Finally someone said it out loud. Sumo and conventional are not the same. Ones not better than the other but you also can’t compare the two. I have a solid conventional but can’t sumo for the life of me. I see people Sumo more than my conventional but can’t even come close to me in my conventional pull. Both require skill strength and effort but they are not the same lift.
I remember 4 years ago, my conventional PR was 555lbs, one of my friends asked me if I could pull more with sumo. So at week 8 of my program I decided to use Sumo on my deadlift day just for fun. To see how far I could take it going up tiny increments at a time. Having never pulled sumo, I made my way slowly to 505lbs. It felt like an odd cheat code. Since I had lower back hernias this was an eye opener to me in regards to how little stress is put on my spinal erectors. I felt it more in my ass and inner thighs than anywhere else. That was the day I refused to equate them as the same lift...Because they are vastly different. Like comparing a strict press to a push press.
@@pHaTtY111111111111 people tend to forget that the legs are more than just quads and hamstrings, there's so many small areas of muscle that are activated with different positions of the legs. if people want to compare sumo to conventional they might as well compare them to a weighted split squat if they're gonna have such a broad category
Figure 8 and raw are not the same, either. Neither is the lift on a deadlift bar vs stiff bar. No straps conventional on a stiff bar is a deadlift. Everything else is purely to get a higher number.
@@ghosthero0806 yup. It's the reason I was still able to deadlift with an inner hamstring tear but as soon as I would trapbar deadlift(an inch or two wider) I would feel massive pain in the hamstring. I can just imagine the pain if I had tried to sumo with that tear.🤣
The intro of the history of the deadlift was a gret intro for this video. Really appreciating the effort you are putting into your content Mitch, it's a nice change from the Mukbangs etc. popularised by other strongmen. You give great solid advice and showcase entertinment that is actually interesting
my opinion is simple for the Eddie and Thor debate, 500kg in the heaviest in competition lift, and 501kg is the heaviest "regulated" lift because there was a ref the plates were weighed it was done in a comp style just for him, the exact same way we all enjoyed Tom Stoltman going for that 300kg stone and Luke Stoltman going for the 230kg Log, was all done in lock down with a ref.
Honestly the Rogue Record Breakers are pretty much the same thing. It is competition standard with refs, but they are stand alone events after the actual competition is over.
I think the weakness in the argument differentiating Eddie's as special or superior because it was a "competition" lift is that he didn't actually finish the competition. He withdrew after the deadlift event.
@@TheAkahige He didn't even withdraw, he wasn't even in the competition at all. He was just a guest for the record breaker competition, just like Benni and Jerry. I understand if you don't want to count Hafthor's lift because it wasn't in a competition, but in no universe are you allowed to count Eddie's lift then either.
@@henrikpersson488 that makes no sense at all, They both count as separate records, you cant have Thors count as the competition record because he didnt compete against anyone, pretty sure it was also WUS that organised it a different org than giants live
@@danmoyer4650have you tried wrestling an animal of that size?? 🫠 I can tell you, small size doesnt mean they're easy to wrestle with. I've worked with sheep, and those assholes can give some mean bruises (even by accident, had a palm-sized bruise on my inner thigh for a week after a ewe miscalculated her route out of a pen)
This is true quality content. Thank you Mitchell Hooper for delving into deadlift history. It was a quite a story to watch, and you narrated so well. Good luck man, keep growing. God bless you!
Amen. A lot of people forget that the day Eddie pulled 500 for the first time, Benny also broke the floor with it, except he attempted it raw. 100% the strongest deadlifter ever in my opinion.
on the day he lifted the 501... for sure he could have lifted AT LEAST 510 kg - the 501 did fly soooooooooo "easily", so fast - that was crazy to watch.
IMO 510. Not enough athletes are going to only train one lift as their careers require mobility too. Julius Maddox is spending a lot of time chasing 800 when he could be breaking other records. 530 would be crazy. That would be like taking a second of the 100m world record. I don't think it is possible. Great video!
Thor should have done more than 501kg would have saved lots of dumb drama between him and Eddie. I hope he does get 510kg in competition and shut it up for good. Eddie almost died pulling 500kg bleeding out his face and Thor did 501kg and went about his day like it was nothing.
I don't think pulling 510 would have shut people up. People don't debate whether it was enough to break the record. Mostly people debate about whether is was legit for him to lift it outside of competition in his home gym. I think if he pulled 505 or 510 the debate would be even more fierce. I'm hoping Hafthor goes and pulls 505 or 510 in a full competition in the next couple years though to finally and definitively end the debate.
@@baconfromhell666 because it wasnt done in comp so you cant call it a comp record, it should stand as its own regulated record, cant be a comp record if there was no competition on the day
@@tackleberry9386 agree, there are athletes that run faster in training then the world record but it doesn't count as a world record. It was the biggest lift out of comp but to call it a world record, not in my opinion. (But that counts for nothing).
Thank you Mitchell Hooper. I can feel very special now. I have made it into one of your videos. I was one of the guys on the way back. It was a very special day to see Andy Bolton pull 1000 pounds. Good luck at rogue. we’re hoping you win.
I could listen to Mitch all day. I love the statistics and breakdown.He's defo the thinking mans strongman rather than just a huge man that will try to grip and rip. Mitch's approach is the way forward for the sport
Benedikt Magnusson pulling 1015 lbs raw with such ease and THEN putting the bar gently down again, is still the most impressive feat of strength I've ever seen.
@AS-bu9rw that's true obviously will use more quads etc, i think of sumo as being more of a cheater's choice when it's done super wide though should have clarified that.
Thors deadlift was valid. And I think on that day he was good for 515kg or somewhere in that region. It would take a type of athlete we’ve never seen to get into 530+
Eventually, we'll either get a genetic freak of nature that can do it, or equipment will evolve even further to make it possible to. Or some combination of the two.
2:19 the grip for that seems...unlikely without straps. Even some top strongmen today struggle with 400 lbs/hand. Barely doing 800 lbs with 2 hands then 727 lbs with 1 hand. I'm not buying the 1-hand. I think something like this at Rogue invite would be cool: X-fitters do their max deadlift. Strongmen start at that max weight and do it 1-handed, but they'd need straps so maybe not a great setup.
