Shaping a Tool Spacer Block

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 530

  • @arduinoversusevil2025
    @arduinoversusevil2025 6 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    It's good to see a pro struggle through the learning curve. Thanks for sharing Adam!

    • @elitearbor
      @elitearbor 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Makes me feel better about puzzling things out in the shop, too. Like anything in life, it just takes practice runs!

    • @roderickwhitehead
      @roderickwhitehead 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      AvE - If you ain't learnin', ya ain't livin!

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks bud! My struggles are yours to watch. 👍🏻

  • @bostedtap8399
    @bostedtap8399 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Hi Adam, great work on the shaper, my first machine I trained on during my apprenticeship mid 1970's, then ran again in the machine shop. If I may suggest that when running the jaws parallel to the stroke, several areas in gripping the part need to improved, use of "Hold Downs", ( these are non-right angled triangular stepped sections approximately length of vice), lightly knurled or roughed parallels, paper, yes PAPER, to increase friction. Remember, all the machining force is inline with the ram, where as in a mill, the load is a combination of axial and perpendicular. The HSS blanks as grip parallels would not afforded much grip. Copper or Aluminium sheet can act as a good friction increased.
    On a more scientific note: look up friction coefficient of various steels to steels, and other materials, it will surprise you as to how much the resultant grip is compared to clamping force. (As a Friction Welding Engineer, coefficient of friction very much plays a key part).
    Great channel, we are very lucky to have someone with your skills and mindset to share.

  • @lemagreengreen
    @lemagreengreen 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Thanks for the video.
    I'm not a machinist, I come at these videos as a near-layman but they're so satisfying to watch. I love the attention to detail and precision that is - of course - a feature of machining and I find the machines fascinating, great to watch and very satisfying. This is a great machine, I could watch this sort of thing for hours.
    I like how everything has to be just right I think! Maybe I'm in the wrong career...

  • @FredMiller
    @FredMiller 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thanks for sharing your learning process with us. When I was learning my Atlas shaper like you I quickly learned to slow the stroke and reduce the feed rate. I think the "speed & feed" tables in reference books were optimized for removing as much material as possible as quickly as possible for maximum profit for the machine. For me my shaper is a relaxing way to make parts "old school" no speed needed. Great series Adam... Keep up the good work..

  • @raincoast2396
    @raincoast2396 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for including us on your shaper journey Adam. Your increased editing skills are becoming very good.

  • @TadTadd
    @TadTadd 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That was so cool. Thanks for sharing your “baby steps” with the machine. We all go through a learning process with new equipment, but so many TH-cam videos show perfectly executed (and edited) work. And I totally get why you wanted a shaper.

  • @markschwarz2137
    @markschwarz2137 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Using tools to make tools to hold tools to make better tools to hold tools to make more tools etc. and then realizing you can do it better... That's how we got to the age of technology from hammering things with rocks. Keep it up man, and keep posting the videos.

  • @rfazio2009
    @rfazio2009 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Adam, I'm no expert but I have a shaper and have been playing with it. My thinking on the chatter is that you have the tool holder in backwards. I may be wrong and the tool holder may not fit the other way, but if it does try it. The big end and the tool bit should be in the back. Now when the cutter digs in the tool raises and takes a slightly less of a cut. The way you have it causes the cutter to dig in and take a deeper cut with the slight flexing of the holder. It's the same idea as a lathe, where you have the cutter at the center of the work. As the cutter digs in and the tool flexes down it takes less of a cut from the work.

  • @kappullen
    @kappullen 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I would turn the tool holder around 180 degrees so the tool is behind center so that the tool might spring out of the cut under pressure instead of digging in.
    The metal cutting planers we had in the old days, had goose necked tools to eliminate the dig in.
    They worked like a spring Armstrong parting tool holder.

    • @balahmay
      @balahmay 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I wondered what that goose neck design was for. Thanks for sharing.

