Huge respect that you recorded this raw. Best sc2 content I've seen in years. You have to give us a 7 wins in a row video now, give printf a chance to adapt, its the honorable thing to do. Thanks for the content Harstem
he didn't even need to click it, just a-move for 1 sec xD it feels like the AI, i think you could just block him with a wall of hold-position probes xD
I love how there are so many different things Hastem could kill in order to slow down the cannon rush but instead he focuses none of those things and attacks random stuff.
@@jclouw4785 He's not blind countering with a pool before hatch, he very specifically said this in the video. He wants to be able to *respond* to the cannon rush naturally and not blind counter.
10:25 instead of chasing the stalkers, 1 bile volley at the pylon and cannon that are touching would have killed the cannon, unpowered the gateway and 2 shield batteries. You had him on the ropes
This is the best content by the Captain himself of the passing year. It left me in tears of laughter like no other sc2 content. We love you Harstem, thank you for everything, happy holidays! And hope your wife will get her deserved flowers.
As a D1 Zerg who’s been cannon rushed more times than I can count, I was yelling at the screen this entire time for you to just take the damn 3rd!!!! Ahhh!!!!
Surely it’s pretty simple for the Protoss to take down your hatchery if they’re going stalkers, or at least deny all mining. Is it just for production outside of the contain?
Well. At least you WON the game of "Tell me you don't know how to respond to a cannon-rush, without Saying you don't know how to respond to a cannon-rush". Decisively
Zero effort in getting damage on the pylons...stopping new cannons, ending unit heal and cutting off his reinforcements. Then building a proxy hatch to do absolutely nothing with it ?
Yeah IDK why he thinks it's a good idea to keep 300 early game minerals tied up in a hatch he KNOWS he's gonna cancel in 30 seconds. Either send the proxy immediately, or take the 3rd, or build a hidden base. So many options and he keeps trying the same thing.
@@JonCrombe if he cancels it immediately then the protoss wont invest more minerals in building cannons there. He's trying to get him to invest more before canceling so protoss loses more minerals.
Sure, here’s a detailed explanation on how to defend against a cannon rush as Zerg in StarCraft 2: How to Defend Cannon Rush as Zerg: Scout Early: Send your Overlord towards the opponent’s natural expansion or the edges of your own main base. At around the 12 supply mark, send a Drone to scout around your base perimeter to look for any suspicious Probe activity. Identify the Cannon Rush Quickly: If you spot a Probe in an unusual location and see Pylons being built, it’s likely a cannon rush. Look for hidden Pylons around your base or natural expansion. Pull Drones to Deal with the Probe: Use 2-3 Drones to chase and kill the Probe to prevent further construction. Targeting the Probe directly is critical as it stops the rush entirely if there's no backup Probe. Prioritize Building Cancellations: If Cannons are being built, focus Drones on canceling Pylons or Cannons that are close to completing but not protected yet. Avoid losing Drones unnecessarily-only pull what’s needed. Expand Away from the Rush: If the cannon rush denies your natural or main, consider taking another base far away (even at your third or fourth location). Roach Warren Response: If the rush completes and there are Cannons, drop a Roach Warren and build a few Roaches to push out. Roaches can outrange Cannons and destroy Pylons. Spine Crawlers if Needed: In extreme cases, Spine Crawlers can be used for defense. Use them to push towards Cannons or hold choke points. Adapt Your Build Order: If the rush is delayed but persistent, build Queens and Zerglings. Queens have good range and can assist in breaking Pylons. Focus on speedlings to outmaneuver static defenses or harass the Protoss base. Macro While Defending: Don’t overcommit to Drone pulls or defense at the cost of falling far behind in economy. Transition to your normal strategy after neutralizing the threat. Creep Spread and Vision: Spread creep around your main and natural to gain better vision. This will make it harder for the Protoss to sneak additional structures. Harstem, if you’re reading this: We appreciate the content! Hopefully, this advice lines up with what you'd recommend or expect. Cannon rushes may be the bane of ladder games, but there’s nothing better than clutching out a solid defense! 💪
I watched the first game as I was laying down for a nap and fell asleep during the second game. I woke up to you winning, which makes me wonder what you did for the rest of my nap...
