Sorry Danny, I am not wasting money on high priced cables when the regular speaker wire I have sounds just fine. If I had the money, I would buy them for the looks, not the sound.
The inductance of a simple speaker cable is of such a low value that filter attenuation (treble cut ) to the -3db point would I expect be well over 100khz so nothing to worry about.
The answer all these guys have is, well your syatem just isn't good enough to resolve it. Danny basicly told in a recent comment because I'd never listened to music on a REAL system... My amp, dac, speakers alone are $2k, how expensive of a system is required to hear the difference of these cables...lol. I guess these cables are only for people with REAL systems
@@iowaudioreviews That's just bullshit. Turn on your system, max volume, no input signal (playback stopped). Do you hear any noise coming out of your speakers? I don't. I can put my ear right on the tweeter and there's just dead silence until I press play. 130W from amp, 83dB/1m/1W at the speaker. Doesn't matter whether my system is good enough for you or not, THERE IS NO NOISE. The only thing that's audibly susceptible to EMI is the signal cable due to higher impedances on both its ends.
You should go over a sort of good, better, best at different price ranges for cables. I think anyone can agree that less noise in a cable is better, but at a certain extent, having $500 in cables and $100 in speakers probably won't sound as good as $100 in cables and $500 in speakers, so a recommendation as to how much you should have into your system before going for each tier of cables would be helpful. I think a lot of us here are interested in the DIY aspect to get the most bang for the buck and knowing when and what to upgrade could help a lot of us.
Don't go by price, especially with cables. Focus on sound quality. System matching is everything. Its very common to prefer a cheaper cable over an expensive one.
Absolutely. He puts 4 ohm resistor that is the equivalent of 4 THOUSAND feet 10 gauge wire. How is this relevant??? I think this channel might be trolling us for views.
exactly , how many turns of wire are in each coil, straight speaker wires will not behave the same, unless you leave all the wire on the large spool it came on except for a couple of feet on either end to connect to the amp and speaker, and then put both spools on top of each other.
8:50 : Run exact same test by substituting the transformers each for left and right strands of standard (cheap) speaker cables. I suspect you would not be able to hear anything from the tweeter, nor would anything be measurable because the inductive coupling would not result in any output signal being above the noise floor. This is because the inductance of the speaker cables is orders of magnitude lower than the inductance of the inductors used in the experiment most likely. This makes a huge difference when amplifying a .001V (1mV) or so signal by 1000x such as from a moving coil cart by a phono preamp, however a speaker signal does not get re-amplified and the signal level itself is already high compared to the ambient noise being induced. Not a critique, just an observation; love your vids. Cheers.
Nice to hear your input as an engineer on this channel stereopolice. One thing to think about is the broadband noise is feedback through the negative feedback line from the speaker output to the input stage of the amplifier. I think Danny mentioned this in one of the videos. The very high frequency noise could potentially ride on the input signal. Although the signal is not audible it could be plausable that it could be passed as lower frequency noise into the input signal changing the original signal. There are low pass filters inside amps to filter out RF, so this may be a mute point.
@@zulumax1 right on brother, the type of noise you refer to is usually eliminated by the resistor in parallel with the inductor in series with the output of most Class A B amplifiers and other amplifiers you will see it on most schematics and that's why it's actually there, for stability because of the negative feedback circuit and the poles.
You would get capacitive coupling, but it would be in the pico farads and the impedance would be way too high to have any output into a low impedance circuit at either end, source or load, amp or speaker. Now the high current signal from the amplifier could induce a bucking current through the adjacent conductor, that is more likely to have an effect. I just retired from a company that my job was building cables and wiring harnesses for aircraft. We built many with twisted multi-conductor sets for low weight and noise reduction. What he says is true, but not relevant to what is being heard, in my opinion.
I' m agreeing with David Long about this video. Many of us understand emf interference in regards to inductors as well as parallel conductors and do not dispute what you are saying. However, the issue is the matter of the audible and measurable effects of emi or rfi for the lengths of speaker wire in a typical home environment in which the amp to speaker conductor isn't running parallel to a high voltage and current carrying cable or an object putting out more than 1 watt of rf. One thing for sure is that the capacitance is increased with woven, braided, or twisted pair which means at certain lengths they act as an ac frequency filter as well as one that rejects interference. Which is a shame when it comes to attempting to connect a phono cartridge to a phono preamp because everything you are talking about becomes extremely important because the signal output from a phono cartridge is at the same level of emi and rfi of a typical home environment. There is no doubt that the speaker cable you are selling is great at rejecting interference and I wish a similar construction could be used as phono interconnects without the increased capacitance being a problem. With all that said I am not rejecting the possibility that speaker cable differences can be heard. However, when it comes to cost I think for most people the extra expense would be of more use when spent on better drivers, baffle design, or crossover components.
I think that David Long missed the point. It's super simple, and you don't need a full-range moving audio sample and speaker wire switch box to understand. In fact, this will confuse us. That's why he used a white noise tone and the simple four orientations to examine. Inductance coupling is all about wire orientation. Nothing more. This is the principle that most of us missed I fear. I've explained it more in my reply to Mr. Long.
Here's an analogy of measuring the wrong thing: It's like dipping a paper cup into the Atlantic Ocean in Nantucket, inspecting the cup of seawater, and proclaiming, "There are no sharks in the ocean, because I looked and found nothing."
Engineers can do a lot of measurements that can explain differences in sound but they are not part of the simplistic (and irrelevant measurements as far as EMI/RFI is concerned) required by the FTC Amplifier Rule, which is largely under enforced and ignored anyway. Scientifically performed and valid subjective testing is too expensive to do on a regular basis, which leaves the door open for unscientific demonstrations to "prove" that cables make a difference.
@@StewartMarkley a _good_ engineer, however, can do some practical measurements that _do_ make sense. To be really simplistic. Imagine that your speakers are 4 ohms and that we ignore the _actual_ impedance as a complex function of frequency.[1] In the ideal case, a modern amplifier is a voltage source. This means "zero" impedance and a high capacity of delivering current to keep the voltage stable even if the impedance of the load (speaker) drops to undesired lows. This voltage source is what modern speakers are designed for. If your cable is 2 ohms, the speaker does not see a voltage source, but instead one with 2 ohms in series. BAD. It means that the cable will become warm, as it eats at least a third of the power. Warmth increases its impedance, making the situation worse. As long as your impedance is less than, say, a hundred times that of your speaker, nothing can go wrong. Parasitic capacity does not play a role, because the whole exposed circuit is connected to a voltage source with almost zero impedance.[2] If the cable somehow manages to have a high inductance, this can be bad. However, you probably would have to wind it around something on purpose to make this a practical problem. A good engineer knows all this. Use a good combination of thickness and length and it will be okay. If a cable has "sound" it is an inaccurate cable. If you _like_ that inaccurate sound: go buy the cable. Many people like the "warmth" of tube amplifiers: go for it! ____ [1] I use impedance consistently, as "resistance" is only the non-complex part of impedance. A resistor with a capacitor in parallel is a circuit with a complex impedance that changes frequency response and phase. A speaker with a crossover and two drivers is a hellishly complex impedance. The goal of an amplifier is to keep the voltage across the speaker terminals an enlarged copy of the input, _no matter what._ [2] The voltage source is not ideal, of course. The damping factor is probably guaranteed for 20-20kHz, however above that it could be much lower. In that case, parasitic capacity and induction might even help to mitigate "reception" of radio frequencies.
@@TheEmmef As an audio and RF engineer with 50 years of experience in those fields, I am quite aware of the technical issues of amplifiers, cables, and speakers. My point here was to point out that while measurements can indeed explain the differences in sound, the kind of measurements that are needed are not something that is done or at least provided by the industry. Also, the measurements defined by the FTC Amplifier Rule do not encompass those measurements, and that the FTC does not even enforce the current rule anyway. Therefore there are no measurements done and specs provided to help inform the customers that might even care about this anyway.
Just to make sure we are all on the same page: The term "cable" being referred to here is the "wire" which connects the amplifier speaker outputs to the speaker, not an RCA interconnect. Seems to be a lot of confusion here on terms used. Bought my first "Kimber Cable" 8 conductor black/brown speaker "wire" in 1983, still have it. They have actually been around for a long long time. I always assumed it was the expanding and collapsing magnetic field surrounding a speaker wire caused by the ac music signal traveling through the wire that effected the sound. Low impedance circuit there is going to be a lot of current, any current caused by RF would be squashed, just not strong enough field to produce current. Not saying it doesn't sound different, I am saying the conclusion is flawed.
At 8:07 the result with poles 90° opposed was "almost non-existent". Here you indicate what would happen if the same test were done using a straight run of basic speaker wire: a completely non-existent (or at least inaudible) change in the measured output.
Well, obviously. More expensive ALWAYS means tighter bass, clearer treble, lower noise floor, more detail and all that stuff... There are no exceptions.
Of course it sounds better, mate. Your system sounds horrible! But with this new $1000000 cable, everything opens up! The sound stage opens, the re is detail in the highs, angels come through the speakers and caress your ears...
Lets do a simple test. Any amplifier fed with a 10khz square wave at a nominal 5 watts output. A none inductive load resistor. Scope across the load. Test 1 connect the two via 10 feet of normal speaker cable, look at the output. Test 2 same set up but use the super wonderful cable. See which one makes the amplifier ring most?
Everything was fine until you started to talk about cables. No one is questioning mutual inductance between coils with many windings aligned in these different ways, but you cannot just infer from there.
Well, if you can infer that "seventies-tuner-FM-signal-strength of a cable used as antenna (while just hanging over your messy desk" says _everything_ about how that cable "sounds", this is nothing!
@@zulumax1 Well, if GR-research makes a claim that it does, he should at least follow that up with research that backs his thesis. He did not. From my background in physics, the situation of a one-ended, open-ended connection of a cable to the antenna-input of a FM receiver and what that receiver sees, has _nothing_ to do with an audio interconnect that uses both wires (signal and ground) and emanates from a very low impedance output stage.
@@TheEmmef There are follow up videos, and he keeps claiming to have proof, but proof of what? Keeps going down the same rabbit hole. There is more EMI broadband noise coming in through the power cord that could ever be brought into a stereo by a speaker cord wicking noise into the more sensitive high impedance high gain circuits inside which can alter the sound. Some folks use shorting RCA plugs on the unused inputs of their gear. Now that I can understand.
You have to address the following: 1. The fact people are not doing blind tests, and the fact that not doing so absolutely messes up the science of your test. In your own words, you're measuring the wrong thing. 2. The magnitude of everyday EMI/RFI on the wire acting as an antenna, and what that is relative to the signal on the wire. SNR matters. 3. The simplicity of a simple test of listening to a blank signal on a system and seeing if you can tell whether the system is on or off. Is there any EMI/RFI to hear? Remember to do this test blind.
I've been generous and watched all the videos to date in the series. What you have done is proven that this _is_ a difference. No one debates this. What is debated is whether this matters in an audible way that passes a simple blind (or double blind if you're diligent) test.
I give up, I am selling everything. None of the 20hz to 20khz components I own are built with RF shielding, the speaker terminal, the crossover, the power supplies, the circuit boards etc., I have been listening to distorted music disguising itself as pleasing. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. BTW do you shield your crossovers from RFI? Because it will penetrate the wooden speaker box.
Not everyone has hearing good enough to make out the more subtle differences that cables and shielding etc can bring. Count yourself lucky, it will work out much cheaper for you.
@@garywright8137 another factor is that not every system will resolve the differences that cables make. Just as poor cables can mask subtle differences in the music, poor components can mask subtle differences made by the cables.
Dont give up. This is a great hobby. Follow the undeniable facts. Ritchie is conflicted. He doesn't know if he believes in science or not.. His speaker designs/reviews/ and crossover upgrades are solid.. Discard the rest about his "magic" components..
Another fun fact: If engineers can make plain old 2 sided PCB's that work into the 100's of Megahertz range with low amounts of received/transmitted EMI then a loudspeaker system can be competently designed to work in the 4 to 8 ohm range @ up to 20Khz! 😉🤣🤣🤣
I don't normally do this, but I just had to watch this again and wrap my head around it. And I also am not normally derisive of anyone, but I think I figured it out: Danny knows just enough to be stupid. I don't like saying that as we all have our limits, but I think its true. The experiment thus presented is valid. The coils will act as an air cored transformer with varying degrees of efficiency when put next to each other due to mutual coupling of their magnetic fields. Indeed audio transformers do just that via magnetic coupling and provide the useful property of impedance transformation. However, unravel each coil until the magnet wire is straight, and lay it next to another unraveled coil, and the mutual magnetic coupling will be infinitesimal at audio frequencies. Like its not even the same thing. What are we actually trying to show? Its like saying: "Here I can prove string theory. Watch me play checkers. See, its completely true!" The test as absolutely nothing to do with speaker wires.
@@dannyrichie9743 Here's an actual video on the topic, with demonstrations: th-cam.com/video/TVCmPrDthlE/w-d-xo.html I personally would have used a power cord connected to equipment since the effect would be more dramatic once there is sizeable current flowing, but its still valid. You are absolutely correct that magnetic fields can couple into speaker wire, but there's the important concept of _node impedance_ in electronics. Magnetic coupling will only be an issue near power line frequencies and their harmonics. You can calculate the relative magnitudes by the intrinsic impedance of an amplifier output, which is only milliohms at low frequencies. Furthermore, the amplifier has ENORMOUS loop gain at low frequencies if its a linear one. Therefore anything that does make it thru, will be squashed into oblivion by feedback. The only place you will experience intense interference on the speaker side is at high RF where the amplifier presents a high output impedance. This is especially a problem with the speakers themselves since they just have single hookup wire in them to tie the drivers together, and they make great antennas at RF. Effect is easily demonstrated by leaving a cellphone next to a speaker. Often you will hear a clicking sound in the speakers. The place where what you say is absolutely an issue, is at the input of the amplifier, where impedances can approach 500kΩ, and there's not much there to resist anything that couples in.
Danny, you forgot to "educate" everyone that an inductor is just a piece of wire that has been wound into a looping structure (usually a round coil). The key difference between speaker wire (and any shielding) is that inductor wire is insulated on its ENTIRE LENGTH (except the very ends where you connect the leads). This insulation is the "red" coating that you see on your inductors in the video. Whereas speaker wire, and any shield surround speaker wire is made out of bare-wire that is not insulated so that it can conduct electrons as best as possible (which is the speaker wire and any shieldings job). Comparing an inductor and the physics of its operation to a bulk conductor in open air is very different. Your demo about coupling in inductors is one thing, but then switching horses to speaker wire acting the same way is very misleading. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations can show the way.
@Marten Dekker @Marten Dekker Yeah, this logic jump is amazing. A long-wire layed out flat, like a typical speaker cable has virtually no inductance effects...like infinitesimal. Rather the capacitance between it and any parallel conductor (like in lampcord speaker wire) would be the more dominating effect, and arguably that capacitance effect is negligent and immaterial to the end-result. But yeah, comparing a inductor which is made out very tiny insulated wire, all wound up...to a big gauge multi-strand speaker cable (with or without shielding) that is laid out mostly flat is apples to oranges headscratcher for any electrical engineer. . As for cross-overs...well, there is some "art of the compromise" I feel for speaker designers to get a good final result...but these videos aren't discussing that topic at all...rather somehow comparing the magnetic coupling w/ inductors to speaker wire, which if anything is capacitively coupled. Need to go back to basics and explain to people what's actually going on /w physics....none of this has to do with speaker wire's main job is to push energy to the speakers over a distance. People can solve this concern buy just buying active speakers that are becoming more popular. Then the distance of the internal wiring to the drivers is super small haha. Expect Danny would probably like to examine and upgrade that ~1 ft of wire inside the cabinet though :)
You have a gentle way of pointing out the false logic here. I wish I had your tact. It’s hard though when you’ve heard this garbage recycled over and over. Why can’t a guy just stick to marketing speakers that can sound nice? A grandiose ego perhaps?
I regret not watching this earlier, because I'm laughing so hard! Reminded me about the experiments made in primary school. This sophism is so wrong that I cannot even describe it. So just because there are magnetic fields that might interact with each other, then a cable changes the sound.
All jokes aside - yes there is a difference between a crap wire and a good cable. Problem is that a good cable is relatively cheap to produce, but Audophool companies are promoting snake oil to get the suckers in. If you bought a $23 000 system, then yes - I understand that you would want a several hundred dollar set of cables. I mean, it'll look prettier compared to a $20 generic cable. But don't lie to yourself - it is just a dress up. And this guy once said in a video that he used cryogenically frozen wooden cable stands (wow!) and he heard a difference. Just no comment there.
