The Truth About V60 Filter Papers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Sidenote: I made a small mistake - the latest supplier is the 2nd Japanese factory, who are a more recent addition than the one from the Netherlands.
Thanks to Brewed by Hand for helping me source all the different papers!
Have you tried the different papers? What are you thoughts?
Links:
Patreon: / jameshoffmann
My Book: geni.us/atlasofcoffee
Limited Edition Merch: www.tenshundredsthousands.com
Instagram: / jimseven
Twitter: / jimseven
My coffee kit (studio): kit.co/jimseven/studio-coffee...
My video kit: kit.co/jimseven/video-making-... - บันเทิง
Can you give official tasting notes on those paper filters, I'm done with coffee now
When you start drinking water with paper soaking in it it's time for an intervention.
Or an award....I was thinking you're my hero, this is brilliant! I never would have thought to do that, it's an easy way to test filter flavor.
And the test was noot conclusive for me since he didn't clean the spoon between the 3 water tests and also since he didn't took a piece of bread in between to neutralise the previous experience. It is sure that tasting filter no 3 with a sppon that was plunged already in water no 1 and 2 it altered the taste . Netherlland company should complain .
James , if you ever come to Montreal ,go to the district called Le Plateau . You will loved it . It is made for peoples like you . You will fit in the second you 're in .
... This is how you brew coffee in a regular coffee pot. Coffee filters are hardly a new thing.
"Not unpleasant actually"
@@Nicolas-zb9uw there are cuts inbetween, usually most tastetests cut the palletcleanse Part as it doesnt Provide any benefit to the viewer. I'm sure as a pro he knows how to taste stuff correctly 😅
Cupping paper filter with a proper slurp - you made my day! :D
Maybe it's becoming his muscle memory :D
I'm actually a bit disappointed he didn't do a blind on those paper filter cupping
Lol
As a paper conservator I thought I have seen most things you could or would do with paper. The tasting is a new one.
A thinner paper can still contain more fibre, or the fibre could be more fibrillated. It would make sense that a 'fluffier' paper would let liquid through more readily than a more compressed, dense, thinner paper.
Yea but the filter holes size are different on both filters.
@@jaimep3432 That's pretty much what he's saying. Denser fibers means smaller "holes" in the paper.
Why did I just watch a grown man make and taste paper tea?
and describe it with "...not unpleasant actually.."
Because it is entirely reasonable to do so if you're approaching coffee from the perspective of an expert. The same way you'd design science experiments with independent variables, coffee can very well be viewed as a science with its own investigations and complexity. And just because coffee can easily be seen as a mundane and accessible commodity to everyone else, doesn't mean you should belittle the study of it either.
One of us ONE OF US
@@allykessler7742 I think the question may have been rethorical...
I never thought I'd find myself enjoying a video about coffee filters but here I am! Really interesting :)
This affects us all...
Welcome to the club!
This a very interesting video.. here in Indonesia, we got a recommendation from a lot of sources (cafe, social media, community) to use the 40 pcs paper filter box because the 100 pcs in that plastic bag significantly make the flow rates become slower and causing a bitternes in our V60 coffee where we demand for a sweet and pronounced clarity in our cup. Thank you for you experiment video Mr. Hoffmann 🙏
So you are also here doc, :'D
Btw yang di plastic bag yang mana yg bikin nambah brew time? Yang plastic bag yg terakhir? Kalo itu, saya setuju. Pake yang tabbed filter itu bikin brew time saya nambah 30 detik - 1 menit hahaha. Kalo plastik yg ditengah ga terlalu beda sama yg di kotak kog :D
well hello doc
Greetings from fellow Indonesian
Kalo sy pake yg 100 tinggal kasarin 1 atau 2 titik aja gilingannya, jd kecepatan aliran airnya bisa sama dgn yg 40. Tp jujur aja, sy ga bisa ngebedain perbedaan rasanya antara 100 dan 40..
Using 40 pack vs 100 pack filter is different? Am i undestanding this correct?
Woah! I love the side by side brew shots. That's incredible. Your consistency shows the difference of the filters (the point of the video). Well executed!
