Zenith is pretty loved by entusiasts in Balkan region - it's still niche. People who buy Zenith aren't trying to impress others; they're making a statement for themselves, reflecting their individuality and personal taste. It's like you said, "if you know, you know, but with - I'm not here to impress you, I know better." The charm lies in the fact that Zenith doesn't rely on marketing, making it a watch for those who shy away from mainstream choices. It's like choosing a Lexus over a German premium car-not for the badge, but for the understated quality. If I saw someone wearing a Zenith, they'd immediately earn more respect from me than someone with a Rolex. I'd probably even go out of my way to compliment them on their choice, something I wouldn't feel the urge to do for a Rolex. But, if I had to choose a gift - between a Rolex Daytona and a Zenith El Primero, it would definitely be a heart-versus-head battle, and I would probably say, just give me that overpriced Speedmaster, and spare me! Tudor is an interesting case too-it's hugely popular within watch enthusiast circles, but outside of that, the average person doesn't recognize it as much. So they have some interesting case for watch lovers:)
Five in my case going back to El Primero Rainbow in the 90s, though only own at the moment I only own the Pilot Type 20 bronze (replaced Chronometro Tipo CP2 bronze flyback which wore too small). The new pilot range are e en smaller though, too small to be worth bothering about. Tried one at Heathrow, stupid tiddly little things, like those mini-Tudors that have become inexplicably popular.
@@tomk8729 I like the sculptural quality of the new Pilot case. Most people don't like that though. I'm glad smaller sizes exist for people with smaller wrists, but people push smaller watches onto normal wristed people, and I can't help but feel like it's for the sake of taking and posting wrist shot photos, where watch cases appear larger than they wear.
Sadly I think you’re right. Both JLC and Zenith are in very similar positions: Owned by two large conglomerates (Richmont and LVMH) that sit in the mid-tier of their luxury offerings, despite some very complicated watches being offered. They make profit (probably not that much) but they do, so they’re in this middle child comfort zone of putting out nothing special but nothing too boring. They don’t take risks because they’re not in a position of financial comfort or desperation. So long as they stay in that zone, I don’t think anything meaningful will happen.
Wow, I couldn’t agree more with you! It’s a shame that these brands are financially independent along with many others. The competitiveness and innovation is muted without it.
As a watch lifelong watch nerd who usually buys Rolex sport watches, Omegas and IWC, I bought an El Primero chronograph since I got tired of waiting for my AD to get me a new Daytona. Loved it - until it broke in the 3rd week. The 6:00 sub dial would just run on its own without being activated, usually around once a day. After researching the problem I found it was a documented issue, so I returned it for a refund. Bummer. Glad I’m still on the Daytona wait list……
If you think the typical new buyer knows that JLC supplied the movements for AP, PP back some 30 years ago, you’re too high on your own watch knowledge
My gf works at a credit card company, and she knows the holy trinity because she’s seen many people using their credit card debt to buy those watches and end up not being able to pay it😂
I recently picked up a Chronomaster Original, and I’m loving it. Mine is the salmon dialed Hodinkee edition, and it’s really beautiful to look at. You’re right that the bracelet isn’t as good as Rolex, but it’s still pretty good, and comfortable to wear. I tend to wear my watches a little loose, so the lack of on the fly adjustment isn’t a deal breaker for me. I’d looked at Zenith watches from afar for a long time, and liked a lot of their models. I guess, like a lot of people, I tended to gravitate to other brands, eg Rolex and Omega, but I think buying an IWC not too long ago made me more receptive to other brands. I’m currently glad I made the choice to get a Zenith.
What to say? I bought a Zenith Chronometer Revival (37 mm) with the "Espresso" dial and it is hands down the prettiest watch in my bloated collection. Fortunately I was able to get it at a significant discount, less than half the price of the cheapest Rolex. In an era where micro brands are selling $2,000 watches, buying a Zenith for $4,500 seems like a deal. At least in the brain damaged world of watch collecting. P.S. - here in the real world (the one where you don't pay list and you don't want to wait two years for a Rolex AD's call) the Chronometer Sport is MUCH cheaper than the Daytona.
I think this comment summarizes the core of the Zenith problem well. People don’t buy it unless there is a huge discount. Suppose there are two options at an AD - 1) you can buy a Panda Daytona or 2) Chronomaster at $2,000. I bet 99% including watch enthusiasts would choose 1).
Real winner here is a Seiko,6139 caliber with disc spring vertical clutch later became a staple for all chronos like Piguet,JLC,Omega,Tag Heuer,Breitling and manny others.Seiko vertical clutch is today a standard while Zenith El primero no one use beside Rolex.
As a Tokyo based watch dealer I sell and source plenty of Zenith watches they certainly aren't difficult to sell and are excellent value as you mentioned.
Japanese consumers generally have better taste and a much wider depth of interest than Anglos, who are only interested in Rolax and RO (or moon Speedmasters)
I’ve not sold any of my watches, but I’m currently trying to move my Zenith Chronomaster Sport on. At first, I loved it. Then, I bought the Omega 3861 Speedmaster. When sat beside the Omega, I noticed that, for me, the Zenith’s quirks become irritations. Specifically, the fact that I can’t read the 60 minute subcounter (the hashmarks are too bunched up and the hand too thick), the low quality bracelet and the 4:30 date aperture. While many would say that the Chronomaster Sport is the better watch on paper, in real life I find that it doesn’t put up a meaningful fight against the Speedmaster. It’s time for it to be welcomed into a new, more appreciative home.
I will humbly sacrifice myself and am open to recieve your Zenith, and as a sign of generosity, you don't even have to pay me anything for releasing you of your burden.
When I saw the chronomaster sport I thought wow. I then bought the green dial aaron rogers chronomaster sport limited edition and I just love the detail, look and quality of the watch. For selfish reasons I hope they never get to popular as it is so nice to wear my zenith and not have everyone else wearing the same watch and the low risk of getting mugged is an added bonus! Love the content Brit, please keep it up.
I definitely don't mind Zenith having low output and awareness. I'd at least like it to remain that way long enough to get another or two! As soon as they make a push, I could easily see them being unapproachable, like what happened with JLC.
Agree with you Brit, it’s a marketing problem. I own 3 Zeniths, clearly I love their watches for their heritage, gorgeous dials and technical prowess. But that’s what they’ve been solely relying upon. Their boutiques deliver a mediocre experience, their ambassadors are unremarkable and their ads could get lost amongst the brands priced two tiers below them. Such a shame, there’s so much potential.
@@profanchorman1003 I don't think it's just a marketing problem. Zenith has been resting on its laurels for far too long. They need something to shake up the watch industry. Something to make the enthusiasts and the "average" consumer pay attention. Do aspirational marketing right. Come out with an affordable brand, and market it in such a way as to get consumers to see Zenith as an aspirational brand, "but in the meantime there's (insert affordable brand name here.)".
I entirely agree. I made my first luxury watch purchase this year as part of my 25th anniversary for a Swiss owned company in America, they put in a small amoutn and I put in much more for a El Primero Chronomaster Open with the 3604 movement. I know of Zenith because of my direct contact with many of the comapnies making their parts in Switzerland whom I have visited for decades. The brand could be so much better represented. At the same time when someone who really knows watches spots your Zenith it is like a secret handshake.
Thank you for your personal take on the Zenith brand. As an avid collector, Zenith takes up 5 spots in my current collection. I was always attracted to the fact that it wasn’t a mainstream brand (even though I have some of those as well). I love their history and their story. Most of all I like their designs and their movements. I also like the fact that with the Chronomaster sport they weren’t afraid to take a direct shot at Rolex. Someone has to. Ultimately it comes down to personal preference. If you do a little research, a newer buyer will see that there is much more out there than Rolex and Omega. As we all know, the you can get lost in what’s out there to chose from. Completely agree about their limited marketing. Zenith attached themselves to New York Jets QB Aaron Rogers a year or so ago. He’s a bit of a flake and not going to do much to advance the brand. Keep the content coming.
Great points all round. But here’s the thing, many of the things here you flag as ‘negatives’ are actually the reasons I bought my Zenith (Chronomaster Sport). I think once you’ve gone through the nonsense of the hype pieces and further into your watch collecting journey, that’s when brands like Zenith and JLC start to appeal, and that’s the area of the market they currently service. I LOVE that no one knows what it is (unless they are watch people) , I love that when people see it on my wrist they don’t go ‘oh you’ve got a Rolex’. I love that the first question I get asked isn’t ’did you buy it at retail’. It’s one for the enthusiasts and not the show offs IMO. The points on marketing are spot on though, they are in danger of becoming obsolete if they only appeal to enthusiasts, a more mass market appeal is needed. Great vid as usual.
Yes, this is a correct assessment of Zenith issues. The marketing is confusing at best but the products are great. I fell in love with a Zenith elite in platinum back in the late 1995. It was 36-37mm, Silver guilloche with applied markers and a black crocodile strap. I loved it. Back in the day my father already owned a Rolex Daytona, with the Zenith movement. Like most, I learnt about Zenith through their Rolex connections but, when I visited a Zenith authorized dealer in Paris, I fell in love with the brand: very understated but with beautiful pieces. Zenith is now part of the LVMH group and they seem to spend the right amount of time and money to develop the brand image. The problem is that you have many other brands with lots of money because they are part of large conglomerates. You have not only LVMH but also Richmond and the Swatch Group. And then there is always the usual suspect:” Rolex.” Anyway, loved the video.
