Two part vise build - holding large parts on the mill - Hemingway Kits
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2024
- In this video I build a two part vise from Hemingway kits. It's useful for holding large parts on the milling machine
Vice kit;
www.hemingwaykits.com/HK2350
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/ joneseymakes
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Timestamps
0:00 Introduction
1:05 Machining the casting
14:30 Using the D-bit grinder
22:45 Making the vise nut
24:30 Vise locking mechanism
24:50 Testing the 2 part vise
26:09 Conclusion
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The counterbore pilots are designed to locate in clearance holes, so are bigger than the screw size. The ISO recommended medium clearance fit for an M6 is 6.5mm. They enable freehand drilling of counterbores on a drill press and would not locate properly if the pilot was only 6mm, as you suggest. Measure the pilot size before drilling the clearance hole is always a good idea. p.s. countersinks are for chamfers.
Personally I would have blind tapped the fixed jaw to give a nice smooth face & counterbored the body from the back.
If you are struggling for depth with a boring bar, cut the counterbore first, deeper if required & make the head of the nut thicker.
That's really interesting. I didn't know that the ISO clearance for M6 is 6.5 so that makes sense. I alway prefer a tighter fit so always make my M6 clearance holes just over 6mm. I like your suggestion about counterboring from the back, much cleaner. Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.
Damn, all my clearance holes are ISO-failed.
What the fuck does dierettly mean?
@@joneseymakes
It's close, the clearance hole for a M6 is 6,6mm
You can also chuck your counter bore into the d-bit grinder 😁😁
Make sure to check for deflection on your plate when you clamp down on it. That plate has a large surface to thickness ratio, and can easily bow upwards when you clamp it. This will cause you to end up with a dished plate when you un-clamp it.
Just put an indicator in the middle of the plate and check how much it deflects when you apply clamping pressure. Ideally you would not want to go above .02mm.
Great content!
The plate looks like bright mild steel so it will bow & twist once the surface is machined.
Thanks, good advice.
Actually, the twisting side clamp is more likely to make the centre deflect downwards.
Great work mate. Impressive workhop and set up. I really like the personalised finish on this 1, very cool 😎
Thanks man!
Would love to see some videos on the D-Bit grinder. I picked one up last summer and I know I've only ground the surface of what it can do.
I'll make one, thanks
Very nicely done! Great videography and narration! Enjoyable. D-Bit grinder videos would be great!! Thank you
Thanks, much appreciated! D-Bit grinder video on the list then
With regards to the chatter when using the endmill as a countersink, partially lock the quill as you drive the quill down. Or you can lock the quill and raise the knee, or maybe in your case you can lower the head. Regardless there is space for recoiling in the rack on the quill and that is the primary source of the chatter.
Great tip, didn't think of that. Will try it, thanks.
The best way is to just lower the rpm's and maintain a good feed rate, once it starts it's difficult to get rid of but if it starts the best way to stop it is to hold the quill handle tightly and barely touch the part feeding in just a tiny amount and just hold it there until everything evens out then you can back it off lower the RPM's and feed it faster which should stop the chatter.
Here's a trick... You can just put the vice hard Jaws on the outside of your vise and you have successfully extended the work holding space. ;)
That didn't even occur to me. Good thinking!
@@joneseymakes cheers mate. That's what we do in the shop all the time for the oversized stuff. Allows you to get up to about 12" and maybe more
Doesn't look like his vice has that capability.
@@jeremyhere2002look again. It clearly does
@@justin_704so his moving jaw has clearance for the lead screw? I am going to stick with probably not. Though I do see the holes on the back.
Went over to the guy who owns hemmingway to pick up some kits and he mentioned you by name, nice built
Yes he is a nice bloke. Kirk his name is.
I built a set about 18 months ago, use them often as it gives me more real estate under the head on my Tom Senior mill.
Nice one Mr Jonesy. I'd definitely be up for a vid on the D bit grinder, they fascinate me. Or even a series?
Good to hear, I’ll get started on that.
Great video, as usual ! I would be happy with a video on the D-but grinder, particularly its use for grinding lathe tools.