What about putting a ferrite ring over parallel-pair or twisted-pair speaker cable? It could be cheaper. Since there are many different ferrites, we can choose one that does not affect audio frequency.
Thank you for the advice. Because of the placement of my equipment i had about 1m length where the speaker cables were touching each other. I rearranged the layout to maximise the distance and also kept away from mains cables was surprised how much better the bass reproduction became.
Standard audio measurements would explain, The only thing wire can effect is overall volume level and frequency response due to its resistance, capacitance and inductance.
I had installing problems with a coil and capasitor in my speaker filter a big coil 2,7mh next to a 5,6uf cap practaly cap againsed the coil wires. So like you have tested with coil to coil. So I have placed a sheet of Mu metal between those. This is very well hearable woouw the highs are more loose standing. Differance is not tiny I just set power to my cold tubeamp and right away noticeable. Thanks I had never come to install a little sheet of 0,004" thick ( 0,1mm) i had some left over Mu metal for sheelding a turntable motor againsed hum. Cool stuff this topics and speakers cables react the same way like you said.
for a guy whose entire business model is making speakers sound better and showing us the graphs, it's hilarious that you can't show a graph of cables sounding better. Go do an A/B/X blind test and show us the results. Different tracks, different days, one of your cables and one of a $50 dollar pair of good quality 12 gauge twisted teflon coated Monoprice cable.
@@dannyrichie9743 what I'm not hearing is noise, you can't manufacture a problem that doesn't exist and then claim to magically fix it by buying expensive speaker cable. A/B/X test and show us those results. You know, the same way you show us the results of every crossover you improve? Consistency.
Labs that I am aware of consider oscilloscope measurements to be objective science. These instruments are not subject to psychological bias or Mr. Wizard Mumbo Jumbo.
@Douglas Blake Another BIG hint: Identical electrical signals fed into a particular speaker will produce identical sound that leaves the vibrating cones of that speaker.
I think the issue is copper wire from Rat Shack or off the loom at Lowe's isn't going to sound HORRIBLE to most people, heck not even to me. It's actually fairly hard to get HORRIBLE audio nowadays, but there is MUCH BETTER quality audio experiences to be had, if you know how to set your room up, and pick the right equipment. I recently had to grab some 14ga copper wire from Lowes to use an amp that I hadn't touched in a while and did not have banana plugs on it. The sound was fine, deep and wide soundstage, instrument decay was there, dynamics were as expected, blah blah blah, it sounded fine. I changed amplification and saw improvements across the board, nothing glaringly wrong with the presentation, just an improvement over the previous amplifier (most notable was the control over the woofers so bass was deeper and tighter). Now with the new amp in place I could use my banana plugs again, so in went the Mogami cables which are not terribly expensive, maybe $225 or so for the banana terminated 10 foot pair. I wasn't expecting much at all, but what I got was a bit more of the top end and overall clarity. In general terms the Lowes cable sounded a tad duller to a degree. I don't have a problem with etch or brightness in my system, the sound was a tad livelier. Kind of appropriate I think for the difference in cost. Nothing magical or monumental but a tad better. If I hadn't swapped it out, I doubt I'd ever consider that the sound was lacking. I wasn't looking for it, I just noticed it. I'm not in the "good enough" crowd in the sense that I'll go bargain basement on things, I like well constructed devices and materials, so a couple hundred for good speaker cable from a reputable brand made sense, and in the end it actually made a slight DIFFERENCE. There's a crowd that swears by interconnects and speaker cables made from twisted UTP ethernet cable. I just haven't had the time (I've got plenty of the stuff on a spool) to try that out, but apparently it sounds good. Danny's implementation seems to be along the same lines but taken to another level. Personally I need to try it out myself, the problem is that I have the room arranged in a way that those snakes would become a trip hazard. Time to finish up some work so I can get some seat time with my rig.
High (speaker) level signal across UTP cable is a stupid idea. It might make the sound different, but definitely won't make it more true to the source (therefore objectively better). You want low resistance and UTP is just not that, because it's designed for a completely different purpose.
PLEASE HELP me understand why you use thick and often shielded speaker cables right to the speaker and then inside the speaker, near the magnetic coils and so on, do you use thin unshielded cables? :-)
The phone companies knew this. That's why we have CAT5 and CAT6e cables for networking. It shields the wire, not making it a filter. A filter implies that it will still be an antenna.
12:05 "Have we learned anything yet?" Oh there is so much to unpack here. You pretend that people think cables don't matter. You claim that you know which cables sound better. You are using coils which are not remotely comparable to straight wires. Seriously, not even close. Your woven cable *still* just has a lot of parallel wires that *will* still induce on eachother. And ofcourse; you clai to be able to hear the interference of self-induction in a cable that is only running a few amps max. No, you cannot. Forget it. just forget it. Does your cable sound different? I'm sure it does! Does that have anything to do with the principles you tlked about? I seriously doubt it. Does it sound better? That is 100% up to you. Can you charge lots of money for your cables? Ofcourse! The are always people who know less about how low-frequency electricity works than you so you can always find people that you can convince with an irrelevant experiment on a youtube video. hell, I've had people offer me stickers to stick on the side of my speaker cabinets to make it sound better. Rocks to put on top of the transformer to "balance it out". And yes, they all claimed to know exactly how it worked and that it made things sound better. Don't talk about science if you're not going to show the science. Show that your cable makes an AUDIBLE difference in a double-blind test with a hundred people and have them all agree that your cable sounds better. THAT is science.
Actually, real science would be to perform a null test against other way cheaper cables of the same length, and when the sound cancels out and leaves only silence, understand that they won't make a difference to the sound
There is a guy on TH-cam who does a blind test and gets it right. Also, you admit cables do affect the sound. So to what do you ascribe the differences to?
It would be awesome for this time spent on "cables" to be spent on demos of the complete catalog you offer. Graphs etc prove parts and placement for sure, but ears are anecdotal transducers. To each their own.
@@dannyrichie9743 I hope you are monetizing this series, because you've drawn out all of the ASmiR folks like flies to shit. They are trolling you to drive traffic to The Science Channel. Let's not encourage them.
I have been using my ears since the 80's when I buy cables, never thought about what you show us. Thank you for the insight and the enlightenment of speaker cables, Danny.
What if the wires are insulated? I have made braided non braided. Could not hear a darn bit of difference. What about the cables in the speaker cabinet? Those should be braided also? Tried both. No difference...so back to my piont. If the wires are insulated does that not reject re re interference? Greatt video on showing how coil orientation matters
I was 15 knowing nothing about Science of cables. But I could hear a tone in my speakers that was not part of the music. Having little money at that age and all ready discovered different wires single or multiple strands copper or steel or close or separated using my father’s and grandfather scrap wires in the garage using my ears 👂 and the power meter on the radio signal strength meter I found the best wires for the AM & FM Signal. I had Old used speakers from a very old system paper cone speakers. At the time at that age I knew nothing about speaker efficiency that those used old speakers came from a system in an era where speakers had to be very efficient to work on low powered amps. So my speakers were naturally super sensitive to any kind of electrical input and you can hear it with your ears even though they were salvaged from an old system decades earlier and thrown into a big open box that I made as a young teenager with no knowledge of crossovers or speaker enclosure design. So when I noticed the tone not part of the music playing through my speakers when I moved my wires around in the back of the system I finally figured out it was coming from and into the speaker wires being close to other wires or even the aluminum window frame of the window. That’s when I went back down to the garage to get my grandfathers and my fathers different types of wires and started switching out wires until the noise went away and that’s when I discovered I can hear the difference in musical instruments by switching wires types and materials. But I was a kid with the hearing ability to hear a TV turn on with no sound on , just electronics high-pitched tone while walking in the street through the walls or windows of houses as I’m walking outside. Can hear a wristwatch ticking stuffed inside a rolled up sock hidden underneath the clothes in a dresser drawer across the room. Can hear bugs walking. I definitely can hear the difference that the materials and make up of wires on music to make. But now at 56 and have a slight case of tinnitus years of working with loud IMPAC hammers and wrenches in a mechanic shop my hearing starts rolling out at 12,000 Hz and totally deaf after 15,000 Hz. But surprisingly in extreme cases I can still hear the difference on really high and very resolving systems cables still make a difference with my bad hearing. In the soundstage and the depth and the resolving revealing of details within the frequency band I can still hear. But on a big box store high volume cheap system AV receivers under $2000 system I really can no longer hear any difference because the system does not have the ability to magnify the difference. Some people are lucky they were born without the ability to hear tone difference in here fine details in sound they’re lucky because they don’t have to spend any money on good speakers they don’t have to spend any money on cables or high and systems because they don’t even possess the ability to hear the difference they should consider themselves lucky at not having to spend ungodly amount hour of time and money because they’re basically Deaf to find tones. The science a 15 year old can even figure out and hear
Old TVs would always bug me as a child, high pitched sound they made drove me nuts. It was nkce when flat screen came along. I have an above average system and have made many different types of speaker cables and never hear any repeatable difference that could be proven with blind tests. If it really is the case these cables are only the 1% I guess.
I remember those days.. when the tv was on, I could hear everyone in the house moving through doorways, hallways, and in front of the TV, etc because that high pitched sound of the tv changes whenever people move around
@@maxlee6676 exactly, the same as a bat 🦇 uses sound to locate objects by the way it reflects. Humans do the same thing. But some people can not hear 👂 it or if they do their brains have not been programmed in train to pick it up and noticed a difference. Exactly the same some people can hear the difference of cables make when switched on speaker and some people cannot. Some people can hear the difference between electrolytic capacitors and thin film capacitors and some people cannot. Some people are colorblind and some people are not. Some people can run their finger over a bill and can tell if it’s a $10 bill or a one dollar bill and some people cannot The people who have no ability to hear the differences in find music should consider herself lucky they will save a lot of money because they just need a $20 a.m. radio call that good as gold sound to them. Instead they go around claiming anything beyond that nobody can hear the difference because they have no ability to sense of hearing. As if I was born color blind and I went around claiming to all the people who see color they are all liars and there is no difference they’re making it up placebo effect in their head that the color red and blue exist. Flat Earthers
@@coldfinger459sub0 I have been on a panel of listeners on blind tests. One cable changed, recording replayed, and everyone on the panel heard the same change at the same time and said "woah". There was a big difference and the expensive cable lost this round. Not placebo when 6 people here the same change. When I was younger I would walk into jewelry stores and those ultasonic motion detectors would drop me to my knees. People would say "You are not supposed to hear that, it is above the range of human hearing". A gift or a curse, one wonders....
@@zulumax1 I have to25 foot long speaker cables that I bought from RadioShack when I was about 15 years old. They were lost for decades and re-found in my mom’s basement several years ago the rubber plastic vinyl that was clear is now semi translucent and was very sticky and Gummy deteriorating but I cleaned it off with alcohol to get rid of that stickiness. The copper that you can clearly see inside has turned all green and flaky and corroded. I clean the ends and used it as an A.B. test just for that very reason believe it or not expensive does not mean better , you are correct. Nobody can ever replicate or reproduce that green corroded flaky oxidized copper , insulating deterioration RadioShack 10 gauge speaker wire is priceless. That is 41 years old
Here's the thing... If RF were a problem in speaker cables, then you would want to couple the noise into both conductors to get the highest common mode coupling levels possible. But with your cross hatched cables, there would be a higher tendency not to couple the 'noise' evenly into both conductors, the way you would with a field next to some twin lead. You know, common mode rejection, really low load impedance, your chasing ghosts here. For your commercial installation example, EMI coupled from the speaker cable and through the amplifier. Yes, stuff like that can occur, but the problem can be addressed more easily with a full understanding of the problem and not by placing false blame on the problem.
Well if RF is not a problem, then what is all the fuss over? Are we creating an issue which has no merit and perceiving a problem that needs solving, which is a non issue? This is what I call snake oil, or magic elixir. Ignorance is a great sales tool to the salesperson with just a little bit of knowledge. Oldest trick in the book, that is why we need something to measure or test. If it sounds different and tests the same, we are measuring the wrong thing.
@@zulumax1 Yes, in this case, snake oil and GR Research will be dismissive and call me a flat earther. All of these things have to be tested blind with better than 80% correct results. Decades ago, I did a blind test of Belden rubber jacketed industrial appliance cable to my brother's elite audiophile cable that was comprised of several flat cables made up of twisted pairs. We did one channel driven and a switchbox that alternated the cables. Lengths were about the same. it was a dead heat. There was no 'one is better than the other'.
Love your work Danny, you could talk to me all day about spectral decay and polly caps but my brain will not allow me to believe this speaker wire stuff.
If speaker wires made a huge difference, it would be on display at Best Buy. You can hear different speakers and look at different TV's, but for some reason they never have the same speakers set up with different cables so you can hear the difference. Maybe Monster Cable just doesn't have the marketing budget.
@@dannyrichie9743 So the difference between a $1 cable and a cable 20 times as expensive is so small that you won't be able to tell in the store? If you told me that $100 speakers and $2,000 speakers could only be identified in specific situations, then I would buy the $100 speakers.
Your channel its great. You open my eyes and teach me so much. Thank you for sharing teory and know how. You have made a huge contribution to my audio world. Salute you from Argentina!
So to actually have this effect in practice, you will need a very, very powerful audio amplifier[1] that powers a coil and a silent speaker.[2][ (or you would hear that speaker). This coil has to end up somehow on top of you audio cable.[3] *Now why would you do that?* [1] Your audio cable has less windings than the coil that was connected to the tweeter. Probably one versus hundreds. This means that a much higher magnetic field is necessary for the same effect. Now you are already using a full power amplifier signal in the first coil here. So you need a much bigger coil and a much bigger amplifier to have the same effect on a cable of 1mm2 or thicker. [2] If that other speaker with other music or noise is not silent, you would hear that speaker instead of your tweeter in this experiment [3] The transfer diminishes _at least_ with the square of the distance
@@dannyrichie9743 Again, the situation is different than the average home situation. In a venue, an old-style cut-off dimmer - the only option in the seventies and if you're low on budget - gives _a lot of interference._ Microphones are very sensitive for this and cables at line signal levels. You can easily single out mixers with bad output stages (not or not actually balanced) that are more sensitive for this interference if your multi-cable runs together with the dimmer cable for 10 meters. But this is all on signal level with relatively high impedance. A signal out is often a few to hundreds of ohms, which indeed causes it to be sensitive for parasitic capacity (for instance by shielding or putting it in a metal gutter) and reception of external signals. Using good balanced cables helps, but does not fix everything. However, I have _never_ experienced this problem with _speakers._ The impedances involved are simply too low and the power levels too high when compared to the interference. Naturally, I assume we are using modern voltage-source amplifiers and that we're using reasonable speaker cable (not shielded, just thick enough). I guess a valve amplifier with a relatively high output impedance might suffer from the interference. So again: what situation are you describing. If your listening room is a circus of light with old-style dimmers and old-style amplifiers and speakers and you keep al wires close together: YES, you have a problem. But why would you? As to the "sounding" of the cables: if two cables are perfect they should sound exactly the same. In repeated, double-blind tested circumstances. "Nor I tried this new cable" does not even come close. Of course, if you convince yourself this 100$/m cable sounds better: go for it. It _will_ sound better, because you expect it to sound better, because that is the way our brains work. And that is fine. You make someone a living and enjoy yourself. That is absolutely okay. Just stop pretending it is "science" or "truth".
@@TheEmmef I've had lots of people come over with the expectation and belief that all speaker cables sound the same only to have their belief systems completely flipped within a few seconds of listening. And the real truth is that the cables do indeed sound different, and some distinctly better than others.
@@dannyrichie9743 it can be that cables sound different, and you find one sounding better than another. However, if two perfect cables sound different, at least one of them is _not_ perfect. See below why. If you hook up two pretty decent cables: you won't notice if you really setup a good comparison. See below why. Does it matter? Hell no. If you find one cable sound "better" than another, at least one of them is imperfect. _Choose the one you like._ Apparently there are a lot of _really bad_ cables out there if you can hear the difference. That tells you something about the state of "high-end" audio. *Why perfect cables all sound the same* An ideal amplifier behaves as a voltage source that has _zero impedance,_ call it resistance if you like. Speakers are designed for a voltage source. To meet their design criteria, the speaker terminals should ideally be connected directly to the amplifier terminals, _as if there was no cable._ Naturally, no cable is impractical in many ways. So we use cables. It would be ideal if the cable behaves _as if it was not there._ Because then it does not change the sound in any way. Now, a second, different but also perfect cable, also does not change the sound. _The result is that two perfect cables sound _exactly the same._ It also means that if one cable sounds different than another: _at least one of them is not perfect._ You can debate which cable sounds "better", but that is subjective. Tube amplifiers sound "better" because the inaccuracy they introduce (from the back of my head: second-harmonic distortion) sounds "warm" in a beautiful way. They are by no means perfect, but definitely likeable! *How the human mind plays around with hearing* And you underestimate the effects your mind has on hearing, for examples expectations, what happened before or the weather. It really matters. However, if you perform a double-blind testing repetitively and in a relatively small amount of time, you will not find a difference with two different, but very good cables. No one does that, however, as such a setup requires quite some expertise. And experts that know how to do such things, know that if the impedance of the cable is, say, a factor of hundred lower than the speaker impedance: you won't need to do the experiment. Thick cables, not too close together and not too long helps. And from my experience in PA I know that those cable won't be picking up audible interference from even old dimmers.
