The problem may be that the blocks destroy a voxel that creates a ice chunk and that chunk glitches into the ship and destroys the internals at 21:58 you can see a chunk of ice stuck in the place the battery was.
I think you're going to need to build a series of heavy armor and blast door platforms to test this on reliably. Because Blast doors were designed to take the impact and Heavy armor has the highest (of the armor blocks) component cost by layering them like lasagna you should be able to get a reliable, repeatable test. This should provide an interesting LZ for the tests I think: Blast door Edges Heavy Armor Blast door middles Heavy Armor Voxels
On behalf of the ship turning with mass suspended under the ship by a piston: this is actually the correct kind of behaviour. Normaly a sapce engineers grid behaves in a way that, no matter where the center of mass (or in case of being inside a planetary gravity well the center of gravity) is, placing a gyroscope and a thruster for each direction will allow the ship to move freely in any direction, always rotating around its center of mass/gravity. However, as soon as another grid is added, either by means of subgrid via piston or a connector, both grids centers of mass/gravity are coming into effect, forming basicly a barycenter (a combined center of mass/gravity) around which the newly formed combined grid will rotate. If the added grid/subgrid is not equipped with an gyro and thrusters of its own, lever forces can and will be induced, forcing the combined grid to rotate around the combined center of mass/gravity. The fact that the craft is rotatiting after it bounces back directly after the impact is ilustrating this perfectly (and is best demonstrated by the 30m drop test). The heavy armor example just sets the combined COM lower then the light armor, creating a greater lever, whioch creates more leverage, which rotates the whole thing faster. This also explains why the example ship is capeable of correcting the rotation with light armor blocks but lacks the power to compensate with the heavy armore blocks. More Gyros would allow for a more stable flight pattern, even with heavy armor suspended underneath the craft. This behaviour is actually acurate and has been around since the introduction of docking. As soon as one grid is draging another grid outside itself, a rotation is induced due to the creation of a lever around a combined center of mass/gravity that can and in some cases will be placed outside both grids. The reason this fairly acurate behaviour is counter intuitive from the games perspective is that it is a game and to allow the player to create what ever ship he wants without forcing all players to merely use a limited set of symetric shapes, the center of mass in a particular grid is always in the center and the ship does not create levers for every thruster or gyro that is not on the exact edges of the craft (that would best be ball or brick shaped and no one likes those). To the drop tests themselves I have not looked into the complete update notes of the physics update, but it looks like we finally have something like structual integrity coming over from Medievel Engineers, now if we only could get composite blocks for SE XD Should have watched the whole video, the utter annihilation of the talisman shows that we now have something like structural integrity. It seems to have no efect on building things (since I have done that after the update without any changes) but finaly stuff gets completly destroyed instead of either phasing through the planet, awkwardly sinking into the ground or having just a couple of blocks destroyed before stopping completly and being nearly unharmed. Now if we could get composite blocks I'd be completly happy. And maybe a way to pancake ships (as a third option to nearly no damage with very slopw impacts (aka controled landings) or the ship completly being turned to vapor upon impact (I am nagging I know XD)) edit: err tl;dr great video, pistons create levers, nothing wierd there and we finaly have structural integrity yay!
In terms of real world physics you're absolutely right, it's even the case with Kerbal physics. However had understood from the update that subgrids wouldn't be doing that any more, which is why the ships with wheels on suspension flew so much better. It meant I was a little surprised when it still worked that way with pistons :P I hadn't thought of it in terms of structural integrity but I suppose you're right. The way the impacts are behaving is like that. I personally don't want them to add any structural integrity to constructions since it'll prevent a lot of the more out there types of ship designs that sometimes end up looking really amazing but however they've fixed voxel impacts I'm really happy with the results :)
Yeah, in real world. But as Split said Keen made it so subgrids wouldn’t effect COM as a cheaty way of fixing clang. All they did in SE was trade one way of cheating physics with a new way of cheating physics, which just results in a new type of clang.
Nice talisman meteor storm at the end splitsie ;) And again.. Interesting tests with surprising results. Due to the fact that wheel suspension now work on ships properly, I'll consider building ships with real landing gears like airplanes have.. Maybe even with the smallest wheel size.. That should look really cool and if it's functional as well, it would be a good alternative to the basic stiff landing gear.. Keep it up! Great video as always!
Lol! That's such a good description of the end bit! I love that landing gear made from wheels might be legitimately on the cards now, I'm so happy that Keen fixed it so you can fly with them. I'd love to see what you come up with in that area - I've got in my head that you'll build some awesome scripted retractable gear :)
For those results, it seems like there is some kind of shrapnel dmg, now 'on', in the game... *'test-able' with drill... ** There is something like subgrids dmg 'default off'
I love your attention to scientific method in this and all your testing videos (at least the ones I have seen). You put a lot of effort into controlling for a single key variable, and that's cool
In the drops where the cockpit was destroyed instead of the batteries is an interesting result. Maybe you could protect vital components with blocks that will be destroyed first to prevent the force transferring into components like batteries.
Ooooh, I really like your thinking! There might be some way to incorporate scaffolding into a build in order to stop propagation of external damage to the internal components :)
Beautiful and epic series, so sad it has come to an end. You guys, all of you both at the centre of the streams and those behind the scenes are just amazing. You have brought much joy to us these past months! Thank you!
Yes, interesting the collision and damage behavior. "Triforcing", look up Robocraft and see construction techniques a couple of years ago. Damage (from weapons hit) traveled 5 blocks, but with random progression of direction, or until no more blocks to damage. So the idea was to in a way control what got damaged and not. This by building so some blocks are touching, but with sides that can not attach (invalid). Since they can not attach, any damage then have to "move" through several other blocks if to reach the other, if created it so. If this thinking can be used in Space Engineers now, is something that can be tested.
Interesting thought, that's the sort of thing that was going through my head when I was trying to figure out what was happening. I think Space Engineers makes it a little more complex by having different blocks attenuate the force more effectively than others, but you could certainly attempt to apply some of those ideas from robocraft and it'd be interesting to see if they work...
Well. Here comes the Fun Part again. I think the new update made the Crashes a bit lame but i kind of like it. Because in the Trailers of the Game you see the fighter getting damaged and flying into the hangar. Seeing that before the update wasnt common. It was more likely to get your Cockpit destroyed. Or more. Now you can actually return from combat. It makes the Combat better in my opinion. Raiding ships will we amazing again. You will have to return for repairs and restock. Maybe they shot your cargo container and you lose all your ammo but all your thrusters are still instact. -Aki
I like the crashes myself, but with the voxels being almost indestructible (like everything seems to be made of diamond) I can completely understand where you're coming from. I think you're totally right about the crashes now being somewhat like the ones in the promo videos, maybe that's why they're having the video competition? Keen think that the videos can actually be improved upon now :)
The physics testing hooked me on the video, but that outro got me to subscribe. lol, good video keep up the hard work! I'm going to be testing the piston armor soon. Maybe it'll fair better than my pillared armor (similiar to the extended legs on your tests, but it has full armor surrounding all of the pillars).
I had a lot of fun doing that, have a look at the follow up video, I got destructive in a different way at the end of it :P Plus I test the piston armor with a bit more success
I'd say it's pretty unlikely, but maybe with these changes the modded speed limit will at least break less often, plus I'm really happy with the way the ships disintegrate now! :)
One other thing with your crumple zone testing I noticed - the ones with the long legs that survived had NO armor blocks directly below the batteries. All the other designs had impacted blocks below the batteries that failed.
That's a good point, as a coincidence I actually put a rig in the next collision test that has the legs attached to the batteries - not because I'd noticed this, just because I wanted to try it :P Thanks for giving that ship a real purpose in the test!