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm waiting for a spring tool to arrive. Looking forward to trying it out.

    • @rickbrandt9559
      @rickbrandt9559 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Think I sent you a spring/goose neck awhile back.

  • @artm5294
    @artm5294 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have been an accountant all of my working life (40 + yrs) now retired, so I am accustomed to perfection. Ie: everything has to balance. It just can't be close. I now putter around with wood working projects. I really appreciate your videos and have a whole new appreciation of "accuracy" and patience and plan to be more patient and accurate in my wood working projects. Thanks!

  • @ls2005019227
    @ls2005019227 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Really enjoyed the video. Two things: a piece of paper between the work/vise will help with friction in the absence of solidly blocking the part in. The bit you ground was essentially a large parting tool (which may/may not chatter inevitability) but should perform better if you could flip that armstrong tool holder 180° or use a gooseneck holder; both will allow the tool bit to flex away from the work, as opposed to digging in and chattering. When you grind that 1" bit, make sure that you have enough edge for a 1-1/2" cut, because I'm serious that I believe it won't be a problem for the old girl. Thanks for another great video!

  • @franktimpano802
    @franktimpano802 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hadn't seen or thought much about a metal shaper since we had one in "Wood and Metal Shop" class in 1968. We never used it in that class,, though we did use the metal lathes a lot. I've been a hobbyist furniture maker and woodworker for 50 years, but recently got my first Logan metal lathe and a Bridgeport mill. Have expanded my hobby to include metal working and have really enjoyed your videos. Really neat to see that shaper working. Thanks for sharing your avocation with the rest of us.

  • @yambo59
    @yambo59 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Really enjoying watching you bring the shaper back to a productive life, shes an old girl but quality built and im totally certain you'll get her tweaked out and dialed in very soon. I love anything from this era when stuff was overbuilt to work hard and last long. After watching shop vids the last few years I wish I had become a machinist all those years ago instead of a mechanic and factory worker - machine work is so much more interesting and rewarding. Thanks for sharing all the vids Adam.

  • @chrisclark4813
    @chrisclark4813 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Really enjoyed the video.
    I love the shaper as a machine, as you do,... but the shaper is a roughing machine, prior to milling or even turning in some cases.
    Sorry to sound negative, whilst absolutely loving seeing a shaper being used, no real need to clock the vice, or hone the tool.
    You love big cuts, brilliant, fire those smoking chips across the shop, then finish on another machine tool..
    Loads of love, more shaper vid's please.

    • @bcbloc02
      @bcbloc02 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Most all old large mills and other machine tables were machined on big planers which work just like a shaper so they certainly can do high class finish work. I have books showing a 2" wide finishing face cutting tool, the DOC for those was listed at .001-003". They stepped over the full 2" every stroke though. That is moving some material and leaving a smooth finish.

  • @rolliekelly6783
    @rolliekelly6783 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have supreme confidence you will figure it out. I always seem to learn more from my failures than my successes.
    I wonder if that is why I'm always learning,
    Rollie

  • @bcbloc02
    @bcbloc02 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I am sure learning that things sweet spots will be a fun adventure but take some time. Looking forward to following along and learning some too. :-)

  • @johnnyholland8765
    @johnnyholland8765 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think you are off to a good start..... Anything new is always done with a learning curve. Keep us posted!

  • @flatheadronsgarage7345
    @flatheadronsgarage7345 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well done with style, can’t beat old school. You inspire me to learn more. Thanks

  • @lindakasevich7611
    @lindakasevich7611 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Back in the 70's I was in trade school. I was in the Tool and Die shop. We would have a challenge with the Machine shop students on size of chips on the shaper. and lathe. Your video brought back many good memories. Thank-you

  • @williamsquires3070
    @williamsquires3070 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hey Adam, I’ll bet it feels real good to make those first “real work” chips on your lovingly restored G&E shaper. I’m sure your dad is real proud of you!

