Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 2:00 - Neil Breen and Twisted Pair 9:43 - Old Movies 32:58 - M:I - Fallout 56:00 - Fantastic Planet 1:23:45 - Les Escargots 1:27:07 - Q&A Ralph's Recommendation for next episode is Punch Drunk Love (2002).
Dear Adam, some pre Citizen Kane films I highly recommend are *The Birth of a Nation (1915)* The first film epic and helped push the idea of cinema as an art form *Frankenstein (1910)* The first film adaptation of Frankenstein and one of the first horror films ever made *Dante's Inferno (1911)* The first Italian film ever made *The Phantom of the Opera (1925)* *Wings* The first film to win the Academy Award for Best Picture
I liked that part a lot. I look Alex as a guy whose thought I appreciate and he is a guy who doesn't give much of his side since there may not be much to say necessarily etc, but now his many words are being nullified, which is somewhat refreshing even if I didn't have much if anything against his perspective on the movie. Very delicious!
I think he was outmatched based on how much Ralph and Adam dominate the podcasts with their voices. I think if a guest was on like Chris Stuckmann, he wouldn’t have been as disadvantaged as Chris is on the same page as Alex.
If alex felt half as strong about it as either Adam or Ralph did then he would've spoken up more. But that's just not him. Hes a soft spoken dude who doesnt feel strongly about most things.
Movies from before 1941: Gone With the Wind Grapes of Wrath The Wizard of Oz Modern Times All Quiet on the Western Front Of Mice and Men It Happened One Night There are many amazing, well written movies before Citizen Kane. Many of them, like Grapes of Wrath and All Quiet on the Western Front, are very serious and “dark”. There’s also no instance of a lack of understanding story structure in them. Btw I like new movies and these movies I listed are all pretty popular.
A film like "M" is also fantastic and has a pretty good understanding of story structure without sexism. I like these guys but they were just speculating, forming opinions without actually seeing pre-Citizen Kane films.
ggr I would pretty much recommend them watching every film that was nominated for best picture in 1939. That year was ICONIC! Gone With the Wind, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, The Wizard of Oz, Of Mice and Men, that was a great year for cinema and a good starting point for getting into classic films
Old comment but it literally makes no sense to say "that's your opinion" about a debate where it isn't about opinions. Debates are objective and opinions are subjective, as in not to be argued or proven.
What does Adam mean when he basically says "Half the film is bad because its not action" I've seen it twice and its more like 20 minutes. The nuke scene at the start, the scene where he gets the package delivered to him, the scenes involving the CIA lady, learning the plan to take out the convoy and the last scene in the hospital. that's really it. Not a large part of the 2 and a half hour movie. This movie is almost non stop action, action that is being connected by 2 minutes of dialogue so it actually has a story. It's easily the best action movie this year.
@Luigi Nastro there's a difference between having an opinion on what the director intended and how well they pulled it off in the film and then stating the film doesn't work because it didn't play out how you thought it was or wanted it to A ghost story is a mesmerising film that (IMO) works and achieves what the film makers intended to achieve. Adam saying the movie should work without the ghost and is bad because of it is him wanting a movie to suit his tastes and not judging it based on the intent of the film maker And even then on a technical scale I don't understand what he didn't like about it. It's gorgeously shot and the sound is haunting. It's effective at creating an ominous long lasting atmosphere because of its technical aspects
SaberRexZealot It would have helped probably. Most of all these Sardonicast podcasts is Adam talking 80% of the time and bouncing off of Ralph and Agreeing with him, and Alex consequently gets left in the dark a lot. 99% of the time Adam never likes a big blockbuster movie, and I respect his right to opinions on those movies, but listening to him constantly complain about everything mainstream and comparing all big budget movies to a perfect art-house film standard is a huge turn off for me when I watch his content. Ralph isn’t as bad, but still pretty cynical at times in my opinion. I really love most of Ralph’s content though; it is very original and very funny. I just think treating the opposite side as a bunch of heathens (like this case w/ the MI: Fallout movie) is not the right way to go about things. If you disagree, talk it out in a civil manor and move on.
Brad Asbury Adam didn’t come across demeaning in his opinion at all. He was trying to articulate the way he felt about the movie to Alex and gave examples of what movies HE thought better displayed the qualities Alex was describing. If he didn’t justify his opinion he would look like an asshole. And it pisses me off so much when people try to write off his opinion by saying “he just holds everything up to an impossible standard.” Fuck off. Keep in mind he is a professional film reviewer. He can’t just walk into a movie and passively watch it without putting too much thought into his opinions. He has to make sure that he gets enough out of a film so that he can write a decent review. He has to be able to discuss aspects of the film like cinematography, writing, acting, directing, etc. because these are the most objective aspects of filmmaking. Some people want to know if a film has good writing or not. Because of this people act as if he is constantly comparing each film he watches to some unobtainable level of perfection. People don’t realize that he is a film reviewer and not just a personality that also talks about films. So just because he has to better solidify his opinion on films doesn’t mean he doesn’t give them a chance. A film reviewer watches a movie very differently then a film watcher. Keep this in mind next time you want to complain about your opinion of his opinion.
On the subject of old(er) movies, I do find it very stubborn when people refuse to watch them just because they're older. I have a friend to whom I recommended some older movies and she just refuses to even watch them 'cause they're a bit older, and I'm not even talking about the "pre-Citizen Kane" era, but movies from 70s or 80s even. That sort of attitude annoys me 'cause you really are missing out on a lot if you limit yourself just to 2000+ movie and the arguments are rarely justified.
Joker341Plays I used to be that exact person, I preferred not to watch things older than the late 90’s, and I was so wrong. Now, there are too many great older films to name. Brazil is one of my favorite movies now, and I would’ve never found it if I didn’t allow myself to watch older film. You just need to find an older film that will become one of her favorites to show her there’s great old stuff out there.
If that excuse can be used for everything, my comment was a joke too, and so is this one. Pd. 100+ likes in a quote from the video is quite the joke, so I'm guessing you are right.
Audrey Albritton and don’t forget timeless gems such as Gotti, The Fanatic, The Bye Bye Man, Sleepless, Epic Movie, Meet the Spartans, Disaster Movie, Little Panda Fighter and especially The Haunting of Sharon Tate and Reprisal
"cinephiles" who only watch the popular good movies are basic af. People like Alex, Adam, and Ralph are unironically more accurate examples of a cinephile than any other pretentious a-hole you could think of.
Pretty annoyed at the way Adum and Ralph handled that MI:Fallout argument (constantly talking over Alex and dominating the conversation to the point of unfairness) but the heated back-and-forth on the ethics of piracy made up for it
@@dirrdevil His argument had tons of flaws. The idea of if they werent going to watch it unless it was stolen so its ok is a horrible justification. I wasnt going to eat this food unless it was stolen and given for free. I wasnt going to were these cloths unless someone stole them and gave them for free. If you want to see something you have to pay for it.
Tech Lantern ik this is old but i need to ask you this: if you were to invite friends over to watch a movie you own, would you make them all pay for a copy of the film before letting them watch it?? what adam is really trying to defend here is the potential benefits that piracy bring when a film isn’t accessible to people. as a filmmaker, you have 2 options when your film can’t be viewed by most of the world: you are either stubborn and hope that film will make enough money back through limited theater releases and limited home releases OR you let the pirates basically handle distribution that you DONT EVEN HAVE TO PAY FOR and potentially reach a bigger audience that will most like not only support THIS PROJECT but upcoming projects in store. in a way, i see piracy as free advertising!!! if you still dont see the justification to this, answer me this: is it right for a person to use a free trial, use all of it functions and stuff, and never pay for the program after the trial??
