I am loading the Hornady 200gr FTX bullet used in the Smith 460. Won’t give data but I am in the range of 2600FPS. I have always thought the 250gr was heavy for deer, I always had pass through. Now using the 200gr I have recovered 2 out of three bullets used in deer kills. Great expansion and bullets recovered on the off side. I hunted with the Smith 460 for several years using the 200gr FTX. Never had to track a hit deer with that bullet. That is why I went with it in the 450 Bushy in the AR platform. I am in my late 70’s and hunt on a creek that winds through farm country. I could not track a deer through there if I wanted to. The three deer shot with the 200gr, two went right down on the other went about 50 feet. FANTASTIC BULLET FOR THE 450 BUSHY.
Very good video John. My very first cartridge I loaded for was 458 Socom. I'm a huge big bore addict with the AR-15 platform. Can't wait to see some more load development with this cartridge. Echo
So glad I stumbled on your videos...did so looking for the reduced load for 395 gr subx which I have now ordered. In any event, I found my best load for me with my 450 bolt Ruger as being with Imr 4227, and I can attest it takes down deer well. My longest shot thus far for deer has been approximately 110 yards. They knock a hog down without problem also. My Ruger measured OAL with Hornady OAL gauge at 2.440 to the lands with 250 FTX so anyone who reads my data should measure their own and work accordingly...do not duplicate anything... you must check your own as seldom are two guns the same. I work up my loads with a comparator measuring from the ogive and then measure from the tip so I have two measurements to check against. Saying that, my best OAL was between 2.300 and 2.360 and I settled on 2.300 which is 1.782 by the hornady comparator from the ogive. I worked up the load for 4227 and settled with 38 gr. I used CCI 400 small rifle primers and Starline brass (all I could find, but it seems like good brass) I used Lee dies and I had not measured the Crimp, but I knew it was light...did not think bolt gun needed much, but I just checked my loads and it measured .477 consistent which is only .003 less than the specs shown in Lyman 50 manual at .480. Whether that works for anyone else is to be determined....I know AR platforms are supposed to be more crimped, but I do not have that. I tried H110 powder and went by the Hodgdon web data up to a max load of 41 gr...yep, I see the hornady data is less at 39.2. I had played with OAL out to 2.360 for it, and at that max load it strung a little horizontal, but was spot on. I think the H110 is ok, but it seemed much harsher to shoot for my 69 year old shoulder...I would not shoot that max load again. Loads a grain or so less gave decent accuracy, but I settled with the 4227. I would post a photo of the range results for my comments above, but I am not tech savy enough.
Wow, you have a lot of data there. Looks like you have some good loads and good hunting success. Your crimp at .477 sounds about what I use. The drawing in the Lyman book is for the case, but I don't think it includes the crimp. I measured some Hornady factory ammo and it was about .475-.477. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
John, everyone should know this. Hornady wrote me back, after the fact of course. Thank you for contacting us. The decision was made to change the Hornady cases for the 450 Bushmaster from a small primer pocket to a large primer pocket. Cases produced from that point forward (in ammunition and as a component) will have the large pocket. This was done after extensive testing to confirm performance would not be compromised and was implemented in an effort to meet increasing demand for the cartridge. If you will be reloading with these cases, it will be necessary to keep the cases separated by pocket size, but load development will follow the same charge weights.
I have two 450 BMs: a Ruger American like yours, and a Ruger Number One (Single Shot) in stainless. The best powders for me so far are H-110 and IMR - 4227. Good performance from bullets from Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler - and cast bullets from Cast Performance and one I cast myself - Lyman 335 FNGC (linotype). So far no hunting experience with the gun - but hopefully some feral hogs ASAP! Nice video. sir.
Thanks! Lil'Gun has been best for me for bullets 250Gr and lighter. For 300gr and heavier, 300-MP gives me a bit higher velocities. I made up some subsonic loads with the Hornady 395 sub-x bullet using IMR4198 that worked out pretty good. Appreciate you watching.
