I really do think it's crazy how deeply Aegon's own family has dehumanized him. It's not even loneliness, just straight up not recognizing that he's a person. When they look at Aegon, they don't see Aegon. Just a chess piece. It's a situation entirely devoid of love. And to an extent, they both know how badly Aegon wanted to be validated by the parental figures in his life. He desperately wants to think Viserys chose him, and that's why both Otto and Alicent use it against him.
This is how I feel too. They do everything to make him less human. His own family isn’t even blind to his plight. They know he wants love and they loathed him for it. They weaponize it against him. They don’t want him as a human, only an object for power. He’s someone already in the mud, reaching out a hand for help, and they are kicking him down. I just want him to escape to Essos with Jaehaera and Sunfyre. This family is too toxic.
@@shikenkanadeTrue, but Aegon is also toxic too. Although he did not get much love from both his parents growing up(And I believe he would’ve been a better person if he had), he’s also a bad brother to his siblings, particularly Aemond. If he was nicer to him and Heleana, he would’ve gotten a little bit of a support system from his siblings.
True. And out of all of Alicent’s children, Aegon was the most emotionally vulnerable. He actively sought out her love, while Aemond no longer tolerates her, and Helaena feels barely a thing. When he was burned by Vhagar, he called out “mommy.” When escorted to the Dragonpit, he asked her if she loved him, and in this scene he asks for her support and in turn he’s being judged for his incompetence. It’s so interesting to think about.
@@ojroche5217 He's like the scapegoat of his family. If you read some of the published parts of the script, you can see that Alicent thinks he's weak for crying or being emotional, is irritated or disgusted by it. She doesn't seem to like him much and thus instead of seeing the good in these qualities and trying to help him regulate his emotions, and try to help him develop his empathy, she almost punishes him for it.
Alicent calling Aegon useless and pretending to be wise and smart is rich coming for her when she literally had an easy chance to capture the enemy queen and then just allowed her to leave the sept.
Exactly! We can see where Aegon gets his stupidity from Alicent advising him to rely on her and Otto to run the show is like Hitler calling Putin a maniac 🤣🤣
As awful as Aegon is, I can't help but feel sorry for him in this scene. To hear you are nothing more than a pawn to your own mother and grandfather must feel soul crushing. Even worse when you are told to do nothing while other people do your job for you, even though you legit want to help. If the Greens actually took the time to train Aegon, he wouldn't be what he is now.
@aslfire3710 The Greens should've gone with Aemond from the start, then. Have Aegon renounce his claim and work to put Aemond on the throne. *Unfortunately,* if we're being 100% honest and real, *they never wanted a "king".* *They wanted an ignorant pawn who was incapable of doing anything and would be completely reliant on them to rule.* Except, contrary to their expectations, Aegon did not turn out like that. Now that he's King, he wanted to at least be proactive on his job, but has no experience on the job. *And they dislike it. His decisions and actions puts the Greens in worse and worse situations.* The Small Council only wants Aemond NOW because they're getting desperate to win this war and keep their own power, so f*ck it, let's put the guy who's got some knowledge and more or less align with our strategies! Manipulating the King be damned right now!
@@MrDibarai'd said Aemond was the idiot who put Greens on awful situations: killing Luke, starting an horrible war, Jaehaerys was killed by his kinslaying, let his army got burned just to being spiteful and almost eliminated the only other dragonrider of his team. Greens gonna miss Aegon so much now that Aemond is regent and is gonna fumbling their team further
I found it deeply ironic how Alicent and Otto bemoan the downgrade from Viserys to Aegon but then ignore that Aegon actually had some of Viserys' positive qualities (geniality, desire to help the commonfolk, etc). And we see on multiple occasions he is pretty easily swayed. Instead, they fail him again by demeaning him instead of guiding him.
@@MrDibara Going with Aemond from the beginning doesn't make any sense. The whole reason Alicent started this war was because she thought Viserys wanted Aegon on the throne. Aemond has no claim unless Aegon is dead. Aegon renouncing his claim weakens the Greens and does nothing but make Rhaenyra's claim stronger. And yes, Aemond himself is largely responsible for how badly this has escalated.