Those guys back then were strong, but they were also carnie showmen. Their stuff was as much a trick like a magician would do as it was a physical display of strength. And they were absolutely not above working marks.
@@seanwhitehall4652 A mark is carnie talk for the fans. When they'd see one at the ticket booth with a wad of cash buying tickets, they'd put a small mark on his back so the other carnies would know who to work.
AGREE 1000% on Sumo...nothing at all wrong with it. But you cannot equate them. In the same manner you can't enter a compare a max. bench number with incline or decline bench.
What is impressive about Hafthor, is the displacement of the bar compared to Edie Hall lift. So if you think about it, he performed almost 1/4 more work (w=f.d) than Edie. If you convert this into kinetic energy the numbers would be quite different. I personally think he will break the world record, but the numbers won't be as big as people are speculating. I think something around 502kg.
You're thinking of potential energy, not kinetic. Kinetic energy corresponds to the peak velocity of the weight. Even if Thor moved it higher, that doesn't necessarily mean the bar had a higher kinetic energy at any given point in time. The kinetic energy, however, is slowly being turned into potential energy - and as the taller athlete, Thor indeed would have given the weight more potential energy by the end of the lift.
@@jacknagy2233 I also don't think Thor is 5/4 the height of Eddie. Assuming same ape index, Thor would have to be 2.38m to be 5/4 Eddie'd height of 1.90m
@@jasonhuang6332 People often think of Eddie as "a short guy", and can't fathom that he's almost 1.9m. Mostly because he's so often compared to people like Thor and Brian at over 2m tall. Even so, the ape index aren't the same, not even close. Eddie's reach is reported to be exactly the same as Thor's, that makes a huge difference in the deadlift.
@@jacknagy2233 I am far from being an expert in physics. I see your point, however, I think you are seeing this picture from a different angle which is valid as well. My thought is only to measure Work in numbers between the two lifts taking into consideration the height of each athlete. The result would be in joule which is a unit of kinetic energy.
I never get why Eddies lift counts more for being "in competition" when it was his own bar and he got to choose the weights jumps and rest times (as per Pritchett). He also did not compete after the 1st event
Yeah essentially 80% of his lift went against typical "competition" conventions yet Thor not having a fellow competitor somehow delegitimizes his lift.
@@sfer1 That's the thing though, Eddie took all the time he wanted (far more than typical competition rest time) whereas Thor was on the clock. Plus he didn't have the advantage of half a stadium of people chanting his name. Eddie went after records, which are temporary, and his ego couldn't handle it when his record fell to someone who had multiple major titles... which last forever.
The record is 501kg either way. It was recorded, it was calibrated, it was moderated. Just because the pandemic interfered to cancel the actual comp doesn't mean it invalidates the lift or the hard work that Thor had to put in to make it happen.
@@tonylong-noseiv7303 If you watch his channel you would know that he is strongly considering it for the exact reason that you are proving. Just to shut everyone up that is saying it was not a legitimate lift. I hope he does do it again but we will have to wait and see.
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Yeah I agree with some of the other comments probably from 505-515. Still, his strength has exploded so fast recently he really is built different. I think he'll do at least 505 within the next few years.
People can hate all they want, but Thor's lift was not only legit as hell, it was also done in a single ply suit, while Eddie's was multi ply, and it wasn't even Thor's most impressive deadlift imo, his record on the elephant bar is the highest difficulty of all the deadlift world records
My opinion on Sumo is this; We classify flat bench and Incline bench as different lifts, why shouldn't we classify conventional DL and Sumo as different lifts? It's "technically" the same movement just with a variation on body position, just like flat bench vs incline; and for me personally I can incline bench more than I can flat because it feels more comfortable to me, so I train it more.
Great video. Very informative and a fun trip through the history books! I see LHBK will have a booth at the Arnold. Even though I'm a little lacking in the lift heavy part, I'm extra, extra kind, so I think the math checks out and I'll pick up some merch!
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Update: I did buy a shirt and shortly after saw you at the booth and was able to grab a quick photo and say "hi." Great weekend and congrats on another title!
First off, let me tell you how impressed I am by your meteoric rise in the sport of strongman. I'm an old man, former super heavyweight powerlifter, and as far as I'm concerned, your knowledge and analysis of the strength game, is unmatched in the current field of strength athletes.That coupled with your immense strength, make me proud to call you a North American brother, (being I'm from Michigan, USofA). I would like to see heavy deadlifting without the use of straps, so as grip actually plays a roll in the lift. What say you?
I say it every time it comes up: if 501 "outside competition" is sooo much easier than 500 in competition, why did Eddie not pull 501 at home? Why hasn't anyone else on the planet pulled 500 or 501 at home? Probably because it's borderline impossible for all but the most freakishly gifted human beings alive. In any case Thor's deadlift is looking monstrous and I look forward to him pulling 505+ in competition so everyone will finally shut up about it.
Dude you have some of the best fitness content on TH-cam. I really appreciate the intellectual manner in which you speak and create these videos, it’s such a great resource
Great video Mitch! Thor's lift definitely counts, since records do not have to be done within a greater competition. He was still in front of a ref with fully weighted out equipment. On the day Thor probably could have gotten 505kg. Can he still now, no. Could Thor maybe get back to record breaking form if he stays healthy for the next year.... Probably. Someone like Rauno is a fantastic deadlifter, but I just do not know if he has the physical gifts to get to 500kg+
Value is subjective. Thor pulled the heaviest deadlift of all time verified by a ref. Hall pulled the heaviest deadlift of all time in an official competition. I consider it more impressive to pull 500kg in a competition than 501kg outside a competition, but that's just my opinion, and other people can reasonably disagree.
@@Thelemorf Olympic records can only be set in the Olympics, just like WSM records can only be set at the WSM. That is irrelevant to the discussion of world records in professional strongman. Unfortunately there is no worldwide regulatory body, or universal standards for events. Thor did exactly what he should have done; weighed everything, filmed everything, and had one of the top referees for the sport calling it.
A question - why does strongman allow straps in deadlifting when in many other strongman events grip can be a limiting factor, but these other events don't allow any grip aids ( other than chalk)?