You basically showed how a transformer works and that cable geometry affects magnetic field direction. Nobody winds their speaker cables into coils designed to create a magnetic field. This doesn’t explain why you need to buy 1000s of dollars of speaker cable. By the way, an oscilloscope is an observation and is not equivalent to licking a wire. You are observing the real signal in a visual manner.
Yes it’s very dramatic! I think the reason people make videos showing these cable affects is to sell thousands of dollars worth of cables. I guess you can apply this knowledge to any cables?
Truly demonstrated how a trafo.. works.....😉😉😉IF THAT coil was done with real speaker cable/ power cable... 🙄🙄🙄🙄 no transformer action would be seen😂😂😂
Ok,I got some information about inductors and the parts he used,yet I just never got anything about interconnects and what they do to MUSIC.For one thing,the average person does not take resources and set up a room to sit in one place,and listen to a few genres of recordings.People who have a life,have things to do,and unless you live alone,with no children,no spouse,your spaces have been allocated for other things.Next,we have to take into account the music sources,our power sources,and our overall budgets. I listen sometimes,I spin vinyl,I play CDs,I have specialty vinyl,and I have live instruments.Currently,I use my computers a LOT of hear music,because it's just not vital to turn on a whole sound system,to listen to TH-cam music.Add to that,MOST of the world listens to compressed formats,some use BEATS headphones and others like them,some use earbuds and smartphones/tablets.I went from studio monitors and my second set,and now I listen on computers and my soundbar connected to my 'smart' TV.My point is that in your house,you run things,and if it works for you,sounds better to you,to have Krell,Moon,Dalquist,MaIntosh,Sony.Realistic,Legacy,$400 inteconnects,$4000 speaker cables,then it is the best,that you care about. I used to attend clubs and have spun in clubs,and I have NEVER heard anyone complain about the strings on a bass,the speaker wires from one system to another,nor have anything else subjective.I think we know can agree on if a system sucks,sounding like mud,rumbling,buzzing,and annoying our ears.Now from this content though,I am still not sure what that experiment has to do about the difference between my Vampire Wires,and the custom Red cables I got near my house many years ago.I still do not know why my Mogami sounds a bit better than a Hosa,connected to my instruments.Last but not least,I live on Planet Earth, so I dare anyone to debate with me about some damn cables they are NOT paying for...Good luck with that...
Many amplifier designs have bridged outputs, so the speaker wires have a balanced signal. Any induced interference is likely to cancel. And if interference does cause a problem, the voltage running through speakers will be magnitudes higher. The lower level-input cables are where you want to spend time and money to reduce interference since the signal amplitudes are lower. I don’t think we need to reinvent speaker wire.
I believe that cables nowadays are pretty good even if you buy cheap speaker cable. You should have pretty good speakers before there is any point in spending a lot of money on cables. if you do not have good sound then it is not just a matter of changing the cord and then you have good sound. It is m uch else that has a much greater impact on the sound than speaker cables!
@@edgar9651 Whats being demonstrated here is common crossover knowledge. It gets gets Danny point across... but speaker wire doesn't have such extreme coupling issues as two inductors in close proximity. Could easily be solved by pulling your zip cord apart so the conductors aren't in close parallel. Or just make speaker wire out of ethernet, much cheaper per foot.
@@iowaudioreviews Neither of those actions will improve the performance on the whole. The gauge and resulting conductance of ethernet wire is too low, though it could work well in some very low-current systems. Now, separating the conductors in lamp cord greatly increases inductance, greatly lowering high frequency response, and also by geometry greatly reduces both EM and RF common mode noise rejection. If you want to see how cheap wire can be well constructed for high currents, look at the ~$2/ft Wireworld cross section. Braiding, especially about central tube, is a really good method. Shunyata expands on that advantage with additional conductors in their fanciest cables. Now, one thing Danny doesn't mention here is how strand-to-strand conductance creates multiple modes of electron flow. That is mostly solved with correct counter-rotation of twisted, stranded conductor bundles. (P.S. Blue Jeans cables have this WRONG.) Hopefully he will address that and the obvious advantage of very low external B fields of ribbon inductors. The great Alex Gibson of FMS cables decades ago said to me: "Cables are 95% geometry and 5% materials."
I've used SVHS cable for Audio in the past which has two individual shielded signal wires. It works great but is fiddly and delicate to attach RCA connectors
Because neither of those two things will show the claimed differences. When you have to dance around with inductors and AM Tuners to laughably attempt to sell people speaker wire kits, you've already lost.
Million dollar question......don't the cables of the drivers of the line arays going to the crossovers pick RF , electromagnetic waves etc.....why do u use just normal simple thin gauge cables and u don't use these?
It's up to you... Sure hard working people change everything with different solution & combination for each speakers. Only u set where to stop the work.
It's not about wire thickness - it's about wire proximity to other wires which influences inductance coupling. He's teaching us all about orientation of wire pairs (or 12 pairs in the case of the 8 gauge wire) that are right next to each other. Remember, on the floor and behind the audio rack there are all kinds of wires in close proximity to each other, so this filtering is essential to the highest Fidelity because the branding is the key. This is where most of the RMI & EMI's will be filtered out. His crossover designs, as we've seen, also account for that... And then, within the speaker cabinet, there are just a few single wires that aren't really next to any other wire, so inductance coupling should not be a problem there as well. At least, this is what I've learned from Danny. Corrections or confirmation anyone?
@@nickburak7518 No. Speaker cable is non-insulated, so it like a long piece of shorted metal...each individual strand can freely conduct to any other individual strand in speaker wire. This is it's job, to deliver power. An inductor like shown in the video is constructed totally different, it is a big coil of tiny --insulated wire--...because of it's construction and use of insulation on the wire it's inductance is very very high (that's why it's called an inductor haha). In a speaker wire laid out mostly flat, there is virtually no inductance...rather capacitance with any parallel conductors in the primary effect and that also is pretty infinitesimal in lamp-cord style speaker wires.
@@PhuckHue2 Yep. I got my degree in electronics and most of this is an anxiety disorder causing people to perceive differences that absolutely don't exist. I've seen a 3 dollar hosa cable put on an oscope and it was dead flat from 0-200khz. There is just nothing a cable can do to contribute to the frequency response until we start talking about 1000 meters of it or something like that. That isn't the same though as a guitar cable though which will start sounding different after 15 ft.
GR-Research. I think all you are measuring is differences in amplitude of the signal rather than differences in frequency response so the only differences the changes you make should produce are changes in volume.
So "noise" can permeate our cable. But how much of that noise is amplified? It should be easy to hear the noise all by itself, if it exists, by turning up the volume on any input. I think you'd have to go up and cup your ear to the drivers to hear the differences in various cable changes. But you'd be unlikely to hear it from a normal listening position with music at midway levels. That last measurement you made with the coils probably represents the real-world levels at which the cable world is splitting hairs. Sure, it's measureable, but at an almost totally inaudible level.
The whole point of listening to higher quality components is to recreate the sound stage . If the recording is 100% then everything in the system has to be 100%. If your power source is noisy and your components can't filter out that noise you have to call the power company and or an electrician to start. Can we get some price per performance components. Like a good receiver a good amplifier good cables and show us some price points.
I'm confused why everyone is challenging Danny. So you heard the white noise tones, yes? Do you think he made those up? Do you think the measurements on the graph were made up or unrelated to the tones we heard? He's teaching us about inductance coupling. The inductor orientations represent the speaker wire orientations (from braiding to non-braiding). He does not need to switch between the wires. We can understand how one inductor oriented at 90° is very effective. That's exactly what the braided speaker wire will achieve. No?
@@nickburak7518 he said “more proof”. Until now, he hadn’t presented any at all. Listen up - Danny is selling cables. If he wants me to change my mind and buy *his* product too, he’s going to have to do a LOT of convincin’. Have you even seen this video? th-cam.com/video/dLghg0QXPzs/w-d-xo.html
@@nickburak7518 But he fails to show that any of that actually effects or is even relevant to what you hear when actually using wires as speaker cables. He is showing random known things about the properties of wire, not that ANY of that is relevant to whether a $500 super thick insulated speaker wire sounds more "open" than a standard 12g or 14g copper cable. You are leaping to the conclusion that somehow inductance is having some micro effect on what you hear. I don't know about you, but I don't connect inductors to my speaker cables. Nor do I tightly coil them. What he did show, is that you obviously don't stack your inductors in a crossover. And that's the problem with all of these videos. He is showing various attributes of wire that are known and real, but so what? That's literally what every one is arguing in these comments. If inductance is such a problem, and as he's shown it IS measurable, then measure it on two different speaker cables while in use. Why do some other irrelevant demonstration? I'm open to the idea, up to a point, that the construction of a cable might effect the sound, but these demonstrations are distractions.
@@redstang5150 Well the proof is sometimes something that you have to make the effort to find, even if it comes down to learning with an open mind and understanding that the speaker is a teacher and not a salesperson. It's not about the price of the wire, or what it's made of or how thick it is. Nor is is about XO assembly. That's not what this video is about. Most of the viewers cannot overcome that he used coils to demonstrate the power of strand orientation because they want to see Danny use the cables to show the power of strand orientation. Thats something that you need to understand. That's why Danny did that. It's not about insulation or sleeving technology. That's what is being misunderstood. It's about the natural filtration that goes on when the wires cross over each other at angles approaching 90°. Certainly you can't make a 90° rotation in the cables as there would be no dimension in the length, but maybe they are criss-crossing at 30 to 45° - even 10° I bet would be significant. I'm sure that you can think on that. I'm not trying to argue; it's simply that I understand how simply perfect the video was.
@@nickburak7518 What on earth are you talking about? This video series is about ONE thing - why (the quality of) speaker cables matter! And that implies that a more expensively constructed wire will somehow outperform a competently constructed inexpensive wire IN A TANGIBLE WAY. We all want to know. Therefore to show that they do, you have to be presented with a reasoned argument and some evidence that is relative to what you are trying to show. I could make lots of analogies to what Danny is doing here; i.e. by showing real properties of an attribute of an item, yet not showing AT ALL how those properties are relevant when they are actually used in the intended use case. Ok, so it is already well known that inductance exists in coils. Super. The question is if that matters and how it could potentially interfere with how a straight cable sounds. You can't simply infer that because it exists in scenario A that it must negatively effect the completely different scenario B. I'll repeat it again. Everyone totally understands what he is demonstrating here. What people are questioning is whether it is relevant to the goal. And no, the speaker IS a salesperson. Others can argue about whether he is being genuine, but you can't forget that he and all the "experts in the industry" that are his sources have a vested interest in getting people to believe that buying their cable will make their speakers sound better. My mind is open. I'm DYING for some real, relative evidence here, but we haven't gotten any yet.
Hahah that's funny! The high pass cell of any 2nd order crossover filter has an inductor in parallel with the tweeter. The same applies for the woofer, where in thic case the inductor is in series with the speaker, but the output impedance of the amp makes it like it was in parallel with it. The effect of induction on the inductors of the crossover filter are for sure orders of magnitude stronger than those in the speaker interconnects (you haven't proven it here, but take it for granted). This means that if there can be any audible affect of induced current in the speaker system (which there isn't, unless your system is next to an IMR scanning machine perhaps, LOL), is due to the induction picked up by the inductors in the crossover filter, and very much negligibly in comparison, to the induced current in teh speaker wires.
One of my questions would be, is there something within their hearing that doesn't allow them hear properly. Or could be simply be set so strong in their ways that doesn't make any difference whats being said.
@Douglas Blake well but think about one thing, u live in your house and ur ears are adjusted to the noise and echoes and reverberations in your house or room, u can even hear when when u walk from room to room or from room to a hole way or stairs etc how the sound changes, think about how much time u spend in ur own space and how ur brain decides to ignore the things u constantly hear and then think about if there is any small difference if u could hear it in your listening space, i bet u can! what u measure is sine wave and frequency sweeps? does that tell u anything about the interaction between ur speakers and room acoustics? even the slightest change can have an effect on the acoustic response of ur speakers in the environment ur used to hearing them, also music isnt a frequency sweep neither a sine wave test, the best way to measure is what u hear from ur speakers with two microphone at your listening position, why? cause music and sound is really complex with multiple frequencies at the same time and not just a simple sine wave, so far no one actually did any measurements of a WHOLE system well set up in a good room with all cheap cables from the wall to the speakers and compare the same system with higher quality cables through out and measure again, i bet there is something to be find.....
@Douglas Blake lol well I'm speaking ur language not mine so i guess ur nowhere near my level in my language anyway... yes it's been done alot but not for this purpose, it's just funny how always people with no experience seem to know all the science behind things, one question for you, did u ever try any expensive cables or ur just guessing it makes no difference cause of some science no one actually understands apparently so far, and also if the science behind measurements is so absolute why not take a trip way back to basics and ask the question "what is an electron and how does it look like" if u find any conclusive information on that then we can say that what we measure is real, but since we don't even know what's under our feet then how do we walk...
@Will lol well, but no one actually knows what and how an electron looks like or is, were just imagining things don't we, if you can't trust your hearing how can u trust measurements...
@Will lol well that link doesn't describe anything nor it shows any scientific proof of anything, the point is we cannot measure what we don't fully understand, simple as that, if people don't do practice is simply not science, same as practice vs theory is almost never as the theory suggests..
Danny, I'm enjoying this series; thank you, Sir. I appreciate what you do. I've noticed a few guys out in the TH-cam sphere with AP analyzers have a perpetual boner and obnoxious chip on their shoulder for the audio enthusiast community. The religion has quite a large following; I don't get it. They sure like to let everyone know ad nosism they have an AP analyzer. I think it would be more productive if the I-woke-up-with-a-negative-disposition crowd with a case of chronic sullenness could redirect their energy to better the audio hobby.
This is a 100% ridiculously pointless test, it has everything to do with a coil of wire with power flowing through it, I.E. an electro magnet, setting next to a coil of wire connected to a speaker... Everyone that has passed a basic electronics course knows that a magnetic field near a coil wires can generate a current...which is all this test shows, it has nothing to do with speaker cables at all. What you are displaying is EM transference, also known as inductive coupling, not RF.....
also, can't what is shown in the test be taken care of with component shielding and also shielding the crossover from the outside world? Amir, of Audio Science Review tested the RF idea, in wires and according to what he measured, the RF isn't perceivable because it is beyond our range of hearing. I still wonder if the ultra high frequencies of RF could impart a "character" to the electrical flow. Of course there are other things that could disrupt the electrical flow, as well... The question is, unless you are listening to planar magnetics or electrostatics, could you even hear it, with say a paper cone, if the inaudible RF is imposing itself on the electrical flow ("sound")?? I am just not sure if it is even audible on audio "devices" with higher moving mass. A paper cone, vs. a planar magnetic diaphragm = two different worlds..
From now on, I'm going to wear a tin foil hat when listening to music ... I don't want RF interference in my ears. I plan to sell those hats for $1,000 apiece ... get'em before the price goes up folks! 😜
Someone explain this to me. If my speaker cables are indeed picking up unwanted noise (RF and what not) and if it is indeed audible, then I should hear that noise even if my system is on standby (meaning amp and source turned on but nothing playing) correct/no? Yet I put my ears inches away from my speakers and they are dead silent.
I always go after these guys pushing magic cables. Usually end up being told my system isn't gold enough to resolve the improvement.... I guess these cables aren't for everyone. I've done the same thing and my system isn't ridiculously but it isn't cheap crap. Hok up some basic zip cord toss it out on the floor over some power cords and whatever. System on, nothing playing crank it up and nothing..... These EMI and RF frequencies being picked up by the cable must only effect things while music is playing.... what about the wires inside the speaker cabinet.... if I moved to the Alaskan Klondike can I use regular cables since theres no interferance up there. Probably cost less than Dannys system.
You won't hear the noise itself so much. What is heard is what it does and how it effects the audio signal. Tune into the next episode and I will go over it more.
