Amtrak's French RTG Turboliner: Impressive But Disappointing!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- After the failed TurboTrain experiment of 1968 to the early 1970s, Amtrak decided to try again - this time with a new French-built Turboliner, called the RTG.
While there was much fanfare and enthusiasm about the RTG, it unfortunately did not live up to its expectations.
In this video, we review an article from the New York Times that describes the Turboliner on its first runs in the US.
Being both impressive and disppointing at the same time, it never became Amtrak's answer to many of its issues or passenger train requirements.
With that said, the Turboliner fleet of 6 sets lasted until 1994. The experiment was not repeated. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Another stellar post, these or a derivative of them were in service in the late 90's on the Hudson line, I spent an afternoon at Croton Harmon shooting photos of whatever rolled in and a Rohr Turbine Liner did. There were 3 of them and they became entangled in some dispute between NY state and Amtrak. They spent millions on rebuilding them, then decommissioned them and sold them for scrap for a few hundred thousand
If the State of NY is responsible for the scrapping of these, they have a *lot* to answer to... 🤔
...Every poor sod who's ever had to use Amtrak services on those routes ever since they were scrapped, for a start!
As I recall, retirement came after one of the power cars had a spectacular fire in the station, which emphasized the need for long deferred maintenance. They went into a rebuild program, and never came out.
@@brentboswell1294 Spectacular fire? These weren't using Rolls-Royce turbines, were they? 🌬🇬🇧🔥😋
If so, it also scares me to learn from this that *UKCA* was a thing even _before_ the UK had joined the European Union... 😳
But jokes about my country's highly questionable standards and geopolitical relations aside, the loss of these is an absolute travesty, especially for those in the U.S. who realise that rail _can_ be a fast and efficient way to get around. Sadly I fear the same mindsets that keep rail back in the USA are slowly coming in through the back door here, too... * coughs * *HS2!...* 😉
Yes, I did read that a few of the original RTGs were rebuilt to run with the RTLs, but it didn't last long! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
In the bookcase of several old model train related publishings, my father had a small newsletter that mentioned the inaugural run of the RTG from Chicago to St. Louis.
Must be an interesting newsletter! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I Rode on one of the French RTGs in 1976 from Chicago to Milwaukee. I had transferred from a Denver to Chicago train. What impressed me the most of the RTG was the smooth ride over rough tracks and interchanges. Much like how French automobiles were known for a smooth ride as well. I remember the seats were the same as airliner seats. Had large windows. Too bad these did not go into wider service on Amtrak.
Great to hear your recollection of the RTG! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I believe the Rohr built Turboliner is loosely based off the French version but with adaptions for Amtrak.
It was.
Yes, it definitely was!
The RTG (Tame Turbine à Gaz ( gas turbine train-set) has maximum speed of 160kmh or 100mph. The ones shipped to Amtrak were actual european trains with european couplings and FRA allowed them in USA (which would not happen later). Amtrak did put US couplers at the end of the cap/loco cars so trains could be hauled by conventional loco should the turbine fail.
One aspect of "they ran well" was that Amtrak got a model that was debugged, already in production and already in service without having changes to please US politicians.
On the SNCF front, after 1973 oil crisis, a shift in focus went to electrification, so development of "turbo" trains went to a standstill but for one exception: the very first TGV was under development as a gas turbine train. And it did do trials but never went into service bacause the project quickly morphed to electric TGVs. While there were complaints about RTL interiors, they were still vastly better than the old "heritage" cars they replaced on those runs. Remember, no metroliners went to Chicago/Milwaukee or St-Louis.
Amtrak then got Rohr to build copies of the RTG with modifications (such as all US couplers, heavier construction, US made motors, and much better interiors. The RTLs (as they were called) served the Empire corridor mostly (including Adirondack to Montréal, replacing old Delaware and Hudson trains still in D&H livery). After period of debugging they too became reliable and lasted a fair numebr of years and had better inetriors.
I am not sure that the "turbine" was the big factor and it was more likely the fact that you got a full train with propulsion, coaches and a café car as one unit, something totally new for Amtrak and a quick way to rejuvenate equipment on specific runs. Amtrak knew that tracks are what limit train speeds and having faster train wouldn't retsult in faster schedule because even diesel trains travelled below their onw speed limits. But havibf a modern looking train attracted passenters.
Wow, thanks for all of the info about the RTG and RTL!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I rode the French turbo between Paris and Boulogne in the early 1990s, not long before Eurostar service started. I found it quite usual. I remember seeing the Chicago - Milwaukee turbos in the mid 1970s, never rode. In the mid 1980s, I rode the Rohr turbo between NYC Grand Central and Rhinebeck (near Kingston?) and quite liked it - decent dining car service.
Thank you for watching and for your comment! Lucky you that you witnessed all of that and that you rode the Rohr turboliner!
Rode it from Springfield to Chicago. A definite improvement over the worn-out traditional cars which came uncoupled on a previous trip! It is scandalous that the necessary track improvements on that corridor are still incomplete!
