I just watched the documentary, it's so well done in such an authentic way. I'm LDS and yep live in Utah and attitudes, hearts, beliefs need to change, not only here but everywhere. Dan and Tyler were right on the mark when they were singing Love One Another. Children all over this planet are born loving and are then taught to mistrust and hate. I sincerely hope people watching this take time to really find this part of their personal humanity
By THIS shall men know ye are my disciples IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER. True disciples of christ have LOVE. That is what separates the wheat from the tares. (Just some food for thought) 🙂
I'm a fairly active Mormon that lives in Utah. I agree that people need to be more understanding and not to judge so much. I love everybody, and that 100% includes the LGBT+ community.
I'm a active LDS member in Indiana and one of our biggest things is not to judge but I filled our church is one of the worst at doing such thing need to see everyone though gods eyes.
Dan, my family and I have been Mormon converts for 30 years. I've never lived in Utah but I've heard the Mormons there are different than those in Texas. Over the past 30 years, to us the church has changed a lot. Its been a struggle for us but we are still in good standing with them. By comparison with the past, I would say the church isn't too stubborn to change from within. Please don't be ashamed for leaving BYU the way you did. You've done wonderful things with your life and you should feel good about yourself. By no means are we "perfect" and anyone who would judge us is "imperfect" themselves. They obviously need our help so let's pray for them.
Queenie Bee The thing is if you just pray for the "judgmental" nothing ever changes. Especially when it was the "prophets" who taught this as scripture and then tried to put it into law with prop 8 and sex shame (for all sex especially masturbation) pounded into one at home and in one-on-one closed door bishop's chastity interviews where they can ask any sexual question to children as young as 8 without any other adult present not even one's parents. I know this first hand. (Pioneer heritage with every 19th century ancestor and I was a mormon in and outside of Utah.)
I completely understand. I was born to a mother that is straight up, devout, follow without question Mormon. I was never comfortable in the church and as soon as I could I got out. I have some stories like this too. I made peace with soul and found my path and this dismayed my mother and the church who til this day try and save my soul. I am Wiccan among other beliefs and practices. I am at peace and happy, finally. Don't ever follow blindly, always ask questions and settle only for that which brings you inner peace and happiness, whatever that path may be. Namaste
+Vickie Cawley: Congrats Vickie! Living authentically is priceless. I'm so happy that you've found your way and have forged your path on your own terms.
Lunatic4Bizcas , thank you. It was not easy and was many years in the making but very much worth the struggle. Breaking away from the "fear" that is used to control you is the toughest.
Wow, I didn't know Mormons were so strict. Kicked out of BYU for having sex, actually really being kicked out because he was honest in his confession, many probably lie. And the suicide rate makes me cringe, I always admired Mormon famies, they seemed so loving, caring, putting family first. Dan, I admire you for bringing this issue into the light. I believe God is love and knows what you are doing and approves.
@Jim Caponzi hi there friend. For context, I have a really big issue with the church of Jesus christ of later-day saints (aka mormon church). I was raised in it and I think it is a fraud and an extremely unhealthy religion. But.... Your understanding of the religion is very obviously warped and misguided and I have an issue with ignorance even when it is used to attack something I also dont like.
Not all, but many mormon people are genuinely kind loving and wonderful people. That being said, I am not a fan of the religion itself. (I was raised in it and believed for over 20 years. I'm glad to have left it) There is also a major cultural issue where mormon people try to make themselves and their family appear perfect and happy. The pressure to be perfect fosters alot of shame and hidden depression which coupled with the church's teachings on homosexuality very likely correlates with high suicide rates. The standards of the church are extremely strict and they especially take what they consider "sexual sin" extremely seriously. In fact it's often considered 2nd to murder for how sinful it is. Any sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage and any homosexual act is considered sexual sin. Many do lie in confession and if you tell the truth and have committed a "serious" sin the repentance process is often very emotionally painful, long (several months or even years), and involves alot of self and social shaming techniques to make the sinner feel sufficiently remorseful before being granted access to the atonement of Jesus christ for forgiveness. In my opinion the process is highly emotionally abusive. I've been through it. As for BYU. Yes. If you break any of the honor code rules you can get kicked out. The honor code is very similar to the church standards but surprisingly is even stricter than the church itself even if you go to BYU and are not a member of the mormon church, you still have to follow the mormon rules (which also means no coffee) . You even have to follow the rules while off campus and students are encouraged to tattle on each other. Plus I've taken BYU classes and the education is very biased to favor things that do not conflict with mormon theology and is subpar in quality. But many mormon people feel it is the college to go to because it is a mormon college.