I own 2 Neo vintage Zenith El Primero chronograph watches, they are fantastic. The problem with Zenith is they do very little to no marketing…..😊❤😊 When I see somebody wearing a Zenith I think ok this is somebody deep into watches and understands quality
Rolex spend more on marketing that all the other major brand put together. if you ask a man in the street to name Luxury watch brands they will always name Rolex. Meaning you can say to him 1) Advertising works and 2) It works on YOU
Hi Britt, really enjoyed the review and sadly agree with your views about Zenith. However, I am lucky enough to have enjoyed a late 1960's Zenith Defy for many years, and I adore wearing it, so to experience the brand with a Zenith watch ownership, in my opinion, is thoroughly worth while.
I've always wanted to know why Zenith does not have the popularity. In my country we have this very famous hotel (think infinity pool) with a large shopping mall that houses all the luxury brands. There is also a so-called watch street where all the Swiss watch brands are at. For some reason the only brands that have the crowd are Swatch, Tissot, Tag Heuer, AP, PP and of course Rolex. Zenith is in the middle of this "watch street" and for some reason there is forever no one inside which is a bit odd.
You're spot on about the marketing, but I have to disagree on everything else. First off, thanks for the video! And I appreciate you bringing this topic up for discussion! Here’s how I see it: 1) Zenith’s branding efforts are weak-I’m with you on that. 2) Are Zenith watches expensive? Absolutely, they’re quite pricey. But comparing the Chronomaster to the Daytona isn’t fair. You can’t buy a Daytona at retail price. Realistically, you can get a Zenith Defy Extreme for $20k, which is a solid alternative to a Daytona that would actually cost you $30k. 3) Bad bracelets? Zenith's latest models come with a quick-change strap system, and they include three different options in the box. 4) As for the "curse" of being a movement supplier, I’d actually argue the opposite. The fact that they created the original movement for the Daytona adds some extra flex points for Zenith. :)
Hoping it stays that way. I don't want mouth-breathing investor window-lickers anywhere near Zenith. Stay away, and just keep trading your base-model Rolex Oyster and Royal Piguet Audemars Oaks amongst yourselves.
You nailed it, Britt. I love a lot about Zenith, but their bracelets (and my AD rep even said as much) are not up to where they should be for the price point. I think their new Defy Extreme diver is very cool and love all the straps that come included, but the price is more than a Sub (granted, much easier to buy). The secondary prices on many Zeniths encourage buying grey market or pre-owned. Their Defy is quite nice, but I put it on directly after a Grand Seiko and the finishing is no comparison in favor of the GS. The GS was $3K less...
I don't know why they aren't more popular, but I do know that the best looking skeleton on the market is theirs with the Defy Skyline. 🤩 Okay, didn't realise they were that expensive, then their high prices.
Zenith - (LVMH), like the Swatch Group & the Richemont Group, have priced themselves out of the market. And who needs a 1/10th second timer? Tudor, Tissot, TAG Heuer chronographs have caught up quality and price wise.
Who needs a tachymeter? Who needs a "moon watch"? You don't have to be timing stuff to 1/10th of a second to appreciate a hi-beat mechanical movement, and a hi-beat movement on it's own goes largely unappreciated. It's a complication that showcases the brand's abilities and history in a functional way. It's just a chronograph with a distinction.
well who needs a chronograph or even a watch anyway since you have your smartphone? Today nobody uses the specs of a mechanical watch but that doesn’t mean you’re not intrested and amazed by those specs. Actually I am a guy who will chose the 1/10th over a « simple » dayto or speed because I feel I have something more and something to talk about your watch…
When I hear “Zenith” my first reaction is “TV sets.” This name used to be a major TV brand in the US and I’m old enough to remember. I think Zenith’s problem is entirely brand name recognition. Almost everyone recognizes the name, but few know they make watches and fewer still know they make high end watches and even fewer know that Zenith makes movements for other brands. Personally, I like Zenith but they are pricey and I haven’t really seen a model that speaks to me. Plus, it’s a crowded market for a rather limited clientele. I would like to see Zenith do better in the market, but I can’t really help there. I have my one high end watch, an Omega Constellation 41 in Blue with a bespoke blue alligator strap. (I like customizing my watches.😎) But it really makes no sense for me to buy another luxury watch. Great video! I like your take on this. 😎🍸
I want and will own a Zenith El Primero at some point, but I need to stop buying other brands first. For the price point I find some others more compelling, but the El Primero is a must own to me.
Zenith's issue is that it is stuck between being a collector brand and a mass market brand. They need to make a choice, be the best $10k niche brand, or go after Rolex and GS. There is no reason why there shouldn't be the Four Horsemen of Watches: Rolex, Grand Seiko, JLC, and Zenith, to complement the Holy Trinity: Patek, Vacheron, and AP.
with JLC moving beyond that 10k point, I think Zenith should try to hover around that for the time being. Not too much further and it's going to be up against JLC (again), Blancpain, and Glashutte.
Saturday is watch change day. I'm currently watching this while wearing my El Primero Chronomaster 38 from 2017. Good video, Britt. I agree. In Australia they did do a celebrity endorsement with Lance (Buddy) Franklin - an Australian football champion. They made two Defies, gave one to Buddy and auctioned the other one. They need to do a lot more than that.
Zenith are the only modern (luxury) watches I own. Two, Defy classic ceramic in black and blue. All my other watches are petite yellow/white gold vintage.
Brava Britt for having ask and spread the questions on this glorious brand! I agree on what you say on more intelligent marketing and lower prices for a certain improvement. Personally I've got two (one is a Zenith Movado) and I like this brand with the star . I actually dream owning an Espada one day😊.
I actually agree with you 100%. It’s a very underrated brand. Last week I just brought a zenith el primero triple calendar moonohase. My first zenith and I’m loving it. You should look at it.
Personally I think Zenith should come out with a more average consumer friendly line of watches because that would certainly help increase their popularity.
Wouldn't that take away from the prestige, allure and also drive some customers away, especially the ones who have paid over 6 to 10,000 on a watch? That is like asking Rolex to make a consumer grade watch. Citizen watches does this very same thing you are suggesting. However the difference is Citizen doesn't have prices in the 6 to 10,000 price range.
@@Needro13 well let's put this into perspective. In 2021 Zenith (that's all I could find.) made a little over $131 million. In 2023 Rolex made $10.1 billion. Comparatively the hit to Zenith's prestige would be minimal, and could be course-corrected once they gain popularity. To put that into even sharper relief, assuming Zenith made the same amount in 2023, they were 710.67 Million dollars short. Maybe they create an alternate brand that is still manufactured by the same people, but under a different name.
I would say the latter suggestion of making another brand with of course a totally different name. That could bring in some revenue. I do think Zenith needs to step up their marketing game as well.
You are spot on with the wearing experience. And ironically, more lesser luxurious brands like tissot, citizen, etc. discovered this waaaay before zenith and others with their nice integrated bracelets.
Compared with many Longines references selling at one-third or one-half the price of similarly styled Zenith references, there is just nothing compelling in their line-up. Even watch geeks need a reason to part with $6,000 - $11,000.
Actually stood in a store in Las Vegas that sold Zeniths. Nice watches. Looked at prices, took a deep breath. Wondered how much better it is than Longines. And realized I could get three Longines for the price of one Zenith. So I walked out, bought a nice Longines online, and then spent the saved $4500 on a very nice vacation.
@@IV9000 Longines and Tudor both offer a very high level of quality and style variety in their lineups, just tons of great alternatives even to the Crown.
@@IV9000nice watch. But it's only an ETA movement, and the machine-only finish is not near Zenith. It's also a brand with massive, massive economies of scale that Zenith at 15,000 watches a year only dream of. You certainly didn't get a Zenith for your four grand.
@@SampleTracks2224 I get it. But the Zenith price put it up there with some of the lower priced Rolexes (that hold or increase their resale in the event I’d want to sell). Not saying Zenith isn’t a great watch, it’s just that price for something with very little cache compared to Rolex or Omega - and being quite a bit more than say the Aqua Terra, I just couldn’t make it make sense.
Picked up a AMZWATCH's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
You can buy El Primero from 90's for around 2-3000$ that literally has the same mechanism inside like the new ones. They only added silicone part there in new ones for antimagnetic purposes. Lots of Zenith enthusiasts buy that instead
Fortunate to own a Chronomaster Sport (white face) as well as a few Rolexes and I totally agree with you on the bracelet. I switched out the bracelet to a white rubber strap (Zealande) and have not put the bracelet back on. The white rubber strap does draw a bit of attention (bunch of us watch geeks at work) but I wear it often. In addition, the see-through case back allows visualization of the beautiful mechanics of the movement, which is one of the most beautiful at this price point (IMHO). Love your style and delivery, Britt.
Very similar to my experience... I was originally drawn to the Chronomaster Original but didn't love how the lugs seemed to hover in air on the wrist, and my mind moved to the Chronomaster Sport (white dial). It wears amazingly well on my wrist, but I can not stand the bracelet and lack of on the fly adjustments. I put it on the navy blue Zealande rubber strap, and it's a match made in heaven. In contrast, I have the blue dial Yachmaster and put that on a white Zealande rubber strap, and the two watches are like yin and yang in my collection now.