Yes, despite what Danny claims, you would HAVE to hear some sort of noise if any of this were an audible issue. The fact that you don't is all the proof you need to know that this is a crock. If it wasn't obvious by all the convoluted "experiments" being performed in a bad attempt to imply that something unexplained is an issue, when he could just as easily actually measure the two cables, the the fact that you hear nothing but silence in your system is all you need to know. If you turn your speakers on and hear an AM radio station then you have a different problem that nothing Danny is trying to sell you is going to fix.
Hello Danny, I didn’t care much for Audio Science Review website, especially the followers of ACR (I don’t like conflict) which is why I hardly visited the site. Audio Science Review is now on TH-cam. I really wanted to hate Amir guts, but to my surprise he comes across as a nice well intentioned person and like you tries to bring clarity to us users on the audio product that we love and like to use (can’t fault or hate that). I think the truth lies somewhere in between the data and measurement and the actually building testing and listening. Stay safe, Brian
Frosty C. Danny is right on point. The science is clear and you don't need measurements on paper to prove it. Nevertheless he provides meaningful measurements and - most importantly - the hearing test. There is no truth 'somewhere in the middle" as you say. Simply put, wire orientation matters. End of story. Otherwise you would be going up against titans like Kimber Kable and Audioquest if you disagree with Danny. It's these guys who know what they are talking about, not the guys here in Commentsville.
@@davidlong1786 David. I'm sorry to see that you are jaded by the sales pitch. I don't trust salespeople so much as I can toss my trash. I'm tired of it, too. That's why I do my own research. Here's the thing. Most salespeople don't know anything. If I have even a slightly technical question for any reason, most salespersons (I'd like to say 'all of them') of any kind can't help me. I'm the expert and I tell them to take it to the cash. I think and they do. That's how I am. But sometimes I need their help. What then? Research. Watch this video: th-cam.com/video/_rWLCSx0Zuw/w-d-xo.html This guy is what to you? A salesperson? He better be - he's the CEO. But is the quality of his products in question? Absolutely not. Are his products too expensive for you? Ah, that's a different story. Sales people are meant to sell product. You want a job? You have to sell yourself. Honesty and science isn't enough - the product must be advertised. It's not such a bad thing. But what if the sales person knows what he's talking about, the product top shelf and the deal is a good one, even if it's 10x more than you'd ever pay? You may not care. You may not understand. You may not be able to tell the difference. You may want to spend your money on something else. Same for everything, but sometimes good stuff is overlooked. Often, that's the way it always will be.
Lol, look at our affordable speaker cables...omg. 3 foot = rouglhy 1 meter. That makes about 40 dollars a meter. Meaning, if you need 3 meter per side, makes it 240 dollar. Then you are not ready, nonono, you must do the connections yourself. Bi-wiring, bi amping? Kajing, the doubler bonus , 480 dollars!. Can you define affordable ? Have cables here, pure copper, 8 dollar the meter x5 x2, at 80 dollars and i am king ;-) (thank god they not invented triple-amping/wiring....yet). But i must admit; if i bought these kind of fancy cables, with argb leds, jewelry patrons, twisted, etc.etc. i surely would take a extra meter and lay them IN FRONT of my stereo, with standoffs ofcourse. Look bro, aren't they gorgious to look at! And the sound! Amazing!
I think cables make a difference but only if you have the rest of your system at a high level. Some people spend thousands of dollars on cables but only spend a $1 on room treatment.
Speaker cables MAY make a difference depending on a given situation of equipment, cable layout, EMI/RFI field strength, and personal sensitivity. It doesn't depend on the sophistication or cost of an audio system, a Radio Shack system can be influenced by EMI/RFI in an audible way, although a small amount of EMI/RFI field strength may well go unnoticed in a low-end system but noticed by a person with a large expense and interest in the sound.
Thank you for demonstrating why the positioning of inductors in a crossover construction is important. The cable issue is still more about psychoacoustics than science, but that arguement will rage until the end of time or for as long as companies make lots of money selling cables.
Nice to hear a compliment go to Danny. So far I've read far more "I don't believe you, Danny" comments than anything positive. But, what can be heard (a reduction in inductance coupling) is science. Maybe Danny cannot provide you with any more proof 'scientifically speaking', like as in numbers and formulas than this, but it's more than enough for me. I guess I'm the odd man out, but this is often the case with people who understand something that's different or difficult to understand.
@@nickburak7518 I may have complimented Danny on the stuff he does around crossover optomisation it adds value - the cable sounds "better" issue is all smoke and mirrors and adds nothing to his credibility.
Explained inductance coupling with inductors, funny when you put them close to each other they induct each other, hope you weren't surprised. Good thing even basic speaker wire doesn't behave this way. Cause if you wound 20ft of it into spools the result would be different. Typical stereo setups in home use wire runs are under 20ft, inductance between parallel conductors isn't an issue in this use case. You can avoid inductance coupling just by pulling the zip cord apart and keepkng the pos/neg an inch apart. But nobody does this cause its not an issue. Most of what I've read or tested resistance has the most audible effect. The EMI and RF this braided cable may be filtering out isn't audible to humans. If you believe this cable you will need some to replace the wire INSIDE your speakers as well. Make sure ALL your other cables are shielded as well, without consistency its null. Also many high end shielded cables from well known brands fail independent testing. Hopefully the next video has some actual proof. If it cant be measured or quantified its bogus. If this really works and has an effect 23awg sllid core CAT6a is much cheaper by the foot and should be just as effective.
@@iowaudioreviews Thanks. Danny used a powerful tool (two inductors) to show what's happening in speaker wire when it's proximal to other wires and radio signals (dunno how serious he was about the radio signals example, because, after all, there is no radio tuner connected to the XO, right?). But speaker wire doesn't act powerfully like the coils. Correct? So the discussion is moot. If there was any noise to be detected and shown on the screen, it would be so low as to not even inspire anyone to bother with the exercise of designing special wire to remove it. Am I catching your drift a little bit? Also, could you please help me to understand why Ray Kimber developed these cables in the first place then? Because as he said, he was trying to figure out how to remove the interferences in speaker wires in professional set-ups like concerts audio. I used to set up stage sound and never noticed any problems. Mind you, the wires were balanced and speakers were powered.
Video number 3 without a double blind test of speaker cables. Come on Danny. How much power did you send to that coil? And did you send an RF signal or an audio signal? What did you prove with that test regarding speaker cables? Nothing! Nobody, especially no electrical engineer, doubts that cables act like an antenna and/or a filter. And most of us know how coils and transformers work. The question is if a tiny RF signal is enough change the output of a speaker which is connected to a big amplifier. Why don't you demonstrate that one? We are all waiting for that double blind test with an amp, two different speaker cables, and a speaker. I am sure you have all those things right next to you. Why don't you do that test and show us the difference? Double blind. Can you, the expert, reliably detect the difference between a good cable and a special super duper speaker cable? Show us!
Danny I found this demo very intriguing. Specifically it has repercussions on crossover layout. In my reply to Tesla Nick below I cite the subliminal signals that render a sound "faithful" which may be at -60dB (or even much less) like echo, decay, complex instrument harmonics and so-on. Your demo showed that even when fields of inductors are orthogonal to each other, there may be bleed-over which can be significant. I would suggest there needs to be a crossover builder's guide to minimizing this effect (by increasing physical separation), in order to heighten the fidelity of the speakers. Do you agree? It could be a rule of thumb (no two inductors nearer than 3" to each other and fields always orthogonal) or something more application-oriented based on the expected continuous RMS current and coil induction (mH) determining spacing. In any case you opened my eyes just how strong this can be. All the best, Rob
@Jeremy Yes, I can well imagine that is a good idea, since capacitors and inductors are microphonic. It would make crossover upgrades easier too! :-) All the best, Rob
@Douglas Blake in any way, resitance does not change the tone of the sound, right? More resistance of the full signal means you hear the sound softer and need to crank up the gain to get the same soundpressure from your drivers.
Just read this review from Jason Victor Serinus in Stereophile reviewing some $8000 Sony speakers..... I also sought Carlsson's views on aftermarket power cords. "When we set up the SA-Z1s in our San Diego headquarters and at the 2019 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, we definitely heard an improvement using some high-end Kimber power cables and a Kimber USB-C cable from my MacBook," he told me. "It was definitely an audible upgrade." Very nicely put.....
If you need 1750dollars of worth power cable to make a speaker sound superb, theres is something seriously wrong with the speakers to begin with (or the amp that powers the speakers)..
@@djmadrox7539 yes, but i dont know if it is really that simple. There is so much going with all the factors, influences and variables that go along with signal transmission and reproduction.
@@chrisbarnhart7944 www.soundguys.com/debunking-myths-about-audio-cables-13093/ what you hear is nothing more then a "fixed equalizer "... your ears are fooling you ...lol
I really appreciate the way you keep coming back to (calmly) share your thoughts on this. And for pointing out how simply we can all apply the scientific method to the cable question. And "you might as well just be licking it or somethin'" was hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣
There's nothing scientific about this demo. If you don't believe me, write a paper covering the test and send it to the AES and see if it gets accepted. I can guarantee you, it won't.
@@4everB2 But you're the one suggesting it's a scientific demo, not me. Please don't put words in my mouth. What I'm commending Danny for is pointing out how simply we can all apply the method (ie. the only valid approach to answering the question of whether cables sound different is to listen). No other experiment is a valid way to ascertain whether a given cable, with a specific set of a equipment, in a particular room, will sound different to a given person (we don't all have the same ears). Measuring something else is a waste of time, as Danny has pointed out.
@@GrahamAtDesk Than this is all a bit confusing to say the least. If listening is the online valid approach, than why did we see some misleading measurements instead of a report of a controled listening test? This is a manipulative thing to do.
One more thing: Speaker cables must be thick enough to handle high amperage, made of pure copper or silver and short enough to minimize resistance. That's what the good audio system needs.
AWG 14 cable can easily handle constant 1000W into 4ohm (and it could go up to 2500W) - I don't think amperage is an issue. Resistance is, you want thick and short just to keep resistance as low as possible. Cable resistance not only decreases the sensitivity of your system, but it also decreases damping factor.
@@tomkocurSeries resistance introduced by the cable is an order or two orders of magnitude lower than that of the inductor in series with either the low or low midrange driver present in a passive crossover. This and driver voice coil temperature rise under load, leading to increase in DC resistance are the two main factors responsible, not the cable itself.
So you think you proved that speaker cables make a difference by playing with the inductors and NOT swapping the speaker cables? That's like proving a different transmission in your car makes more horsepower by changing the tires. Sorry, this is NOT science.
r u being dense just to be a jerk? if you are unwilling to see the parallels here then you are not in the right place. current is current in a wire, it can pick up noise and transfer it. period. how many hi end cables have you a/b'd?
@@veroman007 I'm pretty sure it's you that is the dense one here, EM transference from an electro magnet into a coil of wires is simply inductive coupling and learned in freshman Highschool basic electronics, all this video shows is inductive coupling and shows absolutely no RF transference at all, had he laid that inductor next to speaker wires connected to that tweeter rather than an inductor, no noise would have been heard, Danny is a snake oil salesman that knows he has an uneducated audience, and he plays it very well to sell way overpriced sound deadening mats, crossover components and wires to simpletons that don't understand how he's lying to them....There are no parallels here between what was shown and what was claimed.
@@veroman007 The principles shown in the video have been known and measured for well over 100 years. That's why crossover networks use coiled wire and speaker cables run parallel. A simple, definitive test would have been to swap the speaker cables (with an audio amplifier driving them into a proper load impedance) and then watch the scope and listen. I suspect the difference would be so negligible that nobody would be able to see it or hear it. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You might want to learn some basic electronics before putting your ignorance and lack of manners on full display.
Not to mention that its about speaker cables, which from a signal standpoint have an impedance as low as 25mΩ once an amplifier is hooked up. The real source of interference is, and almost always will be, at the amplifier input. Thats where I would like to have the balanced audio. At the speaker terminals the high currents and low impedance means fairly high noise immunity. And from an electrical stand point, audio is just DC, so only have to worry mainly about wire resistance in normal runs.
@Douglas Blake Sorry, I meant that it behaves identically to DC for all intents and purposes electrically from the standpoint of your wires. Its not like, say 100MHz RF which then does all kinds of odd things when you try to stuff it through a random wire.
@Douglas Blake The overly pedantic might bring up the skin effect, but that will still be substantially less than the impedance from the cross-over and tweeter at 20kHz.
Physicists and engineers know very well the importance of the order of magnitude. A relative "high" voltage, "low" frequency signal as the one that runs throw a speaker cable is VERY different from the low voltage, high frequency signal of an ethernet cable. It's almost as comparing oranges with apples.
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Sorry Danny, I am not wasting money on high priced cables when the regular speaker wire I have sounds just fine. If I had the money, I would buy them for the looks, not the sound.
Not everyone has hearing good enough to hear the difference, but at least it's cheaper for you.
The inductance of a simple speaker cable is of such a low value that filter attenuation (treble cut ) to the -3db point would I expect be well over 100khz so nothing to worry about.
The answer all these guys have is, well your syatem just isn't good enough to resolve it. Danny basicly told in a recent comment because I'd never listened to music on a REAL system... My amp, dac, speakers alone are $2k, how expensive of a system is required to hear the difference of these cables...lol. I guess these cables are only for people with REAL systems
@@iowaudioreviews Infinitely expensive, because it doesn't exist!
@@iowaudioreviews That's just bullshit. Turn on your system, max volume, no input signal (playback stopped). Do you hear any noise coming out of your speakers? I don't. I can put my ear right on the tweeter and there's just dead silence until I press play. 130W from amp, 83dB/1m/1W at the speaker. Doesn't matter whether my system is good enough for you or not, THERE IS NO NOISE.
The only thing that's audibly susceptible to EMI is the signal cable due to higher impedances on both its ends.
You should go over a sort of good, better, best at different price ranges for cables. I think anyone can agree that less noise in a cable is better, but at a certain extent, having $500 in cables and $100 in speakers probably won't sound as good as $100 in cables and $500 in speakers, so a recommendation as to how much you should have into your system before going for each tier of cables would be helpful. I think a lot of us here are interested in the DIY aspect to get the most bang for the buck and knowing when and what to upgrade could help a lot of us.
Don't go by price, especially with cables. Focus on sound quality. System matching is everything. Its very common to prefer a cheaper cable over an expensive one.
So suddenly a wire is equivalent to a multi turn inductor? No, it isn't. Why don't you show the same measurements using actual speaker cables instead?
Because there wouldn't be a difference.
Absolutely. He puts 4 ohm resistor that is the equivalent of 4 THOUSAND feet 10 gauge wire. How is this relevant??? I think this channel might be trolling us for views.
exactly , how many turns of wire are in each coil, straight speaker wires will not behave the same, unless you leave all the wire on the large spool it came on except for a couple of feet on either end to connect to the amp and speaker, and then put both spools on top of each other.
@@hitsov IKR? I love watching this guy! He is such a dope. I would love to watch him design a basic circuit live.
OMG you just invented the transformer! Yer gonna be rich bro!
You very well demonstrated your fundamental lack of knowledge to perfection.
8:50 : Run exact same test by substituting the transformers each for left and right strands of standard (cheap) speaker cables. I suspect you would not be able to hear anything from the tweeter, nor would anything be measurable because the inductive coupling would not result in any output signal being above the noise floor. This is because the inductance of the speaker cables is orders of magnitude lower than the inductance of the inductors used in the experiment most likely. This makes a huge difference when amplifying a .001V (1mV) or so signal by 1000x such as from a moving coil cart by a phono preamp, however a speaker signal does not get re-amplified and the signal level itself is already high compared to the ambient noise being induced. Not a critique, just an observation; love your vids. Cheers.
Nice to hear your input as an engineer on this channel stereopolice. One thing to think about is the broadband noise is feedback through the negative feedback line from the speaker output to the input stage of the amplifier. I think Danny mentioned this in one of the videos. The very high frequency noise could potentially ride on the input signal. Although the signal is not audible it could be plausable that it could be passed as lower frequency noise into the input signal changing the original signal. There are low pass filters inside amps to filter out RF, so this may be a mute point.
@@zulumax1 right on brother, the type of noise you refer to is usually eliminated by the resistor in parallel with the inductor in series with the output of most Class A B amplifiers and other amplifiers you will see it on most schematics and that's why it's actually there, for stability because of the negative feedback circuit and the poles.
You would get capacitive coupling, but it would be in the pico farads and the impedance would be way too high to have any output into a low impedance circuit at either end, source or load, amp or speaker. Now the high current signal from the amplifier could induce a bucking current through the adjacent conductor, that is more likely to have an effect. I just retired from a company that my job was building cables and wiring harnesses for aircraft. We built many with twisted multi-conductor sets for low weight and noise reduction. What he says is true, but not relevant to what is being heard, in my opinion.