Wait..you’re telling me Joseph Smith invented Mormonism? No...no way. Mind=blown. Oh my heck...I thought it was revealed to him, but you’re telling me he made it up. Oh man, I’m straight up having an identity crisis.
I am glad they kicked him out . He turned out way better than he would have if he stayed. Now he is helping millions of us. I thought he was gay too. I didn't realize he wasn't and is married with 3 kids. He is amazing!
As an LGBTQ member/supporter, non-LDS (Mormon), resident of a small town in Utah I've personally witnessed devastating bullying from, not only LDS kids, but also their parents, towards the LGBTQ community. I've known far too many LGBTQ youth, both LDS and of other faiths, take their lives because of the negative stigma that permeates throughout Utah. While the bullying and shaming are coming predominantly from the LDS church it also rears its ugly head from other faiths. It's a sad epidemic that's growing exponentially here in Utah and I believe it's fueled by the LDS church's negative stance on, not only our LGBTQ community, but also other faiths and ideals that don't align with the Mormon agenda. That being said, I also know, and am close friends with many LDS members who don't agree with what they're being told to do and how to treat the LGBTQ community by their elders, their bishops, the quorum of 70, and their Church president. The world is rapidly changing and if we truly want to have better lives for our future generations we need to teach more tolerance, peace, acceptance and far less hate. We have to share this little blue marble called Earth. It's all we have and if we lose it, we lose each other. Be kind to one another!
Laure Lind idk I'm not Mormon but they helped me get clean of heroin so they have a special place in my heart still not Mormon but they spent thousands on my rehab and suboxon
Laure Lind I am so sorry that you have been bullied. That is NOT what we are taught to do in the LDS faith. I am active Mormon living in Utah and I am firm believer of the doctrines and teachings of the church. I would like to point out that the Prophet, Apostles and general authorities have NEVER taught nor have they ever condoned bullying of any kind. Regardless of ones sexual preference or faith. If you only knew the church’s generous donations to other religions you would be truly humbled by the good work that they do. They have even gone as far as helping pay for the building of Muslim mosque. We believe that Heavenly Father loves All of his children gay or straight. That being said we also believe in keeping all of his commandments. I hope that you can have better experiences with LDS people in the future.
I applaud YOU...having been raised LDS in late 60s..served Mission..married in Temple..Gathered 4 children..and Gay! Finally in 1991 came "out"..counseling..divorce..forgiveness and work through the guilt & shame..met & married my husband (28 yrs ago)...never looked back..Thank You for sharing your bravery and advocating for those LDS youth who struggle with a Church who casts them as less than
Dan's struggles made him who he is now. Go on with your bad self Dan. :) Amazing things happen when you move toward the truth, no matter the short term loss. All of us (institutions included) will rise or fall with our/their level of acceptance and humility when it comes to the truth. Learn from the struggle, seek the truth and move towards it and be thankful for your chance to do the next right thing.......
Jehovah's witnesses do the same. I left that cult after 11 years and feel very happy. Luckily I was an only witness in my family otherwise they would shun me. Feeling free from false doctrines and church leaders makes me satisfied. I continue reading the bible and the more I read the better I realize that LOVE is the only true religion nowadays
The Church teaches against judgement of its members, do not for one second equate the behavior of members with church theology. Look it up. Yes the Church does not support gay marriage or sex before marriage, but we are to love and support those who struggle. Who doesn’t struggle? Christ is the only perfect person to live on this earth. I hope somehow you’re reading this, Dan. God loves you and never intended for you to feel miserable, that’s not what His church teaches.
That may not be how the church teaches but that’s how MANY of its members respond to someone else in the Mormon faith doing something different. It’s hypocrisy in its truest form. Gay marriage or being gay is not a “struggle”. Being gay doesn’t make someone imperfect. I truly understand and believe that you have every good intention; however, this line of thinking is what causes the problem in the first place.
atrain84 I completely agree with you that it is hypocrisy, and it absolutely needs to stop. And btw anyone who is gay (AKA ME 😁) knows that it really is a struggle under any circumstances.
specialkaye87 I know, members are idiots sometimes. But that doesn’t mean that the Church isn’t true! The theology and authority are from Christ, and God calls imperfect people to accomplish his work.