So this was refreshing to see. I often struggle on the ladder that sometimes makes me frustrated (I am in gold, so nowhere near this level), but seeing you handling this frustration gave me hope. :D One day I hit platinum. :D
same here, i'm just a gold player myself, only way i beat them is 12 pool by luck vs 2 hatch then pool lol and if i don't catch it then turtle on one base till break it then 2 or 3 more hatches when possible. Hope we both get plat one day!
Extra macro hatches are always the key to moving up at lower leagues. Especially with the new cost balance. You can support 2 macro hatches (total 3) off 1 base eco Zerg ling production with pool first.
How to deal with cannon rushers as a zerg? ChatGPT said: ChatGPT Scout Early: Send your first Overlord to their base and use a Drone to scout your natural expansion. Look for a Forge and suspicious Pylon placement. Pull Drones: If you spot a Pylon and Forge near your base, pull enough Drones (5-7) to attack the Probe and cancel construction. Focus on the building Cannons and Pylons first, then the Probe. Build a Spine Crawler: If Cannons are already up, build a Spine Crawler in range to take them out safely. Use Queens and Zerglings to defend while the Spine Crawler does its job. Expand Elsewhere: If the Cannon rush is overwhelming your natural, expand to another base location and continue your economy. Use Zerglings for counter-pressure. Zergling Counterattack: Once you hold the rush or relocate, produce Zerglings to pressure their base. They’ll likely have a weak economy. Adapt Tech: Transition to Roaches, Mutalisks, or a strong economy-focused build depending on their follow-up strategy. Stay Calm: React quickly and decisively, but don’t panic. Efficient Drone micro and scouting are key to shutting down Cannon rushers.
The main problem is you need to have more skill than your opponent to win a canon rush. That's why so many people struggle with it even if they know how to counter it.
Game 6 was so bad :(, spread your creep, pool energy on the queens, quit wasting minerals on an expand. Harstem your mining far to much gas, you don't need more than 4-5 ravengers, you really should pull off gas after you have them just build more queens and lings or roach.
27:50 would a quick second expand make since after killing the last pylon? Especially considering how much he was floating after that fight? Then he would be in a safer spot to increase his income, and arrange for surrounds to counter printf's counter attack...
in game two, right at the start you had a ravager that went down to like 5% hp. Why not remove it from your control group as if you lost it. make a 3rd queen. now they can spread creep, help you with the push, and every ravager that lives on 5% or less hp can back up and get transfused.
I was wondering what the point of the base on the other side of the map was -- it mostly didn't seem to be doing anything. Lower worker count + base on your own side of the map seems to have done the trick. One bit of advice from a platinum-level Zerg: When spawning an overlord, ALWAYS ALWAYS decide where you want it to rally when you create it. It would have saved you so much grief in these games if you'd rallied the overlords somewhere safe when spawning it.
This just feel like content trolling. Feels like you are throwing every game from the start. Never seen any kind of zerg loose to any cannon rush in years.
It helps, I mean two gate production for say four rounds before warpgate, that's 24 seconds taken off in stalker build time. Not crazy, but it is helpful
Love what we get to see of the chat between him and printf between games. Also, I can't get over the mmr values over the course of the video. Starts at -25, drops to -17 over the course of his losses, to +28 when he finally gets the win.
12:15 I am a very bad zerg player so take this opinion with salt, but bile on the stalkers is a waste compared to bile pylons? I say this because I know I am bad zerg player and will always choice static bile target over moving ones.
He seems to bile the stalkers only when it's too risky to get in range of the buildings, so at least there's a chance to hit something and not waste the cooldown.
Use creep tumors more. It at least lets you deny the unpowered buildings, a tumor's creep range is farther than a canon's attack range, and the extra speed will help with kiting and surrounding his units.
I feel like screaming at the screen watching this. Normally I learn a lot from watching these, but in these matches he’s just trying the same stuff getting owned every time.
around 42:00, probably pull out of gas (at least 3 out since you had 6 mining) to get the 2 base mineral saturation faster, then pure speed lings are better vs stalkers
The point was that he was pretending like he didn't know he will be cannon-rushed. Like in normal game, you get surprised after deploying your natural expanse.
Thanks for making this guide on dealing with cannon rush so realistic. Untill you messaged a top-level zerg progamer and he told you what to do. First 6 games though show what it's like.
