And supplies, to at least some extent. I've found it pretty unerringly true that what you can do with supplies in terms of final results, is a direct result of the quality of what you use to accomplish it. And good materials and supplies - even just paper and pens - cost.
I paint mini figures for my local game store. I have a price chart with different prices based on the size of the figure and how detailed they want it. This way I charge more for a detailed elf fighter then a gigantic two toned rock giant
I had no idea people want to buy maps like this. I'm currently drawing my first fantasy map for a book I'm about to write, and discovered that I really enjoy drawing maps! Was thinking I should continue to draw maps after I'm finished with my own just for the sheer enjoyment of it, and then I saw this video of yours (been going through some others for inspiration and such) and it hit me. Wait a minute, I could be doing this for a living?! WOW. Mind blown. Great information and great videos, keep it up mate!
I know this has been up for a couple of years now, but as a long-time freelance writer/editor I'd just like to say: THANK YOU! That is solid, actionable advice for anyone wanting to do freelance work. I'm especially pleased to hear you warn folks off from working for publicity -- as I have long said, "Exposure is what you die of when you can't pay the rent." :)
I sell on Etsy (mostly calligraphy) and plan to expand into cartography this year. While they take a cut, Etsy is a good host for your website, takes care of payments, provides necessary tax information, etc.
I used to be obsessed with Elder Scrolls V Skyrim when I was a kid (and I still am). I was so furious when I heard that such a video game doesn't have a contemporary novel or something like that. Thus, despite being 13, I gave myself a goal of writing it. 2 years later I had it published. No matter how many grammar errors I had and despite the fact that I dislike the style it's written in, it set me on the right track. A few older writers told me to give up and start writing after college and not while in middle school, but I didn't listen to them. Fast forward 4 years later, I have 9 published works and 2 more in progress, written in a remarkable style, as some other writers commented on them... And according to those authors from before, I still shouldn't have began, since I am going to college this autumn Sometimes it pays off to be determined and stubborn. Do whatever you want to do people. It pays off. No matter how bad it seems initially, it will at least teach you something. Any form of productivity is better than just slacking off, playing video games or partying all day (I mean that has its place too, but you get my meaning)
...when I was a kid. You have no idea how old this makes me feel XD But it is inspirational nonetheless. I've started work on mapping things out for a videogame and creating and modeling creatures.
I dont get the "cant you do it for free? Its going to be good exposure." thing. When I contact an artist for something Im going to publish, I go in understanding its going to be more expensive not less to get the rights to use it commercially.
I've always loved to draw maps ever since I was little, I've drawn thousands over the years but I never thought about getting paid to draw one. The thought of someone paying me and then failing or just them being dissatisfied gives me anxiety and I tend to feel like I can do nothing of value.
This was the video I was looking for, thanks so much Nate! I've been thinking for some time now to start doing commissions, and this video got me all the info I needed! Cheers!
I’m a writer who had a major writers block because my characters had the be to a different world. Then I watch your how to make a fantasy map, used some of my own tricks like naming places, and bam the block was gone and I was able to write again now that I know where I was going. I had made a bunch of map blanks, land trace outs using beans and rice for making large contingents and small islands, for any future projects I may have. Thank you for helping with that.
I am in no way a freelance artist (cartography is more of a hobby to me), but I do some coding comissions on the side of my coding job, and I found that a lot of these tips apply really well to that as well! Overall a great amount of useful information in this video.
so something about exposure i like to keep myself to is, if somebody actually has a big enough active following that their exposure would be actually worth it, theyve also got enough money to pay you, if they cant afford to pay you than their exposure isnt worth it either
Awesome video with some great tips - thank you Nate. I must say I agree it's worth charging correctly for your time as detailed maps can take many hours... Must say I love the Star Wars artwork on your wall too!
Is there any tool that allow to make maps on a globe, then take flat projections from it, so you can make a both a globe and a regular map without having to draw one free handed?
This is great! I posted my very first map on my Facebook page after just drawing it for fun for a watercolor challenge and had several author friends reach out and tell me they know people who would probably pay for maps if I wanted to have a side gig, so although I want to draw more maps and see if it's something I want to stick with, it's something I want to think about. This information was great for consideration!
me and my friend were trying to make a fantasy novel and i drew a map of my world i have never made map before and it was kinda good after shaping the world and islands i started drawing kingdoms but the borders that i made was kinda bad but i am still learning and this is my first video seeing u talk about maps and how to make maps time to watch and learn u have earned a follower
I am an artist. Thankfully most of the people I've dealt with believe in paying for the work. If I don't have time when I get an offer, I will tell them that I can't accept anything at this time and that I'll contact them when I can. But when I contact those people later on, they never reply. Not even to say, "No thank you."
4 hours on a mini? Absolutely. A lot of times, more time. I am by no means a great painter but I try to make each of mine a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing.
The best speech i ever heard on YT about starting some job. Congratulation! You are doing well. And thanks for your video about Inkarnate. I am starting project right now after i found them over your channell.
I liked the video! Hehe, so much of what you said is true. Definitely the over committing thing. I recently took up an agreement to do Three Large city maps and got paid a quarter up front. I didn't take in account the large amount of repetitive work over a substantial amount of time would in turn start burning me out. I am a quarter into the second City map and already feel like I can't make myself draw another block of houses. So lesson learned there, only take up one map from a single client at a time and then discuss the next after finished. Also, variety in projects helps so much! That said, it is coming along. Also, having a range of prices ready also help, for example doing a town map takes sooooooo much less time than doing a large city, so then doing a map like that for under a $100 is perfectly fine, also the same with dungeon or region maps against the much more time consuming continent or world maps. I like making the options clear. Anyway, again thank you for this video. It kind of better arranged the thought processes that goes into doing maps for commissions. :)
DAMN BRO...you got me here 5:03 xD ...that is the reason why I am here!!! But hey, many thanks for this video. I am also a father and a guy who work 10 hours 5 days a week....and doing commisions for maps is a great idea.