If you discount Thors 501 you have to discount Toms stone record and Oleksii MDB record which was set under the same restrictions in the same WUS event
Thor's 501kg counted and yes, sumo is cheating. It should be it's own lift or removed altogether. It's not the same as conventional and shouldn't be compared to conventional.
There may be a dozen professional strongmen athletes currently that can lift 1000 lbs, but it’s super impressive. A few years ago when it was Eddie, Brian, Thor, Jerry, JF all lifting 1000+ it was crazy. I’m very eager to see how deadlifts go for max at the Arnold’s! Words can’t express how excited I am to see basically all the best guys competing against each other. 5 Worlds Winners, and Mateusz, Evan, Bobby, and Maxime.
Jesse Norris in 2014 deadlifted 825 lbs raw at 196 lbs bodyweight which is 4.2 times his bodyweight; an even greater strength to weight ratio than Ed Cohen's 901 at 220 lbs.
It's generally always easier to pull more compared to your bodyweight when you are lighter. There's plenty of people who have pulled 4 times bodyweight or more, but I doubt there's anyone who's done it that weighs more than 250 pounds.
@@baconfromhell666 Yep. Pound for pound strength is very impressive, but it definitely skew down. Stefi Cohen, tiny female powerlifter, hit a 4x+ deadlift.
I remember in the early 2000’s when people were talking about whether Andy was going to pull 1000lbs, a lot of people on the forums and a lot of athletes thought it was impossible. Amazing how many people have done it less than 20 years later😮
My guess is 505, is the first number that if done in comp is really a standout for the audience in my opinion. Anything lower thant that, no matter what would sound like cheap, like it was done just for the sake of record breaking and not pushing the limits further. Unless im completley wrong and beyond the 500 kg's benchmark 1 or 2 kgs is a huge difference for the lifter.
The plates were weighted. The rest times were calculated. The event was streamed. A known referee was present. People like to say "oh but it wasn't in a competition". Honestly who the fuck cares. It was a sanctioned strongman event, televised, Thor did it under the conditions that were available during covid. It's legit.
@@deltalima6703 PL records are beaten by half a KG sometimes. It's called chipping, but it doesn't take away from the achievement. At this level, you can't expect the record to be beaten by 5+kg at a time constantly.
Deadlift related question Mitch. I personally think one of, if not the, most impressive deadlifting I’ve ever seen was during one of the most amazing deadlift battles I’ve ever seen, the finals of WSM 2017 All things considered, the atmosphere, the incredibly stiff bar, and the fact that everyone had done all of the other events leading up up to it...at least in my humble opinion Eddies 472.5 winning pull at the event was even more impressive than the 500-501 respectively. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that take. But my question is this, do you think we will ever see a deadlift like that again at WSM? I sure hope so but I have my doubts. What are your thoughts? Thanks!!
As far as Thor’s deadlift goes, you have to think about the circumstances. It was during COVID, and maybe he was at his peak. As far as I understand being as big as he was is super unhealthy. So maybe it was like a now or never situation, that’s just my opinion.
I love the deadlift, by far my favourite day in the gym is deadlift day. Eddies 500 was quite possibly the biggest lift there will be for a long time. Not in weight, but in the sense of breaking a milestone. 500kg, half a ton, its the biggest barrier ever to break. That sid, Thors 501 counts in my eyes. MVM was there as head referee. Calibrated plates weighed on live tv before being used. It was only out of competition because of gobal COVID restrictions. I garuntee in 2 years time he will get 510 in a competition and eddies fan boys can finally shut up
When that happens, the Eddie fanboys will just say "doesnt mattetal Eddie did it years before Thor" blabla. Would love to see Thor break his own record. Atleast 510kg. That record will stand for a very long time
Loved the history dive of this one. I do know what your talking about and personally, Id have to give the nod to Hall as he done it in competition. *EDIT* Forgot to mention. I had been a life long sumo deadlifter until starting your program. Once you corrected my form doing them conventional, I really cant see ever going back to sumo.
I fully believe that Thor lifted 501kg. If you want to argue about wether or not is counts as the strongman record then whatever, but he did lift it and it is recorded.
I believe Thor lifted 501, and had at least 10 more kilos in the tank. BUT if the rules say that it has to be done during a competition, than it should not be a WR, the rules must be the same for him as for everyone else.
the thing is that there was no such rule that stated it has to be done in a competition. A world record is a world record. It's only Eddie who started crying and started this whole "has to be done in a competition" thing, meanwhile he didn't do it in a proper competitive competition either.
There is no rule saying it has to be done in competition, strongman doesnt have a set of rules that go beyond federations. Thor did 501 under WUS rules and eddie did 500 under GL rules. If GL doesnt count his 501 its completely up to them. Just like ipf doesnt count wrs done in other federations.
It should be noted that powerlifting conventional without straps is definitely more difficult, not just because of the grip but because the straps shortens the distance a little. The older lifts tend to be on stiffer bars (Ed Coan's e.g.) which also makes a big impact. In short, it's surprisingly difficult to compare all these lifts. 1000 lbs is an incredible achievement in any setting, but if it's, say, done in competition raw on a stiff bar without straps, that's a whole different level.
I think Ed's 901 is safe from the sumo argument since it was on a stiff bar and very unfavorable comp conditions in terms of rest. Dude also pulled like 880 conventional lol
@@cisrael468Yeah his conventional was also crazy too as you say and his sumo wasn't particularly wide. More like a hybrid stance between the two and on a stiff bar. Crazy lift and far more impressive than some of the 1000lbs sumo pulls we've seen recently.
Im kinda curious why the 501 would be less legit than Mitchs 475? The change of equipment is in my opinion a big problem. I dont mind things like the elephant bar since it counts as its own record. However i really hope that the kabuki bar never makes it to strongman and counting it as a regular deadlift. The deadlifts bars used are soft enough.
IMO if you dont think the 501 counts , then we need to go through and remove pretty much all the rogue record breakers series including stoltmans stone record, same sort of thing
I've always thought sumo should be counted separately. Most of the folks I've talked to say the same, the only people I ever hear argue sumo is the same are really short people who generally get a huge advantage using it versus conventional
Thor has the legit world record lift at 501kg, and we all know he could have done more that day. When he put the weight down he was absolutely fine, Eddie literally just about died during and after his 500. Eddies just a crybaby, I don't understand how he even tries to argue, regardless of comp or not.