Thanks!
Thanks for your video, its great to see something built from start to finish. like anything you do it's possible to look at it a second time and perhaps do it differently. Take no notice of negative comments everything I see on the internet always has them. Ive ordered the kit for this vise and when I've made that I will be getting the tailstock die holder with the simple clutch. Please keep up these build videos.
I'm sure you need a tool Post grinder :)
Haha, I could do with a tool post grinder in fact!
You could make a video using the D bit grinder to reduce the diameter of the guides on your counter bore milling cutters to the size of the clearance holes you require..
Good suggestion, I will do that.
Definitely make a d bit grinding video! That’d be awesome. Great video too mate.
Thanks! Will do!
Mitee-Bite toe clamps would have fit the bill nicely. Good to see a Jonesy video again!
Thanks, that's true. I need to get some of those!!
should really grind in those jaws and the vise perpendicular. would love to see surface grinding content
I have a surface grinder waiting to be fixed here in the shop. Keep an eye out for videos on that
The main reason I designed the vice (yes, copied from a Gack shaper vice) with soft jaws was running a milling cutter into a hardened jaw really can ruin your day. With soft jaws replacement is easy.
Hemingway did a nice job with the kit, although they have made some changes - for example, the tightening bolt I tapped directly into the CI.
Good to hear from you Michael. You've done a great job on the design of this kit, it was a fun build and a useful tool to have around the workshop. Thanks for the info on the jaws, makes sense. Just found your channel, some good stuff on there by the looks of it, I will have a watch. Cheers.
Very nice build. Loving the boxes you make for your tools too. Class act.
Cheers man!
Great to see you back! Sounds like you have also improved your microphone!
Thanks! The microphone sound has been a real problem for me so glad it sounds better on this video. Still room for improvement I think!
@@joneseymakes have you tried a pop filter?
@@davidjohnson6965 I've been using one for the last few videos. Before that it was much worse.
Nice work, thank you for sharing! 👍👍
Thank you! Cheers!
Hey you're back! Great to see you again :)
Thanks! Planning to be posting more regularly from now on.
I'd really like to see you do a video on the D- bit Tool grinder especially as I have been wanting one for a while, ok great! I'll be looking forward to seeing that video then!..lol Thanks, I love the channel and appreciate the work you put in to making your content!
Thanks! I'll get on to making the D-Bit grinder video then
@@joneseymakes Looking forward to it!
another great video Jonesey. I just finished the lathe center height gauge and I am working on the tailstock die holder next. I want to do this two part vise built too, but they want 100$ just for the kit, which is more than I paid for the other two kits combined. I am not a cheapskate, but I AM broke after all the tools I had to buy to finish the last kit, so... :)
Glad you're having fun with the Hemingway Kits. Yes it's expensive, but its a big lump of iron!
Nice surface mount vice. Enjoyed!
Thanks!
Nice work.
Many thanks!
Nice project!
Thanks!
Holy crap your vids are amazing! I have no doubt in the future you will get over 100k subs if you keep this up.
Thanks! I best get to work!!
I agree 💯%
great
18:25, the problem is vibrations, the spindle wasnt steady enough while going down, if you have a feature to keep the mill fixed on a height to then use a smaller wheel on your machine that has more precision to go down it will work, if you dont have this feature on your machine. i’m sorry, nothing you can do, also for M6 thread you can just drill 6.6mm for the bolt to go through, this wont affect anything👌🏻
Thanks for the tips!
Nice build Jonesy! I'd certainly like to do one of those, if and it's a big if I actually needed a pair. Unfortunately my milling table on my Warco WMT300 lathe/mill combination machine is only 8"x6" lol. I could make a mini version I suppose. I will look into that. It would be nice if you were to do a video on the use of the D bit grinder, as I really want one of those to sharpen my dull carbide end ills and to properly sharpen drill bits.
Do it Sam! I’d love to see a mini version of this project :-) you could use blocks of mild steel for the vise bodies instead of the castings.