Jim Caponzi your intolerance and hatred towards others is adorable and completely unbecoming of a disciple of Jesus Christ, who taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. You clearly have not been converted unto Christ. I invite you to read the Bible and to follow Christ’s teachings.
Shame is the emotional impact one may feel when one comes to an assessment that one has broken a public rule. Guilt is the emotional impact one may feel when one comes to an assessment that one has broken a personal, internal to that person, rule. very different Guilt and Shame. And it's just an assessment. Guilt or Shames impact is making yourself wrong for breaking the internal or community rule, respectively. It takes self forgiveness to end the self wrong making. God has already forgiven you, as he knows your heart better than anyone. Your actions that resulted in an assessment that leads to guilt or shame, God gets you are human.....and its no big deal to him/her/it. Others may also judge you, and that is their folly to deal with.
Answer: every single bishop that is following the rules. BYU has what's called the honor code and in order to gain admittance to the school a religious leader is supposed to make sure you are following the honor code. If you break the honor code you get kicked out. And if anyone (including bishops in confession) finds out that you broke the honor code they are supposed to tattle on you to the school and then you get kicked out. So if you dont want to get kicked out of the school, either you follow the rules or you lie really really well.
No man can serve two masters. Every individual's journey with God is unique and personal. He reveals to us through the scriptures, his servants and through revelation that his will for us is to save sexual intimacy for marriage. If we don't, we are sinning and we become subject to the heavenly laws we have promised to be obedient to through baptism. This is why we have the atonement and the repentance process, which is set up and lead by Him. Requiring repentance is not 'shaming' and it's not religion that 'shames', though I strongly feel your repentance experience depends on 1) what you truly want your life to be and 2) if you're Bishop truly helps you feel the love of the Lord and not the effects of his personal judgment as a man. That being said, feeling ashamed is a consequence of sin. The Lord wants to protect us from feeling that way, that is why he wants us to follow him. Let's be honest...we put ourselves in this situation, the need to repent. It doesn't mean that we are doomed. But we simply must take responsibility for our own choices. We do not strive to be obedient to church officials. We are obedient to God. His full gospel is only found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints...and that DOES NOT mean we think we're better than everyone else. No one is perfect. We are all sinners. People are human. We have incredible challenges, some more than others. People have a God given right to be Christians and also not to be. But there is no strength or salvation in fence-sitting.
So if the shame is brought on by sinning then shouldn’t EVERYONE walk around in shame and hating life? I mean honestly, if the understanding is that everyone sins why do some get treated differently? The shame didn’t materialize out of nowhere. If your religion tells you that you should be ashamed of who you are then your religion is completely responsible.
Mormon confession is supposedly meant to bring you closer to God but mormons also believe that bishops are "judges of Israel" and can judge when a person has sufficiently repented in order to be forgiven by Jesus. In order to "sufficiently" repent (according to mormon theology) the sinner has to feel bad for what they did, confess, make amends, and never commit the sin again before they believe God will forgive. This process can take months or years if the sin is considered "serious" and several tactics are used to make the sinner humble and feel bad enough for their sin. They often have to read books and scriptures that talk about how horrible they are for sinning, they aren't allowed to participate in certain practices including the taking of the sacrament (mormon equivalent of the catholic eucharist), and they cant go to the temple which is really important to mormons as they believe that the ceremonies they do in the temple are necessary for salvation. Mormons also only go to confession for things that are considered serious. Smaller sins are believed to be repentable with out a bishops help. So even though there are similarities, catholic confession from what I understand is very different than mormon confession. (Oh and by the way I was raised mormon and lived it for over 20 years, but am no longer mormon)
@@GrandmasFolly You have an excellent point. Same sex attraction is not sinful. It is the physical act that sinful. We are all broken and struggle with sin everyday. The problem is that the LDS church thinks it is alright to follow the teachings of a man who practiced gross immoralities himself. How many married men do you know think they will be married to other men's wives after they die? How many married men do you know married 15 women in 2018? JS did this in 1842. How many married men do you know have married eleven women who are already married to other men? How many men do you know think they will be king of the earth during the millennium? This isn't normal. I have higher morals than Joseph Smith. So do most atheists. Who is king over the earth? Jesus or Joseph? "On March 11, 1844, Joseph Smith established a secret organization called the Council of Fifty, in Nauvoo, Illinois, which was designed to carry out his plans for political empire. This theocratic-political kingdom or body of men met a number of times in Nauvoo before Smith's death on June 27, 1844.The goal of this theocracy was world government/ They further believed they would govern and rule the earth during the millennial reign of Christ. On April 11, 1844, the Council of Fifty installed Joseph Smith as king on earth, then two days later, “He [Smith] prophecied the entire overthrow of this nation in a few years.” (A false prophecy.) This theocratic-political body believed they were receiving God's “law” for the whole earth The LDS church is not based on the word of God, so it will eventually have to go along with whatever society deems is acceptable. They have changed their position on blacks in the priesthood, etc. because of changing cultural norms. The Book of Abraham was proven a fraud decades ago. I am sure there will be gay prophets and apostles in due time.