This is the shittiest conversation ever. It's tough being team Green. "You should seek our council." So he does: "What would you have me do?" Her: "Nothing." Aegon should have been like: "Oh, go have some more of your abortion tea."
@@highwind8124 What are you talking about, I'm asking if Aegon knows about Alicent's affair with Criston so that him saying "have more abortion tea" makes more sense if you get what I mean
@@highwind8124 I don't get you, if you're asking if Alicent is married then yes she was before with Viserys but after he died she became a widow... If you want Aegon to say Alicent should've drank more of her abortion tea then that would mean Aegon knew about her affair with Criston cole And since I don't watch the show only the clips of it I asked if Aegon knew Alicent is having affair with Criston so it'd make sense
0:34 - 0:49 "They don't care what I think. [...] They pursue their campaign without seeking my aid or even my thoughts. " I love that brief little smirk from Alicent. xD You can tell she's probably thinking, "Yeah? Join the club, son."
Well, Aegon is not required to do anything if he's got good and experienced people in key positions doing what they do best. Alicent does not mean that the Greens shouldn't do anything, just that Aegon should know what his limitations are and in her opinion he's not good at affairs of state at all.
@Regenmacher175 True. But it's like a blade through the heart for Aegon because he feels once again his family treats him like a piece of chess instead of an actual human being.
@@Regenmacher175 except that Alicent literally oposes any action or initiative the greens want to take or any initiative anyone proposes on the council. She just wants them sit in King's Landing, play nice with Rhaenyra even though they are at war and do nothing. And she tells Aegon that he should listen to her and she claims to be wise and smart when she is the idiot who had the enemy monarch in her hands and let her escapes. 🤡 And when Aegon asks for her advice she offers nothing of substance and just insults him. Alicent has not done or proposed anything usefull this season while Aegon at least had some decent ideas: secure Riverrun and Harrenhall to prevent Rhaenyra from rallying the Riverlands and being kind and generous to the smallfolk while Alicent spent the whole season undermining the greens and complaining about how Aegon didn't become her puppet. And then in the final episode she actually goes out of her way to help Rhaenyra kill her sons.
@@TutosViolet not it isn't. She is an idiot who claims to be wise yet hasn't done or proposed anything usefull all season. In fact she undermines the greens and helps Rhaenyra.
That's the moment that drove him to fight on dragon back. He knows he's technically an illegitimate ruler, so either he keeps the throne by charismatic leadership or else becomes a puppet of the truly powerful. We know Aegon is not stupid. He's just drunk most of the time.
If Aemond wasn't a traitor powerhungry Cain, Sunfyre and Aegon would be okay. Ironic how Aegon was willing to let Rhaenyra rule as Aemond is committing kinslaying to get the throne
I don't know why they didn't just made Aemond King instead... He was ready to rule, he had knowledge and the cunningness of what a King needs in politics.
Probably thought that Aegon was easier to manipulate, and saw Aemond as the runt as a child. When they finally realised just the truth about Aemond, it was probably too late to change course. I guess? 🤷🏾♂️ Sunk ship fallacy is a real thing.
@@samueljennings4809there's also this. They wanted someone they could easily lead around to do whatever they wanted. Aemond is anything but that, for good or ill.
My guess? They wanted a puppet. An ignorant, incompetent and inept person who would always rely on the Small Council. And they believed Aegon was going to be just that, whereas Aemond could've contested their powers and decisions due to being more cunning, knowledgable and self-assured. Only NOW do they realize how much of a bad idea that was! It's better to have a cunning but competent king, than to have rebellious, impulsive and ignorant fool for a king, which is what Aegon _actually_ ended up being instead of their puppet.
The story is not about Greens vs Blacks. It's about how all these noble assholes have thousands of poor people die because they are fighting over who gets to sit on an ugly chair. This will come back to bite them in the a** later.
I don't understand this mindset. In fiction, hell even in reality, 2 sides aren't always equal. In LotR, were Gandalf, Aragorn etc NOT the heroes? Was Sauron not the villain? It's fine to have morally grey and HotD has much grey in it. But that doesn't mean 2 sides must be 50-50 in fiction. What matters is "was it compelling" as a story.
