A Stylistic and Thematic Analysis of Fate/Zero
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
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Songs Used:
Song 1: Hyrule Castle (The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild)
Song 2: In Search of the Man in Black (Final Fantasy VII)
Song 3: Dantooine Jedi Academy (Knights of the Old Republic)
Song 4: Wish Upon A Star (Ping Pong The Animation)
Song 5: Silver Moon (Fate/Zero)
A link to the MrAJCosplay video I referred to: • Fate Zero: The Appeal ...
I just finished Fate Zero last night. Absolutely incredible.
That's awesome to hear! I love seeing people enjoy it for the first time. It isn't for everyone but it really hits home with those who enjoy that sort of story.
Your channel name 😂😂😂
in order to watch it, did you… stay… stay up all night, or one could say… stay night…?
@maxtube444 lol. But for real, I watched zero first. So the fate route anime felt like a HUGE downgrade. Especially how saber is treated. In zero, she's awesome. In fate, tarnished
Another element of greek tregedy that Fate/Zero shares is that audiences typically already knew the end going in. They knew Oedipus' fate before the play started, just as we knew who the winner (and therefore losers) of this Holy Grail War would be.
Yep, the prequel element helps with that.
And we knew who was going to die
Well, I watched Fate/Zero at first and after that Fate/Stay Night and for me, the great element, like game of thrones, was that you won't know who will succeed.
Depending on the viewer, some characters will be loved, hated or simply looked at in neutral interest, but you could not know who will eventualy go for the grail, which is why the tension is always high. In zero, you could not even win, you could only loose: your life, your idiology. Maybe the only ones who won are the ones who could either express themselves at the fullest, for example rider, or who learned a valuable lesson, for example waiver. We could even say that those too are the actual winners, because Kiritsugu had a complete mental breakdown.
Gustavo Vasconcelos true. But still I think it’s valuable to consider how the work was conceived, which is, as a foregone conclusion. And I would argue if you want to be surprised there are better genres than tragedies (although Fate Zero did a great job balancing both, I would argue as both you and I enjoyed it). People familiar with the series, for instance, would already know the grail was corrupt and for them everything would make sense in a cosmic horror story kind of way. In short you know what the characters don’t and no amount of screaming at the screen would save them. But for me (I also started with Fate Zero), it took me a while to make sense of the ending. It felt to me like Kiritsugu had to fail because Urobuchi just can’t write something happy. It felt like a bit of an ass pull because I didn’t already know what the intended audience of Fate Zero knew.
If you’re the intended audience for Oedipus, for example, you would know the ending of the story and watching the ending is not so much devastating (though it is) as it is an experience of existential terror. It’s a kind of irony. You know what the characters don’t. You get to see them believe they have a greater destiny than the deeply twisted conclusion you know they have. At some point Oedipus gets the hint that maybe something is wrong and exactly what is wrong. Everybody who knows the truth begs him not to find out the truth and maybe life can continue as it is. And you can debate it’s a flaw or not, but Oedipus doesn’t stop until he knew the horrifying truth, that the destiny that everyone, including himself tried all their lives to avoid has already been fulfilled and everything he has comes from the fulfillment of this awful destiny. Then his mother-wife commits suicide and his daughter-sisters are doomed to a life of misery. If he had stopped when everyone begged him to, would it have been better? Is it better to just pull the wool over ones eyes? And you get to see how things can turn out that way, despite everyone’s best intentions. How it is the folly of man to believe he is the master of his own destiny when there is so much he does not and cannot know. Is what Gilgamesh means when he mocks Saber to Rider: “she’s doomed. Yet she tries so hard. Isn’t that beautiful?”
I'm really getting tired of people saying Saber displayed "poor leadership". The Arthurian legend is a far more complicated story of betrayal and the likes, and King Arthur was supposedly a near-perfect king aside from some flaws of carelessness like the whole deal with Lancelot. The point of Gilgamesh's critisism (rather than Rider's) was that you can't be a perfect ruler just because you follow the path of righteousness. Humans simply don't work thay way and they will always have 'evil' inside of them.
It's natural to get tired of a view that you don't adhere to. And yeah, Gilgamesh's criticism of her was different than Rider's, though this video was never particularly interested with criticizing Saber either way.
That's true, I was just making a general statement of the way I see it. Great job on the video, very insightful.
Much thanks!
Late respond but is funny that Gilgamesh is the same king as Artoria, one's would die for their people
@@narutofox1999 Wrong, he didnt sacrifice himself for his people without expecting nothing in return, he expected a lot of them and all the people in Uruk were hard workers as well, worshiped him and he also didn't die in purpose.
He also enjoyed himself to nice things and looked to get entertained, while saber did not until finally the end.
Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because it is unreachable. Speak of conquest and demonstrate it. Favorite quote of the whole series
"To defeat, but not to destroy. To subjugate, but not to humiliate. That is a truly noble conquest."
This video healed my broken heart after the berserk hiatus announcement.
Please dont hesitate to make more Fate/Zero content and Thank you for your hard Work!
I have one more planned for the distant future, though I'm not sure I'll have any after that. Thanks for watching.
Yo don't worry Kentaro will now draw better now he isnt being forced by his editors to release chapters while the anime is coming out.
Berserk :'( Just as HxH comes back, Miura leaves us..
Aleczandxr Thats Great to hear looking forward to it.
My blood is made of Tea It really is Yeah you have a point
I wouldn't necessarily tie Nihilism to Kotomine. I think it's an overarching theme of the show but not one specific to him. Kotomine more specifically embodies nature vs nurture which isn't really an ideal but rather a social concept. Nihilism is the idea that life has no intrinsic meaning, however Kotomine spent his entire life desperately trying to understand himself and why he didn't fit in the world around him. His journey, while existential in nature had less to do with finding meaning in life in a general sense but rather asking why God created a creature such as he, cursed by his own twisted desires. This was until Fate/Zero where he fully embraced his wickedness.
Anyways that aside great video my man. I am always down for giving Fate/Zero some love.
I agree - I didn't make it clear but me boiling down each character to an ideology there was me parroting what others have said about the characters, not what I genuinely think.
Ah, I gotcha.
+Optimistic Otaku You might be forgetting the context for that part. The entire video is my thoughts, but in that specific section of the video I was drawing attention to and giving examples of a criticism of Urobuchi that other people tend to have. This was because while I don't completely agree with the criticism, it is indicative and it served as a foundation for the point I made later about F/Z's "theatre-esque" storytelling approach. If you watch that part again you'll know what I'm talking about.
Maybe this is my fangirlism speaking, but as a huge fan of Jordan Peterson I can’t help but think that Kirei’s end is partially due to his strict and black-and-white religious upbringing. He has deeply imperfect but I don’t think he’s totally evil. But through his upbringing in which he was induced to pursue the “good” above all else, he couldn’t square his darker nature with the teachings and was never introduced to a framework where the evil residing in each human was fully accounted for. As a result he didn’t understand anything about human nature. He doesn’t understand why he doesn’t feel the way the church wants him to feel. Why he can’t feel love. Why he searched endlessly for meaning, like, trying on all different fields and roles and then abandoning them, in a philosophy (a religious fanatic’s upbringing in this case) that excluded his own darkness and imperfection in its framework. This to me seems to be what Peterson means when he say, “imagine yourself as an Auschwitz guard”; it is those who never had the chance to face their inner darkness willingly who is most helpless when circumstances force them to face it. So by the end of Fate/Zero, he is so caught up in the high of feeling authentic for the first time, he totally went in the other direction.
He frankly reminds me of American teenagers who go to Germany for the first time (drinking age is 16 here) and go on binge drinking sprees, far more excessively than any German teenager- I remember distinctly being at a bar and there was a young family there, with their BABY and TODDLER, drinking beer with their friends. In America that would make a lot of people recoil in horror. Substances, around CHILDREN? No way! To Americans, alcohol was a sin, the forbidden fruit. It’s use by minors is hyped up to ridiculous degrees, whereas in Germany it is simply a fact of life that permeated everything and treated with a reasonable admonition to be careful around it. Likewise, some of the most ardent atheists and anti-theists I’ve ever met (I’ve always been secular) came from a hyper religious and fundamentalist backgrounds.
@@theproofistrivial7677 In the VN, I think they spend quite a bit of time quite explicitly stating that Kirei has always been the way he was; he was simply born that way and remained true to his nature *despite* understanding why anyone would/should pursue this "good".
This is in contrast with Kiritsugu whose course in life was basically entirely a product of a series of tragedies that befell him.
I guess I understood the message a little differently , the way I see it isn't that you should balance your ideology with realisim and rider is an excelent example of the a character who is fully defined by his ideals and isn't in fact a realist , but the reason of rider dying happy is that he never expected to actually fulfill his goal , he was more interested in the journey rather than the objective , and in fact we shouldn't strive to accomplish our goals because a dream loses all of it's value when it becomes reality rather the dream should something too big and impossible to achieve , it is this dream that never loses it's value that will always remain so important because it is unobtainable , in this case it isn't achieving the dream that matters but the progress that you make towards that dream , and since progress is a continuous process then you will always remain happy until the moment of your death , what I got from fate zero is that if we are to strive for something , then we have to only strive for the impossible while fully realising that it is impossible , otherwise if achieved the dream will lose it's value , and if it isn't achieved then the weight of disappointment will crush you
Destroctive Blade I was thinking this as well
This is a really interesting take on the message of the series and I agree with this, but Rider (+ Waver) has always been an outlier in this series. I associate this more with Rider than I do with the series as a whole and that's why it isn't the MOST prominent message for me, but it's true that the contrast between Rider's outlook and the rest of the characters may illustrate why they were left devastated. Although, differing circumstances between the characters mean that I can't really think of that message as conclusive and all-encompassing for the entire series. Maybe for Rider himself, but not everything.
