluded and one dimensional.
You two are so cute, both seem like such genuine people ❤️ I love to see more sensitive, empathetic men with better communication skills these days. Yay!
I was 29 when I joined a different church. I grew up in the mormon church. My mother was raised in the mormon church and my dad Baptist. We went to both churches but mostly mormon where my mother's huge family held all the important positions. When my brothers and I reached 8 years old there was a lot of pressure on us and our dad to have us baptized. He said, no. We could choose when we became adults. We were all baptized at 19 although we were not active. All three of us are good people. We are not mormon. I am now 69 and born and raised in Bessemer/Birmingham, AL. Over the years, little things happened. We didn't have the internet as we do today. First crack was watching PBS in the middle of the night while I was rocking my baby to sleep, former mormons were being interviewed and talked about mormons believing and aspiring to be gods in heaven. I thought the former mormons were telling false stuff about the church. There were no temples in the south at that time. My family members either went to Utah, Washington DC or California to do temple work. I thought all that happened there was baptism for the dead and weddings. A few years later, my husband and I were traveling with our family and I was reading a book, called "Mormon Murders". As I read the first half of the book that told of Hoffman manufacturing documents and selling them to the church, I was puzzled as to why the church would want to buy this stuff that seemed so very weird, like the Salamander letter. When I reached a part in the book that described the ceremonies that took place in the church, I was dumbfounded and read it aloud to my husband. My husband looked surprised and asked me if JS was a mason. My husband is a mason and he said those are the secret rights of the masons. That was the end of my belief. I wondered around spiritually for a while. Years later, a friend asked me what religion I believed in. Episcopal but I was raised mormon. He exclaimed oh year the church of JS the seer. What??? Yeah, he used a seer stone to write the Book of Mormon. Again, what????? The internet was now a thing and I could look stuff up. Stuff written and podcast by other former mormons. All my life my favorite song at primary was, "The golden plates lay hidden, deep in the mountain side. Until God found one faithful in whom he could confide. A record made by Nephi, a Godly man of old. Now in the Book of Mormon the story is retold." It was a lie. Because, of the teachings of that church, I watch podcast by people like you, to asure me I am on the right path and not cast into out darkness. Make no mistake. It is a cult!!! Thankfully, you have a boyfriend who helps keep you focused on truth and what is weird. For years and even today, I have to research some things to understand their origins...the bible or the book of mormon.
Absolutely loving the both of you ,yes 💯 % Kudos to you both seriously! Totally resonates so much for me. My husband and I are the same with being open minded and here for the experience, also for our children letting them chose what they believe in for themselves while also sharing our beliefs with them also. Plus bring just awareness and making sure they know and are absolutely comfortable talking with us and coming to us with anything. Life is a process and we are all learning and growing together from one another everyday. To that it really makes the experience that much more meaningful.💜💚
Here's another comment, beyond what I said earlier: you guys are going to make AWESOME parents! Your minds, hearts, and souls are in the right place, with clarity and compassion and wisdom in terms of your parenting plans. Your kids will be very blessed and fortunate to have you as parents. (On another note, kudos on being vegan and protecting the animals and the planet.) By the way, I e-mailed you two suggestions for guests for your show. They're amazing people, and so are you. You are a true source of light in today's darkness.
My husband was raised Catholic lite (they went for Holidays and his mom practiced, and he and his siblings went to Catholic private schools, but they weren't strict at home), we've been married over a decade now, and I still mention things that he helps me to unpack and figure out how I REALLY feel about it. I'm thankful for my ex-mo friends.
I used to be Mormon, I am now Wiccan. I have so many thoughts. Predominantly, that consent is important in all aspects of life, not just in sex. Sex without consent is rape. Religion without consent (or consent under coercion) is a cult. There are so many things in life that cross the line, not because of the act itself, but that the act is under coercion. It is perfectly fine to want to grow up to be a housewife. It is not ok to insist that anyone else grow up to be a housewife. It is fine to put restrictions on your own diet, but unacceptable to expect everyone to eat a restricted diet. There is so much of our culture (not just under a religious guise, but in the mores of our over-culture) that places demands on an individual under coercion instead of through persuasion and reason. I also have thoughts on magical thinking. I think that everyone has magical thinking in some form or another. Even the most analytical of us have personal rituals that we use to effect the world around us in ways that can only be considered magical thinking. (Show me a lab full of scientists, and I guarantee you, you will find a troll doll or a shiny rock near a machine. "Don't take away that analyzer's doll. It will not work if you take away its troll doll") The thing about this is, we use magical thinking because our conscious minds are not able to analyze all of the variables that go into what seems to be random events. But our intuition is powerful, and will make connections that our consciousness does not. Magical thinking allows us to listen to our subconscious and pick up on what we are aware of, but not aware we are aware of. There is a downside to this magical thinking. And I think that it is a downside many of us carry with us when we move from an organized religion into a spiritual one. We fall into the belief that we can control the world around us, just because we have become more adept at interpreting our minds signals. This slips into something of a "prosperity gospel" or "toxic positivity" mindset. We believe that if we believe hard enough we can manifest good things in our life. This is partially true. If we believe hard enough we can influence ourselves into making something come to be, that we could always have influenced. Unfortunately we then take that a step farther and conclude that if the thing didn't manifest it must have been because we didn't believe hard enough, when we really didn't have any influence over the situation at all. This can lead to a victim blaming situation, where if someone is struggling it is because they obviously aren't in tune with the spirits. There is another aspect of organized religion which bleeds over into the new age religions. That is the Universe starts to sound a lot like another word for God. "I think the Universe wants me to do this thing", or "The Universe sent me this gift" are things I have heard countless times before. It takes some work to determine if the speaker believes that they have a close personal relationship with an entity that they call "The Universe", or if their phrasing is shorthand for "My circumstances for complex and indeterminate reasons seems to be pushing me in this direction", or "This gift has come into my life for unknown reasons, and I should take advantage of it" Also, I have noticed that looking into the historical reasons for things brings light to a lot of interesting conclusions. I cannot help but wonder if the whole LDS church began as an attempt to move social darwinism into a religious context. Trends like insisting that People of Color (POC) were not allowed to hold the priesthood, and then not letting those people into the temple who were not ordained. That would put a big damper on interracial marriage. Add to that the insistence on Genealogical research and the push for large families would make for an effective eugenics program. Perhaps I am being too cynical. But I have questions.
Hi Becky! Wow! I absolutely loved your comments here. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I would love to have more conversations with you. Maybe even do an episode together. Send me an email at cultstosconsciousness@gmail.com if you are up for it!
Great show y’all! Such a fun couple. I’ve been out of the church since 1985. I’m still sweeping up cult crumbs, and staying current in the Mormon jargon so I can communicate best with my family who are still members. Someone has to keep these families together; the church isn’t. It’s important we stick together and learn to trust again. Shelise, you are a powerful force. I love how your energy brings all the other exmos together. It helps with the healing. It matters. Thank you both!
Aww thanks so much! We are putting out a couple episodes this week about our “not so Mormon wedding” haha that’s awesome that you are doing your best to keep the family together.
I've just started listening but already know I'll likely be sharing this with my husband who didnt grow up mormon and can probably relate to Jonathan. Thank you for all you do and have done!!!
Your ideas about how to educate your future kids are the right ones. Communication teaches; hits and fear teach nothing. And please never end a discussion by saying "because I said so," no matter how tired you are from explaining the same subject over and over again.
You're such a nice couple! I kind of feel like your partner is the more balanced (I really struggled to find the right word here...), with his live-a-little advice, but honestly I can see both sides. Enjoy your lives together!
Hi 👋 Shelise and Jonathan this was awesome. I dont agree with everything you but I agree with most of what you said. I must say you two have an amazing chemistry its easy to listen and understand what you are saying
For me, when I was fully invested in “THE Church” I looked at the rest of society as 2nd class…I know, disturbing! I actually felt sorry for the poor souls that didn’t understand what I understood. I wasn’t just brainwashed, I was also tumble dried! When the “light” finally came on I felt (and still feel) used, gut punched and then tossed aside. Being raised so close to the trees🌲…When I (X member) finally stepped back to see the forest 🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲the shock was and is overwhelming! I feel knifed, betrayed and spat on!
Thank you for this! I am married to a committed Mormon. Being I am not, it has led to a few heated conversations & I struggle with A LOT of his beliefs. I am strong in my Christian faith but not “religious”. I am meeting with elder & sisters as much as I can BUT it has put some tension in my marriage. Praying to God to touch his heart & rescue him from the Mormon madness (with all do respect 😉). Not going to give up!!!!
