18th Century Smoothbores School of the Longhunter Seminar 2023
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- One of the seminar topics that I present is on period correct loading and firing techniques for 18th century smooth-bored guns.
The seminar covers both military muskets and civilian guns.
I give seminars at various events, but since most of you will never attend one of those events, I decided to turn the seminar into a video.
Mike Beliveau links:
Patreon - / duelist
Website - mikebeliveau.com/
TH-cam Channel - / @duelist1954
Rumble Channel - rumble.com/c/c...
First of all Mike I don't think that you should apologize for the length or the content of your videos because I'm going to watch it. And the main reason is because you have such detail in your presentations that just spell bounds me and teaches me. I drink it up like it was a fine liquor and soak it up like it was a ShamWow towel. Sorry to be so descriptive but I do enjoy these videos especially when I'm learning. Thanks so much for the video I really did learn a lot. Always remember to keep ye powder dry! Thanks again
Thanks Terry!
@@duelist1954 thanks Mike that's the first time you've ever replied to one of my comments thanks again I really did enjoy this video or if I May, tutorial
It takes me two sessions to watch these, which is just fine.
Terry Queen, Vince would be proud.
Highly educational and informative. The discussion of kernel size vs. surface area was helpful even with smokeless powders.
Thanks for the hard work you put into the research for this video!
I use sheeps wool with a round ball and with shot for my tvm 54 cal smooth bore. I hunt and use my flintlock. I am not a range guy or city guy. I use my gun for food. I have pictures of what that method does in a real-life hunting situation. I also believe that was used back then. People had sheep,cows,goats,and other animals. Being born and raised on a farm, we use what we have available. I am sure Dainel Boone did also. Great video, thanks. God bless.
A true historian - “How they actually used it compared to how we wish they used it” Thank you sir!
This is exceptional scholarship on the historical and modern use of the Brown Bess and smoothbore fowlers. Some of your best work yet! The best part is that you explain WHY it works. Thank you!
Excellent video, I appreciate you taking the time to make this video, very interesting and I learned a lot.
Thank you for sharing this.
Great information, thanks for sharing. One of these days I need to attend the school of the longhunter.
I always had terrible results loading shot in a smoothbore with the old “square load”. You did a video some years ago where you used 100gr 2F and 2oz of shot so I gave that a try and it’s worked like a charm and I’ve been doing it ever since. Thanks for another great video, Mike.
Loved it. One thing that's missing is a discussion on ball size vs bore size in civilian smooth bores. Using a .610 ball in a .615 bore may work really well, but did your average Joe have such perfectly fitting balls for his trade gun? I'm a bit sceptical.
Very Interesting. I wish you had a Powder Charge/Velocity chart like that for Cap and Ball Revolvers. Elmer Keiths' Book recommends a full load of FFg but Lyman's Black Powder Manual recommends FFFg for the .44 Revolver. I guess I'll just have dig out my Chronograph and find out for my self.
Thanks for the upload Mike! I'm glad the YT overlords haven't completely smote your channel!
"We got one down here. Not so good" - *Direct hit in the pelvic girdle* - Sir, that's a perfect hit, as that is right near the femoral artery.
Again, you knocked it out of the park !that was awesome!I need to get me one. I'm hoping kibler will start making them thank you 🤠
Glad you did well Mark be safe keep passing the knowledge on Peace
Very useful and historically accurate information given in this video which all adds to the pleasure of muzzleloading. Thanks Mike.
Excellent and informative video. Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
I will point out that the pedersoli Bess is actually a replica of a second "short land" pattern musket. The first pattern guns were a couple inches longer at the muzzle.
I thought I had a good understanding of black powder and it's ballistic performance. I've been shooting muzzloading since 1976. This video has truly explained how black powder performs with various loads. This presentation makes it simple to understand. It has helped me explain to my grandchildren and believe it or not, Great grandchildren how black powder works by the load. Thank you for this one ..... Great show in my opinion, they learned a lot!