Crickets..........................
@@zulumax1 Hight quality speaker cable, according to this guy, can shield your system against crickets too; those things make a ton of noise.
I' m agreeing with David Long about this video. Many of us understand emf interference in regards to inductors as well as parallel conductors and do not dispute what you are saying. However, the issue is the matter of the audible and measurable effects of emi or rfi for the lengths of speaker wire in a typical home environment in which the amp to speaker conductor isn't running parallel to a high voltage and current carrying cable or an object putting out more than 1 watt of rf. One thing for sure is that the capacitance is increased with woven, braided, or twisted pair which means at certain lengths they act as an ac frequency filter as well as one that rejects interference. Which is a shame when it comes to attempting to connect a phono cartridge to a phono preamp because everything you are talking about becomes extremely important because the signal output from a phono cartridge is at the same level of emi and rfi of a typical home environment. There is no doubt that the speaker cable you are selling is great at rejecting interference and I wish a similar construction could be used as phono interconnects without the increased capacitance being a problem. With all that said I am not rejecting the possibility that speaker cable differences can be heard. However, when it comes to cost I think for most people the extra expense would be of more use when spent on better drivers, baffle design, or crossover components.
I think that David Long missed the point. It's super simple, and you don't need a full-range moving audio sample and speaker wire switch box to understand. In fact, this will confuse us. That's why he used a white noise tone and the simple four orientations to examine. Inductance coupling is all about wire orientation. Nothing more. This is the principle that most of us missed I fear. I've explained it more in my reply to Mr. Long.
Here's an analogy of measuring the wrong thing: It's like dipping a paper cup into the Atlantic Ocean in Nantucket, inspecting the cup of seawater, and proclaiming, "There are no sharks in the ocean, because I looked and found nothing."
Who measures the wrong things with regards to cables?
Engineers can do a lot of measurements that can explain differences in sound but they are not part of the simplistic (and irrelevant measurements as far as EMI/RFI is concerned) required by the FTC Amplifier Rule, which is largely under enforced and ignored anyway. Scientifically performed and valid subjective testing is too expensive to do on a regular basis, which leaves the door open for unscientific demonstrations to "prove" that cables make a difference.
@@StewartMarkley a _good_ engineer, however, can do some practical measurements that _do_ make sense. To be really simplistic. Imagine that your speakers are 4 ohms and that we ignore the _actual_ impedance as a complex function of frequency.[1] In the ideal case, a modern amplifier is a voltage source. This means "zero" impedance and a high capacity of delivering current to keep the voltage stable even if the impedance of the load (speaker) drops to undesired lows. This voltage source is what modern speakers are designed for.
If your cable is 2 ohms, the speaker does not see a voltage source, but instead one with 2 ohms in series. BAD. It means that the cable will become warm, as it eats at least a third of the power. Warmth increases its impedance, making the situation worse.
As long as your impedance is less than, say, a hundred times that of your speaker, nothing can go wrong. Parasitic capacity does not play a role, because the whole exposed circuit is connected to a voltage source with almost zero impedance.[2] If the cable somehow manages to have a high inductance, this can be bad. However, you probably would have to wind it around something on purpose to make this a practical problem.
A good engineer knows all this. Use a good combination of thickness and length and it will be okay.
If a cable has "sound" it is an inaccurate cable. If you _like_ that inaccurate sound: go buy the cable. Many people like the "warmth" of tube amplifiers: go for it!
____
[1] I use impedance consistently, as "resistance" is only the non-complex part of impedance. A resistor with a capacitor in parallel is a circuit with a complex impedance that changes frequency response and phase. A speaker with a crossover and two drivers is a hellishly complex impedance. The goal of an amplifier is to keep the voltage across the speaker terminals an enlarged copy of the input, _no matter what._
[2] The voltage source is not ideal, of course. The damping factor is probably guaranteed for 20-20kHz, however above that it could be much lower. In that case, parasitic capacity and induction might even help to mitigate "reception" of radio frequencies.
@@StewartMarkley FTC (correction FCC) is concerned about devices that generate radio interference as a biproduct of operation of an electronic device.
@@TheEmmef As an audio and RF engineer with 50 years of experience in those fields, I am quite aware of the technical issues of amplifiers, cables, and speakers. My point here was to point out that while measurements can indeed explain the differences in sound, the kind of measurements that are needed are not something that is done or at least provided by the industry. Also, the measurements defined by the FTC Amplifier Rule do not encompass those measurements, and that the FTC does not even enforce the current rule anyway. Therefore there are no measurements done and specs provided to help inform the customers that might even care about this anyway.
Just to make sure we are all on the same page:
The term "cable" being referred to here is the "wire" which connects the amplifier speaker outputs to the speaker, not an RCA interconnect. Seems to be a lot of confusion here on terms used. Bought my first "Kimber Cable" 8 conductor black/brown speaker "wire" in 1983, still have it. They have actually been around for a long long time. I always assumed it was the expanding and collapsing magnetic field surrounding a speaker wire caused by the ac music signal traveling through the wire that effected the sound. Low impedance circuit there is going to be a lot of current, any current caused by RF would be squashed, just not strong enough field to produce current. Not saying it doesn't sound different, I am saying the conclusion is flawed.
At 8:07 the result with poles 90° opposed was "almost non-existent". Here you indicate what would happen if the same test were done using a straight run of basic speaker wire: a completely non-existent (or at least inaudible) change in the measured output.
@Douglas Blake Yes, it seems you're confirming what I pointed out from 8:07: "with poles 90° opposed" = "on right angles to each other"
@Douglas Blake So then braided wires would actually be worse for rejecting EMI? Very interesting.
The question isn't whether it sounds different. The question is does it sound BETTER to justify the ridiculous prices some cables cost.
Well, obviously. More expensive ALWAYS means tighter bass, clearer treble, lower noise floor, more detail and all that stuff... There are no exceptions.
Of course it sounds better, mate. Your system sounds horrible! But with this new $1000000 cable, everything opens up! The sound stage opens, the re is detail in the highs, angels come through the speakers and caress your ears...
Lets do a simple test. Any amplifier fed with a 10khz square wave at a nominal 5 watts output. A none inductive load resistor. Scope across the load. Test 1 connect the two via 10 feet of normal speaker cable, look at the output. Test 2 same set up but use the super wonderful cable. See which one makes the amplifier ring most?
@Jondahl Davis Some people think that Gods are real, very odd.
Inductor is not speakers wire.
And yet all electric cables carry a electro-magnetic field when current is running through them.
Everything was fine until you started to talk about cables. No one is questioning mutual inductance between coils with many windings aligned in these different ways, but you cannot just infer from there.
Well, if you can infer that "seventies-tuner-FM-signal-strength of a cable used as antenna (while just hanging over your messy desk" says _everything_ about how that cable "sounds", this is nothing!
@@TheEmmef No continuity to this debate, if there is one. We haven't established that RF does anything to the sound in the first place. Am I correct?
@@zulumax1 Well, if GR-research makes a claim that it does, he should at least follow that up with research that backs his thesis. He did not. From my background in physics, the situation of a one-ended, open-ended connection of a cable to the antenna-input of a FM receiver and what that receiver sees, has _nothing_ to do with an audio interconnect that uses both wires (signal and ground) and emanates from a very low impedance output stage.
@@TheEmmef There are follow up videos, and he keeps claiming to have proof, but proof of what? Keeps going down the same rabbit hole.
There is more EMI broadband noise coming in through the power cord that could ever be brought into a stereo by a speaker cord wicking noise into the more sensitive high impedance high gain circuits inside which can alter the sound. Some folks use shorting RCA plugs on the unused inputs of their gear. Now that I can understand.
Why didn't Danny run the same test with the actual cables? Because there wouldn't be any difference lol.
You have to address the following:
1. The fact people are not doing blind tests, and the fact that not doing so absolutely messes up the science of your test. In your own words, you're measuring the wrong thing.
2. The magnitude of everyday EMI/RFI on the wire acting as an antenna, and what that is relative to the signal on the wire. SNR matters.
3. The simplicity of a simple test of listening to a blank signal on a system and seeing if you can tell whether the system is on or off. Is there any EMI/RFI to hear? Remember to do this test blind.
I've been generous and watched all the videos to date in the series.
What you have done is proven that this _is_ a difference.
No one debates this.
What is debated is whether this matters in an audible way that passes a simple blind (or double blind if you're diligent) test.
I give up, I am selling everything. None of the 20hz to 20khz components I own are built with RF shielding, the speaker terminal, the crossover, the power supplies, the circuit boards etc., I have been listening to distorted music disguising itself as pleasing. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. BTW do you shield your crossovers from RFI? Because it will penetrate the wooden speaker box.
Next from gr-research: giant metallic sock that covers speakers to prevent picking up RFI coupling. For the low price of $105 a pair 🤣🤣🤣
Not everyone has hearing good enough to make out the more subtle differences that cables and shielding etc can bring. Count yourself lucky, it will work out much cheaper for you.
@@garywright8137 another factor is that not every system will resolve the differences that cables make. Just as poor cables can mask subtle differences in the music, poor components can mask subtle differences made by the cables.
Dont give up. This is a great hobby. Follow the undeniable facts. Ritchie is conflicted. He doesn't know if he believes in science or not.. His speaker designs/reviews/ and crossover upgrades are solid.. Discard the rest about his "magic" components..
Another fun fact: If engineers can make plain old 2 sided PCB's that work into the 100's of Megahertz range with low amounts of received/transmitted EMI then a loudspeaker system can be competently designed to work in the 4 to 8 ohm range @ up to 20Khz! 😉🤣🤣🤣
"You might as well lick it or something" man you crack me up
I don't normally do this, but I just had to watch this again and wrap my head around it. And I also am not normally derisive of anyone, but I think I figured it out: Danny knows just enough to be stupid. I don't like saying that as we all have our limits, but I think its true. The experiment thus presented is valid. The coils will act as an air cored transformer with varying degrees of efficiency when put next to each other due to mutual coupling of their magnetic fields. Indeed audio transformers do just that via magnetic coupling and provide the useful property of impedance transformation. However, unravel each coil until the magnet wire is straight, and lay it next to another unraveled coil, and the mutual magnetic coupling will be infinitesimal at audio frequencies. Like its not even the same thing. What are we actually trying to show? Its like saying: "Here I can prove string theory. Watch me play checkers. See, its completely true!" The test as absolutely nothing to do with speaker wires.
Yes, the same thing can happen with speaker cables. See what other experts in this field say: th-cam.com/video/_rWLCSx0Zuw/w-d-xo.html
@@dannyrichie9743 Here's an actual video on the topic, with demonstrations: th-cam.com/video/TVCmPrDthlE/w-d-xo.html I personally would have used a power cord connected to equipment since the effect would be more dramatic once there is sizeable current flowing, but its still valid. You are absolutely correct that magnetic fields can couple into speaker wire, but there's the important concept of _node impedance_ in electronics. Magnetic coupling will only be an issue near power line frequencies and their harmonics. You can calculate the relative magnitudes by the intrinsic impedance of an amplifier output, which is only milliohms at low frequencies. Furthermore, the amplifier has ENORMOUS loop gain at low frequencies if its a linear one. Therefore anything that does make it thru, will be squashed into oblivion by feedback. The only place you will experience intense interference on the speaker side is at high RF where the amplifier presents a high output impedance. This is especially a problem with the speakers themselves since they just have single hookup wire in them to tie the drivers together, and they make great antennas at RF. Effect is easily demonstrated by leaving a cellphone next to a speaker. Often you will hear a clicking sound in the speakers. The place where what you say is absolutely an issue, is at the input of the amplifier, where impedances can approach 500kΩ, and there's not much there to resist anything that couples in.
Watch me play checkers Lmao 🤣
Based on the the waveform I saw on the screen, the amplitude changed, but not the sound, aka the shape of the waveform.
Danny, you forgot to "educate" everyone that an inductor is just a piece of wire that has been wound into a looping structure (usually a round coil). The key difference between speaker wire (and any shielding) is that inductor wire is insulated on its ENTIRE LENGTH (except the very ends where you connect the leads). This insulation is the "red" coating that you see on your inductors in the video. Whereas speaker wire, and any shield surround speaker wire is made out of bare-wire that is not insulated so that it can conduct electrons as best as possible (which is the speaker wire and any shieldings job). Comparing an inductor and the physics of its operation to a bulk conductor in open air is very different. Your demo about coupling in inductors is one thing, but then switching horses to speaker wire acting the same way is very misleading. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations can show the way.
@Marten Dekker @Marten Dekker Yeah, this logic jump is amazing. A long-wire layed out flat, like a typical speaker cable has virtually no inductance effects...like infinitesimal. Rather the capacitance between it and any parallel conductor (like in lampcord speaker wire) would be the more dominating effect, and arguably that capacitance effect is negligent and immaterial to the end-result. But yeah, comparing a inductor which is made out very tiny insulated wire, all wound up...to a big gauge multi-strand speaker cable (with or without shielding) that is laid out mostly flat is apples to oranges headscratcher for any electrical engineer.
.
As for cross-overs...well, there is some "art of the compromise" I feel for speaker designers to get a good final result...but these videos aren't discussing that topic at all...rather somehow comparing the magnetic coupling w/ inductors to speaker wire, which if anything is capacitively coupled. Need to go back to basics and explain to people what's actually going on /w physics....none of this has to do with speaker wire's main job is to push energy to the speakers over a distance. People can solve this concern buy just buying active speakers that are becoming more popular. Then the distance of the internal wiring to the drivers is super small haha. Expect Danny would probably like to examine and upgrade that ~1 ft of wire inside the cabinet though :)
You have a gentle way of pointing out the false logic here. I wish I had your tact. It’s hard though when you’ve heard this garbage recycled over and over. Why can’t a guy just stick to marketing speakers that can sound nice? A grandiose ego perhaps?
I regret not watching this earlier, because I'm laughing so hard! Reminded me about the experiments made in primary school. This sophism is so wrong that I cannot even describe it. So just because there are magnetic fields that might interact with each other, then a cable changes the sound.
Yeah, at which ghetto school did you get educated?
Cables make a difference. Without them, we have no music.
All jokes aside - yes there is a difference between a crap wire and a good cable. Problem is that a good cable is relatively cheap to produce, but Audophool companies are promoting snake oil to get the suckers in. If you bought a $23 000 system, then yes - I understand that you would want a several hundred dollar set of cables. I mean, it'll look prettier compared to a $20 generic cable. But don't lie to yourself - it is just a dress up.
And this guy once said in a video that he used cryogenically frozen wooden cable stands (wow!) and he heard a difference. Just no comment there.
What about putting a ferrite ring over parallel-pair or twisted-pair speaker cable? It could be cheaper. Since there are many different ferrites, we can choose one that does not affect audio frequency.
Thank you for the advice. Because of the placement of my equipment i had about 1m length where the speaker cables were touching each other. I rearranged the layout to maximise the distance and also kept away from mains cables was surprised how much better the bass reproduction became.
Standard audio measurements would explain,
The only thing wire can effect is overall volume level and frequency response due to its resistance, capacitance and inductance.
I had installing problems with a coil and capasitor in my speaker filter a big coil 2,7mh next to a 5,6uf cap practaly cap againsed the coil wires. So like you have tested with coil to coil. So I have placed a sheet of Mu metal between those. This is very well hearable woouw the highs are more loose standing. Differance is not tiny I just set power to my cold tubeamp and right away noticeable.
Thanks I had never come to install a little sheet of 0,004" thick ( 0,1mm) i had some left over Mu metal for sheelding a turntable motor againsed hum. Cool stuff this topics and speakers cables react the same way like you said.
for a guy whose entire business model is making speakers sound better and showing us the graphs, it's hilarious that you can't show a graph of cables sounding better. Go do an A/B/X blind test and show us the results. Different tracks, different days, one of your cables and one of a $50 dollar pair of good quality 12 gauge twisted teflon coated Monoprice cable.
You think it's hilarious that speaker cable quality can't be graphed by me? Have you ever heard of any graphing what we hear?
@@dannyrichie9743 you mean something like a hearing test? Just had one, and I have the hearing of a person 1/2 my age.
@@dannyrichie9743 Yeah, it's called frequency response.
@@dannyrichie9743 what I'm not hearing is noise, you can't manufacture a problem that doesn't exist and then claim to magically fix it by buying expensive speaker cable. A/B/X test and show us those results. You know, the same way you show us the results of every crossover you improve? Consistency.
He is showing us all the graphs that show a difference.