I found a crimp of .474 too much. If you measure factory its a .478 spec. I use .477 for best results. Dont want to distort the bullet. H110\296 is very accurate but you have to load it to capacity. Depending on seating depth but you want 100 percent fill to 102 percent for best results. 240gr to 300 H110/296, 240 and under use Lil Gun. I use 42gr H110 TTSX Barnes 2300 fps (16") sub 1" at 100 and 2" and under at 200 yards seated at 2.345". You can get same with 38gr H110 but need to seat it at 2.25" and I found seating further out with that bullet more accurate from 2 guns I tried, better than Hornady Black. Moral of story if you use H110/296 fill to bottom of the bullet no air space. You might run hotter than spec though but if you use a bolt gun it will be fine. 40.6gr h110 + FTX 250 is around factory 2200 fps.
Thanks for your info! Must be a difference in each of our calipers, I measured factory crimp at .474-.475. Agree that H-110/W296 needs to be loaded at near or max capacity. I think the 240XTP Mag load issue is that I taper crimped at the cannular. Even though it was out of the Hornady manual, seating shorter or longer would not have the crimp there. My Ruger American is a bit finicky on feeding from the magazine, so I have to keep COL to spec, but loading long does improve performance. Glad you are having good experience and results with your 450 Bushmasters! Thanks again for your info and watching!
I actually did use REM 7 1/2 primers. I think the problem for the 240 XTP Mag was the crimp. I used a taper crimp, which is what one needs, but it was at the cannular, and was not firm enough. I will try that load again in the future. Hey, thanks for the info and watching!
Looked at Ruger RAR two offerings from Savage and the CVA Cascade made by Bergara All four were close enough in price the differences were irrelevant When it came time to spend my money the CVA Cascade was IMO head and shoulders above the others in fit funish over all quality and much better ergonomics and IMO absolute best value for my $$$ Cascades trigger is excellent as well. Its DBM also works great. Topped both with Crimson Trace Brushline Pro scopes 2-10×40mm Tried only real powder I knew of Hodgdon Lil' Gun .451" 245grn H/Inloks CCI SM/RFL/MAG priners new Starline brass Hornady Custom Grade FL die, bullet seater and Lee Factory crip die 5 loads between 37.5 grains and 39.5 grains best loading gave five 5 shot 100 yard groups all under 1" and average was right at 5/8" MV five shot average was 2440fps I can not be happier with the rifle and loading Actually went out and bought the same rifle for my son. Unfortunately CVA doesn't make a left handed version or Id own three as my youngest is a southpaw I can not possibly recommend anyone looking for the best value in a rifle in 450BM give the CVA Cascade a long hard look
Lyman manual indicates case mouth OD should be .480". I don't why you state .474" - .475". Seems like a big difference to me. My handloads mic .478", and function fine.
That measurement does not include the taper crimp needed on a 450 Bushmaster. I measured several different boxes of Hornady factory ammo, they were .474-.475". Thanks for the question and watching!
I checked my log book, my group size reduced by about 25% after I removed the muzzle brake. I actually removed it because I did not like the muzzle blast and would rather have the extra recoil. The improved accuracy was a bonus. Hey, thanks for the question and watching!
Extend the hornady bullet out so your not crimping into that groove... Doing that , is a no no...and is dangerous .... Extending the bullet out will also help your pattern
Yes, I will have to either extend or seat deeper so the case mouth is not at the cannular to get a firmer crimp on the 240 XTP MAG bullet. As I said in the video, use a taper crimp and measure so it is about .475" at the mouth. I did not roll crimp at the cannular, which is dangerous. Hey, thanks for watching!
Since I have never done this, working with my son to make sure I have the correct equipment and setup. This is a live video chat? Anything special I need?
I am loading the Hornady 200gr FTX bullet used in the Smith 460. Won’t give data but I am in the range of 2600FPS. I have always thought the 250gr was heavy for deer, I always had pass through. Now using the 200gr I have recovered 2 out of three bullets used in deer kills. Great expansion and bullets recovered on the off side. I hunted with the Smith 460 for several years using the 200gr FTX. Never had to track a hit deer with that bullet. That is why I went with it in the 450 Bushy in the AR platform. I am in my late 70’s and hunt on a creek that winds through farm country. I could not track a deer through there if I wanted to. The three deer shot with the 200gr, two went right down on the other went about 50 feet. FANTASTIC BULLET FOR THE 450 BUSHY.
Thanks for the info, I have a video on reloading with the 200gr FTX that I did a few months ago. Thanks for watching!
