I've had my suiren for approx 6 months after spotting it in a hario shop in japan looking absolutely gorgeous, and realistically it brews the very similarly to my v60. It does look alot nicer on the kitchen shelf and my wife appreciates the aesthetics much more than the plastic v60 it has now replaced. Like the hario siphon, its not a brewer that adds to the coffee as much as it adds to the experience of using.
Lance's most recent video explains the slower drawdown. Suspend a paper filter in the air and pour water through it and you get basically no bypass. The number of contact points increases flowrate and sometimes bypass (if the contact is high up)
Daryl Bueno, a small creator, was the first person I saw post about the Suiren, he did some nice short videos on it worth checking out for those interested
I’ve had mine since June and I agree with your summary. I think the thing here is mostly the aesthetic and art of the v60 displayed from Hario. Quite literally them thinking outside the lines to make something fun and enjoyable. On another note, I have a jmax, but I am looking for a dedicated filter hand grinder. Is the kingrinder k6 a step backward, or should I just consider the zp6? I am fine with clarity, but not over the top clarity.
Thank you so much!!! I am working on getting both of these grinders to test, but general consensus seems to be the the k6 leans to pour over and the J to espresso, although they are both allrounders. If you wanted a really different experience you could grab a zp6 but you may. It prefer it all the time:)
You should check out Lance's most recent video with Matt Winton you'll really enjoy it. One of the main concepts they discuss in that video explains the difference in flow between these two drippers.
Might get it as i dont really think there's many travel friendly cone drippers out there! Thanks for the review! Wondering if you could do a review of the ct62 dripper. I bought one from a store in Australia. Said someone won a chinese barista competition with it. I've gotten some excellent cups with it but dont see many videos about it online.
The flow rate is likely entirely based on the filter, and optics are playing a roll in perceived flow rate, resulting in bias now being another variable in the experiment. If I had to guess, bias and margin of error are the likely culprits here. Liquid on the outside of the filter is no longer in contact with ground coffee -- whether there's more or less plastic. The V60 just has more opportunities to break the surface tension for the filter. I'd like to see an experiment involving something akin to a modbar.
Totally agree. It looks different so you really assume it’s gonna BE different. And if you don’t test, that assumption carries through to bias in taste. I was really surprised once I started running significant enough sample sizes and more often than not the difference was negligible. There are certainly cases where it CAN flow slower, and in these cases I am guessing that additional contact with the plastic wall of a v60 is what causes it. But it certainly doesn’t happen all the time. I have had many, many brews where they ran the same total brew time.
Interesting….. it looks like it would be subsequently more compact due to the removable fins… that alone, along with the aesthetics make me wanna pick one up
How does the dripper fit on the fellow carafe? I have a cafec flower 1 cup and it wobbles a lot because the circle shape of the dripper doesn’t sit properly on the carafe’s spout. Is it the same issue with a 2 cup dripper?
Yup totally have experienced this. The Suiren base is slightly “bowl” shaped so it sits nicely in the carafe with no rocking or sitting up on the spout. But, for that reason it can be trickier to get totally level
Please do one on blind shaker. Lance Hedrick did one and he says its better than WDT or the only method he is using. Other says the difference is marginal. Also, there was the issue of retention within the shaker that wasnt mentioned in Lance's vid.....is the blind shaker a gimmick or is it an useful tool for espresso
This is a solid idea and I have messed around with it. Short answer, I have found it makes an observable difference - but on some grinders more than others for sure. Some grinders it really brought a lot more consistency - others there may be a small statistical change but nothing super obvious. And the retention as you mentioned.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks. I invested in the mhw-bomber shaker (cant justify getting the one from weber workshop....) but cant really taste the difference (maybe my palate isnt as finetuned as Lance) and there is a ring impression on my portafilter which required me to do an additional step of WDT. Kind of like the shaker isnt doing the job or maybe i am not used to using it right....There isnt a ton of videos on the pros and cons,
... can not stop smiling ... It is Su-i-ren and not Surien... :-) Bought one in Japan, love it (especially when travelling). Nice review and from my experience I agree, that there is not much difference in taste to a "normal" V60 though there is no bypass with the Su-i-ren :-)
This is too funny - I was SO CLOSE to putting in a disclaimer about pronunciation. I couldn’t stick the way Japanese people say this, and when I saw a video of a Hario Usa employee at an expo pronouncing it this way I went with it. Clearly I need to work on my Japanese!
