These Worship Songs Need to be Abolished
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
- In this episode Trent examines how heretical church music harms the faithful.
Mary, DID You Know?
• Mary, DID You Know?
Bishop Shawn McKnight's Decree: diojeffcity.or...
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Timestamps:
00:00 These Worship Songs Need to be Abolished
01:15 “All are Welcome”
07:15 “Table of Plenty”
08:50 “Mary, Did you know?”
12:10 The problems with these hymns
The existence of the Susan from the parish council is the truest Catholic stereotype ever.
I interned at a parish with three Susans on staff (referred to as the coven), two were vanquished and one was converted. So it goes.
@@warrenphilips8441 I’m maybe just really lucky in the diocese I grew up in and still live in - but I have no idea what a ‘Susan from the parish council’ is
What sorts of things do they push for?
@irishandscottish1829 altar girls, female lectors, communion in the hand, no kneeling to receive
Most extremist Catholics, like Trent and his fans, are probably even more upset that "Susan" doesn't have to cover her head in church, like when they were young. LOL
we have a version of Susan also...
there was a complaint that we were singing Gregorian Chant too often...
I would love to hear Gregorian chant being performed at my church during Mass. That would be incredible!
I would have posted this comment 5 yrs ago. It took a solid priest who came in and cleaned up a little of the mess with bad church music.
Vatican II calls for Gregorian chant to have pride of place in the liturgy. That happens in about one parish in a thousand.
@@Novice1965 It's because the Gregorian Chant is from the Holy Temple in Jerusalem ( as told to Pope Gregory by an angel ). The new mass was thrown together ( the Second Eucharistic prayer was composed on a napkin at a table in a trattoria in Trastevere ( an infamous quarter of Rome ). They don't go together.
FSSP church’s are in communion with Rome. They do the Roman traditional mass which has Gregorian singing as well as Latin mass.
So look to see if they have a church near you that holds this form of the mass which has
@@martmeliJMJT the first couple times I read your comment, I kept interpreting the solid priest using bad church music to clean-up the mess you're referring to.
Also, why 5 years ago... is that when you could no longer stand the music?
Hillsong and Bethel music needs to be removed from singing at Mass and Catholic events. Some of their songs are considered problematic and heretical even by Evangelical circles. How did they ever make it into Catholicism ?!?!?!?
Maybe because of Charismatic groups for example in the Philippines, charismatic groups introduced Protestant Worship songs in the Catholic Church.
Modernism
Yes, bad by theologically rich Protestants as well. Consider City Alight, Keith Getty, Matt Boswell for excellent modern hymns which are singable and edifying
The spirit of the Novus Ordo is Protestantism
Yeah the Church should check the lyrics before plugging them in the song list. For me, I listen to worship songs with lyrics from psalms only.
Regarding On Eagle’s Wings, my mom has told me that if that song is played at her funeral she will haunt me forever, lol
@@jacklauder8226 amen 😂
Omg I love that song 😂
My dad has said this word for word 😂
😂
That song was what made me decide to go to the afternoon mass at 5PM, and later just frequent Latin Mass.
As a music director, I am thankful to you, Trent, for dedicating some time to this important topic. It can be difficult to have conversations with parishioners who have emotional ties to these hymns and wonder why we do not sing them anymore, so thank you for adding your (and the Church's) thoughtful perspective to the conversation. What the people of God have on their lips and sing every week is so important. Our hymnody ought to be good and beautiful but, as importantly, it ought to be true.
Beautifully and accurately stated. Thank you.
It’s difficult to have conversations with parishioners about theological problematic hymns because we care about their feelings more than we care about the truth. These parishioners are children in adults bodies. They need to grow up.
@@mercedesaschenbrenner9352 exactly. “Emotional ties to the music”…then they should simply play their music at home. Church is for worship. Not pop music disguised as “praise music.”
Well said. There is a big difference between a song making us emotional over our inner turmoil/feelings…vs a hymnal that lifts our hearts in worship of God. The lyrics we sing become our prayer. And those prayers should have perfect Union with Catholic teaching.
Also, you might be interested in Hillsong documentaries. It exposes how they use unpaid musicians …who barely sleep…and who pump out the songs. They take the modern popular music, change a few chords and add very ambiguous (and Protestant) lyrics. Then they sell the rights of those songs to churches worldwide. Hillsong is registered as a business in order to protect their finances legally. It’s an absolute racket. Peace
@@lilyd5596Our “regular” church music is so bad, I go to the teen mass with pop music to detox my ears. At least it’s sincere and energetic, unlike “all our welcome,” “Gather us in,” and others in the same category.
The age of "Susan from the parish council" is quickly coming to an end. The time of Orthodox Catholic millenials and gen-Zers is about to explode. Keep trusting and praying.
Susan is the Ecclesiastical Karen
I pray that having to endure bad hymns at Mass will shorten my time in Purgatory! There are so many!
😂😂😂
Same! I've even considered earplugs during these cheesy hymns.
As a person who spent 12 years training in singing, I simply can't even open my mouth to make a sound at Sunday mass with these dreadful "songs". Where is the scripture in them? Why so many unnecessary key changes? Why so many written in dull minor keys? As I sit or stand there listening to this garbage, lamenting the fact that the beautiful hymns of the ages have been shoved into the bottom draw, I offer up my suffering as a penance and await the day when hopefully I am in heaven listening to the music of the angels. It certainly won't sound like any of this rubbish.
Great take! 😁
@@winstoncottage344: Well said!👍
It seems to me that Trent is becoming more bold with each year passing by. I love it. You need to speak the truth. God bless you!
Still not as bold as Taylor Marshall 😂 (btw I like both Catholics)
@@Ryan78900Unfortunately Taylor is a sedevacantist.
@ That’s not actually true. He says Francis is Pope
@@Ryan78900Marshall does say that Francis is the Pope. But does he act like Francis is the Pope?