Sorry but Thor's deadlift is more impressive than Eddie's. Deadlifting in front of a large crowd in competition will draw more emotion/adrenaline out of your body as opposed to your home gym. Not to mention how easy it went up for Thor, whereas Eddie nearly died. This is obviously not to say that what Eddie die wasn't amazing.
Mitch, I’m 42 and been strength training for 8 years now. I’m still making progress albeit slower and more difficult to continue to get gains. So having dived into lifting later in life, do you think I’m more at risk of injury because I’m older or am I less prone to injury because I’m older and my tendons and ligaments have had ample time to grow and my joints may be preserved and more robust?
Sumo vs. Conv..... well, simply by the definition of deadlift Sumo is a deadlift, but is it equal to the conv. lift. No... as you said - those are two very different lifts. It is like log press and axle press, both are overhead presses, but they use quite different groups of muscles combined with the usage of the equal muscle groups. soooo, is it a deadlift... yes is it the same... no
Doesn’t matter who holds the record currently (although I’d argue it’s Eddie). The only thing that matters is that Eddie Hall was the first man to lift 500kg. I think Big Loz put it quite well when he said that he’d surpassed all the world records which were in place when he begun strongman. Every record will (most certainly) be broken, but Eddie was first.
Im just curious how y'all calibrate plates. You can weigh them all day but are they traced to something thats been validated by NIST or EURAMAT? And to what percentage or decimal place before considering it good enough for the record books?
I think it was Lamar Gant who did the first 5 x body weight deadlift. For me Hideki Inaba had the strangest pull, sort of sumo/conventional hybrid. Love the content of this site.
To defeat the argument of sumo vs conventional, just measure the distance moved. So instead of just the weight moved, also include the distance traveled.
GRAB THE DEADLIFT PEAKING PROGRAM BELOW!
moosecoaching.com/pages/deadlift-peak
No, STEROID lifting is NOT impressive!
Any reason this video happened to come out when Brian announced a change to the hummer tire deadlift in the SMOE?
Mitch, what about Chloe Brennan lifting the replica Dinnie Stones.. she was only like 64kg at the time I think
RN anything over 800 is INSANE. check again next decade.
@@steroidsR4losers I don't think steroids is adding much to this deadlift.
I don’t hate on sumo but I agree with Mitch that sumo is way different from conventional and it should be considered as such
I don’t hate it either, I just think it’s different 💪
Yea I'm tired of seeing everyone do sumo also. It's good for targeting glutes in a workout, but that's a different discussion
It is like comparing OHP with BP, two different lifts.
Same. The distance from floor to lockout is different, as is stance. Sumo isn't terrible jist different.
Am I the only one whose glutes feel targeted more on conventional? Maybe because my legs are so long.
Brian just announced that the Shaw Classic will have a “standard” deadlift. We’ll get to see how everyone now compares.
First lift too
Can't wait for that
Hell yeah
Hitching and straps allowed as well?
Shaw keeps making good choices. I'm excited to see what he can do for the sport by making the changes the fans want to see.
Finally someone said it out loud. Sumo and conventional are not the same. Ones not better than the other but you also can’t compare the two. I have a solid conventional but can’t sumo for the life of me. I see people Sumo more than my conventional but can’t even come close to me in my conventional pull. Both require skill strength and effort but they are not the same lift.
I remember 4 years ago, my conventional PR was 555lbs, one of my friends asked me if I could pull more with sumo. So at week 8 of my program I decided to use Sumo on my deadlift day just for fun. To see how far I could take it going up tiny increments at a time. Having never pulled sumo, I made my way slowly to 505lbs. It felt like an odd cheat code. Since I had lower back hernias this was an eye opener to me in regards to how little stress is put on my spinal erectors. I felt it more in my ass and inner thighs than anywhere else. That was the day I refused to equate them as the same lift...Because they are vastly different. Like comparing a strict press to a push press.
@@pHaTtY111111111111 people tend to forget that the legs are more than just quads and hamstrings, there's so many small areas of muscle that are activated with different positions of the legs. if people want to compare sumo to conventional they might as well compare them to a weighted split squat if they're gonna have such a broad category
You can easily fucking compare the two. What is this fucking nonsense?
Figure 8 and raw are not the same, either. Neither is the lift on a deadlift bar vs stiff bar. No straps conventional on a stiff bar is a deadlift. Everything else is purely to get a higher number.
@@ghosthero0806 yup. It's the reason I was still able to deadlift with an inner hamstring tear but as soon as I would trapbar deadlift(an inch or two wider) I would feel massive pain in the hamstring. I can just imagine the pain if I had tried to sumo with that tear.🤣
The intro of the history of the deadlift was a gret intro for this video. Really appreciating the effort you are putting into your content Mitch, it's a nice change from the Mukbangs etc. popularised by other strongmen. You give great solid advice and showcase entertinment that is actually interesting
my opinion is simple for the Eddie and Thor debate, 500kg in the heaviest in competition lift, and 501kg is the heaviest "regulated" lift because there was a ref the plates were weighed it was done in a comp style just for him, the exact same way we all enjoyed Tom Stoltman going for that 300kg stone and Luke Stoltman going for the 230kg Log, was all done in lock down with a ref.
Honestly the Rogue Record Breakers are pretty much the same thing. It is competition standard with refs, but they are stand alone events after the actual competition is over.
I think the weakness in the argument differentiating Eddie's as special or superior because it was a "competition" lift is that he didn't actually finish the competition. He withdrew after the deadlift event.
@@TheAkahige He didn't even withdraw, he wasn't even in the competition at all. He was just a guest for the record breaker competition, just like Benni and Jerry. I understand if you don't want to count Hafthor's lift because it wasn't in a competition, but in no universe are you allowed to count Eddie's lift then either.
@@TheAkahige it was the deadlift world championship though ...... thats what eddie was competing in. Your point holds not merit at all
@@henrikpersson488 that makes no sense at all, They both count as separate records, you cant have Thors count as the competition record because he didnt compete against anyone, pretty sure it was also WUS that organised it a different org than giants live
Wrestling an elephant... those early strongmen were wild 😂
That looked like a VERY small elephant.