Nice build! But I don't think the design of that tilting vise jaw is really strong. All clamping force must be transferred from that ball to the mild steel jaw by means of (almost) a point force. That jaw will clamp less reliably at the ends because it can bend under that pressure and the ball will gouge the jaw.
Your countersinks are correct. The pilot should fit in a clearance hole and according to the tables I have, it does …
So I hear, someone else said the ISO clearance hole should be 6.5mm. I've been making mine much tighter than that.
@@joneseymakes So do I sometimes. Depends on the application, and if you want lateral stability from the bolt or not …
18:55...you could put the screw heads on the lathe and skim 1mm of their diameter...It would look much neater.
Thanks, yes I should have done that.
As stated below all counterbores (not countersink) are made to suite a clearance hole. It's a standard American slur to blame "cheap import tools" for any issues that arise during a project.
25:30, should there be some machinist jacks under those extended areas?
Yes probably I should have, but it was a very light cut on a relatively thick plate so I got away with it on this occasion
I was curious what camera you are using? It is really good for this type of vid work.
It’s a Canon R6
Rather than going to the larger endmill for the countersunk jaw screws you could have just taken a skim off the diameter of the screws in your lathe and used the first endmill.
Good point, yes I could have done that.
I would like to to see a D-Bit video. no idea if I'll ever need it, but I find this kinda of thing fascinating.
Also, just curious as to why you didn't mill the sides square?
I'll make a D-Bit video. I did consider milling the sides for aesthetic reasons but didn't get around to it in the end.
@@joneseymakes
Re: D-Bit Video - Woo!
Re: milling the sides - Okay, that makes sense. I would have also thought that you'd want them square in case you needed to use them as a reference surface. (I am not a machinist, so if I'm saying something dumb, that's why.)
@@thedabblingwarlock No that's a fair point, I should have done it really.
@@joneseymakes Cool! Glad to know I'm not a total ignoramus.😁
👍👍👍👍👍
👌👍
25:25 how do you keep that large surface from flexing down and giving you an uneven surface? I would have put another support in n the middle, even if it was a rough cut piece of stock the same height of the parallels.
Yes good call, I need to get some wider parallels for that purpose. In this case it's not a problem as I'm taking a super light skim cut and the plate was quite thick (10mm) so flexing wasn't really an issue.
Hmm i would like where one can get such a casting done.
You can buy them from here;
www.hemingwaykits.com/HK2350
Hi, I have a simple question, separate from the project you worked on - couldn't you have changed the position on your floating jaw, to mount to the "rear" face of the slide? It looks there are tapped holes on that rear face to mount the jaw there. I've done this to clamp large plates in a basic machinist's vise.
Hi, thanks for the suggestion. It know it looks like there are attachment tapped holes to do that, but you can't do that with my vise unfortunately.
@joneseymakes I have the same vice as you and keep meaning to investigate and see if I can make it work. I was thinking a mild steel jaw (I also don't have a surface grinder, but I won't use this much so should hold up) with a U shaped slot to allow it to go down over the vice jaw.
Clamping force might not be great, but it looks like it should work. Did you try it and find it doesn't?
Am just finishing up the Hemmingway tailstock die holder and wondering whether to do this kit at some point too.
Why not fix the pilot for the counterbore on the d-bit grinder?
That did cross my mind, I think I will do this.
I have this same kit, which I've yet to make, so your video is really helpful.
Can you or anyone else explain to me why Hemingway kits call this a "gack free vice"?
What does gack mean?
Does it mean hassle? Like it's a hassle free type of vice, or is it like the name of the designer of a "free vice"?
I think Gack was the name of the brand that came up with the original design for this type of vice. I could be wrong though so I'm happy to be corrected.
@@joneseymakes The original design was made by Ludwig Gack in the 1960s.
The info is on Hemingways website.
Hi "uncle Jonsey"
Why didn't you swap out to the big cutter you showed us at the start of the video ?
Good question. It didn’t occur to me at the time I suppose :-) I prefer a smaller diameter cutter when trying to get under the skin of cast iron as it can be quite hard on the cutter. Smaller cutters can be run faster on less ridged machines like mine.