Yeah... making the distinction between being gay and acting on being is not much better. Sexual and romantic fulfillment is still something they are denied that straight people get to enjoy. And gay people who are forced not to act, or are shamed for acting on their homosexuality tend to experience lower quality of life, and a decline in mental and physical health. So it doesn't matter where being or acting gay becomes a "sin".... either way, its cruel and unhealthy.
I broke the rules and got depressed so you need to change your religion's beliefs so nobody feels bad. (I wonder how many other groups, organization and institutions he would make the same point to? And which ones he wouldn't dare to criticize.)
*polemeros says:* "I broke the rules and got depressed so you need to change your religion's beliefs so nobody feels bad. " *JediMormon responds:* Here's a novel thought for you: Maybe you shouldn't have broken the rules.
We all sin... Nobody is perfect. the shame we feel when we sin can make us mad, sad, or even blame others for the pain we feel BUT....... I believe God wants us to learn from our mistakes and temptations, He wants us to become humble, He wants us to see our weakness and if we do, we shall be made stronger. God gives his strongest children the toughest trials but nothing we can't handle if we always remember Jesus Christ our lord and savior and keep his commandments that he has given us. If we pick and choose what commandments to follow....What does that say about our Faith in God's plan? Its wrong to blame suicide on any 1 person or an entire religion in my opinion only Jesus Christ has that authority to judge.
It is deeply disturbing that Dan is a prophet to so many LDS youth. The Church does _not_ shame gays. _Church members could do much better at loving them,_ but it does not shame.
Wow, I didn't know Mormons were so strict. Kicked out of BYU for having sex, actually really being kicked out because he was honest in his cinfession, many probably lie. And the suicide rate makes me cringe, I always admired Mormon famies, they seemed so lovkng, caring, putting family first. Dan, I admire you for bringing this issue into the light. I believe God is love and knows what you are doing and approves.
Completely depends who your bishop is. I told my bishop I had sex and and nothing was done outside his office where other bishops (who are head of your ward or congregation) think it’s their duty to take it to the stake president (head of all the wards in the area) who then will take it to the head of BYU if you’re a student there. Most bishops know it’s a death sentence if it gets back to BYU and don’t want to see a kid kicked out of school. His Bishop must have been a total dick to take it that far.
I just watched the documentary, it's so well done in such an authentic way. I'm LDS and yep live in Utah and attitudes, hearts, beliefs need to change, not only here but everywhere. Dan and Tyler were right on the mark when they were singing Love One Another. Children all over this planet are born loving and are then taught to mistrust and hate. I sincerely hope people watching this take time to really find this part of their personal humanity
By THIS shall men know ye are my disciples IF YE HAVE LOVE ONE TO ANOTHER.
True disciples of christ have LOVE. That is what separates the wheat from the tares. (Just some food for thought) 🙂
Go Dan! Continue to follow your heart - with open eyes. Kudos to you, man.
I'm a fairly active Mormon that lives in Utah. I agree that people need to be more understanding and not to judge so much. I love everybody, and that 100% includes the LGBT+ community.
How can one love EVERYONE? Sounds like to live the whole world. They teach us to say that but in fact we have few people we really love
I STRONGLY SUPPORT ALL PEOPLE!!
I'm a active LDS member in Indiana and one of our biggest things is not to judge but I filled our church is one of the worst at doing such thing need to see everyone though gods eyes.
"After I was deemed worthy"
Says it all.
Watched doc "Believer", loved it.
im so proud of dan
DAN u Rock.. your energy - music - joint helped me out at one point so thank you
I'm so proud of dan and everything he stands up for. He's the best person I know. 💙💜💚💛❤️
Jordan Huguet Maybe that sounds silly, but what is a Mormon ?