Hey guys here I go: I use number 1 and number 2 filter at my coffee shop. We serve Square Mile, Heart roaster and we have a couple other roaster that come and go. For us their was a big difference between the 2 filter, with a 30 sec average time difference. The thing is some coffee are better with the second version of the filter and other with the 1st version. To make it simple this is what we tasted (personal point of view): lighter coffee like Square Mile filter and Ethiopian coffee tend to taste better with the 2nd version. With the first version almost every coffee from Kenya tasted better. We brew around 10, V60 per day, so we have a sample of over 2 000 since we have the 2 filter. there you have it don't know if this is useful for any one. We can still find the 1st version un 100 pack but they are pretty rare it is probably some left over.
that's interesting, most coffees i buy are from costa rica or ethiopia, and i always use the 2nd version cuz its easily available on amazon for a good price. Whenever I buy kenya coffee it doesn't taste as good, maybe thats the reason
Thank you. Very interesting on the varietals. I have been doing V60 for about 2 years now. At first I had the #1 filters, but I was a novice at doing pour overs. At most other times I had the #2, as they were less expensive and still made in Japan. At some point I ordered the #3 on Amazon not realizing they were different. I had extremely long brew times and thought I needed to coarsen my grind. I think the filter was the only issue. I went back to the #2. Just this week I ordered the boxed version original again, and I have to say I notice an improvement over the #2, enough that I would spend the extra $. I will experiment with the lighter coffees to see if #2 tastes better on those coffees. I just made a natural process from Onyx on the #1 and I could REALLY pick up the tasting notes.
Serve nescafe
Really enjoyed the editing of the side by brew comparison. Nice work James!
3:27 all 3 of you adjust your shirt at the same point after rinsing the spoon 😂
It's amazing how little things become part of your routine once you've done it thousands of times
As a barista I too must adjust my sweater after rinsing my stir spoon, it’s just part of the process
Lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
I heard that it can improve the extraction
Thanks for the video James.. really thrilled and glad that you are back at it .. looking forward to to your V60 pour over how to video 👌🏼👍🏼
I'm waiting for someone to re-cut this into "10 hours of James Hoffmann tasting and commenting on paper water"
Solid topic choice. Love this. I recently tried a stainless steel 'fabric' type filter, and tried to make it work as I'll be travelling quite a bit, but alas it failed on every grind setting (with minimum fines EK)- which enevitably brought me back to disposable hario paper.
The wave of arm crossings at 3:45 is my favorite part
Hi James! Recently I noticed that the papers from the 2nd Japanese factory changed on the inside. They used to be relatively "rough" much like the outside of the filter. However the newer batch I received is very smooth and silky on the inside. After I started using these my brew time also increased with the exact same grind settings on the exact same beans. Just an observation to add :) Thanks for the video
Do you think the 2. factory may have gone over to using the Dutch recipe?
@@highonbanana8265 I don't think they would have gone down the route of using the same recipe, but humidity and the process of making these filters may be playing a part in this.
I just checked this and zebitz is totally right; it's softer on the inside. But with the first Japanese filters, they were also softer so that should result in it taking less time per brew-- at least I'd assume so.
That's what you do with your time?
Woah this really make sense now. I was kinda disturbed when they released w/tap version, not only it didn’t fit well but also I had to smell after rinsing to confirm the paper smell is gone and complaining why smell got stronger. Thanks for the video. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
I bought a Hario dripper and then realized I needed different filters. I ordered them before I watched your video, and I am happy to say they ARE made in Japan. Good thing I seen this and ordered the right ones the first time. Thank you.
oh wow, it's weird to not see your iconic sideswoop of hair! i think your current look is so cool and interesting. didn't realize you weren't doing it like that a few years ago. ALSO, this is gonna be a great vid for me. recently got a hario pourover and saw things i the comments about the diff packaging of filters being from diff places. i'd gotten the boxed version tho it was more $ per filter, because i saw one of your vids where you were using it and said the boxed one was specifically from the japanese factory. (and here you have even an extra one i've never seen!)
anyway, i'm so grateful of all the content you've put out, your experience, your humor, and personal touch. i learned about the barista championships from you to be quite honest. there's a lot of things in this world, hard to know about them all. it's great to be able to learn about them through others. much luff. thank you!