I feel like a decent alternative would be to build the batteries in a way so that they aren't nearly the first thing to touch the ground. Seeing as kinetic energy tends to travel from the point of impact throughout the entire structure, which may be why a piston can make hard impact from higher heights without damage. It has more length to travel before the energy hits the main body.
Some very interesting results with those tests, and some surprising ones as well. There are two vehicle types that I would most like to see you build and test, and that is a tracked vehicle, and a vtol ship. I was really impressed with that tracked vehicle shown in Keen's Physics Update video, and would really love to know how to build one.
Me too! Ever since I saw it I was drooling over the idea of building a tracked vehicle. I'll have to look into how to get them going and see if it's possible in survival because that would be really cool!
Look forward to seeing that, if you can figure it out. I was trying to work out which type of block they actually use for the tracks themselves, but I could not identify them, and they just did not look like anything I had come across before, so maybe they are something that has not yet been put into the game.
It looked like a series of rotors connected to each other with rotor parts stuck out of them, but I'm not sure why they'd use those instead of 1x1 wheels. It's certainly going to take some investigation :)
Nice job on the video I'm certainly glad they fixed the wheels issue now ill be able to work on a design idea i have had for some time but had trouble with.
It did look that way, this Saturday I'm going to take another look though as a few people suggested it might be the ice chunks making it look that way... Should be interesting to test :)
Oh yeah, things get quite weird with high speed and high mass. I came back and tested the collisions again as I think I had some ideas wrong in this video so I wanted to set things right :)
What I'm getting from this is the physics calcs are better handled... and that your ships may crash... and have subsystems (batteries, etc) damaged/destroyed, while the main hull lagely remains intact. I like this. This indicates some interesting, and survivable/salvageable crashes.
They certainly seem to be running about 1000times more smoothly so hopefully they'll be consistent enough or each part of a collision will be visible enough that we can get an idea of what's going on. There's some fun times ahead for fiddling with the physics :)
Good video. I recommend explaining what block you used and then drop the ship before moving to the next one and repeat until the end, instead of explaining them all first and then drop them after, could save time and improve the videos flow.
Thanks, you make a fair point and I'm honestly not quite sure why I did it that way, I had a reason at the time I'm sure, but since I can't remember it I'm going to guess it wasn't that great a reason :P
I would think the unarmed warheads would survive. I still would have included magnet plates and landing gear as part of the experiment. Also, would like to see more of the lanced ship dropping types. Maybe small armor blocks were too weak to use. Good vid.
That was a lot of fun (especially the ship storm at the end) and also very educational...Lots of things to try out when I can get back into SE...I am wondering how a ship would fly with pistons on all 6 axes....If that flies straight and level, that might give useful all round protection from impacts....also a really funny omni pogo ship :)
i noticed that when voxel destruction occured, small objects with great momentum was spawned. Its possible what was happening is those objects were triggering collision with the batteries, blowing them up. still doesn't fully explain all of it, but something to consider. on a side note good video, you've earned a sub.
Thanks, and you're absolutely right about the pieces of voxel. I came back and tested it again for my most recent video with dropping the ships onto heavy armor - it was nice to have another reason to blow up more ships ;)
watching, it might actually be the copositioning of the spawned Floating Ice Chunks impacting the other blocks. perhaps try a belly plate of heavy armor, a 1 block standoff, then another flat layer
Yeah, it could be that, I don't know if those particles are treated as full physics particles or not though, but I intend to test with armor and find out :)
They are, irritatingly so to the point where the little tiny chunks block building. They removed collision from them before when they were causing odd deaths, but have now turned it back on with the new update.
I've certainly experienced the little bits of rubble getting in my way - irritating little blighters! I'm going to have some fun proving that was the problem, it could be interesting to see how differently the ships break up without voxel rubble getting in the way :)
It looks like the damage to the main ship is linked to how far away the impact was from them, the wheels and pistons have practically infinite distance because they are subgrids, except they well eventually hit the main ship. And the poles are another example, looks like you saw this too by the talisman
Very informative demo, thanks. As the batteries seem to have been the weak link on most occasions, I wonder if it would be less catastrophic if reactors were used?
Thanks Mick :) If I do as you suggested and drop them onto armor to test if the voxel particle spawn was part of the explanation then it could be very interesting to check which parts are most likely to fail first, particularly the functional bits
There were some very oddly behaving pieces of debris, a number of them looked like they were still attached to invisible blocks in the ways they were flying...
What about wheel suspension without the wheels attached. Also what i think is happening is not a transmission of force but the spawning of the damaged voxel blocks expanding into the space and effectively deleting what is around them. I have noticed the same damage by using a stone extracting conveyor system covering the port and turning it on.
I'm suspicious you could be right, there is one big difference between the damaged voxel particles and the stone from an ejector though: the damaged particles are GPU particles whereas the ejected stone is an object. I have no idea if that impacts whether they cause damage though. I'm going to need to look further into this test by repeating it on a block surface and seeing if the batteries are still the failure point without those chunks of ice :)
What about rotors, I like trying to make folding gear, could you test gear that folds (1 rotor each) flat to the bottom, and (2 rotor each) gear that fold flat to the sides Both fully extended and half extended, and with/without wheels Also do pistons in all directions cancel out the phantom rotation, compound it, or no effect
With the rotation it seems to be about having the pistons balanced about the center of gravity, I went back and built a ship that uses that method which is much more balanced (I test it in the second half of this video - th-cam.com/video/2_moIKy0pJQ/w-d-xo.html ) I certainly want to try to make some rotor based suspension and see how well it works since the update, there's a few other landing systems I'd like to try too :)
Potentially, they can cause their own issues and do cause nightmares for dampeners but otherwise they can prevent damage that is otherwise quite difficult to :) I've used them in Survival Unlikely to deliver tools to Capac on the moon where parachutes weren't an option and I wanted an unpowered grid to drop
Haven't got to mess with the new physics until like 2 hours ago, and I can already tell that the physics has definitely been improved... I use a speed mod (1000m/s cap) and with this new physics, I no longer just bounce off the ground at those speeds. KSH really have made this game a lot more stable, thankfully. Hmm, During those tests, I'm surprised the connector didn't immediately get destroyed on the first one, since you know... You tapped a connector against a voxel in your survival series and broke it :) I would send armour designs in, but since my ships are all about function and I don't intend to crash my ships, all of my designs would just melt upon impact x). Oh, and speaking of the new physics and speed caps, me and a friend decided to push rotors to their limit, and we managed to break the game and hit 460m/s (550m/s peaking for me, due to server lag) with large atmospheric thrusters attached at length to a rotor (with a counterbalance). I suggest giving it a go, it's quite a bit of fun :D P.S: Those Talisman (Talismen, since plural?) crashes were so damn satisfying.
That's a very good point about the connector.. maybe the people telling me my ejectors are in the wrong spot are right? I think I want to turn a rotor into a launch mechanism - I wonder what happens when you release something from a rotor that's travelling at those speeds... without a speed mod I had a lot of fun doing the talisman storm at the end, I've got something slightly less destructive but hopefully entertaining planned for the next physics test ending ;)
Well, from my experience with ejectors, I find if they're close to the ground and surrounded by other blocks, the stone will glitch into your vehicle and can cause damage. Might be worth investigating. From what I've tested, detatching from a rotor doesn't allow you to continue breaking the speed cap, and will just go to 104~m/s. I didn't thouroughly test it though, so don't take my word for it ;) Sounds exciting! I look forward to it as always, even if I'm late again haha.
