Stalling, Hesitating...Fuel Trim Variables! Buick V6
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2018
- This 2005 Buick LaCrosse came in with a list of complaints: check engine light, hesitation, stalling out...
But the trouble codes only tell half the story...
Once again we have to switch on our BRAIN and figure out how several simultaneous issues can come together to give some weird symptoms!
Enjoy!
Ivan - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
My 2004 Buick Park Ave had the exact symptoms. After watching this video I was empowered to fix my car with my husbands help, but I was the brains behind the project. Replaced Oxygen sensor, idle sensor, air intake filter, removed throttle body to thorough clean it. Engine light and symptoms went away. Thank you Ivan you saved my hundreds of $$
Cars has a mind of there own!!! Great diagnostic and repair video Dr.Ivan and as always keep them videos coming.
As always, a fantastic video. Love learning from Ivan.
My dumb self actually said bless you when you sneezed 😂 fantastic video. Came over here from SMA
No n😢 no😢🎉🎉🎉😢tj bm
Folks don't mind paying for a decent repair, honest, intelligent, effective mechanics are very rare.
I have always cleaned the throttle body when I did a oil change or tune up but it is nice to see actually what it changes
Thanks for your time to teach us. I have a 05 Buick LaCrosse 3.8L V6 that was sitting for almost 6 months while I left to take care of my mother out of state. Now it’s acting up. It almost does the same as the one in your video.
It's so good to see you posting videos again Ivan - thank you (y)
My pleasure!
Very satisfying diagnosis and repair!
Ivan,
Great video and diagnosis. Very helpful.
Thank you and God bless
Paul
Dr Ivan..you’re the best my friend..Blessings 👏👏🙏👍
Excellent job Ivan!
So true about the 90's buicks! We owned three used ones in a row and we still look back fondly at the ride and the room. it was like driving a sofa!
94 LeSabre had the softest sofa I've ever sat on... no joke haha
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics I prefer the 1st generation 3800 cars, 1988-1990, the more boxy styled Buicks & Oldsmobiles. The interiors were so gorgeous and the built to last.
Got that one beat... Had an '81 Chrysler Cordoba with cloth interior (Yeah, I know.. Ricardo M. was pushing the Corinthian Leather at the time). It was more comfortable than my living room sofa... My dad and I loved it so much that we each sold it to each other at least twice... lol.
Great video Ivan, good diagnosis. You need to add some dramatic music when you pull that Brake Clean out. :)
Great video Ivan! Wish my Buick 3.8 had an aluminium intake, I've had to replace the plastic one twice. And apparently if your belt squeals, and fuel trims are off, just clean the throttle body! Seriously though, really enjoyed the video thanks.
Good Job Ivan always a pleasure to watch your vids
Thanks for stopping by, Mike :)
Ivan. Learned more about fuel trims today. Mainly the oscillation up and down from the center of 450mv. I like to know that even though I don't have a scope to see it. :)Excellent info on that throttle body. I have a 2007 Lacrosse, (3.6ltr with NO plastic heater hose elbows. ha, ha that I am now starting to gain knowledge on how to work on it. That's thanks to YOU and ERIC O.! :) Thanks, Ivan.
Another great video, Mr. Ivan
Great learning video, thanks for sharing your logic and thoughts with this one.
Always a good video thanks for your time.
Holy crap, that issue just started on my grandma's 2005 lacrosse. I've been subbed to you for a while, what a coincidence!
Nice! Now go fix your grandma's car! Maybe she will bake you some cookies ;)
Haha! Thanks!
She lives a few hours away and she said the issue stopped, so I'm hoping the O2 sensor is okay and that she only has a dirty throttle body. She doesn't drive too often so hopefully it'le be okay until we have time.
Thank you for doing this video man. I know it takes a-lot of time editing etc. Apparently, I need a head lamp lol. Things are a life saver.
Another great diag, so much easier to work on then eurotrash. You are really keeping busy with both jobs. Best of luck my friend
Thanks Stephen! Now I come home from work and fixing cars is like being on vacation ;D
excellent video Ivan.
nice fix Ivan no parts required for t.b good job👍
The metal plate assembly behind where the spark plug boots plug in can be corroded, and can cause all kinds of hell on the engine. Cleans up with sandpaper.
This is really a good example of not over thinking a repair. Just fix things that are proven to be bad and try it again.