the way I saw it is that the characters all fell into despair because they failed to realise what rider did , rider isn't just an outlier , he's the only one that gets it and this is why thoughout the series he was the one who was presented as the most charismatic and examplery of them to clue us that he is the one with the answers , while the rest are an example of who horribly wrong things can get if you don't unerstand this
That's essentially what I was saying when I said he was an outlier, and why I agree with you. He's the only one that gets it. The only reason that I consider the "dangers of idealization" message as more prominent is because of the slightly larger emphasis on the specific reasons behind the sorrows of Saber and Kiritsugu compared to the fulfillment for Rider. Also, because of what I know about Urobuchi as a person. But that's just my thing, and what you got from it is arguably more integrative anyway.
(To make this completely clear, I like you way of thinking here better than my own).
I love hearing your viewpoints into shows which I care about, its really interesting. I have never taken the time to go back and reflect on a show or what it meant to me. Keep up the good work I love hearing your thoughts.
Much appreciated!
With Alec, I usually don't care on whether the video is general or specific, in-depth or not, etc. I just like hearing what he has to say. It's always interesting and meaningful to me.
I watched Fate/Zero at an all time low. I was on the track team and wanted more than anything to redeem myself after a painful first term.I watched Naruto as a kid and thought that as long as I tried hard enough I could make it all work. I can still remember the nights working until 6 AM, and the look of disappointment from my coaches after I had missed a week of practice for academics. Eventually, I had to drop out for the season.
I think that's why I found so much solace in Fate/Zero. It was the reminder that sometimes the world doesn't bend to our ideals and ambitions, that sometimes we are just specks of dust in the universe. Watching the characters that I so revere like Saber, Rider, and even Kiritsugu come to that realization, in a way, gave me hope. I think it reminded me that I was not alone in the struggle with reality and that sometimes we have to accept what has happened and move on.
Great video man, helped me rationalize these thoughts. Keep up the good work.
Thanks a lot pal, and thanks for sharing. Glad you enjoyed the video and nice to see that you enjoy the show as much as I do.
madraccoon well said
madraccoon Oh boy! Wait till you see and read Evangelion.
I watched Fate/Zero under similar circumstances. I was struggling through university, sacrificing all my free time and hobbies so I could study. Some of my classes were very difficult for me and despite my best efforts there was a strong threat of failure, which, depending on the specific time-frame would either mean no acceptance into or expulsion from my target faculty. I lamented daily that my sacrifices to the future I imagined might be fruitless, as many of the characters in Fate/Zero grasped at goals out of their reach and found their aspirations crushed. Though my situation wasn't as grand, I found the conviction and subsequent despair of the characters all too evocative of my own ambitions. And I loved it.
Of course, there are other things I like about the show, but I think the above is what cemented it as one of my favourites.
I wonder if someone who has not struggled in this way can have the same appreciation for the show.
To be honest, at one moment Caster's master had a conversation about god and the meaning of life... and, while I don't say what they've done is right or anything, I could totally understand the logic behind his reasoning and even sympathize briefly with them.
..So yeah, for me all the cast was morally attachable and amibiguous.
I love Fate/Zero. I love watching stuff that is depressing... The Road is a good example.
The Road was devastating.
RantinRaginOtter The Road is depressing, but Sympathy For Mr Vengeance tops that.
omg me too. I need to watch "The Road". This is my first time hearing about it.
RantinRaginOtter Texhnolyze is the ultimate depression-fuel.
Lil B's 1000 Year Old Vans Texhnolyze kills dreams
I also see it as a story that isn't so much about promoting nihilism as it is about warning the overly idealistic. It is true that the nihilists and hedonists smile while the idealists inevitably fail, but Rider showed a perfect, happy balance, and Saber showed the beauty of idealism when she first used Excalibur.
Good job on this one.
Cheers.
It's like all extreme's. No way of thinking is utterly "right". Everything can become a detriment if taken too far. Going too far in idealism leads to being narrow minded; blind to others and not seeing the truth of what you're actually doing. Going too far into nihilism leads to apathy; that nothing has any value and it's pointless to ever put effort into something.