That's disappointing about the speed cap, I had a rotor based orbital launcher idea planned :P I'm also going to have to test the range of damage of the ejector setup to find the minimum clearance you can get away with
Should have tried an unextended piston to see if the results were the same? As if the length and absorbtion that is absorbing/bouncing is still there if the piston is retracted
Interesting, in playing around to make a ship with pistons in all directions I found the longer length of extension helped, but I didn't actually test the piston retracted to see if you still get any benefit.. I should have done that :P
You should Note the Center of Gravity, I find it looks like your batteries are at the focus of... test to see if that may be the "end" of force transmission?
So, locking landing gear cancels inertia? Then you may be able to make a nearly guaranteed crash arrestor by putting an auto-lock landing gear on an extended piston. The compression of the piston gives the landing gear more time to detect locking proximity and engage the lock. I'm going to have to do some testing of my own now.
+Splitsie great tests - as ever. Had you considered using rotors as a shock absorbers? Much lower profile than pistons and from my tests at least, surprisingly good at damage reduction
I started doing that, then realised it might be more fun to do a separate video on making shock absorbing landing gear with either rotors or suspension :)
In theory you could make a rotor+piston combo at each corner. When facing forward/backward, the landing surfaces would act as bumpers; when facing down of course you could land on them. And like with your parachute video, I think the trick would be to place them symmetrically relative to the ship's center of mass.
the impression i get from these tests is as you suspect damage travels along connected blocks, the central battery fails because it takes impact from all contact blocks. the cockpit takes a bit of damage from just the front blocks, the rear takes the rear but the central takes from both front and rear so its twice the damage and it fails from the accumulation. i think you could get a bigger craft to survive as the impact would be spread over more blocks and not overlapping the damage leading to failure
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm interested to try a ship with spaced out critical systems to see if adding armor between can limit any damage to just 1 or 2 systems even if there is a failure :)
yeah i think that if it was fully understood how the damage is applied then with that knowledge a craft could be designed to be able to take far more damage. i was also very interested to see how effective the pogostick was, sure it bounced around a little strangly but id like to see how effective a piston landing gear system would be on a larger ship say the talisman, could you get away with a hard(ish) landing with a bunch of piston legs to bounce off or would the extra weight just bust them too easy. where is the line of effectiveness for pistons both in terms of speed and weight? btw your testing was very good and im glad you covered this subject as i have yet to try the new physics and was checking videos to see what to expect from the changes, you did a great job as always to look into it.
Damage doesn’t travel through blocks sadly. The reason batteries get destroyed is they, as well as every other functional blocks, don’t deform. When a voxel creates an ice chunk in their volume they just get flat out destroyed. Basically what happens when you have a loose gyro in a ship.
13:09 "Hmmm, maybe that first drop was just a bad drop" Yeah, true, and I suppose people will unfortunately get those kinds of drops every once in a while. Some drops will be alright, little to no damage. Others, well, they might lose a good portion of their stuff, or even simply split in two like what was shown to just happen earlier.
Luck certainly plays a fairly decent role, particularly making sure you land as close to flat as possible. In addition to the recordings I normally test a few times in case my recorded results are way off from the normal - just in case luck wasn't on my side :)
Supposedly they increased the range of laser antennas with this update as well haven't had a chance to check that out myself yet though. But i did notice about 30 fps and i have never had more than 20 before
Awesome! I'm glad you're starting to see some nice performance :) And yeah, the laser antennae are supposed to be 200km now which potentially makes them very useful
200km nice that will help me out a ton considering i am planing on setting up a communications network between earth and mars. And hopefully that increased fps will be just enough for me to try recording a video on monday but if that does not work then i may have to show you the space drone set up the same way we did the planet cargo drone last time but this time its a mining ship
as promised here is the video its not very good but I hope that It will explain the space docking well enough that you will be able to make a much better tutorial on it than I can th-cam.com/video/vWqUozVGg5E/w-d-xo.html anyway looks like you tube made the video much quieter then it originally was, anyway let me know if this was helpful enough if not we can try something else
I think you're right, though I was really surprised to see them working that way since they've always behaved in ways totally foreign to the physics we experience in real life :P
i suspect that the damage is something like the mass and velocity at time of impact = impact value the point of impacted blocks each block has a impact value threshold (impact value above this level causes damage and the higher above the level means more damage) and each block has a impact dispersal value (so the impact value doesnt just run through your entire ship) so like a line of blocks flying straight into the ground creates a impact value of 10 all the blocks are the same and has a threshold of 2 and a dispersal of 1 and a health of 5 so the impact would cause 8 points of damage to the first block. destroying it and losing one point of impact value the next would be 7 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value 6 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value 5 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value and then 4 and the blocks would start surviving at least thats what i think the games doing as for the path the impact value takes could be something like from the block of impact to the center of gravity
watching you crash that talisman makes me think that its more likely that the health of block is the same as the dispersion value so each destroyed block would take away its health worth of impact value
try the following thing, attach 6x wheel suspensions on each side of a Block, then let them fall from different highs,... dont now about the changes of the last Updates, but 4 week ago i used these method to check what is the best protection from falling, so the wheels from the wheels suspension are very strong, from hit from side,... so they are a good protection
so btw realy thanks for your Video from 23.08.2017: "Space Engineers Tutorial: LCD Panels, Import Images..." and the information about the tool called SEImage2LCD. because of that, i was able to made some amazing status scripts for Space Engineers, i release some of them on december,...
Awesome, I love hearing that those tutorials have helped people do things I didn't expect with them. And that is one awesome tool as well :) If the scripts might end up useful in my survival make sure you link them so I can take a look
So here's the Call... I made 3 Scripts because of the Idea, that i get through your Video and the Converter, the first Script is out now ;-), i'm realy happy with it, here is the Link to my Video: th-cam.com/video/cbfwXqCVVAo/w-d-xo.html In the Description you find the link to the Steam-Workshop,... Will be nice if you link my channel when you make an review of it,... thanks and i hope you like it too.
Btw, my interesting experience with enhanced physics: no speed limit mod works way better now so I crashed into planet with speed of about 4km per second. My ship didn't even break. It instantly disappeared. Surprisingly my game didn't crash, but I fell into planet. And couldn't get out without drilling. That might be a way to get into planet's core though.
They seem to have greatly optimised the collision calculations so I'm not surprised that the speed mods are working better - you probably don't want to phase through the planet's surface every time though :P
I just put a cage over part to be protected and weird plates that stick out to absorb impact if I crash or land badly. Landing gears are good too. Thrusters are expensive. Landing gear on end of piston. For my next trick! I will make this space ship disappear!
It's because it's spawning Ice INSIDE of a component.... When it deforms the voxel, it sometimes makes Ice, with no room for it to spawn except inside the test blocks, which is why your batteries are exploding.
Try again, but impacting on a surface that doesn't spawn objects. It doesn't make a difference, considering most likely impacts, but it's relevant for future updates if Keen change that.
Yeah, it's a bit strange. I retested a few of the drops in a second video that helped make things behave a bit more predictably - by dropping onto heavy armor
"It's not gonna happen mate. That's a whopping ball of burg." "Just try it. Hit the beat hard and together!" "I know how to hit things hard ok. And I'm telling you, the impact force of compact ice, UNDER PRESSURE IS!" "Just give it a go you big wuss!" "WHY!" Not exactly sure why this immediately came to mind when I saw splitsie dropping cars.
Physics no longer extend with infinite force, but now a calculated adjustable force. In essence they are a realistic piston. so yes they can be shock absorbers
The weird part about them is that blocks attached to the end of the pistons are a lot more durable than standard blocks.. I wonder if they'll change that any time soon? It's entertaining while they behave this way though :P
In fact, subgrids are now infinitely durable... as long as they only collide with their own grid. Yep, collision damage is ignored entirely between attached subgrids, but not for separate grids. So you could have something that presses in to the side of your craft from your craft and be fine, but not if that thing comes from an external source.
