I must apologize for the severe trauma I'm inflicting upon your poor soul. Such a condition must be agonizing when encountered with my heartfelt descriptions
It's funny having decks with lots of big draw so they can run all the 2-drop rocks. To the slower decks that wants the +2 mana rocks and ramp like Worn Powerstone exactly for compactness. Also agree with the value in lands. IT's nice to have the digging lands, but even having a few of the mana filtering Surveil lands like Conduit Pylons to smooth out my game whenever they show up.
They have genuinely won me entire games by just allowing me to turn my excess mana into cards. Its basically all I do with my Thantis deck and it works really well
The description below the video really brought all the ideas together after the video, I definitely recommend everyone give it a look after they finish the video.
I agree with everything you said here. I would only add that the quality of your card draw matters. Recurring card draw such as Rhystic Study, Phyrexian Arena, Consicrated Sphinx, and The One Ring orcards that immediately refill your hand like wheels do way more to keep you in the game then a generic creature or sorcery that only draws you one or two cards. Also, be careful with X spells. Nothing hurts like spending +10 mana on a spell only to have it countered for two (or less) blue mana.
Agreed. My main point in the value proposition was that whatever you decide to spend your mana on needs to be worth it. It can be low to the ground like ghostly pilferer, accruing card advantage incrimentally, or it can be something bigger and splashier like hansk, elder brain, or hyldas crown of winter. As far as the X spell thing I agree it would suck if it got countered but unfortunately it feels like the "dies to removal" argument where its not exactly a reason to not run something since everything fits that criteria. It may be a much bigger lightning rod for that thing which is more of a valid argument but even still, if you're in an endgame grindfest its a meaningful game action that may make or break your game
@ToggoRock I think that we are basically on the same page. My point is less of a dies to removal argument than what you called a "lightning rod" where spending 10, 15, 20 mana on an X spell only to have it countered is a huge tempo loss. Be sure to back it up with counterspells, have something in play to prevent it from being countered, or you might just be better off with a 3 to 6 mana option listed above. I see X spells as being less versatile and more situational. I'm happy to run them in decks where they are protected (Taigam, Hall of Gemstone, Grand Abolisher, Teferi), you have value synergies to offset the cost (Hinata, Gargos, Zaxara), or are just so efficient that they can win the game on the spot (Torment of Hailfire, Exsanguinate). Otherwise, I stick to more low to the ground options like the ones in my original post.
Agreed. I think that however tempo loss isn't really a considerable enough factor in a grindfest to consider not casting it. The issue is that no one is doing anything impactful so there's no tempo to begin with thus making there very little cost to actually try and throw it out there. I'd agree that X spells can be very situational to actually slot into a deck but I think something like expansion//explosion is a good example of something that slots in well because it helps early and can also potentially give you a lead in the endgame. But yes I'd agree, it seems like we'd basically on the same page and just arguing semantics lol
There’s been a bit of a trend the past year or so of every MTG content creator basically saying ‘Run more X’ for everything you can think of, so I’m glad you’ve actually discussed opportunity cost and utility density. If the average player were to build a deck the way TH-cam tells them now it would be 42 lands 12-24 sources of ramp, and everything else should be a removal spell, board wipe, or hatebear/hoser that all needs card draw stapled on. The part of the deck where *your* deck idea goes is the command zone, that’s it. Playing a little slower with more impactful cards is much more the point of Commander. Your Timeless Witness vs Eternal Witness helps crystallise that idea succinctly. If you’re a super low to the ground deck then eWit is great, but in basically everything else where you’re more midrange, the added value of reusing tWit massively outweighs the extra mana.