  • @DavidChristal
    @DavidChristal 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    90 degrees on the vice. Period. Your channel/insight is priceless! Thank you Adam.

  • @purerhodium
    @purerhodium 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes!!! I've been waiting to see this machine in action. Great video as always, love how we get to learn along with you.

  • @dougbourdo2589
    @dougbourdo2589 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Always something oddly satisfying about watching the shaper work

  • @austinayforti5921
    @austinayforti5921 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've got so much stuff that I should be doing right now but I'm stuck here watching this. The shaper is hypnotic to watch.

  • @MrSinner86
    @MrSinner86 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome! Trial and error man. Great video! Watching this machine come to life and do work has been great to watch. Thanks Adam!

  • @aytonbob
    @aytonbob 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Adam you never stop learning, it’s trial and error.

  • @eagle1333
    @eagle1333 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I could watch that machine run all day....

  • @johnwilson3668
    @johnwilson3668 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The vibration you are experiencing could be similar to a job I did on a lathe with a 3 inch wide form tool. The tool had radii, chamfers and undercuts .The tool was sent out to be ground and it was like a razor blade . The vibration was horrific .
    I scratched my head for a minute and thought of the solution ,I just rubbed the cutting edge lightly with a stone .Perfect .
    It was short of cutting pressure. The tool was too sharp

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I experience that with new endmills sometimes.

  • @pearcemachineshop5200
    @pearcemachineshop5200 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I get the shaper, your doing the right thing Adam if you do nothing you don’t learn, I think your problem is the tool shape just think what would happen if you did the same plunge cut with that size of tool on your lathe, chatter chatter chatter, but I’m just guessing keep going you’ll soon be there.
    Alan.

  • @phineasrumson3116
    @phineasrumson3116 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I remember doing a shaper project in HS machine shop many decades ago; we had to do a piece on each of the machine tools before we were allowed to work on a machine shop project. Fond memories of these times, sadly, most high schools have eliminated any trade courses; what a pity.

  • @Teunbaartman1
    @Teunbaartman1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    furthermore: the step over method to make a slot is preferable to cutting the slot in one cut. the step over method is more accurate and you will experience less chatter with a narrower tool.
    cheers
    Teun

  • @mertonsilliker3686
    @mertonsilliker3686 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    New road, new day. It will come. Amazing machine

  • @boelwerkr
    @boelwerkr 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    If you want to dig in like that you need a really tight shaper head with no tool overhang. The slightest bit of pay or elasticity will make the tool jump. Locking down the clapper box will help. The best way to overcome the problem is to use a smaller tool or grind a tool with shear action.
    The reason is that the sideway play in a shaper is much less than the play back and forth.

  • @FredFred-wy9jw
    @FredFred-wy9jw 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have a small porter cable 7” shaper with the same backlash problem ... neutral or negative rake is the only solution to chatter I have found. With neutral rake I have cut several internal key ways (till I acquired a broach set and press). I successfully cut a slot in 4140 steel plate with negative rake ... small cut lots of time and fun

  • @loganpe427
    @loganpe427 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You answered my question from the first video here, the back stroke _"is"_ faster. I thought it was a visual illusion. On the cut it trades speed for torque!

  • @thomaskramer2266
    @thomaskramer2266 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Hi Adam!
    This is a linear lathe. So use your experience from there...
    Would you do a plunge cut that wide (30:40) with so much tool overhang on the lathe?

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I believe these machines will handle it. I have seen too many pictures in books and online for it not to work. I just have to figure it out.

  • @TheWiseTorsk
    @TheWiseTorsk 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always enjoy watching a shaper work. It's just elegant the way it goes at it.

  • @buddylineman
    @buddylineman 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey Adam, I ran into the same thing. If I don't lock the compound down it will push up and not cut good, also try grinding your tool at an angle like a shear tool, that helps me get a better finish. Anyway it's great to see the old girl in action.