You're sure it's subgrids and not just grids in general? The pistons might have just survived because they can act like a suspension and give a bit under the impact, not because the head and attached blocks are more durable.
That sounds like you might have been playing on a multiplayer server... I haven't experienced that sort of thing in single player in an incredibly long time. If it was single player I'd try placing a single block into the voxels and then building from a landing gear that's attached to that block - the initial station type block is helpful as it means everything can be level with gravity :)
As it turns out (I've tested this in my latest video) the results were actually due to the rubble being spawned by the damaged voxels. The pieces of rubble spawned where the batteries were and the batteries lost :(
Thanks, some of my thoughts on it weren't quite right so I've revisited it since in another video, also played around with the piston shock absorbers which work ridiculously well :)
From what I’ve been able to test it seems like most collision damage is caused by rocks being generated inside the ship when crashing into voxels which pretty much vaporizes everything beside them. Piston nonsense is a laughable side effect of subgrids not damaging ships. There are a lot of issues with damage still. Ships are receiving collision damage in internal places not touched by said collisions.
I think you're right, but I'm still going to have fun testing it ;) I need to play around with the pistons a little more, I want to see just how silly I can get with them
I think that's something I'll need to test. Adding your critical systems to rotors for protection is so counter to my earlier thinking (due to clang) that it seems completely insane :P ... But it just might work!
They're certainly not perfect, but they work in more situations than they used to which is nice. Though they're still pretty poor performers in multiplayer from what I've been hearing, that's mostly unchanged
Yep, totally unexpected. I used to run my tests before recording but I think it's more fun to record at the same time - especially when weird things happen :P
I perceive two reasons why you get different results. 1. The ice is not smooth so you hit it always at an angle angle. 2. The physics engine is not consistent. My laurels are on the first. Cus math's math.
I think both of those may contribute, though I suspect that the ice is flat enough that its surface isn't the problem but rather where a voxel boundary may lie and where the ship hits it. This would change where any debris is generated and change the damage that gets applied
I made a ship that had landing gear on the end of two extended pistons and while going back to the planet accidentally turned off the ship. What happened was that I landed flat on the landing gear and bounced about 100 meters in the air.
I'm thinking of repeating the tests with blocks to see if the spawning of the damaged voxel bits was contributing to what we saw with the batteries failing
Man, idk. I like that they are trying to fix it. But you would think that when you slam a ship into a rock wall that it wouldn’t function. Before it would be totally destroyed. As Capitals jack said. I feel like we just went back to what it was. Nothing actually improved in a noticeable way.
The problem may be that the blocks destroy a voxel that creates a ice chunk and that chunk glitches into the ship and destroys the internals at 21:58 you can see a chunk of ice stuck in the place the battery was.
erorsk :D I was able to say the same thing.
You're right, that's a very interesting thought... I wonder how we might test that more reliably
Maybe test it onto a blast door platform as the impact surface
Maybe test it onto a blast door platform as the impact surface
I think you're going to need to build a series of heavy armor and blast door platforms to test this on reliably. Because Blast doors were designed to take the impact and Heavy armor has the highest (of the armor blocks) component cost by layering them like lasagna you should be able to get a reliable, repeatable test.
This should provide an interesting LZ for the tests I think:
Blast door Edges
Heavy Armor
Blast door middles
Heavy Armor
Voxels
On behalf of the ship turning with mass suspended under the ship by a piston:
this is actually the correct kind of behaviour.
Normaly a sapce engineers grid behaves in a way that, no matter where the center of mass (or in case of being inside a planetary gravity well the center of gravity) is, placing a gyroscope and a thruster for each direction will allow the ship to move freely in any direction, always rotating around its center of mass/gravity. However, as soon as another grid is added, either by means of subgrid via piston or a connector, both grids centers of mass/gravity are coming into effect, forming basicly a barycenter (a combined center of mass/gravity) around which the newly formed combined grid will rotate. If the added grid/subgrid is not equipped with an gyro and thrusters of its own, lever forces can and will be induced, forcing the combined grid to rotate around the combined center of mass/gravity. The fact that the craft is rotatiting after it bounces back directly after the impact is ilustrating this perfectly (and is best demonstrated by the 30m drop test).
The heavy armor example just sets the combined COM lower then the light armor, creating a greater lever, whioch creates more leverage, which rotates the whole thing faster. This also explains why the example ship is capeable of correcting the rotation with light armor blocks but lacks the power to compensate with the heavy armore blocks. More Gyros would allow for a more stable flight pattern, even with heavy armor suspended underneath the craft.
This behaviour is actually acurate and has been around since the introduction of docking. As soon as one grid is draging another grid outside itself, a rotation is induced due to the creation of a lever around a combined center of mass/gravity that can and in some cases will be placed outside both grids.
The reason this fairly acurate behaviour is counter intuitive from the games perspective is that it is a game and to allow the player to create what ever ship he wants without forcing all players to merely use a limited set of symetric shapes, the center of mass in a particular grid is always in the center and the ship does not create levers for every thruster or gyro that is not on the exact edges of the craft (that would best be ball or brick shaped and no one likes those).
To the drop tests themselves
I have not looked into the complete update notes of the physics update, but it looks like we finally have something like structual integrity coming over from Medievel Engineers, now if we only could get composite blocks for SE XD
Should have watched the whole video, the utter annihilation of the talisman shows that we now have something like structural integrity. It seems to have no efect on building things (since I have done that after the update without any changes) but finaly stuff gets completly destroyed instead of either phasing through the planet, awkwardly sinking into the ground or having just a couple of blocks destroyed before stopping completly and being nearly unharmed.
Now if we could get composite blocks I'd be completly happy. And maybe a way to pancake ships (as a third option to nearly no damage with very slopw impacts (aka controled landings) or the ship completly being turned to vapor upon impact (I am nagging I know XD))
edit:
err tl;dr
great video, pistons create levers, nothing wierd there and we finaly have structural integrity yay!
In terms of real world physics you're absolutely right, it's even the case with Kerbal physics. However had understood from the update that subgrids wouldn't be doing that any more, which is why the ships with wheels on suspension flew so much better. It meant I was a little surprised when it still worked that way with pistons :P
I hadn't thought of it in terms of structural integrity but I suppose you're right. The way the impacts are behaving is like that. I personally don't want them to add any structural integrity to constructions since it'll prevent a lot of the more out there types of ship designs that sometimes end up looking really amazing but however they've fixed voxel impacts I'm really happy with the results :)
Yeah, in real world. But as Split said Keen made it so subgrids wouldn’t effect COM as a cheaty way of fixing clang. All they did in SE was trade one way of cheating physics with a new way of cheating physics, which just results in a new type of clang.
Nice talisman meteor storm at the end splitsie ;) And again.. Interesting tests with surprising results. Due to the fact that wheel suspension now work on ships properly, I'll consider building ships with real landing gears like airplanes have.. Maybe even with the smallest wheel size.. That should look really cool and if it's functional as well, it would be a good alternative to the basic stiff landing gear.. Keep it up! Great video as always!
Lol! That's such a good description of the end bit!
I love that landing gear made from wheels might be legitimately on the cards now, I'm so happy that Keen fixed it so you can fly with them. I'd love to see what you come up with in that area - I've got in my head that you'll build some awesome scripted retractable gear :)
That's exactly what I was thinking of ;)
Definitely excited for what you come up with now!
For those results, it seems like there is some kind of shrapnel dmg, now 'on', in the game...
*'test-able' with drill...