Great video thank you! Always wondered about the different packages. I regularly brew the double amount of water and ,, wash out " the filter with the boiling water before brewing the coffee with it.
Please do a review on the Melodrip! And your production quality is outstanding, I look forward to your new videos - especially the one on pourovers
i've noticed a weird trend when I buy them from some retailers, that the boxed ones are actually the shrink wrapped ones with the tabs, just stuck inside a hario box.
Just seen this video after noticing the 3 different styles online, I’m so glad you did this video, definitely looking for the 2nd factory ones now
From personal experience, I cannot brew a good of coffee from Dutch filters. This 100 package filters from Japan were once made in the original factory (before the got an indent and the paper "handle"). The new Japanese filters (with the indent and "handle") are slightly different but certainly are quite easy to adapt to coming from the originals.
I really love this! I’ve just moved to Europe and have been looking for an explanation of why the filter I got here was making my coffee so strong and weird. Thank you!!
Are you sure it's the filter? I'd say it's almost always the grind if it's the same coffee.
Genius! Thanks! I thought my grinder was run down, but it was my new filters from Holland that made the brew take forever.
Rewatching this, it's interesting to note how his production quality went way up... which is awesome to say because this is already quite good :).
He seems more comfortable in front of the camera, less echo in the audio, very fancy intros. And skits with fake mustaches :).
Thank you James, there are often queries on this subject and now I have a link to share :-)
From where I am we mostly have access to the 2nd Japanese factory kind and yes it is a little cardboardy if you dont rinse but the brew times that was very surprising. Once again another great video only found on James' channel
Thanks for another great video!! I am just finishing up a pack of filters I got with a Hario gift set and swore my results tasted different than in shop but thought I was making it up.
Would really have liked to have seen the unbleached filter use/taste. Also, would have liked to see him use them for the coffee to see if the prerinse cleared the taste issues up. Further, also would have liked to know if you can easily substitute another filter of similar shape without impacting the coffee brew process.
This is a really interesting take on refining taste for the coffee you make. I admit, I don’t always rinse my filter papers before brewing, BUT I love how this is making a final difference. Great video james
Literally my fourth time watching this in the last six months. So helpful...
Very informative, thank you. I wasn't even aware of the Dutch papers, also didn't know the two Japanese ones are made in different factories.
While working to tune my V60 brew, I was using the NL and 2nd JPN factory papers. I prefer the taste of the JPN papers. Today I repeated your experiment with the two Japanese papers and my timings were 3:00 for the original and 3:45 for the 2nd factory. To my very inexperienced and very untrained taste buds the taste is similar (difficult to have two brews at the same temperature). I can confirm what zebits states, the original is textured on both inside and out. The other papers are smooth on the inside. Also the fold is narrower with the original filters - less extranious paper after the ridges.
BTW - love your channel and really enjoyed the tasting!
I wish you would’ve also included the unbleached papers, I know it wouldn’t be a fair assessment because they’re not bleached but it would give a frame of reference to those who don’t want a bleached product to have your point of you on the 4 different paper taste and how that might affect your brewing. As always thanks for the great video!
I second !
Patrick McMullen Yes, I was confused there wasn’t even a mention of them apart from the fact that “You can get them.”
Yeah, not only did he not include a tasting of the unbleached filters, but also:
1. He did not include plain water as a control
2. He did not do it as a blind tasting
3. He did not cleanse his palate between each tasting
4. He did not rinse/wipe his spoon between each tasting
5. He did not do a tasting of the coffee brewed with each filter
I would like to know as well since the brown unbleached are the only v60 filters my local coffee shop sells.
@@robbw727
1) He probably knows what the water he drink every day tastes like. You also don't know that he didn't have a sip before tasting. Why would he include that in the video though? Maybe you're right but you can't know that.
2) Did it need to be blind? Is there a particular bias you think he needed to overcome?
3) There are cuts between each tasting. You don't know that he didn't.
4) There are cuts between each tasting. You don't know that he didn't.
5) Yeah, that could have been useful to hear but we already know that any of these papers can make good coffee right?
that music track while James brewed the coffee was an absolute banger
I did not realize there was a difference between the two Japanese made filters, though a series of otherwise inexplicable over extractions now makes sense. Excelsior sir!