@@DaddyGotCoffee ... don't sweat it! Very nice review and the suiren is real eyecandy on any shelf! And thank you for taking the time to comment! I am impressed!
If you picked color ribs it would have a cool psychedelic aesthetic. But with the plastic I can’t do it. Give me glass or ceramic any day. As far as traveling with a V60 it’s not that awkward. Just stuff it with socks, and hey, they can double as filters.
@@cloudyview I have both the glass and ceramic hario switch. They seem to preheat fine with a filter rinse. Good coffee doesn’t need to be scalding hot.
I ❤my Suiren! Slow draw, especially perfect for a lovely decaf. Matched with a Cafec T90 or Abaca I get great results with this dripper. Plus, I think it looks lovely.
These two drippers have similar rib design hence similar paper filter contact/no contact area shape which affect the brew time most. You can watch Lance Hedrick latest video collaborated with Matt Winton for detailed explanation.
This video wasn’t out when I recorded but I have watched and my experience totally reflects Matt’s observations. Really great video. The standard v60 does contact a little more with the extra ribs around the top and sometimes sagging between the ribs contacting the dripper wall. Any time the standard v60 does flow a little faster in relation to the suiren I would attribute it to this.
Thought. If the channels on the V60 are there to work for better flow and add the the overall experience of making a great cup of coffee would not removing the channels detract from that?
I really thought there would have been a more significant and repeatable change as a result of this design. The bottom line, it was a lot less significant of a factor than I expected. Many other things you can change have a bigger impact. The ribs are still there, the filter is still suspended between the ribs in both versions, the ribs are the same size and shape, and the brews are… very v60 like! I was surprised too!
I wonder if this dripper is playing on the idea from Lance’s latest video with the brew champion on the paper contact to the walls of a dripper can affect the extraction. The Suiren may take that affect away by not having walls for the paper to stick in some area and not in others. Just a thought…
I think that any time the standard v60 flows slightly faster this is what is happening. But, sometimes the drippers would exhibit exactly the same flow rate as well
I’ve been playing with the Suiren for about a month and with my brew set up I do get consistently 30 second longer brew times on the Suiren all things being equal (coffee, grinder, grind size, water temp, recipe, pour height). I do wonder if it could be my swirl is slightly different with the Suiren or maybe it’s slightly angled because of my carafe. At the end of the day, my Suiren brews have been slightly more mellow and slightly more extracted because increased tbt, but profile wise they’re basically the same. Suiren is pretty though
I was able to reproduce this sometimes but not all the time - not quite to this degree though. Out of curiosity what filters do you use? I find some filters sag in a v60 more, contacting the walls between the ribs which could account for some of these differences. Agreed on the profile!
I was just wondering if it may be filter dependent 🤔 I’m using Cafec abaca filters, Zerno with brew burrs at 550 um, 93 C, 20 g dose at 60 g/L, with 2 min bloom, pour to 200 g, then at ~3 min pour to 333 g. Tbt changed depending on coffee, but drawdowns were pretty consistent between brews with Suiren being reliably +30 seconds. Usually my tbt is 4-4.5 min
@@cade5400I never got a difference this large but also typically did smaller doses. A couple thoughts. I think filters absolutely play a role - I tested with both abacas and hario tabbed in various configs. The abacas can tend to sag a little more, which can increase contact points in a standard v60 and cause faster flow. Also, larger pours will fill up the filter more and again, increase the potential for sag and additional contact between ribs on the standard v60, when compared to smaller pulse pours. Again I tested both. Pre-wet/not I think can also impact sag as well as length of bloom and size of dose. I think there is something here but more in a combination of factors than a simple “Suiren will always flow slower”. I’m some cases it will, in others it won’t. Very fun exercise regardless - really appreciate you chiming in with your notes!