👍 Thank you. This has real application for my Charleville and my Trade Gun.
Haha! Mike’s gonna shave a beaver!! Haha!!
Where do i get a hat like that? Please tell me.
It was hand made by Lil Griz
Do you think tic-licker was a smooth bore? I kinda think he started off smooth bore and then later on transitioned to the long rifle? What do you think??
Boone was known to have both rifles and smoothbores, and he was a good shot with either.
Fighting close quarters in woods or at ship boarding i see it being useful. But How much damage is buckshot actually going to inflict at extended ranges?
I wonder if ball blocks were carried or used during the period. The ball and patch would be placed in a wood block and and could be loaded quickly into the bore.
I read the idea of a square shot load is described as a shot load equal to the length of the diameter of the bore of the barrel.
English Fowling Pieces I read used Jug Choke barrels to improve shot patterns and still shoot round balls accurately too.
Clear and concise, thanks Mike
This is an AMAZING video! Your combination of scholarship and practical experience is rare on yt!
Also...bare balls 😂!
37:40 you use 2F to prime the pan? I thought you should use 4F for that? Is there any noticeable delay using 2F instead? It would be much simpler and faster using 2F for loading and priming thats for sure.
4F is technically faster, but in the 18th & 19th centuries people primed with the same powder as their main charge. You saw the film clips. Ignition was fine.
@@duelist1954 yeah it definitely worked just fine. that's good to know.
If you believe this guys opening lines then the watcher REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, needs to consult British Flintlock Military Rifles by Dewitt Bailey concerning rifle use in the 1740s BY THE NATIVES. Chapter 6 is a good start AND that there were rifles in NEW YORK in the 1680s. Since the Governor of NY ( Governor Dongan) raised a militia force in 1688 “..500 foot, 50 riflemen and 800 Indians..” Plus the German officers with Burgoyne marching to there defeat at Saratoga wrote in their journals of being sniped at by riflemen long before they got to the battle and long before Morgan’s Riflemen arrived. SO yes there were rifling in New England.. Then we might read “Sons of The Trackless Forest” by Mark Baker. And of course “The Frontier Rifleman” by LaCrosse and “Colonial Riflemen in the American Revolution” by Huddleston. His comments on power and velocity cannot be proven by a chronograph. FFF is twice as fast in MECHANICAL BURN RATE as FF since it has about twice the surface area, yes its a surface burning propellant. Velocity? My 54 caliber 38” barreled flintlock rifle will make 1900+ with 100 gr of FFF powder. Chronographed. FFF works REALLY well in rifles to at least 54 caliber. FF may, in some rifles give better accuracy. But I have a 50 caliber 44” barreled heavy flintlock rifle that will shoot virtually through the same hole at 60 to 100 yards. With 120 gr of FFF. This from the barrel maker who tests the barrels with a percussion action and a scope before he ships them. And my own experience in matches. And I started shooing MLs about 1965 and have been building rifles, pistols and a few smooth bores since 1967 and shooting competition since 1968 at various levels. A friend and mentor started building in the 1950s and his standard load for a 54 caliber rifle was 100 gr of FFF and I have owned 3 of his 54s over the years and still have two and they ALL shot lights out with 100 gr of FFF. And I have killed elk, Antelope and deer to ranges of about 150 yards with 50 and 54 caliber flintlocks over the years. This lead in and some of the other statements makes me believe that he has been heavily influenced by or is a member of what I call the “cult of the smoothbore”. Remembering the EVERY MAN had to have a militia arm and a supply of ammo whether he ever shot it or not and the average clerk in a store in Boston or NYC had no use for anything the the cheapest thing be could find that would let him comply with the law. If we READ old journals, if we THINK about the natives being heavily armed with rifles they we understand that is you lived on the frontier it was impossible to discourage rifle armed natives with a fowling piece or a musket if they had climbed a tree or were on a hill shooting over the stockade walls from 200 yards out. Yeah, I have been to Boonesboro for example and I could easily shoot across the river and make positions inside the fort untenable. Remembering that one of Morgan’s riflemen shot General Fraser at Saratoga from 300 yards and was in a tree. A smoothbore is useless at much over 120-150 yards and questionable at 100 on a man sized target (read the period comments by military officers of the time). A good 54 caliber hunting rifle will shoot 6” 5 shot groups at 200 yards. I have done it. And I only shoot round balls. Since the fastest twist barrel I own in 54 is a 66”. Everything I have posted here is fact either from documentation or personal experience of me or friends of mine. Its easy to find if you buy the right books and do some reading. The powder comments. I had a friend who was one of rhe few experts on BP in the US and I have a large stack of his material and material from various manuals and papers dating back to the 18th c. That he has sent me over the last 40 odd years. If you dig around on the WWW you might find some of his writings he called himself “Mad Monk. Sorry but I really detest bad info.