I don’t understand why he wouldn’t keep using the ravengers to one shot the cannons and batteries and kite back in that first game. Whittle down the static defense and pick a fight once there mass lings
I really enjoyed the videos in the past where printf would hop on a discord call with you and teach how to cannon rush better (I think it was that? Maybe it was how to hold vs a rush better in PvP?). Would have been a nice postmortem here to have a quick chat and ask "Hey what am I doing wrong?", assuming he was cool with it :)
Harstem is confused, he thinks protoss sucks so hard so he keeps trying to pounce on a set-up position with battery, cannon, stalker, exactly what the opponent wants him to do and the proxy hatchery is a terrible response and just a massive waste of resources.
I don't know what the winning strat for cannon rush is but after seeing the first five games I can say for certain that randomly suiciding 6 ravagers isn't it.
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
I'm even more afraid of the man who deliberately let others kick him 10,000 times
@@marinauder [slow clap]...
"Honey, date's canceled"
Her: "Why?":(
"I lost to a cannonrusher and need to snipe him."
lol
he tells her tomorrow we'll go on the date
"sorry honey, I need to cancel this one too. I have to go buy a new keyboard, unrelated to yesterday"
To be fair stopping cannon rushes is what puts food on the table. Or not stopping them. Doesn't matter that much as long as it's televised.
Huge respect that you recorded this raw. Best sc2 content I've seen in years. You have to give us a 7 wins in a row video now, give printf a chance to adapt, its the honorable thing to do. Thanks for the content Harstem
Wow Harstem’s ability to avoid clicking the probe and leaving buildings on 1hp is unparalleled. 😂
Or destroy two pylons
go easy on harstem obviously this is his first time playing this game. :D
or needlessly sacrificing overlords
he didn't even need to click it, just a-move for 1 sec xD
it feels like the AI, i think you could just block him with a wall of hold-position probes xD
Game 4 was a beautiful throw! Nicely done captain.
That game legitimately made me angry. I just about lost it when Harstem let him repower the 2 gates and 2 batteries in the natural.
I love how there are so many different things Hastem could kill in order to slow down the cannon rush but instead he focuses none of those things and attacks random stuff.
Petition to see Harstem look at these game on IODIS 😂 Jokes aside, I would enjoy to hear his thoughts.
Harstem not rallying his overlords to their death challenge (Impossible)
@@Spaminator3000 yeah, constant death rally and not going pool before hatch (which he cancels later…) priceless
@@jclouw4785 He's not blind countering with a pool before hatch, he very specifically said this in the video. He wants to be able to *respond* to the cannon rush naturally and not blind counter.
and somewhere in germany, lambo cries.
10:25 instead of chasing the stalkers, 1 bile volley at the pylon and cannon that are touching would have killed the cannon, unpowered the gateway and 2 shield batteries. You had him on the ropes
This is the best content by the Captain himself of the passing year. It left me in tears of laughter like no other sc2 content. We love you Harstem, thank you for everything, happy holidays! And hope your wife will get her deserved flowers.
Thank you Harstem for showing how to beat a cannonrush easily
😂
As a D1 Zerg who’s been cannon rushed more times than I can count, I was yelling at the screen this entire time for you to just take the damn 3rd!!!! Ahhh!!!!
or a spine rush at hes natural xd
@@foncareth7857 or just some spines in general , or anything but so many garbage roaches and ravagers lol
Surely it’s pretty simple for the Protoss to take down your hatchery if they’re going stalkers, or at least deny all mining. Is it just for production outside of the contain?
Nvm just saw the last game lol. It’s like a macro hatch but better because you get an expansion.
I see "Cannonrush" I click.
It should be... he cannon rushed me 7 times and i lost every time
Oh no. He won the 7th. Maybe 'I donated 120 MMR to Printf'.
All I see is 7 theoretical wins
Her: "He's Prolly cheating on me rn"
Him: **trying to beat Printf**
"hey man can we just do 1 game quickly, i wanna show my viewers how to counter cannonrush with zerg"....... 7 games later xDDD
7 theoretical wins in a row. must be new record!