Four key reasons why the public isn't interested: 1) No brand prestige or positive associations with film, celebrities, etc amongst most of the public. No one outside the watch community has even heard of the brand. Until Benedict Cumberbatch or (insert global celebrity) starts wearing one in films or they have some famous collaboration people aren't going to take a look. 2) A one hit wonder for many people. They produced one amazing movement/watch and that's it. People have a wide range of tastes. If you aren't into chronographs why bother. 3) Sharing a name with a famously awful electronics/TV manufacturer doesn't help. It sounds like a dated American brand. 4) Resale value. People can forgive crappy resale if the brand has some prestige or cool factor. Zenith has neither. You may not agree but it's the truth. They would need a full overhaul to salvage the brand. New movement, new designs, focus on wider market and major marketing initiatives.
To me, the bracelet's experience is always perceivable on the wrist and (to me) is more important than the mouvement which I know nothing of. I'm an old computer guy, and if I care about the ~3 kilohertz oscillation of a mechnical watch I'd go for the ~2 gigahertz oscillation of a smart watch. Again, to me, mechnical watch is about fashion accessory and touch feeling which is important and missing in a screen-based world, but the tech inside a mechanical watch is rather rudimentary. This is a great topic Britt, keep them coming please!
I recently purchased a Chronomaster Orignal black/tri-color and LOVE the watch. The finish all around and looking at the El Primero! I line up with much of what you were saying. Almost never saw one in person and associated them as a movement maker. After going to a boutique and seeing them in person a much different opinion. I completely agree with their metal bracelet and strap finishing. That just isn't up to par with the rest of the competition. I really hope they are able to up their marketing, a brand that is very slept on and deserves more attention. Great video, lets hope they reach out 😊
@Timmicillo the price of watches here is a lot cheaper than say Australia. I often get my brother to check out certain models back home and send me the price and I compare to here and do the conversion and it's significantly cheaper. Also Japan gets models in a lot of brands that are Japan exclusive only. Like certain colors and dials. Another reason is that normally, Seiko, Casio and other traditional Japanese brands were worn here and were the brands of choice for significant life events and gifts. Now you compare a Zenith El Primero to say a Grand seiko and I can guarantee that most young Japanese will choose the Zenith simply for the fact that it looks cool and that it doesn't look like their dad's and grandfather's watch.
This video is one of my favorites. I appreciate your analysis. It’s a topic that could be expanded upon. Creativity and innovation are in opposition to ownership and control.
You’re not well informed for a watch channel! Zenith set a company record last year with profitability and sales. So, I guess people ARE buying Zenith but that wouldn’t get a lot of views for your channel so you go negative instead.
For a hi-beat in-house movement, Zenith is still relatively affordable to service. And something like an El Primero 400 has decades of tried and true history to it, unlike a lot of pop up in-house movements that can experience growing pains and elevated service pricing.
@@EdwardViaTomato my El Primero was serviced about 10 years ago by an octogenarian master watchmaker for £55. Lucky me , he was retiring and this was a sort of end of an era gift. Still very accurate but the next bill will be larger .
My Zenith chronomaster sport is absolutely fantastic. The movement is best in class. The bracelet wears so comfortably. It is light on the wrist. Zero complaints. They are expensive because they are elite in quality. I have a Date just 41 and a Glasshutte Senator and love them all.
What's really funny about this comment. Is if it wasn't for Rolex? Zenith would have disappeared years ago. Since Rolex used the Zenith El primero movement. It helped save Zenith from certain death. So you should be thanking Rolex. You guys think that your some highfaultin watch enthusiast but you don't know anything. The story is online go learn something
@@lonewolfemcquade8133 lol don’t get your panties in a bunch. I love Rolex as much as the next guy, but I love myself more and if Im going to spend $10k plus I would like some exclusivity and not be just one more in the room thats all.
I considered a pre-owned Zenith Chronomaster Sport but the lack of a 12-hour timer register was the deal killer. The price was right at $5,700 in mint condition with box and papers. I decided to stick with my Omega Speedmaster Professional for the 12 hour timer, but seem to wear my Bulova Lunar Pilot as my daily. I have a turbocharged SAAB 9-5, and I use the chrono for turbo timer shutdown. I use the Speedmaster 12-hour register to time parking meters.
@@kurtklimisch7498 I do Kurt, especially $65 fine Manhattan parking meters. But I get your point. I do have to say that when maneuvering around a much more dangerous Manhattan, I've been wearing my Casio DW5600E-1V with its great timer. And most of the time I'm content with my Bulova Lunar Pilot and its 1-hour register.
@@kbarnbrook4993 How do you determine how accurate the watch is?Do you have the watch, and have you ever made a video about it? What makes you confident that without a valid certificate to prove they tested and tried the watch, it is accurate?i can say i am a doctor i can do operation for u what make u think i need a certificate for it
I have a zenith defy extreme. Absolutely love it. Although I will say I never spent even close to the retail price. RRP was £21k and I got mine for £12.5k for an AD as well. I never would have spent the full price
Britt, the Daytona is £3000 more expensive than the chronomaster that’s 31% more expensive, how on earth is that a similar price?, that’s before you even factor in the AD discount that you could no doubt negotiate with Zenith, poor comparison here…..
The point with Daytona is simply that it is a gorgeous watch with a perfect case, a great movement and a luxury taste that few other Watches transmit. 30% more is not a huge difference when you compare the perfect watch to a very good one…like a Zenith Chronomaster Original…that I own btw
I am the owner of a Zenith El Primero Triple Calender - Moonphase. I love this brand and its incredible story ! If I have a little money, the next one will be the Zenith DEFY Revival A3648. Greetings
I tried a Defy Chronograph in titanium and 1/100th second markers and it’s my next target. Problem is it’s $18.6k at the shop. I am much more inclined to get it from Jomashop for $12.7k. Very awesome watch for sure.
You'd be surprised how long a company can last without selling all that much merchandise especially if they supply very important components for other people's products. They definitely have a marketing issue.
The problem off all those brands that they became parts of bigger conglomerates that are big enough to absorb the cost and sometimes losses from their subsidiaries and in this case of Zenith they are part of LVMH , also being part of a big group makes you dependent on its investment priorities and currently LVMH are pushing Tag Heuer and their flagship Louis vetton watch brand.
Especially if the product they sell is this expensive. They sell quality watches, but like any high-end watch the brand the markup is insane. Easy to keep your company afloat with a business model like that.
For me, Zenith is like a Tag Heuer and Breitling - on the wrist the feel and aesthetics of a Zenith watch does not spark the joy or feeling of quality of Rolex, Omega, or Grand Seiko. As a result Zenith, Tag, and Breitling seem way too expensive. I'd much rather buy a Omega or a Grand Seiko - heck even a Tudor or Longines. But, that is just my buying preferences - for others the complete opposite may be true.
the spark of joy is all very subjective. You've conditioned yourself to love certain brands because they have your peers' approval. The spark of joy from owning a Rolex, I'd say for most, is based on the social status and public recognition this piece is giving them.
@@Tourtiere34 My peers and professional co-workers could care less - if I was conditioned by my peers I would have an Apple Watch or only Rolex. I like what I like, and buy everything from Steeldive and Vostok to Omega and Grand Seiko. I collect and wear watches for myself alone. So weird people want to contest another person's personal preferences.
@@salty5402 and yet the spark of joy you're experiencing happens to be very randomly happening on three of the most known and recognized watch brands most collectors can afford.
@@Tourtiere34 They are the peers to Zenith, this why I used them as examples along with Longines and Tudor - would saying Tissot, Orient, Vostok, Steeldive, Fredrique Constant, Nomos, Citizen, and Seiko proven something - because I own all of those too, because, get this, they spark joy.
You forgot one thing… they making only 30 000 watches per year. Even here in Switzerland, over 95% of people have no idea what Zenith is… Just found a physical shop that sells this brand it's a challenge here. If I spend so much money for watch, I go for a brand that the majority of people know… for the bling bling effect 😊
Britt, spot on! All accounts! The ElPrimero is the last step in my collection and I just can’t bring myself to buy one. I don’t think they have innovated or improved over years but I love their involvement and history. I wish they’d go rogue again and rewrite some history.
There isn't a Zenith problem, there is a stupidity problem of people buying into all the marketing BS. A watch being aspirational, give me a break. There's a lot in life to aspire to but to own a particular watch because it's popular, I'll pass.
Oof! Truth bomb. The problem is with the people, not the product Zenith is putting out. Also, this video is silly. Zenith is making about $100m a year in sales and their sales are significantly increasing year over year. The brand is nowhere near struggling so idk what she’s getting at… Zenith is very alive. Enthusiasts get it, and even people who just want something nice understand when they have one of these in their hands. Comparing it to a popular brand like Rolex or Cartier, even an uninformed shopper can see why you’d spend thousands on this piece of jewelry.