I love Fate/Zero. In my eyes, it is one of the perfect anime out there. The clashings of ideals and the characters interactions are just amazing.
Gilgamesh Lover DONT LOSE YOUR HYPE FELLOW GILGAMESH LOVER. READ FATE/STRANGE FAKE. it focuses on all of the masters and servants like Fate/Zero did, and it has GIL + ENKIDU (gil's first and only best friend and the only person he thinks is worthy of EA's full power. they literally go all out against each other in the FIRST chapter). fate/strange fake and fate/zero are the only things i like in the fate universe. well, ok, heaven's feel kirei is dope af too, as well as fate/grand order babylonia chapter because of what a great king Caster Gilgamesh is for the people of Uruk. y'all should play/read that too.
*sees notification of new upload*
drops literally everything to watch
Ryan Shelbaugh ikr! I was playing tekken and immediately dropped my controller
Rashad Parker
You got psn? I would love to fight a person who watches theses videos too!
RainfallHarbinger Shod_Son
I’d like to add that kiritsugu was only happy when he saved someone without killing another at the end. By expanding his idealism, he was given a semi-happy ending.
Within half a year I've watched Fate/Zero 8 times. It is the most complex and tragically beautiful anime I've seen, it's my favourite so far and nothing's seems like it's going to change. I can't move on from it. And I don't know with whom I can discuss it, since I'm so deep into it.
I loved Gilgamesh and Kiritsugu, I'm going to make a Irisviel cosplay.
Thank you for your videos, they are brilliant.
Thanks for watching. I'm happy to see that this anime is so dear to you.
I think that you should watch Kara No Kyoukoi then.
This is why I love Fate/Zero. And it made me love Unlimited Blade Works all the more.
Unlike Kiritsugu, Shirou does not abandon his dream, nor does he turn it into the hope for a miracle that makes him justify atrocities. Instead, he sets out to try and make that miracle himself, even when acknowledging it is impossible, yet refusing to fall for such horrors.
Why does he do it? Because he thinks it's beautiful. Because even if he knows that ideal is bullshit, to pursue it is a worthy cause to him.
Yeah, I'm on board with that. That's easily my favourite element of Shirou's character.
Shirou doesn't adandon his ideals? in Fate and UBW yes. Heaven's Feel? RIP ideals lmfao
@@GabbyNoctis true lol
This is why i admire Shirou. Pursueing your ideals and dreams is quite foolish, but, somehow inspiring. Not a lot of people are that headstrong and brave
@@SirFooplesTheThird But Shirou isn't a normal person. His ideals are part of him, he can't live without them. It's not really a choice for him (I mean the Shirou before going through any route).
What I took was "Don't get too focused on the results" Which also goes in line with why Rider died with a smile despite being true to his ideal, Kiritsugu was too focused on the results, too much that when he found out the true nature of the grail he was devastated by the weight of his actions
As a matter of fact, the more I think about it the more amazed I am: I'm not sure if the writer intended it or not, but the character Kotomine Kirei shares the most parallels with isn't Kiritsugu, it's Waver.
Both enter the war out of a desire to fulfill what they believe others want of them, more than any true desire. Both are mentored by servants they initially dislike, and both end the series setting out to fulfill goals related to what would truly make them happy for the first time in their lives.
... I need to overthink this show. How else will I justify the 300 Bucks I spent on the blu Ray collections. XD
My favourite scene of the entire series was the conversation between rider, Saber and archer. It made me think a lot about different things. I think it was called 'banquet of kings'.
Easily one of the best anime channels on TH-cam. Lobe the way you breakdown some of my favourite anime, keep it up 🖒
Thank you, will do!
Almost a year after your first ever video (which was on Fate Zero), we have another video on Fate Zero. :) Great job man and it's been an honor to watch you grow.
It's interesting to see how you've grown since your first fate zero videos :D
Agreed :-) The audio is much improved, at the very least..
does anyone else prefer fate/zero to unlimited blade works? its a very close call, but I feel like there was more of an emotional connection to the characters in zero
Roger Squash Fate zero is by far the Best show, much more mature themes and characters
Roger Squash most people prefer Zero
As an anime and an adaptation Fate/Zero>UBW. But UBW Visual Novel>Fate/Zero Novel or anime
Roger Squash Zero is waaaay better that UBW, doesn't mean that I didn't like it since it's still one of my favorite. Urobuchi is just a god
F/Z is so much better.
I'm just sad that Irisviel died. She was my favorite character, and its heartbreaking what happens to her.
If u consider how zero connects with the three routes... its even far more sad...