I started painting minis because I thought it would be relaxing, but wasn't sure if I was any good. Also with a day job I have painted two minis but I may do more on weekends and free time
As a musician, I agree with you. You can’t give your art away for free for more than a time or two, or you’re never going to get ahead or have the time to expand your craft and ability.
Speaking as a miniature painter (strictly for my own enjoyment/hobby at the moment) time spent on a miniature is relative and the defining factor usually comes down to what you want to do with that miniature; most get painted to what's commonly referred to as "tabletop standard" or "tabletop quality" which means that they look fine when viewed from a distance on the table, which translates to simple techniques like base coating, washing, maybe one or two quick highlights so that there's good contrast between details. However, if its a character or something like a commander/general for wargaming, you usually wind up spending more time on it; more careful and controlled washes, glazes, layers of thinned highlights that blend well. So really one can spend a varying amount of time on a miniature depending on the desired result.
Thanks for the advice Nate, fantastic useful info here. Loving the style of your maps. Just so you know some of your web site links don't work, would also be nice to see some zoomed in sections of your map portfolio. Thanks again, keep up the good work
I think a better title might have been "How to support your hobby!" I don't think most people realize how expensive just one good sheet of quality art paper can be. I began playing table-top rpgs in 1983, but I also knew many micro-wargamers, miniature-wargamers, and historical reenactors. Up until the mid-'90s when conventions began turning into corporate cash cows, conventions and gatherings were THE place to sell or trade your wares to get more supplies. A good hobby should be able to pay for itself, though mine never did. I took metal and jewellery design in college as my art elective and that's an expensive hobby if you NEVER try to sell what you make. I found my niche in sculpting and casting pewter minis and I knew others who would paint for me but there just wasn't enough of a market to cover costs back then. As the hobby fell into decline these communities of creators just went away. It is nice to see them coming back, but I really think the focus for the average creator should remain on self-sufficiency first simply because nobody gets rich doing this. A few can earn a decent living, but there is a huge difference between a decent living and being independently wealthy. Make enough to pay for your hobby then focus on making a little extra to spend on something nice but PLEASE don't quit your day job until after you've paid off what you owe on your car.
Questions... Do you use 300 ppi for the maps? And printing. Do you often print them out? Is it rare? When you do print them out, what's the usual size? And do you increase a price if you are handing out a printed copy? Thank you :)
I have now been drawing different maps to my own worlds for some years. As I have improved my skill (I think at least) I was thinking about trying to make it to my side hustle and sell some maps. When you sell your maps, do you send your customers an actual and physical map on a paper. Or do you send them the map so that they can download it?
New here! I paint miniatures as a commission occasionally and I usually charge based on the cost of the product itself + a percentage from it. Since I cannot guarantee the time due to unpredictable schedule, I mostly just say it may take 3 days or 1 month, but the price is all the same. If it becomes a more regular thing, then perhaps i might reform my charging policy.
@@WASD20 A split sheet is commonly used in theater and music. The artist creates a piece that fills what's needed, (be it a song, VO, art... ect.) signing a split sheet. When the product sells, you get your percentage of the profits based on the split sheet contract.
@thusquoththeinnkeeper if I had seen this video about four days ago I probably would have felt the same way. I watched about 20 videos randomly in anticipation of a new campaign I'm planning and decided to put graphite and ink to paper last night. I spent about six hours and made a map that blew me away, as well as a few of my players. Now could I sell this one? Haha I wouldn't dream of it, but the difference in skill between the first hour and the sixth hour is massive. I'm excited to make a few better versions of it. Watch some videos and go for it! Shoot for the moon.
As you were talking about earlier, I have an app that actually helps you code games and apps with no coding knowledge needed. The app is Sketchware and it is on Google play. I think the website thing could also work with cartoons.
Hi Nate, your channel has been the first I've checked after getting into drawing, and it was really helpful and fun to watch, thanks! I have a question though: have you had issues with plagiarism before? if yes, how did you solve it? I usually use watermarks on my online posts just to be safe, but idk if it's necessary and in the end it's not great for the map's looks.
I came here for the shape of your head, but ended up getting some good advice. I've been making maps for a while now, and have so far been posting most of my work on facebook. I have made a couple of maps by request, for friends (currently working on a map of Ansalon from the Dragonlance saga in an alternate timeline), but everything I've done so far as been for free. It's honestly so relaxing that I don't mind making maps for free, but I suppose it would be nice if I could earn a couple of bucks for doing something I enjoy doing. :)
For sure! Helping friends is great. It's a nice gift. But once you're done with those if you want to keep going there are opportunities to get paid commissions.
Hey, I have only just started getting into map drawing because I started DMing..... Surprise surprise :P I am curious, do you hand-draw then use photo-shop to digitalise? Or do you use (is it possible to use?) paid-for-software for your maps? Thanks!
@@stealthyrollz5077 funny you should say that. A month or so after writing that comment I started using incarnate. Been a subscriber since then. It’s amazing.
Hey, thanks for this video! Came in very handy. I have started to do commissions a while ago, mostly for the client's personal use. Do you have any tips or guidelines on rates for a commercial use?
When you're doing commissions, do you ever use software like Wonderdraft to jump-start your process with things like landmasses (looking at you, coastlines!) and bodies of water? Or do you start from scratch with PS and a Wacom (or pen and paper) for every piece? Thanks for the video! This was great.