Well. At least you WON the game of "Tell me you don't know how to respond to a cannon-rush, without Saying you don't know how to respond to a cannon-rush". Decisively
Zero effort in getting damage on the pylons...stopping new cannons, ending unit heal and cutting off his reinforcements. Then building a proxy hatch to do absolutely nothing with it ?
Yeah IDK why he thinks it's a good idea to keep 300 early game minerals tied up in a hatch he KNOWS he's gonna cancel in 30 seconds. Either send the proxy immediately, or take the 3rd, or build a hidden base. So many options and he keeps trying the same thing.
@@JonCrombe if he cancels it immediately then the protoss wont invest more minerals in building cannons there. He's trying to get him to invest more before canceling so protoss loses more minerals.
@@JonCrombe When you getting cannon rushed, you dont know that you are getting cannon rushed, so he simulates it by building a hatchery.
No one beats Harstem 7 times in a row! ggwp, Captain.
"The best way to learn is to bash your head against a wall x4 in a row" pure knowledge, thank you @harstem awesome content
Now I want to see Lambo against printf.
they are different tiers. lambo has like 1.5k more mmr than print he would never lose and those would be 4 minute games.
@@alviworld still want to see it
Sure, here’s a detailed explanation on how to defend against a cannon rush as Zerg in StarCraft 2:
How to Defend Cannon Rush as Zerg:
Scout Early:
Send your Overlord towards the opponent’s natural expansion or the edges of your own main base.
At around the 12 supply mark, send a Drone to scout around your base perimeter to look for any suspicious Probe activity.
Identify the Cannon Rush Quickly:
If you spot a Probe in an unusual location and see Pylons being built, it’s likely a cannon rush.
Look for hidden Pylons around your base or natural expansion.
Pull Drones to Deal with the Probe:
Use 2-3 Drones to chase and kill the Probe to prevent further construction.
Targeting the Probe directly is critical as it stops the rush entirely if there's no backup Probe.
Prioritize Building Cancellations:
If Cannons are being built, focus Drones on canceling Pylons or Cannons that are close to completing but not protected yet.
Avoid losing Drones unnecessarily-only pull what’s needed.
Expand Away from the Rush:
If the cannon rush denies your natural or main, consider taking another base far away (even at your third or fourth location).
Roach Warren Response:
If the rush completes and there are Cannons, drop a Roach Warren and build a few Roaches to push out.
Roaches can outrange Cannons and destroy Pylons.
Spine Crawlers if Needed:
In extreme cases, Spine Crawlers can be used for defense. Use them to push towards Cannons or hold choke points.
Adapt Your Build Order:
If the rush is delayed but persistent, build Queens and Zerglings. Queens have good range and can assist in breaking Pylons.
Focus on speedlings to outmaneuver static defenses or harass the Protoss base.
Macro While Defending:
Don’t overcommit to Drone pulls or defense at the cost of falling far behind in economy. Transition to your normal strategy after neutralizing the threat.
Creep Spread and Vision:
Spread creep around your main and natural to gain better vision. This will make it harder for the Protoss to sneak additional structures.
Harstem, if you’re reading this: We appreciate the content! Hopefully, this advice lines up with what you'd recommend or expect. Cannon rushes may be the bane of ladder games, but there’s nothing better than clutching out a solid defense! 💪
"Insanity means doing the same things over and over again and expecting a different result". Albert Einstein
He never seid thar
@@MrJust2timesyeah but ur mom did
I watched the first game as I was laying down for a nap and fell asleep during the second game. I woke up to you winning, which makes me wonder what you did for the rest of my nap...
When two worlds collide: printf and Harstem
So this was refreshing to see. I often struggle on the ladder that sometimes makes me frustrated (I am in gold, so nowhere near this level), but seeing you handling this frustration gave me hope. :D One day I hit platinum. :D
same here, i'm just a gold player myself, only way i beat them is 12 pool by luck vs 2 hatch then pool lol and if i don't catch it then turtle on one base till break it then 2 or 3 more hatches when possible. Hope we both get plat one day!
Extra macro hatches are always the key to moving up at lower leagues. Especially with the new cost balance. You can support 2 macro hatches (total 3) off 1 base eco Zerg ling production with pool first.
How to deal with cannon rushers as a zerg?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Scout Early: Send your first Overlord to their base and use a Drone to scout your natural expansion. Look for a Forge and suspicious Pylon placement.