@@jeremias-serus He can criticize all he wants, that does not make him a Sedevcantist
My son was ordained a few weeks ago. The liturgy was magnificent with traditional entrance antiphon, chant, traditional Catholic hymns and organ (not a guitar in sight). The vestments were gold trimmed, there was incense everywhere and young men serving at the altar. One couple I invited who were twice a year/fallen away Catholics were visibly in tears toward the end. Beauty evangelizes.
Wonderful !
Congratulations.
So it had nothing to do with Jesus then.
'......young men serving at the altar.' No way that could end badly, right? How many billions in compensation do you lot have to pay out before you learn?
@@ji8044 obviously not your type of liturgy. If I were to guess, I would say, bongo drums, and dancing nuns with pots of incense, lots of girl “ altar boys,” a hundred elderly women with blue hair as “ bread” and “wine” ministers, and endless versus Kumbaya would be more to your liking.
This video showcases the struggle I've been dealing with for years. Piano and organ are the only marketable skills I have, so teaching piano lessons and playing music for Mass are really the only ways I can make a living.
I've dealt with COUNTLESS bad hymns, Susans not understanding why music has to be reverent or theologically sound, and compromises that I never should've taken
I even had to dramatically quit a job with no notice because they ordered me to play a jazz funk song at Mass (specifically the "hymn" Go Out, Go Out). I proposed compromise after compromise, but they were completely set on having that song at their school Mass, with kids clapping along and singing acapella verses
Also, one thing that was not covered in the video that frustrates me on a daily basis is the systematic neutering of liturgical music. In most modern hymnals, the words to a great deal of the hymns have been updated to remove all cases of God being referred to with male pronouns. They'll even intentionally mistranslate psalms to do it, and receive no punishment from ecclesiastical authorities. Just imagine how bad it would be for trad parishes if they updated hymns and intentionally mistranslates scripture in order to promote an agenda
I feel your pain. My parish has had this dreadful nonsense for so long now that the people attending Mass have completely lost the knowledge of the proper hymns. Even the Mass settings are truly awful. The Gloria is a beautiful prayer, not a pop song with verses and a chorus. I play for a weekday Mass regularly and have made it my mission to reintroduce the hymns of old. It is a slow process, but bit by bit I am working towards re-educating the mass goers and winning them over.
Firstly, I really appreciated your Sedevecantism documentary on your channel. Very edifying and informative, and a much needed source of trustworthy info on a growing problem in the Church. Thanks for making that and I have great respect for you.
Secondly, I remember hearing "go out, go out" for the first time just a few months ago, at my home parish. I also remember hearing "sing of the lord's goodness", which is just a cover of the jazz classic "Take Five". I was pretty taken back. My home parish at the time was a great community of young college aged adults, with great pastors who were outspoken about the truth and constantly hosting events/talks to enrich the faith and sacramental life. However, the liturgy and especially the music often left a LOT to be desired. In a very educated, artsy college town, it was disappointing that the importance of reverent and solemn music was so overlooked.
I have since moved towns to a new parish, which almost always has an organist. It's crazy how big of a difference it can make. It is my hope that I can bring others to recognize the importance of solid liturgical music, with an ORGAN, (maybe piano) or better yet just with voice. One of the most beautiful masses I've ever been to was a tiny, grassroots Ordinariate parish with just a small acapella chant choir. It doesn't take talent, just attention and dedication to have solid liturgical music. Hopefully within the next generation or two we see a decline in the pop-ish, upbeat, "all-about-me" hymns which have aged so poorly.
Susan from the parish council got me rolling 😂... It's always the Susans 😂
No wonder Father David Michael Moses is always hiding from her in his TH-cam shorts. Even our priests don’t want to deal with her.
Not karens?.....ugh!😔😆🤣
This is what I’m talking about Trent.
You’re encouraging this abusive and disparaging behavior.
I was thinking he should have said Margret
@@lukebrown5395 He’s more concerned with talking about himself then worrying about others it seems to me
I agree 100%. Our new pastor of 2 years ago has made many changes including bringing back gregorian chant. More people are coming to Mass than ever before.
It’s great to see! I’ve seen that at my parish too!
I would love Gregorian chant at my parish but no men volunteer to do stuff.
However I keep praying that will change. There is already some fruits showing with a demand for children to be given stations of the cross and children focused adoration time.
Slowly slowly I believe Gods graces will pull the more lukewarm to true Adoration and devotion to Christ where we will finally end up with Gregorian chanting
Thank you for this, Trent. Out sending hymn yesterday was "Go Make a Difference" and while I didn't see any obvious theological problems, it still felt like we were singing to each other and not toward God. Made me uncomfortable.
We did that yesterday as well. I can't stand it
We sang this as the recessional "hymn" at our eighth grade graduation Mass. I didn't like it then, and I said so. One of the boys in my class was like, "I don't want to fall asleep at my eighth grade graduation." (Like it was his wedding or something. 😂 ) Suggesting that other song options would put people to sleep. Which highlights the trend to keep the congregation engaged and interested, rather than prioritizing theological soundness...
That song is also so clunky to sing, especially the verses... 😫
I always assumed that music hymnals in the pews were approved by the Bishops. 😢
Our outgoing song was a very forgettable piece assisted by an acoustic guitar, that just summarized the gospel reading and said nothing else. I don’t think a guitar should have any place in the Mass
Agreed. I dislike that “hymn” immensely.
One of my favorite songs of all time is "Anima Christi"
Based.
It's Adoro Devote for me
Anima Christi is a prayer penned by a saint that's being given music. Like st. Francis' "make me a channel of gour peace"
Beautiful song.
Love it
I recently heard the story of All Are Welcome, from someone who knows Marty Haugen. It was not written as a hymn. It was written for a house warming. It has no place in Church.
I can't imagine what po$$ible rea$on there could be for the licen$ing and u$age of thi$ $ong in all the mi$$alettes and hymnal$...