I’m an artist and I do character commissions but I would really like to branch out into doing maps after working on a few of my own for my campaign - I’ll be honest that price you mentioned is a big reason why too because I currently don’t earn that much per hour on my characters so it would be a nice income boost and the two together could end up being enough to let me go fulltime. Do you have any limits to what you’ll draw? I notice a lot of your maps are quite zoomed in, if someone approached you wanting a full world with 3+ continents, fully developed with a high level of detail and features - would that be something you’d consider or would it just be too large scale? I’m mainly asking because I work digitally and that kind of map would require a huge canvas and even then a lot of details might be lost simply from being so zoomed out
This was great! However, you only really mentioned patreon at the end instead of including patreon as a serious income stream for mapmakers, which I think is definatly worth a video :)
Yeah! I considered it, but it’s something I’m quite new to, and I mostly make world maps. These are much harder to leverage on Patreon than encounters/dungeon maps.
14:20 some people know how to commit fraud on paypal asking for a refund as the service they get is not what they were expecting. Paypal will be always on the client side and it's a risk. But is not so common.
So when people commission you to make a map, how do they receive the finished product, do you just send them an image file or do you print it out on paper or an actual game board and mail it to them? Also what do these maps typically have at minimum in order to use them for tabletop games? I like making maps just as a hobby but I wouldn't mind helping some people out who either can't draw or afford special software.
I send digital files. I only sent a physical map once. There's not really any requirement for what they should have to be used in tabletop games. It's really just a reference and can have as little or as much as the GM wants.
WASD20 thanks, also are commissions really only reserved for hand drawn custom maps? I use Wonderdraft for my own maps and recently I've had a couple people asking if I take commissions but if I'm using a program that honestly isn't all that hard to use is it even reasonable to put myself out there for commissions?
@@ReaverLordTonus I certainly see no problem with taking map comissions for your work in Wonderdraft. I don't do it, but have no problem with those who do.
I drew a map of Ansalon (Dragonlance) just for fun and showed it to one of my friends. He liked it so much that he asked me to draw a map of the Sword Coast for his D&D game? Lord knows I tried but that map is huge. I tried drawing it all in one but it was so squashed it looked awful, I tried splitting it up into separate maps but that didn't work either. In the end I just got overwhelmed I had to tell my friend I couldn't do it. Even now when I think about trying to design a map I hit the anxiety barrier & it stops me in my tracks. Do you have any advice on overcoming an anxiety barrier when asked to draw a map?
It should be fun. If you aren't enjoying it, don't do it. Take a break and come back to it. Additionally, start smaller. It sounds like the project you undertook was overly ambitious. I've done this too, but when I'm getting paid I have no choice but to muscle through. Late nights usually ensue. :) But yeah, maybe you just need to start smaller. On a map of Sword Coast, you'd need to prioritize settlements and locations. Like if there are 50, cut it down to the 20 largest. You just can't show everything on a map like that if you want to keep your sanity! Good luck to you.
If someone wanted art "for exposure", it could be reasonable to instead ask for royalties. Even say 1-5% of the profit of said book. They don't pay anything up front, and if that "Exposure" is worth anything it will pay for itself sooner or later.
I pulled it and made a post over on the community tab on my channel. I recommend reading it. You’re calling it a ‘hit piece’ is further confirmation that I made the right move. :)
WASD20 I watched the video and my impression was, "Why bother feigning support with 20 bucks, when it's clear you don't believe in the venture?" I had been subbed to you, and it bothered me that someone who creates videos to help folks get into the game would rail against the biggest vector for D&D. I saw it as what I've seen with other creators or long time players: dismissive with the attitude, "I was here first, and I do it right." I went to your Twitter and saw the tweets and retweets supporting CR and came back to see if there was a discussion going on and to rewatch with new perspective, but the video was gone. I'll admit I used "hit piece" to provoke a response, and I would have viewed the Community tab instead, if I was more TH-cam savvy. Just like other folks have mentioned, it's better to keep arguments against after ther crux of an argument. It allows the viewer or reader to see actual intent but also shows that you're not unaware of opposing views. I think CR was willfully naive to post such a low goal, but I've never seen them do anything but deliver and over deliver.
I assure there was no 'feigning support'. My support of this project is genuine and I don't feel I was "railing against it". But I appreciate the conversation. Lesser people would have just walked away, but you're talking to me, and giving me a chance to explain, which I appreciate. I'll let my post speak for rest. You can read it here: th-cam.com/users/WASD20Natecommunity
@@WASD20 As soon as you mentioned the community tab in your first reply, I immediately read it. I follow folks like you, BMC, and DM Scotty because I build terrain, home brew adventures, paint minis, and love the hobby in general. CR got me back into gaming after a three year hiatus, and I've gotten several others into (and back into) table top games as a result. I think I was caught off guard when a creator I respect had shoveled out a dang healthy dose of skepticism over the project. I definitely clutched my pearls when I watched your video, but then I realized I'm a grown-ass man, not a kid who hates everything and everyone that doesn't "get it".
It's not capitalism to get paid for your work. It's capitalism to hire others to do the work for you then pay them a wage that's less than the value of the product they made. i.e. there is literally no difference between "taking a cut of someone else's paycheck" and "capitalist profits." What you're doing is artisanship, not capitalism.
@@WASD20 I mean, I should clarify that I know you weren't making any kind of statements about capitalism in the video. You were just mocking people who hate it when artists charge money for their work, and that's fair. It's just that *I* am one such person who uses "capitalist" as an insult, but when I say it, I mean it, so I thought I'd take a moment to clarify why the word doesn't really apply to what you're doing. Commissioned artisans have existed for centuries, if not millennia, longer than capitalism has. You're following an ancient tradition that has produced everything from lewd Greek pottery to the Sistine Chapel's ceiling. You have every right to be rewarded for your hard work without being compared to exploitation. Good on you.