You should do that at Ft Harrod in Harrodsburg Kentucky if you get a chance. The fort there has been replicated in a similar fashion. Harrodsburg is the oldest settlement west of the Allegheny mountains.
Mike you have to much fun i do envy you. Not only that the details you provide are always spec on which is all I want to know! I’ve watched this several times since you originally posted it! It’s so informative! Specifically the details of the velocities offered between 2F And 3F. I’m primarily a 2F user because I have a few 50 and 54 cal not too mention the Bess and Charleville. Those two big gals I generally use 1 or 1.5 F which I have for them specifically. 3F in my 45s and smaller along with my Colts open tops. Thank you for providing this information!!! Respectfully!
Truley enjoyable and educational. I have several smoothbores, 3 of them double-barreled 1850's British made. 10- 16- and 20 bore. and one single in excellent condition, barreled 16 bore. And I have fired NONE OF THEM!
At first it was a lack of knowledge, which you and a few others have supplied, thankfully.
And then the Agent Orange (that our government supplied to all us in SE Asia) kicked in. Almost constant heavy tremors joined the muscle and bone damage. But I am determined to shoot the rascals, especially the 15-bore. It is very nicely engraved, English walnut stock, and just happened to fit me like a glove - almost a bespoke firearm. Already have primers, 3F powder, appropriate wads, and a good supply of #7 1/2 shot. Just got to settle my long muscles down a bit, and fit some all-terrain wheels to my assistant. The cane is of little use in most areas as it likes to see how deep soft ground really is.
So - thanks, Mike for helping me understand smoothbores a bit better.
I've been to your fort. Have you been to Fort Randolph in pt. Pleasant, wv?
No, but it is a fort I'd like to get to.
@@duelist1954 battle days are in October. Battle was end of French and Indian wars
I must confess, I fell to the 3f for everything speil, a couple years ago. Prior to that, I had used different granulations for different guns.
Mike, once again, you have proven to be the Dean of Muzzleloading. Thank you for this video!
Some of my relatives definitely couldn't have been in the British army. they just don't have enough teeth
I have been looking for this kind of info for several years. This backs up and improves some of the things i have found. I now have an understanding of black powder like never before, and a clearer understanding of shot loading than before! Thank you Mike for a fine and informative video. I will be keeping this for reference in the future. I hope you record all this stuff in a book of your own, would be worth every penny!
Where can we find a list of where you will be presenting?
Thank you.
Excellent! As usual. Thank you for posting.
Fantastic! So much I didn't know. I doubt I'll ever put it to use but it gives me context and a greater appreciation of my ancestors and our history.
This was awesome. Very informative and well done. Thank you!
Thank you SO MUCH for making this a video! I learned a ton as always!! This is incredible!
Sem Tradução nem legenda. Que pena. Gosto do assunto.
Mike I would to see you, run and load at the same time like Daniel Day Lewis did in "Last of the Mohicans". LOL
Do you wax or grease your paper patch?