Kiritsugu never mention of irisviel to anyone after the war, especially to shirou. He didnt want him to get involved in the war or the people behind it. Owh, he intro him to magic, but only just the surface. Never actly teaching him anything solid. Insurance to shirou’s well being was avalon that was inside him.
Kiritsugu never mentioned to shirou that he had a stepmom...
But yeah. The only important people to iri that was alive when the 5th war started was illya.
Fate Zero is by far my favorite anime since you can talk about it for hours. Few anime works does this nowadays and I can't believe Urobushi did 3 of them in like 2 years. (Yes I love Madoka too) But Fate Zero is still his best work to date in my eyes.
The way you analysed their ideas is superb, I really enjoyed listening to things you have said. Not only could I compare your thoughts to mine, but also I remembered how dear this anime is to me. It was one of the first animes that I watched with more serious attitude. Of course I knew Naruto, Bleach, DBZ and some less popular ones, but Fate/Zero showed me how good and close to somebody anime could be. In my opinion, the way that characters presented in Fate/Zero act, reflect how majority of people in real life act, people tent to hold onto their ideals, becouse they lack perspective and dont want to be wrong. Kiritsugu is good example here - he wanted good, but his metods were unusual. I remember when I watched this anime for the first time - and it was before I watched Fate/Stay Night - I wanted him to succeed, I wanted him to make world a better place, but the endning left me speechless.
I agree, we should have our own views on the world, we should belive in ourselves, but we also should be able to stop, take a step back and look on everything from another perspective.
Thank you for a great video and keep up the good work! :)
This was very kind of you, thanks you. Obviously it's really interesting to hear thoughts from people who disagree, but it's always nice to see people who can relate to my way of thinking. Cheers pal, and I'm glad that F/Z means so much to you.
What I particularly enjoyed about Rider's character is that he basically *IS* a pure lump of ideals... but despite that he remains grounded and understanding of the world around him. See his reaction's to Casters workshop, or his whole 'dot on the map' monologue. Iskander comes off as understanding... of others... of the world around him... and most importantly... himself.
I think it's quite telling that he views his 'great kingdom' on the map... realizes how small it was compared to the vast world... and what does he do? He doesn't brood, he doesn't rage.... he laughs. His own 'small-ness' is something he can laugh about.
It's his understanding that lets his words to Saber at the Kings Banquet have such weight to them. Ideals themselves are great. But they should only be pursued with the mindset that they aren't achievable. Pursuing an impossible ideal with the mindset that it should be made real is where people start losing perspective. Pursuing an impossible ideal with a broad perspective that you might not ever reach the goal... but the journey (and the things gained from the journey) was worth it... is the healthiest way to approach the matter.
Both Kiritsugu and Arturia wanted true and total peace. True and total peace can never be reached. Therein lies the beginning of their tragedy. Both of them demanded something unreasonable, and the world crushed them in turn because of their delusioned goals. It's also pretty telling that in the three FSN routes, Saber is 'saved' in two of them... only by finally relinquishing the grail. Relinquishing her do-over wish. Which is basically what Rider was trying to impress on her the entire time. The journey IS the destination.
Brilliantly put.
Great video man, couldn't have said this better myself. It's always great to see this transcendant masterpiece get more attention and quality content made on it!
Thanks very much!
Wow. this video really put things in perspective for me. I've been having trouble with how I should approach some things in life and this really helped out. I appreciate it.
That's great to hear, thanks for watching.
Great video as usual, my favourite F/Z one I've seen thus far. Can't wait to see what you put out next.
Thanks!
Strangely, I was at a crossroads in my life when I watched this. In a lot of ways this anime what I needed to stop and reflect on my own self as a human. I was struggling with my own ideals and mentality at the time when I discovered this anime. It really does make you stop and think about yourself.
I HAVE NEVER CLICKED FASTER.
^_^
Catching up to your backlog of videos I haven't seen is such a treat, lol
Great video! I love how Fate/Zero makes me care and understand these characters and then tears them down in a non-cheesy way. I cry and get disgusted many times throughout the show. It also takes a master writer to not lose the audience in a complicated plot. I love Kiritsugu, because I relate to his willingness to make difficult sacrifices that are not pretty in order to achieve his goals. But, a really interesting point that I learned in this video, is how the characters without ideals were the happiest, which makes me think maybe I shouldn't judge myself or other people as harshly.
Easily my favorite anime of all time, I wish it impacted me as much when I watched with a friend some years ago but man. Hearing Kiritsugu's redpilling Saber of the futility in honor and chivalry on the battlefield gave me chills. Incredible anime, I love the clash of ideas in both ficitional and real world settings.
It's incredible how you put so many of my thoughts about the show in a digestible manner, I strive to be able to do it myself one day. Awesome video.