@@thesinistervoid4311 For nearly all free trials you never get the full experience of the thing. They're designed to give you just a taste of the product. The largest problem with your system is that your drawing the massive assumption that the pirates will : A) Not forget about the piece of media and move on to consume the next, or B) Have a sudden change of heart and not pirate the creators next project. Its not "free advertising" because they actually had to pay the thousands to make the actual film. If you can't fork over the 3 bucks to rent the movie to filmmakers that are just trying to break even, you flat out aren't supporting them. Its like going to a struggling restaurant with like a group of 20 friends and then after you've had the full meal you leave and not pay, claiming you promoted the restaurant to 20 new customers. There's zero guarantee that any of them will come back at all, and now the restaurants is just in even more debt. While I will guarantee that making potential viewers go out of their way to buy the film may reduce visibility, stealing is not the option. A better solution that I've seen is the creators do a crowdfunding campaign after they've made the film and if it makes enough money to break even or whatever, they just release it for free. Bottom line, the creators have to eat somehow. Time Heideckers short video on piracy: th-cam.com/video/njiM6ubf2PQ/w-d-xo.html
Intro - 00:00 Neil Breen and Twisted Pair - 2:00 Old Movies - 9:43 M:I - Fallout - 32:58 Fantastic Planet - 56:00 Les Escargots - 1:23:45 Q&A Section - 1:27:07 What was the worst horror movie that managed to genuinely scare you? - 1:27:24 Who’s your favorite character of all time? - 1:31:06 How do you guys feel about movie pirating/torrenting? - 1:33:56 Ralph’s Recommendation (Punch Drunk Love) - 1:53:11
Not that anyone gives a shit, but here the best films of each decade in my opinion. I guess the first 2 decade lists can serve as recommendations for Adum as well. Pre 30s: - Intolerance (Griffith) - The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene) - Battleship Potemkin (Eisenstein) - The Gold Rush (Chaplin) - The General (Keaton) - Metropolis (Lang) - Sunrise (Murnau) - The Passion of Joan of Arc (Dreyer) - Man With a Movie Camera (Vertov) - Un Chien Andalou (Buñuel) 30s: - City Light (Chaplin) - M (Lang) - L’Atalante (Vigo) - Modern Times (Chaplin) - La Grande Illusion (Renoir) - Bringing Up Baby (Hawks) - Gone With the Wind (Flemming) - Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (Capra) - The Rules of the Game (Renoir) - The Wizard of Oz (Flemming) 40s: - Citizen Kane (Welles) - The Magnificent Ambersons (Welles) - The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Powell) - Casablanca (Curtiz) - Double Indemnity (Wilder) - Children of Paradise (Carné) - It’s a Wonderful Life (Capra) - Bicycle Thieves (De Sica) - Late Spring (Ozu) - The Third Man (Reed) 50s: - Rashomon (Kurosawa) - Sunset Boulevard (Wilder) - Singin’ in the Rain (Donen) - Tokyo Story (Ozu) - Seven Samurai (Kurosawa) - The Searchers (Ford) - 12 Angry Men (Lumet) - The Seventh Seal (Bergman) - Vertigo (Hitchcock) - The 400 Blows (Truffaut) 60s: - L’Avventura (Antonioni) - Breathless (Godard) - La Dolce Vita (Fellini) - Psycho (Hitchcock) - Lawrence of Arabia (Lean) - 8½ (Fellini) - Andrei Rublev (Tarkovsky) - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Leone) - Persona (Bergman) - 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick) 70s: - A Clockwork Orange (Kubrick) - The Godfather (Coppola) - Chinatown (Polanski) - Barry Lyndon (Kubrick) - The Mirror (Tarkovsky) - Nashville (Altman) - Taxi Driver (Scorsese) - Annie Hall (Allen) - Apocalypse Now (Coppola) - Stalker (Tarkovsky) 80s: - Raging Bull (Scorsese) - The Shining (Kubrick) - Blade Runner (Scott) - Fanny and Alexander (Bergman) - Brazil (Gilliam) - Ran (Kurosawa) - Blue Velvet (Lynch) - Platoon (Stone) - Wings of Desire (Wenders) - Do the Right Thing (Lee) 90s: - Close-Up (Kiarostami) - Goodfellas (Scorsese) - Schindler’s List (Spielberg) - Pulp Fiction (Tarantino) - Satantango (Tarr) - Three Colors Trilogy (Kieslowski) - Breaking the Waves (Von Trier) - Fargo (Coen) - Fight Club (Fincher) - Magnolia (Anderson) 00s: - In the Mood or Love (Wong) - Mulholland Drive (Lynch) - Oldboy (Park) - Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry) - Caché (Haneke) - Children of Men (Cuarón) - No Country for Old Men (Coen) - There Will be Blood (Anderson) - Zodiac (Fincher) - Synecdoche, New York (Kaufman) 10s: - The Social Network (Fincher) - The Tree of Life (Malick) - Holy Motors (Carax) - The Master (Anderson) - Her (Jonze) - Birdman (Iñárritu) - Boyhood (Linklater) - Whiplash (Chazelle) - Moonlight (Jenkins) - Blade Runner 2049 (Villenueve)
On the piracy issue you just described my entire country, Australia. If good media wasn't region blocked or given to delayed releases then piracy wouldn't be the national sport it is over here.
They segment and restrict access to art, then say you’re not allowed to access that art through any means which is not completely legal? Australia gets it so bad considering how poorly distributed good films are in this country. I’m lucky I live in Sydney and have access to some decent theatres and whatnot but our general film market is terrible.
Michael Man2000 that's most likely the case lol, I like to think he added a twin because he couldn't think of a way to glorify his characters any more than he already did Like he was a superhuman/god in his other films, the only way to add onto that is to have two of them right lol
This is disputable, but I’d say that while Gone With the Wind uses the point of view of a female, but I wouldn’t consider her the protagonist, just like how Emma, in the book of the same name, is privy to the primary actions within the book, but doesn’t actively affect things. But hey, this is cinema, everyone can have their own opinion. I do agree that Wizard of Oz undeniably uses a female character as the protagonist, which is undeniable, as she plays a very active role within the movie.
Watch Sabotage by Alfred Hitchcock. It came out in the 30s. Its a well told story with really great acting and some dope visuals as well. Its no Citizen Kane but the outcome of that movie is very dark for the time.
Ian Smart That's a good one...I love Hitchcock films tbh. For 1939, I'd also recommend Mr. Smith goes to Washington, or gone with the wind, ... purely for that last monologue. I think for people that aren't familiar with old films those are good starting points
I feel like Adum is getting better at taking criticism, and understands why people would disagree with him. Ralph is less annoying in this one. Alex and Adum are always awesome.
I think it's literally why Anthony was my favorite guest in this podcast. They're all very dynamic and their idea of what can be good can sometimes differ a lot. Anthony, although, is actually a very well spoken person when it comes to how one person might FORM their opinion and where they come from. Adum is better at it lately and Alex is coming out of his shell in sorts. Wish they'd bring Fantano back on though.
For the Sardonicast Bingo: -Alex is right and Adum and Ralph are wrong about sth -Someone screams sth like "Oh Boy!!" or "Yeah!!" very loudly -Adum says "Eh"
love that discussion on piracy because it's so true. I have a friend who's good friends with a hollywood star and even she says to my friend that she's glad she pirates because otherwise no one would see the show she's in right now because it's not on tv here and this just gives the show more publicity and fans
I watched that interview and kind of immediately forgot about it. Other than Cera's secret rivalry with the one kid that always got cast in commercials.
@@MaleTears his heart was about to stop and this was the only thing that would keep him going but since he never responded to you it seems he didn’t survive long after when this vid was released
the camera techniques were a big part of what made Citizen Kane so influential. they literally dug out the floor to get the super low shot on the characters for that one scene (sorry haven’t seen it in a bit) and the shot with the focus on the characters talking inside as well as Kane playing with his sled through the window utilizing deep focus is pretty important too. glad you enjoyed Metropolis too. keep up the videos, guys
> one of the first mature rise and fall stories You should check out The Greed (1924). Also, the story behind that film is as interesting as the film itself: one of the first disputes between the studio and the director that went really big. Also, Citizen Kane wasn't that groundbreaking in terms of being grounded or serious at all, to be honest. It was rather an example of everything already known being polished into a 'perfect' (for its time) film, not something that has never been seen before. Damn, Angels with Dirty Faces or the old Scarface were more than competent in all this, from writing to depiction of the everyday life. And Gone With the Wind was released 2 years earlier than Kane. Even M you mentioned here still has stunning cinematography and a plot that can be easily adapted into a modern detective thriller. Seriously, guys, go watch some old films. It's worth it. (also, I'm 23, just saying)
"Women in every movie pre-1970 is like just the wife and that's it." Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. That's more true post 1970 than it was pre 1970. Look at the careers of Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Janet Leigh, Katherine Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn, Elizabeth Taylor, Judy Garland and others. There used to be female leads in movies that were actually good. On top of that look at any noir film for a woman that's not "just a wife and that's it" This is a ridiculous, and often weponized, misconception that needs to be stopped.