@@aaroncatron2306why did you replace all the s with the $ sign?
Makes sense.
@@John-i7o he was hinting at the reason being money.
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai ohhhhh, thanks for telling me 👍🏼
“As a Fire” can be fixed with literally two words:
From: “Not to preach our creeds and customs but to build a bridge of care.”
To: “FOR to preach our creeds and customs AND to build a bridge of care.”
As a fire can be fixed by never singing it again.
I’m a Syro-Malabar Catholic, an Eastern Catholic rite that originated in India. We’re having a movement amongst the youth in our churches to return to our old, traditional Syriac hymns originating from the first Catholic communities in India. It’s beautiful! And the other Indian Catholic rite, Syro-Malankara, has already done an amazing job of both using very orthodox Syrian hymns and also singing those same hymns but in English and other Indian languages but with the same ancient tunes and meanings.
Good! This is good to hear!
I'm reminded of a South Park episode where Cartman starts a Christian rock band, and the songs are just regular pop songs with the name Jesus replacing the object of affection in said songs. The result is very offensive but serves to illustrate an important point.
King of the Hill - "you're not making Christianity better, you're making rock and roll worse"
I think Eastern Catholic liturgies are thriving because of stuff like this, if I wanted basic worship songs, I'd go back to being a Baptist
Would places like Japan be considered Eastern Catholic liturgy? What is the difference between Eastern and Western. New to Catholicism.
@@SilverioFamilyforChrist Eastern Catholic is another name for Byzantine Catholic, which are churches in the old Byzantine Empire and a lot of Eastern Europe. Most Eastern churches use the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, like a lot of Eastern Orthodox churches.
@@SilverioFamilyforChristEastern Rite Catholicism came back into communion with Rome from the various eastern apostolic churches.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches?wprov=sfla1
@SilverioFamilyforChrist Eastern, in the context of Christianity, takes the ancient Mediterranean basin as its reference point. Thus, the Greek Catholic and Orthodox Churches are Eastern, as are the Ukrainian, Russian. Ruthenian, Assyrian, Chaldean, Maronite, Armenian, etc., are Eastern. There are 24 Catholic Churches in communion with the Pope, and for each there tends to be an Orthodox counterpart.
There are six major rites - liturgies - in use among the Catholic Churches, the Latin, Chaldean, Alexandrian, Byzantine, Antiochan, and Armenian. In Japan, if I recall correctly, they are part of the Latin Church (a.k.a., the Roman Catholic Church) and use the Latin Rite (not to be confused with Mass in Latin).
It's not just Byzantine. Maronites are Eastern Catholic as well as some Syriacs. Byzantine is probably the largest in the West though.
Trent! Thank you so much for addressing the theological standards behind liturgical music. So many Catholics seem to treat music at the mass as window dressing, or a tool for keeping people entertained during the liturgy. I'd love to see more content of you delving into what the Church actually teaches about what its intentions for sacred music are in the liturgy. There's plenty of accomplished liturgical musicians who would be great guests to help expound on the topic.
I left my church choir for this reason. After 24 yrs I realized I was signing for my own edification wanting my voice to be heard. Our focus wasn’t attending Mass and receiving the Eucharist but to perform. We barely received the Host before we were belting out another song.
The songs we sung were mentioned in this video. Mostly written in the 20th century. Some written by Protestant composers.
Glad I realized the error of my ways and became part of the congregation which allows me to fully focus on the Mass 🙏
And that's how these people win - they simply bash everyone into submission. This needs to be addressed at a much higher level than just leaving it up to some well meaning, but completely incompetent music "groups" at the parish level. I like what the Bishop did in this video - it's just a pity he backed down.
Does being written by a protestant make a song automatically bad? As long as the song itself doesn't contain heresy and there is genuine praise of God, I find nothing wrong with it.
The Soy "All Are Welcome" vs The Chad "Oh God Beyond All Praising"
This needs to be shared to every bishop and priest.
Nah it's the music directors that really need it/ would impact... unfortunately I don't think many clergy wouldn't think it's a priority
Sounds like the USCCB needs to have a sit-down with OCP, the biggest perpetrator of this kind of junk church music.
The song "Gather Us In" caused me to leave the Church when I was 12. I couldn't deal with a church that lame.
By the grace of God I returned
This is the only one I disagree with. Don't see a problem with it. It gives the glory to God and acknowledges that we need Him.
@Clyde-S-Wilcox I do have some concerns with some vague verses. For example "the wine" is mentioned very casually, never saying or implying that is the Blood of our Lord. Verses like, "Give us to drink the wine of compassion" are written as a metaphor, while The Blood is not a metaphor, we are not drinking "compassion". I am no musician, but something like, "Give Us today Your Body and Blood" will fit the worship song perfectly and make it more aligned with the Catholic faith.
Drinking "the wine of compassion" is not what we are doing. By eating His Body and drinking His Blood, we abide in Him, and He is in us; therefore, we become more compassionate.
All I'm saying is that is unnecessarily vague and that it lends itself to misinterpretation when it does not have to be.
When I discovered Gregorian Chant, my faith deepened so much.
I hope the Grace of God leads you to Holy Orthodoxy ☦☦☦
@@Clyde-S-WilcoxCorny and insipid. Music and words. Not theologically unsound, but simply grade C-Minus music. God deserves better, as do congregations.
I am from the diocese of Jefferson City, where Bishop McKnight made the announcement. Yes, he made the announcement and withdrew it. But he explained that he had not gone through the process of synodality in making the announcement. Two weeks ago everyone in the diocese was asked to fill out a music survey which was pretty thorough, and starting next weekend there are listening sessions where we will meet and discuss the music/lyric issues. All of us who are involved in music ministry have been encouraged to go to one of these. It's not that he's being democratic, but he wants people to feel heard and understand what's going on. People tend to accept decisions if they feel like they have been heard or been a part of the process, even if they don't agree with the decision. I will share this video with a few folks that I know who will be participating in the listening sessions.