  • @486kyle
    @486kyle 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Got a 16" smith mills backgeared.
    Negative rake is the only way I can get away from the chatter and the tool slide pulling down into the cut. Even when you lock down the tool slide, it still pulls on the running clearance of the ram ways.
    Even with HSS, go to a neutral or slightly negative rake angle and it'll cut better.
    ETA: google up "vertical shear bit" it'll give you an almost surface ground finish. On my shaper it even shows the teeth of the bull gear in the surface finish when using one of those.

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Interesting, I'll try some neutral rake tools and see how it does. The shear tool is coming soon. One step at a time.

  • @MR6.5
    @MR6.5 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a fun project! Not sure I would ever find a use for one in my shop but it is a cool piece of history you have restored! Thanks for the video.

  • @risfutile
    @risfutile 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Shaping up nicely!

  • @paulatkins894
    @paulatkins894 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Since College machine shop experience I've always wanted one. Nice to see the resurrection of such a machine.

  • @smiffy008b
    @smiffy008b 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Not worked on a shaper since I was an apprentice in the 60's . Nice to see them blue metal chips again !

  • @Teunbaartman1
    @Teunbaartman1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    In my experience you have ground to much backrake in your slotting tool. It should be a very shallow backrake, something like 2 or 3 degrees, otherwise the danger of chatter is large.
    cheers
    Teun

  • @SneerfulWizard
    @SneerfulWizard 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watching the hammer correction of a real man's vise as it were is damn impressive. Good work man, looked like magic from my house

  • @reallycoooool
    @reallycoooool 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hi! I love the shaper videos! I just wonder if the chatter is inevitable when the pressure becomes that high with the bit hitting the toolsteel with a contact «surface» that great? The forces can not be contained and the clapper is forced up to eleviate tha mechanical stress. The clapper acts as a security release «valve» as an analogy. Ingenious to avoid a serious accident or mechanical failiure.

  • @ramsay19481
    @ramsay19481 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    My 14" Steptoe will "creep down" as well if the tool head is not securely locked and the screw backed out against the nut....Nice machine.. Wish mine was as nice! Mike in Louisiana

  • @Eggsr2bcrushed
    @Eggsr2bcrushed 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    One thing to bear in mind: H13 likes to turn pretty colors way quicker than other tool steels like P20 and S7, so you might feel like you are going too fast when you really aren't. Source: cutting tool steel all day every day

  • @30cal4me
    @30cal4me 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I started using that book in grade 9 machine shop. Still use it from time to time 40 yrs later as a tool & die maker running machines @ work. Great book to have.

  • @JP-kk5vw
    @JP-kk5vw 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is your best video yet. Nice job.

  • @cichlidmark
    @cichlidmark 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i really enjoyed this video man, watching you figure stuff out through trial and error while machining was very interesting to watch, keep up the good work brother

  • @ChirpysTinkerings
    @ChirpysTinkerings 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I usually keep my gibs pretty tight on the down feed, that way it wont slip down on me when cutting harder materials and such like that. The form tools like the keyway tool that your using to cut the grooves in the part, they tend to chatter in harder materials. Ive found that if you have any real top rake on the tools like that, it'll want to chatter, but I'd try experimenting on the angle of the top rake. Every shaper is different, so it may fix it for you.
    I need to make a few of the tool spacer blocks myself for my shaper, I just pack the tool using another piece of HSS, but you try loosening it up to change the angle of the tool, and it'll want to fall out on you while trying to adjust everything.

