Leyland Experimental Vehicle Railbus in USA: UNFIT AND UNWANTED!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- In about 1980, the Carter Administration and the FRA was looking for a fuel-efficient passenger rail vehicle for various commuter services throughout the US.
They happened upon the Leyland Experimental Vehicle railbus.
The first one, LEV-1, was brought over, but quickly returned as being too inadequate.
A second railbus was was imported - this time bigger than LEV-1. It was called LEV-2.
LEV-2 turned out to be totally inadquate for any passenger service in America. Complaints of it being uncomfortable and unreliable plagued it continually.
LEV-2 was sold numerous times, to end up in a trolley museum in Connecticut. The museum did not see LEV-2 as a valuable part of its collection, and it met its demise at the scrapper's torch in 2021. A later railbus, the RB004, was sent to the US and tested on SEPTA's regional rail. Like LEV-2, it did not go over very well, and it was taken out of service very quickly.
This is the story of the British railbus in America. Unfortunately, it was not a successful one. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
The Class 142 Railbus was like Marmite, people either loved them or hated them. The pro's about the Class 142's was that there is more windows to look out of on the journey but that was all they really had going for them. As where the Class 150/1 has less windows, but the Class 142's were bouncy, they made a loud ear splitting screech on points and curved track due to being two axle per car and that's why most people hated riding on them. The Class 150 Sprinters that was built in the same year were on trucks with 4 axles per car and they were much better. British Rail had two other Railbus types that were the Class 143/144 but these were built by BREL/Walter Alexander and had the same two axle per car and were just as much hated by the passengers too. They lasted from 1985 to 2019 when they finally replaced by the CAF Class 195's and the cascaded Class 319 units from London in 2017 and the Class 195 units in 2019. Although many heritage railways like the Colne Valley and the East Lancs Railway has some in preservation. LSL Trains also owns in the GMPTE (Great Manchester Passenger Transport Executive) "Tomato Soup" orange livery as well. Hornby makes a model of one in OO gauge if ever you wanted a model of one of those Class 142's. Great video as always buddy.
Thanks for all the great info on these cars! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Anytime buddy. I am an ex-railway man myself and if you need any info. Just reach out and I will at least try to help.
Marmite is Delish!
@@dennisyoung4631 I agree, but don't tell the neighbours lol! ;).
LEV 1 still exists in the uk on the wensleydale railway LEV 1 was based on the highly successful Leyland national bus body, married to a freight wagon.... LEV 2 was based on the Leyland National mark 2, the design later went on to become the Pacer trains two or three car units, with a design life expectancy of 10 to 15years, but many survived for almost 40 years, and they saved many lines from closure, as the first generation multiple units were becoming tired.
Thanks for the additional info! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@JeffreyOrnstein you might want to look at the history of Scottish bus company W. Alexander and sons, how they grew from one or two vehicles in the 1900s to huge company, to being government owned and now one of the largest bus body builders in the world- alexander Dennis it's a great story.
Here on Vancouver Island there is an abandoned railway made into a public walk and biking run called The Galloping Goose Trail running from Victoria to Yubou The trail was named after a old 1930's era railbus called a Galloping Goose featuring a large bus shape with its long hood engine cover and classic 30's radiator grill. The goose was used to transport mine workers and commuters to Leechtown a once thriving but short lived gold and copper mining community operating from 1910's to 30's .
Very interesting - did not know that! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
When these awful things were being fisted on those of us who live on branch lines in the North East of England we were told that the problems of the previous generation of 4 wheel railbuses had been completely overcome and these new trains would revelutionise travel on our lines.
The problem was that they suffered from all of the same troubles as the earlier railbuses of the late 1950s!
They were anything but
comfortable to ride on when used on jointed track which was still in use on most of the branches where they were used. The ride was just about tolerable when they were on cwr track on the main line, though they still managed to find every defect to bounce over. The long fixed wheelbase made screeching noises on the curves which are plentiful on most of our branches. So loud they soon gave you a headache. The original low backed bus seats were terribly uncomfortable and were soon replaced with something a little better on most units. That they survived for almost 40 years just about sums up the attitude of British Rail towards its customers. Thank God they've gone at last! We no longer have to put up with paying to ride in the comfort level of a cattle truck, and there haven't been any of those here for about 50 years either.
Thanks for an interesting video that has brought me up to date on the LEV2 and it's life in the USA.
Very interesting to read about your experiences with the railbuses! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Hey Jeffrey, I really like your content and the style of your videos. I’m glad I ran across your channel 😊
I really appreciate the positive comment and that you found my channel! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Hi Jeffrey, I really enjoy your interesting videos! Keep em comin' !