Andre Moreau yeah except the role for a woman in a noir film is to fuck or betray the male. Just like all wome-- oh wait. That's your example?? Please look up the male gaze
kamalindsey How did asking someone to look up the concept of 'the male gaze' translate into an over-arching accusation of all men? Me thinks thou dost protest too much...
Right! Are the like completely unaware of Julie Andrews?? Because she is DEFS not just a wife in the Sound of Music (one of the best selling films of all time????) Made in the 60's???
Judy Garland? Really? She was treated like crap her whole adult life. She got shit for trying to break out of her "little girl" image Hollywood had of her
Thank you all for doing this. I've been following all of you individually for what feels like years, and through you sharing your passion you've inspired me to persue (can't spell) filmmakeing, truly thank you.
the piracy debate is the exact same when it comes to video games. adam is absolutely right that most people pirate stuff just to try it and they will buy it afterwards if they like it
I completely agree. Adam had a way more nuanced argument than Ralph who was just restating the same thing over and over. There is definitely a grey area there, but I swing more to Adam's side.
The biggest reasons they don't buy them is because they can't for one reason or another. Convenience is the biggest issue here. Something like Netflix or Amazon Prime eliminate most of the inconvenience.
So in Ralph and Alex's mind, the movie doesn't blend the line of being interesting and an intentional product well enough. This isn't actually about the CREATOR'S intent, more so the tonality that they draw from the film. You, Alex, even I may find it significantly more engaging because we see it less with a critical eye and albeit less foundational knowledge on some lesser known movies or movies that replicate similar formulas. The moments where it lulled may have been a bit too familiar or comparable to other movies, while in this case we might enjoy it because of the standards with which we have for Hollywood, big budget films. Considerably better and overall a decent product given the constraints of having to appeal to MANY people in an established cinema framework.
It's like if you taste every food known to man, and you find some good shit and you're kinda sick of always eating spaghetti. To many, spaghetti will always be spaghetti, but to you, you may want to try something different or something never before tried.
While I commend Adum for going out of his way to address criticism of his "pre-Citizen Kane" comments and watching Metropolis, and while I do recognize that at the very least narrative structure was absolutely honed in a way it had not been before in Citizen Kane, I still feel as though his limited exposure to 20s to 30s cinema is stunting his growth as a cinephile or whatever you wanna call it. Metropolis is one movie. And a silent film on top of that, the rules of which are markedly different from what sound entails. I highly recommend Fritz Lang's follow up, M, as well as the original Scarface and early Hitchcock films like the 39 Steps and especially The Lady Vanishes. The likelihood of him seeing this is slim to none, but I was going back to old Sardonicast episodes and felt the need to post this when this came up.
Ohhh boy, I was raised on "pre- citizen kane" films and boy was that conversation they had fascinating. I really want to know what films they've seen so I could possibly recommend some. (Edit) Although sexism is prevalent within older films that isn't to say that their aren't stronger independent female characters off the top of my head Scarlett O'hara from gone with the wind comes to mind.... she definitely wasn't the doting housewife... Almost any character played by Bette Davis... Then there was Eve Harrington from All About Eve. And finally the main character from Snake Pit, Virginia Cunningham I think she's pretty tough too.
AGREED! In my opinion, Gone with the Wind has the best writing & character work of any film! Cause when you really think about it, Scarlett O'Hara is a terrible, narcissistic, bitch who's main goal throughout most of the film is to steal her best friend's husband. But because the writing, directing and Vivian Leigh's acting is so fantastic, you end up sympathizing with her and even rooting for her!
This guy you just responded to clearly stated that sexism is prevalent in older films. Racism can also be found all over in varying degrees (Blaxplotation?). Sorry not sorry, that's reality, whether you like it or not.
Nicolás Fernández Boo hoo. I just appreciate the film for it's merit in filmmaking instead of moral fagging over how people were 70 - 115 yrs ago. How dare movies in the 1930s not have more diversity and wamens!
Jackson Roze Reviews I definitely agree with you! I hope Ralph and friends sit down and watch it sometime. Scarlett O'hara is one of my favorite movie characters of all time, watching the world around her change her into an adult and her fall in love with the land! Not to mention, that ENDING!
Ralph When I was a kid I could afford 1-2 games per year, the rest I pirated. It was piracy, or miss out on a cultural zeitgeist that has meant a great deal to me. After growing up and earning a salary I started buying new and old games on Steam, because I wanted to 'own' them. Now I have 300+ games on Steam. Including Final Fantasy 6 for PC which is probably the 3rd time I've repurchased that game.
Old comment but he was giving blanket arguments "oh it's stealing movies" and not seeing Adam's point. Then has to resort to "eh it's your opinion" when it is a discussion where it isn't about opinions or subjectivity. Should be "agree to disagree" not opinions.
I would love to see what Adum thinks about The Big Sleep or The Maltese Falcon or Double Indemnity. Not technically pre-Citizen Kane, but I think still old enough to qualify for Adum's classification of "old movies." They've got crazy storylines, great characters, and are great feats of story telling.
I agree with Adum, btw. Piracy doesn't impact the "industry" that bad. Just off the top of my head, even if I don't pay directly for an anime series that I watch (and considering crunchyroll is shit), I will still go through all the hurdles of importing the blurays and maybe also buy (a lot of) merchandise from the creators of said series. Piracy is not that bad if it incentivices companies to offer better products (aka. get your shit together streaming services).
Old film recommendations: The Phantom Carriage 1921 (has some of the most beautiful performances in a silent movie) Battleship Potemkin 1925 The Passion of Joan of Arc 1928 Earth 1930 (on TH-cam) The Goddess 1934 (on TH-cam) Ordet 1955 Just a short list of extremely important silent movies + Ordet.
Old movies: try and watch Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans and The Cabinet of Dr Caligari. Both are silent movies and they are so good. Also I Walked With A Zombie is such a great old horror movie with some pretty interesting social commentary.
Honestly I do love watching older movies in a sense that Im intrigued by how they used to think back then and how they achieve shots and techniques Especially old western and foreign films too just as much as anything In the summer I marathoned a slew of Older films I wished to watched for a challenge and it was hella fun That’s how I see it
There's plenty of great pre-Citizen Kane movies, It Happened One Night, Gone With the Wind, Freaks, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Nosferatu, The Lady Vanishes, You Only Live Once, Wizard of Oz, the Universal horror films, Fritz Lang's films as was mentioned, anything from Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton. It's not like Citizen Kane was the first great movie, it was however extremely innovative and even revolutionary in terms of techniques, not so much in terms of storytelling/structure, but in terms of literal film craft, cinematography, and the filmmaking process
there’s a conversation in the film community about whether or not its worth it to go to film school. I’d have to say that the film history courses I took in college were great value in navigating the subject, and can be kind of difficult to do yourself. I am definitely grateful to have had so much guidance in that regard.
The history of Metropolis and how it was almost lost is fascinating, I highly suggest reading about it. It makes watching the movie more interesting to watch.
Alex seemed so bullied lol. And Adum, there were distinguishable occasions in MI: Fallout that were intentionally self aware. Henry Cavil literally says that people falling for the mask is bullshit. And at the end of the film when Ethan was asked "How close were we?", he just replys with "The usual." I think the film was perfectly acknowledging what it was.
Serial Ape-ist I agree. Also there was the chase scene in the church right before the rooftop running part where Ethan is being chased and he is asked who is chasing him. He said something like"CIA, apostles, does it really even matter?" A great moment of self awareness that made me chuckle and makes fun of the goofy plot. I feel like Adum and Ralph didn't even watch the movie?
There are more examples of narrative cinema other than Fritz Lang talkies. German expressionist cinema and golden age Universal monster movies were adapting folklore and novels before Citizen Kane as well. What Orson Welles innovated on was the scope of cinema as an art form as well as a popular enterprise. Few films at that time played with editing and rich, realistic set designs as this movie. Also, its narrative arc spans a lifetime which was pretty unique at the time as well. Most notably, however, is probably its use of non-linear narrative structure with the narrative end occurring at the opening of the film.
I’m working through older film right now, whereas I used to say I hated old film and wouldn’t watch it, 2001 was the oldest film I had seen until recently, not including The Wizard of Oz. In terms of older film, I have a preference for post war film (like The Red Shoes, Citizen Kane, 12 Angry Men, or Casablanca which may well be a masterpiece, made in 1942,) but Freaks (1932) and The Passion of Joan of Arc (1927) are the greatest pre war films I’ve seen and you should check out if you haven’t.