Thank you Ivan. Good job
Yes- with this system, when certain hard faults are set, the ECU goes to "default mode" (limp in) and repair results are only reflected by clearing the codes and restart. Some older GM BCM codes are only cleared by a 10 minute battery disconnection; it's called "Keep Alive Memory".
Oh wow what an awesome video, my 2006 Buick Allure was doing the exact thing your customers car was doing! Stalling, give it gas when warm to restart etc. I had the same P0128 code but my other code is P0446, so hopefully someone on youtube or yourself has insight to check that out. I don't have that sweet mega bucks diagnostic scanner you have, only a po boy $30 code reader. Thanks again so much for the video and you sir are in the right field for doing auto repairs!
Good Stuff Ivan
I would of reset the fuel trims after o2 replacement,and a idle relearn. But I seen the great results. Gotta love those 3800.
these cars are notorious for hard to find electrical problems.
You Rock! The exact same problem as my 2005 LeSabre 3800. Thank you!
Keep it coming! nice VID. awesome DIAG. great INFO! three thumbs up!
Thanks Tony! Have a great weekend!
That wasn't pulse width modulation on the heater circuit. That was Morse code for "Fix me, Ivan!" And you did. :)
great job Ivan
Awesome vid! I've always been told to absolutely never manually open a drive by wire throttle body. The little plastic gears allegedly break. Thanks again.
Bobby Scott I heard that too but for ECM dollywangle problems. I did it before I heard that and nothing happened so ?
Barry Shaw Well, I just buttoned everything back up and it never skipped a beat but that’s on an 05 Oddy. Anything else I couldn’t say.
Good work my friend.
Nice repair. 👍
Started out like one of those new fangled auto start/stop systems. I see the 2019 Buicks have added the cancel stop/stop back so the owner has control over it. I agree about the old 95 ish Buicks. I still have a one owner Riviera with 165k that is a strong, smooth runner.
Haha here I was thinking I was the only hoarder of anti seize, dielectric grease packets, and lube from perfect stop brake pads.
Good diagnosis Ivan & repair. Dirty TB cause lots of issues so as soon as I see anything over 8% I clean the TB & MAF plus it only takes a few minutes to keep the customer's car running good. PCM fuel trim relearn & happy car & customer. Great video and hope the new job is going well!
Thanks Bob! Amazing how a few simple tune-up items can restore a car's driveability :)
It is indeed amazing how the little forgotten things add up. I'm actually surprised that the effect of cleaning the TB surprised you so, Ivan. You're obviously a smart guy.
I’m learning so much from you thank you
I've learned so much from you thank you
Great job Ivan. I had a feeling the sensor would act weird with out clearing the codes first. 👍
Totally awesome information. Thanks
Those 3800 engines, both NA and SC are solid, Besides the leaking intake, I've never had to open one up. Then again, most were in Buicks owned by grandma and grandpa. Too bad GM killed it. I think that engine supercharged, if it was still made, would easily make 300+hp and still get good gas mileage. GM needs to bring it back.
Those engines are much more complex, and I think simple is good when it comes to moving parts, in terms of reliability. I would rather make 300 hp with a supercharger, rather than 4 cams and all the necessary parts that accompany such a design.
I have 294,000 on my 2001 lesabre with the original plastic intake, I've had to replace the upper and lower gaskets but that's it and of course the plastic coolant elbows.
my uncle had a sc 3800 in his park avenue- think i could get one in a monte carlo- they race at daytona? no
I replaced a TON of those engines due to rod knocks. Prob did 30+ from like 2010-2015.
these cars are notorious for hard to find electrical problems and burning oil. Garbage compared to old 350 and 396.
I owned an 07 did the start then stall thing nice to know the issue. Really loved the car 200000 miles and no issues what so ever.Hit a deer and totaled it miss the car very very much.
They are very solid vehicles. 2008 was the last year for the real 3800 V6 Buick engine :)
Thanks you are a live saver. Now you have a new follower
The o2 was just as you said, dying for quite awhile, so the PCM learned around it, to keep the customer from walking for as long as possible. So now that it sees good readings, it has no idea what to do. Clearing codes is just the 1st step. It needs a decent test drive to rest long term fuel strategies in most cases. However, in your case, with the TB jacked open more than the PCM liked, but not enough to set a code, it may have had 2 problems to deal with at 1 time...