Are there any US vendors for this product?
I don't know about that, I do know that Hemingway kits ships to the US if that helps?
👋👍👌👍🏻🔥
18:04
I wouldve shaved off the 0.66 on the lathe
19:12 No tenía que cabiar la mecha de fresado por una con más diametro, hubiera sido más facil reducir el diámetro de la cabeza del bulon con el torno.
Es verdad, no pensé en eso en ese momento. Gracias por el consejo.
Couldn't you just take the jaws off your original vise and put them on the back of the fixed and moving jaws? Most vises have threaded holes in the back and front of both jaws to allow you do this.
Good thinking!!
Why the heck does all those style of counterbores have the wrong diameters on the minor diameter. All of mine is wrong aswell😂😂 just use Your tool grinder to reduce them to correct diameters.
Never use card under a casting. If you need to use anything a thin piece of paper
This is something I've been thinking of doing for some time but haven't done so yet. I'm glad to have seen your video on this kit and to be honest I didn't like the kit. There just doesn't seem to be much precision in the build or the way that the work ends up being clamped by the jaws. I have seen easier builds from scratch using mild steel stock which will also work out cheaper. No reflection on your work it's just that kit isn't for me.
Fair point. It’s a pretty simple build. I’m sure you could build something similar from raw bar stock.
At 18:07,,,,they ARE NOT COUNTERSINKS!!!! they are COUNTERBORES!!! Countersinks are angled
Yes I know, brain fart on my behalf!
18 mins, counter bores
Last minute idiot check😂
Shame the casting has a boss on the fixed part, that serves no purpose. I would be tempted to machine it off.
You made something really easy complicated!
Thanks for the feedback. Please elaborate?
*_I have no clue what this guy is doing or who taught him to set up work like this. Aside from the obvious; Should have bought a KURT milling vise.... Everything he did here was as backwards as it gets. If you're going to make these table clamps, find another video that will show you proper set up._*
Thanks for the feedback. I'm entirely self taught so am bound to make mistakes and do things wrong along the way, but I'm enjoying the journey. I'm always open to learning from others that have more experience than me so if you've got any specific suggestions for how I could have done things better I'd be keen to hear them? As for the Kurt milling vise, yes I'd love one. Unfortunately they aren't readily available here in the UK and are prohibitively expensive to import as far as I'm aware. Cheers.
@@joneseymakes Joe Pie. Fixture master. On youtube. Picclick UK has a gazillion kurt vices used at good prices. Sheffield industrial tooling UK has new kurt vices.
Machining is expensive. Stop using chinese garbage. Chinese stuff is made with forced labor from north korea. These people are seperated from their families for years on end and they aren't allowed to make any money and if they escape their family in N korea are arrested. And china uses from their own dissident camps.
Would you buy products from Auschwitz? Saddly people don't seem to care because its not them that are imprisoned. Its wrong. Further, from the chinese Gov themselves, we are at war with them, so you are also supporting a hostile country engaged in actively destroying the UK.
You support this when you buy chinese garbage! If you cant afford it them maybe go into woodworking or give it up altogether.
Look. Don’t listen to this guy. He is new to machining and threw out the customary “BUY A KURT” that all rookies or purveyors of “buy American” do. He’s probably never heard of an Orange vise etc. He’s fully unaware of why you’d make a table vise and that scary since he’s probably spouting off nonsense like this everywhere. Along with those that have his comment likes.
So go a throw a Kurt or an Orange on the milling table. Kurt doesn’t make a 4 so you’ll be buying a 6 inch. A 6 inch vise on this milling machine gives you 4 inches of Y travel and about 6 inches of Z travel. Essentially cutting the dimensions on a smaller mill such as this in half.
Be careful out there. The advice you see that aligns with your political views or your inexperience is not always correct. Or good for you. Don’t be so quick to click the like button. You are most likely unaware that you’re wrong to agree with some people. Keep an open mind. And save some Z travel. And save the $800 on a Kurt vise that doesn’t work on your mill.