How’s it going? I was a practicing and believing Mormon for the first 10 years of my marriage and my husband was raised catholic but is a nonbeliever. I never wanted him to feel like I was trying to convert him and it made me so uncomfortable when missionaries would show up unannounced and try to convert him and pry into our lives. It felt violating. He was understanding of my need to follow the religion and supported my choice to attend church, wear garments, and pay tithing on my own income. Now that it’s been a few years since I’ve been out of the church I think our relationship has gotten better because it’s no longer a concern of mine whether or not he would ever be interested in the church. I felt so much guilt for marrying a non-member against the teachings of the church.
@@valerieodonnell6764 My heart goes out to you! We’ve learned to accept each other’s differences. I do go to church with him once a month to show him Christian love & honestly, so I can pray over the church while I am there. We find where can come together and that is in prayer. We do pray together & alternate who is doing the prayer. We do plan to start a bible study together of the New Testament bring there are many things he didn’t know. I’m praying that Jesus, Himself, through God’s direct word will open his eyes. I pray for your relationship to stay strong & praying both of seek the TRUE Christ & His love through His grace. 💜
I think you perfectly summarize a basic kernel of truth in (social) anarchism at 13:40. Self-determination, opposition to coercion, and the freedom to develop and evolve in concert with other people.
This was a very informative interview for me. I will definitely not ask any probing questions if I ever meet an ex-Mormon. By the way, you two are sooooo cute!!
Uff I guess this was my favourite episode till now! I have been watching all this videos as a Therapy process 😂 I grew up in a Cult, less religious cult and more life/health/believes Cult. It was really hard after growing up and leaving the community because we all got hit hard with reality and the perfect protected world we grew up in had nothing to do with what got thrown at us outside that Community. My ex husband bullied me about how I grew up and the one right now embraces it and helps me heal. Most of us who left ended up going back for not being able to integrate in the outside world. I don’t blame them! And it was not a horrible time there it was just not compatible with real life and you felt like it was made for you to fail outside of it so you would come back crawling… funny enough the Church we had was the most free and loving religious I ever met and I still say I belong to that religion, I just don’t share all the rest with them anymore. I became an outsider 😅 thank God!
You two are #lovegoals. Loopholes had me crying I was laughing so hard. You are both so aware of yourselves and others. It's a sign of intelligence- technical and emotional. When you struggle in your coupleship, do you ever return to these early videos to recenter? How amazing to have the ability to do so.
Oh, I feel you with the whole "being from Utah = being Mormon". I was born in Morocco but I'm an apostate, which is punishable by death so I ran away to France. And when I became a citizen I changed my name to Emma. So I hate it when people I barely know ask me "How come your name is Emma but you look arab?". The answer to that invites too many questions that are just too personal. So I have a BS answer for people I barely know. After all, it's weird to put the focus on someone's background like that when you've barely exchanged a 5 minute conversation (it's rude in France anyway) But if we eventually do become friends, or if the person gets to know me before they ask me, then I say the truth but even then there's a lot of "mmm, it's complicated" because I don't want certain things to be generalized and end up hurting nice Muslim people, who are already vilified by all the narrative since 9/11... So, really not simple! Also, feel a lot of comfort watching your channel because most people you interview (and yourself) seem so together that it gives me hope to be healed someday! Blessings 🙏
Hi Emma! Thanks for sharing. Yes, it drives me crazy. Thanks for relating. I’m happy you are enjoying the channel! ❤️ there is so much hope for a better future
@@CultstoConsciousness Hi Shelise, thanks for your lovely answer 💕 If you want to discuss leaving islam, which IS a high demand organization, I'd be open to chatting with you...
Religion/beliefs are intensely personal. I am ex-Catholic and feel very free to have my own thoughts and beliefs. "Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it" Christopher Hitchens. That pretty much sums up my "religion." We don't need man-made, emphasize man, religion to be decent, kind, loving, giving, compassionate people. Christopher Hitchens, IMO, was one of the most "christian" persons I've ever known. He spoke all of his life about justice for the most vulnerable of this world. He exposed hypocrisy and outright lies. Whistle-blowers are my heroes/heroines. They tell me there is decency in this world/country. Best to both of you, a dynamic couple.
I'm in the middle of the video and I'm enjoying it so far. I was wondering if you have a video where you talk about your personal experience in the cult? I would love to hear your story
Awe omg I love seeing you guys together!!!! That hilarious laughter with the “soaking” situation 🤣🤣🤣 my husband and I have been together since I was 14, and I’m 34 now 😅 I cherish those moments of laughter because they are the best! He’s also witnessed my ah, quarrels (let’s be nice and say it like that lol) with Christianity. So he’s experienced some of the things that your husband has dealt with 🤣 it would be awesome to see another episode like this!
This is so cute. I think if no cussing , coffee, alcohol or being vegan is the only thing you have to deal with you're good. All of these can be reached as an personality outcome with or without religion.
Love this video. Nice to meet your “Man to marry” he’s a really great person, profound happiness to you both. Your video’s are very fun and informative. Great to see you are open to Buddhist thought . I have followed the Dharma teachings for 40 years It has helped me to function in a world of craziness. Be Well and mindful.🙏☸️🤗
Hi Shelise, thanks for a this podcast. I’m embarrassingly honest sometimes, but I believe this time, because I’ll admit that *I was wrong* || I thought I wouldn’t enjoy this episode with your husband but I really did, hence why I feel like it’s ok to be honest even though I’m embarrassed of myself and my false assumptions. Thanks to both of you 🌱 With kindness and respect, Grace
Watching this again as didn’t finish it! Absolutely love the relationship you guys have and how you are developing your channel to inform people so they can explore their own belief system and path! So glad I found you from the beginning ❤❤❤ ps love your necklace in this one! Is it a crystal as reminds me of malachite ❤️❤️❤️
I could relate to what you said about being in a cult. I was also in a cult that was less obvious. I didn’t recognize it as a cult until YEARS after I left. Even my family and friends say it was a soft cult or not one at all. It checks all the boxes like you said.
I didn't grow up in a Crazy Fundie Religion. My upbringing was petty non-religious and atheist. And, I haven't eaten meat in almost 50 years. All kinds of motivation for all kinds of lifestyle choices.
On a separate note, I was vegan for a while. Sadly, due to having Hoshimotos Thyroiditis Disease, veganism made me really sick. The body aches, cramping, mental fog, and pure exhaustion all disappeared when I went to a Gluten-free, sugar-free, high animal protein diet. My ethics rejected it but, after feeling so bad for so long, my body embraced it thoroughly. Veganism can be a fad and can be done for the wrong reasons. For me it was simply because of my love for animals but, if it's making someone sick then it's not the answer.
It's hard for former members to explain to "never members" how truly weird the belief system is. In the end, it doesn't matter if you have good relationship processes; communication, trust, empathy, and sex.
Never been a member and i get how odd it is. Being raised as a believer in the Bible, i find it odd that a person can take that book, change it to fit a man and people follow. My hurt for others comes from seeing former mormons, loose their faith in God because they've been so screwed with mens false interpretations of God and who he actually is. That to me is the sin of those men. Causing so much pain in others that they leave God's love.
I am a life long Episcopalian. I like it because their philosophy is attraction rather than promotion. Most of our sermons " ponder, think about this or that. Everyone can have their own opinion. You dont hear about many ppl experiencing spiritual abuse.
This is definitely interesting. I am a Christian, but I've definitely been interested in learning about other "Christian" type things like Catholicism and Mormonism, so your videos (I have loved the ones with ex-order members since that's how I found your channel) have certainly got me thinking. I also don't drink coffee or alcohol. The coffee because I hate the smell (my mom doesn't drink it and loves the smell except when she was pregnant with me, so I think that's where it comes from). And I used to drink alcohol a little but didn't like how I felt when I did, and stopped almost 10 years ago. I also used to love chocolate, but got sick and intolerant of it, and so now I can't have it at all, and I'm good about not having it, even when the temptation is there. So I do see what you mean about the "virtuous" side of having that self-discipline Shelise.
44:05 I didnt think religion would be an issue for hubby and I. I wasnt a practicing member, but when i was pregnant, my husband was deployed, i was desperate for community. My husband was not happy. Especially when he saw tithing come out the bank. I had her blessed. She was in my blessing dress and it was just she and I with basically a stranger blessing her. I didnt feel the spirit. I felt empty. And now that i have left i know why. I had signs for years to leave. My anxiety and depression is definitely stemmed from trying to be a member.
❤😂 OMG I love this episode!! I love all your shows but this one I’m laughing so hard I’m in tears! Thank you for sharing your story! You are definitely an inspiration!!