  • @lookcreations
    @lookcreations 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Adam, that's a great video. Plenty of good advice in the comments below, especially that from Forrest' . Plenty to learn. For my two cents, check your ram ways clearance . Extend the ram out to and put a dti to see how much movement you can get pulling it around. Then check your tool head slide ways for the same. Finally check the movement on your tool bit when the clapper is seated. Add that lot all up and that's what is working against you when taking cuts in slots. I'm in the process of sorting the clapper box and taper pin wear out. Something I never checked out on my shaper after its refurbishment. ... still kicking myself for missing it. All the very best and thanks for sharing. Mat

  • @joe2mercs
    @joe2mercs 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Adam A great video exploring the working envelope of the shaper? The fabricated ‘T’ spacer blocks you fitted behind the cutting tool, is it possible to fit the cutting tool behind the spacer? It seems to me that the less overhang the shaper tool has before it encounters the work piece the more rigid the configuration and the more uniform the cut. The chatter and wash-boarding of the tool steel work piece is certainly due to the hardness of material but perhaps also the cutting angle of the tool. Might be interesting to make a series of different cutting angles and reliefs and try them at different speeds to get an idea of feed rate, cutting angle and work piece hardness just as you do for turning stock in a lathe.

  • @matthatton1007
    @matthatton1007 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Jar of big blue chips viewer giveaway would be really cool.

  • @arnomaas6452
    @arnomaas6452 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Adam , you have done a fine job once again , good luck further refining the shaper !

  • @stefanrichter9162
    @stefanrichter9162 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You try to make a square cut with a square tool , so the edge of the tool is touching with its whole width at the same moment. That produces the shatter. Give your tool a slight angle , lets say 5º , so it cuts first on one side of the tool and than makes a shearing cut over the whole width.

  • @roderickwhitehead
    @roderickwhitehead 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Speeds and feeds recommendations aside... part of what you need to watch is your tool bounce after the return stroke. It will bounce a couple times with certain setups and can screw up where and how the tool engages the part on the cutting stroke... a minor adjustment of the speed will get things "juuuuuust right".

  • @northcommtechnologies2522
    @northcommtechnologies2522 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! really looking forward to you working on the shaper head and continuing the restoration of that great old machine

  • @davida1hiwaaynet
    @davida1hiwaaynet 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Really interesting machine! I hadn't heard of a shaper until about a year ago and this is the first time I've seen one in use. I can imagine it will take some learning.

  • @ericrichards5862
    @ericrichards5862 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Adam,
    I have enjoyed watching your videos and just finished an earlier one about Paul's toolbox and in the video there was a Blue Point tool that you called a scribe. I have one of those which I purchased new from Snap-On about 40 years ago. I don't know if anyone told you but it's actually a automatic center punch. Just push it against a piece of metal and it spring loads a center mark no hammer required.

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yep, I figured that out after that video. I now have tow of them. Thanks,

  • @forrestaddy9644
    @forrestaddy9644 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The clapperbox is nearly straight up an down. That's why it's banging. The constant banging will jar the backlash out of the leadscrew on the compound slide unless you over-tighten the slide lock. Tilt the clapper box about 15-30 degrees; the banging will stop and the slide won't drift. Finishing vertical adjustments in the up direction will help but it's still not a good idea to let the clapperbox bang..
    Yup, that breed of tool steel is tough and abrasive. 50 FPM might be a little fast for HSS. Next gear down, maybe two, light brown chips..
    Yup, 0.010" downfeed on that side tool is too big a whack. The music the tool (Grun-n-k!) made on the 0.004" downfeed? That's the tool deflecting and trying to tuck under the clappedbox: "dig in". Turn that Armstrong #42 around and cut with the tool trailing. Tool deflection tries to relieve the cut No more than 0.003 down feed. Trust me, I have years on planers and shapers.
    Try a relieved center slotting tool for finishing slot bottoms.

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Forrest Addy It was straight only for the slotting op. I always have it tilted otherwise.

    • @lookcreations
      @lookcreations 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Forrest Addy thanks for the info, going to nail that on the wall above my shaper. All the best Mat

    • @carlquib
      @carlquib 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree with Forrest, turn your tool holder around so the tool is closer to being in line with the pivot on your clapper box. The way you are running the tool holder, when it deflects, the tool is digging into the work. If it is turned around as the tool deflects the tool will come out of the cut, helping to eliminate the digging in(pulling the backlash down) and chatter problem. There should be a lock on your tool slide too, I use mine on heavy cuts and especially on the finish pass.