This isnt marketing bs. Aspirational watches arent supposed to be the most popular watches, theyre supposed to be the watch that in an earlier period fo your life would be an irresponsible purchase. The aspiration is that you can afford luxury, so youd need to buy a matching level of luxury which zenith doesnt provide to the non-watch guys. Top tier luxury doesnt need to be recognisable but regular tier luxury absolutely does for the purpose of being a symbol of your financial accomplishments; a symbol doesnt work when noone recognises it
@@lamentate07 same amount of cars Ferrari sold last year 🙄 profit margin profit margin profit margin. Number of sales isn’t a measure of success. Company could sell/produce one unit and make millions in profit. Depends on what the unit is. Either way, number of sales doesn’t indicate Zenith is taking loses.
Great comparison to JLC, Britt. So true. The Master Ultra Thin is my favorite dress watch. JLC improved that caliber over the ones they supplied to AP and VC and still used it as late as the 90s and 2000s. LVMH keeps Zenith sandwiched between Heuer and Hublot. I love my Shadow but I would like Zenith to retool the El Primero the way Rolex did and offer a vertical clutch.
Thanks for an interesting discussion on Zenith watches. It's Zenith or any other brand, if you like it, if it speaks with you and if you can afford it then it is the watch for you. I bought my first Zenith watch for the same reasons. It was mesmerizing with amazing specs and movement and, it clicked with me. It is Zenith Captain Winsor El Primero annual calendar watch. To my knowledge, it is the only annual calendar watch with a hi-beat movement. I love it and enjoy it.
I love, love my Zenith Elite Ultra Thin, a fabulous timepiece as good as any in my modest collection. The leather strap is fantastic although I do wish they did a deployment option. Great brand and stands up to anything else equivalent in price IMHO. Great video as ever, thank you!
1.Zenith watches are not easy to service and very expensive 2.They price similarly to Hublot and operate as a second hublot. Their pieces are generally identical to Hublot look plasticky. 3.poor marketing my AS* the real reason are their poor price point for sure that is the real reason same as panerai hublot so expensive but get nothing special
@@vibr0314 I said movement. Pay attention. Do you know the meaning of the words El Primero? First. The best. It was used by Rolex in the Daytona until around 2000. Stop displaying your complete ignorance.
@@grammarboy1318 like i told u who rated them?it was used by Daytona rolex means rolex got the best of it too that was what u type not me...if they are the "El Primero" First .......the best ?where u put Daytona since they had been using it until around 2000 the 2nd best ?..did u ever read ur own comment?
I initially second-guessed myself for replacing my seldom-worn 3861 Speedmaster Hesalite with a Chronomaster Original. The Speedy’s bracelet was super comfortably, but the Zenith’s overall design and size won me over. And the date window is a bonus!
You are completely right...but then if Zenith invests in marketing, watches will be more desirable and probably more scarce and prices will go up and then..... A Zenith is for enthusiasts, not for the common daily watch user...it is like Panerai...which by the way used Rolex calibers at some point in their life...a real Paneristi will never choose a Submariner over his beloved watch. History is there to be cherished by us geeks that like different stuff in our wrists...thanks for your great reviews!
Regarding JLC they test their watches even harder then others. Personally I own a Zenith from 1905 and it still runs perfectly and considering the movement for the El Primero got saved by one of their watchmakers when they were about to scrap everything is even more fascinating
"They cost too much for a watch that no one who will look at my watch has heard of before" can't flex if people don't know what they are looking at haha.
Great video Britt, but I'm surprised that you didn't cover ownership costs. I've been tempted by a Zenith but have been put off after reading tales of sky high servicing charges and less than stellar customer support. I think the retail cost of Zenith is also impacted by other brands in the LVMH group, they won't want to be competing with TAG Heuer who's prices have jumped up massively in the last few years.
I have two, a ceramic Defy Classic and the Aarong Rogers Chrono Sport. I love both and am extremely happy with both of them. The 1/10th of a second is way more useful on a chrono than a tachymeter. And the Defy Classic is an amazing wearing watch, so underrated. I am an enthusiast though, so I get what you’re saying.
I do agree with pretty much all of your points. I do have a black Chronomaster Sport and love it, but I did buy it on the secondary market unworn with box and papers for 30% off. It's an amazing watch, but it was difficult for me to pay msrp when you can buy a practically brand new watch for that big of a discount. It is also odd that they do have big celebrity endorsers like Aaron Rodgers in the NFL, Patrick Mouratoglou in Tennis, and Chis Kirk in the PGA, but I never see them actually leverage those individuals to help push the brand forward. You also never see them in print or digital advertisement anywhere which is insane because being part of the LVMH group it isn't like they don't have the money to advertise....
I am actually debating between Zanith Captain and JLC MC. Leaning towards the JLC for the fact that I have one in my collection and it’s a more “established “ brand but the Zenith really sings to me and on the secondary market, it’s a steal!
I love my Zenith Chronomaster with the amazing El Primero movement. I've owned mine for 2 years now and it has averaged less than 1 second per day time loss over that period. Currently I am losing 0.3 seconds per day. Unreal. Plus, it is such a beautiful watch - it just sparkles.
Zenith is pretty loved by entusiasts in Balkan region - it's still niche. People who buy Zenith aren't trying to impress others; they're making a statement for themselves, reflecting their individuality and personal taste. It's like you said, "if you know, you know, but with - I'm not here to impress you, I know better." The charm lies in the fact that Zenith doesn't rely on marketing, making it a watch for those who shy away from mainstream choices. It's like choosing a Lexus over a German premium car-not for the badge, but for the understated quality.
If I saw someone wearing a Zenith, they'd immediately earn more respect from me than someone with a Rolex. I'd probably even go out of my way to compliment them on their choice, something I wouldn't feel the urge to do for a Rolex. But, if I had to choose a gift - between a Rolex Daytona and a Zenith El Primero, it would definitely be a heart-versus-head battle, and I would probably say, just give me that overpriced Speedmaster, and spare me!
Tudor is an interesting case too-it's hugely popular within watch enthusiast circles, but outside of that, the average person doesn't recognize it as much. So they have some interesting case for watch lovers:)
I’m one of those who haven’t bought a single Zenith.
I bought two.
Lol, same. I bought my first and thought "dang, I _really_ like this", and then bought another related model pretty soon after.
Same. I love that there are other multi-Zenith crazies!
Five in my case going back to El Primero Rainbow in the 90s, though only own at the moment I only own the Pilot Type 20 bronze (replaced Chronometro Tipo CP2 bronze flyback which wore too small).
The new pilot range are e en smaller though, too small to be worth bothering about. Tried one at Heathrow, stupid tiddly little things, like those mini-Tudors that have become inexplicably popular.
@@tomk8729 I like the sculptural quality of the new Pilot case. Most people don't like that though.
I'm glad smaller sizes exist for people with smaller wrists, but people push smaller watches onto normal wristed people, and I can't help but feel like it's for the sake of taking and posting wrist shot photos, where watch cases appear larger than they wear.
I have 4:) All are great
I don't Zenith for one reason, I can't afford them. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
u can afford to get other watch brand that give much better movement and exquisite look
I also know this man......I am him😅
I don't "Zenith" either, Zenithing is expensive😂
@@raghdahasan4941😂😂
I never learned how to zenith😔
Sadly I think you’re right. Both JLC and Zenith are in very similar positions:
Owned by two large conglomerates (Richmont and LVMH) that sit in the mid-tier of their luxury offerings, despite some very complicated watches being offered.
They make profit (probably not that much) but they do, so they’re in this middle child comfort zone of putting out nothing special but nothing too boring. They don’t take risks because they’re not in a position of financial comfort or desperation.
So long as they stay in that zone, I don’t think anything meaningful will happen.
Wow, I couldn’t agree more with you! It’s a shame that these brands are financially independent along with many others. The competitiveness and innovation is muted without it.
As a watch lifelong watch nerd who usually buys Rolex sport watches, Omegas and IWC, I bought an El Primero chronograph since I got tired of waiting for my AD to get me a new Daytona. Loved it - until it broke in the 3rd week. The 6:00 sub dial would just run on its own without being activated, usually around once a day. After researching the problem I found it was a documented issue, so I returned it for a refund. Bummer. Glad I’m still on the Daytona wait list……
@@dsdf_fdp1858 if Zenith were to lower its prices, it would quickly find itself competing in the same category as Tudor and Longines.
At least JLC advertises itself like in Dr Strange and other popular culture events. I haven't seen a single meaningful Zenith advert anywhere
How is JLC even mid-tier
If you think the typical new buyer knows that JLC supplied the movements for AP, PP back some 30 years ago, you’re too high on your own watch knowledge
Dont forget that VC also got JLC movements for a loooong time. And that i dont think any of the 3 big ones are still having the geneva seal.
Brilliant
Or Zenith El Primero movements were used by Rolex in their Daytona chronographs until a few years ago.
I doubt the average person has heard of Vacheron Constantine either but no one who wears them is worried about it
My gf works at a credit card company, and she knows the holy trinity because she’s seen many people using their credit card debt to buy those watches and end up not being able to pay it😂
@@L3M0N4D3C4NDY there’s worse things to go into debt for!
@@L3M0N4D3C4NDY lol, that's so ridiculous
222 a dream
@@fabiansuarez523 That's the one (in gold) that I'd sell all of my watches for. Unfortunately, I don't have nearly enough watches ... yet. 😉
I recently picked up a Chronomaster Original, and I’m loving it.