I am humanist, no faith, love for all mankind.
Dan, my family and I have been Mormon converts for 30 years. I've never lived in Utah but I've heard the Mormons there are different than those in Texas. Over the past 30 years, to us the church has changed a lot. Its been a struggle for us but we are still in good standing with them. By comparison with the past, I would say the church isn't too stubborn to change from within. Please don't be ashamed for leaving BYU the way you did. You've done wonderful things with your life and you should feel good about yourself. By no means are we "perfect" and anyone who would judge us is "imperfect" themselves. They obviously need our help so let's pray for them.
Queenie Bee The thing is if you just pray for the "judgmental" nothing ever changes. Especially when it was the "prophets" who taught this as scripture and then tried to put it into law with prop 8 and sex shame (for all sex especially masturbation) pounded into one at home and in one-on-one closed door bishop's chastity interviews where they can ask any sexual question to children as young as 8 without any other adult present not even one's parents. I know this first hand. (Pioneer heritage with every 19th century ancestor and I was a mormon in and outside of Utah.)
I just wish Mormons realized how their religion started. All religions honestly, but we actually KNOW how Mormonism started.
I completely understand. I was born to a mother that is straight up, devout, follow without question Mormon. I was never comfortable in the church and as soon as I could I got out. I have some stories like this too. I made peace with soul and found my path and this dismayed my mother and the church who til this day try and save my soul. I am Wiccan among other beliefs and practices. I am at peace and happy, finally. Don't ever follow blindly, always ask questions and settle only for that which brings you inner peace and happiness, whatever that path may be. Namaste
+Vickie Cawley: Congrats Vickie! Living authentically is priceless. I'm so happy that you've found your way and have forged your path on your own terms.
Lunatic4Bizcas , thank you. It was not easy and was many years in the making but very much worth the struggle. Breaking away from the "fear" that is used to control you is the toughest.
@@ericcarr4evr sup! I'm also exmormon, now pagan. :) its a hard change to find ones own path but so worth it!
@@tiannabusby8382, so very true. Also, very happy for you too!!!! Namaste!
Imagine Dragons is an amazing band and I love their music but I believe Dan Reynolds maybe my favorite person in the world. Thank you for speaking up
Wow, I didn't know Mormons were so strict. Kicked out of BYU for having sex, actually really being kicked out because he was honest in his confession, many probably lie. And the suicide rate makes me cringe, I always admired Mormon famies, they seemed so loving, caring, putting family first. Dan, I admire you for bringing this issue into the light. I believe God is love and knows what you are doing and approves.
cindyasters You can’t blame the suicide rate on a religion. People commit suicide for many different reasons.
Jim Caponzi you have no clue what you’re talking about.
@Jim Caponzi hi there friend. For context, I have a really big issue with the church of Jesus christ of later-day saints (aka mormon church). I was raised in it and I think it is a fraud and an extremely unhealthy religion. But....
Your understanding of the religion is very obviously warped and misguided and I have an issue with ignorance even when it is used to attack something I also dont like.
Not all, but many mormon people are genuinely kind loving and wonderful people.
That being said, I am not a fan of the religion itself. (I was raised in it and believed for over 20 years. I'm glad to have left it)
There is also a major cultural issue where mormon people try to make themselves and their family appear perfect and happy. The pressure to be perfect fosters alot of shame and hidden depression which coupled with the church's teachings on homosexuality very likely correlates with high suicide rates.
The standards of the church are extremely strict and they especially take what they consider "sexual sin" extremely seriously. In fact it's often considered 2nd to murder for how sinful it is. Any sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage and any homosexual act is considered sexual sin.
Many do lie in confession and if you tell the truth and have committed a "serious" sin the repentance process is often very emotionally painful, long (several months or even years), and involves alot of self and social shaming techniques to make the sinner feel sufficiently remorseful before being granted access to the atonement of Jesus christ for forgiveness. In my opinion the process is highly emotionally abusive. I've been through it.
As for BYU. Yes. If you break any of the honor code rules you can get kicked out. The honor code is very similar to the church standards but surprisingly is even stricter than the church itself even if you go to BYU and are not a member of the mormon church, you still have to follow the mormon rules (which also means no coffee) . You even have to follow the rules while off campus and students are encouraged to tattle on each other. Plus I've taken BYU classes and the education is very biased to favor things that do not conflict with mormon theology and is subpar in quality. But many mormon people feel it is the college to go to because it is a mormon college.