Being part of the "in group" is a requirement to be in my Mormon family of origin and included...even loved. I come from 7 generations of members, and am related to JS. Leaving betrayed my heritage, parents, extended family, spouse and even my own children/ family. Immediately upon becoming an apostate my family decided I did not live a "lifestyle " they "can condone", That's part of what they told me and they told me never to contact them again or I will be rejected. I'm the youngest of 10 kids and our father was a GA. After 17 years, one sister closest in age to me came two day's drive to see me. She drove those hours and was staying a couple of weeks at my home she said to have "sister time." So, I took off work, cleared my schedule, and made a list of fun things in my city that we could do and see while she was here. Then, the big day came and she arrived. For whatever reason, I could not have a conversation with her over he being on her phone and/or tablet and talking to her own daughter. We had dinner after her long drive and she only wanted to go to bed and sleep. Well, okay then, I figuress we had plenty of time starting the next day, so we all went to bed. Early the next morning I heard noise so about 5 am I got up and went to check on my sister. The guest room was empty and I saw her pulling her car out of my driveway...leaving! Gone. No explanation, no nothing. I went into my kitchen and discovered what the issue was. A friend had been over the week before and left her COFFEE maker in my kitchen! My TBM sister refused to be under the roof knowingly with a COFFEE maker!! Months later I spoke to that sister very briefly on the phone for her birthday. I felt a bit strange when I told her I loved her at the end of our call due to her rejection and my digust toward her, but I figured I'll still do my part of being a good person. Shortly afterward my mother called me and informed me my sister had been killed in a car crash in Utah, by a RM who was high on pot. My sister's husband and adult kids all said at her funeral that her killer broke the W of W and her death was the consequence of his sin. Also, HF exercised His will by allowing her death so some Utah man could have her lungs! Whatever! Anyway... that is part of my Mormon story and how Mormons are toward their Evil Apostate family members and others much of the time.
Wow! That is so awful. Thank you for sharing. It’s wild how “bigger sins” are lumped in with the same type of severity and judgment as drinking coffee…. I remember looking down on my family members for drinking chai tea 😂 but never confronted them about it. It’s now my favorite tea ever haha
My parents were both raised fairly christian but never fully believed and over time they lost whatever faith they had. When I was about 3-4 years old, my mom started taking us to a christian church and she said that we could stop going whenever we wanted to, and that we could believe whatever we wanted to. I am very happy with the way my parents handled religion because I was able to start thinking about god and higher powers, why the Christian god was a man and why people created in gods image we’re doing bad things. We probably went for about a year and then my sister decided she wanted to stop going. I think she just wanted to sleep in on Sunday mornings, but she wasn’t judged for it. I am 18 now and I have started a kind of second phase of thinking about philosophy, watching videos like yours are really helpful because they are from people who aren’t trying to convince me of anything or talk down to me. I feel like I can learn along with you.
I am in a mixed faith marriage. I am the one who left the church. Fortunately, my husband and I have made it beautifully. It's possible if folks accept each other as is.
Y’all are precious! Here’s my Mormon story…I grew up as a daughter of a career army officer. We moved 22 times in 12 years. I never went to the same school for more than one year until Daddy retired my junior year of high-school. It was not unusual to move 2 or more times in one school year. We were once posted on this out of the way boon-dock airfield that the Americans took over from the Germans. I was about 13 years old. I met a really nice girl at my new school which was a painful 1 hour bus ride (an army bus) to and from Post. She invited me to go ice-skating. It turns out that there was a whole community of Mormons that lived on Post. They evidently got together and practiced their faith without the oversight of the U.S. Army. The U.S. Army only offered Protestant and Catholic services. I suppose on bigger stateside Posts they offered Jewish services. Oops… I went on a tangent (too much information)…anyway, the Mormons took me in for the whole year. We went ice-skating, played softball, basketball, croquet, and I had the best time. I do not remember anyone pressuring me to come on over to the Mormon side of belief. Their little community took in a poor Protestant Episcopalian teenager and showed her how to have a great time without getting in trouble. My parents never worried about my safety because they knew that I was properly supervised in a wholesome atmosphere. So…I’m sad that they are a cult. I really wanted to meet Donny Osmond. 😂
After leaving Mormonism there are still some things I appreciate and one is that they do a good job of making things wholesome and family friendly. They can be exclusive, but they can also be inclusive. I'm glad they were kind to you.
I was brought up with just not being allowed to drink bear, being a catholic. I am now 72 years old, and I hate to even just smell beer. Likewise, I don't miss beer at all. So, if you don't like coffee because you were programmed to not drink coffee. Don't think You miss out anything essential.
Funny thing, I grew up eating bread. Found out I'm gluten intolerant and over the years have completely cut bread and wheat/white flour out of my diet. However, my family still eats bread. When I smell bread, I react with disgust. This is something I used to salivate over. Likewise with things like goldfish crackers. I tried one because I was sad I couldn't eat them any more and realized they aren't actually that good. Here's hoping I can do the opposite with vegetables.
Growing up in Prairie Canada, beer was a big past time. When I was 12, my big brother took me to a party for his friends because some of his friends' younger siblings were also my friends; the stuff I saw that night put me off drinking beer completely - fights, unprotected sex, lots and lots of vomit, dangerous and illegal stunts - that was a pivotal night that convinced me and most of my friends to never ever drink beer, or at least, to never get drunk. This was reinforced when at 16 a classmate of mine was mowed down by a drunk driver. I'm now 37 and since I got my drivers licence at 17, I was always called to go out because I was the de facto designated driver or hair-holder. If you don't grow up with certain mindsets or culinary exposure... you just don't miss it or crave it in your adult years. As 7/8s Chinese but growing up in a place that just didn't have much cultural variety or access, there are a lot of Chinese snacks and food I just don't like even after trying them.
There is a disconnect with logic here. First, you clearly link your abstinence from beer with Catholicism. In fact there is no such stricture in Catholicism, it was apparently a personal taboo imposed by your parents. Second, this doesn't speak to the absurd perversity of claiming drinking coffee is sinful. One of the most researched beverages there is, and the medical consensus is coffee is a healthy drink mainly due to its high content of nutrients and antioxidants, and potentially harmful only in large amounts...much like many other foods and beverages. Mandating coffee is sinful has one purpose...obedience indoctrination, typical of cults. So if one doesn't want to drink coffee from personal choice fine, then don't. As for me, that morning joe is one of life's cheap pleasures. After that first sip part of me feels sorry for mormons, but then part of me says if you are so stupid as to allow yourself to be persuaded that this is sinful, you deserve to be deprived of its simple pleasure.
Absolutely love this. ❤️ I am 24 and I stopped going to the LDS church my freshman year of HS, was being bullied by the church kids in "seminary" or whatever it was called and was forced to go to the church ever since we where babys. You have helped me immensely with finding the right words and realizing I wasn't the only one that had these experiences. Never thought some one would also think of the "Mormon" church as cult like!
Hi Angie! Thank you so much for your kind words and for sharing your story. I'm so happy that the video was helpful to you. It's taken me a long time to really find the words myself, and vocalize the issues that I have gone through after leaving. Yes, it's certainly a bright and shiny version of a cult. And the C word stings to a lot of people, but it really checks all the boxes of mind control that removes individuality, free agency and sovereignty. Thanks for tuning in!
I was bullied by the YSA in my 20s. The jerks never grow up.
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Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw your weakness out.
@@johnlee1352 Spoken like a true Mormon😂😂
Many people don't drink, Mormon or not, for many reasons. Never feel pressured into HAVING to drink. Love your videos!
Yeah! It irritates me that people need to justify why they don't drink alcohol! Should be the other way around.
I’ll drink, but I just don’t like many alcohol drinks. If I get a beer I’ll nurse it until I eventually throw it away. I’m pretty fortunate that I just don’t like it because I was raised in a family of alcoholics. When I was younger, we played drinking games so after a few minutes, the beer tasted like water. I’ve been drunk plenty of times, but probably not in 30 years.
I stepped away from the church 10 years ago in my 50s. I was a convert at 18 and very much a TBM. I don't like being around alcohol, I experienced a lot of drunk people throughout my childhood. I didn't leave the church so I could drink ... I had much better reasons, and yah, coffee tastes gross. I truly do respect greatly people who choose to not drink especially those who have walked away from a life of drugs and alcohol.
My bestie hates the taste of alcohol & doesn't drink. It's frustrating how much static she gets. She doesn't care if others drink, doesn't say a word. But people give her so much flack.
@@MrsW0f0rd thats exactly like me. i just can't stand the taste of any alcohol, i've tried many but i just can't get past that specific alcoholiness. and people are so weird about it, have literally lost friends over it and guys get weird about it on dates
Aw he’s like the ultimate hype man for you. Clearly so proud and supportive and wants to amplify what you do. You got a good one.
He really is!! I feel so fortunate to have him in my corner 🥰 thanks for watching!
