How Does Copper Get Inside of a VIA Hole in Your PCB - Do you know this? (with Kailey Shara)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2021
- Do you know why PCB Manufacturer may use tin to protect tracks and VIAs when your PCB is manufactured? Do you know how exactly PCB VIA plating is done? Thank you Kailey Shara for explanation
Links:
- Kailey Shara: www.kaileyshara.com/
- Kailey Shara LinkedIn: / kaileyshara
- Advanced Circuits PDF: www.4pcb.com/media/presentati...
- Eurocircuits - how to make a 4-layer PCB (full version): • Eurocircuits - how to ...
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It is much appreciated. Thank you,
- Robert
An excellent video. Kailey's words were so precise and scientific. Very detailed too. The explanations created cool images in my mind. Great work.
She really knows her thing!
Till now i couldn't find any video on pcb via better than this. It's really very informative. Thank you for sharing.
Very interesting video and very relevant topic for me. This answers some questions I had since a long time like e.g. "how do they put the cap on a filled via?".
Great!! These 1h20 were worth watching.
Hope you show more videos with experts on your side. You are an expert, too, but you can not be expert in every topic. Thank you, Robert!!!
That person who sharing information transparently helping me do buisness in Kazakhstan!
In the 1980's and 90's I had to make my own PCB's for freelance client projects. During that time, a commercial PCB cost thousands of dollars to buy which, in virtually all cases was more than the value of the niche projects I was doing. So the answer was to learn how to make PCB's myself when no Internet was available. Through lots of research I ended up screen printing the resist pattern on bare copper with a special heat-cured epoxy ink resist that was stripped off with a simple lye bath after etching with ferric chloride. I then screen printed a solder mask with another heat-cured epoxy followed by a screen print of the silkscreen markings using white enamel ink. Then I drilled all the holes. This worked very well for double-sided boards but was a LOT of work so I can appreciate the amount of work in today's multilayer PCB's. Would not even want to try. ;-) Incidentally, the screen printing resources were also handy in printing markings on the PCB enclosure -- a bonus, if you like.
These interviews are really adding lots of dynamics to your videos. Great job!
Thank you very much Lubos
Thankyou for the in depth instruction in PCb manuafcturing.
Thank you, Robert, your videos are exactly what I and many others need to learn, fantastic as always👍❤️
Thank you very much Soheil
Thanks, Robert for this Video, a lot of good information. Electroplating and Electroless plating techniques were both very well explained by Kailey.
This was awesome. Another great video.
thanks Kailey & Robert for very insightful video.
Thank you so much for sharing your deep expertize! You helped me to figure out why my circuits for my PhD are not working and to understand what the manufacturer did wrong with my microvias.
Robert Just a big thank you for another informative video. Your style is brilliant. I really enjoy the speakers you get to work with you. Their passion and knowledge blow you away. Kailey is another exciting example of this. It be a shame if you tried squash these interviews into 10 minute sound bites Like many viewers the chemistry got away from me but I would not wish any changes to the video. I been a hardware designer for 3 decades and still learning And Robert your suite of videos and speakers helps me learn something every week. I encourage my junior design engineers to take time to check your catalogue of videos. Ill be adding this one to the list Thanks again
Thank you Robert for interviewing Kailey on this very interesting topic 👍
Thank you Kailey for sharing this quality information 👍👍👍 Now I understand much better why some things cost more and why some things are said to be less reliable (types of vias). Thank you!
Keep those up! Lot of knowledge.
Thanks man!
Thank you very much
This video is fantastic. Her background of BA in chemistry and PhD in EE made the connection that wouldn't have been known to average designers like me. One thing that wasn't very clear to me was why epoxy-resin filling of thru-hole in-pad vias is required. I imagine if the other side is vented (not tented by solder mask), the air would just escape during reflow. Also, it wasn't clear about the interaction between copper and silver / copper for the electroless copper deposition process. For example, what is in the copper bath and the redox potential between copper and silver and how this makes the copper deposit onto the silver.
i like how you speak soft and slow . it's very good for google translate.
Absolutely great and unique source of knowledge! My favourite channel...
Really appreciate the effort you put in creating these exciting videos :)
Excellent video full of precise information!!!!
truly amazing video. thank you very much for this amazing video.
Great video Robert!