My fave v60 is a Taiwan collab with Lins Ceramic (Mud Rock V60). But I run it under hot water in the sink for 3-4 min. Plastic is nice because you can skip that. But also, if you’re trying to minimize plastic ceramic/glass could be better
@@DaddyGotCoffee A galloping horse wouldn’t notice it! Anyway, nicely put together comparison 👍👏. It looks like an interesting take on the old traditional version.
![[TH] FS vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Lower Bracket Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wnygqsR2Fig/mqdefault.jpg)
I've had my suiren for approx 6 months after spotting it in a hario shop in japan looking absolutely gorgeous, and realistically it brews the very similarly to my v60. It does look alot nicer on the kitchen shelf and my wife appreciates the aesthetics much more than the plastic v60 it has now replaced. Like the hario siphon, its not a brewer that adds to the coffee as much as it adds to the experience of using.
Exactly! I’ve loved having it around, but not for a radically different brew
Might get it once it available to me locally because my clear plastic V60 has started cracking after 6 years of use
Lance's most recent video explains the slower drawdown. Suspend a paper filter in the air and pour water through it and you get basically no bypass. The number of contact points increases flowrate and sometimes bypass (if the contact is high up)
I watched and yes, great vid
This is first and foremost, art. It's beautiful and I'd buy it simply for this reason.
Every time I pull it out for friends the reaction I get is “wow”
Daryl Bueno, a small creator, was the first person I saw post about the Suiren, he did some nice short videos on it worth checking out for those interested
I actually met Daryl while working on this video! Great dude!
If you think this is good for travel, check out the Hario Zebrang range
I definitely need to review this!
I’ve had mine since June and I agree with your summary. I think the thing here is mostly the aesthetic and art of the v60 displayed from Hario. Quite literally them thinking outside the lines to make something fun and enjoyable.
On another note, I have a jmax, but I am looking for a dedicated filter hand grinder. Is the kingrinder k6 a step backward, or should I just consider the zp6? I am fine with clarity, but not over the top clarity.
Thank you so much!!! I am working on getting both of these grinders to test, but general consensus seems to be the the k6 leans to pour over and the J to espresso, although they are both allrounders. If you wanted a really different experience you could grab a zp6 but you may. It prefer it all the time:)
Thanks for the video!
One note: it's pronounced "swee-ren." It's the Japanese word for water lily. You can see the resemblance.
Thank you! Clearly I need to work on my Japanese!
Sur ron, it's Chinese for Electric Bike.
@@tristanwwsd lololol
@@tristanwwsd electric bike dripper. Would review. 🤣🤷♂️☕️
You should check out Lance's most recent video with Matt Winton you'll really enjoy it. One of the main concepts they discuss in that video explains the difference in flow between these two drippers.
Might get it as i dont really think there's many travel friendly cone drippers out there! Thanks for the review! Wondering if you could do a review of the ct62 dripper. I bought one from a store in Australia. Said someone won a chinese barista competition with it. I've gotten some excellent cups with it but dont see many videos about it online.
I’ll put it on the list! I’ve seen it around
The flow rate is likely entirely based on the filter, and optics are playing a roll in perceived flow rate, resulting in bias now being another variable in the experiment. If I had to guess, bias and margin of error are the likely culprits here. Liquid on the outside of the filter is no longer in contact with ground coffee -- whether there's more or less plastic. The V60 just has more opportunities to break the surface tension for the filter. I'd like to see an experiment involving something akin to a modbar.
Totally agree. It looks different so you really assume it’s gonna BE different. And if you don’t test, that assumption carries through to bias in taste. I was really surprised once I started running significant enough sample sizes and more often than not the difference was negligible. There are certainly cases where it CAN flow slower, and in these cases I am guessing that additional contact with the plastic wall of a v60 is what causes it. But it certainly doesn’t happen all the time. I have had many, many brews where they ran the same total brew time.