@zxylo786 Alicent is less complex in the book: she's kinda a cliché evil stepmother. Show Alicent was given way more depth from her friendship with Rhaenyra. Characters like Larys and Aemond are still kin slayers in the book. Cole isn't good in the book, and he still comes across as a salty ex who hates Rhaenyra cuz she wouldn't marry him. Perhaps Aegon wasn't a rapist in the book, idk. I can't speak about that. What exactly about the greens is better in the books? If you're referring to Aemond and Aegon relationship as brothers, I think the show Aemond hating his brother makes sense. Aegon is a horrible bully. I don't blame Aemond for thinking himself a better leader than his older brother.
@l.n.3372 I think the last episode of the season really destroyed the team Green. Like everyone has its own ambitious and goals but in the end all of them are in line to defend their side.
I was thinking the same thing. It's a great advice to a young man who had no experience whatsoever. But it's heartbreaking because Aegon heard this from his mother.
@@algebra22 As an addition, she is acting like this and then doesn't even have any council for him. She tells him to take her council and then she has nothing to say. Because she also doesn't know what to do at that point either.
@TallGrass44 and still she calls Otto the most cunning state man that ever lived. Which means even without viserys's words, Alicent would've agreed to make her son king. Alicent relationship with Aegon was always a bit cold as we saw in season 1.
Its not ageons fault that she misinterpreted viserys last words. Now that she feels like a guilty fool, she is reflecting back to ageon her faults and no longer seeing him as a valuable asset in her eyes. When she understood that viserys wasn't talking about ageon, she just reverted back to the emotionally neglectful mother that she is.
Nono Alicent hates Aegon remember the episode 7 about him as a King blablabla she even call him IDIOT because Aegon ask "do you love me?" Alicent is kinda hipocrit the same way Cole, she says to LOVE his family and the "Queen" Aegon and Aemond are a Mess In fact i like the BASTARDS being actual leaders and family because Rhaenyra is not THAT CRAZY, her Madness comes from losing her kids Alicent goes the same way and worst
Lol she just found out that her imbecile of a son was not who Viserys wanted to rule so all of the people who she knows will die in the conflict between the Greens and the Blacks will have lost their lives just to put her rapist asshole of a son on the throne who is bad at ruling because he has no interest in it. Maybe pay attention to the show.
I really do think it's crazy how deeply Aegon's own family has dehumanized him. It's not even loneliness, just straight up not recognizing that he's a person. When they look at Aegon, they don't see Aegon. Just a chess piece. It's a situation entirely devoid of love.
And to an extent, they both know how badly Aegon wanted to be validated by the parental figures in his life. He desperately wants to think Viserys chose him, and that's why both Otto and Alicent use it against him.
This is how I feel too. They do everything to make him less human. His own family isn’t even blind to his plight. They know he wants love and they loathed him for it. They weaponize it against him. They don’t want him as a human, only an object for power. He’s someone already in the mud, reaching out a hand for help, and they are kicking him down.
I just want him to escape to Essos with Jaehaera and Sunfyre. This family is too toxic.
@@shikenkanadeTrue, but Aegon is also toxic too. Although he did not get much love from both his parents growing up(And I believe he would’ve been a better person if he had), he’s also a bad brother to his siblings, particularly Aemond. If he was nicer to him and Heleana, he would’ve gotten a little bit of a support system from his siblings.
Recognize and validate a rapist and scumbag like Aegon? Lol
True. And out of all of Alicent’s children, Aegon was the most emotionally vulnerable. He actively sought out her love, while Aemond no longer tolerates her, and Helaena feels barely a thing. When he was burned by Vhagar, he called out “mommy.” When escorted to the Dragonpit, he asked her if she loved him, and in this scene he asks for her support and in turn he’s being judged for his incompetence. It’s so interesting to think about.
@@ojroche5217 He's like the scapegoat of his family. If you read some of the published parts of the script, you can see that Alicent thinks he's weak for crying or being emotional, is irritated or disgusted by it. She doesn't seem to like him much and thus instead of seeing the good in these qualities and trying to help him regulate his emotions, and try to help him develop his empathy, she almost punishes him for it.
Alicent calling Aegon useless and pretending to be wise and smart is rich coming for her when she literally had an easy chance to capture the enemy queen and then just allowed her to leave the sept.