Should I try and wrestle an elephant? 🤔
@@danmoyer4650have you tried wrestling an animal of that size?? 🫠
I can tell you, small size doesnt mean they're easy to wrestle with. I've worked with sheep, and those assholes can give some mean bruises (even by accident, had a palm-sized bruise on my inner thigh for a week after a ewe miscalculated her route out of a pen)
@@mitchellhooperstrongman YES! 😍😂
@@mitchellhooperstrongmanYes, since the fight was cancelled.
This is true quality content. Thank you Mitchell Hooper for delving into deadlift history. It was a quite a story to watch, and you narrated so well. Good luck man, keep growing. God bless you!
Trully beautiful and enjoyable analysis, thank you Mitchell/Mitch team for your hard work!
Since benny...if you compare his deadlift .. we have 0 people who come close because every followed 1000 lb lift wasnt raw
Apparently that comp was kinda sketchy and that may not have been 1015
Amen. A lot of people forget that the day Eddie pulled 500 for the first time, Benny also broke the floor with it, except he attempted it raw. 100% the strongest deadlifter ever in my opinion.
on the day he lifted the 501... for sure he could have lifted AT LEAST 510 kg - the 501 did fly soooooooooo "easily", so fast - that was crazy to watch.
I can barely do that in pounds
1k pounds will remain impressive to me
Until I can achieve it
@@Reppintimefitnessthat’s the spirit
I agree, but I don't think the shape he was in for the 501 lift would work in a Strongman competition. He could barely move.
IMO 510. Not enough athletes are going to only train one lift as their careers require mobility too. Julius Maddox is spending a lot of time chasing 800 when he could be breaking other records. 530 would be crazy. That would be like taking a second of the 100m world record. I don't think it is possible. Great video!
What does that have to do with the deadlift?@@jamesyoung3006
LOVE your video and research. So good catching up with you ar the Mr O last year, an absolute pleasure mate :-)
Thor should have done more than 501kg would have saved lots of dumb drama between him and Eddie. I hope he does get 510kg in competition and shut it up for good. Eddie almost died pulling 500kg bleeding out his face and Thor did 501kg and went about his day like it was nothing.
I don't think pulling 510 would have shut people up. People don't debate whether it was enough to break the record. Mostly people debate about whether is was legit for him to lift it outside of competition in his home gym. I think if he pulled 505 or 510 the debate would be even more fierce.
I'm hoping Hafthor goes and pulls 505 or 510 in a full competition in the next couple years though to finally and definitively end the debate.
Wouldn't have mattered even if he had done 580kg, everyone would still be saying "wasn't in competition though, so doesn't count"
580 would be insane though 😅
@@baconfromhell666 because it wasnt done in comp so you cant call it a comp record, it should stand as its own regulated record, cant be a comp record if there was no competition on the day
@@tackleberry9386 agree, there are athletes that run faster in training then the world record but it doesn't count as a world record. It was the biggest lift out of comp but to call it a world record, not in my opinion. (But that counts for nothing).
Thank you Mitchell Hooper. I can feel very special now. I have made it into one of your videos. I was one of the guys on the way back. It was a very special day to see Andy Bolton pull 1000 pounds. Good luck at rogue. we’re hoping you win.
1000 lbs is massively impressive no matter what, I think. That's just an insane amount of weight to move.
Congrats on the new baby, Mitch! #LHBK
I could listen to Mitch all day. I love the statistics and breakdown.He's defo the thinking mans strongman rather than just a huge man that will try to grip and rip. Mitch's approach is the way forward for the sport
. #LHBK
Congratulations on the birth of your baby girl.
Appreciate you
Benedikt Magnusson pulling 1015 lbs raw with such ease and THEN putting the bar gently down again, is still the most impressive feat of strength I've ever seen.
Wasn't Ed Cohen's lift a sumo deadlift? No shade towards Mitchell's explanation on not wanting to compare sumo and conventional, just curious.
Ed lifted sumo in technical terms but his stance was super narrow for sumo, like feet just wider than hands so the advantage in ROM wasnt much at all
@@radthibideaux9978The range of motion is just one part of the equation. Sumo changes your leverages and muscles used.
@AS-bu9rw that's true obviously will use more quads etc, i think of sumo as being more of a cheater's choice when it's done super wide though should have clarified that.
@@radthibideaux9978 Even if it is a narrower sumo stance your hips are going to be closer to the bar, shortening the moment arm.
@@AS-Stardust ay man, when u rite u rite
These videos are soooo good, love the historical background and profesional approach
This was a very interesting video. Thanks Mitch!
Glad you enjoyed, share it with all your friends 💪💪
Thors deadlift was valid. And I think on that day he was good for 515kg or somewhere in that region. It would take a type of athlete we’ve never seen to get into 530+
Eventually, we'll either get a genetic freak of nature that can do it, or equipment will evolve even further to make it possible to. Or some combination of the two.
That shoulder tear is so brutal 😮
it is also fotoshopped
Content is really movin. Keep it coming I’ll be here to watch!!
2:19 the grip for that seems...unlikely without straps.
Even some top strongmen today struggle with 400 lbs/hand.
Barely doing 800 lbs with 2 hands then 727 lbs with 1 hand.
I'm not buying the 1-hand.
I think something like this at Rogue invite would be cool:
X-fitters do their max deadlift.
Strongmen start at that max weight and do it 1-handed, but they'd need straps so maybe not a great setup.
Those guys back then were strong, but they were also carnie showmen. Their stuff was as much a trick like a magician would do as it was a physical display of strength. And they were absolutely not above working marks.
@@jd9119 working marks?
@@seanwhitehall4652 A mark is carnie talk for the fans. When they'd see one at the ticket booth with a wad of cash buying tickets, they'd put a small mark on his back so the other carnies would know who to work.
AGREE 1000% on Sumo...nothing at all wrong with it. But you cannot equate them. In the same manner you can't enter a compare a max. bench number with incline or decline bench.
I think you get extra points if you can break the world bench press record on an incline.
What is impressive about Hafthor, is the displacement of the bar compared to Edie Hall lift. So if you think about it, he performed almost 1/4 more work (w=f.d) than Edie. If you convert this into kinetic energy the numbers would be quite different. I personally think he will break the world record, but the numbers won't be as big as people are speculating. I think something around 502kg.