Mine is the salmon dialed Hodinkee edition, and it’s really beautiful to look at.
You’re right that the bracelet isn’t as good as Rolex, but it’s still pretty good, and comfortable to wear. I tend to wear my watches a little loose, so the lack of on the fly adjustment isn’t a deal breaker for me.
I’d looked at Zenith watches from afar for a long time, and liked a lot of their models. I guess, like a lot of people, I tended to gravitate to other brands, eg Rolex and Omega, but I think buying an IWC not too long ago made me more receptive to other brands.
I’m currently glad I made the choice to get a Zenith.
What to say? I bought a Zenith Chronometer Revival (37 mm) with the "Espresso" dial and it is hands down the prettiest watch in my bloated collection. Fortunately I was able to get it at a significant discount, less than half the price of the cheapest Rolex. In an era where micro brands are selling $2,000 watches, buying a Zenith for $4,500 seems like a deal. At least in the brain damaged world of watch collecting. P.S. - here in the real world (the one where you don't pay list and you don't want to wait two years for a Rolex AD's call) the Chronometer Sport is MUCH cheaper than the Daytona.
Bloated collection 😅😅..I can totally relate to that.
I think this comment summarizes the core of the Zenith problem well. People don’t buy it unless there is a huge discount. Suppose there are two options at an AD - 1) you can buy a Panda Daytona or 2) Chronomaster at $2,000. I bet 99% including watch enthusiasts would choose 1).
Real winner here is a Seiko,6139 caliber with disc spring vertical clutch later became a staple for all chronos like Piguet,JLC,Omega,Tag Heuer,Breitling and manny others.Seiko vertical clutch is today a standard while Zenith El primero no one use beside Rolex.
@@gripeaceyeah there is no chronograph that touches the Daytona
@@hammalamiri12ypYeah, you should go look at a Speedmaster after you get your head out of your ass.
As a Tokyo based watch dealer I sell and source plenty of Zenith watches they certainly aren't difficult to sell and are excellent value as you mentioned.
I love it when people with actual data speak up. Some TH-camrs just have very little facts to share!
@@Tourtiere34 u got to love that only him reply it which based in Tokyo and the rest of the watch dealer seem to be so quiet lol
I bought my first Zenith watch in Japan. The selection was huge and they had some nice Japan LE models.
Im visiting Tokio this next December, and Im interesting in a nice Zenith Rainbow
Japanese consumers generally have better taste and a much wider depth of interest than Anglos, who are only interested in Rolax and RO (or moon Speedmasters)
I’ve not sold any of my watches, but I’m currently trying to move my Zenith Chronomaster Sport on. At first, I loved it. Then, I bought the Omega 3861 Speedmaster. When sat beside the Omega, I noticed that, for me, the Zenith’s quirks become irritations. Specifically, the fact that I can’t read the 60 minute subcounter (the hashmarks are too bunched up and the hand too thick), the low quality bracelet and the 4:30 date aperture. While many would say that the Chronomaster Sport is the better watch on paper, in real life I find that it doesn’t put up a meaningful fight against the Speedmaster. It’s time for it to be welcomed into a new, more appreciative home.
I have just the same situation. Somehow, new moonwatch is taking more time on the wrist than chronomaster sport.
I will humbly sacrifice myself and am open to recieve your Zenith, and as a sign of generosity, you don't even have to pay me anything for releasing you of your burden.
@@Iuckylukey I accept anything that ends your watch sorrows. I just have that big of a heart you know. And Im very humble too
me 2
When I saw the chronomaster sport I thought wow. I then bought the green dial aaron rogers chronomaster sport limited edition and I just love the detail, look and quality of the watch. For selfish reasons I hope they never get to popular as it is so nice to wear my zenith and not have everyone else wearing the same watch and the low risk of getting mugged is an added bonus! Love the content Brit, please keep it up.
I definitely don't mind Zenith having low output and awareness. I'd at least like it to remain that way long enough to get another or two! As soon as they make a push, I could easily see them being unapproachable, like what happened with JLC.
Although that was a very strange choice of ambassador
I guess I am weird, as I own two. One of my favorite brands
Agree with you Brit, it’s a marketing problem. I own 3 Zeniths, clearly I love their watches for their heritage, gorgeous dials and technical prowess. But that’s what they’ve been solely relying upon. Their boutiques deliver a mediocre experience, their ambassadors are unremarkable and their ads could get lost amongst the brands priced two tiers below them. Such a shame, there’s so much potential.
It’s better that way…no Rolex dickheads please I don’t want to look like those guys and my a384 is the jam
@@profanchorman1003 I don't think it's just a marketing problem. Zenith has been resting on its laurels for far too long. They need something to shake up the watch industry. Something to make the enthusiasts and the "average" consumer pay attention. Do aspirational marketing right. Come out with an affordable brand, and market it in such a way as to get consumers to see Zenith as an aspirational brand, "but in the meantime there's (insert affordable brand name here.)".
I entirely agree. I made my first luxury watch purchase this year as part of my 25th anniversary for a Swiss owned company in America, they put in a small amoutn and I put in much more for a El Primero Chronomaster Open with the 3604 movement. I know of Zenith because of my direct contact with many of the comapnies making their parts in Switzerland whom I have visited for decades. The brand could be so much better represented. At the same time when someone who really knows watches spots your Zenith it is like a secret handshake.
Thank you for your personal take on the Zenith brand. As an avid collector, Zenith takes up 5 spots in my current collection. I was always attracted to the fact that it wasn’t a mainstream brand (even though I have some of those as well). I love their history and their story. Most of all I like their designs and their movements. I also like the fact that with the Chronomaster sport they weren’t afraid to take a direct shot at Rolex. Someone has to. Ultimately it comes down to personal preference. If you do a little research, a newer buyer will see that there is much more out there than Rolex and Omega. As we all know, the you can get lost in what’s out there to chose from. Completely agree about their limited marketing. Zenith attached themselves to New York Jets QB Aaron Rogers a year or so ago. He’s a bit of a flake and not going to do much to advance the brand. Keep the content coming.
I feel like most people prioritise their collections on Rolex and other obvious choices first. Zenith is where you go once you have them.
I'd try to disagree ... but that's precisely what I did.
Or maybe when you dont wanna be like the majority of people who buy rolex just to show off…
I did the opposite. But I got my zenith for a crazy good price
Great points all round. But here’s the thing, many of the things here you flag as ‘negatives’ are actually the reasons I bought my Zenith (Chronomaster Sport). I think once you’ve gone through the nonsense of the hype pieces and further into your watch collecting journey, that’s when brands like Zenith and JLC start to appeal, and that’s the area of the market they currently service. I LOVE that no one knows what it is (unless they are watch people) , I love that when people see it on my wrist they don’t go ‘oh you’ve got a Rolex’. I love that the first question I get asked isn’t ’did you buy it at retail’. It’s one for the enthusiasts and not the show offs IMO. The points on marketing are spot on though, they are in danger of becoming obsolete if they only appeal to enthusiasts, a more mass market appeal is needed. Great vid as usual.
My dress watch is a Zenith by choice. Because I love the IYKYK factor it brings. Totally bought on secondary tho.
Bought as my daily, but just as you stated.
Yes, this is a correct assessment of Zenith issues. The marketing is confusing at best but the products are great. I fell in love with a Zenith elite in platinum back in the late 1995. It was 36-37mm, Silver guilloche with applied markers and a black crocodile strap. I loved it. Back in the day my father already owned a Rolex Daytona, with the Zenith movement. Like most, I learnt about Zenith through their Rolex connections but, when I visited a Zenith authorized dealer in Paris, I fell in love with the brand: very understated but with beautiful pieces.
Zenith is now part of the LVMH group and they seem to spend the right amount of time and money to develop the brand image. The problem is that you have many other brands with lots of money because they are part of large conglomerates.
You have not only LVMH but also Richmond and the Swatch Group. And then there is always the usual suspect:” Rolex.”
Anyway, loved the video.
I own 2 Neo vintage Zenith El Primero chronograph watches, they are fantastic. The problem with Zenith is they do very little to no marketing…..😊❤😊 When I see somebody wearing a Zenith I think ok this is somebody deep into watches and understands quality
Rolex spend more on marketing that all the other major brand put together. if you ask a man in the street to name Luxury watch brands they will always name Rolex. Meaning you can say to him 1) Advertising works and 2) It works on YOU
Hi Britt, really enjoyed the review and sadly agree with your views about Zenith.
However, I am lucky enough to have enjoyed a late 1960's Zenith Defy for many years, and I adore wearing it, so to experience the brand with a Zenith watch ownership, in my opinion, is thoroughly worth while.
I've always wanted to know why Zenith does not have the popularity.
In my country we have this very famous hotel (think infinity pool) with a large shopping mall that houses all the luxury brands.
There is also a so-called watch street where all the Swiss watch brands are at. For some reason the only brands that have the crowd are Swatch, Tissot, Tag Heuer, AP, PP and of course Rolex.
Zenith is in the middle of this "watch street" and for some reason there is forever no one inside which is a bit odd.
You're spot on about the marketing, but I have to disagree on everything else.
First off, thanks for the video! And I appreciate you bringing this topic up for discussion!