Yes these cars are as compilcated as a woman
Top mechanic technician
They were called "Pillow Back" seats back in the day.
Nice info thanks.!
great video u did an excellant job
Really know what your doing ...awesome 😁🐕
I use the anti sieze for spark plugs threads. Always have denso packets laying around.
That was the problem with my 05 Grand Prix just needed a throttle body cleaning but same symptoms start stall give it a little throttle and started right up and no stall
We have two of those 3800 engines in the family, one has the plastic manifold which I replaced right after I bought it with 32,000 miles on it. The car was 19 years old so before putting it on the road I had it replaced even though it had super low miles. Sure enough, the gasket was in poor condition but inside the engine looked new. If you can find one of these rust free with less that 50K on the clock BUY IT! These 4 door sedans are rock solid like the older Mercedes and if you take care of the engine you can easily get 250K miles out of them. As far as the transmissions go they too will last if you are diligent on the fluid flushes. When I bought these I bought new pans with drain plugs and had both of them flushed with all new fluids. Once you have a drain plug you can drain and add 4 quarts of fluid fairly easy. Wallmart sells the GM approved fluid for less than $4 a quart, cheap insurance IMO. I don't worry much about the transmission filter after the first flush, the filters will last another 100K miles or more. If you keep a good battery, alternator and serpentine belt, and a clean throttle body your problems will be few. Like any car you have to maintain it, if you want the car to take care of you then take care of it. TheReaper!
They don't make em like they used to that is for sure!
You want to find a car that old or older and rust free? Come on down to Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. You can find them everywhere, even in the junk yards.
Yep, there's a reason they park mothballed airplanes and trains there (Arizona). Sure do miss living there.
Joeblackakareaper:
Most effective way to flush is to do it through the trannycooler lines for a vehicle without a torque converter drain plug (usually a 2 person deal/one to shut off engine when fluid stops flowing)....just repeat the cycle until fluid looks new and no burned/or old smell is apparent. Whatever comes out during the cycle of flushing (milk containers are a great way to measure what comes out during the flush cycle)...you fill with new fluid. Wally World sells (their brand) 1 gallon Dextron for about $12.00. A vehicle in need of a serious flush will take 4-5 gallons.
For extreme cleaning and flushing...I will typically use a half gallon+ of gasoline on the 1st/2nd flush cycle. Friend has a CRV....had shifting and noise issues.....used a gallon+ of gasoline to clear-up the valve-body,etc. After doing that, shifting/noise issues went away . Freaking tranny-cooler line on that Honda was so easy to disconnect and drain into milk container...no vinyl tubes were required to get a good aim into the container.
After a REAL flush....then you remove the pan,differential plug,/change filter and top-up.
One of my cars....not only is there a drain plug for the pan....it also has a torque-converter drain plug....a rare item on newer vehicle these days.
these cars are notorious for hard to find electrical problems and burn oil
I don't mind watching you Ivan, it is 21 out right now and I can't think whether I want the car cold or hot. Wish I had a cheap good obd2 reader.
Great video Ivan as we were told by Dec up here in ny if it says anything about California its california emissions being we have to use carb compliant converters and yes they check us they have fined many shops and converter dealers so remember if the catalyst sticker says cal its cal emissions
That's what I usually go by, but this OEM part number crossed over to a Federal sensor so go figure lol
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics certain things we can't trust the oe on anymore thats when you know its getting bad
Great vid!!!
Bless You!
This is what happens when you start out with a well-built car and a well-educated mechanic/engineer. TheReaper!
throttle body fits perfect in a 6L sonic cleaner. The electronic throttle control sits above the fluid line. The rest gets nice and clean.