Oh boo hoo Alicent is so stupid no such thing as friendship and honor
Exactly! We can see where Aegon gets his stupidity from Alicent advising him to rely on her and Otto to run the show is like Hitler calling Putin a maniac 🤣🤣
Don't talk about that shitty scene, it was just a hallucination, OK ?
As awful as Aegon is, I can't help but feel sorry for him in this scene. To hear you are nothing more than a pawn to your own mother and grandfather must feel soul crushing. Even worse when you are told to do nothing while other people do your job for you, even though you legit want to help. If the Greens actually took the time to train Aegon, he wouldn't be what he is now.
He doesnt want tp learn growing up,Aemond learned because he wants to
@aslfire3710 The Greens should've gone with Aemond from the start, then. Have Aegon renounce his claim and work to put Aemond on the throne.
*Unfortunately,* if we're being 100% honest and real, *they never wanted a "king".*
*They wanted an ignorant pawn who was incapable of doing anything and would be completely reliant on them to rule.*
Except, contrary to their expectations, Aegon did not turn out like that. Now that he's King, he wanted to at least be proactive on his job, but has no experience on the job. *And they dislike it. His decisions and actions puts the Greens in worse and worse situations.*
The Small Council only wants Aemond NOW because they're getting desperate to win this war and keep their own power, so f*ck it, let's put the guy who's got some knowledge and more or less align with our strategies! Manipulating the King be damned right now!
@@MrDibarai'd said Aemond was the idiot who put Greens on awful situations: killing Luke, starting an horrible war, Jaehaerys was killed by his kinslaying, let his army got burned just to being spiteful and almost eliminated the only other dragonrider of his team.
Greens gonna miss Aegon so much now that Aemond is regent and is gonna fumbling their team further
I found it deeply ironic how Alicent and Otto bemoan the downgrade from Viserys to Aegon but then ignore that Aegon actually had some of Viserys' positive qualities (geniality, desire to help the commonfolk, etc). And we see on multiple occasions he is pretty easily swayed.
Instead, they fail him again by demeaning him instead of guiding him.
@@MrDibara Going with Aemond from the beginning doesn't make any sense. The whole reason Alicent started this war was because she thought Viserys wanted Aegon on the throne. Aemond has no claim unless Aegon is dead. Aegon renouncing his claim weakens the Greens and does nothing but make Rhaenyra's claim stronger.
And yes, Aemond himself is largely responsible for how badly this has escalated.
This is the shittiest conversation ever. It's tough being team Green.
"You should seek our council."
So he does: "What would you have me do?"
Her: "Nothing."
Aegon should have been like: "Oh, go have some more of your abortion tea."
Does Aegon know about Alicent's affair with Criston?
@@angelinenabua6336 Alicent is married?
@@highwind8124 What are you talking about, I'm asking if Aegon knows about Alicent's affair with Criston so that him saying "have more abortion tea" makes more sense if you get what I mean
@@angelinenabua6336 "What are you talking about"
Alicent. Is she married?
@@highwind8124 I don't get you, if you're asking if Alicent is married then yes she was before with Viserys but after he died she became a widow...
If you want Aegon to say Alicent should've drank more of her abortion tea then that would mean Aegon knew about her affair with Criston cole
And since I don't watch the show only the clips of it I asked if Aegon knew Alicent is having affair with Criston so it'd make sense
The hurt on Aegon's face 😢
0:34 - 0:49 "They don't care what I think. [...] They pursue their campaign without seeking my aid or even my thoughts. "
I love that brief little smirk from Alicent. xD You can tell she's probably thinking, "Yeah? Join the club, son."
Why did she assume Aegon burned the books, she thought the worst of him.
I think Alicent never thought much of her son but she has been disgusted with Aegon since he raped Dyana.
@@MrAlexkyra and she covered it up and blamed Dyana
He never gave her reason to believe any better of him. She was a terrible mother and Aegon and Aemond are products of that.
DO NOTHING? THATS YOUR WISE ADVICE? DO NOTHING UNTIL OUR ENEMIES ARE ON OUR SHORES?!
“RUN BACK TO OLDTOWN! I SHALL HAVE YOUR HEAD ON A SPIKE!”