Pirating is not even close to stealing. If I stole Adam's car, he no longer has use of said car and cannot sell the car for profit. If I download a digital copy of a Micheal Bay film, Michael still has the original digital file and the ability to continue making profit off of said file. By Ralf's logic, there should be some sort of licensing fee if someone consistently brings friends over to watch a certain movie. When does it become theft? After he has shown it to 10 people? What if he manages to show it to 100 people over time? Assuming it's a 20 dollar blueray that is a potential loss of 2000 dollars in sales.
FUCKING YES! A movie that I really love and a movie that I have wanted at least one of you to talk about, now you're all gonna talk about it. Thank you Ralph for recommending Punch Drunk Love.
On the piracy thing, there's also the issue of geographical distribution. I can sure as hell tell you that a lot of indie, foreign or rare films never make their way in physical form to smaller countries. So the only solutions you really have are either take a trip to a neighbouring large country where you don't actually have a guarantee to find what you're looking for or order it on Amazon or some other website, where it might take up to one or two weeks to arrive. At that point, piracy just is a lot more convenient.
There was a video that was up since 2006 where Rene Laloux’s Les Escargots was synched up with The Pot by Tool. Original video was taken down and was reuploaded by someone about a week ago (August 13th)
The oldest film I've seen was this obscure short film from 1905 where a guy was shaving, in the film he starts eating his shaving cream and starts seeing weird shit in the mirror, it's brilliant actually
Jackson Roze Reviews I'm not too into very old film, but Wizard of Oz is iconic. Didn't even realize it was older than Citizen Kane until I looked it up
I think it's ok to pirate corporate cash grab movies like Pacific rim uprising, the emoji movie or skyscraper, that you know will be bad, but you're curious as to how bad it is
Nothere27 Just because someone already has a lot of money, doesn’t mean it isn’t stealing if you take something from them without compensation. Those same people in their big houses happen to pay people who perhaps live in smaller, more median houses. So in a way, aren’t you stealing from the little guy, or any relatively normal-income staff from a movie production? The boom-guy, the makeup artists, the extras?
Hey, if you wanna pirate movies though, like I said, I’m not gonna try to stop you. I just think that stealing is morally not within my realm of choices.
As a film critic the first thing you need to watch that I doubt anyone would dispute is Man with a Movie Camera. Not gonna say I love it but it is necessary viewing. If you want to critique cinematography it's important to have a timeline of technique development. If a criticism you often make is 'this isn't original' or 'this brings nothing new to the medium' you kinda need to know what's new.
Citizen Kane revolutionized the moving camera. I saw an interview with Scorsese and he was talking about how the camera was more of an observer in Pre-Kane, and with Kane, Orson Welles wanted to be more self aware with the camera with scenes like how Welles ripped a hole in the floor to set the camera in it. I've started to dive into pre kane myself and I'm really excited, I watched John Ford's Young Mr. Lincoln from 1939 recently and it was awesome.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [TEASER MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VC689EgdSIw/mqdefault.jpg)
Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
2:00 - Neil Breen and Twisted Pair
9:43 - Old Movies
32:58 - M:I - Fallout
56:00 - Fantastic Planet
1:23:45 - Les Escargots
1:27:07 - Q&A
Ralph's Recommendation for next episode is Punch Drunk Love (2002).
Sardonicast talk about 8th grade
I agree with yms with the piracy:p
Dear Adam, some pre Citizen Kane films I highly recommend are
*The Birth of a Nation (1915)* The first film epic and helped push the idea of cinema as an art form
*Frankenstein (1910)* The first film adaptation of Frankenstein and one of the first horror films ever made
*Dante's Inferno (1911)* The first Italian film ever made
*The Phantom of the Opera (1925)*
*Wings* The first film to win the Academy Award for Best Picture
Sardonicast mm
Jar Jar Binks Bo Burnham
Sardonicast is listening to two guys having a conversation while IHE silently judges them
and i wouldn't want it any other way
Right on the nail.
Agreed
This is the best comment
twisted pair is actually a documentary on testicular torsion
+Billybobbillerson
*OUCH!!*
I was about to make this exact joke you fucker >:^(
Everytime I read the word testicular torsion I whince
Billybobbillerson literally exactly what I was thinking when I heard the title
I was the first one to make this joke on the trailer. lol
Felt bad for Alex during that Mission Impossible argument. Ralph and Adam just weren't having it.
I liked that part a lot. I look Alex as a guy whose thought I appreciate and he is a guy who doesn't give much of his side since there may not be much to say necessarily etc, but now his many words are being nullified, which is somewhat refreshing even if I didn't have much if anything against his perspective on the movie. Very delicious!
I think he was outmatched based on how much Ralph and Adam dominate the podcasts with their voices. I think if a guest was on like Chris Stuckmann, he wouldn’t have been as disadvantaged as Chris is on the same page as Alex.
If alex felt half as strong about it as either Adam or Ralph did then he would've spoken up more. But that's just not him. Hes a soft spoken dude who doesnt feel strongly about most things.
PacifistBetaFish You haven't listened to jarcast, my dude.
But doesn't Ralph like Transformers? Oh I forgot he's into art wank movies now. Got to keep up with the times.
Movies from before 1941:
Gone With the Wind
Grapes of Wrath
The Wizard of Oz
Modern Times
All Quiet on the Western Front
Of Mice and Men
It Happened One Night
There are many amazing, well written movies before Citizen Kane. Many of them, like Grapes of Wrath and All Quiet on the Western Front, are very serious and “dark”. There’s also no instance of a lack of understanding story structure in them. Btw I like new movies and these movies I listed are all pretty popular.
ggr This comment deserves more recognition.
A film like "M" is also fantastic and has a pretty good understanding of story structure without sexism.
I like these guys but they were just speculating, forming opinions without actually seeing pre-Citizen Kane films.
Only Angels have wings??
ggr I would pretty much recommend them watching every film that was nominated for best picture in 1939. That year was ICONIC! Gone With the Wind, Mr. Smith goes to Washington, The Wizard of Oz, Of Mice and Men, that was a great year for cinema and a good starting point for getting into classic films
I'd add City Lights too, pretty good list!
The piracy question was from me! Glad I succeeded in totally derailing the Q&A section of this episode. Thanks for the feature! 😁
You monster.
That amazing I agree with Adam
you lead to an animation with them!
For the bingo:
- Adam tries to pronounce a foreign name.
- Ralph says, "That's your opinion," as an attempt not to get triggered
Christina, I've been playing your Sardonicast Bingo game for a year now. Thank you. It's brought me closer with my family and healed my marriage.
What do you mean about Ralph? You think he's getting triggered? How so?
Old comment but it literally makes no sense to say "that's your opinion" about a debate where it isn't about opinions. Debates are objective and opinions are subjective, as in not to be argued or proven.
What does Adam mean when he basically says "Half the film is bad because its not action" I've seen it twice and its more like 20 minutes. The nuke scene at the start, the scene where he gets the package delivered to him, the scenes involving the CIA lady, learning the plan to take out the convoy and the last scene in the hospital. that's really it. Not a large part of the 2 and a half hour movie. This movie is almost non stop action, action that is being connected by 2 minutes of dialogue so it actually has a story. It's easily the best action movie this year.
I forget, what's its competition for best action movie of the year other than Marvel movies?
Soft Kore those scenes are long enough to make up half a movie, and besides it’s not just that it’s that he found those scenes boring and unimportant
The non-action scenes were pretty good imo even.
@Luigi Nastro there's a difference between having an opinion on what the director intended and how well they pulled it off in the film and then stating the film doesn't work because it didn't play out how you thought it was or wanted it to
A ghost story is a mesmerising film that (IMO) works and achieves what the film makers intended to achieve. Adam saying the movie should work without the ghost and is bad because of it is him wanting a movie to suit his tastes and not judging it based on the intent of the film maker
And even then on a technical scale I don't understand what he didn't like about it. It's gorgeously shot and the sound is haunting. It's effective at creating an ominous long lasting atmosphere because of its technical aspects
Watching this as I recover from surgery, thanks for the upload!
+badguygeorge
*SORRY TO HEAR!!!*
Get better soon, man or woman!?!