** There is something like subgrids dmg 'default off'
Yea that talisman storm was a good ending to the video
I love your attention to scientific method in this and all your testing videos (at least the ones I have seen). You put a lot of effort into controlling for a single key variable, and that's cool
Thanks, I try to take a bit of the mythbusters style approach, be as scientific as I can without getting bogged down in too many details :P
In the drops where the cockpit was destroyed instead of the batteries is an interesting result. Maybe you could protect vital components with blocks that will be destroyed first to prevent the force transferring into components like batteries.
Ooooh, I really like your thinking! There might be some way to incorporate scaffolding into a build in order to stop propagation of external damage to the internal components :)
I love your videos because i don't have to read the Update logs
Lol! Thanks :)
There was a lot more in them that I'll hopefully manage to cover in the coming weeks
It was really a big Update
Absolutely, keen really pulled out all the stops :)
Beautiful and epic series, so sad it has come to an end. You guys, all of you both at the centre of the streams and those behind the scenes are just amazing. You have brought much joy to us these past months! Thank you!
Thanks Mandy, though it's weird, for me this comment is showing up on my physics testing video 😂
@@Splitsie that's weird... Did I click on the wrong thing...? I suppose it was after 2am for me... 😅
I reckon it had autoplay jumped to the next video right at the wrong time 😂
@@Splitsie I hate autoplay...
Yes, interesting the collision and damage behavior. "Triforcing", look up Robocraft and see construction techniques a couple of years ago. Damage (from weapons hit) traveled 5 blocks, but with random progression of direction, or until no more blocks to damage. So the idea was to in a way control what got damaged and not. This by building so some blocks are touching, but with sides that can not attach (invalid). Since they can not attach, any damage then have to "move" through several other blocks if to reach the other, if created it so. If this thinking can be used in Space Engineers now, is something that can be tested.
Interesting thought, that's the sort of thing that was going through my head when I was trying to figure out what was happening. I think Space Engineers makes it a little more complex by having different blocks attenuate the force more effectively than others, but you could certainly attempt to apply some of those ideas from robocraft and it'd be interesting to see if they work...
Well. Here comes the Fun Part again. I think the new update made the Crashes a bit lame but i kind of like it. Because in the Trailers of the Game you see the fighter getting damaged and flying into the hangar. Seeing that before the update wasnt common. It was more likely to get your Cockpit destroyed. Or more. Now you can actually return from combat. It makes the Combat better in my opinion. Raiding ships will we amazing again. You will have to return for repairs and restock. Maybe they shot your cargo container and you lose all your ammo but all your thrusters are still instact. -Aki
I like the crashes myself, but with the voxels being almost indestructible (like everything seems to be made of diamond) I can completely understand where you're coming from. I think you're totally right about the crashes now being somewhat like the ones in the promo videos, maybe that's why they're having the video competition? Keen think that the videos can actually be improved upon now :)
That piston that bounced :D Prepare for bouncing sticks vehicles.
I would love to see a flurry of that sort of thing, it would be amazing! :D
And yet another good tutorial split, still the best of tutorials on SE:B XD
Thanks so much Dany :)
Brilliant work sir - you are a true scientist
Why thank you! I like to think of myself as a backyard scientist :)
looking at what the pistons did with the impacts, clearly Keen wants us to start making walkers, someone call Black Armor, his time is now!
So very true!
I want to see a dancing walker using the pistons to do jumps a pirouettes :P
This sounds like a most difficult and amazing challenge.
it certainly is, but go have a look at Black Armor's stuff. Its sad he is on break atm
Indeed, he's built some amazing things
I want to see how high untill the piston fails and mab see if it can be effectively implemented because they seem to be good shock absorbers
So do I! I wonder what speeds they can handle and whether they could be an alternative to parachutes...
The physics testing hooked me on the video, but that outro got me to subscribe. lol, good video keep up the hard work! I'm going to be testing the piston armor soon. Maybe it'll fair better than my pillared armor (similiar to the extended legs on your tests, but it has full armor surrounding all of the pillars).
I had a lot of fun doing that, have a look at the follow up video, I got destructive in a different way at the end of it :P
Plus I test the piston armor with a bit more success
very good job keep it up, and that outro :3
Yep, that was soooo much fun - I need to do more destructive tests in the future ;)
blowing shit up for science
Everyday! ;)
" remember kids the difference between screwing around and doing science, is to write it done!"
since 1933
"SPACEBALLS?!"
Oh, crap...there goes the planet...
I wonder how many talismans I'd have to crash at one location in order to drill down to the centre of the planet...
By the looks of things...a lot more now than you used to need :)
Hey Splitsie, keep doing what you're doing! I watch all your videos, very informative. Love Space Engineers :)
Thanks so much Beric :)
I wonder if now that they have adjusted the impact system then will they also increase the speed limit? Here is to hoping.
I'd say it's pretty unlikely, but maybe with these changes the modded speed limit will at least break less often, plus I'm really happy with the way the ships disintegrate now! :)
One other thing with your crumple zone testing I noticed - the ones with the long legs that survived had NO armor blocks directly below the batteries. All the other designs had impacted blocks below the batteries that failed.
That's a good point, as a coincidence I actually put a rig in the next collision test that has the legs attached to the batteries - not because I'd noticed this, just because I wanted to try it :P
Thanks for giving that ship a real purpose in the test!
I feel like a decent alternative would be to build the batteries in a way so that they aren't nearly the first thing to touch the ground. Seeing as kinetic energy tends to travel from the point of impact throughout the entire structure, which may be why a piston can make hard impact from higher heights without damage. It has more length to travel before the energy hits the main body.
Some very interesting results with those tests, and some surprising ones as well. There are two vehicle types that I would most like to see you build and test, and that is a tracked vehicle, and a vtol ship. I was really impressed with that tracked vehicle shown in Keen's Physics Update video, and would really love to know how to build one.
Me too! Ever since I saw it I was drooling over the idea of building a tracked vehicle. I'll have to look into how to get them going and see if it's possible in survival because that would be really cool!
Look forward to seeing that, if you can figure it out. I was trying to work out which type of block they actually use for the tracks themselves, but I could not identify them, and they just did not look like anything I had come across before, so maybe they are something that has not yet been put into the game.
It looked like a series of rotors connected to each other with rotor parts stuck out of them, but I'm not sure why they'd use those instead of 1x1 wheels. It's certainly going to take some investigation :)
Nice job on the video I'm certainly glad they fixed the wheels issue now ill be able to work on a design idea i have had for some time but had trouble with.
Thanks Mac! It opens up so many possibilities for landing gear and other bits and pieces, I'm quite excited :)
At 24:00 it seems to me that the damage done travels X amount of blocks into the structure that crashes. Which is interesting.
It did look that way, this Saturday I'm going to take another look though as a few people suggested it might be the ice chunks making it look that way... Should be interesting to test :)
Great job there, kinda like a whole college paper about material's resistance on colisions, or something like that, rly nice.
Looks like things get a little more random with higher speed
Oh yeah, things get quite weird with high speed and high mass. I came back and tested the collisions again as I think I had some ideas wrong in this video so I wanted to set things right :)
Thanks g, your videos are always appreaciated
You're very welcome :)
I might have had a fair bit of fun with this one - especially the end bit smashing everything to pieces!
Im going to comment at 5:56 because I am before watching the rest curious to see if a crumple zone could be a viable option for ablative(ish) armour.
What I'm getting from this is the physics calcs are better handled... and that your ships may crash... and have subsystems (batteries, etc) damaged/destroyed, while the main hull lagely remains intact.
I like this. This indicates some interesting, and survivable/salvageable crashes.