Thank you kindly. I've found the same thing to be true where people say "run more x" but now how to run more of anything. Thats why I try to find ways for people to have an easier time slotting things in and properly consider the impact of not doing so
To Add some more nuance to Eternal Witness/ Timeless Witness: sure is a bit better with its eternalize on its own but with cards like Court of Arvendale /Sun Titan type cards. they become a 2 card recursion engine. I run Eternal Witness in a precon level recursion deck that tries to get ahead on activated abilities while it staxes the table with one spell per turn hatebears as well as rug of Smothering. I think for most decks the one mana doesnt make too much of a diffence since u never want to play this on curve, but its cost *does* in fact matter
That's fair. Its a niche synergy that would incentivize you to play ewit over timewit but in most cases I think timewit provides more value when it doesnt have niche synergies. I'd say we're basically on the same page lol
Less "card advantage" but some late game value are man lands. Most are monetarily cheap (lets ignore the colorless trio) and the recent ones in woe and lci have attack triggers too. Theyre mostly tapped duals which imo are better the temples in around 85% of scenarios, but are a mana sink later when you have nothing else to do. Besides, whats 2 tapped duals going to do to your 30 basic land stack? Ive personally been challenging any 2-3 color deck i make to play at least 1 manland and get some value out of it.
Fair enough. My favorite one of these is actually Crawling Barrens. It allows you to sink all your mana into it turn after turn to grow it more and more and make it a true threat and the counters stick around
These are videos on good topics that are pretty well thought out, and I think a way to further clean them up would be getting some editing software to cut out the dead air and mispronounciations- those happen to everyone! It'll just help it be better polished. A couple extra dry runs of reading your script may also be useful. Keep it up, looking forward to what you do and I've subscribed
Thank you. Unfortunately until I'm monitized I can't really afford to spend money on any kind of software. I'm hoping that once I reach the proper watchtime and get monitized I can get an editor, it'll allow me to reduce the friction I have with making the videos and post more often. But yeah I probably do need to inspect my script more before I record. I didnt notice the mess ups until post and by that time it was too late
Alr who tf made a perfect generic copy of salubrious snail Like you have the same voice it's uncanny 😳 Y'all mustve been from the same mitosis Quite meaningful and funny of you
Genuinely he's my main inspiration for making my own channel since we share SOO many deck building philosophies and I saw 3/3 elks rapid success so I decided to throw my hat into the ring. I felt like theres a lot more to talk about though like removal engines, value proposition, mana curve, etc. So I felt like if I wanted to see more of it, I needed to be that change
To cycle it. I've seen people running streeth wraith, urza's bauble etc. And yes while they cycke effectively making your deck 1 card thinner, thats not exactly a good thing
What i do is look at a card and say perhaps its good but is this card living its best life in my deck. Is it better in another deck? Sometimes if the answer is yes i'll cut it. Like Esper Sentinel. A superb card in +1/+1 counter decks. In my deck it's easy to play around and dies to everything. If my deck was CEDH and everyone is racing to finish 1st, then I'd definitely run it. Same with rhystic study. In CEDH Rhystic Study gets out of hand real easy. In my deck it draws me a bunch of ticked off opponents opting for player removal. Another card people should stop playing in casual commander is Mystic Remora. It's a house in CEDH where people can't afford to wait it out. In EDH its a terrible waste of resources.
I somewhat agree with you about mystic remora. I do think people play fish badly in casual by playing it out on turn 1 thinking they are gonna draw a ton of cards. I think if you play fish in casual, you need to drop it turn 4/5 to fill out your curve and get incidental draw from people playing removal, enchantments, or even midgame mana rocks. So, while I agree fish can be really bad in casual, I disagree that it should be avoided altogether because players should be considering when they play it.
Mt friend, get better audio. If your microphone is bad, put your phone on your desk in front of you on the table, start recording. If it has echo or noise, run it through Adobe enhance or adobe podcast for free, then take it to your editing software and slap that audio in.
Is it that bad? What's so bad about it? I intend on getting a better microphone once I'm monetized and can afford to but I didn't think it was horrible
I have a sad and incurable disease where I read every funny and meaningful description I see
I must apologize for the severe trauma I'm inflicting upon your poor soul. Such a condition must be agonizing when encountered with my heartfelt descriptions
wow i dont think ive ever seen such a funny and meaningful description
You really did a good job on the slides that I imagined.
Thank you, that slide took me years to finish
It's funny having decks with lots of big draw so they can run all the 2-drop rocks. To the slower decks that wants the +2 mana rocks and ramp like Worn Powerstone exactly for compactness. Also agree with the value in lands. IT's nice to have the digging lands, but even having a few of the mana filtering Surveil lands like Conduit Pylons to smooth out my game whenever they show up.