You are correct. But then there's also the aspect of humility in hearing the truth of the bishop's decree and assenting to it in obedience. Sometimes, and I stress the word "sometimes," the desire to be heard can serve as an idol.
There is also the issue that a lot of people weren't too happy with fundraising changes or the attempted enforcement of Veritas or whatever it was called on everyone who volunteers for any event on parish grounds.
Sounds like a wise move on Bishop McKnight's part.
The True Catholic Church is not a democracy, just as Jesus-God was not running a democracy with his 12 Apostles. If he did, the Church would have died in a year just like other contemporary Messiah cults.
On top of that, back in Greece, at the time democracy was created, Socrates expressed hatred for it as "mob rule," where the lowest and the most aggressive rule. That's not a Church but a dark sin cult.
He should add 'Sanctuary' by Thompson and Scruggs to the list.
was waiting for Mary Did You Know and trent did not disappoint!
Always remember that you can sing from the book of the Psalms. They've been set to verse and music for worship and you'll never have to question their theology. It's a shame most churches don't use them.
Some Presbyterians sing only the Psalms and no modern humns
I wrote a song based on Psalm 77. It’s basically word for word the Psalm. I guess one could say it’s a modern lament. I think the last verse is the only part that isn’t directly from the Psalm, but it is theologically sound. I love songs that are scripture put to music, and I try to incorporate that in my writings
Unless you're singing the imprecatory Psalms curse God's enemies and wish their infants dashed literally.
That's why Pope Paul VI published the Gradual Romanum in 1974, with all the official chants and antiphons for the mass. But most church musicians today have probably never even opened a copy of it.
@@cherubintambwe6177 priests and bishops in the NO don't tend to like musicians who have. Try to introduce chant and Latin at a NO parish and see how quickly they run you out. Ask me how I know.
In addition, ban the song "Last Christmas" from every radio station's Christmas playlist. It's a break-up song with the only connection to Christmas is the time it occurred.
Last Christmas is not played in a liturgical mass.
Yes, but ban it anyway.
But ... that’s when I gave you my heart ...
It's cultural. It's not a used a worship song. It's the same level as all i want for christmas is you, songs about santa and his sleigh, etc. It's not wrong unless you hear it in a church...
Hahaha
Yes, yes, YES. I direct music at a Catholic parish and direct a Catholic university Schola. We try so hard to implement good, healthy music, as well as the antiphons. Lex orandi, lex credendi!!
We gotta get Santa Clause back to fix these hymns
"Bro, that's Heresy"
Hello fellow Redeemed Zoomer viewer!
@@TheRatOnFire_ Is he Catholic yet?
Nope@@BensWorkshop
@@commonuncommon2486mission failed, we'll get him next time
you have 1 dislike: i bet it's Susan from the parish council
😂😂😂 class comment. 😅
As a recent convert, Trent doesn't know much about the history of Catholicism in the US. The women did all the dirty work for 200 years. The nuns taught the schools essentially for free. The parish women cleaned and decorated the churches, played the organ, ran the bake sales and spaghetti dinners, donated money, all so the priests could come in at the last minute like the lord of the manor and take the bows.
@@ji8044 Susan?
Who else can administer the Sacraments? Being a Priest is a lot of work, Susan. Nuns cannot absolve sins, anoint the sick, bless marriages, or command bread and wine to become the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. The Church needs good Priests, Monks, Nuns, Religious Brothers and Sisters, and Laypeople, because we all serve the Church in some way. All the Priests I know are overworked because we lack vocations. In a more perfect world, we would be seeing a third of the population as Priests or Religious, as St. John Bosco says. We must pray for more holy vocations.
If Christ came today, I imagine he would say, “dude you sound like a Pharisee.” and Trent would call him a dirty hippie.
Years ago, my church played "Lean on Me" at the Life Teen Mass. I was appalled, as it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus and His Church. It's a good secular song that I will sing along with anytime outside of Mass. I never heard it played again and I don't believe they do Life Teen anymore, either. If they do, they don't advertise for it at Mass anymore.
Let’s all return to Gregorian chant its feeds the soul and is timeless I have loved it since I was a kid and I heard it on the radio it’s so so good 😍🙏🏼🕊️✝️❤️
Trent, this is so good! This has been an issue for so many Catholics, bad music. I would love if you would address another issue, the book Jesus Calling. In my Catholic bible study, the facilitators often open the session by reading from this new agey book. I haven’t heard any Catholic commentary on it and it’s pretty popular.
My Dad was our parish music director for 40 years before he passed in 2012. This topic would fire him up. He refused to play anything that was non-Catholic or had "bad theology". Got into several arguments with priest and never lost.
W Father
Stereotypical tyrannical musical director. LOL
@@ji8044:
No.
A man of principle.
A man of wisdom.
I used to hear all these hymns at my old Parish which is super progressive and liberal and I would just kind of lightly shake my head every single time. Why are we talking about how nice God is supposed to make us? God calls us to be good, not nice.
Exactly. It's incredibly frustrating to sit through these absurd hymns while we are supposed to be entering into the deeply sacred Mass.
You are spot on, Trent. Liturgy reflects theology. That’s why it is so important that the ancient expressions of worship remain unchanged. As a Greek Orthodox who yearns for reunification with the Roman Catholic Church and was excited about the upcoming Nicaea 2025 meeting, I really despair. It is so perplexing to us that the Pope would be pushing so hard to achieve unification while at the same be hell bent on converting the ancient See of Rome into a Protestant evangelical organization that will make unification impossible.
The principle you are referring to is called "lex orandi statuat legem credendi" and is among the oldest laws of the Church.
I hope some musicians will be listening to this. And some Bishops.
Thank you for making this video. Bad liturgical music has been a huge source of personal scandal for me for most of my adult life. I have sat through many Masses out of obedience to our Lord and his Church. Often on the verge of tears remembering myself over and over in my head that it’s still a valid Mass. Thank you for expressing very eloquently the concerns I have had for years.