I've been looking to start doing this myself! I've made a couple maps, and some friends/others suggested I start taking commissions. Ive also made my TH-cam channel all about it and DnD. Would you be open to critiquing a map?
If you want critique, create an account on Cartographer's Guild and then start a new map thread and put your work up for commentary. You'll get plenty, and the most knowledgeable and experienced people there will be very constructive.
I am too busy trying to learn to make a novel. So if someone can do campaign cartographer for me, that would be great. I am trying to learn the program but looks like a steep learning curve.
If you put it out there and you and continually get no interest, you may not be there yet. Ask for feedback in some of the groups I mentioned. Just, ask - "you think anyone would pay for this?"
I draw my own maps and own character portraits, even if they aren't good, I think they've got more soul and value than drawings made by some dude who doesn't care about it.
On pricing: If it's a hobby, price your work at a price that will make you happy when you send out the artwork. After all, if it's a hobby, then it should make you happy, right? And if people aren't willing to pay that, OK. If it's a business, the right price is "what the traffic will bear". This might come in at less than minimum wage; this is not the problem of the person offering the money. And your time is not inherently worth anything to me at all, I'm just paying for a product. If you can't make a living wage, you might want to try a different business. On the other hand, it might come in at $500/hr (in your _dreams_, anyway 8-) ). Do not be afraid to raise your prices if you have more work than time. Remember, any price that a willing buyer and willing seller can agree on is fair, as long as the parameters of the job are understood and agreed to ahead of time.
@@WASD20 To be fair, it's kind of rehearsed. I've taught miniatures painting on occasion, painted minis for decades (more than 4!), judged miniatures painting, helped to run a painting group .... The question comes up a lot, and it's come up for my stuff. I know myself well enough to know that nobody wants to pay a price that would make me happy to get rid of my artwork. But if someone were to offer the right price, .... 8-) Let's just say that it's kind of like convincing me to live in L.A.: it might be possible, but a personal helicopter is probably worth more than any work product I could generate.
What is wrong with you?! We cannot have just any louse deciding where things go and which way is what. Ghouls and troglodytes everywhere are going to be drawing and painting all sorts of horrid expressives and hording treasures in their dank filled holes. Looks like I am going to have to become a hero to deal with the swell in up-start monsters. Oh right, I am already two heroes: The Scarlet Pumpernickel and Duck Dodgers in the Twenty Fourth and a Half Century! Will have to go around and blow up all those X's too. (Us Andriks are not insane or anything).
Great question. I generally don’t. I send a digital file and if someone wants a printed version they can absolutely take it to a local printer. This would save them a lot of money over what I would charge to ship it.
I charge for my time and work. This how most artists operate these days. It's not the same as buying a poster. It's about custom creating a map of someone's game world according to their specifications. From there they can do whatever they want with it. Printing is cheap and easy.
actually selling your art by yourself is one of the least capitalist ways to make your living in a capitalist society, no exploited workers, worker ownership of the product and real freedom to chose what and when to produce.
Anybody saying "art should be free" doesn´t get that you are not paying for the art. You´re paying the guy for his time, creating the art.
And supplies, to at least some extent. I've found it pretty unerringly true that what you can do with supplies in terms of final results, is a direct result of the quality of what you use to accomplish it. And good materials and supplies - even just paper and pens - cost.
Yea music should be free. TV should be free. Cars should all be the same price. Anything with a unique aspect should be free. Lol
I've been exposed. It's true Nate, I'm only here for the shape of your head
I appreciate your honesty. 😆
I'm only here for asmr effect, I find your voice relaxing.
SOOOO big brain
Wow you're a high school teacher? My respect for you just shot up to double and it was already high you talented stallion.
Lol
What do you teach at high school? Let me guess, art?
I paint mini figures for my local game store. I have a price chart with different prices based on the size of the figure and how detailed they want it. This way I charge more for a detailed elf fighter then a gigantic two toned rock giant
I had no idea people want to buy maps like this. I'm currently drawing my first fantasy map for a book I'm about to write, and discovered that I really enjoy drawing maps! Was thinking I should continue to draw maps after I'm finished with my own just for the sheer enjoyment of it, and then I saw this video of yours (been going through some others for inspiration and such) and it hit me. Wait a minute, I could be doing this for a living?! WOW. Mind blown.
Great information and great videos, keep it up mate!
I know this has been up for a couple of years now, but as a long-time freelance writer/editor I'd just like to say: THANK YOU! That is solid, actionable advice for anyone wanting to do freelance work. I'm especially pleased to hear you warn folks off from working for publicity -- as I have long said, "Exposure is what you die of when you can't pay the rent." :)
Can you recommend some sites?
I sell on Etsy (mostly calligraphy) and plan to expand into cartography this year. While they take a cut, Etsy is a good host for your website, takes care of payments, provides necessary tax information, etc.
Sounds good.
What is calligraphy?
I used to be obsessed with Elder Scrolls V Skyrim when I was a kid (and I still am). I was so furious when I heard that such a video game doesn't have a contemporary novel or something like that. Thus, despite being 13, I gave myself a goal of writing it. 2 years later I had it published. No matter how many grammar errors I had and despite the fact that I dislike the style it's written in, it set me on the right track. A few older writers told me to give up and start writing after college and not while in middle school, but I didn't listen to them. Fast forward 4 years later, I have 9 published works and 2 more in progress, written in a remarkable style, as some other writers commented on them... And according to those authors from before, I still shouldn't have began, since I am going to college this autumn
Sometimes it pays off to be determined and stubborn. Do whatever you want to do people. It pays off. No matter how bad it seems initially, it will at least teach you something. Any form of productivity is better than just slacking off, playing video games or partying all day (I mean that has its place too, but you get my meaning)
The human race evolved thanks to one thing; mistakes.
...when I was a kid.