You're thinking of potential energy, not kinetic.
Kinetic energy corresponds to the peak velocity of the weight. Even if Thor moved it higher, that doesn't necessarily mean the bar had a higher kinetic energy at any given point in time.
The kinetic energy, however, is slowly being turned into potential energy - and as the taller athlete, Thor indeed would have given the weight more potential energy by the end of the lift.
@@jacknagy2233 I also don't think Thor is 5/4 the height of Eddie. Assuming same ape index, Thor would have to be 2.38m to be 5/4 Eddie'd height of 1.90m
@@jasonhuang6332 People often think of Eddie as "a short guy", and can't fathom that he's almost 1.9m. Mostly because he's so often compared to people like Thor and Brian at over 2m tall.
Even so, the ape index aren't the same, not even close. Eddie's reach is reported to be exactly the same as Thor's, that makes a huge difference in the deadlift.
eddie"s knees was don"t locked, they're shaking
@@jacknagy2233 I am far from being an expert in physics. I see your point, however, I think you are seeing this picture from a different angle which is valid as well. My thought is only to measure Work in numbers between the two lifts taking into consideration the height of each athlete. The result would be in joule which is a unit of kinetic energy.
Man how did i not see this earlier! Such a well written video mitch. Love deadlifting 😄
I never get why Eddies lift counts more for being "in competition" when it was his own bar and he got to choose the weights jumps and rest times (as per Pritchett). He also did not compete after the 1st event
Yeah essentially 80% of his lift went against typical "competition" conventions yet Thor not having a fellow competitor somehow delegitimizes his lift.
Eddie just didn’t want Thor taking his record
Because you don't get to choose when you lift and the pressure to perform is a lot higher.
@@sfer1 Except Eddie did get to choose when to lift. Jerry mentioned him and Benni were ready to go but Eddie wasn't so they had to wait for him
@@sfer1 That's the thing though, Eddie took all the time he wanted (far more than typical competition rest time) whereas Thor was on the clock. Plus he didn't have the advantage of half a stadium of people chanting his name. Eddie went after records, which are temporary, and his ego couldn't handle it when his record fell to someone who had multiple major titles... which last forever.
Incredible video, Mitch. Great content and great editing. Well done, mate!! Cheers!
The record is 501kg either way. It was recorded, it was calibrated, it was moderated. Just because the pandemic interfered to cancel the actual comp doesn't mean it invalidates the lift or the hard work that Thor had to put in to make it happen.
Why doesn’t he do it again then in competition?
@@tonylong-noseiv7303 If you watch his channel you would know that he is strongly considering it for the exact reason that you are proving. Just to shut everyone up that is saying it was not a legitimate lift. I hope he does do it again but we will have to wait and see.
@@TonyStark-xc7je Yeah i personally think he has the capacity to lift 515kg however he should just do the 501kg just to prove he’s the undisputed best
I think he should go for 505. Considering how long people have been trying to pull 505 it'd send a pretty strong message.@@tonylong-noseiv7303
This WSM is such a great character. He speaks very well and is very accommodating. Good work.
Yeah I think Thor's 501 counts. Fact is man lifted the weight and I bet he could have lifted more with how well it moved. He's a legend!
How much do you think he could have hit on the day? 👀
@@mitchellhooperstrongman hard to say, anywhere from 505-510.
Sometimes 5 kilos feels like a fucking spaceship was added to the bar.
I'd think he had 510 to 520 in him that day
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Yeah I agree with some of the other comments probably from 505-515. Still, his strength has exploded so fast recently he really is built different. I think he'll do at least 505 within the next few years.
Also have to remember, thor was going to go heavier but didn't, because he had a partial tear on his lat.
You can literally see the social media expert banging into Mitchell´s head "Dude..engage the interaction we need to push that algo!"
People can hate all they want, but Thor's lift was not only legit as hell, it was also done in a single ply suit, while Eddie's was multi ply, and it wasn't even Thor's most impressive deadlift imo, his record on the elephant bar is the highest difficulty of all the deadlift world records
Awesome video! Thank you for all the informations and your comment full of experience!
My opinion on Sumo is this; We classify flat bench and Incline bench as different lifts, why shouldn't we classify conventional DL and Sumo as different lifts? It's "technically" the same movement just with a variation on body position, just like flat bench vs incline; and for me personally I can incline bench more than I can flat because it feels more comfortable to me, so I train it more.
Most people do classify sumo and conventional as different lifts.... And those who do not are wrong lol
Sumo deadlift is like an arched bench and conventional is flat back
Great video. Very informative and a fun trip through the history books! I see LHBK will have a booth at the Arnold. Even though I'm a little lacking in the lift heavy part, I'm extra, extra kind, so I think the math checks out and I'll pick up some merch!
Amazing, make sure you come when I’m at the booth for meet and greets and say hi! 💪💪
@@mitchellhooperstrongman Update: I did buy a shirt and shortly after saw you at the booth and was able to grab a quick photo and say "hi." Great weekend and congrats on another title!
That's awesome, you used my list for 1000 lbs!!!!! Pretty cool😎
that is cool!
First off, let me tell you how impressed I am by your meteoric rise in the sport of strongman. I'm an old man, former super heavyweight powerlifter, and as far as I'm concerned, your knowledge and analysis of the strength game, is unmatched in the current field of strength athletes.That coupled with your immense strength, make me proud to call you a North American brother, (being I'm from Michigan, USofA).
I would like to see heavy deadlifting without the use of straps, so as grip actually plays a roll in the lift. What say you?
I say it every time it comes up: if 501 "outside competition" is sooo much easier than 500 in competition, why did Eddie not pull 501 at home? Why hasn't anyone else on the planet pulled 500 or 501 at home? Probably because it's borderline impossible for all but the most freakishly gifted human beings alive. In any case Thor's deadlift is looking monstrous and I look forward to him pulling 505+ in competition so everyone will finally shut up about it.
It wouldn't matter where Thor pulls it, some people will still not count it.
Dude you have some of the best fitness content on TH-cam. I really appreciate the intellectual manner in which you speak and create these videos, it’s such a great resource
I'm a full thor 501 supporter. 501 is the record.