Labs that I am aware of consider oscilloscope measurements to be objective science. These instruments are not subject to psychological bias or Mr. Wizard Mumbo Jumbo.
@Douglas Blake Another BIG hint: Identical electrical signals fed into a particular speaker will produce identical sound that leaves the vibrating cones of that speaker.
I think the issue is copper wire from Rat Shack or off the loom at Lowe's isn't going to sound HORRIBLE to most people, heck not even to me. It's actually fairly hard to get HORRIBLE audio nowadays, but there is MUCH BETTER quality audio experiences to be had, if you know how to set your room up, and pick the right equipment. I recently had to grab some 14ga copper wire from Lowes to use an amp that I hadn't touched in a while and did not have banana plugs on it. The sound was fine, deep and wide soundstage, instrument decay was there, dynamics were as expected, blah blah blah, it sounded fine. I changed amplification and saw improvements across the board, nothing glaringly wrong with the presentation, just an improvement over the previous amplifier (most notable was the control over the woofers so bass was deeper and tighter). Now with the new amp in place I could use my banana plugs again, so in went the Mogami cables which are not terribly expensive, maybe $225 or so for the banana terminated 10 foot pair. I wasn't expecting much at all, but what I got was a bit more of the top end and overall clarity. In general terms the Lowes cable sounded a tad duller to a degree. I don't have a problem with etch or brightness in my system, the sound was a tad livelier. Kind of appropriate I think for the difference in cost. Nothing magical or monumental but a tad better. If I hadn't swapped it out, I doubt I'd ever consider that the sound was lacking. I wasn't looking for it, I just noticed it. I'm not in the "good enough" crowd in the sense that I'll go bargain basement on things, I like well constructed devices and materials, so a couple hundred for good speaker cable from a reputable brand made sense, and in the end it actually made a slight DIFFERENCE. There's a crowd that swears by interconnects and speaker cables made from twisted UTP ethernet cable. I just haven't had the time (I've got plenty of the stuff on a spool) to try that out, but apparently it sounds good. Danny's implementation seems to be along the same lines but taken to another level. Personally I need to try it out myself, the problem is that I have the room arranged in a way that those snakes would become a trip hazard. Time to finish up some work so I can get some seat time with my rig.
High (speaker) level signal across UTP cable is a stupid idea. It might make the sound different, but definitely won't make it more true to the source (therefore objectively better). You want low resistance and UTP is just not that, because it's designed for a completely different purpose.
PLEASE HELP me understand why you use thick and often shielded speaker cables right to the speaker and then inside the speaker, near the magnetic coils and so on, do you use thin unshielded cables? :-)
These questions are not permitted.
@@spudpud-T67 lol, sorry, my bad:-)
The phone companies knew this. That's why we have CAT5 and CAT6e cables for networking. It shields the wire, not making it a filter. A filter implies that it will still be an antenna.
excellent demo. 'nuff said !
12:05 "Have we learned anything yet?"
Oh there is so much to unpack here. You pretend that people think cables don't matter. You claim that you know which cables sound better.
You are using coils which are not remotely comparable to straight wires. Seriously, not even close. Your woven cable *still* just has a lot of parallel wires that *will* still induce on eachother.
And ofcourse; you clai to be able to hear the interference of self-induction in a cable that is only running a few amps max. No, you cannot. Forget it. just forget it.
Does your cable sound different? I'm sure it does!
Does that have anything to do with the principles you tlked about? I seriously doubt it.
Does it sound better? That is 100% up to you.
Can you charge lots of money for your cables? Ofcourse! The are always people who know less about how low-frequency electricity works than you so you can always find people that you can convince with an irrelevant experiment on a youtube video.
hell, I've had people offer me stickers to stick on the side of my speaker cabinets to make it sound better. Rocks to put on top of the transformer to "balance it out". And yes, they all claimed to know exactly how it worked and that it made things sound better.
Don't talk about science if you're not going to show the science. Show that your cable makes an AUDIBLE difference in a double-blind test with a hundred people and have them all agree that your cable sounds better. THAT is science.
100% truth.
Thanks mate
Actually, real science would be to perform a null test against other way cheaper cables of the same length, and when the sound cancels out and leaves only silence, understand that they won't make a difference to the sound
Wait, he did show the science. At 8:15 "the low peak is at 60dB, original peak is at 97dB, so we are about 50dB down" 🤣 Now, that's science !
There is a guy on TH-cam who does a blind test and gets it right. Also, you admit cables do affect the sound. So to what do you ascribe the differences to?
I would like to see a listening test between high quality speaker wires vs high quality powerline filters.
It would be awesome for this time spent on "cables" to be spent on demos of the complete catalog you offer.
Graphs etc prove parts and placement for sure, but ears are anecdotal transducers.
To each their own.
How do your speaker cable sets you apart from Kimber Kable. If I understand the angle of intersection?
I need Amir. Right now. To be fair, I like both of these men. Danny is a good dude. They should join forces
I would be glad to have him over.
@@dannyrichie9743 that would be awesome!
As ordered: th-cam.com/video/TVCmPrDthlE/w-d-xo.html :)
@@dannyrichie9743 I hope you are monetizing this series, because you've drawn out all of the ASmiR folks like flies to shit. They are trolling you to drive traffic to The Science Channel. Let's not encourage them.
The flat earth folks needed a leader. Looks like they have asr.
I have been using my ears since the 80's when I buy cables, never thought about what you show us.
Thank you for the insight and the enlightenment of speaker cables, Danny.
What if the wires are insulated? I have made braided non braided. Could not hear a darn bit of difference. What about the cables in the speaker cabinet? Those should be braided also? Tried both. No difference...so back to my piont. If the wires are insulated does that not reject re re interference? Greatt video on showing how coil orientation matters
I was 15 knowing nothing about Science of cables. But I could hear a tone in my speakers that was not part of the music. Having little money at that age and all ready discovered different wires single or multiple strands copper or steel or close or separated using my father’s and grandfather scrap wires in the garage using my ears 👂 and the power meter on the radio signal strength meter I found the best wires for the AM & FM Signal.
I had Old used speakers from a very old system paper cone speakers. At the time at that age I knew nothing about speaker efficiency that those used old speakers came from a system in an era where speakers had to be very efficient to work on low powered amps. So my speakers were naturally super sensitive to any kind of electrical input and you can hear it with your ears even though they were salvaged from an old system decades earlier and thrown into a big open box that I made as a young teenager with no knowledge of crossovers or speaker enclosure design.
So when I noticed the tone not part of the music playing through my speakers when I moved my wires around in the back of the system I finally figured out it was coming from and into the speaker wires being close to other wires or even the aluminum window frame of the window.
That’s when I went back down to the garage to get my grandfathers and my fathers different types of wires and started switching out wires until the noise went away and that’s when I discovered I can hear the difference in musical instruments by switching wires types and materials.
But I was a kid with the hearing ability to hear a TV turn on with no sound on , just electronics high-pitched tone while walking in the street through the walls or windows of houses as I’m walking outside. Can hear a wristwatch ticking stuffed inside a rolled up sock hidden underneath the clothes in a dresser drawer across the room. Can hear bugs walking. I definitely can hear the difference that the materials and make up of wires on music to make.
But now at 56 and have a slight case of tinnitus years of working with loud IMPAC hammers and wrenches in a mechanic shop my hearing starts rolling out at 12,000 Hz and totally deaf after 15,000 Hz. But surprisingly in extreme cases I can still hear the difference on really high and very resolving systems cables still make a difference with my bad hearing. In the soundstage and the depth and the resolving revealing of details within the frequency band I can still hear.
But on a big box store high volume cheap system AV receivers under $2000 system I really can no longer hear any difference because the system does not have the ability to magnify the difference.
Some people are lucky they were born without the ability to hear tone difference in here fine details in sound they’re lucky because they don’t have to spend any money on good speakers they don’t have to spend any money on cables or high and systems because they don’t even possess the ability to hear the difference they should consider themselves lucky at not having to spend ungodly amount hour of time and money because they’re basically Deaf to find tones.
The science a 15 year old can even figure out and hear
Old TVs would always bug me as a child, high pitched sound they made drove me nuts. It was nkce when flat screen came along. I have an above average system and have made many different types of speaker cables and never hear any repeatable difference that could be proven with blind tests. If it really is the case these cables are only the 1% I guess.
I remember those days.. when the tv was on, I could hear everyone in the house moving through doorways, hallways, and in front of the TV, etc because that high pitched sound of the tv changes whenever people move around
@@maxlee6676 exactly, the same as a bat 🦇 uses sound to locate objects by the way it reflects.
Humans do the same thing. But some people can not hear 👂 it or if they do their brains have not been programmed in train to pick it up and noticed a difference.
Exactly the same some people can hear the difference of cables make when switched on speaker and some people cannot.
Some people can hear the difference between electrolytic capacitors and thin film capacitors and some people cannot.
Some people are colorblind and some people are not.
Some people can run their finger over a bill and can tell if it’s a $10 bill or a one dollar bill and some people cannot
The people who have no ability to hear the differences in find music should consider herself lucky they will save a lot of money because they just need a $20 a.m. radio call that good as gold sound to them.
Instead they go around claiming anything beyond that nobody can hear the difference because they have no ability to sense of hearing.
As if I was born color blind and I went around claiming to all the people who see color they are all liars and there is no difference they’re making it up placebo effect in their head that the color red and blue exist.
Flat Earthers
@@coldfinger459sub0 I have been on a panel of listeners on blind tests. One cable changed, recording replayed, and everyone on the panel heard the same change at the same time and said "woah". There was a big difference and the expensive cable lost this round. Not placebo when 6 people here the same change. When I was younger I would walk into jewelry stores and those ultasonic motion detectors would drop me to my knees. People would say "You are not supposed to hear that, it is above the range of human hearing". A gift or a curse, one wonders....
@@zulumax1 I have to25 foot long speaker cables that I bought from RadioShack when I was about 15 years old. They were lost for decades and re-found in my mom’s basement several years ago the rubber plastic vinyl that was clear is now semi translucent and was very sticky and Gummy deteriorating but I cleaned it off with alcohol to get rid of that stickiness.
The copper that you can clearly see inside has turned all green and flaky and corroded.
I clean the ends and used it as an A.B. test just for that very reason believe it or not expensive does not mean better , you are correct.
Nobody can ever replicate or reproduce that green corroded flaky oxidized copper , insulating deterioration RadioShack 10 gauge speaker wire is priceless. That is 41 years old
Awesome way to explain, thank you
Great demo, thanks
Here's the thing...
If RF were a problem in speaker cables, then you would want to couple the noise into both conductors to get the highest common mode coupling levels possible. But with your cross hatched cables, there would be a higher tendency not to couple the 'noise' evenly into both conductors, the way you would with a field next to some twin lead. You know, common mode rejection, really low load impedance, your chasing ghosts here.
For your commercial installation example, EMI coupled from the speaker cable and through the amplifier. Yes, stuff like that can occur, but the problem can be addressed more easily with a full understanding of the problem and not by placing false blame on the problem.
Well if RF is not a problem, then what is all the fuss over? Are we creating an issue which has no merit and perceiving a problem that needs solving, which is a non issue? This is what I call snake oil, or magic elixir. Ignorance is a great sales tool to the salesperson with just a little bit of knowledge. Oldest trick in the book, that is why we need something to measure or test. If it sounds different and tests the same, we are measuring the wrong thing.
@@zulumax1 Yes, in this case, snake oil and GR Research will be dismissive and call me a flat earther. All of these things have to be tested blind with better than 80% correct results. Decades ago, I did a blind test of Belden rubber jacketed industrial appliance cable to my brother's elite audiophile cable that was comprised of several flat cables made up of twisted pairs. We did one channel driven and a switchbox that alternated the cables. Lengths were about the same. it was a dead heat. There was no 'one is better than the other'.
Love your work Danny, you could talk to me all day about spectral decay and polly caps but my brain will not allow me to believe this speaker wire stuff.
Do you think that running two Litz cables like you show, side by side will affect each other in a way that we can hear?
If speaker wires made a huge difference, it would be on display at Best Buy. You can hear different speakers and look at different TV's, but for some reason they never have the same speakers set up with different cables so you can hear the difference. Maybe Monster Cable just doesn't have the marketing budget.
You won't hear the differences in cables hooked up to a display at Best Buy. You need to watch Episode 4.
@@dannyrichie9743 So the difference between a $1 cable and a cable 20 times as expensive is so small that you won't be able to tell in the store? If you told me that $100 speakers and $2,000 speakers could only be identified in specific situations, then I would buy the $100 speakers.
@@Clint3571 Watch the next video. It answers this question.
Your channel its great. You open my eyes and teach me so much. Thank you for sharing teory and know how. You have made a huge contribution to my audio world. Salute you from Argentina!
So to actually have this effect in practice, you will need a very, very powerful audio amplifier[1] that powers a coil and a silent speaker.[2][ (or you would hear that speaker). This coil has to end up somehow on top of you audio cable.[3]
*Now why would you do that?*
[1] Your audio cable has less windings than the coil that was connected to the tweeter. Probably one versus hundreds. This means that a much higher magnetic field is necessary for the same effect. Now you are already using a full power amplifier signal in the first coil here. So you need a much bigger coil and a much bigger amplifier to have the same effect on a cable of 1mm2 or thicker.
[2] If that other speaker with other music or noise is not silent, you would hear that speaker instead of your tweeter in this experiment
[3] The transfer diminishes _at least_ with the square of the distance
This is to illustrate the effects of fields in the same plane or crossed. See more on it here. th-cam.com/video/_rWLCSx0Zuw/w-d-xo.html
@@dannyrichie9743 Again, the situation is different than the average home situation.
In a venue, an old-style cut-off dimmer - the only option in the seventies and if you're low on budget - gives _a lot of interference._ Microphones are very sensitive for this and cables at line signal levels. You can easily single out mixers with bad output stages (not or not actually balanced) that are more sensitive for this interference if your multi-cable runs together with the dimmer cable for 10 meters. But this is all on signal level with relatively high impedance. A signal out is often a few to hundreds of ohms, which indeed causes it to be sensitive for parasitic capacity (for instance by shielding or putting it in a metal gutter) and reception of external signals. Using good balanced cables helps, but does not fix everything.
However, I have _never_ experienced this problem with _speakers._ The impedances involved are simply too low and the power levels too high when compared to the interference. Naturally, I assume we are using modern voltage-source amplifiers and that we're using reasonable speaker cable (not shielded, just thick enough). I guess a valve amplifier with a relatively high output impedance might suffer from the interference.
So again: what situation are you describing. If your listening room is a circus of light with old-style dimmers and old-style amplifiers and speakers and you keep al wires close together: YES, you have a problem. But why would you?
As to the "sounding" of the cables: if two cables are perfect they should sound exactly the same. In repeated, double-blind tested circumstances. "Nor I tried this new cable" does not even come close.
Of course, if you convince yourself this 100$/m cable sounds better: go for it. It _will_ sound better, because you expect it to sound better, because that is the way our brains work. And that is fine. You make someone a living and enjoy yourself. That is absolutely okay. Just stop pretending it is "science" or "truth".
Ignore the man behind the curtain!
@@TheEmmef I've had lots of people come over with the expectation and belief that all speaker cables sound the same only to have their belief systems completely flipped within a few seconds of listening. And the real truth is that the cables do indeed sound different, and some distinctly better than others.
@@dannyrichie9743 it can be that cables sound different, and you find one sounding better than another. However, if two perfect cables sound different, at least one of them is _not_ perfect. See below why. If you hook up two pretty decent cables: you won't notice if you really setup a good comparison. See below why. Does it matter? Hell no. If you find one cable sound "better" than another, at least one of them is imperfect. _Choose the one you like._ Apparently there are a lot of _really bad_ cables out there if you can hear the difference. That tells you something about the state of "high-end" audio.
*Why perfect cables all sound the same*
An ideal amplifier behaves as a voltage source that has _zero impedance,_ call it resistance if you like. Speakers are designed for a voltage source. To meet their design criteria, the speaker terminals should ideally be connected directly to the amplifier terminals, _as if there was no cable._ Naturally, no cable is impractical in many ways. So we use cables. It would be ideal if the cable behaves _as if it was not there._ Because then it does not change the sound in any way.
Now, a second, different but also perfect cable, also does not change the sound. _The result is that two perfect cables sound _exactly the same._
It also means that if one cable sounds different than another: _at least one of them is not perfect._
You can debate which cable sounds "better", but that is subjective. Tube amplifiers sound "better" because the inaccuracy they introduce (from the back of my head: second-harmonic distortion) sounds "warm" in a beautiful way. They are by no means perfect, but definitely likeable!