Hello! I really appreciate your positive comment! Thank you for watching!
GM tried a similar concept with the "Aerotrain" in 1955. Now, it was an actual train but used GM bus bodies for cars. It suffered the same ride quality issues that the LEV and others would later suffer. However, the Rock Island actually used them for a number of years in Chicago commuter service. Amazingly both trainsets are still in existence. One is in Green Bay and the other is in St. Louis.
Yes, the Aerotrain!!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The original Leyland bus model upon which it was based was a very successful bus in the U.K. On my visits there, I saw them all over the U.K., primarily in secondary system and "suburban" towns.
Thank you, Glenn for watching, and for your informative comment!
Building a passenger car on a freight car chassis just sounds like a bad idea.
Makes me think they'd be built heavier duty/easier to service. but also dismal ride quality/comfort.
LOL, yes it was sort of a bad idea! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein - I know the whole story about the LEV, and the fact that it came from British Rail's research department, but a four wheeled passenger carriage seems like an idea that should have never even reached the drawing board.
It was the long fixed 2-axle wheelbase that was the problem. If they'd chosen a chassis with trucks (bogies in UK) it could have had a much better ride quality, but why go for heavy freight car trucks when lighter equipment was also available. Fixed wheelbase freight cars have lasted longer in Europe than in the USA, with some still operating today. Britain in particular hung on to its tiny short wheelbase 4 wheel trucks for a long time, partly because many of the loading facilities in customer terminals had been established in the 1800s and couldn't handle larger vehicles.
We had to deal with them in the UK for over 40 years! The pacers were an absolute nightmare.
The production versions of the LEV project, the Pacers (classes 141-144), lasted until 2021 in the UK. I grew up in West Yorkshire (the region which pioneered the Class 141s) and these trains were a big part of my childhood.
On the ride quality thing, they weren't great in the early years as many of the routes they operated still had old jointed track. As Continuous Welded Rail (CWR) began to be installed on the secondary routes the Pacers operated on, the ride issues lessened. The screeching on sharp corners was always a problem though!
That booklet looks really interesting, would love to see a video where you go through it. The Class 141 on the cover was enough to trigger nostalgia in me!
Great information on the Pacers, thanks! I'll look into doing a video on that booklet. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Some of the withdrawn class 141s were sold to Iran in the mid 2000s
Subscribed from Scotland, good luck with the channel!
I definitely appreciate your kind words and for subscribing!! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Fiat ALn 668s were also tested on MBTA, with similar non-success. Back in Italy, the ALn 668s (and variants) actually did quite well and are only now being edged out of service simply due to age and the interest in running dual / tri-mode trains. Many ALn 668s (and variants) were also exported to Yugoslavia and were decently successful at their job. Small DMUs as a whole have been very successful in Europe in other countries, especially Germany, Austria, and Czechia.
Back in the USA, there was also the attempt to do a modern version of the Budd RDC by Budd themselves named the SPV-2000. It was basically an Amfleet I with a diesel powertrain. Similar to the Metroliner EMU, the vehicles' chasis was completely fine since it was basically an Amfleet, but the electrics and powertrain were a total disaster. Quite a shame really, because it helped seal the fate of lower ridership branchline services dying and helped seal Budd's fate. Also, the failure of DMUs in the USA until recently (Thankfully the Stadler FLIRT is reviving this) means that commuter operations even that run only 2 car consists use a full loco + bi-levels, which seems kind of wasteful compared to DMUs like the FLIRT.
Ok, thanks for that clarification! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
In the UK barely anyone liked the pacers, apart from perhaps enthusiasts. They were originally brought in in the 80s to fill in a gap in rolling stock availability, only meant to be in service for less then 20 years, however due to lack of investment in lines in the North of England and Wales, the last of these were not retired until 2021.They were noisy, uncomfortable, and had too little capacity for the lines they were put on, but they struggled on none the less for over 40 years.
Interesting! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein No problem. Thanks for explaining the pacers, relatively unknown, at least to me(I knew about SEPTA's but none of the others) American history.
As well as these experimental vehicles BR Research also built a coach body mounted on the underframe of a MK1 coach, the MK1 being our most common type of passenger car. It was used as an evaluation vehicle on trains between Manchester and Brighton, a very long journey in UK. The seats were better than the ones used in LEV2 but not really suitable for long distance travel and passenger feedback was not in favour of it. It was withdrawn in 1983 and is now preserved somewhere. If the type of seating used in this had been put in the LEV2 it would of made a more comfortable vehicle and the old underframe idea fitted with engines would probably of been as good as the old type multiple units the 141 units were built to replace. Fine for a commuter train but the pacer was all about cheap to build and operate.