    • @literoadie3502
      @literoadie3502 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Forrest Addy Is it a bad idea to flip the tool holder backwards to get the cutting edge closer to the pivot point of the clapper? Only problem I can see is the cutting forces are now going into the tool clamp instead of the body of the tool holder, but that shouldn't make a difference should it?

    • @forrestaddy9644
      @forrestaddy9644 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Lite Roadie It's a lose a littte gain a lot situation - and, by the way - one uniquely suited to the Armstrong 42 holder Adam is using in this video because of its immensely stout clamp and the support to gives to the tool when employed in the tool trailing direction. You'd lose a little trailing the tool because of the clamp as you said but you'd gain a lot trailing the tool because deflection tends to relieve the depth of cut. You could not effectively use an Armstrong 4-S lathe tool holder in the trailing mode because the built-in tool rake angle makes a usable slotting tool almost impossible to grind. The Armstrong T-4-S would work because it's made for the brazed on carbide tools of the time: the tool is presented parallel to the shank's mounting face.
      Any who wish a glimpse of machine shop history should Google a PDF for Armstrong Tool Catalog C39 in www.toolarchives.com
      Everything is made of rubber. Here's an assignment in visualization: model a clapper, toolholder, and tool in clay. Do a careful job so that everything is in proportion and accurately represented. Position the model flat on the table top and have a square and some sticks handy. Arrange the model with the tool leading, simulate a cutting force by gently pushing the tool down vertically with the end of a stick. Sight past the tool at the beam of the square you placed nearby to represent the cut plane. Note the tool edge as the tool deflects increasing the depth of the cut. Now turn the tool over and perform the same experiment using the same force. Note the tool deflects the same amount but away from the cut plane reducing the depth of cut.
      Adam is doing agood job. He's demonstrating all the classic noob shaper mistakes and fixing them showing what happens and how it happens. You shaper noobs should pay close attention.
      He's duplicating almost exactly my experience as a new apprentice in 1961. Eldon Strive, my mentor, earned his keep and then some trying to keep me in one piece and at the same time pound a little trade lore into my head through the densest bone in the animal kingdom.

  • @deej19142
    @deej19142 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    What a fascinating machine! This is as cool as it gets.

  • @paulmace7910
    @paulmace7910 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for sharing with us. My money for the cause of the chatter is either the clapper box or the downfeed screw. The same slop in that downfeed mechanism that causes the tool to dig in when locked may be allowing the tool to jump up and down when the power feed (down) is engaged.

  • @shoots2001
    @shoots2001 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You could wind the depth past the depth you want then wind it up to required depth to remove backlash maybe?

  • @andrewterry8092
    @andrewterry8092 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Adam, love the shaper videos, I'm hoping Wednesday becomes a new shaper video day. Thanks again.

  • @clham612
    @clham612 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Tool chatter and other ills come partly from the tool position. In your last shaper video there was a comment that talked about the tool being backwards. Couldn't figure out what that meant until I talked to an old timer today. He was complaining that I had the tool HOLDER in my shaper backwards. Well, I'm using the same tool holder that you are using and it should have the NUT end facing the work. That places the tool at the back nearer the clapper's pivot point. This reduces chatter and gives the clapper a little more time to return to the "ready" position. Try that. It seemed to help on my work.

    • @waynep343
      @waynep343 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      that makes total sense.. with the cutting edge way out in front. the pivot is allowing the cutting edge to come upward on the hinge..
      i wonder also how tight the hinge pin is in its bore on the clapper.