No
your buck and ball load is different than all the published loads i've seen! all of them from the 1800's were 6 pellets of double ought and a ball with about an 70 to a 100 grain charge and i've seen one from the 1770's that was 6 pellets double ought and 3 of single ought with ball but it didn't give a charge size for the load!
As usual, great historical details and practical information on how to. The explanation about the differences in powder was very helpful, even jf I thought I knew everything, LOL.
Today, with ammo prices sometimes approaching $5/round for center-fire cartridges and expensive shotshells, some primers non-existent, shooting flint and percussion (if you find the caps) is very economical. Especially with flint, you have beaten the primer shortage!
What about 60 gr of 3f on top of 60 gr of 2f?
Would like to see more videos like this. Very good!
Good to see your back i hope every thing is OK great video as always
Always good and werry informative videos 👍
Good stuff, Mike.I really appreciate you sharing this presentation. I would love to go to SOTLH, but unfortunately, can't ever get away more than a half day. My wife is bed-ridden and I certainly can't leave her alone overnight.
I'm sorry to hear about your wife.
Thank you for the lesson. I look forward to the next one.
I've had issues getting black powder at all. I found six pounds of FFFG so I bought it. I'm using it in my revolvers mostly. My 1858 two band Enfield shoots not so good with it. I've never tried it in my 69cal 1842 Springfield. I'm going to Ohio in a few months so I'll stop in to The Log Cabin gun shop in Lodi Ohio and stock up on FFG and FFFFG. Thanks Mike Great video.
I've shot a 2 band Enfield for years mine definitely shoots better with 2f.
Really good and quite practical. Thanks!
Does this information. Grain size, burn rate, MV, pressure. Transfer to rifles as well? Say a 54 cal Hawken style reproduction.
Yes
Hey mike, great video! I am a muzzle, loader, guy, too, I have a little saddle shop, a little north of Walkens, Glen, New York. If you need any Saddle, skirting for wads or felt, I’d love to give you some. I got scrapes all over the place just respond to me and give me your email or something and I’ll be happy to send you some.
Thanks Joe. My email is mike.beliveau@hotmail.com
Pipe bowl often is clay tavern style or as made with around first finger ,found in reprint of smoking guide . Match to gauge in any case be blessed Peace to you n your,s
That's really interesting, when did they go to the wads that were used in shotgun shells, the thicker over powder wad, the longer fiber cushion wad, the under shot wad and then a thin card wad? That is how I load my side by side muzzle loading shotguns, just like in a old shotgun shell. You carry a lot less, for sure. BTW, I get excellent patterns at 30 yrds. How are the shot patterns out of your 12ga at 30rds?
Those wads were a 19th century shot cartridge innovation
@@duelist1954 any idea when exactly, or was it kinda everyone came up with it? Makes ya kinda wonder what they first used in them..like pin fires? I'm sure some of the info is around, like chokes in shotguns. A lot of thinking and tinkering by a lot of folks all at once.
Very good commentary, much enjoyed.
do you know how thick the leather is on the bags? I have tried to make bags but the leather seemed to be to thick. Thank you for another informative video.
About 6 oz to 8 oz, I'd say.
If your making traditional bags that are sewn inside out and then turned right side out I use 4oz veg tanned. I did use 6-8 oz on my first bag and it was very thick and heavy to work with. Now all I use is 3-4oz and that works well.
Mike this was really interesting I expecially enjoyed the part of the presentation where you talked about powder geometry. I know that might not interest everybody but I reload and I find that kind of stuff fascinating. Thank you.
Wow so excellent and informative
Some brilliant dry humour from Mike B! (Beaver fur). Also, I wonder about the pipe bowl as a measure of powder and shot? I have no clue but could the author have been thinking about clay pipes which might have been a vaguely standard size?
That would be my guess too.
Excellent video. Thank you.