Here’s how I see it:
1) Zenith’s branding efforts are weak-I’m with you on that.
2) Are Zenith watches expensive? Absolutely, they’re quite pricey. But comparing the Chronomaster to the Daytona isn’t fair. You can’t buy a Daytona at retail price. Realistically, you can get a Zenith Defy Extreme for $20k, which is a solid alternative to a Daytona that would actually cost you $30k.
3) Bad bracelets? Zenith's latest models come with a quick-change strap system, and they include three different options in the box.
4) As for the "curse" of being a movement supplier, I’d actually argue the opposite. The fact that they created the original movement for the Daytona adds some extra flex points for Zenith. :)
Hoping it stays that way. I don't want mouth-breathing investor window-lickers anywhere near Zenith. Stay away, and just keep trading your base-model Rolex Oyster and Royal Piguet Audemars Oaks amongst yourselves.
You nailed it, Britt. I love a lot about Zenith, but their bracelets (and my AD rep even said as much) are not up to where they should be for the price point. I think their new Defy Extreme diver is very cool and love all the straps that come included, but the price is more than a Sub (granted, much easier to buy). The secondary prices on many Zeniths encourage buying grey market or pre-owned. Their Defy is quite nice, but I put it on directly after a Grand Seiko and the finishing is no comparison in favor of the GS. The GS was $3K less...
I don't know why they aren't more popular, but I do know that the best looking skeleton on the market is theirs with the Defy Skyline. 🤩
Okay, didn't realise they were that expensive, then their high prices.
I have a pretty rare zenith surf from the 1970s. Its seconds hand sweeps almost as perfectly as a spring drive grand seiko, i love it
me,too ,wind chronometer, black dial, dauphine hands set, white sweep. gorgeous.
Zenith - (LVMH), like the Swatch Group & the Richemont Group, have priced themselves out of the market. And who needs a 1/10th second timer? Tudor, Tissot, TAG Heuer chronographs have caught up quality and price wise.
All watches have priced themselves outta the market. Full Stop...
Disagree. Find a tissot, Tudor, or tag that is a chronograph and is as sleek as a chronomaster revival. All are big and bulky
Who needs a tachymeter? Who needs a "moon watch"? You don't have to be timing stuff to 1/10th of a second to appreciate a hi-beat mechanical movement, and a hi-beat movement on it's own goes largely unappreciated. It's a complication that showcases the brand's abilities and history in a functional way. It's just a chronograph with a distinction.
@@beerkegaard plus Omega are famous for thick watches
well who needs a chronograph or even a watch anyway since you have your smartphone? Today nobody uses the specs of a mechanical watch but that doesn’t mean you’re not intrested and amazed by those specs. Actually I am a guy who will chose the 1/10th over a « simple » dayto or speed because I feel I have something more and something to talk about your watch…
Very good points you made. Zenith is a top-notch brand, no doubt...their new pilot watch is sexy.
Because people fall for the hype of Rolex Omega Tudor etc etc I hope they don’t become too popular. Love my ceramic Pilot.
I'm wearing a Zenith "El Primero" Pilot. Wonderful watch. I bought it pre-owned.
When I hear “Zenith” my first reaction is “TV sets.” This name used to be a major TV brand in the US and I’m old enough to remember. I think Zenith’s problem is entirely brand name recognition. Almost everyone recognizes the name, but few know they make watches and fewer still know they make high end watches and even fewer know that Zenith makes movements for other brands. Personally, I like Zenith but they are pricey and I haven’t really seen a model that speaks to me. Plus, it’s a crowded market for a rather limited clientele. I would like to see Zenith do better in the market, but I can’t really help there. I have my one high end watch, an Omega Constellation 41 in Blue with a bespoke blue alligator strap. (I like customizing my watches.😎) But it really makes no sense for me to buy another luxury watch.
Great video! I like your take on this. 😎🍸
Completely agree! Same problem as Grand Seiko. These brands will never be A tier. Also - these C and B tier brands all have substandard bracelets..
Or those Russian cameras from the 70’s 😊
There is nothing wrong with the name
@@ChromeMan04 she asked a question and we answered. Name sucks because it reminds people of black-and-white televisions.
@@sonitty that’s literally only you. I didn’t even know there were televisions named zenith
I want and will own a Zenith El Primero at some point, but I need to stop buying other brands first. For the price point I find some others more compelling, but the El Primero is a must own to me.
Zenith's issue is that it is stuck between being a collector brand and a mass market brand. They need to make a choice, be the best $10k niche brand, or go after Rolex and GS. There is no reason why there shouldn't be the Four Horsemen of Watches: Rolex, Grand Seiko, JLC, and Zenith, to complement the Holy Trinity: Patek, Vacheron, and AP.
with JLC moving beyond that 10k point, I think Zenith should try to hover around that for the time being. Not too much further and it's going to be up against JLC (again), Blancpain, and Glashutte.
Saturday is watch change day. I'm currently watching this while wearing my El Primero Chronomaster 38 from 2017. Good video, Britt. I agree. In Australia they did do a celebrity endorsement with Lance (Buddy) Franklin - an Australian football champion. They made two Defies, gave one to Buddy and auctioned the other one. They need to do a lot more than that.
Zenith are the only modern (luxury) watches I own. Two, Defy classic ceramic in black and blue. All my other watches are petite yellow/white gold vintage.
Brava Britt for having ask and spread the questions on this glorious brand!
I agree on what you say on more intelligent marketing and lower prices for a certain improvement. Personally I've got two (one is a Zenith Movado) and I like this brand with the star . I actually dream owning an Espada one day😊.
I am of the age that associates the brand Zenith more with TVs and electronics than with watches.
You may know that in 1971 Zenith electronics bought a chunk of the Zenith watch company, to no one's benefit.
your comment made me lol, because it applies to me as well.
This. I think this is the main reason: Zenith means consumer electronics to most Americans.
Spot on. In addition to being priced at a tier where other options are plentiful.
This is a shame, because there’s not much they can do about this. Zenith is a heritage brand and changing it would be silly.
I actually agree with you 100%. It’s a very underrated brand. Last week I just brought a zenith el primero triple calendar moonohase. My first zenith and I’m loving it. You should look at it.
Personally I think Zenith should come out with a more average consumer friendly line of watches because that would certainly help increase their popularity.
Wouldn't that take away from the prestige, allure and also drive some customers away, especially the ones who have paid over 6 to 10,000 on a watch? That is like asking Rolex to make a consumer grade watch. Citizen watches does this very same thing you are suggesting. However the difference is Citizen doesn't have prices in the 6 to 10,000 price range.
@@Needro13 well let's put this into perspective. In 2021 Zenith (that's all I could find.) made a little over $131 million. In 2023 Rolex made $10.1 billion. Comparatively the hit to Zenith's prestige would be minimal, and could be course-corrected once they gain popularity. To put that into even sharper relief, assuming Zenith made the same amount in 2023, they were 710.67 Million dollars short. Maybe they create an alternate brand that is still manufactured by the same people, but under a different name.
I would say the latter suggestion of making another brand with of course a totally different name. That could bring in some revenue. I do think Zenith needs to step up their marketing game as well.
@@Needro13 agreed.
that will be the death of the brand...
You are spot on with the wearing experience. And ironically, more lesser luxurious brands like tissot, citizen, etc. discovered this waaaay before zenith and others with their nice integrated bracelets.
Compared with many Longines references selling at one-third or one-half the price of similarly styled Zenith references, there is just nothing compelling in their line-up. Even watch geeks need a reason to part with $6,000 - $11,000.
High-beat auto chronograph. And, buy pre-owned.
Actually stood in a store in Las Vegas that sold Zeniths. Nice watches. Looked at prices, took a deep breath. Wondered how much better it is than Longines. And realized I could get three Longines for the price of one Zenith. So I walked out, bought a nice Longines online, and then spent the saved $4500 on a very nice vacation.
@@IV9000 Longines and Tudor both offer a very high level of quality and style variety in their lineups, just tons of great alternatives even to the Crown.
@@IV9000nice watch. But it's only an ETA movement, and the machine-only finish is not near Zenith. It's also a brand with massive, massive economies of scale that Zenith at 15,000 watches a year only dream of. You certainly didn't get a Zenith for your four grand.
@@SampleTracks2224 I get it. But the Zenith price put it up there with some of the lower priced Rolexes (that hold or increase their resale in the event I’d want to sell). Not saying Zenith isn’t a great watch, it’s just that price for something with very little cache compared to Rolex or Omega - and being quite a bit more than say the Aqua Terra, I just couldn’t make it make sense.
Picked up a AMZWATCH's watch as my first watch last month and I’m absolutely in love with it. Perfect size, looks elegant, very comfortable. Now my only problem is holding off from buying more watches so quickly!
You can buy El Primero from 90's for around 2-3000$ that literally has the same mechanism inside like the new ones. They only added silicone part there in new ones for antimagnetic purposes. Lots of Zenith enthusiasts buy that instead
No, it's silicon. Silicone is fake boobies.
Fortunate to own a Chronomaster Sport (white face) as well as a few Rolexes and I totally agree with you on the bracelet. I switched out the bracelet to a white rubber strap (Zealande) and have not put the bracelet back on. The white rubber strap does draw a bit of attention (bunch of us watch geeks at work) but I wear it often. In addition, the see-through case back allows visualization of the beautiful mechanics of the movement, which is one of the most beautiful at this price point (IMHO). Love your style and delivery, Britt.