450 looks like a fun cartridge. Congrats on 400 subs! Thanks for sharing 👊🇺🇸👍
Yeah, it's like the big brother to the 350 legend. Thanks on the subs, I'm getting there!
Good info on the powders used. Thanks John, Mike.
Glad you found it useful! Thanks, John
Very good video John. My very first cartridge I loaded for was 458 Socom. I'm a huge big bore addict with the AR-15 platform. Can't wait to see some more load development with this cartridge. Echo
Thanks! In a bolt gun, the Bushmaster is a fun round. I might get a 458 SOCOM in an AR. Thanks again!
So glad I stumbled on your videos...did so looking for the reduced load for 395 gr subx which I have now ordered. In any event, I found my best load for me with my 450 bolt Ruger as being with Imr 4227, and I can attest it takes down deer well. My longest shot thus far for deer has been approximately 110 yards. They knock a hog down without problem also. My Ruger measured OAL with Hornady OAL gauge at 2.440 to the lands with 250 FTX so anyone who reads my data should measure their own and work accordingly...do not duplicate anything... you must check your own as seldom are two guns the same. I work up my loads with a comparator measuring from the ogive and then measure from the tip so I have two measurements to check against. Saying that, my best OAL was between 2.300 and 2.360 and I settled on 2.300 which is 1.782 by the hornady comparator from the ogive. I worked up the load for 4227 and settled with 38 gr. I used CCI 400 small rifle primers and Starline brass (all I could find, but it seems like good brass) I used Lee dies and I had not measured the Crimp, but I knew it was light...did not think bolt gun needed much, but I just checked my loads and it measured .477 consistent which is only .003 less than the specs shown in Lyman 50 manual at .480. Whether that works for anyone else is to be determined....I know AR platforms are supposed to be more crimped, but I do not have that.
I tried H110 powder and went by the Hodgdon web data up to a max load of 41 gr...yep, I see the hornady data is less at 39.2. I had played with OAL out to 2.360 for it, and at that max load it strung a little horizontal, but was spot on. I think the H110 is ok, but it seemed much harsher to shoot for my 69 year old shoulder...I would not shoot that max load again. Loads a grain or so less gave decent accuracy, but I settled with the 4227. I would post a photo of the range results for my comments above, but I am not tech savy enough.
Wow, you have a lot of data there. Looks like you have some good loads and good hunting success. Your crimp at .477 sounds about what I use. The drawing in the Lyman book is for the case, but I don't think it includes the crimp. I measured some Hornady factory ammo and it was about .475-.477. Thanks for watching and Happy New Year!
John, everyone should know this. Hornady wrote me back, after the fact of course. Thank you for contacting us. The decision was made to change the Hornady cases for the 450 Bushmaster from a small primer pocket to a large primer pocket. Cases produced from that point forward (in ammunition and as a component) will have the large pocket. This was done after extensive testing to confirm performance would not be compromised and was implemented in an effort to meet increasing demand for the cartridge. If you will be reloading with these cases, it will be necessary to keep the cases separated by pocket size, but load development will follow the same charge weights.
Yeah, have to know that there are 2 primer sizes and keep the cases sorted. Thanks for watching!
I have two 450 BMs: a Ruger American like yours, and a Ruger Number One (Single Shot) in stainless. The best powders for me so far are H-110 and IMR - 4227. Good performance from bullets from Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler - and cast bullets from Cast Performance and one I cast myself - Lyman 335 FNGC (linotype). So far no hunting experience with the gun - but hopefully some feral hogs ASAP! Nice video. sir.
Thanks! Lil'Gun has been best for me for bullets 250Gr and lighter. For 300gr and heavier, 300-MP gives me a bit higher velocities. I made up some subsonic loads with the Hornady 395 sub-x bullet using IMR4198 that worked out pretty good. Appreciate you watching.
The break off my ruger is in a parts box also !👍
Yeah, too loud! Thanks for watching!
I found a crimp of .474 too much. If you measure factory its a .478 spec. I use .477 for best results. Dont want to distort the bullet.
H110\296 is very accurate but you have to load it to capacity. Depending on seating depth but you want 100 percent fill to 102 percent for best results. 240gr to 300 H110/296, 240 and under use Lil Gun.