Kudos to your fiance and his thoughtful support of you. When I left the JWs 14ish years ago, it was my husband who taught me how to be a feminist. Early in our relationship I was extremely demure, over-apologetic, under-educated, and asked permission for absolutely everything. Now, I'm an activist for women and queer rights, and I'm an English Teacher in a high school. My favourite unit to teach is Propaganda, to keep my students aware of cult strategies.
Hi Lyn! I'm so happy that you are advocating for women and queer rights. So important! Yes, my fiancé is truly a gem. Love him so much
You sound like an amazing person! Keep up the great work that you are doing! :D
Lyn, wondering if you include Multi Level Marketing in your Propaganda lessons?
@lyn - your relationship sounds beautiful, living with and loving someone so much that you encourage them to grow into their best self!
It's the kind of partnership I aspire to find and the type of partner I always aspire to be!
Thank you for allowing yourself to see and grow into the beatiful human standing for others and expanding minds of future generations!
How horrid that it's become commonplace to use the slur "queer" to label gays and lesbians. Awful.
Teach your kids about critical thinking and questioning EVERYTHING. There should be no sacred cows - that is certain things you cannot question. Apply critical thinking to EVERYTHING!
As a gay man, I find most religious institutions to be high demand, in that I consider renouncing homosexuality to be a high demand. Trying to force people to renounce who they are as people is cult mentality to me. I have stories from my Church of Christ background I could tell.
YES At church of Christ I was kicked out of morning bible study as an 11 year old for refusing to accept that Muslims were “our real enemies as Christian’s” .-. I am still not sure if that was just one dude that lead the study or if it was a belief held by more people. Another random thing, the pastor was made to quit but the reason wasn’t aired to the general people in the congregation and I still wonder what happened. When it comes to some churches it makes you assume certain things.
I agree and like the way you put it about renouncing who you are for the faith. I’m sorry for your experiences and hope you are doing better now!
Religion is all bollocks. It's a fairytale for adults who can't cope with the reality of life and death.
@@name.of.some.kind....😳
@@ryanehlis426 Are you sure your Bible translation is correct? Are you sure your religion is the correct one?
As someone who is in a relationship with an immigrant, I relate to the "ignorance" of pop culture a lot because we spoke different languages growing up and our pop culture was very different (French Canadian + South Italian), but just like your partner, I got to share movies with my partner and experience them for the first time through his eyes. It's a really magical moment that I feel very lucky to experience!!
Aww that's so nice! Thanks for sharing, Alexandra!
That's so funny. I have the exact same experiences with my husband who is 7 years younger than me. He just loves his new cultural references as we have more to talk about 😅
Currently experiencing this my partner is Indian and im from the south so we share a lot of things that make us up. For me its food and history mainly bc i hate most of the things the south offers. But he shares movies, dishes, music, culture, religion and it has been so much fun learning his first language and singing songs from Bollywood movies. Its soooo magical.
Oh my goodness!!! He’s so cute!! You guys make me so happy!! I love what you are doing with this channel. I was raised in the Pentecostal Church and so much of what I’m hearing on this channel is making me realize that I was also manipulated by my religion.
I’ve gone through so much, including being married to a man that was abusive and I would tell the leaders in my church and was told that I needed to pray that God would change MY heart! I was also rejected by my church, stripped of my leadership position when I finally threw him out and filed for divorce. I was vilified for finally creating healthy boundaries for myself and my children.
The hardest thing that I faced was 9-years ago my 17-year old son died tragically and I was constantly told that I was in sin because I had lost the joy of the Lord!! I mean, my son just died and I was judged for GRIEVING!!
Thankfully my new husband was supportive and encouraged me to go into counseling with a professional outside of the church. My counselor has helped me understand that my grief is completely normal and expected. That those around me that are struggling with my grief are 💯 wrong! My grief is my response to deep love and loss.
I still love the Lord and have found a safe place and a supportive group of Christian friends that have helped me heal. I still walk with the scars of being in an abusive marriage and the loss of my son. These friends have loved me in spite of my losses. I’ve found a church that accepts me and doesn’t judge me.
Your channel has forced me to confront my upbringing in a high demand religion. It’s hard to process these realities, but it’s helping me to understand why I am the way that I am. Thank you for providing a safe and loving place to face these realities.
I’m so sorry you were treated that way after losing your son. That was very cruel of them. They really don’t know Jesus or they’d never do that. I’m sending you a big hug.
Your reaction to 'oh tell me your trauma' built into the ex-Mormon label is how I feel about being raised in Utah as an Asian never-Mo. Oh, you're from Utah, are you Mormon, are you adopted, but then where are you really from, why did your parents move to Utah. Like dude...back off a bit we aren't friends yet. Also I love the way you and your fiancé communicate.
Oh wow! Those are layers I have never considered before. I can't even imagine. Thank you so much for sharing! It's so nice when someone else "gets it". Thanks for watching and supporting!
p.s. Jonathan is the best, isn't he? He's my person (swoon)
I'm just loving you! You're gorgeous, love your voice, personality, and most importantly, your journey out of mormonism. Your fiancé is a hoot! Thank you for doing these episodes, so helpful.
Awww that just made my day 🥰 thank you! I really appreciate your kind words. He certainly is. He’s always making me laugh. Thanks for tuning in! Check out the newest episode released today, all about sex 😜
I've just found your content and I am actually obsessed ❤ I can't believe you had 1k subs 8 months ago, and over 50k today Shalise! That shows how amazing your work is!
Aww thank you so much!! Welcome to C2C!!
I too just found you and free days ago and have been binging so much of your content love it and I see your channel is soaring.... Which is fantastic!! Thank you ❤️
She has 103K subs!
Today I see she's got 111,000 . I found her channel 2 days ago.
Shelise and Jonathan, I really really enjoyed this podcast. As I deconstruct or attempt to begin to deconstruct from being an active member of the LDS church for 40 years, it’s really helpful to get different perspectives and broaden my horizons by learning so much more that is outside the box. I look forward each week to a new episode. Sending love to you both.❤
Thanks, Donna! I'm happy you enjoyed the episode and found it helpful. I'm doing my best to add value and perspective to those watching. As always, I appreciate your support!
@@CultstoConsciousness I’ve been really enjoying the guests that you have been having on your TH-cam channel. It really does me a lot of good to listen and learn. To have relatable information shared is quite touching and important to me. You both are so cute together. I love it.
I am so grateful you have found each other on this crazy planet! 😍
You guys spark so much joy - here's to an almost always happy future 🍹
thank you!!
You guys are delightful to listen to.
You may not realize this, but you are probably helping to save lives.
Thank you so much.
Wow, thank you! Such a high praise comment.
What a wonderful thing to see you 2 together speaking up in such an intelligent and open minded way. I really feel like you will help millions!
Hi Shelise, I'm so sorry you haven't had more support from your extended family. I haven't had that experience from my family or friends, thankfully. I joined the lds church when I was 9 and my husband and I are now in our 40s, both served missions, etc., and have stepped away from the church. I've been very honest with different members of our ward and they've been so kind and respectful, including our local church leaders. My kids still want to go to fun activities, like the Christmas party, etc. and so we still do things like that and without any pressure to come back to church. I wish everyone's experience could be as smooth as ours has been! ❤
This is fun! This is the first time watching this video and your fiancé is now your husband. He is also congratulating you for 1K subscribers…you now have over 102K. Congrats on your growth 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
I loved how you described your 'restrictiveness' as a virtue! It truly is, especially when it's a choice made from your own free will. There's no need to drink alcohol, consume coffee, or eat animal products.
Just because we're all going to die someday doesn't mean we should mistreat our bodies, animals, or the environment!
I loved seeing how supportive your fiancé is of everything you do, but I hope he can come to fully accept your decision and recognize it as a virtue. No one should ever be pressured into drinking alcohol. Often, people push others to drink because they know it's unhealthy and don't want to feel guilty when they see you choosing not to. Same with veganism.
Love your channel and love to see how healthy your relationship seems. All the best to both of you!!
Look forward to the book. A lot of folks just getting on with their lives because of the people like you :) who do the work to help others get on with their lives. Thank you
Thank you so much for your support! 🥰 it means a lot.
LMFAO on the "soaking" ya'll crack yourselves up & I'm here for it!!!😂❤
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This is such a beautiful video. Shelise that was such a wonderful way to describe how it feels when people ask very personal questions in a very impersonal and uncaring way. I know that sometimes people's intentions are not that, but it can feel like we need to protect ourselves in that moment. Second. how lovely that you found love and your person!
In regards to the cult, that can also be considered grooming, when you look at the information, how it's given and the molding of behavior. I think that's why certain religions like to start young and with entire families. Oh the shame, the shame and guilt that they use against you.
Thank you! I agree about the grooming
This is a great video! With regards to kids, if you think of the questions and answers beforehand, you can easily teach kids morals and responsibility without a religious framework.