They certainly seem to be running about 1000times more smoothly so hopefully they'll be consistent enough or each part of a collision will be visible enough that we can get an idea of what's going on. There's some fun times ahead for fiddling with the physics :)
How about sensors activating pogo sticks when close to ground then?
That would be pretty cool if you could get it working :)
Good video. I recommend explaining what block you used and then drop the ship before moving to the next one and repeat until the end, instead of explaining them all first and then drop them after, could save time and improve the videos flow.
Thanks, you make a fair point and I'm honestly not quite sure why I did it that way, I had a reason at the time I'm sure, but since I can't remember it I'm going to guess it wasn't that great a reason :P
I would think the unarmed warheads would survive. I still would have included magnet plates and landing gear as part of the experiment. Also, would like to see more of the lanced ship dropping types. Maybe small armor blocks were too weak to use. Good vid.
Could you try to build a giant cage around a ship and do the same tests?
You could, if you build it well enough you'd probably get pretty good crash resistance too
when you droped the one with a piston and it bounce i was like ITS A POGO STICK XD
Great minds think alike :)
YAY,, ;D I love when people do crash tests hehe. And wow.. the large grid ship was realy fun
I really need to find a good reason to do more tests like this ;)
That was a lot of fun (especially the ship storm at the end) and also very educational...Lots of things to try out when I can get back into SE...I am wondering how a ship would fly with pistons on all 6 axes....If that flies straight and level, that might give useful all round protection from impacts....also a really funny omni pogo ship :)
I'm wondering if you could put pistons on all 6 axes and make a drop pod that doesn't need parachutes ;)
Splitsie There certainly is a lot of opportunities openned up by this experiment 🙂 I see some very fun builds in the near future
Absolutely, and thanks for your tips last night during the stream :)
i noticed that when voxel destruction occured, small objects with great momentum was spawned. Its possible what was happening is those objects were triggering collision with the batteries, blowing them up. still doesn't fully explain all of it, but something to consider.
on a side note good video, you've earned a sub.
Thanks, and you're absolutely right about the pieces of voxel. I came back and tested it again for my most recent video with dropping the ships onto heavy armor - it was nice to have another reason to blow up more ships ;)
Wow I actually got a response on an older video. Thanks and have a nice day. :)
You're very welcome and you too! :)
Initial point of contact takes the brunt unless it travels hitting weaker as the energy travels battery weaker than cockpit and armour (12 minutes in)
watching, it might actually be the copositioning of the spawned Floating Ice Chunks impacting the other blocks. perhaps try a belly plate of heavy armor, a 1 block standoff, then another flat layer
Yeah, it could be that, I don't know if those particles are treated as full physics particles or not though, but I intend to test with armor and find out :)
They are, irritatingly so to the point where the little tiny chunks block building. They removed collision from them before when they were causing odd deaths, but have now turned it back on with the new update.
I've certainly experienced the little bits of rubble getting in my way - irritating little blighters!
I'm going to have some fun proving that was the problem, it could be interesting to see how differently the ships break up without voxel rubble getting in the way :)
It looks like the damage to the main ship is linked to how far away the impact was from them, the wheels and pistons have practically infinite distance because they are subgrids, except they well eventually hit the main ship. And the poles are another example, looks like you saw this too by the talisman
Yeah, it does seem that way. The poles on the talisman simply didn't have enough resistance for the amount of force the 450 tonne ship generated :P
Very informative demo, thanks.
As the batteries seem to have been the weak link on most occasions, I wonder if it would be less catastrophic if reactors were used?
Thanks Mick :)
If I do as you suggested and drop them onto armor to test if the voxel particle spawn was part of the explanation then it could be very interesting to check which parts are most likely to fail first, particularly the functional bits
21:00 Can we discuss this unusual dancing thruster?
There were some very oddly behaving pieces of debris, a number of them looked like they were still attached to invisible blocks in the ways they were flying...
What about wheel suspension without the wheels attached. Also what i think is happening is not a transmission of force but the spawning of the damaged voxel blocks expanding into the space and effectively deleting what is around them. I have noticed the same damage by using a stone extracting conveyor system covering the port and turning it on.
I'm suspicious you could be right, there is one big difference between the damaged voxel particles and the stone from an ejector though: the damaged particles are GPU particles whereas the ejected stone is an object. I have no idea if that impacts whether they cause damage though. I'm going to need to look further into this test by repeating it on a block surface and seeing if the batteries are still the failure point without those chunks of ice :)
What about rotors, I like trying to make folding gear, could you test gear that folds (1 rotor each) flat to the bottom, and (2 rotor each) gear that fold flat to the sides
Both fully extended and half extended, and with/without wheels
Also do pistons in all directions cancel out the phantom rotation, compound it, or no effect
With the rotation it seems to be about having the pistons balanced about the center of gravity, I went back and built a ship that uses that method which is much more balanced (I test it in the second half of this video - th-cam.com/video/2_moIKy0pJQ/w-d-xo.html )
I certainly want to try to make some rotor based suspension and see how well it works since the update, there's a few other landing systems I'd like to try too :)
20:38 could extended pistons be used as an emergency shock absorber
Potentially, they can cause their own issues and do cause nightmares for dampeners but otherwise they can prevent damage that is otherwise quite difficult to :)
I've used them in Survival Unlikely to deliver tools to Capac on the moon where parachutes weren't an option and I wanted an unpowered grid to drop
Haven't got to mess with the new physics until like 2 hours ago, and I can already tell that the physics has definitely been improved... I use a speed mod (1000m/s cap) and with this new physics, I no longer just bounce off the ground at those speeds. KSH really have made this game a lot more stable, thankfully. Hmm, During those tests, I'm surprised the connector didn't immediately get destroyed on the first one, since you know... You tapped a connector against a voxel in your survival series and broke it :)
I would send armour designs in, but since my ships are all about function and I don't intend to crash my ships, all of my designs would just melt upon impact x). Oh, and speaking of the new physics and speed caps, me and a friend decided to push rotors to their limit, and we managed to break the game and hit 460m/s (550m/s peaking for me, due to server lag) with large atmospheric thrusters attached at length to a rotor (with a counterbalance). I suggest giving it a go, it's quite a bit of fun :D
P.S: Those Talisman (Talismen, since plural?) crashes were so damn satisfying.
That's a very good point about the connector.. maybe the people telling me my ejectors are in the wrong spot are right?
I think I want to turn a rotor into a launch mechanism - I wonder what happens when you release something from a rotor that's travelling at those speeds... without a speed mod
I had a lot of fun doing the talisman storm at the end, I've got something slightly less destructive but hopefully entertaining planned for the next physics test ending ;)
Well, from my experience with ejectors, I find if they're close to the ground and surrounded by other blocks, the stone will glitch into your vehicle and can cause damage. Might be worth investigating.
From what I've tested, detatching from a rotor doesn't allow you to continue breaking the speed cap, and will just go to 104~m/s. I didn't thouroughly test it though, so don't take my word for it ;)
Sounds exciting! I look forward to it as always, even if I'm late again haha.
That's disappointing about the speed cap, I had a rotor based orbital launcher idea planned :P
I'm also going to have to test the range of damage of the ejector setup to find the minimum clearance you can get away with
Should have tried an unextended piston to see if the results were the same? As if the length and absorbtion that is absorbing/bouncing is still there if the piston is retracted
Interesting, in playing around to make a ship with pistons in all directions I found the longer length of extension helped, but I didn't actually test the piston retracted to see if you still get any benefit.. I should have done that :P
Splitsie could be interesting. If the results are interesting then it would be great to see (of course I try myself) however your precision is better
Wonder if part armor/ part small wheels can protect those weak points. This looks interesting tho, thx 4 the update on the update :D
You're very welcome! :)
Maybe spacing out your internal components with armor or wheels or whatever might protect things better?