Such a great time to be alive. Living in world filled with living legends. This is soo fucking awesome 🤩
Great video Mitch! Thor's lift definitely counts, since records do not have to be done within a greater competition. He was still in front of a ref with fully weighted out equipment. On the day Thor probably could have gotten 505kg. Can he still now, no. Could Thor maybe get back to record breaking form if he stays healthy for the next year.... Probably. Someone like Rauno is a fantastic deadlifter, but I just do not know if he has the physical gifts to get to 500kg+
In what sports can you set world records outside a actual competition? Its like setting a olympic record outside the olympic games.
Value is subjective. Thor pulled the heaviest deadlift of all time verified by a ref. Hall pulled the heaviest deadlift of all time in an official competition. I consider it more impressive to pull 500kg in a competition than 501kg outside a competition, but that's just my opinion, and other people can reasonably disagree.
@@Thelemorf Olympic records can only be set in the Olympics, just like WSM records can only be set at the WSM. That is irrelevant to the discussion of world records in professional strongman. Unfortunately there is no worldwide regulatory body, or universal standards for events. Thor did exactly what he should have done; weighed everything, filmed everything, and had one of the top referees for the sport calling it.
@@devlin76 still outside competition, ergo no wr.
@@gillpeakperformance4945 To be fair Eddie pulled it in a "competition", not a competition. Thor's record was under way stricter circumstances.
A question - why does strongman allow straps in deadlifting when in many other strongman events grip can be a limiting factor, but these other events don't allow any grip aids ( other than chalk)?
dude that shoulder tear is gnarly
Right 🤢
It's edited lol
I believe Thor is VERY determined to achieve that record lift. I would not hesitate to put my money on him accomplishing that goal! Great video!
If you discount Thors 501 you have to discount Toms stone record and Oleksii MDB record which was set under the same restrictions in the same WUS event
Damn.
Man's got a whole lap desk for a lap.
Your quads are insane.
Thor's 501kg counted and yes, sumo is cheating. It should be it's own lift or removed altogether. It's not the same as conventional and shouldn't be compared to conventional.
There may be a dozen professional strongmen athletes currently that can lift 1000 lbs, but it’s super impressive. A few years ago when it was Eddie, Brian, Thor, Jerry, JF all lifting 1000+ it was crazy. I’m very eager to see how deadlifts go for max at the Arnold’s! Words can’t express how excited I am to see basically all the best guys competing against each other. 5 Worlds Winners, and Mateusz, Evan, Bobby, and Maxime.
Thor's 501kg absolutely counts
It definetely does. Just wish he was less petty and went for at least another kg lol. And to Eddie's credit, he held the weight fit a few seconds
💪💪💪
@@Jules-t5q tbf the 1kg thing is very typical for record lifts. Eddie has set records by 1kg in the past as well
Except for when he actually jumped from 480 to like 500
Jesse Norris in 2014 deadlifted 825 lbs raw at 196 lbs bodyweight which is 4.2 times his bodyweight; an even greater strength to weight ratio than Ed Cohen's 901 at 220 lbs.
It's generally always easier to pull more compared to your bodyweight when you are lighter. There's plenty of people who have pulled 4 times bodyweight or more, but I doubt there's anyone who's done it that weighs more than 250 pounds.
Bw:w ratio is for manlets. Guess who it benefits?
@@baconfromhell666 Yep. Pound for pound strength is very impressive, but it definitely skew down. Stefi Cohen, tiny female powerlifter, hit a 4x+ deadlift.
1000 lbs? Bro I think a 405 lb deadlift is impressive.
I remember in the early 2000’s when people were talking about whether Andy was going to pull 1000lbs, a lot of people on the forums and a lot of athletes thought it was impossible. Amazing how many people have done it less than 20 years later😮
Thor's 501kg counts! Yes, it wasn’t in competition, but he made it look easier than Eddy pulling 500kg and demonstrated potential for possible 510+.
My guess is 505, is the first number that if done in comp is really a standout for the audience in my opinion. Anything lower thant that, no matter what would sound like cheap, like it was done just for the sake of record breaking and not pushing the limits further. Unless im completley wrong and beyond the 500 kg's benchmark 1 or 2 kgs is a huge difference for the lifter.
that first 1000lb lift with no straps !!!!
Right 🤯
Bene's lift still boggles my mind.
The plates were weighted. The rest times were calculated. The event was streamed. A known referee was present. People like to say "oh but it wasn't in a competition". Honestly who the fuck cares. It was a sanctioned strongman event, televised, Thor did it under the conditions that were available during covid. It's legit.
1 kg is peanuts. I consider it as a tie with eddie, tbh.
@@deltalima6703 PL records are beaten by half a KG sometimes. It's called chipping, but it doesn't take away from the achievement. At this level, you can't expect the record to be beaten by 5+kg at a time constantly.
What's the mininum feet width with a sumo? What's the maximum? Hand width? How do you regulate it as a category?
Deadlift related question Mitch. I personally think one of, if not the, most impressive deadlifting I’ve ever seen was during one of the most amazing deadlift battles I’ve ever seen, the finals of WSM 2017
All things considered, the atmosphere, the incredibly stiff bar, and the fact that everyone had done all of the other events leading up up to it...at least in my humble opinion Eddies 472.5 winning pull at the event was even more impressive than the 500-501 respectively. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that take. But my question is this, do you think we will ever see a deadlift like that again at WSM? I sure hope so but I have my doubts.
What are your thoughts? Thanks!!
Everything 900lbs+ is super human strong. Hell even 700lbs is insane.
I agree with that 💪
Loved the "History of the Deadlift" lesson.
As far as Thor’s deadlift goes, you have to think about the circumstances. It was during COVID, and maybe he was at his peak. As far as I understand being as big as he was is super unhealthy. So maybe it was like a now or never situation, that’s just my opinion.
That was probably all for this time. Great video Mitch!
I love the deadlift, by far my favourite day in the gym is deadlift day. Eddies 500 was quite possibly the biggest lift there will be for a long time. Not in weight, but in the sense of breaking a milestone. 500kg, half a ton, its the biggest barrier ever to break. That sid, Thors 501 counts in my eyes. MVM was there as head referee. Calibrated plates weighed on live tv before being used. It was only out of competition because of gobal COVID restrictions. I garuntee in 2 years time he will get 510 in a competition and eddies fan boys can finally shut up
Believe me they won't! 😂
When that happens, the Eddie fanboys will just say "doesnt mattetal Eddie did it years before Thor" blabla. Would love to see Thor break his own record. Atleast 510kg. That record will stand for a very long time
1:20 Poor Eumastas. He would be pissed to see that 2.600 years later the worlds strongest man referred to him by his father's name XD
520kg if Thor stays healthy!