Great advice! We want a baby next year! 🥰
I like your podcasts, it's certainly engaging but your tone and manner of speaking is also very calming. Thanks a lot
Wow, thank you! That’s very kind 🥰
I haven’t even watched the episode, just the intro and already love it! I’m so happy to see people enjoy their life like this. Specially after having such a shame based childhood! I love this!
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I was raised secular, became religious, and 13 years later liberated myself. It was incredibly difficult to become religious and very difficult to leave it.
This is my favorite "Cults to Consciousness." How beautiful to see this HONEST discussion! I have learned so much from "Cults to Coniciousness." I thought I was "raised Mormon," but I have discovered that was not at all the story. My parents were an absolute In-the-middle-of-everything-one-WONDERFUL-BY BIRTH-MORMON!! and an "almost" non-member. They were also the absolute epitome what of a relationship-of-love should be. I know. I witnessed it. I am a poet and have studied wide and there was never a relationship like the one my parents had . . . have. Still . . . they were NOT "married in the Temple. I spent my youth watching "The Elect" in their homes, with relationships that didn't exist and abuse that did. I went home and saw the truth of what love could be . . . what love was, what love is. I loved watching this. Bless you both, with what I have to offer. . . with is plenty, as I am a woman who understands love.
Thank you! 🥰
Im on comment binge😂 but so happy you found such a thoughtful balanced man! My husband is ex mo and I can absolutely relate to this episode! Keep up the excellent work 💜
We love a good comment binge! 😂❤️🙏 that’s awesome!
New subscriber here (found you through your interviews with Growing Up in Scientology)… i just want to say that I love how comfortable you are being you and how open you are to others viewpoints .. I wish more people had your compassion for others walks… then we’d have such a better world
In my opinion it's all about using your intuition. If something resonates with you...that is your truth. Critical and logical thinking are so important also. Use your head and follow your heart. I'm also a ex-mormon.
I agree!
I agree. God can speak to your Heart, Mind and Soul (and also through intelligence)! A Favorite scripture of mine (D&C) Is that you must study things out (heart, mind, spirit). God speaks in many ways depending on how you hear him. Intuition, perception and discernment are important! Okay God Bless :)
I love your content, it's helpful to me on my journey and I imagine to lots of others. Congrats on the 1000 subscribers!
*also I work at a popular theme park where we put where we're from on our name tag. I have changed mine from Utah to Florida because I was so tired of the different interactions associated with Utah. Peace! ❤
Oh wow! Thank you so much for sharing! I'm so happy that you are finding it helpful. Thank you for the congrats also. It is so surreal that so many people want to tune in, and it makes all the hours of editing and recording worth it! Oh man, you feel my pain! Florida sounds like a fun place to hail from. Maybe I'll try it out next time haha
You guys are awesome! I'm so moved by your journey and by the mutual respect and support you and your fiancé have. During a dark and grim time in my life, this offers many rays of hope and sunshine.
Thank you so much!!
He forgot the part of the intro where you always tell people to be nice in the comments bc these are real people lol I love that you always say that btw. He did great! You two are so adorable together 🥰🥰
Very interesting. As a 64-year old woman who searched for a long time and went into many different religions (Christianity, Buddhism, Sufism, etc), I agree with almost everything you said.
I learned a few things along my way. Underneath all these religions, when you take away all humans added, the message is the same: it is all about Love. True mystic experiences in all different religions seem remarkably similar: we are all connected, we are all the same, we are part of a higher power, whether you call it God or Allah or The Universe. There is no single way to reach spiritual enlightenment.
What I also came to understand is that man introduced "specialness" into almost all religions. "Only we know the way", "anyone not part of our religion is doomed" and all such nonsense. Any religion teaching specialness (and almost all do) is something to run away from. Specialness is always an added human layer. I was lucky enough to come across something that taught inclusivity, connectedness, non-judgement and the ultimate sameness of us all. It was self-study as well, so that helped.
I also came to see that without any spiritual connection you can be quite lost. I raised me two boys outside of religion and to be good humans, which they absolutely are. However, I had to witness deep depression in them both as they didn't have an anchor. If you believe in God or any higher power, you have somewhere to turn in times of crisis. Looking back, I may have chosen a low-demanding religion and raised them in that, but even then there is no guarantee.
We live in an imperfect world and no matter how we think we can make it perfect by our decisions, it just doesn't work. Making peace with its imperfections may be the very best thing to do.
I really love your fiancé! You guys have such a great dynamic!!
TH-cam just recommended this one to me. It's adorable watching y'all together
As a vegan ex Mormon, it has nothing to do control or deprivation. I became an exMormon and then Humanist because of my curiosity. That naturally led me to question everything and educate myself on topics like big ag and food as a capitalist product. What lies were being fed to me for profit? After much research using information from organizations like the USDA, I decided I didn’t want any part of the horrible industry, but I’d never heard of veganism. Then I made sure I could thrive nutritionally and once that was confirmed, I never looked back. There’s just no need to torture, exploit and murder animals or exploit people and pollute our biosphere for animal parts and excretions.
20 years later, I’m still vegan and it’s really not that hard, especially now. The hardest thing is the prejudice you get from non vegans. A really fun movie to watch is the SciFi comedy, Carnage by British comedian Simon Amstel. It gives a quirky, irreverent look at the future when everyone is vegan.
Note that I drink coffee and socially drink alcohol. I’m not a big drinker of alcohol just because it does cause scientifically proven problems with organs and can cause physical dependence. But I don’t fear it all, it can be super fun occasionally.
I'm an ex JW and a vegan too for very similar reasons
Thanks for this! The prejudice is SO hard, when people look at you like a walking mistake or ignorant person for not wanting to eat animals. I've been trying out meat again and still don't know how I feel about it.
Honestly I wouldn't eat meat either (nor drink milk and eat 90% of American food). But even though I eat a lot less meat then before (and only from butchers who sell meat that really had a good life) I do still really like it 😳 but I don't see why people judge you for being vegan. I even cook it if I have too as long as I know a bit ahead that I have too 🤣 no but I really do admire it actually.
I personally have no issues with vegans. I dont like being put down because i eat meat. I believe its a personal decision and should be left there. I won't stop eating meat like you won't stop being a vegan. Let's just get along.
@@f.miller9522 Isn’t it interesting that I said nothing about you eating meat but you felt attacked and wrote “let’s get along”? I think that’s a reaction you might want to explore. This exactly my point of they hardest thing being vegan. Me just reacting to a comment about being vegan and sharing why I did, triggered you to feel judged.
You guys are so sweet together. And doing it as a couple makes it so peaceful despite the crazy suject that needs to be enlightning
This has been a pleasure!
honey, you found a good man. He is super insightful, intelligent and a great match for you. All power to you, folks!
Right?!! I love him. Two episodes coming next week talking about our wedding 😁
I grew up in Utah as a non-mormon. I remember kids asking me directly which ward I belonged to, and then asking afterwards why I wasn't Mormon.😮 Even adults asked me this, as a child. So yes, terribly invasive. Upon asking why I wasn't Mormon, I'd be invited to join them at church. Once I kindly refused, that was the end of the conversation. No interest regarding who I was as a person. On the flipside, you're almost automatically friends with non-mormons.
In middle school friends of mine invited me to the Mormon summer camp, EFY. I attended!! And the pressure is real and effective! I almost gave testimony with everyone else, even though I didn't even want to partake in the religion. Wild. That keeps me grounded. I didn't do it because right as I was about to stand up, the testimony period was brought to a close, thank goodness.
After the camp, I asked my friends to please stop talking w me about their religion but they couldn't. Our friendship fizzled out. They were fun to hang out with but I didn't like the constant conversion attempts. It felt disrespectful.
I'm somewhat thankful for my experience as I am almost phobic of group think scenarios, where the main group excludes anyone who is different, often without a second thought towards the other person's perspective. Since leaving Utah, I am averse to joining the "majority" of any context. I largely float around, for better or worse.
Luckily I've found a partner who floats similarly, never really landing or staying in any one scene, keeping everyone at a bit of a distance. I like but also hate it.
Being in different places what really effs my head is thinking I was so different from Mormons but seeing how much my style, beauty standards, world view, sensitivity to sexism, has been influenced by Mormon culture. I clearly come from Utah.
Something I'm happy my children might be able to participate in is block parties, not limited by religion. There were block parties when I was a kid but as a non-mormon I never felt allowed. And even if I were allowed, why would I want to go if the whole time I was seen as a potential converted member?!
Thank you for helping me to further understand and breakdown my experience as well as the possible perspectives of the people who made me feel so excluded and one dimensional.
You two are so cute, both seem like such genuine people ❤️ I love to see more sensitive, empathetic men with better communication skills these days. Yay!