You have no idea how old this makes me feel XD But it is inspirational nonetheless. I've started work on mapping things out for a videogame and creating and modeling creatures.
Well look at YOU! Do you have links to your works?
Can we buy them? I am really intrigued
I dont get the "cant you do it for free? Its going to be good exposure." thing. When I contact an artist for something Im going to publish, I go in understanding its going to be more expensive not less to get the rights to use it commercially.
try being a gigging musician.
@@xxbrkdwnxx How many want to pay you in bar discounts?
$1,000,000 Exposure Bucks = $0 USD.
In CAD money, it's worth 10$ I think...
Canadian here, $1,000,000 Exposure Bucks actually converts to -$10 CAD. That's right, it converts to a negative number.
Need my adress so you can make a transfer? Haha!
I've always loved to draw maps ever since I was little, I've drawn thousands over the years but I never thought about getting paid to draw one. The thought of someone paying me and then failing or just them being dissatisfied gives me anxiety and I tend to feel like I can do nothing of value.
This was the video I was looking for, thanks so much Nate! I've been thinking for some time now to start doing commissions, and this video got me all the info I needed! Cheers!
Great! Good luck to you!
I’m a writer who had a major writers block because my characters had the be to a different world.
Then I watch your how to make a fantasy map, used some of my own tricks like naming places, and bam the block was gone and I was able to write again now that I know where I was going.
I had made a bunch of map blanks, land trace outs using beans and rice for making large contingents and small islands, for any future projects I may have.
Thank you for helping with that.
I am in no way a freelance artist (cartography is more of a hobby to me), but I do some coding comissions on the side of my coding job, and I found that a lot of these tips apply really well to that as well! Overall a great amount of useful information in this video.
so something about exposure i like to keep myself to is, if somebody actually has a big enough active following that their exposure would be actually worth it, theyve also got enough money to pay you, if they cant afford to pay you than their exposure isnt worth it either
Awesome video with some great tips - thank you Nate.
I must say I agree it's worth charging correctly for your time as detailed maps can take many hours... Must say I love the Star Wars artwork on your wall too!
Is there any tool that allow to make maps on a globe, then take flat projections from it, so you can make a both a globe and a regular map without having to draw one free handed?
This is great! I posted my very first map on my Facebook page after just drawing it for fun for a watercolor challenge and had several author friends reach out and tell me they know people who would probably pay for maps if I wanted to have a side gig, so although I want to draw more maps and see if it's something I want to stick with, it's something I want to think about. This information was great for consideration!
me and my friend were trying to make a fantasy novel and i drew a map of my world i have never made map before and it was kinda good after shaping the world and islands i started drawing kingdoms but the borders that i made was kinda bad but i am still learning and this is my first video seeing u talk about maps and how to make maps time to watch and learn u have earned a follower
Your info and demos are awesome nate. Cheers from oz.
PS
I still can't do the ridgline mountains. 😂
"That's fantastic. My rent is exactly 1200 exposures a month." Pft!
I don't even understand people who dislike video's especialy good ones like this
Your altruism is encouraging as always. There are still good people in the world. Great video!
I am an artist. Thankfully most of the people I've dealt with believe in paying for the work. If I don't have time when I get an offer, I will tell them that I can't accept anything at this time and that I'll contact them when I can. But when I contact those people later on, they never reply. Not even to say, "No thank you."
4 hours on a mini? Absolutely. A lot of times, more time. I am by no means a great painter but I try to make each of mine a masterpiece. Thanks for sharing.
Yep. That’s my problem. I only say it’s a problem, because I have over 100 unpainted minis. 😬
such a good video. i don’t draw maps but this transfers like you say to any art form allot of people have no idea how much time goes into drawing.
The best speech i ever heard on YT about starting some job. Congratulation! You are doing well. And thanks for your video about Inkarnate. I am starting project right now after i found them over your channell.
I liked the video! Hehe, so much of what you said is true. Definitely the over committing thing. I recently took up an agreement to do Three Large city maps and got paid a quarter up front. I didn't take in account the large amount of repetitive work over a substantial amount of time would in turn start burning me out. I am a quarter into the second City map and already feel like I can't make myself draw another block of houses. So lesson learned there, only take up one map from a single client at a time and then discuss the next after finished. Also, variety in projects helps so much!
That said, it is coming along.
Also, having a range of prices ready also help, for example doing a town map takes sooooooo much less time than doing a large city, so then doing a map like that for under a $100 is perfectly fine, also the same with dungeon or region maps against the much more time consuming continent or world maps. I like making the options clear.
Anyway, again thank you for this video. It kind of better arranged the thought processes that goes into doing maps for commissions. :)
This is something I am interested in possibly pursuing. Thanks for the video, Nate!
Thanks for making videos and great tutorials for drawing maps.
Thanks to you now i have my own hand made map.
The Cartographer's Guild forum is also one of the friendliest places on the internet.
I second this I was active on it a few years ago and the people there helped get my skills up alot
DAMN BRO...you got me here 5:03 xD ...that is the reason why I am here!!! But hey, many thanks for this video. I am also a father and a guy who work 10 hours 5 days a week....and doing commisions for maps is a great idea.
Good advice Nate! Thanks! :D
I started painting minis because I thought it would be relaxing, but wasn't sure if I was any good. Also with a day job I have painted two minis but I may do more on weekends and free time
As a musician, I agree with you. You can’t give your art away for free for more than a time or two, or you’re never going to get ahead or have the time to expand your craft and ability.
Also, I’ve been watching your channel for four years?! Thank you for all your help!
Thank you for your support!