Very similar to my experience... I was originally drawn to the Chronomaster Original but didn't love how the lugs seemed to hover in air on the wrist, and my mind moved to the Chronomaster Sport (white dial). It wears amazingly well on my wrist, but I can not stand the bracelet and lack of on the fly adjustments. I put it on the navy blue Zealande rubber strap, and it's a match made in heaven. In contrast, I have the blue dial Yachmaster and put that on a white Zealande rubber strap, and the two watches are like yin and yang in my collection now.
Four key reasons why the public isn't interested:
1) No brand prestige or positive associations with film, celebrities, etc amongst most of the public. No one outside the watch community has even heard of the brand. Until Benedict Cumberbatch or (insert global celebrity) starts wearing one in films or they have some famous collaboration people aren't going to take a look.
2) A one hit wonder for many people. They produced one amazing movement/watch and that's it. People have a wide range of tastes. If you aren't into chronographs why bother.
3) Sharing a name with a famously awful electronics/TV manufacturer doesn't help. It sounds like a dated American brand.
4) Resale value. People can forgive crappy resale if the brand has some prestige or cool factor. Zenith has neither.
You may not agree but it's the truth. They would need a full overhaul to salvage the brand. New movement, new designs, focus on wider market and major marketing initiatives.
To me, the bracelet's experience is always perceivable on the wrist and (to me) is more important than the mouvement which I know nothing of. I'm an old computer guy, and if I care about the ~3 kilohertz oscillation of a mechnical watch I'd go for the ~2 gigahertz oscillation of a smart watch. Again, to me, mechnical watch is about fashion accessory and touch feeling which is important and missing in a screen-based world, but the tech inside a mechanical watch is rather rudimentary. This is a great topic Britt, keep them coming please!
I love zenith. Currently the chronomaster sport white dial is my dream watch for my 50th bday. Hopefully in 4 years, I'll be able to get it.
Do it. You will not regret it.
@@halfsourlizard9319 That's the plan 🍻
9:50 is an older version ? Can’t finde on their website in this configuration
I am a No One.
At least you have a happy smile 😀
I recently purchased a Chronomaster Orignal black/tri-color and LOVE the watch. The finish all around and looking at the El Primero! I line up with much of what you were saying. Almost never saw one in person and associated them as a movement maker. After going to a boutique and seeing them in person a much different opinion. I completely agree with their metal bracelet and strap finishing. That just isn't up to par with the rest of the competition. I really hope they are able to up their marketing, a brand that is very slept on and deserves more attention.
Great video, lets hope they reach out 😊
They are very popular here in Japan. I see them on wrists quite often. Having said that I see absolutely no attempt at marketing their pieces
I’ve noticed that too while looking at preowned Zeniths on eBay. It seems a huge amount of zenith watches come from Japan. Why is it so popular there?
@Timmicillo the price of watches here is a lot cheaper than say Australia. I often get my brother to check out certain models back home and send me the price and I compare to here and do the conversion and it's significantly cheaper. Also Japan gets models in a lot of brands that are Japan exclusive only. Like certain colors and dials. Another reason is that normally, Seiko, Casio and other traditional Japanese brands were worn here and were the brands of choice for significant life events and gifts. Now you compare a Zenith El Primero to say a Grand seiko and I can guarantee that most young Japanese will choose the Zenith simply for the fact that it looks cool and that it doesn't look like their dad's and grandfather's watch.
This video is one of my favorites. I appreciate your analysis. It’s a topic that could be expanded upon. Creativity and innovation are in opposition to ownership and control.
You’re not well informed for a watch channel! Zenith set a company record last year with profitability and sales. So, I guess people ARE buying Zenith but that wouldn’t get a lot of views for your channel so you go negative instead.
She's rubbish
On point! Thank you Brit for a perfect analysis
Let's not forget the servicing costs. High beat chronograph movements costs $£¢€¥ to service
For a hi-beat in-house movement, Zenith is still relatively affordable to service.
And something like an El Primero 400 has decades of tried and true history to it, unlike a lot of pop up in-house movements that can experience growing pains and elevated service pricing.
@@EdwardViaTomato my El Primero was serviced about 10 years ago by an octogenarian master watchmaker for £55. Lucky me , he was retiring and this was a sort of end of an era gift. Still very accurate but the next bill will be larger .
Chronos always cost $$$s to service.
My Zenith chronomaster sport is absolutely fantastic. The movement is best in class. The bracelet wears so comfortably. It is light on the wrist. Zero complaints. They are expensive because they are elite in quality. I have a Date just 41 and a Glasshutte Senator and love them all.
No. I love that all the posers wear Rolexes and I am the only one with a Zenith. Defy the norm comes to mind every time I look at my wrist.
says the one who detest rolex sure why not
What's really funny about this comment. Is if it wasn't for Rolex? Zenith would have disappeared years ago. Since Rolex used the Zenith El primero movement. It helped save Zenith from certain death. So you should be thanking Rolex. You guys think that your some highfaultin watch enthusiast but you don't know anything. The story is online go learn something
@@lonewolfemcquade8133 lol don’t get your panties in a bunch. I love Rolex as much as the next guy, but I love myself more and if Im going to spend $10k plus I would like some exclusivity and not be just one more in the room thats all.
I considered a pre-owned Zenith Chronomaster Sport but the lack of a 12-hour timer register was the deal killer. The price was right at $5,700 in mint condition with box and papers.
I decided to stick with my Omega Speedmaster Professional for the 12 hour timer, but seem to wear my Bulova Lunar Pilot as my daily. I have a turbocharged SAAB 9-5, and I use the chrono for turbo timer shutdown. I use the Speedmaster 12-hour register to time parking meters.
I'm a big chrono person but do you really time things more than 30 minutes or 60 minutes?
@@kurtklimisch7498 I do Kurt, especially $65 fine Manhattan parking meters. But I get your point. I do have to say that when maneuvering around a much more dangerous Manhattan, I've been wearing my Casio DW5600E-1V with its great timer. And most of the time I'm content with my Bulova Lunar Pilot and its 1-hour register.
I bought a Zenith Defy Extreme Diver in blue 4 weeks ago 👍
in house movement without COSC or even METAS great!!
@vibr0314 Zenth watches are known for their accuracy, hence no need for COSC, or METAS certification
@@kbarnbrook4993 How do you determine how accurate the watch is?Do you have the watch, and have you ever made a video about it? What makes you confident that without a valid certificate to prove they tested and tried the watch, it is accurate?i can say i am a doctor i can do operation for u what make u think i need a certificate for it
I have a zenith defy extreme. Absolutely love it. Although I will say I never spent even close to the retail price. RRP was £21k and I got mine for £12.5k for an AD as well. I never would have spent the full price
Britt, the Daytona is £3000 more expensive than the chronomaster that’s 31% more expensive, how on earth is that a similar price?, that’s before you even factor in the AD discount that you could no doubt negotiate with Zenith, poor comparison here…..
The point with Daytona is simply that it is a gorgeous watch with a perfect case, a great movement and a luxury taste that few other Watches transmit. 30% more is not a huge difference when you compare the perfect watch to a very good one…like a Zenith Chronomaster Original…that I own btw
There are $1000 watches with micro adjust systems
I am the owner of a Zenith El Primero Triple Calender - Moonphase.
I love this brand and its incredible story !
If I have a little money, the next one will be the Zenith DEFY Revival A3648.
Greetings
I'm sure Zenith is not hurting for money when you buy their watch you know what you have that speaks more than marketing
I tried a Defy Chronograph in titanium and 1/100th second markers and it’s my next target. Problem is it’s $18.6k at the shop. I am much more inclined to get it from Jomashop for $12.7k. Very awesome watch for sure.
If no one bought them the company would not exist , so I guess plenty buy them. Just because you dont see them I dont think Zenith has a problem
Good point! ❤
Zenith has real passionate people behind them, they put Quality over hype.
You'd be surprised how long a company can last without selling all that much merchandise especially if they supply very important components for other people's products. They definitely have a marketing issue.
The problem off all those brands that they became parts of bigger conglomerates that are big enough to absorb the cost and sometimes losses from their subsidiaries and in this case of Zenith they are part of LVMH , also being part of a big group makes you dependent on its investment priorities and currently LVMH are pushing Tag Heuer and their flagship Louis vetton watch brand.
Especially if the product they sell is this expensive. They sell quality watches, but like any high-end watch the brand the markup is insane. Easy to keep your company afloat with a business model like that.
Taking Timepieces with Tony is the only TH-camr that I have came across that is passionate about Zenith
For me, Zenith is like a Tag Heuer and Breitling - on the wrist the feel and aesthetics of a Zenith watch does not spark the joy or feeling of quality of Rolex, Omega, or Grand Seiko. As a result Zenith, Tag, and Breitling seem way too expensive.
I'd much rather buy a Omega or a Grand Seiko - heck even a Tudor or Longines. But, that is just my buying preferences - for others the complete opposite may be true.