    • @lookcreations
      @lookcreations 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Right on the money

  • @bullfrogmachine4776
    @bullfrogmachine4776 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Total success👍👍 You'll get on to it👍👍

  • @pewpew215
    @pewpew215 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I was thinking that test part of tool steel maybe the machine didnt like the direction the vice was facing. Because when you made those T slots and the compound started to dig in it was taking a heafty cut with good results.

  • @explorenz5002
    @explorenz5002 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    always a pleasure to watch Adam

  • @donpollard9460
    @donpollard9460 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi, Adam, speaking of why the back-stroke is faster than the work stroke, it has to do with the alignment of the drive shaft: work stroke uses the top of the slide thingy i.e. a long radius, and goes slowly; the return stroke uses the bottom of the slide thingy - a really short radius ,and goes real quick in comparison with the work stroke. An early farm machinery manufacturer in Australia (H.V.MacKay?) who made a wire tie hay baler, offset the drive shaft for the packer, which made the packer go slower on the pack run and fast on the return run to get it out of the way of the plunger, which pushed the hay into the chamber and formed the bale. I thought - wow! - as soon as I saw the mechanism when you first showed us your new 'toy', as I had seen it in operation on our engine function wire tie balers (we had 2!) Admittedly this a variation on that principle - they were real cluey, those early designers!

  • @robertlee9395
    @robertlee9395 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video Adam. I haven't run a shaper in 30 years so I can't be of much help. On your down feed, you gotta go past what you want, then take out the backlash. I'm sure your machine is fine. You're about to learn a lot about grinding tools. Good luck and have fun!

  • @rickcaposell
    @rickcaposell 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Adam great video the shaper that I learned on 20 + years ago lol we had to always go past our number on z depth and go back up in z positive to get backlash out that way keep up the good videos hope this helps

  • @Nullpersona
    @Nullpersona 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Might having something to prevent the part being shaped from sliding help? Perhaps rotating the table 90 degrees, so that the cutting tool bit is perpendicular to the clamp and/or another method of securing more of the directions of travel of the part, to eliminate that as a possibility. Pardon my ignorance, if this is a silly suggestion. Getting to know this classic is shaping up to be a new and interesting chapter in the restoration of not only the machine, but the skills and knowledge needed to fully realize its potential!

  • @michaelharris1843
    @michaelharris1843 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Sure, but can it whistle like This Old Tony's?

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Tony's in a whole other league.

  • @lordwolfy
    @lordwolfy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Adam, did tool bit have a negative rake on the x-axis when you ran the last cutting? that would explain why the tool skipped. Because if the cutting edge is parallel to the workpiece the shaper will skip when it cuts, because of the effort.

  • @AstraWerke
    @AstraWerke 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Try rotating the vice so the jaws are perpendicular to the cutting force and use a harsher infeed. I had no problems using a 10mm wide grooving tools and a .1mm/stroke feed on my much smaller shaper. I found Vibrations tend to occur with too little load on the tool.

  • @afnDavid
    @afnDavid 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    A very good example of how to bootstrap. Staring with a basic tool and build more advanced and specialized tools.

  • @bamadondon0495
    @bamadondon0495 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Still a really freakin cool machine. Loved the video definitely keep up the progress!

  • @nicholasceea4109
    @nicholasceea4109 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    All of the metal shops back when I was in Jr. high and high school had shapers and it's nice to see one making chips again. I remember making a flywheel puller for lawnmower engines on the shaper :-)

  • @stevencoldiron3335
    @stevencoldiron3335 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    love to watch these old machines work, I wonder if turning the vice so its pushing the mat. against a solid wall would help. just a thought.

  • @austinwhiteside8486
    @austinwhiteside8486 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like how that big shaper cuts.

  • @derekspender1303
    @derekspender1303 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    A correctly mounted tool bit has its cutting edge directly below the centreline of the clapper pivot pin. If the tool is mounted ahead it will "dig in" and this could be a source of chatter. Most text books describe this with a diagram in their shaper section. To be realistic I have seen very few shapers or planers with the tool in the correct position because this requires a "Cranked" tool. However the tool should be mounted as far back as possible. I think that you put your spacer under the tool. If this is the case then try putting the spacer above the tool bit.