Speaking as a miniature painter (strictly for my own enjoyment/hobby at the moment) time spent on a miniature is relative and the defining factor usually comes down to what you want to do with that miniature; most get painted to what's commonly referred to as "tabletop standard" or "tabletop quality" which means that they look fine when viewed from a distance on the table, which translates to simple techniques like base coating, washing, maybe one or two quick highlights so that there's good contrast between details. However, if its a character or something like a commander/general for wargaming, you usually wind up spending more time on it; more careful and controlled washes, glazes, layers of thinned highlights that blend well. So really one can spend a varying amount of time on a miniature depending on the desired result.
Thanks for the advice Nate, fantastic useful info here. Loving the style of your maps. Just so you know some of your web site links don't work, would also be nice to see some zoomed in sections of your map portfolio. Thanks again, keep up the good work
I think a better title might have been "How to support your hobby!" I don't think most people realize how expensive just one good sheet of quality art paper can be. I began playing table-top rpgs in 1983, but I also knew many micro-wargamers, miniature-wargamers, and historical reenactors. Up until the mid-'90s when conventions began turning into corporate cash cows, conventions and gatherings were THE place to sell or trade your wares to get more supplies. A good hobby should be able to pay for itself, though mine never did. I took metal and jewellery design in college as my art elective and that's an expensive hobby if you NEVER try to sell what you make. I found my niche in sculpting and casting pewter minis and I knew others who would paint for me but there just wasn't enough of a market to cover costs back then. As the hobby fell into decline these communities of creators just went away. It is nice to see them coming back, but I really think the focus for the average creator should remain on self-sufficiency first simply because nobody gets rich doing this. A few can earn a decent living, but there is a huge difference between a decent living and being independently wealthy. Make enough to pay for your hobby then focus on making a little extra to spend on something nice but PLEASE don't quit your day job until after you've paid off what you owe on your car.
Questions... Do you use 300 ppi for the maps? And printing. Do you often print them out? Is it rare? When you do print them out, what's the usual size? And do you increase a price if you are handing out a printed copy?
Thank you :)
I have now been drawing different maps to my own worlds for some years. As I have improved my skill (I think at least) I was thinking about trying to make it to my side hustle and sell some maps.
When you sell your maps, do you send your customers an actual and physical map on a paper. Or do you send them the map so that they can download it?
Superb info bud. Well done!
New here! I paint miniatures as a commission occasionally and I usually charge based on the cost of the product itself + a percentage from it. Since I cannot guarantee the time due to unpredictable schedule, I mostly just say it may take 3 days or 1 month, but the price is all the same. If it becomes a more regular thing, then perhaps i might reform my charging policy.
Thanks for the comment!
Nate, if you ever redo this video you might bring in the idea of split sheets.
Can you explain?
@@WASD20 A split sheet is commonly used in theater and music. The artist creates a piece that fills what's needed, (be it a song, VO, art... ect.) signing a split sheet. When the product sells, you get your percentage of the profits based on the split sheet contract.
Excellent video as always Nate, thanks! Alas that I have the graphical skill of a gelatinous cube, no mapping business for me
As a “businessman” I suppose I should be glad that not everyone has it in them. 😆
Trace your slime trail my friend! Boom! Cartography!
@thusquoththeinnkeeper if I had seen this video about four days ago I probably would have felt the same way. I watched about 20 videos randomly in anticipation of a new campaign I'm planning and decided to put graphite and ink to paper last night. I spent about six hours and made a map that blew me away, as well as a few of my players. Now could I sell this one? Haha I wouldn't dream of it, but the difference in skill between the first hour and the sixth hour is massive. I'm excited to make a few better versions of it. Watch some videos and go for it! Shoot for the moon.
Hi i like the idea of count the time you need for a map. I right now doing it and it helps for further map comision. So thanks for some good ideas.
As you were talking about earlier, I have an app that actually helps you code games and apps with no coding knowledge needed. The app is Sketchware and it is on Google play. I think the website thing could also work with cartoons.
You read my mind with this video. Thank you.
It's like an orange on a toothpick!
A very inspiring video. Thank you for putting this out there.
Very informative and encouraging
Thanks so much, this was massively helpful!
Hi Nate, your channel has been the first I've checked after getting into drawing, and it was really helpful and fun to watch, thanks! I have a question though: have you had issues with plagiarism before? if yes, how did you solve it? I usually use watermarks on my online posts just to be safe, but idk if it's necessary and in the end it's not great for the map's looks.
I came here for the shape of your head, but ended up getting some good advice. I've been making maps for a while now, and have so far been posting most of my work on facebook. I have made a couple of maps by request, for friends (currently working on a map of Ansalon from the Dragonlance saga in an alternate timeline), but everything I've done so far as been for free. It's honestly so relaxing that I don't mind making maps for free, but I suppose it would be nice if I could earn a couple of bucks for doing something I enjoy doing. :)
For sure! Helping friends is great. It's a nice gift. But once you're done with those if you want to keep going there are opportunities to get paid commissions.
Hey, I have only just started getting into map drawing because I started DMing..... Surprise surprise :P I am curious, do you hand-draw then use photo-shop to digitalise? Or do you use (is it possible to use?) paid-for-software for your maps?
Thanks!
Inkarnate will be your best friend.
@@stealthyrollz5077 funny you should say that. A month or so after writing that comment I started using incarnate. Been a subscriber since then. It’s amazing.
Hey, thanks for this video! Came in very handy.
I have started to do commissions a while ago, mostly for the client's personal use. Do you have any tips or guidelines on rates for a commercial use?
Happy 4th anniversary!
Thank you great tips wonderful insights
When you're doing commissions, do you ever use software like Wonderdraft to jump-start your process with things like landmasses (looking at you, coastlines!) and bodies of water? Or do you start from scratch with PS and a Wacom (or pen and paper) for every piece?
Thanks for the video! This was great.
I start from scratch.
@@WASD20 Good to know! Thanks for taking the time to reply!