If you think for 1 second that Rolex, Omega, Tudor etc are better than a Zenith then you really know feck all about horology😂😂😂
the spark of joy is all very subjective. You've conditioned yourself to love certain brands because they have your peers' approval. The spark of joy from owning a Rolex, I'd say for most, is based on the social status and public recognition this piece is giving them.
@@Tourtiere34 My peers and professional co-workers could care less - if I was conditioned by my peers I would have an Apple Watch or only Rolex. I like what I like, and buy everything from Steeldive and Vostok to Omega and Grand Seiko. I collect and wear watches for myself alone. So weird people want to contest another person's personal preferences.
@@salty5402 and yet the spark of joy you're experiencing happens to be very randomly happening on three of the most known and recognized watch brands most collectors can afford.
@@Tourtiere34 They are the peers to Zenith, this why I used them as examples along with Longines and Tudor - would saying Tissot, Orient, Vostok, Steeldive, Fredrique Constant, Nomos, Citizen, and Seiko proven something - because I own all of those too, because, get this, they spark joy.
I've been shopping for a Zenith today. Beautiful watches.
You wont be disappointed, extremely underrated time pieces.
I don't buy Zenith watches because the name of the company reminds me of crappy TVs from 25 years ago.
The Zenith Defy Skyline that comes with 2 bracelets is different and their quick release to change them is really good.
You forgot one thing… they making only 30 000 watches per year.
Even here in Switzerland, over 95% of people have no idea what Zenith is…
Just found a physical shop that sells this brand it's a challenge here.
If I spend so much money for watch, I go for a brand that the majority of people know… for the bling bling effect 😊
Britt, spot on! All accounts! The ElPrimero is the last step in my collection and I just can’t bring myself to buy one. I don’t think they have innovated or improved over years but I love their involvement and history. I wish they’d go rogue again and rewrite some history.
There isn't a Zenith problem, there is a stupidity problem of people buying into all the marketing BS. A watch being aspirational, give me a break. There's a lot in life to aspire to but to own a particular watch because it's popular, I'll pass.
Can’t agree more.
Oof! Truth bomb. The problem is with the people, not the product Zenith is putting out. Also, this video is silly. Zenith is making about $100m a year in sales and their sales are significantly increasing year over year. The brand is nowhere near struggling so idk what she’s getting at… Zenith is very alive. Enthusiasts get it, and even people who just want something nice understand when they have one of these in their hands. Comparing it to a popular brand like Rolex or Cartier, even an uninformed shopper can see why you’d spend thousands on this piece of jewelry.
This isnt marketing bs. Aspirational watches arent supposed to be the most popular watches, theyre supposed to be the watch that in an earlier period fo your life would be an irresponsible purchase. The aspiration is that you can afford luxury, so youd need to buy a matching level of luxury which zenith doesnt provide to the non-watch guys. Top tier luxury doesnt need to be recognisable but regular tier luxury absolutely does for the purpose of being a symbol of your financial accomplishments; a symbol doesnt work when noone recognises it
@@stocksxbondage They sell 12,000 watches a year. That is nothing.
@@lamentate07 same amount of cars Ferrari sold last year 🙄 profit margin profit margin profit margin. Number of sales isn’t a measure of success. Company could sell/produce one unit and make millions in profit. Depends on what the unit is. Either way, number of sales doesn’t indicate Zenith is taking loses.
Great comparison to JLC, Britt. So true. The Master Ultra Thin is my favorite dress watch. JLC improved that caliber over the ones they supplied to AP and VC and still used it as late as the 90s and 2000s.
LVMH keeps Zenith sandwiched between Heuer and Hublot. I love my Shadow but I would like Zenith to retool the El Primero the way Rolex did and offer a vertical clutch.
nice watches but too much money
Thanks for an interesting discussion on Zenith watches. It's Zenith or any other brand, if you like it, if it speaks with you and if you can afford it then it is the watch for you. I bought my first Zenith watch for the same reasons. It was mesmerizing with amazing specs and movement and, it clicked with me. It is Zenith Captain Winsor El Primero annual calendar watch. To my knowledge, it is the only annual calendar watch with a hi-beat movement. I love it and enjoy it.
it's that star logo - it's i know but it grates on my aesthetics
I bought the Zenith because of the star logo. 😏
I love, love my Zenith Elite Ultra Thin, a fabulous timepiece as good as any in my modest collection. The leather strap is fantastic although I do wish they did a deployment option. Great brand and stands up to anything else equivalent in price IMHO. Great video as ever, thank you!
1.Zenith watches are not easy to service and very expensive
2.They price similarly to Hublot and operate as a second hublot. Their pieces are generally identical to Hublot look plasticky.
3.poor marketing my AS* the real reason are their poor price point for sure that is the real reason same as panerai hublot
so expensive but get nothing special
The El Primero movement is widely regarded as the best chronograph. Therefore very special
@@grammarboy1318 who rated them the best chronograph?lol
Consequently, there are constantly more special chrono brand watches available out there
@@vibr0314 I said movement. Pay attention.
Do you know the meaning of the words El Primero? First. The best. It was used by Rolex in the Daytona until around 2000. Stop displaying your complete ignorance.
@@grammarboy1318 like i told u who rated them?it was used by Daytona rolex means rolex got the best of it too that was what u type not me...if they are the "El Primero" First .......the best ?where u put Daytona since they had been using it until around 2000 the 2nd best ?..did u ever read ur own comment?
@@vibr0314 I wish I was as brilliant as you. In the interim I’ll look at my very valuable watch collection, and aspire to know what you know.
I initially second-guessed myself for replacing my seldom-worn 3861 Speedmaster Hesalite with a Chronomaster Original. The Speedy’s bracelet was super comfortably, but the Zenith’s overall design and size won me over. And the date window is a bonus!
Hope we get the birth announcement and that all goes well for your family and your beautiful self!
You are completely right...but then if Zenith invests in marketing, watches will be more desirable and probably more scarce and prices will go up and then..... A Zenith is for enthusiasts, not for the common daily watch user...it is like Panerai...which by the way used Rolex calibers at some point in their life...a real Paneristi will never choose a Submariner over his beloved watch. History is there to be cherished by us geeks that like different stuff in our wrists...thanks for your great reviews!
Too expensive. For the money they charge, I would buy a more known brands as you mentioned.
Regarding JLC they test their watches even harder then others. Personally I own a Zenith from 1905 and it still runs perfectly and considering the movement for the El Primero got saved by one of their watchmakers when they were about to scrap everything is even more fascinating
Because they're named after crappy TVs from the 70s 😂😂
The crappy TVs came decades after the Watches actually...........
Just got my new Zenith Chronometer Sport!! and you are right about the publisity of the brand, there is none!!!
They cost too much for a watch no one has ever head of before.
"They cost too much for a watch that no one who will look at my watch has heard of before" can't flex if people don't know what they are looking at haha.
Speak for your own ignorant self 😂
@@OpheliaNL for me it has nothing to do with flex I love its history and how fantastic the El Primero is.
Thoughtful video. I flirted with owning a Zenith and think you nailed it.
Hot take: 80% of Swiss watch brands including Zenith are pretty damn mediocre.
I think they are mainly excellent at all price points, that’s no hot take.
I have a Zenith Chronomaster Sport, and I love it --- on the black leather strap I put it on because the bracelet doesn't have enough adjustability.
Another overpriced watch brand
Great video Britt, but I'm surprised that you didn't cover ownership costs. I've been tempted by a Zenith but have been put off after reading tales of sky high servicing charges and less than stellar customer support.
I think the retail cost of Zenith is also impacted by other brands in the LVMH group, they won't want to be competing with TAG Heuer who's prices have jumped up massively in the last few years.
I have two, a ceramic Defy Classic and the Aarong Rogers Chrono Sport.
I love both and am extremely happy with both of them. The 1/10th of a second is way more useful on a chrono than a tachymeter. And the Defy Classic is an amazing wearing watch, so underrated.
I am an enthusiast though, so I get what you’re saying.
So weird! I’ve been in to Zenith today. And spent all afternoon YouTubing them… And then you post this. Crazy!
I do agree with pretty much all of your points. I do have a black Chronomaster Sport and love it, but I did buy it on the secondary market unworn with box and papers for 30% off. It's an amazing watch, but it was difficult for me to pay msrp when you can buy a practically brand new watch for that big of a discount. It is also odd that they do have big celebrity endorsers like Aaron Rodgers in the NFL, Patrick Mouratoglou in Tennis, and Chis Kirk in the PGA, but I never see them actually leverage those individuals to help push the brand forward. You also never see them in print or digital advertisement anywhere which is insane because being part of the LVMH group it isn't like they don't have the money to advertise....
Thanks!
I love my Zenith El Primero. It was my first watch that started my love of mechanical watches
I am actually debating between Zanith Captain and JLC MC. Leaning towards the JLC for the fact that I have one in my collection and it’s a more “established “ brand but the Zenith really sings to me and on the secondary market, it’s a steal!
I love my Zenith Chronomaster with the amazing El Primero movement. I've owned mine for 2 years now and it has averaged less than 1 second per day time loss over that period. Currently I am losing 0.3 seconds per day. Unreal. Plus, it is such a beautiful watch - it just sparkles.
100% agreed regarding Zenith. That’s what I purchased Speedy 3861 sapphire sandwich- has both tapered bracelet and micro adjustment.