    • @Abom79
      @Abom79  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'll give that a shot, but not making sense for bars for internal shaping.

  • @djorges
    @djorges 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Is turning the vise 90 degrees so the piece can't slide an option?

    • @jonanderson5137
      @jonanderson5137 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Duane Jorges instead of pushing the part out of a very sturdy vice... the energy has to go somewhere. Probably somewhere more critical.

  • @CFLanger
    @CFLanger 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I'm not a machinist but I'm really into your channel. Good work!

  • @CapeCodCNC
    @CapeCodCNC 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Glad to see your having fun with your linear lathe! I think is you had about a 7 degree angle on the leading edge instead of 0 degrees might help with chatter.

  • @markwentland3147
    @markwentland3147 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I have never operated a shaper before i found this to be cool to watch and very informative thx!!

  • @07ram55
    @07ram55 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    H13 is hard stuff very high carbon I make injection molds at work and all our inserts are h13 and all slides are s7 I can’t say I’ve ever tried to cut it with high speed steel carbide cuts it quite well and you can normally get great surface finishes. Love the channel keep it up

  • @jeffryblackmon4846
    @jeffryblackmon4846 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice machine! It's always fun to set up and use a new machine. Great trouble shooting on the vertical backlash problem.

  • @ggordon4127
    @ggordon4127 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    You got it, you got to feel it out as in chapter 10 of the same book, " the shape of the tool varies with the work, type of cut, and condition of the machine."
    All the best.

  • @donpollard9460
    @donpollard9460 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    9:50 - I would say that the hydraulic shaper - to get slow work and fast return would have a very large piston rod to reduce the surface area and thus push the ram back faster with the sane oil delivery volume. Is this so, Adam

  • @ronrinock6943
    @ronrinock6943 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    That Cincinnati in the book is mechanical crank shaper same as the G & E. I have a 1967 24" just like it, they are pretty much like the older Cincinnati models but with updated styling and a few other features such as full pressure lube system, no slot in the top of the ram, automatic lock on the ram position adjustment and probably some other stuff I can't remember. The only hydraulic models I have seen were made by Rockford but there may be others.

  • @chuckbuckets1
    @chuckbuckets1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    on the 1/2 inch holder could you make a new 'cap' to hold square tool bits?

  • @navigatorx1013
    @navigatorx1013 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Could it be the length of the bit vibrating under pressure. Shorten up the bit, perhaps?

  • @gordonagent7037
    @gordonagent7037 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Adam, so you are human after all. Normally I watch your videos and you are so self-assured with the gear you are familiar with but this shaper has been a learning curb for you too and it is nice to see that your processing of problems is probably similar to most of us. I want to see you in 6 months and I know it will be a different story......the young master will have it all off pat. Keep the good videos coming mate

  • @balahmay
    @balahmay 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That is the backlash concern that I commented on in one of the other videos. It will be interesting to see what the best solution is.

  • @robertmccracken72
    @robertmccracken72 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for sharing your new machine. Still a few bugs to work out, but really cool just the same.

  • @Roccoo
    @Roccoo 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love this machine! Truly something that keeps me inspired to learn more about machining!

  • @wlogue
    @wlogue 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey Adam, I used to run a big portable boring bar. It had similar d.o.c. adjustment and similar backlash issues which we called Kentucky windage. I would set my d.o.c. maybe .010"-.020" heavy then back her up so the backlash in the screw would be taken up. It took some messing around at first but once we found the sweet spot it was pretty repeatable. You could cut a 60" bore within about a half a thou. If you snuck up on it. Anyhow thats my 2 cents thank you for all you do, stay safe.

  • @brianbutterfield9891
    @brianbutterfield9891 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video Adam. Keep it up. I know you'll figure it out.