Thanks very much for watching, I’m glad you got something valuable out of it.
This is legit one of the best videos I've seen on Fate/Zero.
I appreciate that, thank you.
Just finsished watching this and geez, I hate having watched this at 14 yrs old everything you said basically went over my head.
Fate zero is one of my favorite anime of all time. I love tragic irony when done well. Maybe that is because I am greek and since a young age I have been exposed to ancient greek tragedy.
This video was great, keep up the good work man! Despite being someone with no ambition, Fate Zero was personally fascinating to me due to all the diverse ways of thinking that allowed me understand the characters and myself through the lense of tragedy.
Thanks very much!
Can you make a video about Kara no Kyoukai?
I'm not really interested in doing one, sorry. There are a few good ones about it out there already though.
YES THIS VIDEO IS BACK great video btw
Very good analysis once again, my friend! I'm glad you used the first part of this video to set the foundations of the Ancient Greek Tragic structure and literary tradition inherent within FZ, I think that's a vital starting point to truly deconstructing what the story evokes and the major themes it presents to us (and plenty of people have indeed already made the links and talked a great deal about how FZ works as a Greek tragedy, including the video you showed and even Urobuchi himself to some extent I believe).
I'm glad you went beyond that into your own take on what we can get out of FZ, though, because I think we once again feel rather similar about the messages that the show gives the audience, and the interpretation we're meant to draw from what occurs to all the characters, the meaning behind the tragedy and nihilism that is presented to us. I think it's definitely a tale about idealism, and about the temperance of ideals in the fires of tragic loss, you hit the nail on the head with that outlook, at least for me. I think, at its core, FZ presents opposing ideologies so effectively precisely because it makes them all extreme versions of the ideal, and basks in a certain relativity that avoids having any one be superior to the other. This clash of ideals accentuates the extremism that was already there in the characters and their beliefs (you mention how the context helps in this, which is spot on, the Holy Grail War is what allows for this emphasis on extremism), which drives the point of being too blindly idealistic home when it all comes crashing down. It's a fantastic counterweight to the more positive outlook on idealism found in the overall body of work in Stay Night across the three routes, a more mature, pragmatic and philosophical take on how ideals can be shattered, corrupted, or misleading in execution.
Ultimately, FZ strives to portray the dangers of a tragic adherence to an ideal no matter what, until the realization comes too late, and the fall is already inevitable. It's particularly fitting for a show called "Fate," after all, since Greek tragedy also revolved around the inability to fight fate even while it simultaneously delineated the importance of choice (a wonderfully poignant dichotomy that FZ utilizes very well as a great Greek tragedy should, due to its structure). Urobuchi took the main theme of idealism from FSN and infused Greek Tragedy so well into the mix that it added a great deal of nuance to the theme, and really allowed it to potently resonate, for me (and for you too, obviously). Urobuchi even uses this core ideal to then touch on other complex and meaningful subjects and themes, like that of warfare and blind trust in miracles (both of which you mentioned, which was awesome! I especially loved how you included the entire dialogue between Kiritsugu and Saber, that is one of the best exchanges in the show and one of personal favorite quotes in the medium generally!).
Well done again, this was great!
God damn, your comments are so eloquently put that they make my videos seem better than they actually are! Haha. But in all seriousness, I totally agree. As important as Nasu was to F/Z, Urobuchi's print is all over the themes in here. As opposed to how some think of his stuff as dark and desperately depressing, largely emphasizing hopelessness and such, he actually tends to be a man of equilibrium; championing the notion that any extreme is detrimental. A few have commented saying that they simply can't like this show because it spits in the face of hope and ideals, etc, etc and I think that's a shame, because that isn't the point. At least, not for me. Ah well, I digress. And of course, I had to include that quote; it's such a brilliant exchange. Thanks again!
Awesome video! Definitely one of my favorite analysis of Fate/Zero. I love that you included the "A knight cannot save the world" scene. It's my favorite scene in the show and I think perfectly embodies the show's theme of conflicting ideals and how strong the characters hold on to their own.
Something I would like to add is how much I love the dynamic between Kirei and Kiritsugu. Throughout the show they continuously ponder on each other's motivations based on their behavior, recognizing each other as the main threat. Yet, when they finally meet each other at the final battle they don't speak to each other at all until the battle stops after the ceiling crashes down. After seeing characters throughout the show debate their ideals with each other, battle after battle, these two fight without a word. All their inner monologue was "what tools do we have, how do I kill him, how do I not get killed by him". Even though they both had their reasons for wanting the grail, and questioned each other the whole show, it's like they threw all of that out in the heat of the moment and became truly realistic for the sake of survival and victory, and I love how it contrasts with the rest of the show.
i think saber knew her ideals were flawed, but shouldered them in a sense of duty towards them, like something she owes to the beloved kingdom she sees as having failed. she looks in horror when rider points out the flaws in her ideas but she is unable to deny them, because she herself knew her ideals were flawed but hid away that fact and fought to achieve them in an effort to save her kingdom and her knights.