02 rendezvous 3.4l -bought used from dealer. never warmed up and hesitated on acelerate and up hill. replaced thermo and cleaned throttle body-both NO longer undesired result.
o2 and throttle clean.awasome
My uncle was a engineer at Beckman back in the day. I liked my 04 Impala with 3.8 except the transmission they used with them
Is he still alive ? Real question 😐
"Computer isn't that smart" is a knock for the computer engineer
Electrical engineer 😉
good walk through.nice fix. alum intake ?
that flex head ratchet can REALLY come in handy some times.. I id not realize t until a few years ago I just happened to buy one for the heck of it..was taking the shock off my motorcycle..and there is NO WAY I could have got to the bolt without it ( No way to get it loose either until I put a floor jack under the handle and jacked it up to break it free LOL )
One of my favorite tools!
love how you mention Eric o....new to your channel....you know him?
good morning ivan! better car than the bmw to work on anyways! the belt might have grease on it from a leaking cv boot causing the squeak if you do the stat make sure its a 195 there are 180s out there.... dave
cool! The belt was original from 2005...dry and cracked lol
Thank You
The 3800 was the second best engine in the history of GM. Only the SBC could be considered better. Far superior to it's replacements which pretty much suck. The series III came with the aluminum intake. The Series II had the crappy plastic intake manifold. The 3800 with the supercharger never had the intake problem as the supercharger took the place of the intake manifold. The 3800 with the supercharger was a very fast car. The turbo Grand Nationals were faster than the Corvettes of the same era which is why GM discontinued them.
I have the same vehicle he is talking about in the video with a phantom stall issue. New o2 sensors, fuel rail, throttle body, cat, upper and lower intake, egr, maf, crank position sensor, plugs and plug wires. Still it has the infamous intermittent phantom stall. Local shop gave up before the upper lower intake. I did those, and the rest of it. After all my work and still having issues took it to Buick, they basically said they could find it and wanted to tear down my upper/lower intake work to be sure I did it right. I’ll add that I checked compression and all looks good there. I have a bluedriver reader I’m learning to use not something as good as the one in the video here. I get o2 sensor codes and sometime the AIR pump. I’m at the point I don’t trust driving the car anywhere because it will stall and I’ll have to wait 10-15 min before it will start again.
All the bigger parts were verifiably worn, the lower intake was leaking (found it by chance). Its had two oil changes to be sure Ive cleaned coolant from the motor.
I’m at a loss at this point and not feeling the love for this engine.
PS - replaced the coil packs and ignition module before it went to the first shop.
@@chrisb1975 I know this is a year old but did you check fuel pressure, a fuel pump starting to go will cause stalling. I learned that the hard way last May at 3am when my fuel pump quit and I signed up for AAA while stranded, I got the AAA plus but the free 100 mile towing doesnt start until a week after you sign up, the first 5 miles are free, it cost me $95 that morning oh and the fuel is accessed through an opening in the trunk, the old trick of banging on it didn't even work, it was dead, almost a year later and no stalling or any issues.
but no sc in monte carlo thanks chevy
these cars are notorious for hard to find electrical problems. burns oil too
Awesome fix. My 05 LeSabre had a relatively clean looking throttle body plate. Cleaned the junk out of it. New mas, new iac, still bit of problem on hot starts. Maybe need to clean throttle plate more!
Never did mess with o2 sensors. Tune up etc. No codes showing. ??? Tnx
Awesome fix. My 05 LeSabre had a relatively clean looking throttle body plate. New mas, new iac, still bit of problem on hot starts. Maybe need to clean throttle plate more!
Never did mess with o2 sensors. No codes showing. ??? Tnx
Ivan, you seem to be working on more cars now than before you got the new job!
I need a vacation haha
Good vid
I wish all cars were that easy to repair. Nothing like simple troubleshooting.
-I know what you mean Ivan, it seems like 90's car seats were more plush and padded. They didn't look as nice perhaps, but these new car seats aren't as good in many ways in terms of comfort.
PS Hoping maybe there will be a summer Mercury Mystique Krowning Video ;)
Thank you
Sometimes GM gets it right. Easy access to the 02 sensor and an aluminum intake. Nice diag. Ivan.
I love the 3800's. Especially when the strengthened up the bottom ends and when back to a metal upper intake on the series 3. Now they are gone forever. I think 2011 was the last model year for them in any make.
FrugalPrepper's Garage & Garden I prefer the series 1 3800's. I've owned several and currently, all series 1, and I believe they were built better from 1988-95. All metal, strong, no plastic intake and the most reliable engine in any car I've owned. Had one crankshaft sensor go out and the car wouldn't start but other than that never a problem. Easily get 200,000 out of an American made product!
It's a rarity that GM does it right. The 3800 is indeed a good proven engine, but plastic coolant elbows WTF? It took a company like Dorman to come out with an upgraded design: aluminum. I still favor the Honda J-series V6.