Never mind the LGBT stuff, stop the presses! He's drinking coffee!!!
Joseph Sonners said no one, ever.
Wait..you’re telling me Joseph Smith invented Mormonism? No...no way. Mind=blown. Oh my heck...I thought it was revealed to him, but you’re telling me he made it up. Oh man, I’m straight up having an identity crisis.
This man is too pure for the world
So is he advocating for a complete change of fundamental Mormon church doctrine? Or a change in culture in regards to shaming?
Devin Fuller I really think it is more about culture, but it gets kinda mixed up.
I am glad they kicked him out . He turned out way better than he would have if he stayed. Now he is helping millions of us. I thought he was gay too. I didn't realize he wasn't and is married with 3 kids. He is amazing!
3:43, DAN PLAYS PUBG PC?
As an LGBTQ member/supporter, non-LDS (Mormon), resident of a small town in Utah I've personally witnessed devastating bullying from, not only LDS kids, but also their parents, towards the LGBTQ community. I've known far too many LGBTQ youth, both LDS and of other faiths, take their lives because of the negative stigma that permeates throughout Utah. While the bullying and shaming are coming predominantly from the LDS church it also rears its ugly head from other faiths. It's a sad epidemic that's growing exponentially here in Utah and I believe it's fueled by the LDS church's negative stance on, not only our LGBTQ community, but also other faiths and ideals that don't align with the Mormon agenda. That being said, I also know, and am close friends with many LDS members who don't agree with what they're being told to do and how to treat the LGBTQ community by their elders, their bishops, the quorum of 70, and their Church president. The world is rapidly changing and if we truly want to have better lives for our future generations we need to teach more tolerance, peace, acceptance and far less hate. We have to share this little blue marble called Earth. It's all we have and if we lose it, we lose each other. Be kind to one another!
Laure Lind idk I'm not Mormon but they helped me get clean of heroin so they have a special place in my heart still not Mormon but they spent thousands on my rehab and suboxon
Laure Lind I am so sorry that you have been bullied. That is NOT what we are taught to do in the LDS faith. I am active Mormon living in Utah and I am firm believer of the doctrines and teachings of the church. I would like to point out that the Prophet, Apostles and general authorities have NEVER taught nor have they ever condoned bullying of any kind. Regardless of ones sexual preference or faith. If you only knew the church’s generous donations to other religions you would be truly humbled by the good work that they do. They have even gone as far as helping pay for the building of Muslim mosque. We believe that Heavenly Father loves All of his children gay or straight. That being said we also believe in keeping all of his commandments. I hope that you can have better experiences with LDS people in the future.
i was sitting and WAITING for that scarlet letter reference 😂 i’m literature trash
I applaud YOU...having been raised LDS in late 60s..served Mission..married in Temple..Gathered 4 children..and Gay! Finally in 1991 came "out"..counseling..divorce..forgiveness and work through the guilt & shame..met & married my husband (28 yrs ago)...never looked back..Thank You for sharing your bravery and advocating for those LDS youth who struggle with a Church who casts them as less than
Dan's struggles made him who he is now. Go on with your bad self Dan. :) Amazing things happen when you move toward the truth, no matter the short term loss. All of us (institutions included) will rise or fall with our/their level of acceptance and humility when it comes to the truth. Learn from the struggle, seek the truth and move towards it and be thankful for your chance to do the next right thing.......
Lucifer was the good guy.
Jehovah's witnesses do the same. I left that cult after 11 years and feel very happy. Luckily I was an only witness in my family otherwise they would shun me. Feeling free from false doctrines and church leaders makes me satisfied. I continue reading the bible and the more I read the better I realize that LOVE is the only true religion nowadays
All you need is LOVE! ❤
The Church teaches against judgement of its members, do not for one second equate the behavior of members with church theology. Look it up. Yes the Church does not support gay marriage or sex before marriage, but we are to love and support those who struggle. Who doesn’t struggle? Christ is the only perfect person to live on this earth. I hope somehow you’re reading this, Dan. God loves you and never intended for you to feel miserable, that’s not what His church teaches.
That may not be how the church teaches but that’s how MANY of its members respond to someone else in the Mormon faith doing something different. It’s hypocrisy in its truest form.
Gay marriage or being gay is not a “struggle”. Being gay doesn’t make someone imperfect. I truly understand and believe that you have every good intention; however, this line of thinking is what causes the problem in the first place.