Thank you for the advice!
Super helpful! Thank you
customer "I'll pay you in exposure"
me"AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHY"
Hello how are all of you, and how has your day been?
Very well and it has been fun and interesting, thank you kind stranger. How about you?
@@magiv4205 It has been interesting as well although studying is tedious
@@armaanrampersad2415 That makes me happy. I have the tedious studying before me today. Have a nice day^^
@@magiv4205 you to
Ok why are you so nice on TH-cam :D
Thanks for this video. It was very informative.
I’m an artist and I do character commissions but I would really like to branch out into doing maps after working on a few of my own for my campaign - I’ll be honest that price you mentioned is a big reason why too because I currently don’t earn that much per hour on my characters so it would be a nice income boost and the two together could end up being enough to let me go fulltime.
Do you have any limits to what you’ll draw? I notice a lot of your maps are quite zoomed in, if someone approached you wanting a full world with 3+ continents, fully developed with a high level of detail and features - would that be something you’d consider or would it just be too large scale? I’m mainly asking because I work digitally and that kind of map would require a huge canvas and even then a lot of details might be lost simply from being so zoomed out
I bet he's a science teacher, maybe secretly a history teacher.
Damn Nate you making some serious nerdy bank scheduled a year out. #blessed
This was great! However, you only really mentioned patreon at the end instead of including patreon as a serious income stream for mapmakers, which I think is definatly worth a video :)
Yeah! I considered it, but it’s something I’m quite new to, and I mostly make world maps. These are much harder to leverage on Patreon than encounters/dungeon maps.
Very true :)
14:20 some people know how to commit fraud on paypal asking for a refund as the service they get is not what they were expecting. Paypal will be always on the client side and it's a risk. But is not so common.
Makes sense.
Excellent video 👍
So when people commission you to make a map, how do they receive the finished product, do you just send them an image file or do you print it out on paper or an actual game board and mail it to them? Also what do these maps typically have at minimum in order to use them for tabletop games? I like making maps just as a hobby but I wouldn't mind helping some people out who either can't draw or afford special software.
I send digital files. I only sent a physical map once. There's not really any requirement for what they should have to be used in tabletop games. It's really just a reference and can have as little or as much as the GM wants.
WASD20 thanks, also are commissions really only reserved for hand drawn custom maps? I use Wonderdraft for my own maps and recently I've had a couple people asking if I take commissions but if I'm using a program that honestly isn't all that hard to use is it even reasonable to put myself out there for commissions?
@@ReaverLordTonus I certainly see no problem with taking map comissions for your work in Wonderdraft. I don't do it, but have no problem with those who do.
I drew a map of Ansalon (Dragonlance) just for fun and showed it to one of my friends. He liked it so much that he asked me to draw a map of the Sword Coast for his D&D game? Lord knows I tried but that map is huge. I tried drawing it all in one but it was so squashed it looked awful, I tried splitting it up into separate maps but that didn't work either. In the end I just got overwhelmed I had to tell my friend I couldn't do it. Even now when I think about trying to design a map I hit the anxiety barrier & it stops me in my tracks. Do you have any advice on overcoming an anxiety barrier when asked to draw a map?
It should be fun. If you aren't enjoying it, don't do it. Take a break and come back to it. Additionally, start smaller. It sounds like the project you undertook was overly ambitious. I've done this too, but when I'm getting paid I have no choice but to muscle through. Late nights usually ensue. :)
But yeah, maybe you just need to start smaller. On a map of Sword Coast, you'd need to prioritize settlements and locations. Like if there are 50, cut it down to the 20 largest. You just can't show everything on a map like that if you want to keep your sanity! Good luck to you.
@@WASD20 Thank you.
Witch program do you use to draw Maps? I want to learn how to make Maps.
Btw, I think imgur it's pronounced "Imager"
Thank you!
Really? Lol thanks I wasn't aware of that
Image-ur
If someone wanted art "for exposure", it could be reasonable to instead ask for royalties. Even say 1-5% of the profit of said book. They don't pay anything up front, and if that "Exposure" is worth anything it will pay for itself sooner or later.
can you use a background map for wonderdraft?
What software do you use for creating and selling the maps i mean, something like wonderdraft or do you make them un Photoshop or What?
You can use the software that most suits your mapmaking needs. I for one use the free software Gimp to my commissions.
What happened to the CR Kickstarter hit piece that was posted this morning?
I pulled it and made a post over on the community tab on my channel. I recommend reading it. You’re calling it a ‘hit piece’ is further confirmation that I made the right move. :)
WASD20 I watched the video and my impression was, "Why bother feigning support with 20 bucks, when it's clear you don't believe in the venture?" I had been subbed to you, and it bothered me that someone who creates videos to help folks get into the game would rail against the biggest vector for D&D. I saw it as what I've seen with other creators or long time players: dismissive with the attitude, "I was here first, and I do it right." I went to your Twitter and saw the tweets and retweets supporting CR and came back to see if there was a discussion going on and to rewatch with new perspective, but the video was gone. I'll admit I used "hit piece" to provoke a response, and I would have viewed the Community tab instead, if I was more TH-cam savvy. Just like other folks have mentioned, it's better to keep arguments against after ther crux of an argument. It allows the viewer or reader to see actual intent but also shows that you're not unaware of opposing views. I think CR was willfully naive to post such a low goal, but I've never seen them do anything but deliver and over deliver.
I assure there was no 'feigning support'. My support of this project is genuine and I don't feel I was "railing against it". But I appreciate the conversation. Lesser people would have just walked away, but you're talking to me, and giving me a chance to explain, which I appreciate.