Writers when trying to portray the green characters: let's just write it like a GOT.
About the black characters you know how it goes
Well, Aegon is not required to do anything if he's got good and experienced people in key positions doing what they do best. Alicent does not mean that the Greens shouldn't do anything, just that Aegon should know what his limitations are and in her opinion he's not good at affairs of state at all.
@Regenmacher175 True. But it's like a blade through the heart for Aegon because he feels once again his family treats him like a piece of chess instead of an actual human being.
@@Regenmacher175 except that Alicent literally oposes any action or initiative the greens want to take or any initiative anyone proposes on the council. She just wants them sit in King's Landing, play nice with Rhaenyra even though they are at war and do nothing. And she tells Aegon that he should listen to her and she claims to be wise and smart when she is the idiot who had the enemy monarch in her hands and let her escapes. 🤡 And when Aegon asks for her advice she offers nothing of substance and just insults him.
Alicent has not done or proposed anything usefull this season while Aegon at least had some decent ideas: secure Riverrun and Harrenhall to prevent Rhaenyra from rallying the Riverlands and being kind and generous to the smallfolk while Alicent spent the whole season undermining the greens and complaining about how Aegon didn't become her puppet. And then in the final episode she actually goes out of her way to help Rhaenyra kill her sons.
Alicent….they will never make me like you.
Everything she said here is true.
@@TutosViolet and?
@@RockyAexiiyIm the #1 Alicent hater now
@@WhiteBoyTariqthat would happen to be me actually
@@TutosViolet not it isn't. She is an idiot who claims to be wise yet hasn't done or proposed anything usefull all season. In fact she undermines the greens and helps Rhaenyra.
That's the moment that drove him to fight on dragon back. He knows he's technically an illegitimate ruler, so either he keeps the throne by charismatic leadership or else becomes a puppet of the truly powerful. We know Aegon is not stupid. He's just drunk most of the time.
Dang Alicent is giving late term Cersei and Tommen vibes. Just exhaustion and contempt
I wish they had kept book Alicent. She was fierce and cunning. Show Alicent is a confused puppy.
“Do nothing.”
*Proceeds to get himself crippled for life*
If he just listened Sunfyre would still be one of the most glorious dragons in Westeros and Aegon wouldn’t be burned and crippled
He’s a king in an absolute monarchy he had no reason to listen to literally anyone. Thats a given in a show about a monarchy are all of you dumb
If Alicent wasn't a terrible mother Aegon would be doing Aegon things and there never would've been a war.
@@thegreatid3595And if Otto wasn't a terrible father, there would have been no war.
If Aemond wasn't a traitor powerhungry Cain, Sunfyre and Aegon would be okay. Ironic how Aegon was willing to let Rhaenyra rule as Aemond is committing kinslaying to get the throne
@@ilbb7055 Have you seen the series? Aegon has been bullying his younger brother since childhood
another reason i hate alicent
If only they taught Aegon the responsibilities of the position he was forced into, just maybe, he would've turned out a bit better
Its correct Aegon shouldnt have done anything... YET. Alicent should have added "but listen and learn."
I don't know why they didn't just made Aemond King instead... He was ready to rule, he had knowledge and the cunningness of what a King needs in politics.
Probably thought that Aegon was easier to manipulate, and saw Aemond as the runt as a child. When they finally realised just the truth about Aemond, it was probably too late to change course. I guess? 🤷🏾♂️ Sunk ship fallacy is a real thing.
They did not want a cunning ruler, they wanted an idiot puppet. Instead they got an idiot ruler, the worst comination they could have gotten.
@@samueljennings4809there's also this. They wanted someone they could easily lead around to do whatever they wanted. Aemond is anything but that, for good or ill.
My guess? They wanted a puppet.
An ignorant, incompetent and inept person who would always rely on the Small Council.
And they believed Aegon was going to be just that, whereas Aemond could've contested their powers and decisions due to being more cunning, knowledgable and self-assured.
Only NOW do they realize how much of a bad idea that was!
It's better to have a cunning but competent king, than to have rebellious, impulsive and ignorant fool for a king, which is what Aegon _actually_ ended up being instead of their puppet.