I admit I was confused for a second there when I saw "Bread of Life" on the problematic songs list at 12:12. I had to look that one up with the composer's name and was relieved to find it was a different "Bread of Life" song from the one I was thinking of.
Hello, just curious, I’m not in that part yet of the video, but which one are you referring to? Which composer?
@@justforrfunnn The BAD one is by Bernadette Farrell. The GOOD one that I got it confused with is by Sr. Suzanne Toolan.
@ oh thank you! Turns out I know and like both of them 🥲
Worship songs written in the 1960s or newer are immediately suspect.
Amen
Need not be. Many are excellent if you look for them
Worship ??? You mean praise ?
Do you understand that some hymns have terrible theology?? It's never so black and white
ALL songs, no matter the timeframe are suspect. That’s because we are fallible human beings, so if what is being sung is not directly quoting scripture, we must observe the lyrics to make sure it does not give terrible theology. Reckless Love or songs saying we should give God reckless praise are songs I’ve found troubling
9:52 Can't believe we got The Room referenced in a Counsel of Trent video! One of my all time favorite movies!
He was really ... tearing apart the bad theology in some of these hymns
It was particularly funny for me to hear Trent say that, since my own name being “Mark” has enabled some of my peers and I to quote Tommy Wiseau, whenever I show up for certain meetings/get-togethers.
I was notified through patreon before TH-cam. Thanks for your great work Trent!
Chant with me...bring back chant! Bring back chant! Bring back chant!
I have got to interject one protestant gripe, if I may. Leonard Cohen's great cabaret song "Hallelujah." Great at a supper club, but please not in church. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
While the song sounds amazing, I would argue its not good at a supper club either because it is blasphemous, which you can discern if you pay attention to the lyrics.
Didn’t Cohen himself say that “Hallelujah” was a mourning song for a failed orgasm?
Wouldnt be surprised
(((Cohen)))
Omg... It's crazy... My parents' church uses this for their gospel acclamation... The crazy thing is that the priest picked it, but he also has kneelers and a spoon for people to receive on the tongue in his church... And if I remember correctly, only he and the Deacon give out the sacrament... No ELMs.
So every time I go, I've got this hilarious juxtaposition of the absolute worst things traditionalists hate combined with one of the top things they want brought back.
Nobody enjoys the feeling of a elementary school music class at mass
Unfortunately some do & most of them are at my parish 😪
Capital M for Mass
It's super condescending!
I would think the children do so that they *gasp* enjoy going to mass
So glad you included “Sing a New Church.” I was stunned the first time I heard it!
I am not Catholic, but several years ago, Mom and I were looking at TH-cam videos, and happened upon a Catholic assembly singing this song. There were huge hideous puppets that were made to dance down the aisles and then were later stationed at the back of the sanctuary, where they twisted and turned and were still actively part of the service. We found another with everyone (no idea which flavor of Christianity) where everyone on the platform was dressed as clowns and blew communion bubbles at the congregation. In a third video, a priest (no idea again the type) passes out the communion via participants in Halloween costumes, including one woman dressed as the popular caricature of the Devil, and the next morning he bragged about it saying, "I never thought to see the devil handing out communion." There were others, including some that were openly Catholic, such as the priest whose presentation made comparisons repeatedly between Jesus and clowns. It was a deeply disturbing evening.
😲!!!
Merry Music Monday, Trent! Prayed for you and everybody here at Mass yesterday and today in my Rosary. Hope you and yours have a light-filled peaceful joyful blessed Saint Valentine's week! Prayed to Lord Jesus for help with purity and chastity through the intercession of St. Valentine patron saint of love, young people, and marriage; St. Agatha martyr of purity; St. Mary of Egypt a sex addict turned saint; martyr St. Charles Lwanga; Saint Mary Magdalene patron saint of sexual temptation, people ridiculed for piety, women, penitent sinners, converts, and contemplative life; and St. Augustine of Hippo Doctor of Grace for help to unite our crosses to our Lord Jesus so they can be stepping stones to sanctity to be with Him forever in Heaven.
And for a favorite song!
Luke 1:46-56 The Canticle of Mary.
And Mary said:
“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness;
behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me,
and holy is his name.
His mercy is from age to age
those who fear him.
He has shown might with his arm,
dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones
but lifted up the lowly.
The hungry he has filled with good things;
the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped Israel his servant,
remembering his mercy,
according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever.”
Mary remained with her about three months and then returned to her home.
This comes after one of my favorite Bible verses bringing to mind the dignity of life-
When Mother Mary was pregnant with Jesus, she went on an about eighty mile joyous journey to visit her cousin Saint Elizabeth (patron saint of expectant mothers and pregnant women) in her hour of need, Elizabeth said referencing her tiny child in her womb John the Baptist who was conceived when she was in old age:
Luke 1:41-45 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, “Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
God bless your family, your Trent Team, and everybody here!
I'm a convert from Protestantism. I cannot tell you how much Protestantism is all about the "show," now. There is no Eucharist. What has replaced the Eucharist is... music. Terrible, horribly written, pop rock Christian music. If you don't have a band up front with lights, you aren't part of the Proddy Evangifundi movement. It's a terrible movement that is all about "show," no substance.
The terrible thing is that our Priest has given our new music director wide range, and we're listening to terribly written, and horrible protestant pop rock music in church....and we have to have pop-rock while we are in adoration?! WHY do we have to listen to terrible music when we are trying to commune with God? He's right here in front of me, but rather than me being able to pray, silently perform the rosary etc... no...I have to listen: JESUS IS WORTHY JESUS IS WORTHY JESUS IS WORTHY OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WHY?????? We KNOW HE'S WORTHY, CAN I PLEASE PRAY THE ROSARY IN SILENCE NOW?!?