Depressed drawing of Philip Seymour Hoffman pretending to be a lonely wannabe rapist as profile picture checks out.
Hope the recovery goes well bud.
Good luck
Get well soon, man.
I wish you got Stuckmann on to talk about Mission: Impossible to side with Alex.
SaberRexZealot It would have helped probably. Most of all these Sardonicast podcasts is Adam talking 80% of the time and bouncing off of Ralph and Agreeing with him, and Alex consequently gets left in the dark a lot.
99% of the time Adam never likes a big blockbuster movie, and I respect his right to opinions on those movies, but listening to him constantly complain about everything mainstream and comparing all big budget movies to a perfect art-house film standard is a huge turn off for me when I watch his content. Ralph isn’t as bad, but still pretty cynical at times in my opinion. I really love most of Ralph’s content though; it is very original and very funny.
I just think treating the opposite side as a bunch of heathens (like this case w/ the MI: Fallout movie) is not the right way to go about things. If you disagree, talk it out in a civil manor and move on.
Brad Asbury "I thought this film was alright and I recommend it to fans of the franchise." = treating them like heathens
Okay, guy.
Brad Asbury Adam didn’t come across demeaning in his opinion at all. He was trying to articulate the way he felt about the movie to Alex and gave examples of what movies HE thought better displayed the qualities Alex was describing. If he didn’t justify his opinion he would look like an asshole. And it pisses me off so much when people try to write off his opinion by saying “he just holds everything up to an impossible standard.” Fuck off. Keep in mind he is a professional film reviewer. He can’t just walk into a movie and passively watch it without putting too much thought into his opinions. He has to make sure that he gets enough out of a film so that he can write a decent review. He has to be able to discuss aspects of the film like cinematography, writing, acting, directing, etc. because these are the most objective aspects of filmmaking. Some people want to know if a film has good writing or not. Because of this people act as if he is constantly comparing each film he watches to some unobtainable level of perfection. People don’t realize that he is a film reviewer and not just a personality that also talks about films. So just because he has to better solidify his opinion on films doesn’t mean he doesn’t give them a chance. A film reviewer watches a movie very differently then a film watcher. Keep this in mind next time you want to complain about your opinion of his opinion.
It's funny Adam got butthurt about people in his audience getting butthurt
At no point was the discussion anything other than civilized.
Seems like you're just massively exaggerating Adam's stance on the subject.
Shit man, it’s the president of Canada!
Totally not No One what a great short film
You're probably wondering how i got here.
I’m glad someone put a comment about his cameo in Mumkey Jones Stops a School Shooting.
Who's Shit man?
On the subject of old(er) movies, I do find it very stubborn when people refuse to watch them just because they're older. I have a friend to whom I recommended some older movies and she just refuses to even watch them 'cause they're a bit older, and I'm not even talking about the "pre-Citizen Kane" era, but movies from 70s or 80s even. That sort of attitude annoys me 'cause you really are missing out on a lot if you limit yourself just to 2000+ movie and the arguments are rarely justified.
Joker341Plays I used to be that exact person, I preferred not to watch things older than the late 90’s, and I was so wrong. Now, there are too many great older films to name. Brazil is one of my favorite movies now, and I would’ve never found it if I didn’t allow myself to watch older film. You just need to find an older film that will become one of her favorites to show her there’s great old stuff out there.
Maybe she just doesn't care about movies.
@@mr.stealyogirl1307 anything with merit is at least worth experiencing
"Lets do it"
* Opens Can *
"Oh"
"Its a coke zero"
Nicholas Borg ...
„It’s not a beer!... but I also have a beer...“
Yeah, that was said in the video, good
Daniel Vidal it’s all a jooookkkkkkkeeeeeee.
If that excuse can be used for everything, my comment was a joke too, and so is this one.
Pd. 100+ likes in a quote from the video is quite the joke, so I'm guessing you are right.
Daniel Vidal who cares
How many cinephiles have seen Woody Woodpecker, Cool Cat Saves the Kids, and the Chips movie?
true don’t forget fateful findings
Audrey Albritton and don’t forget timeless gems such as Gotti, The Fanatic, The Bye Bye Man, Sleepless, Epic Movie, Meet the Spartans, Disaster Movie, Little Panda Fighter and especially The Haunting of Sharon Tate and Reprisal
"cinephiles" who only watch the popular good movies are basic af. People like Alex, Adam, and Ralph are unironically more accurate examples of a cinephile than any other pretentious a-hole you could think of.
Pretty annoyed at the way Adum and Ralph handled that MI:Fallout argument (constantly talking over Alex and dominating the conversation to the point of unfairness) but the heated back-and-forth on the ethics of piracy made up for it
Isn't that every episode though.
Adam was 100% right about the piracy argument. And articulated it perfectly.
@@dirrdevil His argument had tons of flaws. The idea of if they werent going to watch it unless it was stolen so its ok is a horrible justification. I wasnt going to eat this food unless it was stolen and given for free. I wasnt going to were these cloths unless someone stole them and gave them for free. If you want to see something you have to pay for it.
Tech Lantern ik this is old but i need to ask you this: if you were to invite friends over to watch a movie you own, would you make them all pay for a copy of the film before letting them watch it?? what adam is really trying to defend here is the potential benefits that piracy bring when a film isn’t accessible to people. as a filmmaker, you have 2 options when your film can’t be viewed by most of the world: you are either stubborn and hope that film will make enough money back through limited theater releases and limited home releases OR you let the pirates basically handle distribution that you DONT EVEN HAVE TO PAY FOR and potentially reach a bigger audience that will most like not only support THIS PROJECT but upcoming projects in store. in a way, i see piracy as free advertising!!! if you still dont see the justification to this, answer me this: is it right for a person to use a free trial, use all of it functions and stuff, and never pay for the program after the trial??
@@thesinistervoid4311 For nearly all free trials you never get the full experience of the thing. They're designed to give you just a taste of the product. The largest problem with your system is that your drawing the massive assumption that the pirates will :
A) Not forget about the piece of media and move on to consume the next, or B) Have a sudden change of heart and not pirate the creators next project. Its not "free advertising" because they actually had to pay the thousands to make the actual film. If you can't fork over the 3 bucks to rent the movie to filmmakers that are just trying to break even, you flat out aren't supporting them.
Its like going to a struggling restaurant with like a group of 20 friends and then after you've had the full meal you leave and not pay, claiming you promoted the restaurant to 20 new customers. There's zero guarantee that any of them will come back at all, and now the restaurants is just in even more debt.
While I will guarantee that making potential viewers go out of their way to buy the film may reduce visibility, stealing is not the option. A better solution that I've seen is the creators do a crowdfunding campaign after they've made the film and if it makes enough money to break even or whatever, they just release it for free. Bottom line, the creators have to eat somehow.
Time Heideckers short video on piracy: th-cam.com/video/njiM6ubf2PQ/w-d-xo.html
Intro - 00:00
Neil Breen and Twisted Pair - 2:00
Old Movies - 9:43
M:I - Fallout - 32:58
Fantastic Planet - 56:00
Les Escargots - 1:23:45
Q&A Section - 1:27:07
What was the worst horror movie that managed to genuinely scare you? - 1:27:24
Who’s your favorite character of all time? - 1:31:06
How do you guys feel about movie pirating/torrenting? - 1:33:56
Ralph’s Recommendation (Punch Drunk Love) - 1:53:11
Not that anyone gives a shit, but here the best films of each decade in my opinion. I guess the first 2 decade lists can serve as recommendations for Adum as well.