They have genuinely won me entire games by just allowing me to turn my excess mana into cards. Its basically all I do with my Thantis deck and it works really well
Read the description gang checking in
Read the description gang coming back from the dead after last time 👋
The description below the video really brought all the ideas together after the video, I definitely recommend everyone give it a look after they finish the video.
2:30 The slide here really brings home your point
I spent a lot of time on it
I agree with everything you said here. I would only add that the quality of your card draw matters. Recurring card draw such as Rhystic Study, Phyrexian Arena, Consicrated Sphinx, and The One Ring orcards that immediately refill your hand like wheels do way more to keep you in the game then a generic creature or sorcery that only draws you one or two cards.
Also, be careful with X spells. Nothing hurts like spending +10 mana on a spell only to have it countered for two (or less) blue mana.
Agreed. My main point in the value proposition was that whatever you decide to spend your mana on needs to be worth it. It can be low to the ground like ghostly pilferer, accruing card advantage incrimentally, or it can be something bigger and splashier like hansk, elder brain, or hyldas crown of winter. As far as the X spell thing I agree it would suck if it got countered but unfortunately it feels like the "dies to removal" argument where its not exactly a reason to not run something since everything fits that criteria. It may be a much bigger lightning rod for that thing which is more of a valid argument but even still, if you're in an endgame grindfest its a meaningful game action that may make or break your game
@ToggoRock I think that we are basically on the same page. My point is less of a dies to removal argument than what you called a "lightning rod" where spending 10, 15, 20 mana on an X spell only to have it countered is a huge tempo loss. Be sure to back it up with counterspells, have something in play to prevent it from being countered, or you might just be better off with a 3 to 6 mana option listed above.
I see X spells as being less versatile and more situational. I'm happy to run them in decks where they are protected (Taigam, Hall of Gemstone, Grand Abolisher, Teferi), you have value synergies to offset the cost (Hinata, Gargos, Zaxara), or are just so efficient that they can win the game on the spot (Torment of Hailfire, Exsanguinate). Otherwise, I stick to more low to the ground options like the ones in my original post.
Agreed. I think that however tempo loss isn't really a considerable enough factor in a grindfest to consider not casting it. The issue is that no one is doing anything impactful so there's no tempo to begin with thus making there very little cost to actually try and throw it out there. I'd agree that X spells can be very situational to actually slot into a deck but I think something like expansion//explosion is a good example of something that slots in well because it helps early and can also potentially give you a lead in the endgame. But yes I'd agree, it seems like we'd basically on the same page and just arguing semantics lol
There’s been a bit of a trend the past year or so of every MTG content creator basically saying ‘Run more X’ for everything you can think of, so I’m glad you’ve actually discussed opportunity cost and utility density. If the average player were to build a deck the way TH-cam tells them now it would be 42 lands 12-24 sources of ramp, and everything else should be a removal spell, board wipe, or hatebear/hoser that all needs card draw stapled on. The part of the deck where *your* deck idea goes is the command zone, that’s it.
Playing a little slower with more impactful cards is much more the point of Commander. Your Timeless Witness vs Eternal Witness helps crystallise that idea succinctly. If you’re a super low to the ground deck then eWit is great, but in basically everything else where you’re more midrange, the added value of reusing tWit massively outweighs the extra mana.
Thank you kindly. I've found the same thing to be true where people say "run more x" but now how to run more of anything. Thats why I try to find ways for people to have an easier time slotting things in and properly consider the impact of not doing so
To Add some more nuance to Eternal Witness/ Timeless Witness:
sure is a bit better with its eternalize on its own but with cards like Court of Arvendale /Sun Titan type cards. they become a 2 card recursion engine.
I run Eternal Witness in a precon level recursion deck that tries to get ahead on activated abilities while it staxes the table with one spell per turn hatebears as well as rug of Smothering.