Interesting info, thanks! I wonder how it would have compared to a Budd RDC, of which no real successor was built in the US. Which is why these railbuses were imported in the first place.
@@JeffreyOrnstein I think it could of been very like the Budd RDC if they had gone with that idea. Sadly we will never know.
4:15 To see a British railbus alongside Toronto commuter coaches in service in Boston is awesome and very international.
Yes, it sure is an interesting shot!!
In the UK, the Pacers were only meant to be a stop-gap solution until proper trains arrived. They were slow, uncomfortable and very noisy. Of course, some people found them charming and liked them, but for most, it was an image of what is wrong with UK trains, especially if you live outside the affluent areas. It took accessibility regulations almost 40 years later to finally get them off our network
Very interesting info! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
yeah they were meant to be replaced by sprinter units eventually...
as with everything in britain temporary is atleast 20 years if not more.
They must have been made reliable. They did keep branch lines open.
Interesting video Jeffrey, shame it got scrapped. They weren't really unsuccessful in the long run as they morphed into the 14x family yes they had problems but these were sorted and they probably saved quite a few branch lines over here
I have a bit of a soft spot for them as I used to drive them 30 years ago and I'm a massive BL enthusiast. I would have liked to have seen LEV 2 return as it looks pretty cool with national 2 cab ends
Cheers Russ
Yes, it's unfortunate that the LEV 2 was not given a chance to live! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Nobody has mentioned the next stage of development; the BR Class 153 and 155. The bodywork was again based on a widened version of the Leyland National body but with an Leyland designed Underframe and proper bogies or 'trucks' in US parlance. A number of these are still in service.
Thanks for the additiional info on the 153 and 155! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
One of these was tested out on the LIRR Oyster Bay branch.
Interesting - did not know that! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Pacers were also plagued by issues and thought their entire service life - which was far too long - passengers complained about the terrible ride quality. Given they were derived from these things that shouldn’t come as a big surprise!
LOL, if only the ride quality was improved on these things....Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The Pacer trains , which were built as a temporary measure intended for only a maximum of 10 to 20 years.
The last Pacers were finally taken out of service in 2021, 37 seven years since being brought into service.
They were mainly used by Northern Rail , the train company that operates all over the North of England.
SEPTA dumped there's way sooner than that.
Very interesting...didn't know they were meant for only a short service life. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I heard after one day, SEPTA got rid of it, LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I've ridden on Pacers, and they remained noisy, clunky, and uncomfortable until they were retired from service in 2021.
But... Since I only ever travelled on them for a maximum of 20 minutes, they were fine. They made sense for short journeys, but I pity anyone who had to stay on one for over an hour.
@Machodave2020 you are correct Philadelphia was the only one to use them in service the Fox Chase line R8 Newtown Junction Fox Chase Chestnut Hill West. The Class 141
No more singing! Only information.
LOL, ok! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It might have been brarable if flanged whells put onto bus axeks keeping road suspension.
But, the trolly museum should have preserved it as a stationary display, as obviosly keeping running order hatd.
yes, they should have kept it, somehow. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The ALN668 railcars were, and are, numerous and successful in Italy. They do exactly what they were designed for, and are only now being edged out by Stadlers etc.
Good to hear abou the ALn668! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
A bit nicer looking than the Pacer, in my meagre opinion. Interesting that the cab and door were not reversed (right hand drive vs left hand drive) for the US. Rode the Fiat product, or something very similar, near Vicenza in the early 1990s - much closer to a Budd RDC than a Pacer I thought. Never saw it on The Rock.
Interesting info! Fiat had some interesting diesel railcars. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Didn't one of these British Rail Class 142 get sent to BritIsh Columbia, Canada when the Expo 86 World's Fair was on in Vancouver? I seem to recall that during the summer of 1986 a BR railbus like this was operated on a passenger run from New Westminster to Abbotsford, BC?
Not sure... but possibly. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Yes we did send one there. I have a photo in a book somewhere. I think another vehicle was sent as well.
Railbuses are a jack of all trades master of none solution that never ever really worked out in the real world much the same way bus rapid transit fails to impress whenever and where ever its built... It's almost like the bus part of any solution is the failing point... ;-)
LOL, you are probably right about trying to solve this kind of problem with a bus. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Well there good in 1 area, being cheap and it shows.
Can you cover the Leyland National bus they were based on. I'd love to hear an American's impression.