Thank you!
Thank you very much giannis asp
Thank you for the video
Excellent video sir
Kailey is fantastic. She is making you look bad! ;-)
One correction: Palladium was cheap many years ago, but now it is about 25% more expensive than gold!
Yes, she is fantastic
Actually I think Kailey makes Robert look brilliant for his going to the effort to make videos like this, find experts on various subject, talk them into a lengthy interview, and asking them intelligent questions.
hard to unerstand for me however great knowledge!!!
Every thing you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask.
Excellent video !!!
Thank you TEBBO
Hi sir.its really very useful information
So excellent
Cool video :)
Fascinating, I am curious if QC at this stage is all optical or is there electrical testing to test the platings somehow.
Hi Robert, Excellent video, really enjoyed it, even though a lot of the chemistry was way above my pay grade! I am still curious about applying the cathode voltage during electroplating. For the plating of the holes, I think I get it; since no etching has been done, all copper on that layer is electrically connected, so you just apply the cathode voltage to the single copper plane. However, it seems like when she was describing electroplating of edge connectors and castellation edges, the imaging was already complete. Do you need to get all those points that need plating electrically connected together so you can apply the cathode voltage? Is that what you were trying to find an illustration of? Does it work the same way with the castellated holes or do you have to somehow supply the anode voltage to each contact?
Palladium solution and electro plating.
Very interesting. I didn't know plating was done selectively with the regular subtractive PCB process. If that's the case, is the only difference between the subtractive and the (modified) semi additve process the thickness of the initial copper layer? Maybe you could do an in depth video like this on the semi additive process? I find it an interesting process and I hope it will become a bit more mainstream in the coming years.
Great video! I would be interested in finding out Kailey's thoughts on ultrasonic cleaning after soldering on the components, i.e. how much damage this might cause to the PCB. We get the SMD components PNPed by the board manufacturer, but we add the large through hole components in house and then clean the boards. I ask this because this step frequently takes the markings off of some of the components (especially the electrolytic capacitors).
Thank you ats89117
HI Robert, when will you update advance layout course according to the latest altium. Thank you
On the contrary, gold is cheaper than palladium nowadays.
Apart from that, it was a brilliant experiment.
Very nice video. Great presenter and host.
I was wondering if there is a way to reduce waste by somehow combining etching of one batch of PCBs with copper plating of another batch, migrating copper from where we want it removed to where we want it deposited?
Or, if we could skip etching altogether and do just deposition at exposed surfaces of bare epoxy?
Thank you salec PS: I had the same question and I cut out that from our call as it was already a long video, we discussed that. But basically, yes, there are some processes which could make it possible to get some copper back, but it doesn't mean PCB manufacturing companies do it.
I was also interested in your suggestion to leave the tin in place instead of removing it. She described this approach as "barebones PCB", is that a company or a process? I was wondering why they remove it at all. What are the disadvantages of just leaving it there, even when there is a solder mask? I think I have heard that you don't want tin under the solder mask because it will melt in the reflow oven. Is that why you need to remove it?
@robert...can you please explain how to via current without using tool?
God damn I wish I understood chemistry and electro-chemistry to a degree where I could understand this intuitively. One day I will.
Good video, always wondered this. Now in order to electroplate all the copper areas every trace needs to be electrified, how do you make contact with every trace to electroplate?
The electroplating is done before the etching. So the entire top and bottom surface of the pcb is still continuous copper. You then layer on your resist and then etch.
At 21:30 I was expecting some step to remove the extra copper because everything is shorted now. Does anyone know?
Great information!
Do you know if there's any difference in technology or any restrictions when you need PCB to be used in zero-gravity and high vacuum condicions?
Thank you Ignasi. PS: Talking to someone designing for space is on my todo list :) If anyone knows someone, please let me know.
@@RobertFeranec Great Robert. Thanks
❤
please help me Altium Designer spacebar doesn't rotate components pcb 90 degrees dialog box rotate
Thank you, it's possible to activate a French traduction?
Another excellent video :) Thanks :)
For 1:03:11: www.mclpcb.com/guide-pcb-gold-fingers/
I think the first image has the pins connected.