I came to this channel a bit too late to experience the joy of someone tasting steeped filters, I am glad I have now experienced it
Thanks for doing this test!
A filter tasting. I love it! Perhaps I will do this at home to show my husband that rinsing the filter before brewing is a MUST! :)
After using the unbleached originals for a while, I just tried out the (bleached) ones from the 2nd Japanese factory, and I can clearly smell the sweet flavour while doing the pour over - and I can also clearly taste it in the cup. Not necessarily unpleasant, but definitely a weird taste I'm not sure I want to have in my cup. James, why haven't you included the unbleached originals into your experiment?
JBZ...you need to do a blind tasting...unlikely you'll be able to consistently taste a difference. Or test by
using a french press, no paper at all.
@@deevnn still kinda weird that he includes them in the start, but doesnt use them in the experiment. Maybe he already concluded that there is no difference. either way its odd and he should've said why he didnt include them.
Thanks for pointing it out. Quite frustrating as the unbleached are the only option available in my market
It's like watching 3 clones make coffee. Love this video. I started buying these filters and just assume there was just one make/model.
Wow, that's some serious commitment you are showing. Really interesting that the European filters (which I also bought) almost take a third more to brew! That clearly changes a lot in the taste profile.
It would be useful to repeat the test again to see if the results are similar
The reaction to water at 5:53 is genius. "O, Oooo"
thank god i'm not the only one who really enjoyed that lmao
Thanks James. Really interesting video. Always assumed the papers produced were to same specification. Can definitely 'taste the difference' between the papers too!
Sooo... I got a Hario V60 for christmas. Came in a nice box with some papers to the kit. I've spent the past ~month or so dialling in my technique and I was getting pretty close! It tasted really great using a 4:6 method and having a brewtime of around 3:20... Then I needed filters. Bought some V60 filters at the local shop. Got home. Started a brew similar to the one I've been dialling in (I'm new to this!)... And the brewtime increased to around 4:30 :lol: All because of, what I now know is, Dutch filter paper. It's really astonishing what you need to factor in to your brew. But then again: That's all parts of the fun!
Three hoffmen brewing together was surreal. Pleasant, but surreal
Thank you I was confused about this on Amazon.
Great video. I’ve noticed very little difference between the 2 Japanese filters. Will probably switch to the new filters when I run out of the originals.
Thanks for a great video confirming my experience. Yesterday I ran out of my 40-pack (original from Japan), and started to use my 100-pack (from the Netherlands). So instead of a a draw down time of 3:00 minutes (for 30 grams of coffee with 500 grams of water), the draw down time increased with 45 seconds to 3:45 minutes. A pretty big difference! Regarding the most important aspect, the taste, it seems like the filters from Netherlands give a slight bitterness to the coffee (which I guess is related to the longer draw down time).
I experienced the same. Went back to the ones from Japan.
Drink nescafe
@@Vanguardkl nescafé gold is a great instant coffee.
edit: you’re just a troll and your opinion is irrelevant.
@@Vanguardkl 😂
Excellent James 👍 Thank you !
Another great video James!
I've been using the category-3 filters made in the EU and the brewing comes out better than any other paper filter I've used before.
watching old james videos really shows how much the quality of his videos has improved
When I first got my V60, I received the tabbed filters. I kept seeing recipes saying 2-3 minutes, and my brews were taking 3:30+. Way over extracted and bad. Took me weeks before I figured out it was the filters. Switched to the original and it made a huge difference. Glad to see some testing that I'm not crazy!
@@jameshoffmann The tabbed Japanese filters seem to allow more fines to travel down to the bed instead of trapping them in the fibers of the filter wall. I think this can contribute to greater differences if the grinder used produces a lot of fines. I assume you're using an EK and would therefore see a much less pronounced effect on overall brew times than other grinders. Great topic for a video. Thanks!!
@@jameshoffmannthese tabbed ones from Japan have been extremely slow for me. Have you tried more than one? Every now and then it drains fast, but most of the time it's super slow. 4:00 - 4:30 finish when it used to be done by 3:00.
Trust me you are
Oh my gosh! I have never heard of rinsing my filter befor using!
Good video. Very helpful. Thanks!