*How the human mind plays around with hearing*
And you underestimate the effects your mind has on hearing, for examples expectations, what happened before or the weather. It really matters. However, if you perform a double-blind testing repetitively and in a relatively small amount of time, you will not find a difference with two different, but very good cables. No one does that, however, as such a setup requires quite some expertise. And experts that know how to do such things, know that if the impedance of the cable is, say, a factor of hundred lower than the speaker impedance: you won't need to do the experiment. Thick cables, not too close together and not too long helps. And from my experience in PA I know that those cable won't be picking up audible interference from even old dimmers.
You basically showed how a transformer works and that cable geometry affects magnetic field direction. Nobody winds their speaker cables into coils designed to create a magnetic field. This doesn’t explain why you need to buy 1000s of dollars of speaker cable. By the way, an oscilloscope is an observation and is not equivalent to licking a wire. You are observing the real signal in a visual manner.
Yes it’s very dramatic! I think the reason people make videos showing these cable affects is to sell thousands of dollars worth of cables. I guess you can apply this knowledge to any cables?
Truly demonstrated how a trafo.. works.....😉😉😉IF THAT coil was done with real speaker cable/ power cable... 🙄🙄🙄🙄 no transformer action would be seen😂😂😂
Ok,I got some information about inductors and the parts he used,yet I just never got anything about interconnects and what they do to MUSIC.For one thing,the average person does not take resources and set up a room to sit in one place,and listen to a few genres of recordings.People who have a life,have things to do,and unless you live alone,with no children,no spouse,your spaces have been allocated for other things.Next,we have to take into account the music sources,our power sources,and our overall budgets.
I listen sometimes,I spin vinyl,I play CDs,I have specialty vinyl,and I have live instruments.Currently,I use my computers a LOT of hear music,because it's just not vital to turn on a whole sound system,to listen to TH-cam music.Add to that,MOST of the world listens to compressed formats,some use BEATS headphones and others like them,some use earbuds and smartphones/tablets.I went from studio monitors and my second set,and now I listen on computers and my soundbar connected to my 'smart' TV.My point is that in your house,you run things,and if it works for you,sounds better to you,to have Krell,Moon,Dalquist,MaIntosh,Sony.Realistic,Legacy,$400 inteconnects,$4000 speaker cables,then it is the best,that you care about.
I used to attend clubs and have spun in clubs,and I have NEVER heard anyone complain about the strings on a bass,the speaker wires from one system to another,nor have anything else subjective.I think we know can agree on if a system sucks,sounding like mud,rumbling,buzzing,and annoying our ears.Now from this content though,I am still not sure what that experiment has to do about the difference between my Vampire Wires,and the custom Red cables I got near my house many years ago.I still do not know why my Mogami sounds a bit better than a Hosa,connected to my instruments.Last but not least,I live on Planet Earth, so I dare anyone to debate with me about some damn cables they are NOT paying for...Good luck with that...
Proof? You need to find yourself a dictionary buddy! This is nonsense masquerading as sense.
Its not even well disguised.
I like this one but I'm still waiting a video on front port vs rear port pros and cons please
Many amplifier designs have bridged outputs, so the speaker wires have a balanced signal. Any induced interference is likely to cancel. And if interference does cause a problem, the voltage running through speakers will be magnitudes higher. The lower level-input cables are where you want to spend time and money to reduce interference since the signal amplitudes are lower. I don’t think we need to reinvent speaker wire.
Mate, you've just made a coil from those messy crossed wires.... Now I would worry about it!
I believe that cables nowadays are pretty good even if you buy cheap speaker cable. You should have pretty good speakers before there is any point in spending a lot of money on cables. if you do not have good sound then it is not just a matter of changing the cord and then you have good sound. It is m uch else that has a much greater impact on the sound than speaker cables!
@Douglas Blake I did not quite understand what you meant by what you wrote.
(The Haed lesson)?
Perfect explanation.
So it makes sense to arrange the inductors for minimum coupling in a crossover. Thanks for the tip, l will do it.
That is something Danny explains in almost all of his videos. And he is 100% right and every electrical engineer agrees with him.
@@edgar9651 Whats being demonstrated here is common crossover knowledge. It gets gets Danny point across... but speaker wire doesn't have such extreme coupling issues as two inductors in close proximity. Could easily be solved by pulling your zip cord apart so the conductors aren't in close parallel. Or just make speaker wire out of ethernet, much cheaper per foot.
@@iowaudioreviews
Neither of those actions will improve the performance on the whole. The gauge and resulting conductance of ethernet wire is too low, though it could work well in some very low-current systems. Now, separating the conductors in lamp cord greatly increases inductance, greatly lowering high frequency response, and also by geometry greatly reduces both EM and RF common mode noise rejection. If you want to see how cheap wire can be well constructed for high currents, look at the ~$2/ft Wireworld cross section. Braiding, especially about central tube, is a really good method. Shunyata expands on that advantage with additional conductors in their fanciest cables.
Now, one thing Danny doesn't mention here is how strand-to-strand conductance creates multiple modes of electron flow. That is mostly solved with correct counter-rotation of twisted, stranded conductor bundles. (P.S. Blue Jeans cables have this WRONG.) Hopefully he will address that and the obvious advantage of very low external B fields of ribbon inductors. The great Alex Gibson of FMS cables decades ago said to me: "Cables are 95% geometry and 5% materials."
I've used SVHS cable for Audio in the past which has two individual shielded signal wires. It works great but is fiddly and delicate to attach RCA connectors
Just use a coaxial cable with f-connectors to rca. It's very easy to make. This is overkill for audio.
So why doesn't he just do ABX tests and null tests?
Who says I haven't?
@@dannyrichie9743 If you've done them, why all the tangential talk about antennas and inductors?
Because neither of those two things will show the claimed differences. When you have to dance around with inductors and AM Tuners to laughably attempt to sell people speaker wire kits, you've already lost.
Stay tuned. More to come.
He keeps his test results on the dark side of the moon. Anyone is welcome to go through them and check.
Million dollar question......don't the cables of the drivers of the line arays going to the crossovers pick RF , electromagnetic waves etc.....why do u use just normal simple thin gauge cables and u don't use these?
It's up to you... Sure hard working people change everything with different solution & combination for each speakers.
Only u set where to stop the work.
It's not about wire thickness - it's about wire proximity to other wires which influences inductance coupling. He's teaching us all about orientation of wire pairs (or 12 pairs in the case of the 8 gauge wire) that are right next to each other. Remember, on the floor and behind the audio rack there are all kinds of wires in close proximity to each other, so this filtering is essential to the highest Fidelity because the branding is the key. This is where most of the RMI & EMI's will be filtered out. His crossover designs, as we've seen, also account for that... And then, within the speaker cabinet, there are just a few single wires that aren't really next to any other wire, so inductance coupling should not be a problem there as well. At least, this is what I've learned from Danny. Corrections or confirmation anyone?
@@nickburak7518 No. Speaker cable is non-insulated, so it like a long piece of shorted metal...each individual strand can freely conduct to any other individual strand in speaker wire. This is it's job, to deliver power. An inductor like shown in the video is constructed totally different, it is a big coil of tiny --insulated wire--...because of it's construction and use of insulation on the wire it's inductance is very very high (that's why it's called an inductor haha). In a speaker wire laid out mostly flat, there is virtually no inductance...rather capacitance with any parallel conductors in the primary effect and that also is pretty infinitesimal in lamp-cord style speaker wires.
because a lot of electronic uneducated people prefer to waste their money on this junk because somebody said its good
@@PhuckHue2 Yep. I got my degree in electronics and most of this is an anxiety disorder causing people to perceive differences that absolutely don't exist. I've seen a 3 dollar hosa cable put on an oscope and it was dead flat from 0-200khz. There is just nothing a cable can do to contribute to the frequency response until we start talking about 1000 meters of it or something like that. That isn't the same though as a guitar cable though which will start sounding different after 15 ft.
Even I can follow this. Thanks!
GR-Research. I think all you are measuring is differences in amplitude of the signal rather than differences in frequency response so the only differences the changes you make should produce are changes in volume.
So "noise" can permeate our cable. But how much of that noise is amplified? It should be easy to hear the noise all by itself, if it exists, by turning up the volume on any input. I think you'd have to go up and cup your ear to the drivers to hear the differences in various cable changes. But you'd be unlikely to hear it from a normal listening position with music at midway levels. That last measurement you made with the coils probably represents the real-world levels at which the cable world is splitting hairs. Sure, it's measureable, but at an almost totally inaudible level.
Nope this stuff is very audible and differences easily heard. More coming...
The whole point of listening to higher quality components is to recreate the sound stage . If the recording is 100% then everything in the system has to be 100%. If your power source is noisy and your components can't filter out that noise you have to call the power company and or an electrician to start. Can we get some price per performance components. Like a good receiver a good amplifier good cables and show us some price points.
i have the exact same speaker cable as you do.it sounds crisp and clear.much better than my van damme cables.
*More* proof? We haven’t had any.
I think that we disagree on what “proof” means, Danny.
I'm confused why everyone is challenging Danny. So you heard the white noise tones, yes? Do you think he made those up? Do you think the measurements on the graph were made up or unrelated to the tones we heard?
He's teaching us about inductance coupling. The inductor orientations represent the speaker wire orientations (from braiding to non-braiding). He does not need to switch between the wires. We can understand how one inductor oriented at 90° is very effective. That's exactly what the braided speaker wire will achieve. No?
@@nickburak7518 he said “more proof”. Until now, he hadn’t presented any at all.
Listen up - Danny is selling cables. If he wants me to change my mind and buy *his* product too, he’s going to have to do a LOT of convincin’.
Have you even seen this video?
th-cam.com/video/dLghg0QXPzs/w-d-xo.html
@@nickburak7518 But he fails to show that any of that actually effects or is even relevant to what you hear when actually using wires as speaker cables. He is showing random known things about the properties of wire, not that ANY of that is relevant to whether a $500 super thick insulated speaker wire sounds more "open" than a standard 12g or 14g copper cable. You are leaping to the conclusion that somehow inductance is having some micro effect on what you hear. I don't know about you, but I don't connect inductors to my speaker cables. Nor do I tightly coil them. What he did show, is that you obviously don't stack your inductors in a crossover. And that's the problem with all of these videos. He is showing various attributes of wire that are known and real, but so what? That's literally what every one is arguing in these comments.
If inductance is such a problem, and as he's shown it IS measurable, then measure it on two different speaker cables while in use. Why do some other irrelevant demonstration?
I'm open to the idea, up to a point, that the construction of a cable might effect the sound, but these demonstrations are distractions.
@@redstang5150 Well the proof is sometimes something that you have to make the effort to find, even if it comes down to learning with an open mind and understanding that the speaker is a teacher and not a salesperson.
It's not about the price of the wire, or what it's made of or how thick it is. Nor is is about XO assembly. That's not what this video is about. Most of the viewers cannot overcome that he used coils to demonstrate the power of strand orientation because they want to see Danny use the cables to show the power of strand orientation. Thats something that you need to understand. That's why Danny did that. It's not about insulation or sleeving technology. That's what is being misunderstood. It's about the natural filtration that goes on when the wires cross over each other at angles approaching 90°. Certainly you can't make a 90° rotation in the cables as there would be no dimension in the length, but maybe they are criss-crossing at 30 to 45° - even 10° I bet would be significant.
I'm sure that you can think on that. I'm not trying to argue; it's simply that I understand how simply perfect the video was.
@@nickburak7518 What on earth are you talking about? This video series is about ONE thing - why (the quality of) speaker cables matter! And that implies that a more expensively constructed wire will somehow outperform a competently constructed inexpensive wire IN A TANGIBLE WAY. We all want to know. Therefore to show that they do, you have to be presented with a reasoned argument and some evidence that is relative to what you are trying to show. I could make lots of analogies to what Danny is doing here; i.e. by showing real properties of an attribute of an item, yet not showing AT ALL how those properties are relevant when they are actually used in the intended use case. Ok, so it is already well known that inductance exists in coils. Super. The question is if that matters and how it could potentially interfere with how a straight cable sounds. You can't simply infer that because it exists in scenario A that it must negatively effect the completely different scenario B.
I'll repeat it again. Everyone totally understands what he is demonstrating here. What people are questioning is whether it is relevant to the goal.
And no, the speaker IS a salesperson. Others can argue about whether he is being genuine, but you can't forget that he and all the "experts in the industry" that are his sources have a vested interest in getting people to believe that buying their cable will make their speakers sound better. My mind is open. I'm DYING for some real, relative evidence here, but we haven't gotten any yet.
Hahah that's funny! The high pass cell of any 2nd order crossover filter has an inductor in parallel with the tweeter. The same applies for the woofer, where in thic case the inductor is in series with the speaker, but the output impedance of the amp makes it like it was in parallel with it. The effect of induction on the inductors of the crossover filter are for sure orders of magnitude stronger than those in the speaker interconnects (you haven't proven it here, but take it for granted). This means that if there can be any audible affect of induced current in the speaker system (which there isn't, unless your system is next to an IMR scanning machine perhaps, LOL), is due to the induction picked up by the inductors in the crossover filter, and very much negligibly in comparison, to the induced current in teh speaker wires.
What... no gold plated alligator clips??? This test is officially invalid.
All gold plated gear sounds better,we all know that..jeez...That's called super audio..
One of my questions would be, is there something within their hearing that doesn't allow them hear properly. Or could be simply be set so strong in their ways that doesn't make any difference whats being said.
@Douglas Blake well but think about one thing, u live in your house and ur ears are adjusted to the noise and echoes and reverberations in your house or room, u can even hear when when u walk from room to room or from room to a hole way or stairs etc how the sound changes, think about how much time u spend in ur own space and how ur brain decides to ignore the things u constantly hear and then think about if there is any small difference if u could hear it in your listening space, i bet u can! what u measure is sine wave and frequency sweeps? does that tell u anything about the interaction between ur speakers and room acoustics? even the slightest change can have an effect on the acoustic response of ur speakers in the environment ur used to hearing them, also music isnt a frequency sweep neither a sine wave test, the best way to measure is what u hear from ur speakers with two microphone at your listening position, why? cause music and sound is really complex with multiple frequencies at the same time and not just a simple sine wave, so far no one actually did any measurements of a WHOLE system well set up in a good room with all cheap cables from the wall to the speakers and compare the same system with higher quality cables through out and measure again, i bet there is something to be find.....
@Douglas Blake lol well I'm speaking ur language not mine so i guess ur nowhere near my level in my language anyway... yes it's been done alot but not for this purpose, it's just funny how always people with no experience seem to know all the science behind things, one question for you, did u ever try any expensive cables or ur just guessing it makes no difference cause of some science no one actually understands apparently so far, and also if the science behind measurements is so absolute why not take a trip way back to basics and ask the question "what is an electron and how does it look like" if u find any conclusive information on that then we can say that what we measure is real, but since we don't even know what's under our feet then how do we walk...
@Will so what is an electron then? Describe it if u understand it
@Will lol well, but no one actually knows what and how an electron looks like or is, were just imagining things don't we, if you can't trust your hearing how can u trust measurements...
@Will lol well that link doesn't describe anything nor it shows any scientific proof of anything, the point is we cannot measure what we don't fully understand, simple as that, if people don't do practice is simply not science, same as practice vs theory is almost never as the theory suggests..
Danny, I'm enjoying this series; thank you, Sir. I appreciate what you do.
I've noticed a few guys out in the TH-cam sphere with AP analyzers have a perpetual boner and obnoxious chip on their shoulder for the audio enthusiast community. The religion has quite a large following; I don't get it. They sure like to let everyone know ad nosism they have an AP analyzer. I think it would be more productive if the I-woke-up-with-a-negative-disposition crowd with a case of chronic sullenness could redirect their energy to better the audio hobby.
next try speaker cables instead of inductors in a crossover
This is a 100% ridiculously pointless test, it has everything to do with a coil of wire with power flowing through it, I.E. an electro magnet, setting next to a coil of wire connected to a speaker... Everyone that has passed a basic electronics course knows that a magnetic field near a coil wires can generate a current...which is all this test shows, it has nothing to do with speaker cables at all. What you are displaying is EM transference, also known as inductive coupling, not RF.....
also, can't what is shown in the test be taken care of with component shielding and also shielding the crossover from the outside world? Amir, of Audio Science Review tested the RF idea, in wires and according to what he measured, the RF isn't perceivable because it is beyond our range of hearing. I still wonder if the ultra high frequencies of RF could impart a "character" to the electrical flow. Of course there are other things that could disrupt the electrical flow, as well... The question is, unless you are listening to planar magnetics or electrostatics, could you even hear it, with say a paper cone, if the inaudible RF is imposing itself on the electrical flow ("sound")?? I am just not sure if it is even audible on audio "devices" with higher moving mass. A paper cone, vs. a planar magnetic diaphragm = two different worlds..