I was 29 when I joined a different church. I grew up in the mormon church. My mother was raised in the mormon church and my dad Baptist. We went to both churches but mostly mormon where my mother's huge family held all the important positions. When my brothers and I reached 8 years old there was a lot of pressure on us and our dad to have us baptized. He said, no. We could choose when we became adults. We were all baptized at 19 although we were not active. All three of us are good people. We are not mormon. I am now 69 and born and raised in Bessemer/Birmingham, AL. Over the years, little things happened. We didn't have the internet as we do today. First crack was watching PBS in the middle of the night while I was rocking my baby to sleep, former mormons were being interviewed and talked about mormons believing and aspiring to be gods in heaven. I thought the former mormons were telling false stuff about the church. There were no temples in the south at that time. My family members either went to Utah, Washington DC or California to do temple work. I thought all that happened there was baptism for the dead and weddings. A few years later, my husband and I were traveling with our family and I was reading a book, called "Mormon Murders". As I read the first half of the book that told of Hoffman manufacturing documents and selling them to the church, I was puzzled as to why the church would want to buy this stuff that seemed so very weird, like the Salamander letter. When I reached a part in the book that described the ceremonies that took place in the church, I was dumbfounded and read it aloud to my husband. My husband looked surprised and asked me if JS was a mason. My husband is a mason and he said those are the secret rights of the masons. That was the end of my belief. I wondered around spiritually for a while. Years later, a friend asked me what religion I believed in. Episcopal but I was raised mormon. He exclaimed oh year the church of JS the seer. What??? Yeah, he used a seer stone to write the Book of Mormon. Again, what????? The internet was now a thing and I could look stuff up. Stuff written and podcast by other former mormons. All my life my favorite song at primary was, "The golden plates lay hidden, deep in the mountain side. Until God found one faithful in whom he could confide. A record made by Nephi, a Godly man of old. Now in the Book of Mormon the story is retold." It was a lie. Because, of the teachings of that church, I watch podcast by people like you, to asure me I am on the right path and not cast into out darkness. Make no mistake. It is a cult!!! Thankfully, you have a boyfriend who helps keep you focused on truth and what is weird. For years and even today, I have to research some things to understand their origins...the bible or the book of mormon.
Absolutely loving the both of you ,yes 💯 % Kudos to you both seriously! Totally resonates so much for me. My husband and I are the same with being open minded and here for the experience, also for our children letting them chose what they believe in for themselves while also sharing our beliefs with them also. Plus bring just awareness and making sure they know and are absolutely comfortable talking with us and coming to us with anything. Life is a process and we are all learning and growing together from one another everyday. To that it really makes the experience that much more meaningful.💜💚
I love that! Thank you for sharing
Here's another comment, beyond what I said earlier: you guys are going to make AWESOME parents! Your minds, hearts, and souls are in the right place, with clarity and compassion and wisdom in terms of your parenting plans. Your kids will be very blessed and fortunate to have you as parents. (On another note, kudos on being vegan and protecting the animals and the planet.) By the way, I e-mailed you two suggestions for guests for your show. They're amazing people, and so are you. You are a true source of light in today's darkness.
My husband was raised Catholic lite (they went for Holidays and his mom practiced, and he and his siblings went to Catholic private schools, but they weren't strict at home), we've been married over a decade now, and I still mention things that he helps me to unpack and figure out how I REALLY feel about it. I'm thankful for my ex-mo friends.
My mother used Mormonism as an example when explaining what a cult is.
You both emanate such a beautiful light! The love you clearly share is inspirational! Cheers to you both :)
Thank you so much, Joy! That means a lot! Smiling over here :D
I used to be Mormon, I am now Wiccan.
I have so many thoughts. Predominantly, that consent is important in all aspects of life, not just in sex. Sex without consent is rape. Religion without consent (or consent under coercion) is a cult. There are so many things in life that cross the line, not because of the act itself, but that the act is under coercion. It is perfectly fine to want to grow up to be a housewife. It is not ok to insist that anyone else grow up to be a housewife. It is fine to put restrictions on your own diet, but unacceptable to expect everyone to eat a restricted diet. There is so much of our culture (not just under a religious guise, but in the mores of our over-culture) that places demands on an individual under coercion instead of through persuasion and reason.
I also have thoughts on magical thinking. I think that everyone has magical thinking in some form or another. Even the most analytical of us have personal rituals that we use to effect the world around us in ways that can only be considered magical thinking. (Show me a lab full of scientists, and I guarantee you, you will find a troll doll or a shiny rock near a machine. "Don't take away that analyzer's doll. It will not work if you take away its troll doll") The thing about this is, we use magical thinking because our conscious minds are not able to analyze all of the variables that go into what seems to be random events. But our intuition is powerful, and will make connections that our consciousness does not. Magical thinking allows us to listen to our subconscious and pick up on what we are aware of, but not aware we are aware of.
There is a downside to this magical thinking. And I think that it is a downside many of us carry with us when we move from an organized religion into a spiritual one. We fall into the belief that we can control the world around us, just because we have become more adept at interpreting our minds signals. This slips into something of a "prosperity gospel" or "toxic positivity" mindset. We believe that if we believe hard enough we can manifest good things in our life. This is partially true. If we believe hard enough we can influence ourselves into making something come to be, that we could always have influenced. Unfortunately we then take that a step farther and conclude that if the thing didn't manifest it must have been because we didn't believe hard enough, when we really didn't have any influence over the situation at all. This can lead to a victim blaming situation, where if someone is struggling it is because they obviously aren't in tune with the spirits.
There is another aspect of organized religion which bleeds over into the new age religions. That is the Universe starts to sound a lot like another word for God. "I think the Universe wants me to do this thing", or "The Universe sent me this gift" are things I have heard countless times before. It takes some work to determine if the speaker believes that they have a close personal relationship with an entity that they call "The Universe", or if their phrasing is shorthand for "My circumstances for complex and indeterminate reasons seems to be pushing me in this direction", or "This gift has come into my life for unknown reasons, and I should take advantage of it"
Also, I have noticed that looking into the historical reasons for things brings light to a lot of interesting conclusions. I cannot help but wonder if the whole LDS church began as an attempt to move social darwinism into a religious context. Trends like insisting that People of Color (POC) were not allowed to hold the priesthood, and then not letting those people into the temple who were not ordained. That would put a big damper on interracial marriage. Add to that the insistence on Genealogical research and the push for large families would make for an effective eugenics program. Perhaps I am being too cynical. But I have questions.
Hi Becky! Wow! I absolutely loved your comments here. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I would love to have more conversations with you. Maybe even do an episode together. Send me an email at cultstosconsciousness@gmail.com if you are up for it!
I hope you two did connect, what a great conversation to have!!
Great show y’all! Such a fun couple. I’ve been out of the church since 1985. I’m still sweeping up cult crumbs, and staying current in the Mormon jargon so I can communicate best with my family who are still members. Someone has to keep these families together; the church isn’t. It’s important we stick together and learn to trust again. Shelise, you are a powerful force. I love how your energy brings all the other exmos together. It helps with the healing. It matters. Thank you both!
Aww thanks so much! We are putting out a couple episodes this week about our “not so Mormon wedding” haha that’s awesome that you are doing your best to keep the family together.
You guys are so gorgeous together, your energy together just pops out of the screen
I've just started listening but already know I'll likely be sharing this with my husband who didnt grow up mormon and can probably relate to Jonathan. Thank you for all you do and have done!!!
Your ideas about how to educate your future kids are the right ones. Communication teaches; hits and fear teach nothing. And please never end a discussion by saying "because I said so," no matter how tired you are from explaining the same subject over and over again.
One thousand subscribers when this aired and now it is 251 thousand. Well done. Great to see two people on the same page.
Thank you!
You're such a nice couple! I kind of feel like your partner is the more balanced (I really struggled to find the right word here...), with his live-a-little advice, but honestly I can see both sides. Enjoy your lives together!
Hi 👋 Shelise and Jonathan this was awesome. I dont agree with everything you but I agree with most of what you said. I must say you two have an amazing chemistry its easy to listen and understand what you are saying
So I might be obsessed with your channel and yall! Thanks for sharing these things!
Yay! Thank you!
For me, when I was fully invested in “THE Church” I looked at the rest of society as 2nd class…I know, disturbing! I actually felt sorry for the poor souls that didn’t understand what I understood. I wasn’t just brainwashed, I was also tumble dried!
When the “light” finally came on I felt (and still feel) used, gut punched and then tossed aside. Being raised so close to the trees🌲…When I (X member) finally stepped back to see the forest 🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲the shock was and is overwhelming! I feel knifed, betrayed and spat on!