Pre 30s:
- Intolerance (Griffith)
- The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari (Wiene)
- Battleship Potemkin (Eisenstein)
- The Gold Rush (Chaplin)
- The General (Keaton)
- Metropolis (Lang)
- Sunrise (Murnau)
- The Passion of Joan of Arc (Dreyer)
- Man With a Movie Camera (Vertov)
- Un Chien Andalou (Buñuel)
30s:
- City Light (Chaplin)
- M (Lang)
- L’Atalante (Vigo)
- Modern Times (Chaplin)
- La Grande Illusion (Renoir)
- Bringing Up Baby (Hawks)
- Gone With the Wind (Flemming)
- Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (Capra)
- The Rules of the Game (Renoir)
- The Wizard of Oz (Flemming)
40s:
- Citizen Kane (Welles)
- The Magnificent Ambersons (Welles)
- The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp (Powell)
- Casablanca (Curtiz)
- Double Indemnity (Wilder)
- Children of Paradise (Carné)
- It’s a Wonderful Life (Capra)
- Bicycle Thieves (De Sica)
- Late Spring (Ozu)
- The Third Man (Reed)
50s:
- Rashomon (Kurosawa)
- Sunset Boulevard (Wilder)
- Singin’ in the Rain (Donen)
- Tokyo Story (Ozu)
- Seven Samurai (Kurosawa)
- The Searchers (Ford)
- 12 Angry Men (Lumet)
- The Seventh Seal (Bergman)
- Vertigo (Hitchcock)
- The 400 Blows (Truffaut)
60s:
- L’Avventura (Antonioni)
- Breathless (Godard)
- La Dolce Vita (Fellini)
- Psycho (Hitchcock)
- Lawrence of Arabia (Lean)
- 8½ (Fellini)
- Andrei Rublev (Tarkovsky)
- The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Leone)
- Persona (Bergman)
- 2001: A Space Odyssey (Kubrick)
70s:
- A Clockwork Orange (Kubrick)
- The Godfather (Coppola)
- Chinatown (Polanski)
- Barry Lyndon (Kubrick)
- The Mirror (Tarkovsky)
- Nashville (Altman)
- Taxi Driver (Scorsese)
- Annie Hall (Allen)
- Apocalypse Now (Coppola)
- Stalker (Tarkovsky)
80s:
- Raging Bull (Scorsese)
- The Shining (Kubrick)
- Blade Runner (Scott)
- Fanny and Alexander (Bergman)
- Brazil (Gilliam)
- Ran (Kurosawa)
- Blue Velvet (Lynch)
- Platoon (Stone)
- Wings of Desire (Wenders)
- Do the Right Thing (Lee)
90s:
- Close-Up (Kiarostami)
- Goodfellas (Scorsese)
- Schindler’s List (Spielberg)
- Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)
- Satantango (Tarr)
- Three Colors Trilogy (Kieslowski)
- Breaking the Waves (Von Trier)
- Fargo (Coen)
- Fight Club (Fincher)
- Magnolia (Anderson)
00s:
- In the Mood or Love (Wong)
- Mulholland Drive (Lynch)
- Oldboy (Park)
- Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (Gondry)
- Caché (Haneke)
- Children of Men (Cuarón)
- No Country for Old Men (Coen)
- There Will be Blood (Anderson)
- Zodiac (Fincher)
- Synecdoche, New York (Kaufman)
10s:
- The Social Network (Fincher)
- The Tree of Life (Malick)
- Holy Motors (Carax)
- The Master (Anderson)
- Her (Jonze)
- Birdman (Iñárritu)
- Boyhood (Linklater)
- Whiplash (Chazelle)
- Moonlight (Jenkins)
- Blade Runner 2049 (Villenueve)
fantastic list, you really got all the essentials down. I think they'd all love 8½, for example.
Sardonicast: Civil war
On the piracy issue you just described my entire country, Australia. If good media wasn't region blocked or given to delayed releases then piracy wouldn't be the national sport it is over here.
They segment and restrict access to art, then say you’re not allowed to access that art through any means which is not completely legal? Australia gets it so bad considering how poorly distributed good films are in this country. I’m lucky I live in Sydney and have access to some decent theatres and whatnot but our general film market is terrible.
I like to imagine Neil Breen changed it to twisted pair because halfway through production he decided to add a twin
Michael Man2000 that's most likely the case lol, I like to think he added a twin because he couldn't think of a way to glorify his characters any more than he already did
Like he was a superhuman/god in his other films, the only way to add onto that is to have two of them right lol
Michael Man2000 lol
Alex said Ethan hunt when referring to Ethan hawke
Who?
r e p r e s s e d m e m o r i e s
Excited af to hear the boys discuss Punch Drunk Love
Uriel Cinema SHUT SHUT SHUT SHUT SHUT UP. SHUT UP. (are you threatening me, dick?)
No female protagonists before the 70s? How about "Gone with the wind" or "Wizard of Oz".
The eye of the beholder. That's what I was saying! I was so taken a back by his claims of sexism
Margarine Scotch I've noticed that like making generalized statements like that. It's pretty funny to me.
I'm sure they already know this, hopefully they will correct themselves in the next video
Im pretty sure there point was they were few and far between.
This is disputable, but I’d say that while Gone With the Wind uses the point of view of a female, but I wouldn’t consider her the protagonist, just like how Emma, in the book of the same name, is privy to the primary actions within the book, but doesn’t actively affect things. But hey, this is cinema, everyone can have their own opinion.
I do agree that Wizard of Oz undeniably uses a female character as the protagonist, which is undeniable, as she plays a very active role within the movie.
I think all three will agree that Adam Sandler's best role is in Punch Drunk Love on the next podcast.
filmfan24 he was pretty fantastic in The Meyerowitz Stories
He's also great in Spanglish
Well now it's either that or uncut gems.
Didn't Ralph pirated Suicide Squad?
So that's it, huh? We some kinda pirate squad?
Watch Sabotage by Alfred Hitchcock. It came out in the 30s. Its a well told story with really great acting and some dope visuals as well.
Its no Citizen Kane but the outcome of that movie is very dark for the time.
Ian Smart That's a good one...I love Hitchcock films tbh. For 1939, I'd also recommend Mr. Smith goes to Washington, or gone with the wind, ... purely for that last monologue. I think for people that aren't familiar with old films those are good starting points
Almost any Hitchcock film is worth watching
I feel like Adum is getting better at taking criticism, and understands why people would disagree with him. Ralph is less annoying in this one. Alex and Adum are always awesome.
Steven Rivera You leave Ralph alone
@@acrylicrainbow1326 ralph is a short gay wrong bitch
I think it's literally why Anthony was my favorite guest in this podcast. They're all very dynamic and their idea of what can be good can sometimes differ a lot. Anthony, although, is actually a very well spoken person when it comes to how one person might FORM their opinion and where they come from. Adum is better at it lately and Alex is coming out of his shell in sorts. Wish they'd bring Fantano back on though.
For the Sardonicast Bingo:
-Alex is right and Adum and Ralph are wrong about sth
-Someone screams sth like "Oh Boy!!" or "Yeah!!" very loudly
-Adum says "Eh"
1:34:05 bruhhh Alex just said ''Ethan Hunt'' instead of Ethan Hawke lmfaoo that's so me
love that discussion on piracy because it's so true. I have a friend who's good friends with a hollywood star and even she says to my friend that she's glad she pirates because otherwise no one would see the show she's in right now because it's not on tv here and this just gives the show more publicity and fans
michael cera mentioned fantastic planet in his hot ones interview
In what context?
Guy Incognito he was asked what's a good movie to trip out on i think?
+n crocs, makes sense. Also great when NOT tripping. (Although it may be even better when high. I cannot say for sure)
I watched that interview and kind of immediately forgot about it.
Other than Cera's secret rivalry with the one kid that always got cast in commercials.
Ripcookiethief there’s something memorably forgettable about Michael Cera.
Damn listening to Adum talking logic about piracy made my day. Ralph coming back with arguments like "that's just how I feel" made my day twice.
In what way, kind sir?
@@MaleTears his heart was about to stop and this was the only thing that would keep him going but since he never responded to you it seems he didn’t survive long after when this vid was released
I literally love this podcast so much - keep it up guys
the camera techniques were a big part of what made Citizen Kane so influential. they literally dug out the floor to get the super low shot on the characters for that one scene (sorry haven’t seen it in a bit) and the shot with the focus on the characters talking inside as well as Kane playing with his sled through the window utilizing deep focus is pretty important too. glad you enjoyed Metropolis too. keep up the videos, guys
yay another sardonicast! back to me pretending I'm talking to a bunch of friends who have great taste in films for 1 hour or more. :(
+SuperShah201
*AAAWWW!!!*
Poor guy, i'll be ur friend. =)
fuckem lets start our own movie podcast
Jombo I’m in
Actually start it
Jombo yeah we'll start our own movie podcast but with blackjack and hookers....actually screw the podcast
> one of the first mature rise and fall stories
You should check out The Greed (1924). Also, the story behind that film is as interesting as the film itself: one of the first disputes between the studio and the director that went really big.