Not only that but our music director literally only knows two psalms. We can NEVER have a variety of psalms, like the USCCB has different psalms every day...no, no, no it's always "If I hear you today o Lord, let me not harden my heart.'' I know it by heart. It's all we ever sing/say. I don't know any other responses.
As a musician, I can't imagine writing these lyrics and not knowing the sin I am committing. They had to have known.
We just need rid ourselves of the sappy, hippy folk music of the 60s, 70s and quasi Protestant music. Bring back traditional hymns and gregorian chants.
You hit the nail on the head about these hymns being man-centered. It's troubling that the bishop couldn't take a firm stand on his ban of these terrible hymns.
I’m the first sentence into the video and would just like to share this anecdote. Years ago, when I was fresh out of high school, I worked alongside my dad as a maintenance man and sacristan at a very large church in South Carolina. We had a few cantors that had decent voices… and some with some not so decent voices… and one that couldn’t carry a tune if it was strapped to her back.
This woman was not on the schedule to sing at the Easter vigil, and she wound up complaining so much that our priest forced the music director to give her spot. I don’t know if the Litany of the Saints could be displeasing to God, but that night it was definitely displeasing to me.
People who argue against Catholics that complain about the awful music we play at Novus ordo masses seriously forget a few key facts. One, Susan from the parish council isn’t just a stereotype. It’s a real and unfortunate phenomenon. Two, in all the years I’ve been going to my church, (since the mid nineties when I was a kid) I think we’ve had ONE music director that was actually Catholic. Every other one has been a Protestant. Our current one was the music director at the Lutheran church down the street before he came to our church. And three- modern church music STINKS. There isn’t a single song they regularly play at mass during ordinary time that I would ever listen to on Spotify. It all sounds like mid 20th century Protestant stuff.
Idk. I’ll continue the video now lol and if that sounded harsh I apologize, but I’ve been waiting for years for a major Catholic personality to call this problem out.
I agree with you absolutely!
@ I had to get it off my chest 😅. Glad to know I’m not alone here
Hey Trent, can we just get rid of HYMNS altogether and get back to the Mass as intended? Let's promote use of the PROPER CHANTS OF THE MASS?! Let's use the Introit, the Gradual (not the Responsorial Psalm), and the Communion chant. I am so tired of the 4-hymn sandwich that we have in most modern parishes! I think that we could get back to the proper reverence (even in the Ordinary Form of the Mass) if we removed HYMNS altogether and Mass was celebrated the way the CHURCH envisioned.
AMEN!
What you mention at 7:55 is the reason why I stopped listening to Pentecostal praise music like Hillsong or Maverick city music. Most of their songs are “me me me” or “all the things that God does for me”.
What do you think about this? Count the number of "I's" and "me's" in this.
"The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord
forever."
- Psalm 23
They are Charismatics. Sad fact is, most "Pentecostal" organizations have actually become Charismatic. They are weak on doctrine and weak on living a life separated from worldliness and fleshly lusts, which are more than mere desire for sex. I am thankful to belong to a group that has not compromised and still preaches the same things we received from our fathers.
And I actively push back against the use of Hillsong, Bethel, Elevation, or other such "churches". Bethel is a den of iniquity with all things evil and wicked on their platform, Bethel is filled with lying prophets and graft, and the pastor of Elevation has promoted his teen son who sings music about sex, drugs, and murder in graphic imagery, and has worn t-shirts with the image of the androgynous and cross-dressing David Bowie under his sport coat. It has become so bad that almost all megachurches could be preached against for punting Bibles, stripper poles, and who knows what other evils.
@@sidwhiting665I said most, not all😅 just take a look at the mainstream ones.
lyrics like "all the things God does for me" and other pentecostal music is testimonial, so telling the world through song about what God has done. this is beautiful and should not be criticised as the scriptures command us to testify of his Glory and good works in our lifes.
@@sidwhiting665I said most, not all.
This is an important subject. Thank you for raising it. Hymns should give glory and honour to God, in thanksgiving to Him. Anything else is unacceptable.
Thinking about it, I need to pay more attention to the music during mass.
100% do you sing at Mass?
Capital M for Mass
@ thank you. I realized that after I hit enter.
@ oh ya. I don't critique the songs too much however.
@@GraceElaineSings I notice that you have your own channel, I just subscribed!
I think the largest problem is playing music during the time we are receiving the eucharist. I want to kneel in SILENCE and speak to God while the eucharist is in my mouth and body. I don't want people around me singing or even the choir distracting me from the closest moment of week I will have with God.
That is only with the Novus Ordo Mass, when the congregation is urged to grab a hymn book right after receiving the Body of Christ, instead of offering prayers of thanksgiving.
Communion time in the past had always been silent, perhaps with a Latin hymn sung very softly by the choir, or soft organ music.
That "Mary did You Know" really kills me. It should be at the top of the list, imo.
Joe Heschmeyer did a breakdown of the theology of that song.
I don't think they sing that at church.
If Mary didn’t know, then it was a very sinister and involuntary participation in salvation history. Dumb song.
@@peanutman5240 I haven't heard it personally, but I put in quite a bit of effort to avoid attending these progressive churches where the Susan's are in control
Ya..it makes the Angel Gabriel redundant.
Yes, I agree. Somehow the hymns from old are no longer played.
The flipside to this is the number of perfectly good hymns that have been bowdlerised, gutted, or replaced completely. "Lo he comes" by Charles Wesley is an example. "Those who set at naught and sold him"... and "Deeply wailing, deeply wailing, shall the true Messiah see" are often changed to "We who.. and "Deeply grieving..." In our latest hymn books "Onward Christian Soldiers" has been replaced entirely by Onward Christian Pilgrims, four verses of IMO dreadful doggerel by Michael Forster. Same has happened to the Battle Hymn of the Republic, words replaced by "From the very depths of Darkness" again by Michael Forster.
We should not have to suffer through PROTESTANT songs at a CATHOLIC Mass!