Interesting….. it looks like it would be subsequently more compact due to the removable fins… that alone, along with the aesthetics make me wanna pick one up
Absolutely - and these are great reasons to grab one
How does the dripper fit on the fellow carafe? I have a cafec flower 1 cup and it wobbles a lot because the circle shape of the dripper doesn’t sit properly on the carafe’s spout. Is it the same issue with a 2 cup dripper?
Yup totally have experienced this. The Suiren base is slightly “bowl” shaped so it sits nicely in the carafe with no rocking or sitting up on the spout. But, for that reason it can be trickier to get totally level
Please do one on blind shaker. Lance Hedrick did one and he says its better than WDT or the only method he is using. Other says the difference is marginal. Also, there was the issue of retention within the shaker that wasnt mentioned in Lance's vid.....is the blind shaker a gimmick or is it an useful tool for espresso
This is a solid idea and I have messed around with it. Short answer, I have found it makes an observable difference - but on some grinders more than others for sure. Some grinders it really brought a lot more consistency - others there may be a small statistical change but nothing super obvious. And the retention as you mentioned.
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks. I invested in the mhw-bomber shaker (cant justify getting the one from weber workshop....) but cant really taste the difference (maybe my palate isnt as finetuned as Lance) and there is a ring impression on my portafilter which required me to do an additional step of WDT. Kind of like the shaker isnt doing the job or maybe i am not used to using it right....There isnt a ton of videos on the pros and cons,
... can not stop smiling ... It is Su-i-ren and not Surien... :-) Bought one in Japan, love it (especially when travelling). Nice review and from my experience I agree, that there is not much difference in taste to a "normal" V60 though there is no bypass with the Su-i-ren :-)
This is too funny - I was SO CLOSE to putting in a disclaimer about pronunciation. I couldn’t stick the way Japanese people say this, and when I saw a video of a Hario Usa employee at an expo pronouncing it this way I went with it. Clearly I need to work on my Japanese!
@@DaddyGotCoffee ... don't sweat it! Very nice review and the suiren is real eyecandy on any shelf! And thank you for taking the time to comment! I am impressed!
@@raitro🔥☕️💪😊
If you picked color ribs it would have a cool psychedelic aesthetic. But with the plastic I can’t do it. Give me glass or ceramic any day. As far as traveling with a V60 it’s not that awkward. Just stuff it with socks, and hey, they can double as filters.
🤣🤣🤣
My problem with glass/ceramic is the heat sink - you have spend time/energy/resources getting the brewer hot before brewing the coffee...
@@cloudyview I have both the glass and ceramic hario switch. They seem to preheat fine with a filter rinse. Good coffee doesn’t need to be scalding hot.
Are you going to be doing a Fellow Aiden review?
You better believe it! It’s on bar right now
Never heard of lime and nectarine flavored coffee. That doesn't sound very appealing
Loving your content, thanks
Thank you so much!
Great video as usual. Coolio.
Thank Joel!
Goodness gracious 😭
Right?
I ❤my Suiren! Slow draw, especially perfect for a lovely decaf. Matched with a Cafec T90 or Abaca I get great results with this dripper. Plus, I think it looks lovely.
+1 for abaca. Currently my go to for this type of dripper
I have that same simple plastic v60 - cleaning this new thing seems like a nightmare by comparison.
It does look gorgeous though
A quick rinse when you’re done does the job well enough.. but yeah. Agreed
These two drippers have similar rib design hence similar paper filter contact/no contact area shape which affect the brew time most. You can watch Lance Hedrick latest video collaborated with Matt Winton for detailed explanation.
This video wasn’t out when I recorded but I have watched and my experience totally reflects Matt’s observations. Really great video. The standard v60 does contact a little more with the extra ribs around the top and sometimes sagging between the ribs contacting the dripper wall. Any time the standard v60 does flow a little faster in relation to the suiren I would attribute it to this.
I picked that exact color combo, arriving this next Monday ✌️
So fun!
Thought. If the channels on the V60 are there to work for better flow and add the the overall experience of making a great cup of coffee would not removing the channels detract from that?