Killer beats in this one! Great work as always, James. :)
Saw someone reference this video in an Amazon Q&A about the v60 papers. Didn't mention the channel by name, but did mention the manufacturing locations and qualities of each one.
my personal experience, now i brew with dutch filters, totally difficult to get balanced cup , even with different grinding levels by fancy grinder
Same here
The Netherlands filters were most widely available where I live for a long while. I had honed my brew method to something I really really liked, but suddenly they switched to the rectangular tabbed ones and my whole method was ruined! I had to grind a lot finer to accommodate for the increased waterflow
Which do you prefer if you had easy access to either and if not would it be worth extra hassle to get the one you preferred?
Really interesting!
Thanks👍🏻
I was surprised he didn't actually taste the coffee to see if he could detect a difference (not that it would be accurate since previous tasting would affect subsequent ones). But just for general impression
Great video! Buying my first V60 today!
I didn't know what I'd always needed in my life was dude tasting different coffee filters brewed in hot water like a true aficionado, which I think he probably is, other than the manufacturers themselves.
I liked the idea to taste the paper:). Good review!
So strange to stumble on this video - I bought some of the third kind and had struggled to make a coffee I wanted to drink; thought I had a bad batch. Now all is clear. Thanks!
Been using a V60 since Xmas, only ever used filter #2. Have thoroughly enjoyed every cup used, trying the different micro roasters around in San Diego. Bird Rock being the best so far.
Simon Y bird rocks brews on the kalita btw! I was just at their Torrey pines location!
This is my favorite James Hoffmann video.
It's the Jameshoffmanniest of videos. Paper taste testing!
If you ever brew v60 for two people then you definitely want the boxed original filters for the faster flow rate. The improved flow rate provides more recipe options, the best of which I find to be finer grinds available at the same or faster flow rates... yummy! I use the #3 size boxed filters when brewing 45g/700ml (1:15.5). Regarding rinsing Hario filters, I find I have to rinse the #3 natural colored filters a good 5-6 revolutions to be confident of the filter not influencing the final cup. With the bleached filters (I don't believe they are actually bleached to whiten,) I find I only need 3 revolutions to rinse well.
Oh! I personally never thought there can be such differences in V60 filters. Afterall they are all branded as Hario. We brew V60 in my previous job and always bought the same package of filters. I never had a change to compare with the other ones.
Great review! More! 😊
Is the Patreon already up?
Very interesting. I have the dutch filters, and it may be the reason I fell out of love with my V60. I could never get a constant brew that I was really happy with. That said, I also had to change my grinder when my old one stopped working, so who knows?
Request for a V60 pour over 'how to' video please.
I've only ever used the original filters, but based on what I read I had the same experiences with Kalitta filters my job got on Amazon.
So far I've much much prefered the loose bag V60 papers. They hold the water better, they have a thicker texture and allow for some good contact time whereas the original cardboard box ones are very thin and hard to work with. The cardboard box ones feel nice and soft but they pretty much fall apart under moisture. Plus they don't have a tab!
Another interesting review would be Melitta's range of coffee filters. I use the Intense one that promises a better extraction with longer brewing time.
I was gifted a Hario V60 and when the starter pack of filters was used up I went looking for replacement. Not so easy here in Costa Rica. The corporate coffee mill where the brewer was purchased sold them for about $10. I wasn't about to help them get a big profit marking the filters up. A friend sewed a cloth filter for me. Then I saw a video from one of your contemporaries on how to fold a no.4 Melitta filter to fit the V60. I have a 10 cup Melitta pourover brewer. I had some Melitta filters I brought down here from the US. Tried it and that worked great. One day shopping in a supermarket here I found a pack of 100 Melitta style no 4 filters. They are made in the USA and cost about $2.50. Problem solved.
i’m glad you live in a superior central american country; and not in those poverty-ridden, gang-infested, prostitution-filled, corrupt and violent countries like hoduras, nigeragua, and el salvadork
Thank you James for tasting the paper filters so that we don't have to!
I'm quite tempted to try the Dutch filters in my Stanwell tobacco pipe with a nice Latakia blend, they seem ideal...