Pull Drones: If you spot a Pylon and Forge near your base, pull enough Drones (5-7) to attack the Probe and cancel construction. Focus on the building Cannons and Pylons first, then the Probe.
Build a Spine Crawler: If Cannons are already up, build a Spine Crawler in range to take them out safely. Use Queens and Zerglings to defend while the Spine Crawler does its job.
Expand Elsewhere: If the Cannon rush is overwhelming your natural, expand to another base location and continue your economy. Use Zerglings for counter-pressure.
Zergling Counterattack: Once you hold the rush or relocate, produce Zerglings to pressure their base. They’ll likely have a weak economy.
Adapt Tech: Transition to Roaches, Mutalisks, or a strong economy-focused build depending on their follow-up strategy.
Stay Calm: React quickly and decisively, but don’t panic. Efficient Drone micro and scouting are key to shutting down Cannon rushers.
Harstem: -"cannon rush is perfectly balanced!"
Harstem plays against PrintF: 0_o
Well, yea. Harstem lost because he got outplayed, not because cannon rushes are good.
Definitely a skill issue.
The main problem is you need to have more skill than your opponent to win a canon rush.
That's why so many people struggle with it even if they know how to counter it.
Game 6 was so bad :(, spread your creep, pool energy on the queens, quit wasting minerals on an expand. Harstem your mining far to much gas, you don't need more than 4-5 ravengers, you really should pull off gas after you have them just build more queens and lings or roach.
Maybe he should expand... but in secret.
spred creep then move up sunkens?
5:03 hard to watch you lose all those ravagers
27:50 would a quick second expand make since after killing the last pylon? Especially considering how much he was floating after that fight?
Then he would be in a safer spot to increase his income, and arrange for surrounds to counter printf's counter attack...
This reminds me of Legionnaire from Brood War. He was a mastermind at late game that loved to open with cannon rush just for the *warm up*
in game two, right at the start you had a ravager that went down to like 5% hp. Why not remove it from your control group as if you lost it. make a 3rd queen. now they can spread creep, help you with the push, and every ravager that lives on 5% or less hp can back up and get transfused.
That was heart clenching to watch! That intense micro was epic! Thank you printf for a great series!
found u when u were training with Grubby. Watch the stream and TH-cam vids both. Big fan brother. Much love hope yall had a good holiday.
'Was it just bad micro, you think?" he asks while floating 700 minerals for the past 4 minutes
I was wondering what the point of the base on the other side of the map was -- it mostly didn't seem to be doing anything. Lower worker count + base on your own side of the map seems to have done the trick. One bit of advice from a platinum-level Zerg: When spawning an overlord, ALWAYS ALWAYS decide where you want it to rally when you create it. It would have saved you so much grief in these games if you'd rallied the overlords somewhere safe when spawning it.
You should write GG EZ at the end😂
This just feel like content trolling. Feels like you are throwing every game from the start.
Never seen any kind of zerg loose to any cannon rush in years.
Well, printf is GM so he obviously would win against 95 % of all Zerg players.
Must have been that Stalker build time buff that gave you so much trouble 😉
It helps, I mean two gate production for say four rounds before warpgate, that's 24 seconds taken off in stalker build time. Not crazy, but it is helpful
Love what we get to see of the chat between him and printf between games.
Also, I can't get over the mmr values over the course of the video. Starts at -25, drops to -17 over the course of his losses, to +28 when he finally gets the win.
You got cooked captain
2:31 -- no diddy😬
LOL!!! I’ve never watched an hour long video on TH-cam…! This was so fun, helpful, hilarious, so much! Omg.
spine crawlers?
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
it is nice to see you on my feed again, happy xmas buddy
Might have lost 46 ranks, but gained knowledge and a smile at the end
ngl that guy is insane, he just mastered cheesing with canons and plan b is have insane micro with stalkers
Thats how regression looks like.
12:15 I am a very bad zerg player so take this opinion with salt, but bile on the stalkers is a waste compared to bile pylons? I say this because I know I am bad zerg player and will always choice static bile target over moving ones.
He seems to bile the stalkers only when it's too risky to get in range of the buildings, so at least there's a chance to hit something and not waste the cooldown.