You should Note the Center of Gravity, I find it looks like your batteries are at the focus of... test to see if that may be the "end" of force transmission?
That's possible, it's also really handy to not the centre of gravity for placing pistons so your ship can bounce and still by flyable :)
So, locking landing gear cancels inertia? Then you may be able to make a nearly guaranteed crash arrestor by putting an auto-lock landing gear on an extended piston. The compression of the piston gives the landing gear more time to detect locking proximity and engage the lock. I'm going to have to do some testing of my own now.
Bad idea after all. The landing gear phases into the ground and violently awakens Klang.
lol I thought it might, but it was probably fun to test :D
+Splitsie great tests - as ever. Had you considered using rotors as a shock absorbers? Much lower profile than pistons and from my tests at least, surprisingly good at damage reduction
I started doing that, then realised it might be more fun to do a separate video on making shock absorbing landing gear with either rotors or suspension :)
Also, if you manage to make one feel free to share it as I haven't gotten so far as to have a working prototype yet :P
In theory you could make a rotor+piston combo at each corner. When facing forward/backward, the landing surfaces would act as bumpers; when facing down of course you could land on them. And like with your parachute video, I think the trick would be to place them symmetrically relative to the ship's center of mass.
Was looking for a video like this
I do my best to keep you covered ;)
the impression i get from these tests is as you suspect damage travels along connected blocks, the central battery fails because it takes impact from all contact blocks. the cockpit takes a bit of damage from just the front blocks, the rear takes the rear but the central takes from both front and rear so its twice the damage and it fails from the accumulation. i think you could get a bigger craft to survive as the impact would be spread over more blocks and not overlapping the damage leading to failure
Exactly what I was thinking. I'm interested to try a ship with spaced out critical systems to see if adding armor between can limit any damage to just 1 or 2 systems even if there is a failure :)
yeah i think that if it was fully understood how the damage is applied then with that knowledge a craft could be designed to be able to take far more damage.
i was also very interested to see how effective the pogostick was, sure it bounced around a little strangly but id like to see how effective a piston landing gear system would be on a larger ship say the talisman, could you get away with a hard(ish) landing with a bunch of piston legs to bounce off or would the extra weight just bust them too easy. where is the line of effectiveness for pistons both in terms of speed and weight?
btw your testing was very good and im glad you covered this subject as i have yet to try the new physics and was checking videos to see what to expect from the changes, you did a great job as always to look into it.
Thanks Steven :)
I'll have to attempt the construction of a piston based landing gear, see if I can get it to support the mass of a large grid ship...
Damage doesn’t travel through blocks sadly. The reason batteries get destroyed is they, as well as every other functional blocks, don’t deform. When a voxel creates an ice chunk in their volume they just get flat out destroyed. Basically what happens when you have a loose gyro in a ship.
you should dimension the platforms so you get a known impact velocity ... if its implemented correctly it should scale quadratically with velocity.
I might do something like that in the future as I want to test dropping things onto armor and seeing how much it deforms
13:09
"Hmmm, maybe that first drop was just a bad drop"
Yeah, true, and I suppose people will unfortunately get those kinds of drops every once in a while.
Some drops will be alright, little to no damage.
Others, well, they might lose a good portion of their stuff, or even simply split in two like what was shown to just happen earlier.
Luck certainly plays a fairly decent role, particularly making sure you land as close to flat as possible. In addition to the recordings I normally test a few times in case my recorded results are way off from the normal - just in case luck wasn't on my side :)
Im sorry to keep going on but half expected a boing sound added for the piston pogo haha!
Supposedly they increased the range of laser antennas with this update as well haven't had a chance to check that out myself yet though. But i did notice about 30 fps and i have never had more than 20 before
Awesome! I'm glad you're starting to see some nice performance :)
And yeah, the laser antennae are supposed to be 200km now which potentially makes them very useful
200km nice that will help me out a ton considering i am planing on setting up a communications network between earth and mars. And hopefully that increased fps will be just enough for me to try recording a video on monday but if that does not work then i may have to show you the space drone set up the same way we did the planet cargo drone last time but this time its a mining ship
Yep, in the dev Rexxar even mentioned using the laser antenna's new range to help with relays from planet to planet :)
as promised here is the video its not very good but I hope that It will explain the space docking well enough that you will be able to make a much better tutorial on it than I can th-cam.com/video/vWqUozVGg5E/w-d-xo.html anyway looks like you tube made the video much quieter then it originally was, anyway let me know if this was helpful enough if not we can try something else
Interesting to see how sometimes blocks break off instead of exploding.
It's a nice touch creating all that extra shrapnel :)
can you please do a tutorial on mouse controlled rotors ?
I'll add it to my list :)
I think the piston was bouncing becuase, the force of the impact pushed it back a little then it pushed back out, basically creating a spring
I think you're right, though I was really surprised to see them working that way since they've always behaved in ways totally foreign to the physics we experience in real life :P
14:42 "Team Rocket blasts off agaaaaain ~~ !"
lol :)
So in essence, you could make retractable landing gear with pistons at high velocities.
Assuming you can correct for them messing up your controls, I'm interested to find out just how fast a collision they'll take...
My initial reaction to seeing the piston results was that’d be perfect for a helicopter
You can now do a back to the future delorean with this physics update
That would look pretty cool :)
Do a pair of pogo sticks on the talisman !!! I wanna see that drop !!
I might be planning on doing that at some point in the future ;)
i suspect that the damage is something like
the mass and velocity at time of impact = impact value
the point of impacted blocks
each block has a impact value threshold (impact value above this level causes damage and the higher above the level means more damage)
and each block has a impact dispersal value (so the impact value doesnt just run through your entire ship)
so like
a line of blocks flying straight into the ground creates a impact value of 10
all the blocks are the same and has a threshold of 2 and a dispersal of 1 and a health of 5
so the impact would cause 8 points of damage to the first block. destroying it and losing one point of impact value
the next would be 7 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value
6 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value
5 damage and another destroyed block and lessened impact value
and then 4 and the blocks would start surviving
at least thats what i think the games doing
as for the path the impact value takes
could be something like from the block of impact to the center of gravity
watching you crash that talisman makes me think that its more likely that the health of block is the same as the dispersion value
so each destroyed block would take away its health worth of impact value
So now connectors are posessed by clang?
And trees, Clang is possessing trees now too!
try the following thing, attach 6x wheel suspensions on each side of a Block, then let them fall from different highs,... dont now about the changes of the last Updates, but 4 week ago i used these method to check what is the best protection from falling, so the wheels from the wheels suspension are very strong, from hit from side,... so they are a good protection
The wheels seem even better than they used to be if anything, especially since you can actually control a flying craft that has them now :)
so btw realy thanks for your Video from 23.08.2017:
"Space Engineers Tutorial: LCD Panels, Import Images..." and the information about the tool called SEImage2LCD.
because of that, i was able to made some amazing status scripts for Space Engineers, i release some of them on december,...
Awesome, I love hearing that those tutorials have helped people do things I didn't expect with them. And that is one awesome tool as well :)
If the scripts might end up useful in my survival make sure you link them so I can take a look
i will give you a Message :-)
So here's the Call...
I made 3 Scripts because of the Idea, that i get through your Video and the Converter, the first Script is out now ;-), i'm realy happy with it, here is the Link to my Video:
th-cam.com/video/cbfwXqCVVAo/w-d-xo.html
In the Description you find the link to the Steam-Workshop,... Will be nice if you link my channel when you make an review of it,... thanks and i hope you like it too.