Really? You all have a funny way of expressing it.
atrain84 I completely agree with you that it is hypocrisy, and it absolutely needs to stop. And btw anyone who is gay (AKA ME 😁) knows that it really is a struggle under any circumstances.
specialkaye87 I know, members are idiots sometimes. But that doesn’t mean that the Church isn’t true! The theology and authority are from Christ, and God calls imperfect people to accomplish his work.
Jim Caponzi your intolerance and hatred towards others is adorable and completely unbecoming of a disciple of Jesus Christ, who taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves. You clearly have not been converted unto Christ. I invite you to read the Bible and to follow Christ’s teachings.
Shame is the emotional impact one may feel when one comes to an assessment that one has broken a public rule. Guilt is the emotional impact one may feel when one comes to an assessment that one has broken a personal, internal to that person, rule. very different Guilt and Shame. And it's just an assessment. Guilt or Shames impact is making yourself wrong for breaking the internal or community rule, respectively. It takes self forgiveness to end the self wrong making. God has already forgiven you, as he knows your heart better than anyone. Your actions that resulted in an assessment that leads to guilt or shame, God gets you are human.....and its no big deal to him/her/it. Others may also judge you, and that is their folly to deal with.
what kind of bishop rats on a confession?
Answer: every single bishop that is following the rules.
BYU has what's called the honor code and in order to gain admittance to the school a religious leader is supposed to make sure you are following the honor code. If you break the honor code you get kicked out. And if anyone (including bishops in confession) finds out that you broke the honor code they are supposed to tattle on you to the school and then you get kicked out.
So if you dont want to get kicked out of the school, either you follow the rules or you lie really really well.
No man can serve two masters. Every individual's journey with God is unique and personal. He reveals to us through the scriptures, his servants and through revelation that his will for us is to save sexual intimacy for marriage. If we don't, we are sinning and we become subject to the heavenly laws we have promised to be obedient to through baptism. This is why we have the atonement and the repentance process, which is set up and lead by Him. Requiring repentance is not 'shaming' and it's not religion that 'shames', though I strongly feel your repentance experience depends on 1) what you truly want your life to be and 2) if you're Bishop truly helps you feel the love of the Lord and not the effects of his personal judgment as a man. That being said, feeling ashamed is a consequence of sin. The Lord wants to protect us from feeling that way, that is why he wants us to follow him. Let's be honest...we put ourselves in this situation, the need to repent. It doesn't mean that we are doomed. But we simply must take responsibility for our own choices. We do not strive to be obedient to church officials. We are obedient to God. His full gospel is only found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints...and that DOES NOT mean we think we're better than everyone else. No one is perfect. We are all sinners. People are human. We have incredible challenges, some more than others. People have a God given right to be Christians and also not to be. But there is no strength or salvation in fence-sitting.
Mizzle Diz Excelent!!!! 👏🏻💕
So if the shame is brought on by sinning then shouldn’t EVERYONE walk around in shame and hating life? I mean honestly, if the understanding is that everyone sins why do some get treated differently? The shame didn’t materialize out of nowhere. If your religion tells you that you should be ashamed of who you are then your religion is completely responsible.
In Catholicism, I've been taught that confession should be something freeing and that brings you closer to God. Judgment belongs the one and only God.
Mormon confession is supposedly meant to bring you closer to God but mormons also believe that bishops are "judges of Israel" and can judge when a person has sufficiently repented in order to be forgiven by Jesus.
In order to "sufficiently" repent (according to mormon theology) the sinner has to feel bad for what they did, confess, make amends, and never commit the sin again before they believe God will forgive. This process can take months or years if the sin is considered "serious" and several tactics are used to make the sinner humble and feel bad enough for their sin.
They often have to read books and scriptures that talk about how horrible they are for sinning, they aren't allowed to participate in certain practices including the taking of the sacrament (mormon equivalent of the catholic eucharist), and they cant go to the temple which is really important to mormons as they believe that the ceremonies they do in the temple are necessary for salvation.
Mormons also only go to confession for things that are considered serious. Smaller sins are believed to be repentable with out a bishops help.
So even though there are similarities, catholic confession from what I understand is very different than mormon confession.
(Oh and by the way I was raised mormon and lived it for over 20 years, but am no longer mormon)
Blah Blah Blah....seriously you were at a religious college what did you expect.