Absolutely amazing. For some reason this makes so much sense to me even though my knowledge base is minimal.
You, my friend, are this guy's PERFECT victim.
From now on, I'm going to wear a tin foil hat when listening to music ... I don't want RF interference in my ears.
I plan to sell those hats for $1,000 apiece ... get'em before the price goes up folks! 😜
It's a antenna or a filter. Guess someone should call the power company and ask what they are using for conductors?
Someone explain this to me. If my speaker cables are indeed picking up unwanted noise (RF and what not) and if it is indeed audible, then I should hear that noise even if my system is on standby (meaning amp and source turned on but nothing playing) correct/no? Yet I put my ears inches away from my speakers and they are dead silent.
I always go after these guys pushing magic cables. Usually end up being told my system isn't gold enough to resolve the improvement.... I guess these cables aren't for everyone. I've done the same thing and my system isn't ridiculously but it isn't cheap crap. Hok up some basic zip cord toss it out on the floor over some power cords and whatever. System on, nothing playing crank it up and nothing..... These EMI and RF frequencies being picked up by the cable must only effect things while music is playing.... what about the wires inside the speaker cabinet.... if I moved to the Alaskan Klondike can I use regular cables since theres no interferance up there. Probably cost less than Dannys system.
Correct. So with your particular system and EMI/RFI situation, you need not worry that you should make a change to your cables.
You won't hear the noise itself so much. What is heard is what it does and how it effects the audio signal. Tune into the next episode and I will go over it more.
@@dannyrichie9743 You bet. Like I stated before I may disagree but I'm willing to hear ya out.
Yes, despite what Danny claims, you would HAVE to hear some sort of noise if any of this were an audible issue. The fact that you don't is all the proof you need to know that this is a crock. If it wasn't obvious by all the convoluted "experiments" being performed in a bad attempt to imply that something unexplained is an issue, when he could just as easily actually measure the two cables, the the fact that you hear nothing but silence in your system is all you need to know.
If you turn your speakers on and hear an AM radio station then you have a different problem that nothing Danny is trying to sell you is going to fix.
Hello Danny, I didn’t care much for Audio Science Review website, especially the followers of ACR (I don’t like conflict) which is why I hardly visited the site.
Audio Science Review is now on TH-cam. I really wanted to hate Amir guts, but to my surprise he comes across as a nice well intentioned person and like you tries to bring clarity to us users on the audio product that we love and like to use (can’t fault or hate that).
I think the truth lies somewhere in between the data and measurement and the actually building testing and listening.
Stay safe,
Brian
Frosty C. Danny is right on point. The science is clear and you don't need measurements on paper to prove it. Nevertheless he provides meaningful measurements and - most importantly - the hearing test. There is no truth 'somewhere in the middle" as you say. Simply put, wire orientation matters. End of story. Otherwise you would be going up against titans like Kimber Kable and Audioquest if you disagree with Danny. It's these guys who know what they are talking about, not the guys here in Commentsville.
@@davidlong1786 David. I'm sorry to see that you are jaded by the sales pitch. I don't trust salespeople so much as I can toss my trash. I'm tired of it, too. That's why I do my own research. Here's the thing. Most salespeople don't know anything. If I have even a slightly technical question for any reason, most salespersons (I'd like to say 'all of them') of any kind can't help me. I'm the expert and I tell them to take it to the cash. I think and they do. That's how I am. But sometimes I need their help. What then? Research. Watch this video: th-cam.com/video/_rWLCSx0Zuw/w-d-xo.html
This guy is what to you? A salesperson? He better be - he's the CEO. But is the quality of his products in question? Absolutely not. Are his products too expensive for you? Ah, that's a different story. Sales people are meant to sell product. You want a job? You have to sell yourself. Honesty and science isn't enough - the product must be advertised. It's not such a bad thing. But what if the sales person knows what he's talking about, the product top shelf and the deal is a good one, even if it's 10x more than you'd ever pay? You may not care. You may not understand. You may not be able to tell the difference. You may want to spend your money on something else. Same for everything, but sometimes good stuff is overlooked. Often, that's the way it always will be.
Lol, look at our affordable speaker cables...omg. 3 foot = rouglhy 1 meter. That makes about 40 dollars a meter. Meaning, if you need 3 meter per side, makes it 240 dollar. Then you are not ready, nonono, you must do the connections yourself. Bi-wiring, bi amping? Kajing, the doubler bonus , 480 dollars!. Can you define affordable ? Have cables here, pure copper, 8 dollar the meter x5 x2, at 80 dollars and i am king ;-) (thank god they not invented triple-amping/wiring....yet). But i must admit; if i bought these kind of fancy cables, with argb leds, jewelry patrons, twisted, etc.etc. i surely would take a extra meter and lay them IN FRONT of my stereo, with standoffs ofcourse. Look bro, aren't they gorgious to look at! And the sound! Amazing!
"his" cables are sold on ALie-Express for much less.
I think cables make a difference but only if you have the rest of your system at a high level. Some people spend thousands of dollars on cables but only spend a $1 on room treatment.
Speaker cables MAY make a difference depending on a given situation of equipment, cable layout, EMI/RFI field strength, and personal sensitivity. It doesn't depend on the sophistication or cost of an audio system, a Radio Shack system can be influenced by EMI/RFI in an audible way, although a small amount of EMI/RFI field strength may well go unnoticed in a low-end system but noticed by a person with a large expense and interest in the sound.
@@StewartMarkley I said a high level and that does not always mean high cost.
@@r423sdex Only progressives think like that .lol
Thank you for demonstrating why the positioning of inductors in a crossover construction is important. The cable issue is still more about psychoacoustics than science, but that arguement will rage until the end of time or for as long as companies make lots of money selling cables.
Nice to hear a compliment go to Danny. So far I've read far more "I don't believe you, Danny" comments than anything positive. But, what can be heard (a reduction in inductance coupling) is science. Maybe Danny cannot provide you with any more proof 'scientifically speaking', like as in numbers and formulas than this, but it's more than enough for me. I guess I'm the odd man out, but this is often the case with people who understand something that's different or difficult to understand.
@@nickburak7518 I may have complimented Danny on the stuff he does around crossover optomisation it adds value - the cable sounds "better" issue is all smoke and mirrors and adds nothing to his credibility.
@@sorepaws Yeah, I get that compliment. That video got the discussion going alright!
Nicely explained my mate...... Antony Warrington
Hey Antony. You and I seem to be in the minority of appreciating Danny's work. Most brains may not be trustworthy, but Danny's is.
Explained inductance coupling with inductors, funny when you put them close to each other they induct each other, hope you weren't surprised. Good thing even basic speaker wire doesn't behave this way. Cause if you wound 20ft of it into spools the result would be different. Typical stereo setups in home use wire runs are under 20ft, inductance between parallel conductors isn't an issue in this use case. You can avoid inductance coupling just by pulling the zip cord apart and keepkng the pos/neg an inch apart. But nobody does this cause its not an issue. Most of what I've read or tested resistance has the most audible effect. The EMI and RF this braided cable may be filtering out isn't audible to humans. If you believe this cable you will need some to replace the wire INSIDE your speakers as well. Make sure ALL your other cables are shielded as well, without consistency its null. Also many high end shielded cables from well known brands fail independent testing. Hopefully the next video has some actual proof. If it cant be measured or quantified its bogus. If this really works and has an effect 23awg sllid core CAT6a is much cheaper by the foot and should be just as effective.
@@iowaudioreviews Thanks. Danny used a powerful tool (two inductors) to show what's happening in speaker wire when it's proximal to other wires and radio signals (dunno how serious he was about the radio signals example, because, after all, there is no radio tuner connected to the XO, right?). But speaker wire doesn't act powerfully like the coils. Correct? So the discussion is moot. If there was any noise to be detected and shown on the screen, it would be so low as to not even inspire anyone to bother with the exercise of designing special wire to remove it. Am I catching your drift a little bit? Also, could you please help me to understand why Ray Kimber developed these cables in the first place then? Because as he said, he was trying to figure out how to remove the interferences in speaker wires in professional set-ups like concerts audio. I used to set up stage sound and never noticed any problems. Mind you, the wires were balanced and speakers were powered.
Some of us believe and have your back on this! Fun and informative.
Copper foil inductor vs air core. Noticeable difference? - Thanks!
Wow the comments are so aggressive, LOL, thank you for the Principal taught here, it seems people missed the point of the video. 👍
all theories and unrelated tests/measurements no blind listening tests with average subjects.
Just laying the ground work. More coming. Stay tuned.
Video number 3 without a double blind test of speaker cables. Come on Danny. How much power did you send to that coil? And did you send an RF signal or an audio signal? What did you prove with that test regarding speaker cables? Nothing! Nobody, especially no electrical engineer, doubts that cables act like an antenna and/or a filter. And most of us know how coils and transformers work. The question is if a tiny RF signal is enough change the output of a speaker which is connected to a big amplifier. Why don't you demonstrate that one? We are all waiting for that double blind test with an amp, two different speaker cables, and a speaker. I am sure you have all those things right next to you. Why don't you do that test and show us the difference? Double blind. Can you, the expert, reliably detect the difference between a good cable and a special super duper speaker cable? Show us!
Danny I found this demo very intriguing. Specifically it has repercussions on crossover layout. In my reply to Tesla Nick below I cite the subliminal signals that render a sound "faithful" which may be at -60dB (or even much less) like echo, decay, complex instrument harmonics and so-on. Your demo showed that even when fields of inductors are orthogonal to each other, there may be bleed-over which can be significant. I would suggest there needs to be a crossover builder's guide to minimizing this effect (by increasing physical separation), in order to heighten the fidelity of the speakers. Do you agree? It could be a rule of thumb (no two inductors nearer than 3" to each other and fields always orthogonal) or something more application-oriented based on the expected continuous RMS current and coil induction (mH) determining spacing. In any case you opened my eyes just how strong this can be. All the best, Rob
@Jeremy Yes, I can well imagine that is a good idea, since capacitors and inductors are microphonic. It would make crossover upgrades easier too! :-) All the best, Rob
Could you talk about why you use thicker wire TO the speaker, but a bit thinner wire WITHIN the speaker?
@Douglas Blake in any way, resitance does not change the tone of the sound, right? More resistance of the full signal means you hear the sound softer and need to crank up the gain to get the same soundpressure from your drivers.
Never heard differences between cables
Well, we don't know anything about your ears do we? So this is just free speech without adding anything.
@@theonoo totally true, just my experience I don't juge nor criticize.
With these subjects wars begins 😊
That was hugely informative! Thank you
Just read this review from Jason Victor Serinus in Stereophile reviewing some $8000 Sony speakers..... I also sought Carlsson's views on aftermarket power cords. "When we set up the SA-Z1s in our San Diego headquarters and at the 2019 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, we definitely heard an improvement using some high-end Kimber power cables and a Kimber USB-C cable from my MacBook," he told me. "It was definitely an audible upgrade."
Very nicely put.....
If you need 1750dollars of worth power cable to make a speaker sound superb, theres is something seriously wrong with the speakers to begin with (or the amp that powers the speakers)..
@@djmadrox7539 yes, but i dont know if it is really that simple. There is so much going with all the factors, influences and variables that go along with signal transmission and reproduction.
@@chrisbarnhart7944 Companies that sell this stuff i do not trust, do you? find: KIMBER KABLE: Do High-end USB Cables Make A Difference?
@@djmadrox7539 i trust my ears...... that is all i need.... served me well for 40 years in this hobby..
@@chrisbarnhart7944 www.soundguys.com/debunking-myths-about-audio-cables-13093/
what you hear is nothing more then a "fixed equalizer "... your ears are fooling you ...lol
I really appreciate the way you keep coming back to (calmly) share your thoughts on this. And for pointing out how simply we can all apply the scientific method to the cable question.
And "you might as well just be licking it or somethin'" was hilarious 🤣🤣🤣🤣
There's nothing scientific about this demo. If you don't believe me, write a paper covering the test and send it to the AES and see if it gets accepted. I can guarantee you, it won't.
@@4everB2 But you're the one suggesting it's a scientific demo, not me. Please don't put words in my mouth. What I'm commending Danny for is pointing out how simply we can all apply the method (ie. the only valid approach to answering the question of whether cables sound different is to listen).
No other experiment is a valid way to ascertain whether a given cable, with a specific set of a equipment, in a particular room, will sound different to a given person (we don't all have the same ears).
Measuring something else is a waste of time, as Danny has pointed out.
@@GrahamAtDesk Than this is all a bit confusing to say the least. If listening is the online valid approach, than why did we see some misleading measurements instead of a report of a controled listening test? This is a manipulative thing to do.
@@GrahamAtDesk But why are you playing with coils and not measure the cable itself?
One more thing: Speaker cables must be thick enough to handle high amperage, made of pure copper or silver and short enough to minimize resistance. That's what the good audio system needs.
AWG 14 cable can easily handle constant 1000W into 4ohm (and it could go up to 2500W) - I don't think amperage is an issue. Resistance is, you want thick and short just to keep resistance as low as possible. Cable resistance not only decreases the sensitivity of your system, but it also decreases damping factor.
@@tomkocurSeries resistance introduced by the cable is an order or two orders of magnitude lower than that of the inductor in series with either the low or low midrange driver present in a passive crossover. This and driver voice coil temperature rise under load, leading to increase in DC resistance are the two main factors responsible, not the cable itself.
Great, last time how to make a good RF antenna, now how to make a good transformer, when something cable?
Good video you should show how to make good speaker cable or at least what to buy.
I offer a couple of low cost DIY speaker cable kits.
Great explanation, Danny. Unfortunately a lot of people still won't get it, no matter what you do! Keep plugging away with the Science..........
So you think you proved that speaker cables make a difference by playing with the inductors and NOT swapping the speaker cables? That's like proving a different transmission in your car makes more horsepower by changing the tires. Sorry, this is NOT science.
r u being dense just to be a jerk? if you are unwilling to see the parallels here then you are not in the right place. current is current in a wire, it can pick up noise and transfer it. period. how many hi end cables have you a/b'd?
@@veroman007 I'm pretty sure it's you that is the dense one here, EM transference from an electro magnet into a coil of wires is simply inductive coupling and learned in freshman Highschool basic electronics, all this video shows is inductive coupling and shows absolutely no RF transference at all, had he laid that inductor next to speaker wires connected to that tweeter rather than an inductor, no noise would have been heard, Danny is a snake oil salesman that knows he has an uneducated audience, and he plays it very well to sell way overpriced sound deadening mats, crossover components and wires to simpletons that don't understand how he's lying to them....There are no parallels here between what was shown and what was claimed.
@@veroman007 The principles shown in the video have been known and measured for well over 100 years. That's why crossover networks use coiled wire and speaker cables run parallel. A simple, definitive test would have been to swap the speaker cables (with an audio amplifier driving them into a proper load impedance) and then watch the scope and listen. I suspect the difference would be so negligible that nobody would be able to see it or hear it. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. You might want to learn some basic electronics before putting your ignorance and lack of manners on full display.
Will it be the same with balanced XLR signal cables going from a "Steinberg UR242" to an active subw. who sends the signal out to aktive monitors !?
@Douglas Blake Phu...thanks a lot... !
You only have to look at Ethernet Cables to realize that is exactly how they eliminate crosstalk and EMI...That is why it is called "Twisted Pair"...
Not to mention that its about speaker cables, which from a signal standpoint have an impedance as low as 25mΩ once an amplifier is hooked up. The real source of interference is, and almost always will be, at the amplifier input. Thats where I would like to have the balanced audio. At the speaker terminals the high currents and low impedance means fairly high noise immunity. And from an electrical stand point, audio is just DC, so only have to worry mainly about wire resistance in normal runs.
@Douglas Blake Sorry, I meant that it behaves identically to DC for all intents and purposes electrically from the standpoint of your wires. Its not like, say 100MHz RF which then does all kinds of odd things when you try to stuff it through a random wire.
@Douglas Blake The overly pedantic might bring up the skin effect, but that will still be substantially less than the impedance from the cross-over and tweeter at 20kHz.
@Douglas Blake Lol yeah I was just thinking the same thing after I hit reply. Oh well...
Physicists and engineers know very well the importance of the order of magnitude. A relative "high" voltage, "low" frequency signal as the one that runs throw a speaker cable is VERY different from the low voltage, high frequency signal of an ethernet cable. It's almost as comparing oranges with apples.
I've "heard" cables before, but I've never "seen" cables before. Love it!