I think for most decks the one mana doesnt make too much of a diffence since u never want to play this on curve, but its cost *does* in fact matter
That's fair. Its a niche synergy that would incentivize you to play ewit over timewit but in most cases I think timewit provides more value when it doesnt have niche synergies. I'd say we're basically on the same page lol
Less "card advantage" but some late game value are man lands. Most are monetarily cheap (lets ignore the colorless trio) and the recent ones in woe and lci have attack triggers too. Theyre mostly tapped duals which imo are better the temples in around 85% of scenarios, but are a mana sink later when you have nothing else to do. Besides, whats 2 tapped duals going to do to your 30 basic land stack?
Ive personally been challenging any 2-3 color deck i make to play at least 1 manland and get some value out of it.
Fair enough. My favorite one of these is actually Crawling Barrens. It allows you to sink all your mana into it turn after turn to grow it more and more and make it a true threat and the counters stick around
These are videos on good topics that are pretty well thought out, and I think a way to further clean them up would be getting some editing software to cut out the dead air and mispronounciations- those happen to everyone! It'll just help it be better polished. A couple extra dry runs of reading your script may also be useful. Keep it up, looking forward to what you do and I've subscribed
Thank you. Unfortunately until I'm monitized I can't really afford to spend money on any kind of software. I'm hoping that once I reach the proper watchtime and get monitized I can get an editor, it'll allow me to reduce the friction I have with making the videos and post more often. But yeah I probably do need to inspect my script more before I record. I didnt notice the mess ups until post and by that time it was too late
Honestly thought you named your channel after tapping an artifact to politic with others.
Excellent edited slide. That alone is reason to subscribe
Thank you, it took me years to finish that slide. Many restless nights
8:29 negative space in a picture can be a tool too
Thats true. Just thought it might be funny to throw in lol
Alr who tf made a perfect generic copy of salubrious snail
Like you have the same voice it's uncanny 😳
Y'all mustve been from the same mitosis
Quite meaningful and funny of you
Genuinely he's my main inspiration for making my own channel since we share SOO many deck building philosophies and I saw 3/3 elks rapid success so I decided to throw my hat into the ring. I felt like theres a lot more to talk about though like removal engines, value proposition, mana curve, etc. So I felt like if I wanted to see more of it, I needed to be that change
@ToggoRock you're doin good, keep it up 💯
Thank you kindly
I think I’m missing something. How does Street Wraith cost 0 mana?
To cycle it. I've seen people running streeth wraith, urza's bauble etc. And yes while they cycke effectively making your deck 1 card thinner, thats not exactly a good thing
Are you a Toggo Kamahl enjoyer?
Toggo/Ishai is actually my favorite. Also liking Toggo/Armix
What i do is look at a card and say perhaps its good but is this card living its best life in my deck. Is it better in another deck? Sometimes if the answer is yes i'll cut it. Like Esper Sentinel. A superb card in +1/+1 counter decks. In my deck it's easy to play around and dies to everything. If my deck was CEDH and everyone is racing to finish 1st, then I'd definitely run it. Same with rhystic study. In CEDH Rhystic Study gets out of hand real easy. In my deck it draws me a bunch of ticked off opponents opting for player removal. Another card people should stop playing in casual commander is Mystic Remora. It's a house in CEDH where people can't afford to wait it out. In EDH its a terrible waste of resources.
I somewhat agree with you about mystic remora. I do think people play fish badly in casual by playing it out on turn 1 thinking they are gonna draw a ton of cards. I think if you play fish in casual, you need to drop it turn 4/5 to fill out your curve and get incidental draw from people playing removal, enchantments, or even midgame mana rocks. So, while I agree fish can be really bad in casual, I disagree that it should be avoided altogether because players should be considering when they play it.
yo good stuff on that slide
Thank you kind sir. It only took me a few years to finish that slide. Many restless nights
Mt friend, get better audio. If your microphone is bad, put your phone on your desk in front of you on the table, start recording. If it has echo or noise, run it through Adobe enhance or adobe podcast for free, then take it to your editing software and slap that audio in.
Is it that bad? What's so bad about it? I intend on getting a better microphone once I'm monetized and can afford to but I didn't think it was horrible
Good vid!
Thank you! It means a lot
you have way too few subscribers
My channels only a month old. I'm hoping to scale it up over time, just takes time and effort