Thank you for this! I am married to a committed Mormon. Being I am not, it has led to a few heated conversations & I struggle with A LOT of his beliefs. I am strong in my Christian faith but not “religious”. I am meeting with elder & sisters as much as I can BUT it has put some tension in my marriage. Praying to God to touch his heart & rescue him from the Mormon madness (with all do respect 😉). Not going to give up!!!!
How’s it going? I was a practicing and believing Mormon for the first 10 years of my marriage and my husband was raised catholic but is a nonbeliever. I never wanted him to feel like I was trying to convert him and it made me so uncomfortable when missionaries would show up unannounced and try to convert him and pry into our lives. It felt violating. He was understanding of my need to follow the religion and supported my choice to attend church, wear garments, and pay tithing on my own income. Now that it’s been a few years since I’ve been out of the church I think our relationship has gotten better because it’s no longer a concern of mine whether or not he would ever be interested in the church. I felt so much guilt for marrying a non-member against the teachings of the church.
@@valerieodonnell6764 My heart goes out to you! We’ve learned to accept each other’s differences. I do go to church with him once a month to show him Christian love & honestly, so I can pray over the church while I am there. We find where can come together and that is in prayer. We do pray together & alternate who is doing the prayer. We do plan to start a bible study together of the New Testament bring there are many things he didn’t know. I’m praying that Jesus, Himself, through God’s direct word will open his eyes. I pray for your relationship to stay strong & praying both of seek the TRUE Christ & His love through His grace. 💜
I think you perfectly summarize a basic kernel of truth in (social) anarchism at 13:40. Self-determination, opposition to coercion, and the freedom to develop and evolve in concert with other people.
This was a very informative interview for me. I will definitely not ask any probing questions if I ever meet an ex-Mormon. By the way, you two are sooooo cute!!
Aww thank you! We are releasing an episode about our wedding very soon 😁
Uff I guess this was my favourite episode till now! I have been watching all this videos as a Therapy process 😂 I grew up in a Cult, less religious cult and more life/health/believes Cult. It was really hard after growing up and leaving the community because we all got hit hard with reality and the perfect protected world we grew up in had nothing to do with what got thrown at us outside that Community. My ex husband bullied me about how I grew up and the one right now embraces it and helps me heal. Most of us who left ended up going back for not being able to integrate in the outside world. I don’t blame them! And it was not a horrible time there it was just not compatible with real life and you felt like it was made for you to fail outside of it so you would come back crawling… funny enough the Church we had was the most free and loving religious I ever met and I still say I belong to that religion, I just don’t share all the rest with them anymore. I became an outsider 😅 thank God!
You two are #lovegoals. Loopholes had me crying I was laughing so hard. You are both so aware of yourselves and others. It's a sign of intelligence- technical and emotional. When you struggle in your coupleship, do you ever return to these early videos to recenter? How amazing to have the ability to do so.
B -Behavior
I - Information
T - Thought
E - Emotion
Oh, I feel you with the whole "being from Utah = being Mormon".
I was born in Morocco but I'm an apostate, which is punishable by death so I ran away to France. And when I became a citizen I changed my name to Emma.
So I hate it when people I barely know ask me "How come your name is Emma but you look arab?". The answer to that invites too many questions that are just too personal.
So I have a BS answer for people I barely know. After all, it's weird to put the focus on someone's background like that when you've barely exchanged a 5 minute conversation (it's rude in France anyway)
But if we eventually do become friends, or if the person gets to know me before they ask me, then I say the truth but even then there's a lot of "mmm, it's complicated" because I don't want certain things to be generalized and end up hurting nice Muslim people, who are already vilified by all the narrative since 9/11...
So, really not simple!
Also, feel a lot of comfort watching your channel because most people you interview (and yourself) seem so together that it gives me hope to be healed someday! Blessings 🙏
Hi Emma! Thanks for sharing. Yes, it drives me crazy. Thanks for relating. I’m happy you are enjoying the channel! ❤️ there is so much hope for a better future
@@CultstoConsciousness Hi Shelise, thanks for your lovely answer 💕
If you want to discuss leaving islam, which IS a high demand organization, I'd be open to chatting with you...
Religion/beliefs are intensely personal. I am ex-Catholic and feel very free to have my own thoughts and beliefs. "Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it" Christopher Hitchens. That pretty much sums up my "religion." We don't need man-made, emphasize man, religion to be decent, kind, loving, giving, compassionate people. Christopher Hitchens, IMO, was one of the most "christian" persons I've ever known. He spoke all of his life about justice for the most vulnerable of this world. He exposed hypocrisy and outright lies. Whistle-blowers are my heroes/heroines. They tell me there is decency in this world/country. Best to both of you, a dynamic couple.
There's a difference between self control and rigidity. It's the thinking behind the behavior that makes the difference.
I'm in the middle of the video and I'm enjoying it so far. I was wondering if you have a video where you talk about your personal experience in the cult? I would love to hear your story
Hi! Yes I do! It’s the first video on my channel called “how to know if YOU are in a cult: here’s MY story” 😁
Awe omg I love seeing you guys together!!!! That hilarious laughter with the “soaking” situation 🤣🤣🤣 my husband and I have been together since I was 14, and I’m 34 now 😅 I cherish those moments of laughter because they are the best! He’s also witnessed my ah, quarrels (let’s be nice and say it like that lol) with Christianity. So he’s experienced some of the things that your husband has dealt with 🤣 it would be awesome to see another episode like this!
Im binging all your videos. I love your channel❤❤
Yay! Thank you!🥰🙏
This is so cute. I think if no cussing , coffee, alcohol or being vegan is the only thing you have to deal with you're good. All of these can be reached as an personality outcome with or without religion.
😁🙏
Love this video. Nice to meet your “Man to marry” he’s a really great person, profound happiness to you both. Your video’s
are very fun and informative. Great to see you are open to Buddhist thought . I have followed the Dharma teachings for 40 years
It has helped me to function in a world of craziness. Be Well and mindful.🙏☸️🤗
"Let it lie" and the visual has SENT me!
Hi Shelise, thanks for a this podcast. I’m embarrassingly honest sometimes, but I believe this time, because I’ll admit that *I was wrong* || I thought I wouldn’t enjoy this episode with your husband but I really did, hence why I feel like it’s ok to be honest even though I’m embarrassed of myself and my false assumptions.
Thanks to both of you 🌱
With kindness and respect, Grace
Watching this again as didn’t finish it! Absolutely love the relationship you guys have and how you are developing your channel to inform people so they can explore their own belief system and path! So glad I found you from the beginning ❤❤❤ ps love your necklace in this one! Is it a crystal as reminds me of malachite ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you so much!
I could relate to what you said about being in a cult. I was also in a cult that was less obvious. I didn’t recognize it as a cult until YEARS after I left. Even my family and friends say it was a soft cult or not one at all. It checks all the boxes like you said.
Everybody make some noise for the algorithm 📣📣📣📣
Lol I'm glad i found this channel.
Haha made my day! Thanks for being here!
I would love to hear more from you together. This was amazing.
I didn't grow up in a Crazy Fundie Religion. My upbringing was petty non-religious and atheist. And, I haven't eaten meat in almost 50 years. All kinds of motivation for all kinds of lifestyle choices.
On a separate note, I was vegan for a while. Sadly, due to having Hoshimotos Thyroiditis Disease, veganism made me really sick. The body aches, cramping, mental fog, and pure exhaustion all disappeared when I went to a Gluten-free, sugar-free, high animal protein diet. My ethics rejected it but, after feeling so bad for so long, my body embraced it thoroughly. Veganism can be a fad and can be done for the wrong reasons. For me it was simply because of my love for animals but, if it's making someone sick then it's not the answer.
You guys are so cute together. I love this convo.
It's hard for former members to explain to "never members" how truly weird the belief system is. In the end, it doesn't matter if you have good relationship processes; communication, trust, empathy, and sex.
Never been a member and i get how odd it is. Being raised as a believer in the Bible, i find it odd that a person can take that book, change it to fit a man and people follow. My hurt for others comes from seeing former mormons, loose their faith in God because they've been so screwed with mens false interpretations of God and who he actually is. That to me is the sin of those men. Causing so much pain in others that they leave God's love.
Oh, my goodness. I had to write this when you mentioned NOT knowing band names and popular figures. SAME!
😬🫠
I completely thought Soaking was a madeup thing on Jury Duty.
Im dying 🤣 right now
😂😂😂
I love the angelic tone of your voice. You should totally be one of the voices for a mindfulness meditation on Hallow or Calm.
I am a life long Episcopalian. I like it because their philosophy is attraction rather than promotion. Most of our sermons " ponder, think about this or that. Everyone can have their own opinion. You dont hear about many ppl experiencing spiritual abuse.