Also, Citizen Kane wasn't that groundbreaking in terms of being grounded or serious at all, to be honest. It was rather an example of everything already known being polished into a 'perfect' (for its time) film, not something that has never been seen before. Damn, Angels with Dirty Faces or the old Scarface were more than competent in all this, from writing to depiction of the everyday life. And Gone With the Wind was released 2 years earlier than Kane. Even M you mentioned here still has stunning cinematography and a plot that can be easily adapted into a modern detective thriller.
Seriously, guys, go watch some old films. It's worth it.
(also, I'm 23, just saying)
Oh boy three a.m.
Justin Y. Ayy
Hello there
F
Justin Y, I’m waiting for the day you make your own podcast with Just Some Guy With a Mustache and Obi-Wan Kenobi.
For me it's 12am
Fantastic planet is an amazing film. And I recommend anyone who likes visually stunning art and other worldly experiences to watch it.
"Women in every movie pre-1970 is like just the wife and that's it."
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. That's more true post 1970 than it was pre 1970. Look at the careers of Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Janet Leigh, Katherine Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn, Elizabeth Taylor, Judy Garland and others. There used to be female leads in movies that were actually good. On top of that look at any noir film for a woman that's not "just a wife and that's it"
This is a ridiculous, and often weponized, misconception that needs to be stopped.
Andre Moreau yeah except the role for a woman in a noir film is to fuck or betray the male. Just like all wome-- oh wait. That's your example?? Please look up the male gaze
kamalindsey How did asking someone to look up the concept of 'the male gaze' translate into an over-arching accusation of all men?
Me thinks thou dost protest too much...
Right! Are the like completely unaware of Julie Andrews?? Because she is DEFS not just a wife in the Sound of Music (one of the best selling films of all time????) Made in the 60's???
Judy Garland? Really? She was treated like crap her whole adult life. She got shit for trying to break out of her "little girl" image Hollywood had of her
@@J94_Film have you even seen a Griffith movie...oh wait people just like to say things without any evidence great lol
Thank you all for doing this. I've been following all of you individually for what feels like years, and through you sharing your passion you've inspired me to persue (can't spell) filmmakeing, truly thank you.
Ralph just doesn't want to give people the idea to pirate his films
LET ALEX SPEAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Amen. Let him say more than two words.
"Hi I'm Alex from the yogs"
"It's okay when the Raid does it because the Raid wasn't a Hollywood blockbuster."
I can't wait for the Punch-Drunk Love discussion.
+legion *YES!!!*
Hopefully soon in the future.
the piracy debate is the exact same when it comes to video games. adam is absolutely right that most people pirate stuff just to try it and they will buy it afterwards if they like it
I completely agree. Adam had a way more nuanced argument than Ralph who was just restating the same thing over and over. There is definitely a grey area there, but I swing more to Adam's side.
I disagree when it comes to movies. Im sure less than 10% of people who pirate a movie actually end up buying it afterwards
The biggest reasons they don't buy them is because they can't for one reason or another. Convenience is the biggest issue here. Something like Netflix or Amazon Prime eliminate most of the inconvenience.
I agree with alex’s point of view on M1 fallout in this one, I also don’t get the criticism.
So in Ralph and Alex's mind, the movie doesn't blend the line of being interesting and an intentional product well enough. This isn't actually about the CREATOR'S intent, more so the tonality that they draw from the film. You, Alex, even I may find it significantly more engaging because we see it less with a critical eye and albeit less foundational knowledge on some lesser known movies or movies that replicate similar formulas. The moments where it lulled may have been a bit too familiar or comparable to other movies, while in this case we might enjoy it because of the standards with which we have for Hollywood, big budget films. Considerably better and overall a decent product given the constraints of having to appeal to MANY people in an established cinema framework.
It's like if you taste every food known to man, and you find some good shit and you're kinda sick of always eating spaghetti. To many, spaghetti will always be spaghetti, but to you, you may want to try something different or something never before tried.
While I commend Adum for going out of his way to address criticism of his "pre-Citizen Kane" comments and watching Metropolis, and while I do recognize that at the very least narrative structure was absolutely honed in a way it had not been before in Citizen Kane, I still feel as though his limited exposure to 20s to 30s cinema is stunting his growth as a cinephile or whatever you wanna call it. Metropolis is one movie. And a silent film on top of that, the rules of which are markedly different from what sound entails. I highly recommend Fritz Lang's follow up, M, as well as the original Scarface and early Hitchcock films like the 39 Steps and especially The Lady Vanishes. The likelihood of him seeing this is slim to none, but I was going back to old Sardonicast episodes and felt the need to post this when this came up.
Ohhh boy, I was raised on "pre- citizen kane" films and boy was that conversation they had fascinating. I really want to know what films they've seen so I could possibly recommend some. (Edit) Although sexism is prevalent within older films that isn't to say that their aren't stronger independent female characters off the top of my head Scarlett O'hara from gone with the wind comes to mind.... she definitely wasn't the doting housewife... Almost any character played by Bette Davis... Then there was Eve Harrington from All About Eve. And finally the main character from Snake Pit, Virginia Cunningham I think she's pretty tough too.
AGREED! In my opinion, Gone with the Wind has the best writing & character work of any film! Cause when you really think about it, Scarlett O'Hara is a terrible, narcissistic, bitch who's main goal throughout most of the film is to steal her best friend's husband. But because the writing, directing and Vivian Leigh's acting is so fantastic, you end up sympathizing with her and even rooting for her!
Ralph has been going to too many "feminism in movies" classes to get his head out of his ass about "racism" and "sexism"
This guy you just responded to clearly stated that sexism is prevalent in older films. Racism can also be found all over in varying degrees (Blaxplotation?). Sorry not sorry, that's reality, whether you like it or not.
Nicolás Fernández Boo hoo. I just appreciate the film for it's merit in filmmaking instead of moral fagging over how people were 70 - 115 yrs ago. How dare movies in the 1930s not have more diversity and wamens!
Jackson Roze Reviews I definitely agree with you! I hope Ralph and friends sit down and watch it sometime. Scarlett O'hara is one of my favorite movie characters of all time, watching the world around her change her into an adult and her fall in love with the land! Not to mention, that ENDING!
Finally a recommendation of a movie I’ve actually watched beforehand
I've totally bought movies after pirating them. In my late teens and early twenties, that's mostly how I decided what movies to buy.
"Charisma vacuum" is the best sentence I've heared in years
Ralph
When I was a kid I could afford 1-2 games per year, the rest I pirated. It was piracy, or miss out on a cultural zeitgeist that has meant a great deal to me. After growing up and earning a salary I started buying new and old games on Steam, because I wanted to 'own' them. Now I have 300+ games on Steam. Including Final Fantasy 6 for PC which is probably the 3rd time I've repurchased that game.
Ralph was so out of his element in the piracy conversation.
Old comment but he was giving blanket arguments "oh it's stealing movies" and not seeing Adam's point. Then has to resort to "eh it's your opinion" when it is a discussion where it isn't about opinions or subjectivity. Should be "agree to disagree" not opinions.
Alex is spot on about Mission Impossible. In my opinion, it's the best movie of the year so far.
If i was on my phone i'd do a triple vomit emoji, but hey more power to you
I agree. Very entertaining
You find it disgusting that someone disagrees with you? You have problems mate.
the other two are trying to be contrarians so hard
like seriously did these guys want tom cruise to fucking wink at the camera like deadpool
I would love to see what Adum thinks about The Big Sleep or The Maltese Falcon or Double Indemnity. Not technically pre-Citizen Kane, but I think still old enough to qualify for Adum's classification of "old movies." They've got crazy storylines, great characters, and are great feats of story telling.
I agree with Adum, btw. Piracy doesn't impact the "industry" that bad. Just off the top of my head, even if I don't pay directly for an anime series that I watch (and considering crunchyroll is shit), I will still go through all the hurdles of importing the blurays and maybe also buy (a lot of) merchandise from the creators of said series. Piracy is not that bad if it incentivices companies to offer better products (aka. get your shit together streaming services).
Old film recommendations:
The Phantom Carriage 1921 (has some of the most beautiful performances in a silent movie)
Battleship Potemkin 1925
The Passion of Joan of Arc 1928
Earth 1930 (on TH-cam)
The Goddess 1934 (on TH-cam)
Ordet 1955
Just a short list of extremely important silent movies + Ordet.
Old movies: try and watch Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans and The Cabinet of Dr Caligari. Both are silent movies and they are so good.