I use 42gr H110 TTSX Barnes 2300 fps (16") sub 1" at 100 and 2" and under at 200 yards seated at 2.345". You can get same with 38gr H110 but need to seat it at 2.25" and I found seating further out with that bullet more accurate from 2 guns I tried, better than Hornady Black.
Moral of story if you use H110/296 fill to bottom of the bullet no air space. You might run hotter than spec though but if you use a bolt gun it will be fine. 40.6gr h110 + FTX 250 is around factory 2200 fps.
Thanks for your info! Must be a difference in each of our calipers, I measured factory crimp at .474-.475. Agree that H-110/W296 needs to be loaded at near or max capacity. I think the 240XTP Mag load issue is that I taper crimped at the cannular. Even though it was out of the Hornady manual, seating shorter or longer would not have the crimp there. My Ruger American is a bit finicky on feeding from the magazine, so I have to keep COL to spec, but loading long does improve performance. Glad you are having good experience and results with your 450 Bushmasters! Thanks again for your info and watching!
make sure you use hot primers, rem 7.5 or cci41.and a nice crimp. iv had issues with not getting full ignition .
I actually did use REM 7 1/2 primers. I think the problem for the 240 XTP Mag was the crimp. I used a taper crimp, which is what one needs, but it was at the cannular, and was not firm enough. I will try that load again in the future. Hey, thanks for the info and watching!
Looked at Ruger RAR two offerings from Savage and the CVA Cascade made by Bergara
All four were close enough in price the differences were irrelevant
When it came time to spend my money the CVA Cascade was IMO head and shoulders above the others in fit funish over all quality and much better ergonomics and IMO absolute best value for my $$$ Cascades trigger is excellent as well. Its DBM also works great.
Topped both with Crimson Trace Brushline Pro scopes 2-10×40mm
Tried only real powder I knew of Hodgdon Lil' Gun .451" 245grn H/Inloks CCI SM/RFL/MAG priners new Starline brass
Hornady Custom Grade FL die, bullet seater and Lee Factory crip die
5 loads between 37.5 grains and 39.5 grains best loading gave five 5 shot 100 yard groups all under 1" and average was right at 5/8"
MV five shot average was 2440fps
I can not be happier with the rifle and loading
Actually went out and bought the same rifle for my son. Unfortunately CVA doesn't make a left handed version or Id own three as my youngest is a southpaw
I can not possibly recommend anyone looking for the best value in a rifle in 450BM give the CVA Cascade a long hard look
Thanks for watching!
4227 is satisfactory in my AR platform for 300 and 340gr
I actually have never used IMR 4227, not sure why, might have to in the near future. Thanks for watching!
Lyman manual indicates case mouth OD should be .480". I don't why you state .474" - .475". Seems like a big difference to me. My handloads mic .478", and function fine.
That measurement does not include the taper crimp needed on a 450 Bushmaster. I measured several different boxes of Hornady factory ammo, they were .474-.475". Thanks for the question and watching!
Nice
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
My LGS told me if you remove the recoil supressor you lose accuracy. Can you try it on
I checked my log book, my group size reduced by about 25% after I removed the muzzle brake. I actually removed it because I did not like the muzzle blast and would rather have the extra recoil. The improved accuracy was a bonus. Hey, thanks for the question and watching!
Thanks for the video. Where are you planning on hunting deer with this gun? Hope you are successful.
Frank, This year I am probably take an AR in 300BO. You getting ready for hunting? Thanks,
John
Hey saw you on the live tonight.
Yeah, first time I ever did a live show like that! Was fun! Thanks!
Extend the hornady bullet out so your not crimping into that groove...
Doing that , is a no no...and is dangerous ....
Extending the bullet out will also help your pattern
Yes, I will have to either extend or seat deeper so the case mouth is not at the cannular to get a firmer crimp on the 240 XTP MAG bullet.
As I said in the video, use a taper crimp and measure so it is about .475" at the mouth. I did not roll crimp at the cannular, which is dangerous.
Hey, thanks for watching!
John I am going to need your e-mail address so that I can send you a link for the chat tonight 8 p.m. thank you, Echo.
No problem, gaydosak@gci.net Thanks, John
Since I have never done this, working with my son to make sure I have the correct equipment and setup. This is a live video chat? Anything special I need?