Before watching this show I was completely in saber's position on most things but by the end of the show i alligned more with rider's line of thinking, interestingly i never quite understood Kiritsugu's line of thinking i still believe in the concept of honor, i believe you can't sink into doing anything in war,if you don't have honor what seperates humanity from beasts?
oh man, this channel is just such n gem
congrats. on hitting 40k ! It's been a pleasure to watch your content. and your channel grow 😁
Thanks so much :)
This is a fantastic, well put together masterpiece of an analysis for this series. I especially love your final points about having a balanced mindset toward life. Thank you for making this. I really enjoyed hearing your perspective on what you believe the story wants to say to its audience. You presented your points extremely well and I feel like I learned a great deal watching this. Keep up the great work. :D
That's lovely to hear, I'm glad you got something out of it. Thanks for watching!
Aleczandxr You're very welcome. Great work deserves praise. Keep it up. :)
Oh my God I live for your videos!!! Perfect way to prepare for Apocrypha. Will you review the hxh chapter(s) ?
I won't be doing chapter reviews, no. But if some big event or story sequences occur that I think are worthy of a video then I'll do it for sure.
Aleczandxr not even tweets to express your initial reaction?? btw have you watched Titans season 2
Well, yeah. I'll always tweet my impressions on the new chapters (and I already did talk about the new one), so follow up if you're interested! And yes I have.
There's new chapters?
You're definitely correct about Urobuchi's stories being more about an external point of view than relatability.
Yep, and it's an interesting tradeoff. It's somewhat refreshing to see something that doesn't explicitly try to be relatable.
Automatic up for a new video! Starting to watch Mob Psycho 100, I'll start this after watching RE: Zero next.... Keep'em coming!!!!
Ever thought of making a separate video for Kiritsugu? I feel like he's one of the most underappreciated main characters in anime.
I’ve already talked about him in a video.
Aaaallright *stretches fingers* so...
I don't really feel conflicted watching any of these people with their different ideologies and thoughts battle it out. Honestly most of the stuff they're talking about is simplistic - which is suitable and understandable considering who's saying what.
Coming from times when hereditary transferral of power would be not only normal, but a tradition enforced by the power elite for hundreds, thousands of years, one would probably be of the opinion 'the people need a king'. And then what type of circumanstances surrounding the individual would of course decide the stance on what type of leader is the proper one.
Alexander was charismatic and won battles like an aimbot in Counter-Strike - military leaders like him throughout history such as Charles XII, Napoleon, Julius Caesar etc. seem to all have some basic things in common. Charisma, military leadership and a 'knowing' that they were meant to lead. Arthuria and Gilgamesh are both fictional, but their mythology is built up in such a way that the three conflicting ways of thinking around kingship all lean on - and can't compromise with - each other, giving a framework for those three's interaction with each other and everyone else.
Now, as someone living today with democratically elected leaders, it's easy to puncture the whole balloon of absolute monarchy - how corrupt, unequal and unjust it is. Those three characters are in a way simple, but with... what, 15 characters (?), it has to be. Juggling all of these people, trying to make them entertaining as individuals reacting to each other, is difficult in itself. The microcosms of different narrative concepts being portrayed within this pretty kick-ass and aesthetically wonderful battle is just really fucking cool. The real tragedy to me is the guy who fights for someone else, endures horrible pain for it but still loses, goes crazy and kills his long-held crush after she believes he murdered her husband - then dies knowing he failed. All the other people have SOMETHING positive going for them at some point, even Kiritsugu manages to at least save and raise Shirou, not to mention he's saved a bunch of people in the past.
I don't feel depressed about it, because it's WELL DONE. So many (attempted) tragedies fails for one of two reasons - either it's poorly executed or it's ONLY depressing, and so depressing that it's actually just self-torture to watch. I despise that sort of storytelling. Fate/Zero to me is about hope - everyone's fighting for a hope, most of them fail, there's one guy who is absolutely ground into the dirt, then just like real life - the win is sort of askew because nothing is really as simple as anyone thinking in black and white would think.
Fate/Zero doesn't make me melancholic or depressed, it makes me exhilarated!
That fate zero it shows that just because you have good intentions for achieving a goal does not guarantee that you will succeed an example is that guy who failed to save Sakura
The problem with other anime is nonsensical stuff like plot armor, ass pulls and deus machine. Those things ruin the enjoyment
Wow that dub sounds really good i think i'll give it a watch
It's one of my favourite dubs. Terrific quality IMO, one of the better ones I've heard.