Also I Walked With A Zombie is such a great old horror movie with some pretty interesting social commentary.
Did i hear Alex mention PF's "The Wall"? Well done, such a good flick.
Honestly I do love watching older movies in a sense that Im intrigued by how they used to think back then and how they achieve shots and techniques
Especially old western and foreign films too just as much as anything
In the summer I marathoned a slew of Older films I wished to watched for a challenge and it was hella fun
That’s how I see it
Pre 40s cinema is very wide. There are jean renouire, charlie chaplin, john ford there were musicals.
Chaplin's films are brilliant. _'The Great Dictator'_ is incredible
There's plenty of great pre-Citizen Kane movies, It Happened One Night, Gone With the Wind, Freaks, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Nosferatu, The Lady Vanishes, You Only Live Once, Wizard of Oz, the Universal horror films, Fritz Lang's films as was mentioned, anything from Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton.
It's not like Citizen Kane was the first great movie, it was however extremely innovative and even revolutionary in terms of techniques, not so much in terms of storytelling/structure, but in terms of literal film craft, cinematography, and the filmmaking process
I want more Alex
Fantastic Planet one of my all time favorite animated films.
To follow with Adum's clothing analogy - Trailers would be like testing the clothes by feeling fabric swatches.
59:38 anyone else chuckling at Adums Mmhmm's? He does that in a few of these when he's really engaged.
there’s a conversation in the film community about whether or not its worth it to go to film school. I’d have to say that the film history courses I took in college were great value in navigating the subject, and can be kind of difficult to do yourself. I am definitely grateful to have had so much guidance in that regard.
"You wouldn't download a gun would you?"
>3d printing
The history of Metropolis and how it was almost lost is fascinating, I highly suggest reading about it. It makes watching the movie more interesting to watch.
Can we get "Alex, what did you think?" t-shirts?
check out "All Quiet on the Western Front" (1930). one of the few movies pre-1940 where you really can have an emotional bond with the characters.
Alex seemed so bullied lol. And Adum, there were distinguishable occasions in MI: Fallout that were intentionally self aware. Henry Cavil literally says that people falling for the mask is bullshit. And at the end of the film when Ethan was asked "How close were we?", he just replys with "The usual." I think the film was perfectly acknowledging what it was.
Serial Ape-ist I agree. Also there was the chase scene in the church right before the rooftop running part where Ethan is being chased and he is asked who is chasing him. He said something like"CIA, apostles, does it really even matter?" A great moment of self awareness that made me chuckle and makes fun of the goofy plot. I feel like Adum and Ralph didn't even watch the movie?
Hearing you talk about "After Lucia" not gonna lie, made me regain faith on Mexican cinema. Gracias por regresarme la esperanza en mi propio país x)
When did they talk about it p?
1:40:40
He just gives a little nodge to it, mostly that the director it's underated, it's around the "What do you think of piracy?" question
There are more examples of narrative cinema other than Fritz Lang talkies. German expressionist cinema and golden age Universal monster movies were adapting folklore and novels before Citizen Kane as well. What Orson Welles innovated on was the scope of cinema as an art form as well as a popular enterprise. Few films at that time played with editing and rich, realistic set designs as this movie. Also, its narrative arc spans a lifetime which was pretty unique at the time as well. Most notably, however, is probably its use of non-linear narrative structure with the narrative end occurring at the opening of the film.
I remember watching fantastic planet a while ago and I never thought it would be brought up again in my life. It’s awesome that you guys know about it
I’m working through older film right now, whereas I used to say I hated old film and wouldn’t watch it, 2001 was the oldest film I had seen until recently, not including The Wizard of Oz. In terms of older film, I have a preference for post war film (like The Red Shoes, Citizen Kane, 12 Angry Men, or Casablanca which may well be a masterpiece, made in 1942,) but Freaks (1932) and The Passion of Joan of Arc (1927) are the greatest pre war films I’ve seen and you should check out if you haven’t.
I really enjoyed the discussion about piracy. You both bring up good points from different perspectives.
I’m happy to hear Adam’s views on film history. He seems to be more a modern person and that’s ok! :P
All of Fantastic Planet is basically a moving Heironymous Bosch painting. So fucking cool
Pirating is not even close to stealing. If I stole Adam's car, he no longer has use of said car and cannot sell the car for profit. If I download a digital copy of a Micheal Bay film, Michael still has the original digital file and the ability to continue making profit off of said file. By Ralf's logic, there should be some sort of licensing fee if someone consistently brings friends over to watch a certain movie. When does it become theft? After he has shown it to 10 people? What if he manages to show it to 100 people over time? Assuming it's a 20 dollar blueray that is a potential loss of 2000 dollars in sales.
I was having a real shitty day and this made it honestly so much better. thanks guys
Wow guys. I can’t believe you got the president of Canada on as a guest.
FUCKING YES! A movie that I really love and a movie that I have wanted at least one of you to talk about, now you're all gonna talk about it. Thank you Ralph for recommending Punch Drunk Love.
I agree with the piracy conversation for the most part. However, As a college student, I will pirate the shit out of the textbooks.
This will be the only place to find RalphTheMovieMaker anymore.
I completely agree with Alex in the Fallout portion of this
Fantastic Planet is one of the best movies to get stoned to. Great soundtrack as well. It reminds me of Dali. Especially that ending.
This is truly epic for the win
On the piracy thing, there's also the issue of geographical distribution. I can sure as hell tell you that a lot of indie, foreign or rare films never make their way in physical form to smaller countries. So the only solutions you really have are either take a trip to a neighbouring large country where you don't actually have a guarantee to find what you're looking for or order it on Amazon or some other website, where it might take up to one or two weeks to arrive.
At that point, piracy just is a lot more convenient.
Adam: “Ah damn, Ralph’s being racist again!”
There was a video that was up since 2006 where Rene Laloux’s Les Escargots was synched up with The Pot by Tool. Original video was taken down and was reuploaded by someone about a week ago (August 13th)
Can't find it :(
The oldest film I've seen was this obscure short film from 1905 where a guy was shaving, in the film he starts eating his shaving cream and starts seeing weird shit in the mirror, it's brilliant actually
Punch-Drunk Love?
First time a Sardonicast film recommendation is a film I've watched before.
@sardonicast A really good pre-Citizen Kane movie imo is Wizard of Oz, made in 1939, unbelievably good for the year.
1939 was a GREAT year for film!
Jackson Roze Reviews I'm not too into very old film, but Wizard of Oz is iconic. Didn't even realize it was older than Citizen Kane until I looked it up
Is that the one where the queen is black and she's sitting on a massive toilet?
Fantastic Planet is essential the Sea of Monsters scene from Yellow Submarine extended to a full length film
I think it's ok to pirate corporate cash grab movies like Pacific rim uprising, the emoji movie or skyscraper, that you know will be bad, but you're curious as to how bad it is
ClassicSpace-Guy You can agree that it’s still stealing though, right? I personally wouldn’t, but that’s just me. You do you.
Oh poor Hollywood. Someone insignificant is pirating a movie. how will those poor celebrities eat or live in their giant houses?
Nothere27 Just because someone already has a lot of money, doesn’t mean it isn’t stealing if you take something from them without compensation.
Those same people in their big houses happen to pay people who perhaps live in smaller, more median houses. So in a way, aren’t you stealing from the little guy, or any relatively normal-income staff from a movie production? The boom-guy, the makeup artists, the extras?
Hey, if you wanna pirate movies though, like I said, I’m not gonna try to stop you. I just think that stealing is morally not within my realm of choices.
It's not stealing, it's making a copy. It's not morally equivalent at all.
As a film critic the first thing you need to watch that I doubt anyone would dispute is Man with a Movie Camera. Not gonna say I love it but it is necessary viewing. If you want to critique cinematography it's important to have a timeline of technique development. If a criticism you often make is 'this isn't original' or 'this brings nothing new to the medium' you kinda need to know what's new.
50:37 take a shot every time adum says half of the movie
Citizen Kane revolutionized the moving camera. I saw an interview with Scorsese and he was talking about how the camera was more of an observer in Pre-Kane, and with Kane, Orson Welles wanted to be more self aware with the camera with scenes like how Welles ripped a hole in the floor to set the camera in it. I've started to dive into pre kane myself and I'm really excited, I watched John Ford's Young Mr. Lincoln from 1939 recently and it was awesome.