Wow, interesting to hear that experience! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
BTW the RTGs had the ability to use 3rd trail electric to get into Grand Central station while the RTLs did not. (can't remember if Amtrak eventually modified the RTLs but that is a fairly major modification as the turbine has mechanical transmission to the wheels). Like existing P32FCs, these trains are limited in speed while on 3rd rail not only because 3rd rail is inferior, but that function is an "add on" to the locomotive and only needed to get into Grand Central (and now Penn Central).
Interesting to hear about the RTG and its third rail system! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Peugeot of the rails; only the French can love French machinery. I understand the operations people did not like the borrowed electric locomotives either.
Most of France is electrified in the meantime.
LOL. Yes, the french locomotive that Amtrak tried on the NEC didn't work for them. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I rode the turbo liners out of Grand Central to Rochester and they were really cool trains. The ride was good and the food was okay. The trip took 7 hours each way
Interesting to hear! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I rode these trains between Chicago and Milwaukee a number of times. They were nice.
Good to hear! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
These really seemed like a forward thinking idea for the decade. It seems like Amtrak wanted to establish this "turbo-train" corridor brand across the country - kind of makes me think of Austria's OBB Nightjet brand in that regard. A fast intercity service that has a recognizable brand for these trunk lines. It's kind of a shame that these didn't take off, I could see this really taking hold. If they didn't suffer the mechanical problems they did, we could have later generation "turbo"- branded services to this day on heavily trafficked corridors that aren't electrified. I'm thinking like the "Turbo Cascades" or something.
Thank you for watching and for your comment! Good analogy comparing Amtrak's then-planned turboliner routes with some of Europe's specialty branded trains!
The problem with all French rolling stock as employed by Amtrak is the extremly deplorable condition of the track on the US freight railroads used by Amtrak at least at the time. The sad thing though is that now that a lot of US track has seen considerable upgrades, it has usually profited Siemens which because of this original situation, has profited by taking the American market. When I rode on the United Aircraft turbo train from New York to New Haven in the seventies we where sitting near the engineer, and the engineer was constantly reducing speeds due to track speed limitations because of the condition of the trackwork on one of the most traveled lines in the US. To that in the midwest, one has to add dispatchers prioritising freight operations over passenger ones. Sort of like Russia. I even remember seeing the suburban tracks on the New York- New Haven run being replaced with welded rails in the seventies, but without being realigned with matisa like equipment you could visually see the track oscilating from side to side! It seems that the double stack freight train has saved American railroads from extinction, for this they had to get matisa like equipment and realign the track. Thus fairly good track speed can now be acheived in passenger service. Alas, meanwhile it is now in France that defered maintenance is plaguing the SNCF with lousy track, things have come around... Due to the French political not subsidizing the railways as they should.
Interesting...didn't know that France is deferring maintenance! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
never knew this was happening to SNCF, its as if they never learned from Penn central or the Albanian and Bulgarian railways
@@raymondleggs5508 It is the competition imposed by the EU, which encourages lower costs, and inevitably, maintenance and payroll are greatly reduced.
RTG is an abbreviation for the term "Rame à Turbine à Gaz" = gas-turbine multiple unit.
Thanks for the info! An thank you for watching and for your comment!
We gave ourselves a self-guided tour of a set of these when they were in Amtrak's Beech-Grove facility around '86. They were pretty beat up.
Interesting to hear that! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I remember the turbos in Hiawatha service in the 70s. They looked impressive but most of us railfans kinda knew that they were not robust enough for American use.
You're probably right about that! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I did get to ride the turbo train from Penn station to Albany. It did ride nice and had fast acceleration. I heard the main cause for their withdrawal from service was they tended to use more fuel especially when they ran at slower speeds. Amtrak should still investigate newer high speed diesel or other fuel powered trains that could be used outside of electrified areas. There is a market for fast frequent service outside the northeast part of the country.
Must have been great to ride the Turbo! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
At 06:17 is that not the Detroit station building?
I have seen one in GCT in NY, but I do not remember if it was the French RGT or the Rohr version
I think it is the Detroit station! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I remember seeing these things at Grand Central Terminal. It was Amtrak's original Empire Service train before regular Amtrak trains left from Penn station.
Nice that you saw it at GCT! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I t was a long time ago but I remember it.
Looks like something Disneyland would use as a monorail.
LOL, agreed! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
4:58 Is that an Amfleet between two Gallery Cars in the background?
I think so! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Start a train design with a high wear fuel guzzling turbine instead of a diesel. Buy it foreign, so you'd have a better time finding parts for a Russian missile. Take it up to a speed that no train on steel tracks should run at. A freight locomotive and high quality passenger plus freight cars would provide superior ticket cost and safer slower trips. We don't need to purchase abroad to buy screwey trains.
LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Pre TGV.
Yes they were! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The bigest Problem with French Equipment is that Les Anglosaxons just cant pronounce it😂
LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The train even looks like a wrapped baguette
LOL! Just warm it up and add butter! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
"Sest see bone" was written as "C'est si bon." in the article, and should be pronounced approximately "Say see bo(n)". It is understandable for an English-speaker to say "bonn" for the last word, although the fully French pronunciation is more complex. I wish the narrator had done rudimentary research on pronunciation.
Ok! Thank you for watching and for your comment!