Onward Christian Soldiers has been changed? That was one of my favorite songs as a child.
Two of my favorite hymns is “Come as You are” and “Here I am,Lord”❤✝️❤️
I agree with everything EXCEPT "Gather Us In". When my wife and I were in RCIA, our group regularly sang this song, bringing many of us to tears. Why? Because after decades of being 'outside' on our own, we were being invited in by Jesus who loves us. I don't think any of us thought this was anything but a welcoming song from a living, loving God.
He is right though.
There’s a decided narcism in the lyrics. It doesn’t sing glory to God. It’s a “look at me! Aren’t I special because I’m part of the cool club!”
I have mixed feelings about it. The tune is interesting, most of it is in Dorian mode, with a change to major key in the middle part and then back again.. But the criticism of the words is fully justified, it was written with an agenda.
The really bad part is in a later, less-used verse:
"Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven light years away
But here in this place the new light is shining
Now is the kingdom, now is the day"
It's a first draft song. Its problems could have been fixed before it was published.
Thank you for covering this topic. I will apply this information appropriately and I am happy that I have been enlightened to the poor lyrical choices of some popular songs.
God bless!✝️
The Sacred Dogmas of the Catholic Church has remained in existence for the past 2000 years for a very valid reason. Therefore I confess, I repent and ask God to forgive me of my sins! Thank you Jesus for instituting the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Truly liberating and life changing! Respect Trent for enlightening us on this subject of God’s Grace and Mercy but also our part in changing the errors of ways through sincere repentance!✝️🕊️📿❤️👏
When Christ was here, walking and talking and eating and sleeping and giving praise to Our Lord, the problem he pointed out was the Jewish people focusing only on the first commandment, 'you shall love your God with all your soul...'. Thus, he emphasized the second group of commandments, 'love one another...'. Nowadays, it seems to me that many have overemphasized the second group and even have forgotten the first one. We should always have the two groups coexisting in our hearts. And if you ask me, I am focusing on loving God with all my might because by loving Him, I will inevitably end up loving my neighbor.
Fr z years ago had an article where they took All are welcome and rewrote the lyrics. I don't remember them all but I remember there's one that goes. " We are the young our morals, a mystery, we are the old who couldn't care less".
That's "Gather Us In," not "All are Welcome."
@jdotoz My bad. You're right.
@7:52 Totally agree that the songs place too much emphasis on us and not the Creator of All, our Great Redeemer. Worship must be rightly ascribed to Him and we need not put ourselves in the way.
Trent, I 100% agree with you. But what are we supposed to do when we attend an AmChurch full of boomers? The hippy musical director isn't going to learn good music, the pastor doesn't care, and the pastoral council is full of people who like the music. We're stuck going to Mass every Sunday gritting our teeth thinking "Jesus is still here". A single generation ruined the Liturgy and it's going to take a heroic effort on thousands of priests and laity to fix it.
We lives in a rural area and the only parish near us is a Novus Ordo parish that has all the music that Trent is talking about in this video they even have a big TV in the parish that takes away focus on the Mass itself. I hope and pray to God that all Masses around the world become holy again.
You should send this video to the musical director
I'm a boomer & know most of my fellow boomer friends do not like the new music Please do not blame the boomers, I adore the sacred music they once played at masses long ago & do not like at all the new music. The last parishes I attended had chant & good liturgically sound music & had a kneeler set up during communion so we could knee & recieve the Eucharist. The priests at the masses I attended at the approved Marian apparition site in Champion WI ask you to recieve kneeling, on the tongue & at the communion rail. Beautiful place by the way
Offer it up and pray for change.
Sincerely,
Someone in the same boat
Boomer here. I go to 7am Mass because it’s the only one without the hideous hymns and howling off pitch cantors. I want to worship not relive Woodstock. Also I’m a musician so off pitch singing drives me nuts. Yes go with Gregorian chant!
The “Gather Us Out” thumbnail as pure genius.
I am glad I have never heard any of theses songs at Mass.
Nailed it, Trent!
Saw this one last year...."Bless my hands so that the hands I touch with my hands are also blessed"🙃
Oh no... 😮
Eeewww
I recall there used to be a website devoted to eliminating Marty Haugen and David Haas hymns from the hymnal. Works for me.
"Chicago cover bands", man, did Trent bare his heart or what?
Probably Leonid and Friends from Russia…they are awesome
My friend is a Syro-Malankara Catholic, one of 2 Eastern Catholic rites from India. They have beautiful hymns that preserve the original Syriac language and Indian/Syrian blend of tunes of the early Catholic Church in India converted by St. Thomas. In America they also use those same ancient hymns but translated into English and Indian languages. Their liturgy is so beautiful and reverent because of this.
CANON LAW has rules on the publication and sale in churches of books dealing with matters of religion. Such books need the approval of "the competent ecclesiastical authority", but neither publishers nor most churches seek it.
I can appreciate the "bad theology" argument for dropping/altering hymns and imho altering should be preferred where possible since a lot of these hymns have a lot of significance for a lot of people, and oftentimes the objectionable parts are one or two lines or just a couple of words. If a whole verse is bad you can drop it and either replace it with a good one or just not use it. What gets annoying is when people object based on musical snobbery/preferences, though I can understand that too since I also used to stick up my nose at "cringey" hymns, but I've developed an appreciation for them as simple and genuine. (Also I'm super lactose tolerant and love cheese.)
And there are so many good hymns that shouldn't get thrown under the bus. What Wondrous Love is This is the song of all time to me, and Canticle of the Turning, O God Beyond All Praising,I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say, and so many others are all great.
(Also can we stop blaming "Susan from the parish council" for everything? Your local "Susan" probably does more to keep the parish running than just about anyone else, even if she can be abrasive. Maybe try working with her instead of using her as a scapegoat.)
Oh man.... amen! We need Thomas Aquinas level poetry and hymns with sound Eucharistic theology. I'll sign up to do it in my own genre of industrial electronic music.