Btw, my interesting experience with enhanced physics: no speed limit mod works way better now so I crashed into planet with speed of about 4km per second. My ship didn't even break. It instantly disappeared. Surprisingly my game didn't crash, but I fell into planet. And couldn't get out without drilling. That might be a way to get into planet's core though.
They seem to have greatly optimised the collision calculations so I'm not surprised that the speed mods are working better - you probably don't want to phase through the planet's surface every time though :P
I just put a cage over part to be protected and weird plates that stick out to absorb impact if I crash or land badly. Landing gears are good too. Thrusters are expensive. Landing gear on end of piston. For my next trick! I will make this space ship disappear!
Especially when landing gear on piston collides with ground at high speed - mostly what I've seen you end up impailed on the voxels :P
lol and everything starts shaking and exploding
It's because it's spawning Ice INSIDE of a component.... When it deforms the voxel, it sometimes makes Ice, with no room for it to spawn except inside the test blocks, which is why your batteries are exploding.
Try again, but impacting on a surface that doesn't spawn objects. It doesn't make a difference, considering most likely impacts, but it's relevant for future updates if Keen change that.
I did exactly that: th-cam.com/video/2_moIKy0pJQ/w-d-xo.html and it turns out you were spot on!
does having the platforms near each other affect it?
I don't believe so. The voxels were all flat in the different landing sites so out shouldn't have changed things :)
14:42 team rocket flying off agaaaiiiiin
If only we could harness that launch for good...
it's a bit odd that the crumble zone didn't get harmed even though it had a smaller surface witch should have made it more fragile.
Yeah, it's a bit strange. I retested a few of the drops in a second video that helped make things behave a bit more predictably - by dropping onto heavy armor
new impact physics are #odlysatisfying xD
Aren't they ever, that's why I couldn't resist dropping all those ships :P
"It's not gonna happen mate. That's a whopping ball of burg."
"Just try it. Hit the beat hard and together!"
"I know how to hit things hard ok. And I'm telling you, the impact force of compact ice, UNDER PRESSURE IS!"
"Just give it a go you big wuss!"
"WHY!"
Not exactly sure why this immediately came to mind when I saw splitsie dropping cars.
Physics no longer extend with infinite force, but now a calculated adjustable force. In essence they are a realistic piston. so yes they can be shock absorbers
The weird part about them is that blocks attached to the end of the pistons are a lot more durable than standard blocks.. I wonder if they'll change that any time soon? It's entertaining while they behave this way though :P
In fact, subgrids are now infinitely durable... as long as they only collide with their own grid. Yep, collision damage is ignored entirely between attached subgrids, but not for separate grids. So you could have something that presses in to the side of your craft from your craft and be fine, but not if that thing comes from an external source.
Yep, and for some reason that's also made subgrids more resilient to all types of damage making a sunroof landing mechanism a very tempting prospect
You're sure it's subgrids and not just grids in general? The pistons might have just survived because they can act like a suspension and give a bit under the impact, not because the head and attached blocks are more durable.
It seems to be, but maybe that's something worth testing, I might try to come up with a rig to check that out :)
I tried to build something on the ground (not in it) and it gust sunk into the ground and took damage
That sounds like you might have been playing on a multiplayer server... I haven't experienced that sort of thing in single player in an incredibly long time. If it was single player I'd try placing a single block into the voxels and then building from a landing gear that's attached to that block - the initial station type block is helpful as it means everything can be level with gravity :)
I was playing offline
They should make more voxel damage so it actually looks really impressive and scars your map, also add the terminator theme song somewhere 😂
It would be nice to be able to create a more impressive crater :)
Giant pogo stick of destruction. Landing gear fix to piston! Wheels fix to piston will not power.
Bouncing things on pistons is always fun - regardless of the level of destruction :P
At the 20m test your ships tilted down from the front that’s why they got destroyed like that you may want to check your video to see
As it turns out (I've tested this in my latest video) the results were actually due to the rubble being spawned by the damaged voxels. The pieces of rubble spawned where the batteries were and the batteries lost :(
Cool ending scene
Thanks, it was a lot of fun to do :)
I like this test. :)
Thanks, some of my thoughts on it weren't quite right so I've revisited it since in another video, also played around with the piston shock absorbers which work ridiculously well :)
From what I’ve been able to test it seems like most collision damage is caused by rocks being generated inside the ship when crashing into voxels which pretty much vaporizes everything beside them. Piston nonsense is a laughable side effect of subgrids not damaging ships. There are a lot of issues with damage still. Ships are receiving collision damage in internal places not touched by said collisions.
I think you're right, but I'm still going to have fun testing it ;)
I need to play around with the pistons a little more, I want to see just how silly I can get with them
What if you put the batteries on a rotor? Putting it on that might just save the batteries :)
I think that's something I'll need to test. Adding your critical systems to rotors for protection is so counter to my earlier thinking (due to clang) that it seems completely insane :P
... But it just might work!
If its stupid but it works it's not stupid ;)
Still having issues with pistons and rotors..... :(
They're certainly not perfect, but they work in more situations than they used to which is nice. Though they're still pretty poor performers in multiplayer from what I've been hearing, that's mostly unchanged
I think that was surprise at 11:21
Yep, totally unexpected. I used to run my tests before recording but I think it's more fun to record at the same time - especially when weird things happen :P
Thanks!
You're welcome :)
I perceive two reasons why you get different results.
1. The ice is not smooth so you hit it always at an angle angle.
2. The physics engine is not consistent.
My laurels are on the first. Cus math's math.
I think both of those may contribute, though I suspect that the ice is flat enough that its surface isn't the problem but rather where a voxel boundary may lie and where the ship hits it. This would change where any debris is generated and change the damage that gets applied
I made a ship that had landing gear on the end of two extended pistons and while going back to the planet accidentally turned off the ship. What happened was that I landed flat on the landing gear and bounced about 100 meters in the air.
The ship was also mostly intact just some broken landing gear and pistons.
It's pretty impressive how well they can work as shock absorbers now :)
That piston thing happens with my dropship that uses conveyor hinge mod
The joys of the Space Engineers phantom force :P
Splitsie lol yep
Hmm this seems to explain why my buggy with a roll cage significantly less impact damage than my armored buggy
Is there also a significant weight difference between the two?
You didnt test the one component that always seem to survive my lawn dart incidents: Air vents are always found lying far from the crater, just fine.
That's weird, do you happen to put them mostly on the top of your ship or are they just incredibly lucky little buggers? :P
always on the "chin" of a cockpit, and therefore the first thing to run into a cliff wall/armor block
That's very strange, next time I do some impact resistance testing I'm definitely going to be including them :)
Or if you're not on discord share it on the steam group for Light Echoes
Block collisions instead of the ground but with another block
I'm thinking of repeating the tests with blocks to see if the spawning of the damaged voxel bits was contributing to what we saw with the batteries failing
Man, idk. I like that they are trying to fix it. But you would think that when you slam a ship into a rock wall that it wouldn’t function. Before it would be totally destroyed. As Capitals jack said. I feel like we just went back to what it was. Nothing actually improved in a noticeable way.
8:19 very late but I found an editing fail
Oops! Didn't mean to cut myself off there :P
Great Grand Finally.
Thanks, it was quite a bit of fun :)
Just realized that the background music is from Sins of A Solar Empire
It shouldn't be, all the music I used in this video is Space Engineers original sound track...
You're like the DARPA of space engineers
Thanks! At least if you mean I make any sort of crazy contraption even if it only has a small chance of being functional :P
Hooi, i think the spawning bubbles of ice... Ish doing the random battery
Yep, you're right. I went back and tested it in a video the following week after a few people suggested the same thing. You're quicker than I was :P