Still, dealing with cannon rush is hard, that's why is so popular and annoying in lower levels
PrintF is such a printFer
Use creep tumors more. It at least lets you deny the unpowered buildings, a tumor's creep range is farther than a canon's attack range, and the extra speed will help with kiting and surrounding his units.
That relief after the hold) priceless!
"And this is how you deal with cannon rush. You lose." XD
anybody ever told u that u got a decent vibrato. good singing voice bro no joke
I bet Harstem is good at a lot of offline stuff. He's got that work life balance patch.
I feel like screaming at the screen watching this. Normally I learn a lot from watching these, but in these matches he’s just trying the same stuff getting owned every time.
Someone has to push that rock up the hill, thanks cap
Man, that first game looked like me losing
Christmas is the time of giving, and Harstem is giving away MMR - how festive indeed!
He outsmarted you like 7 times :D
around 42:00, probably pull out of gas (at least 3 out since you had 6 mining) to get the 2 base mineral saturation faster, then pure speed lings are better vs stalkers
1st: -25. 2nd: -23. 3rd: -21. 4th: -19. 5th: -20. 6th: -17 7th: +28
-125 + 28 = -97
Im kinda new to SC MP, why not just rush pool with zerglings if you 100% know for sure that you gona get cannon rushed?
The point was that he was pretending like he didn't know he will be cannon-rushed. Like in normal game, you get surprised after deploying your natural expanse.
Thanks for making this guide on dealing with cannon rush so realistic. Untill you messaged a top-level zerg progamer and he told you what to do. First 6 games though show what it's like.
I don’t understand why he wouldn’t keep using the ravengers to one shot the cannons and batteries and kite back in that first game. Whittle down the static defense and pick a fight once there mass lings
I dont either but I assume he has a reason, maybe waiting would let the toss get too far ahead resource wise
I assume the Captain will send an IODIS to Lambo after this 😂
Maybe could've maybe gone to lair-tech and get some Lurkers to cover the retreat ramp, dunno.
Game one, "How not to micro ravagers", watching game two now.
Alternate title: “printf swept me in a best of 11, then THIS happened!”
28:35-29:00 true gamer moment
I really enjoyed the videos in the past where printf would hop on a discord call with you and teach how to cannon rush better (I think it was that? Maybe it was how to hold vs a rush better in PvP?). Would have been a nice postmortem here to have a quick chat and ask "Hey what am I doing wrong?", assuming he was cool with it :)
I commented after game 5 or 6, I should have trusted Lambo to give you the details LOL. ggwp
Harstem , why do you don"t 12 POOL if u know hes gonna canon rush?
Games came and went by.. but I had one question only.. why not get the pylons with the ravagers..?
Try Scarlett response, swarm hosts if you already let the cannons finish.
Harstem is confused, he thinks protoss sucks so hard so he keeps trying to pounce on a set-up position with battery, cannon, stalker, exactly what the opponent wants him to do and the proxy hatchery is a terrible response and just a massive waste of resources.
Dude, Watch the whole vid.
I never went beyond silver, but I always thought the antidote for cannon rush was to pull all the drones.
That makes you fall behind immensely.
who woulda know that throwing the unit with the most range into melee range is a bad idea
You should send the overlord over The pylon to spread creep, so he can't make more buildings. It should buy a bit of time
pool first is an approach i didnt see you try
1. Why do you keep rallying your overlords right into the cannons?
2. Why do you not kill the probe?
canon rushing is the single biggest reason my kids quit playing ladder
I don't know what the winning strat for cannon rush is but after seeing the first five games I can say for certain that randomly suiciding 6 ravagers isn't it.
hey printf, how would you like 50 mmr
Crazy micro combat around minute 41
26:22 not gonna lie, if you lose from here, that's your fault for not having speedlings vs blink stalkers with all those ravagers T_T
The lack of creep tumors drives me crazy
Because he is not a Zerg player. I think his Zerg is two leagues lower than his Terran and Protoss
That was great content, thanks chief
Fool me six times, shame on you...
uThermal just says to pull your workers to kill the buildings fast
Are you not allowed to 12 pool?
last time i tried laddering i made it to high gold league with just cannon rush to psi storm
I haven't laughed this hard in a long time
harstem casually ladder match fixing
how to defeat cannon rushes by Harstem "press enter, gg, f10, leave game" 😅