Omg so glad you did this. I get mad every time I hear Mary did you know...so hate the focus on self
All the changes made to the Mass after Vatican 2 were made in the direction of moving the attention of the laity from God, and put it toward men. Why would we think that the music wouldn't be affected in the same way?
If we want the Mass to be what it used to be, fully directed toward Christ/God as humanly possible, we have to eliminate a lot more than just bad hymns. What actually must be eliminated are folk/rock bands (guitar, bass, drums, keyboards/piano, etc.) and move back to chant with orchestra/organ accompaniment when available as Vatican 2 instructed, eliminate lay ministers, bring back altar rails and kneeling to receive Christ on the tongue, remove women from around the altar (including altar girls) according to scripture, reorient the Priest back toward the tabernacle to direct the attention of everyone back toward God and away from men (i.e. the Priest) and finally reintroduce full genuflection toward God when physically able, no more bowing toward God unless necessary. All these things in the Novus Ordo, turn the attention of the laity, and even the clergy, toward each other and diminishes the recognition of the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. All attention, and that which directs attention in the Mass, should be solely directed toward God/Christ.
Amen you hit the nail on the head
13:00 if everybody read SC, the liturgical quality of the NO would increase 100 fold. What we got after the council was not what the council called for.
Well the NO goes against about half of SC, so obviously the “reformers” of the Mass didn’t read sacrosanctum
I remember a few years ago (it was before Covid). They had that big snowstorm around the time of the March For Life. a lot of the marcher teenagers got stuck in their busses on the way back home. somebody wrote a parody of one of those terrible hymns and replaced some of the words with something about the snowstorm and being stuck.
5:57 I learned it as "sin-ECK-doh-key"
Can confirm.
@@jollyvery Like the city in New York.
Wasn’t expecting the cinematic triumph that is The Room to make an appearance. Great editing.
It’s wild how a Bishop will remove his ban on problematic hymns because of a fuss, while simultaneously so many bishops would never budge on banning ad orientem mass or communion rails.
Organist here. That’s good to know about “Gather Us In!” I relate to your statement about guilty pleasure hymns, since there are some contemporary songs I genuinely really like. But I try to stick to traditional pieces as much as possible, and just mentally placed “Gather Us In” in that category, for the sheer fact it sounds pretty good on the organ!
Trent glad you included the song '' Mary don't you know'' This song always bothered me because, It seems to give the impression that Mary was just this naive clueless girl who really didn't understand fully what she said ''yes'' too , my personal feelings for Mary was that she was extremely intelligent and not bashful either, example ''Wedding at Cana'' she spoke up and Jesus was very loving and attentive to what she had to say.
Can’t wait to see you at the Men’s conference on Feb 22 at the St Mary Mother of God church in Middletown NJ
We need more chant and 1700-1800s vernacular hymns
Thhhhiiiiiisssss!!! ❤️🔥💯❤️🔥💯❤️🔥💯❤️🔥💯
You are not going to win the next generation for Christ by being so anachronistic!
Truuuuuue. Check Out the 1982 Episcopalian hymnal. It's got a wealth of these!! (Obv be careful with Catholic theological Concepts. It's mostly solid tbh)
@@DPK5201 Like the generation is too stupid to comprehend how old hymns are beautiful. Ridiculous.
@@DPK5201you’re right. That must be why novus Ordo crap has pushed more people out of the church than anything before. Our contemporary music is even outdated by Protestant standards. TLM is growing bigger
So well said. I honestly think parish councils have way too much say at local parishes. There are so many people who feel it is their church, and things should be done. The way they want them to be
Except sometimes parish councils might be more traditionalist than the priest... But also, gifts.
Bringing hymns back into homes is my mission! On my TH-cam I share traditional (always reverent) hymn singalongs and in my program, Sing With Grace, I teach families how to sing 2 hymns each month and how to do it with great vocal technique! 😊
@@GraceElaineSings subscribing & adding to prayer list ✅️
@randymeier8335 thank you! Your prayers are greatly appreciated. As a convert, this is a deep passion of mine because the progressive music played in Catholic parishes almost kept me from converting!
I thank God I focused on the True Presence in the Eucharist. Now I'm working to heal the music of the Church in my own little way.
@GraceElaineSings amen amen! St. Cecilia, pray for Us!
Wow, I just discovered you I have never seen or heard of you before. At first, I was a little shocked then I listened. Wow you are a astute logical brilliant thinker. Thank you for calling us to the carpet on these willy-nilly songs. You would really probably appreciate the visiting Catholic Church. They're a little more exactly down to what you're talking about that we are supposed to be turning towards becoming close to what God intended us to beby depending on him to create us a new person gosh, I'm so happy to hear you speak God bless you and thank you
Part of the problem is some people go to mass for the "good" music, reflective homily or the friendship of the parishioners. I think they are missing the point of the mass.
I second that, but it's A LOT not just some people.
I am so glad to hear that someone else thinks the same way I do about some of these songs - too much focus on us and many are downright blasphemous. If you have to jump through hoops to make them acceptable, that's a problem. People take these songs at face value, so the incorrect theology just gets accepted as correct. We should not accept songs just because they have a nice sound/melody. The songs in Mass should be reinforcing our Catholic teachings, not making us into a protestant service.
We used to sing on eagles wing at our elementary school masses. Love it 😍
Yeah on eagles wings goes hard
@ My teacher, who was a nun, taught it to us. I can picture her face still after all these decades 🩵
A cringe hymn
Never knew this is a debate among Catholics until my reversion lol. Grew up listening to it. It will forever be my guilty pleasure now.
I am not a lyrical musician, but my jazz ears are always in bliss when ever I attend Mass. The Organ player at my parish is wonderful, we are friends, He slips up his chords sometimes and my ears pick it up immediately, and I always smirk when he messes up. It makes me feel we all make mistakes no matter how good we are at our skills :D