I know the USA wasn't exposed to them but plenty who visited the UK over the years would have been as thousands operated across the country for three decades.
London Transport alone had over 500. Caracas Venuezuela had 450 LHD ones ordered in 1975.
PS car designer Giovanni Michelotti did the finishing touches to the body design.
That's a good idea, about the Leyland National. I have several Ian Allan books about it. I sort of liked the design of them. But on versions where the roof pod was removed, it seemed to change its look, and not really for the better! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein they do look odd without the pod!
Glad you see that too!
Cleveland ran them to see if they can be used for expansion for their rapid transit expansion to the suburbs
Yes, there was one in the Cleveland area for a short time! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Jeffrey if they're successful then we would have seen SEPTA MBTA buy Class 141-144 Pacers to run on lines that needed them. Later finished off by Stadler Alttenrhein/Salt Lake City, UT GTWs and Flirts around 2020 COVID year to now.
Yes...IF they were successful, LOL. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
I don't know how these bus/train hybrids are not more common. While they would be great for smaller towns that are farther out from cities, larger and or articulated models could be used for larger towns to feed into cities who don't have ReR and in most systems may stop at the ends of their lines far out a cities center.
Could be a good idea (but won't ever happen)! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I watch every video you make as I have always been looking for a channel about buses
As well as the poor ride quality, these and pacers, two or three car derivatives of the same basic platform, were also very noisy on tight curves due to flange squeal of the long fixed wheelbase, quite common on the type of minor lines they were intended for. They were also unreliable in operating older lower voltage track circuits. A batch of the pacers were sent to Devon and Cornwall to take over the local and branchline services. They were branded as 'Skippers' (possibly a nautical reference in this marine dominated region), and finished in a modern pastel interpretation of the historic chocolate and cream car livery of the old Great Western Railway. After several hair-raising train disappearance events, an urgent project was launched to upgrade all the track circuits in the area to a higher voltage on the rails. The trains, like many of the 1980s DMU rolling stock and maintenance of way equipment with similar problems, were fitted with an onboard electrical gadget that circulated high frequency current around the wheels and rails to break down any contact resistance and 'wet' the circuit so track circuit current could flow more effectively. The initial west country Skipper fleet lasted only a few years and was considered unsuitable for the lightly used branch lines it was explicitly ordered for. The trains were sent to join the pacers in the north although some came back to Devon a few years later. They weren't too bad on the mainline, fairly straight and all welded rail, so they were good for the local services between the expresses. Jointed short section rail and tight curves on secondary and branch lines were the units' nemesis. Their appearance moving along such track led to the nickname 'nodding donkeys' (among others).
Very interesting information about the Pacers! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
It is a shame it didn't come back to the UK. Many heritage lines are after cheap to run railcars that can be used for relief alongside steam due to rising costs, there are also no currently operational units with TL11 engines fitted so at the least this could have provided spares for the time being to create one working example.
Think LEV 1 is preserved somewhere. ontop of tons of production pacers notably 142's.
LEV 1 at Wensleydale I think
@@davidty2006 All 142s now have Cummins LTA10s now along with recently destroyed 141113.
@@davidty2006 No 142s, 143s, or 144s remain with Leyland engines or SCG transmissions. One of the two surviving 141s has original Leyland and SCG but this unit is only good for static exhibition now due to the lack of spare parts to keep it running, despite two full original 141 units recently being scrapped in 2019 as no parts were recovered from those. The other remaining 141 had Cummins engines fitted, it does run (or did run) but is (or was) the only operational 141. There is potentially a two car prototype though I have absolutely no idea if this still survives as the most recent photos I have seen of it are from a while ago while the two Metro-Cammell Sprinter prototypes were still around.
Yes, too bad the museum in Connecticut didn't work out anything with a museum in the UK. Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Built on a freight car chassis likely to make it strong enough to meet crash impact standards.
Whose standards? LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
The idea started on BAD FOUNDATIO., that it was built on 4-wheel FRIGHT chassis with non swivling weels, garanteing bad ride.
2:38 2:38
Yeah, it was overall a lousy idea! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
America: *hates buses and passenger rail*
Britain: Hey America, want to buy this bus-train?
LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Just another waste of taxpayer's money from what had to be one of the most incompetent presidents in my life.
LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
Two problems with this machine...
1. British.
2. Leyland.
LOL! Thank you for watching and for your comment!
3.Americans
The British HST (and its Australian cousin), of the same era, was a very successful design. Leyland buses of the 70s were somewhat better than most of their cars.
No worse than most American junk to come out of Ford or G.M😅