That's what I'm thinking also. He'll do 505 then scratch his way up as far as he can go
Maybe but I’d love to see him try.
Fairly certain he cracks 500 again though
But not this year, next year.
Could’ve done 505-510kg if it weren’t that small tear in the lat
I am an old school former powerlifter. A 1000# deadlift, with
knees locked, shoulders locked and no straps is still world class!!
Loved the history dive of this one. I do know what your talking about and personally, Id have to give the nod to Hall as he done it in competition. *EDIT* Forgot to mention. I had been a life long sumo deadlifter until starting your program. Once you corrected my form doing them conventional, I really cant see ever going back to sumo.
Andy Bolton also pulled a 1000+ in full SBD comp!
I'm sure Thor gets 505, maybe next year
👀👀
Serge Redding did an Olympic lift bot a strict overhead press....that being said its the most impressive lift ever.
I fully believe that Thor lifted 501kg. If you want to argue about wether or not is counts as the strongman record then whatever, but he did lift it and it is recorded.
Love the historical style video.
I believe Thor lifted 501, and had at least 10 more kilos in the tank. BUT if the rules say that it has to be done during a competition, than it should not be a WR, the rules must be the same for him as for everyone else.
the thing is that there was no such rule that stated it has to be done in a competition. A world record is a world record. It's only Eddie who started crying and started this whole "has to be done in a competition" thing, meanwhile he didn't do it in a proper competitive competition either.
There is no rule saying it has to be done in competition, strongman doesnt have a set of rules that go beyond federations. Thor did 501 under WUS rules and eddie did 500 under GL rules. If GL doesnt count his 501 its completely up to them. Just like ipf doesnt count wrs done in other federations.
It should be noted that powerlifting conventional without straps is definitely more difficult, not just because of the grip but because the straps shortens the distance a little. The older lifts tend to be on stiffer bars (Ed Coan's e.g.) which also makes a big impact.
In short, it's surprisingly difficult to compare all these lifts. 1000 lbs is an incredible achievement in any setting, but if it's, say, done in competition raw on a stiff bar without straps, that's a whole different level.
sumo is different! i think thor can pull a 510 by early next year.
I think Ed's 901 is safe from the sumo argument since it was on a stiff bar and very unfavorable comp conditions in terms of rest. Dude also pulled like 880 conventional lol
@@cisrael468Yeah his conventional was also crazy too as you say and his sumo wasn't particularly wide. More like a hybrid stance between the two and on a stiff bar. Crazy lift and far more impressive than some of the 1000lbs sumo pulls we've seen recently.
Im kinda curious why the 501 would be less legit than Mitchs 475?
The change of equipment is in my opinion a big problem. I dont mind things like the elephant bar since it counts as its own record. However i really hope that the kabuki bar never makes it to strongman and counting it as a regular deadlift. The deadlifts bars used are soft enough.
IMO if you dont think the 501 counts , then we need to go through and remove pretty much all the rogue record breakers series including stoltmans stone record, same sort of thing
Love them both. Huge supporter here. Yes to Thor and Hooper😊👏
Graham Hicks is capable of 505. Thor is capable of 520.
👀
I've always thought sumo should be counted separately. Most of the folks I've talked to say the same, the only people I ever hear argue sumo is the same are really short people who generally get a huge advantage using it versus conventional
Thor has the legit world record lift at 501kg, and we all know he could have done more that day. When he put the weight down he was absolutely fine, Eddie literally just about died during and after his 500. Eddies just a crybaby, I don't understand how he even tries to argue, regardless of comp or not.
Definitely different lifts. Conventional is a hip hinge, sumo is a knee hinge. Would love to hear your thoughts on that Moose.
Sorry but Thor's deadlift is more impressive than Eddie's. Deadlifting in front of a large crowd in competition will draw more emotion/adrenaline out of your body as opposed to your home gym. Not to mention how easy it went up for Thor, whereas Eddie nearly died. This is obviously not to say that what Eddie die wasn't amazing.
Mitch, I’m 42 and been strength training for 8 years now. I’m still making progress albeit slower and more difficult to continue to get gains. So having dived into lifting later in life, do you think I’m more at risk of injury because I’m older or am I less prone to injury because I’m older and my tendons and ligaments have had ample time to grow and my joints may be preserved and more robust?
no comments enabled in supplements video is such a cop out
would you like to moderate the entire comment feed indefinitely for free on every supplement video?
this is a really solid video mitch. class.
Sumo vs. Conv..... well, simply by the definition of deadlift Sumo is a deadlift, but is it equal to the conv. lift. No... as you said - those are two very different lifts. It is like log press and axle press, both are overhead presses, but they use quite different groups of muscles combined with the usage of the equal muscle groups.
soooo, is it a deadlift... yes
is it the same... no
💪
Sumo with straps isn't allowed in any federation so it can't count right?
Doesn’t matter who holds the record currently (although I’d argue it’s Eddie). The only thing that matters is that Eddie Hall was the first man to lift 500kg. I think Big Loz put it quite well when he said that he’d surpassed all the world records which were in place when he begun strongman. Every record will (most certainly) be broken, but Eddie was first.
Im just curious how y'all calibrate plates.
You can weigh them all day but are they traced to something thats been validated by NIST or EURAMAT? And to what percentage or decimal place before considering it good enough for the record books?
520 is possible for Thor if he takes his time greets
Thors lift was legit, why people pretend it's not defeats me. Even if you don't like him, give him props for that lift.
Thor for 520kg
I think it was Lamar Gant who did the first 5 x body weight deadlift. For me Hideki Inaba had the strangest pull, sort of sumo/conventional hybrid. Love the content of this site.
To defeat the argument of sumo vs conventional, just measure the distance moved. So instead of just the weight moved, also include the distance traveled.
Do you think clean and jerk is different from clean and press in the same way that sumo is different from conventional?