Having owned various models of buicks for the last 18 yrs or so i have say to that while the this engine was strong, everything else was a problem. They’re going to keeping mechanics busy for years to come!
I heard that when carb cleaning the "modern" butterfly's you should unplug the electrical connector to it. ie. not drive by wire. What do you think?
Omg! Thank u so u saved me so much$$$$
Good thanks
Got an 05 lacrosse. Had the exact same symptoms. Dirty throttle body, and MAF was on its way out
Exselete diagnostic Tec. Amigo
Hhmmm interesting!
This gives me some hopeful ideas with my Mazda.
My Mazda6 has has been running poorly, smoke a lot while on acceleration, hesitate and stumble. It also felt down on power.
Unfortunately the engine blew before I could figure out why it was running poor. Seems the cause of failure was a clogged PCV. Pressure built up, popped a seal and rapidly pushed all oil out.
From a log I have from before when the engine failed, it showed -15 long term fuel trim when cruising on the highway while showing up to -30 on the short term fuel trim at the moments it would hesitate and stumble. Looking at it now, it showed a throttle position of 18 while idling.
Now I don't know if the PCV being bad could have caused these issues, that's what we were thinking. At the time I was looking at MAF and O2 sensors, but the engine blew before I had figured out what was wrong. All this happened in like 5 days.
It'll get a new engine, but the new engine could get the same problems as the old engine if it was a sensor or such, or a dirty throttle body.
Could a dirty throttle body cause these problems as well?
Nah sounds like you had more serious issues. Have to read the trouble codes first!
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics That was the problem, there were no trouble codes.
Not even a misfire code, even though it would sometimes misfire badly for 10 seconds straight.
I once heard an EPA guy say that three states set the standers for the rest of the states California, New York, can't recall the other one but anyway thought it would be interesting to put that out.
Having issues now with one stalling at random times. Throws throttle body code but after chasing my tail for a year with it I just carry a scanner with me and reset it when it faults, with doing that it will be good for another 2 weeks or so.
It looked lik you were using a '92 Texas Instruments calculator to check the 2 O2 wires. Had a bit of a MacGyver feel to it
Eh! Ivan yes spot on easy fix great engines
If you have intermittent, transient/persistent stalling issues it may be the cat
converter - Meineke cut mine out and replaced it for ~$200 - Stainless
steel pipe and mufflers (04SS) still good - The MAF sensor codes have
since stopped (2+) years ~15k mi since (total 136k) - went thru 2
sensors over a few years before the 3rd throw of the P MAF sensor code after more
weird stalling issues - after 6-8 months from replacement #2. The auto
guru I know suggested something else is afoot. Hence, Meineke...They
said the innards of the cat converter get twisted/turned and causes
issues. ATbest.
i like to use plumbing flux/acid/epoxy brush to spread the anti-seize down into all the threads evenly, if not most of it just gets deposited to on the outside washer/contact surface and hands/tools lol
What would possibly happen if you put federal O2 sensors in a California emissions car? I have a phantom stall going on and think I have addressed just about everything except the camshaft sensor and the PCM that would be a culprit. I get two O2 sensor codes when it stalls and occasionally the air pump code. Questioning now if I got the right sensors.
Good diag Ivan. The ECM has adaptive memory for TAC system. It increases throttle angle as deposits build up.How ever this a slow learn. When the battery is disconnected [new batt, clear code etc.] that memory is lost and resets to base throttle angle, which causes the stalling/hard start. Seems like you have a passion for automotive repair, why do you not work in this industry for a day job- at a shop or a dealer? You would gain a lot of experience and knowledge working in the field every day
Me work in a dealership? Hell no I wouldn't last two days hahaha
Is it just my imagination or did the O2 sensor oscillate faster and with a wider range once the TB was cleaned?
how do you adjust a fuel trim if needed?
I'm going to start with cleaning my throttle body thank you very much great fix .so it dosnt die after starting and the restart just so it dies gets confusing trying to explain when it dies hub.cause mine will run great going to the store but when I go back out it will die then il try to start it up again and it will stay running but it stumbles a little is this tippecal for a gunked up throttle body? Thanks il take my answer off the air long time listener first time yeller😉
97 limited lesabre has an E 10 (code?) on radio when i start up? Also the automatic HVAC temp light blinks? Owner Manuel say take to service shop.