I really thought there would have been a more significant and repeatable change as a result of this design. The bottom line, it was a lot less significant of a factor than I expected. Many other things you can change have a bigger impact. The ribs are still there, the filter is still suspended between the ribs in both versions, the ribs are the same size and shape, and the brews are… very v60 like! I was surprised too!
Now hario just needs to make a kaleidoscope 🤣
Hahahaha this isn’t far off!
I wonder if this dripper is playing on the idea from Lance’s latest video with the brew champion on the paper contact to the walls of a dripper can affect the extraction. The Suiren may take that affect away by not having walls for the paper to stick in some area and not in others. Just a thought…
th-cam.com/video/HzgD0AwrTvg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Q1WO6AAFC8QwmF1R
I think that any time the standard v60 flows slightly faster this is what is happening. But, sometimes the drippers would exhibit exactly the same flow rate as well
Ribbed for coffee's comfort.
🥵😏
Crazy v60 ornament 😂
It does look great 🤣🤷♂️☕️
I’ve been playing with the Suiren for about a month and with my brew set up I do get consistently 30 second longer brew times on the Suiren all things being equal (coffee, grinder, grind size, water temp, recipe, pour height). I do wonder if it could be my swirl is slightly different with the Suiren or maybe it’s slightly angled because of my carafe.
At the end of the day, my Suiren brews have been slightly more mellow and slightly more extracted because increased tbt, but profile wise they’re basically the same. Suiren is pretty though
I was able to reproduce this sometimes but not all the time - not quite to this degree though. Out of curiosity what filters do you use? I find some filters sag in a v60 more, contacting the walls between the ribs which could account for some of these differences. Agreed on the profile!
I was just wondering if it may be filter dependent 🤔
I’m using Cafec abaca filters, Zerno with brew burrs at 550 um, 93 C, 20 g dose at 60 g/L, with 2 min bloom, pour to 200 g, then at ~3 min pour to 333 g. Tbt changed depending on coffee, but drawdowns were pretty consistent between brews with Suiren being reliably +30 seconds. Usually my tbt is 4-4.5 min
@@cade5400I never got a difference this large but also typically did smaller doses. A couple thoughts. I think filters absolutely play a role - I tested with both abacas and hario tabbed in various configs. The abacas can tend to sag a little more, which can increase contact points in a standard v60 and cause faster flow. Also, larger pours will fill up the filter more and again, increase the potential for sag and additional contact between ribs on the standard v60, when compared to smaller pulse pours. Again I tested both. Pre-wet/not I think can also impact sag as well as length of bloom and size of dose. I think there is something here but more in a combination of factors than a simple “Suiren will always flow slower”. I’m some cases it will, in others it won’t. Very fun exercise regardless - really appreciate you chiming in with your notes!
@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks for sharing those thoughts, all good points! Really enjoyed this video and your comments around it
Get a ceramic V60 (which retains heat better than plastic V60), or a Surien?
ceramic is not better at heat retention than plastic
My fave v60 is a Taiwan collab with Lins Ceramic (Mud Rock V60). But I run it under hot water in the sink for 3-4 min. Plastic is nice because you can skip that. But also, if you’re trying to minimize plastic ceramic/glass could be better
@@bohdaaanek Then how come we drink our coffee and tea with ceramic cups than plastic? :P
@@bohdaaanek Have you done experiments to show your assertion? ;)
I don't understand why people keep trying to reinvent the Chemex. The Chemex has never failed me.
V60 > chemex
@@philipbaltazar9220 = False
I'd subscribe because this was a good video, but you calling yourself daddy is unsettling 🤔
My kids coined it. Maybe one day I’ll change it, till then, I’m a dad first ☺️☕️
@@DaddyGotCoffee that makes it less unsettling for sure so I subbed 😉
I think it’s meant to be pronounced “swee-ren” - “suiren” means “water lily” in Japanese. 🪷
Will have to stick the pronunciation next time 🫠☕️
@@DaddyGotCoffee A galloping horse wouldn’t notice it! Anyway, nicely put together comparison 👍👏. It looks like an interesting take on the old traditional version.
@@hakanaimountainmoon ☺️ thank you!!