Aemond cunning? What? He's the biggest idiot on the Dance
The Bidens 😂😂
Alicent might actually be the worst person in team green.
I really wish for more reasons to have fans supporting the Greens and make the fan base somewhat 50/50 when supporting either side.
The story is not about Greens vs Blacks. It's about how all these noble assholes have thousands of poor people die because they are fighting over who gets to sit on an ugly chair. This will come back to bite them in the a** later.
I don't understand this mindset. In fiction, hell even in reality, 2 sides aren't always equal. In LotR, were Gandalf, Aragorn etc NOT the heroes? Was Sauron not the villain?
It's fine to have morally grey and HotD has much grey in it. But that doesn't mean 2 sides must be 50-50 in fiction. What matters is "was it compelling" as a story.
Greens on the book are 100% better.
@zxylo786 Alicent is less complex in the book: she's kinda a cliché evil stepmother. Show Alicent was given way more depth from her friendship with Rhaenyra.
Characters like Larys and Aemond are still kin slayers in the book. Cole isn't good in the book, and he still comes across as a salty ex who hates Rhaenyra cuz she wouldn't marry him.
Perhaps Aegon wasn't a rapist in the book, idk. I can't speak about that.
What exactly about the greens is better in the books? If you're referring to Aemond and Aegon relationship as brothers, I think the show Aemond hating his brother makes sense. Aegon is a horrible bully. I don't blame Aemond for thinking himself a better leader than his older brother.
@l.n.3372 I think the last episode of the season really destroyed the team Green. Like everyone has its own ambitious and goals but in the end all of them are in line to defend their side.
Allicent has so many points here. A good King also listens to his council and not just make reckless decisions.
I was thinking the same thing. It's a great advice to a young man who had no experience whatsoever. But it's heartbreaking because Aegon heard this from his mother.
I think she could have been much nicer about it. There is a difference between giving advice and whatever she did in this scene.
@@danika9411 she WAS being nice. Lol actually in the most polite way
@@algebra22 She is condescending, and arrogant here. Cold, angry. There is no warmths whatsoever. This is not how you act if you try to be nice.
@@algebra22 As an addition, she is acting like this and then doesn't even have any council for him. She tells him to take her council and then she has nothing to say. Because she also doesn't know what to do at that point either.
Aaand 4 weeks later, it's clear Alicent HATES Aegon's guts😅
@Kon3ko not just Aegon. Basically her entire family except helaena
alicent is over it 😂
Oh. This is after Alicent realized she was wrong about whicb Aegon.
@TallGrass44 and still she calls Otto the most cunning state man that ever lived. Which means even without viserys's words, Alicent would've agreed to make her son king. Alicent relationship with Aegon was always a bit cold as we saw in season 1.
And she let's it out at her son. 😕
So Alicent went from standing in front of a dragon defending her son to now this bs and treating him like crap.
The writing of this show is so stupif
peaople are complicated, she can be loving mother and have the mental brakedown latter one
Annddd that’s DRAMA! What the show is classified under. Also yes people are complex
Its not ageons fault that she misinterpreted viserys last words. Now that she feels like a guilty fool, she is reflecting back to ageon her faults and no longer seeing him as a valuable asset in her eyes. When she understood that viserys wasn't talking about ageon, she just reverted back to the emotionally neglectful mother that she is.
Nono Alicent hates Aegon remember the episode 7 about him as a King blablabla she even call him IDIOT because Aegon ask "do you love me?"
Alicent is kinda hipocrit the same way Cole, she says to LOVE his family and the "Queen" Aegon and Aemond are a Mess
In fact i like the BASTARDS being actual leaders and family because Rhaenyra is not THAT CRAZY, her Madness comes from losing her kids
Alicent goes the same way and worst
Lol she just found out that her imbecile of a son was not who Viserys wanted to rule so all of the people who she knows will die in the conflict between the Greens and the Blacks will have lost their lives just to put her rapist asshole of a son on the throne who is bad at ruling because he has no interest in it. Maybe pay attention to the show.
Lmao, Aegon's personal guars are a joke
Even Criston Cole realized that lol worst team of kings guard of all time
I feel like Tywin would have loved to have Alicent as a daughter, she has the intelligence that Cersei lacks.