I have bought both he tabbed and non-tabed filters in the loose plastic package. (both 100pc). Bought in Germany (non-tabbed) and Belgium (tabbed, 2nd in video). So sometimes the untabbed are in loose plastic packaging too. both were 01 size. Didn't see the nl ones with the tab in the middle here yet.
You're awesome. Very informative video. Thanx.
Really interesting actually! I guess most people don’t know there is a difference between the filters at all. My chemex is almost unused because of the strong floral aroma of the filter even after rinsing. The v60 is a lot cleaner to me.
I am absolutely agree with that test. I bought the Netherlands filters an I was really shocked that my favorite V60 recipe now brewing around 3:20 instead 2:30 with the same grinding...
diddums
How did it affect the taste? Did the 3:20 end up being bitter? Did you adjust the grind to get 2:30, and if so, did you achieve the same flavor?
Thanks for this video! 🙋🏼♂️
When the tabbed hario filter first came out, it threw me off really bad, with significantly longer brew time. Back then my v60 recipe used quite fine of a grind.
But now that im exploring coarser grinds, i came back to the tabbed filter. And its nice now!
Really interesting video! I never ever thought the difference between paper filters, it's good to know that, a doubt what happen with metal filters?
I go to my local market and buy unbleached paper filters. They don't fit exactly, but you can fold the sides so it fits. I still rinse the filter though before putting in the grinds. Coffee comes out delicious, and no paper taste. 😋
Great video James
I tried this with some filters to check the swelling, you can weight the filter right from the package and after that you can make the same as you did to taste the filter flavour and weight them wet that you subtract and have the amount of water that stays in the filter. Can you try that and update this information on the video description
Excellent, as usual. How about comparing paper filters with some of the metal filters out there?
Good to have this confirmed. Should've sought this out sooner...
Hi James,
Thanks for making this video. I have used all 3 paper filters (4 if you include the unbleached paper as well) myself and my experiences in regards to brew time match those in the video. There is another thing I noticed with the newer tabbed filters: the seams are a lot bigger than on the original and when you fold it over the filter loses its isosceles triangle shape and it doesn’t sit flush anymore with the dripper.
Also, it’d be interesting to learn more on the impact of the different filters on the resulting brewed coffee. This is something you didn’t touch upon in your video and I’m hoping you’re willing to do. Perhaps run some experiments (same grind setting, same brew time, same TDS even?) using an automated system, like the Marco SP9, to minimise any inconsistencies and then blind taste the coffees?
Stefan Mirck how does the unbleached compare?
I talked with a Hario rep at a coffee convention about filters once, and its worth noting there have been 2 versions of the japanese tabbed filters. When they first came out, they were causing dramatically longer brew times (mine went from 3:00 on classic tabless to 4:30 on tabbed version 1). They have since been changed a bit so the brew times are similar as the original japanese ones. Really unfortunate that theyve caused so much confusion and uncertainty because of the different manufacturers and poor consistency.
so when buying the tabbed japanese ones and they happen to be a little older there is still a danger I get a very unpleasing surprise?
@@TheSuspect28 most likely not, I doubt anywhere has 3+ year old stock at this point
I'm getting very long draw down times with tabbed japanese bag filters ... it's taking at least 4:00 - 4:30 when it used to finish within 3:00.
And it's somewhat inconsistent, every now and then one of the filters drains faster than the others from the same bag of tabbed japanese filters. I bought these in October 2018.
@@PaulSolt I actually have exactly 15 seconds more. So you might had bad luck and got some from the bad batch
@@TheSuspect28 I'm going to try and get some of the original non-tab versions to compare. My hario's have been inconsistent ever since I ordered new filters 6 months ago and it's been driving me crazy.
Interesting review! Thanks :)
Your video always awesome!!
Haha great man. Really enjoyed that. Askin my self the same. Thanks for doing that.
ok, this is the moment, watching James Hoffmann slurping paper infusion, that I realise I have to get back to my book. Even so, great video :DDDD
I was surprised to find out that the boxed paper filter would cost less than the 100pcs in plastic packaging from our local seller. I haven't tried them yet. I'll get them next time. Thanks for your videos.
Very informative video.
I use a metal filter which can take quite awhile to steep. But I've made very good coffee with it.
Any chance to revisit this topic but include the unbleached filters?