I'll let my post speak for rest. You can read it here: th-cam.com/users/WASD20Natecommunity
@@WASD20 As soon as you mentioned the community tab in your first reply, I immediately read it. I follow folks like you, BMC, and DM Scotty because I build terrain, home brew adventures, paint minis, and love the hobby in general. CR got me back into gaming after a three year hiatus, and I've gotten several others into (and back into) table top games as a result. I think I was caught off guard when a creator I respect had shoveled out a dang healthy dose of skepticism over the project. I definitely clutched my pearls when I watched your video, but then I realized I'm a grown-ass man, not a kid who hates everything and everyone that doesn't "get it".
It's not capitalism to get paid for your work. It's capitalism to hire others to do the work for you then pay them a wage that's less than the value of the product they made. i.e. there is literally no difference between "taking a cut of someone else's paycheck" and "capitalist profits." What you're doing is artisanship, not capitalism.
Fair point!
@@WASD20 I mean, I should clarify that I know you weren't making any kind of statements about capitalism in the video. You were just mocking people who hate it when artists charge money for their work, and that's fair. It's just that *I* am one such person who uses "capitalist" as an insult, but when I say it, I mean it, so I thought I'd take a moment to clarify why the word doesn't really apply to what you're doing. Commissioned artisans have existed for centuries, if not millennia, longer than capitalism has. You're following an ancient tradition that has produced everything from lewd Greek pottery to the Sistine Chapel's ceiling. You have every right to be rewarded for your hard work without being compared to exploitation. Good on you.
Talking about the hours
We should include breaks or not
Nope.
Yeah man. I've got vector graphic and 3d model experience, but zero talent marketing myself.
I've gotten into map making and I'm fairly good, but whenever i find someone interested in my mals, they do not want to pay.
Bummer!
I wish you were my teacher 🙃
Nice.
30 per hour a portion up front.... so trade skill yhea that's ligit.
Great advice.
Thanks for the video. What do you teach?
Social studies - history and government.
he has Star Wars posters cool
6:30 R.I.P. Sony sketch xxxx-31/9/19
I've been looking to start doing this myself! I've made a couple maps, and some friends/others suggested I start taking commissions. Ive also made my TH-cam channel all about it and DnD. Would you be open to critiquing a map?
If you want critique, create an account on Cartographer's Guild and then start a new map thread and put your work up for commentary. You'll get plenty, and the most knowledgeable and experienced people there will be very constructive.
@@Immolate62 ill have to check it out then later this weekend!
Wait, there's really a demand for maps?
yup
@@BGMcWhirter Who buys them?
@@comradebear9477 i draw for tabletop roleplaying game publishers, scifi & fantasy authors, and private commisions.
I am too busy trying to learn to make a novel. So if someone can do campaign cartographer for me, that would be great. I am trying to learn the program but looks like a steep learning curve.
Hit me up I'm sure I can help :) fantasymapink@gmail.com
How do you know if the product you can turn out is worthy of charging for?
If you put it out there and you and continually get no interest, you may not be there yet. Ask for feedback in some of the groups I mentioned. Just, ask - "you think anyone would pay for this?"
@@WASD20 Wilco...thank you
I draw my own maps and own character portraits, even if they aren't good, I think they've got more soul and value than drawings made by some dude who doesn't care about it.
On pricing:
If it's a hobby, price your work at a price that will make you happy when you send out the artwork. After all, if it's a hobby, then it should make you happy, right? And if people aren't willing to pay that, OK.
If it's a business, the right price is "what the traffic will bear". This might come in at less than minimum wage; this is not the problem of the person offering the money. And your time is not inherently worth anything to me at all, I'm just paying for a product. If you can't make a living wage, you might want to try a different business.
On the other hand, it might come in at $500/hr (in your _dreams_, anyway 8-) ). Do not be afraid to raise your prices if you have more work than time. Remember, any price that a willing buyer and willing seller can agree on is fair, as long as the parameters of the job are understood and agreed to ahead of time.
This is a really good way to look at it and I agree wholeheartedly. I wish I was as eloquent. :)
@@WASD20 To be fair, it's kind of rehearsed. I've taught miniatures painting on occasion, painted minis for decades (more than 4!), judged miniatures painting, helped to run a painting group ....
The question comes up a lot, and it's come up for my stuff. I know myself well enough to know that nobody wants to pay a price that would make me happy to get rid of my artwork. But if someone were to offer the right price, .... 8-)
Let's just say that it's kind of like convincing me to live in L.A.: it might be possible, but a personal helicopter is probably worth more than any work product I could generate.
Cha'alt!
What is wrong with you?! We cannot have just any louse deciding where things go and which way is what. Ghouls and troglodytes everywhere are going to be drawing and painting all sorts of horrid expressives and hording treasures in their dank filled holes. Looks like I am going to have to become a hero to deal with the swell in up-start monsters. Oh right, I am already two heroes: The Scarlet Pumpernickel and Duck Dodgers in the Twenty Fourth and a Half Century! Will have to go around and blow up all those X's too. (Us Andriks are not insane or anything).
How do you handle printing?
Great question. I generally don’t. I send a digital file and if someone wants a printed version they can absolutely take it to a local printer. This would save them a lot of money over what I would charge to ship it.
@@WASD20 wow so you can charge 300 just for the digital file?! I need to get in on this :D
I charge for my time and work. This how most artists operate these days. It's not the same as buying a poster. It's about custom creating a map of someone's game world according to their specifications. From there they can do whatever they want with it. Printing is cheap and easy.
@@WASD20 yeah man, fair enough :)
@@WASD20 also, your work is incredible. If I didn't want to do this myself, I would definitely jump on your waiting list.
Can i work for you?
Sure. I pay in beans.
actually selling your art by yourself is one of the least capitalist ways to make your living in a capitalist society, no exploited workers, worker ownership of the product and real freedom to chose what and when to produce.
You are right
“Filthy capitalist!” 😂
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