❤🌈🏳️🌈⬆️🙏✝️
It’s not the fact that certain people are gay or lesbian that the Church of Jesus Christ deems sinful, it’s the physical act that is sinful.
Was it sinful for Joseph Smith to marry 40 women?
Not that I know of but what has that got to do with anything?
@@GrandmasFolly You have an excellent point. Same sex attraction is not sinful. It is the physical act that sinful.
We are all broken and struggle with sin everyday.
The problem is that the LDS church thinks it is alright to follow the teachings of a man who practiced gross immoralities himself.
How many married men do you know think they will be married to other men's wives after they die?
How many married men do you know married 15 women in 2018? JS did this in 1842.
How many married men do you know have married eleven women who are already married to other men?
How many men do you know think they will be king of the earth during the millennium?
This isn't normal.
I have higher morals than Joseph Smith.
So do most atheists.
Who is king over the earth? Jesus or Joseph?
"On March 11, 1844, Joseph Smith established a secret organization called the Council of Fifty, in Nauvoo, Illinois, which was designed to carry out his plans for political empire. This theocratic-political kingdom or body of men met a number of times in Nauvoo before Smith's death on June 27, 1844.The goal of this theocracy was world government/ They further believed they would govern and rule the earth during the millennial reign of Christ.
On April 11, 1844, the Council of Fifty installed Joseph Smith as king on earth, then two days later, “He [Smith] prophecied the entire overthrow of this nation in a few years.” (A false prophecy.) This theocratic-political body believed they were receiving God's “law” for the whole earth
The LDS church is not based on the word of God, so it will eventually have to go along with whatever society deems is acceptable. They have changed their position on blacks in the priesthood, etc. because of changing cultural norms. The Book of Abraham was proven a fraud decades ago. I am sure there will be gay prophets and apostles in due time.
Yeah... making the distinction between being gay and acting on being is not much better. Sexual and romantic fulfillment is still something they are denied that straight people get to enjoy. And gay people who are forced not to act, or are shamed for acting on their homosexuality tend to experience lower quality of life, and a decline in mental and physical health.
So it doesn't matter where being or acting gay becomes a "sin".... either way, its cruel and unhealthy.
I broke the rules and got depressed so you need to change your religion's beliefs so nobody feels bad. (I wonder how many other groups, organization and institutions he would make the same point to? And which ones he wouldn't dare to criticize.)
polemeros, Mormons gonna morm.
Cesletter.com
@Helaman Aguilar Google ''Answering the CES Letter You Tube'' Those videos expose the anti-Mormon author of the CES Letter Jeremy Runnels.
*polemeros says:* "I broke the rules and got depressed so you need to change your religion's beliefs so nobody feels bad. "
*JediMormon responds:* Here's a novel thought for you: Maybe you shouldn't have broken the rules.
The author does not change facts. Sorry about that.
We all sin... Nobody is perfect. the shame we feel when we sin can make us mad, sad, or even blame others for the pain we feel BUT....... I believe God wants us to learn from our mistakes and temptations, He wants us to become humble, He wants us to see our weakness and if we do, we shall be made stronger. God gives his strongest children the toughest trials but nothing we can't handle if we always remember Jesus Christ our lord and savior and keep his commandments that he has given us.
If we pick and choose what commandments to follow....What does that say about our Faith in God's plan? Its wrong to blame suicide on any 1 person or an entire religion in my opinion only Jesus Christ has that authority to judge.
Now take the next step & leave Mormonism for Jesus alone.
It is deeply disturbing that Dan is a prophet to so many LDS youth. The Church does _not_ shame gays. _Church members could do much better at loving them,_ but it does not shame.
It sucks that people don't convert themselves. Learn the doctrine. Dont put your faith in people. Put it in God and the Savior.
Wow, I didn't know Mormons were so strict. Kicked out of BYU for having sex, actually really being kicked out because he was honest in his cinfession, many probably lie. And the suicide rate makes me cringe, I always admired Mormon famies, they seemed so lovkng, caring, putting family first. Dan, I admire you for bringing this issue into the light. I believe God is love and knows what you are doing and approves.
Completely depends who your bishop is. I told my bishop I had sex and and nothing was done outside his office where other bishops (who are head of your ward or congregation) think it’s their duty to take it to the stake president (head of all the wards in the area) who then will take it to the head of BYU if you’re a student there. Most bishops know it’s a death sentence if it gets back to BYU and don’t want to see a kid kicked out of school. His Bishop must have been a total dick to take it that far.