This was the best!!!! ❤❤ you 2 are so fun ❤️ 🤲 ❤️ 🎉
This is definitely interesting. I am a Christian, but I've definitely been interested in learning about other "Christian" type things like Catholicism and Mormonism, so your videos (I have loved the ones with ex-order members since that's how I found your channel) have certainly got me thinking. I also don't drink coffee or alcohol. The coffee because I hate the smell (my mom doesn't drink it and loves the smell except when she was pregnant with me, so I think that's where it comes from). And I used to drink alcohol a little but didn't like how I felt when I did, and stopped almost 10 years ago. I also used to love chocolate, but got sick and intolerant of it, and so now I can't have it at all, and I'm good about not having it, even when the temptation is there. So I do see what you mean about the "virtuous" side of having that self-discipline Shelise.
44:05 I didnt think religion would be an issue for hubby and I. I wasnt a practicing member, but when i was pregnant, my husband was deployed, i was desperate for community. My husband was not happy. Especially when he saw tithing come out the bank. I had her blessed. She was in my blessing dress and it was just she and I with basically a stranger blessing her. I didnt feel the spirit. I felt empty. And now that i have left i know why. I had signs for years to leave. My anxiety and depression is definitely stemmed from trying to be a member.
GREAT podcast/show! As an ex- cult child, I really appreciate all the views and experiences of others!
Thank you, Debbie!
❤😂 OMG I love this episode!! I love all your shows but this one I’m laughing so hard I’m in tears! Thank you for sharing your story! You are definitely an inspiration!!
Being part of the "in group" is a requirement to be in my Mormon family of origin and included...even loved. I come from 7 generations of members, and am related to JS. Leaving betrayed my heritage, parents, extended family, spouse and even my own children/ family. Immediately upon becoming an apostate my family decided I did not live a "lifestyle " they "can condone", That's part of what they told me and they told me never to contact them again or I will be rejected. I'm the youngest of 10 kids and our father was a GA.
After 17 years, one sister closest in age to me came two day's drive to see me. She drove those hours and was staying a couple of weeks at my home she said to have "sister time." So, I took off work, cleared my schedule, and made a list of fun things in my city that we could do and see while she was here. Then, the big day came and she arrived.
For whatever reason, I could not have a conversation with her over he being on her phone and/or tablet and talking to her own daughter. We had dinner after her long drive and she only wanted to go to bed and sleep. Well, okay then, I figuress we had plenty of time starting the next day, so we all went to bed. Early the next morning I heard noise so about 5 am I got up and went to check on my sister. The guest room was empty and I saw her pulling her car out of my driveway...leaving! Gone. No explanation, no nothing. I went into my kitchen and discovered what the issue was. A friend had been over the week before and left her COFFEE maker in my kitchen! My TBM sister refused to be under the roof knowingly with a COFFEE maker!!
Months later I spoke to that sister very briefly on the phone for her birthday. I felt a bit strange when I told her I loved her at the end of our call due to her rejection and my digust toward her, but I figured I'll still do my part of being a good person. Shortly afterward my mother called me and informed me my sister had been killed in a car crash in Utah, by a RM who was high on pot. My sister's husband and adult kids all said at her funeral that her killer broke the W of W and her death was the consequence of his sin. Also, HF exercised His will by allowing her death so some Utah man could have her lungs! Whatever! Anyway... that is part of my Mormon story and how Mormons are toward their Evil Apostate family members and others much of the time.
Wow! That is so awful. Thank you for sharing. It’s wild how “bigger sins” are lumped in with the same type of severity and judgment as drinking coffee…. I remember looking down on my family members for drinking chai tea 😂 but never confronted them about it. It’s now my favorite tea ever haha
The two of you laughing so hard that you can’t speak. So cute ❤
Great episode. Fun to see you with your fiancé and hear the inside thoughts and processes. Exmormon here in Idaho Falls.
Thank you! We have another one coming soon about our wedding and channel updates 😁 exmos unite!
I think you two are well on your way to a fulfilling future together ❤ Thank you for the tremendous laugh re:soaking 😂
Aww thank you so much! We did a whole episode together that we are putting out this coming week. Hope to provide more laughs 😁
I am looking forward to it! Best to you both 😘
how great that you guys found each other 💚 #beautiful
awesome episode!
Thank you so much!
My parents were both raised fairly christian but never fully believed and over time they lost whatever faith they had. When I was about 3-4 years old, my mom started taking us to a christian church and she said that we could stop going whenever we wanted to, and that we could believe whatever we wanted to. I am very happy with the way my parents handled religion because I was able to start thinking about god and higher powers, why the Christian god was a man and why people created in gods image we’re doing bad things. We probably went for about a year and then my sister decided she wanted to stop going. I think she just wanted to sleep in on Sunday mornings, but she wasn’t judged for it. I am 18 now and I have started a kind of second phase of thinking about philosophy, watching videos like yours are really helpful because they are from people who aren’t trying to convince me of anything or talk down to me. I feel like I can learn along with you.
I am in a mixed faith marriage. I am the one who left the church. Fortunately, my husband and I have made it beautifully. It's possible if folks accept each other as is.
Y’all are precious! Here’s my Mormon story…I grew up as a daughter of a career army officer. We moved 22 times in 12 years. I never went to the same school for more than one year until Daddy retired my junior year of high-school. It was not unusual to move 2 or more times in one school year. We were once posted on this out of the way boon-dock airfield that the Americans took over from the Germans. I was about 13 years old. I met a really nice girl at my new school which was a painful 1 hour bus ride (an army bus) to and from Post. She invited me to go ice-skating. It turns out that there was a whole community of Mormons that lived on Post. They evidently got together and practiced their faith without the oversight of the U.S. Army. The U.S. Army only offered Protestant and Catholic services. I suppose on bigger stateside Posts they offered Jewish services. Oops… I went on a tangent (too much information)…anyway, the Mormons took me in for the whole year. We went ice-skating, played softball, basketball, croquet, and I had the best time. I do not remember anyone pressuring me to come on over to the Mormon side of belief. Their little community took in a poor Protestant Episcopalian teenager and showed her how to have a great time without getting in trouble. My parents never worried about my safety because they knew that I was properly supervised in a wholesome atmosphere. So…I’m sad that they are a cult. I really wanted to meet Donny Osmond. 😂
After leaving Mormonism there are still some things I appreciate and one is that they do a good job of making things wholesome and family friendly. They can be exclusive, but they can also be inclusive. I'm glad they were kind to you.
I was brought up with just not being allowed to drink bear, being a catholic. I am now 72 years old, and I hate to even just smell beer. Likewise, I don't miss beer at all. So, if you don't like coffee because you were programmed to not drink coffee. Don't think You miss out anything essential.
Funny thing, I grew up eating bread. Found out I'm gluten intolerant and over the years have completely cut bread and wheat/white flour out of my diet. However, my family still eats bread. When I smell bread, I react with disgust. This is something I used to salivate over. Likewise with things like goldfish crackers. I tried one because I was sad I couldn't eat them any more and realized they aren't actually that good.
Here's hoping I can do the opposite with vegetables.
Coffee IS essential
Growing up in Prairie Canada, beer was a big past time. When I was 12, my big brother took me to a party for his friends because some of his friends' younger siblings were also my friends; the stuff I saw that night put me off drinking beer completely - fights, unprotected sex, lots and lots of vomit, dangerous and illegal stunts - that was a pivotal night that convinced me and most of my friends to never ever drink beer, or at least, to never get drunk. This was reinforced when at 16 a classmate of mine was mowed down by a drunk driver. I'm now 37 and since I got my drivers licence at 17, I was always called to go out because I was the de facto designated driver or hair-holder.
If you don't grow up with certain mindsets or culinary exposure... you just don't miss it or crave it in your adult years. As 7/8s Chinese but growing up in a place that just didn't have much cultural variety or access, there are a lot of Chinese snacks and food I just don't like even after trying them.
There is a disconnect with logic here. First, you clearly link your abstinence from beer with Catholicism. In fact there is no such stricture in Catholicism, it was apparently a personal taboo imposed by your parents. Second, this doesn't speak to the absurd perversity of claiming drinking coffee is sinful. One of the most researched beverages there is, and the medical consensus is coffee is a healthy drink mainly due to its high content of nutrients and antioxidants, and potentially harmful only in large amounts...much like many other foods and beverages. Mandating coffee is sinful has one purpose...obedience indoctrination, typical of cults. So if one doesn't want to drink coffee from personal choice fine, then don't. As for me, that morning joe is one of life's cheap pleasures. After that first sip part of me feels sorry for mormons, but then part of me says if you are so stupid as to allow yourself to be persuaded that this is sinful, you deserve to be deprived of its simple pleasure.
@@zachgarver7922 I don't disagree, but it is a bit more complicated for me to get my thought across, being not a native speaker.
I love your channel and am totally addicted! Thank you for sharing! Btw i love you 2 together!!