Thank you Punit. PS: Only what I found was not very well visible connection in the eurocircuit video: th-cam.com/video/sIV0icM_Ujo/w-d-xo.html
at 1:09 i heard "what shitted" :D
Robert, your videos are great, but I always end-up playing them 1,25 or 1,50 speed :)
Thank you Marek. PS: I play them at 2x speed :)
When electroplating, whole PCB copper area become single connected body for deposition. But in Gerber, these copper areas are different nets. How do they connect them all to a single net?
The PCB has not been etched yet (only drilled and electroless plated), so, there is copper everywhere (there are not "tracks" yet) .... just some of the copper is masked so we do not electroplate in the areas which are going to be etched.
@@RobertFeranec thank you, yes, only inner layers itched first
My age is 30 and was working as service engineer now I had chance to work as pcb design engineer but as pcb design engineer I am fresher also very low salary but I have very interested in pcb design engineering job only shall I switch to pcb design engineer from service engineer please suggest me.
Speed 2x is obligatory in this video.
Hi sir . I am now freshly start as PCB design engineer I am already age 30 now .will it help to me grow as PCB design engineer career... after long struggle now only I get job in this domain ..but previously I was working as service engineer please suggest me sir....I am waiting for your reply
ISR()
Gold coating on pcb suffers from 3 issues: 1) gold-copper inter-migration and subsequent oxidation 2) gold embrittlement 3) high cost.
The drill can go through at 200000 rotation per minute. Actually years ago we were working on a 500000 rpm motor for pcb drilling. Just some useless info 🙂
I worked in a PCB manufacturing company. DEFECTS DO HAPPEN. I have seen countless examples of drill debris or an air bubble or FOD inside a via completely prevent continuity thru the via, voids in copper surface (both internal and external layers), soldermask misaligned and getting onto the pads, copper shorts between traces, and a thousand of other things, as I was both testing these boards, and repairing anything that could be repaired... None of this stuff is as clean and zero-issue as you imagine. Do you want to find an issue AFTER a lot of expensive components have been soldered onto PCB or BEFORE??? THERE ARE ONLY TWO WAYS TO ENSURE A FUNCTIONAL BOARD FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN A PROTOTYPE: 1) 100% Electrical Test (quick bed-of-nails that requires a custom test fixture or flying probe which is MUCH slower but can work on nearly any board, even with components on) 2) Visual inspection with real humans (I never believed in machine vision, usually we spent more time tuning and programming a machine vision machine than running it)
Sigh... I don't trust myself around chemicals.
I use AllPCB myself. I tried RadioShack plating of homebrew PCBs when I was a teen. I would NEVER recommend anyone even attempt any PCBs outside of a factory, even with one of those PCB millers, home etching, etc. Here is the quickest example that would explain to you perfectly why: so instead of asking me why you don't want to do a 100-step process at home, why can't you even do a decent solder reflow at home, with crappy reflow ovens from China? That's only a two-three-step process, and the difference in quality between an "oven" type setup to a conveyor-fed, multi-zone reflow system is hell and heaven. Thus, never attempt anything more complicated than a two-step process, if AllPCB will have a PCB on your desk in one week, for extremely low prices!
Don't use HASL for critical applications like FN and BGA packages. The resulting surface is too uneven for advanced modern packages...
Gold embrittelemnt, RoHS lead-free solders issues, solder tin whiskers: if you don’t know this, don’t design a board for critical applications.
She sure likes to talk, nice presentation but could have been confined into < 10 minute
Thank you A Z
Exactly.
@@RobertFeranec To each his own. Not being familiar with the chemistry involved in the board manufacturing process, I found her discussion very informative and wouldn't have minded if her presentation was twice as long...
@@ats89117 Thank you very much for leaving your feedback here. I do not do long videos only to provide information. I find it very interesting to talk to different people and I really enjoy listening to what they are talking about. PS: What helps is to listen at 2x speed, I always do that (even for my own video).
@@RobertFeranec Pitch stabilized speed control is a really useful tool, but different people talk at different speeds. I watch Jim Williams' videos at 2X, but I watch your videos at 1.5X, and Kailey talks more quickly, so I watched her segments at normal speed. I also wanted to make sure that I would remember the details that she provided about each type of deposition.
But all in all, I found this very interesting, just as I found your discussion with Amit at Sierra Circuits very interesting. After designing boards for many years, it's nice to see how they are really made!