How's the case going? Hope you win
Dang, I need to get good with my brown bess. I suck.
Great video. This one must have been a ton of work.
Thanks! Putting this together was pretty time-intensive, but the research was performed over several years.
Thanks Mike great info
Really enjoyed your presentation Mike.
Super good video thanks
My favorite quote of the year. "How dead can you be?" haha.
Very informative Mike!
Hope all is well my friend!
Take care and stay safe! Hod bless!✝️🙏🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸😊
Mike, the Ordinance Manual you quoted says use a .65 caliber ball and 100 grns powder. I know it is American, not British. But was wondering how you thought it might be different.
I up-sized it for the .75 caliber Brown Bess.
Great seminar! I have a reproduction 1740 brown bess and I cannot hit a target at 50 yards. I cannot figure out where the balk is going or why I keep missing. I am using a .69 round ball, 100 grains of 2F powder and 5 grains of 4F for Priming. Paper cartridges. I am shooting from a bench rest with the gun supported on a rest at 50 yards. 25 or more shots and not one ball on a 3 x 4 foot target at 50 yards. Any idea what I am doing wrong? Thank you!
I think I'd have to be with you, but have you measured your bore? It might be larger than .75. If it is, you may need a larger ball in your cartridges. If the ball is the correct size for the bore, I would go higher with the powder charge.
This is a great presentation/video.
FANTASTIC primer on musket shooting, Mike! Many thanks!
Good morning from Syracuse NY brother
I really needed this information, thank you so much.
Thank you for an excellent presentation and in-depth research! I was particularly fascinated by your powder granulation tests; it was interesting to see how the performance overlapped at around 80 grains.
Perfect ! I just acquired a French 1817 pattern smoothbore musket. Thank you for publishing this !
I just picked up what I believe to be an English single barrel fowler. Percussion, about 20 gauge, 44 1/2 inch barrel. Some nice German silver pieces, iron butt plate and trigger guard. A back action lock, I believe the maker is Fenton. But these things are interesting projects, a research project. It's a long skinny stick of a shotgun.
Very educational and instructional. And a freakin' blast. Thanks for the show. I noticed the kick, madone! After several eye surgeries my hard kicking long gun days are over. My Rem 870P (1983) and Mosin M44 (1944 Izhevsk) are retired too.
great great great. thank you
What a fascinating and enlightening video. As a confirmed rifle shooter and builder, I've really gotten into smoothies the last 3 years or so. You've really given me stuff to think about. A lot of my "accidental" experiences have mirrored what you are presenting. Thank you.
Thank you. Very informative.
I could watch your videos all day long and this is no exception. Excellent detailed and rich content that I can apply to my own needs and practices with smoothbore shooting. Keep 'em coming -- greatly appreciated here!
Would have like to have seen a buck shot test at 25 and 50 yrds
Mike I don't say it much or often and we've never met but thank you for your videos.
Great video. I was wondering where you had been.
I am curious as to your powder preference relating to rifled arms. 3F to 70 grains 2F above? I know each gun is different.
I go more by caliber. 3Fg in .45 and under. 2Fg in .50 up, but I usually don't go above 75 Gr in .45...my current .45 load is 55 grains of 3Fg Swiss. I shoot 90 gr of 2FG in both .54 and .58 caliber rifles, and 1.5 Fg in rifled muskets.
Excellent video
Thank you for sharing my friend and I enjoy this video
Thanks Mike
Thanks Mike
Great video as usual. I just got my 1766 charleville and learning a lot from you. I guess trial is the best teacher. You lessen the learning curve thank you for all your hard work.
Spanish moss was used by the conquistadors in their guns. The moss does not burn.
Wow, I have lots of it I got during a hurricane in Hilton Head.
Thanks Excellent great info.
I really enjoy this video, thank you so kindly for sharing.100 % agree
😃😃😃
Great information!
Charcoal-burner school, love it! Thanks, Mike for the great presentation.