Watching this and comparing it to your previous videos on Fate/Zero shows how much deeper and technically better your work has become in the course of just one year. Congratulations on your progress and keep on growing. I can't imagine how profound you'll be next year if you keep up this pace!
Lol, thanks pal. There's no guarantee that I'll be able to exponentially improve but I'll put in the effort!
I love that message at the end. Very beautiful.
Are you trying to make me watch it again. Well i guess third time's the charm.
Success!
I love Kariya and his character i wish he was at least mentioned in the heavens feels movies. knowing there about the girl he attempted to save.
His character didn't exist by the time heavens feels was being developed as a story.
"How could you get so much out of such a depressing story?" Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, etc. all huge all around the world. Why should anime not be able to have stories like that as well?
You're preaching to the choir, my dude.
Anime have many stories. Just you are oblivious to it.
keep making videos like this. This is what makes the anime community great
That's very nice of you to say!
Have you ever thought of making a video on Fate Stay Night? I think it's just as interesting, and that it contradicts Fate Zero in a more optimistic and hopeful way.
What you said at the end is why I love Emiya Shirou, he does what none of the characters did, and that's reevaluate and reconsider his ideals with a hint of realism, he knows they're flawed, he knows their impossible to reach, but found beauty in the path of following the ideal, instead of trying to reach it to pure perfection. He found joy in saving people, and didn't view it as some sort of goal to reach through unconventional means like Kiritsugu did.
That's just me anyways :P
I haven't seen Stay Night, so no. I've seen UBw though, but I won't be making a video on it because I really don't have much to say about it. I'm just not passionate about that story and I feel like that would come through in a video.
Aleczandxr What is your opinion on UBW by the way? Because I see a lot of comparisons here ):<
You should read the VN tho, it's amazing :)
UBW was pretty good and entertaining, with some neat ideas, but the execution was poor. You can check my MAL entry on it if you want slightly more detail. And sorry, but I'm just not interested in the VNs at the moment!
Alright then. Nice video by the way!
It reminds me about Shirou's character arc in fate stay night.
In fate route, it is clear from the start that Shirou is empty from inside. He just copies everything of Kiritsugu to feel pleasure in his life and feel happy again. It is clear when he came the contact with the corruption of holy grail. He didn't able to comprehend the pain and suffering of humanity.
In ubw, he understands his true nature that he is just empty husk. He understands that he just uses ideals for his escape. He just became the shell of ideals just like Kiritsugu who lives in his ideal and dies in it. He understands that his true reason of this ambition to save everyone is root from his love toward humanity. He rejected every ideals and understand that his true objective is to create a world where everyone understand the shared emotions and feelings of every human beings. He just accepted his reality of approaching this dream not with ideals but with reality but also not by throwing our own humanity but by understanding each other's emotions. It doesn't mean that it will create a perfect world but it does create a result which is a better world or paradise for small period of time but in the end journey is reward itself not final results. He will accept both despair and hope of humanity to learn from despair and create hope before falling into our despair and mistakes again. It means we should learn from criticism. The best example is how he again fall into the suffering and despair of humanity through Archer's memory which is similar to Grail's corruption but he learn from it not succumbed by it.
In heaven's feel, he completely embraces this idea because of the friction of his ideal abd reality. He completely accepted the humanity and started to care what are precious to them. Their emotions and their loved ones but also understanding this same shared emotions and feelings between every human beings. He understands them from the deepest struggle and suffering of them. What they truly desire? He accepted everyone and sacrifice them for what he considered the most precious thing in his life as accepting it like real human being.
Fate Zero is easily my favorite Fate series. I rewatched it and enjoyed it as much as the first time. I love how it delves into the different ideologies of what a good king should do.
The fact that the music from the fields of Dantooine from KOTOR was the backdrop to this video was bizarrely distracting.
A crash course on Greek Tragedy, nice
stay night fan? 💀
well made video bro👌
Cheers.
Aleczandxr ✌😊
One of these days I do want to see Saber vs Lancer though. I'll be waiting for that glorious battle.
Supposed to be at my friends wedding but I saw this video so I told him sorry bro gonna miss it. Priorities.
0_o (I'm honored)
Cried my eyes out when the one nerdy kid found riders t shirt left behind
Always excited for one of your videos.
Always glad to see you comment :)
Another great video as always.
Cheers.
Almost 100% of all existing greek tragedies are criticisms of excess (hubris) and an advocation of moderation. Lmfao i cannot believe i didn't realise this in Fate Zero. Anyways great video!!!
Thanks!
I actually watched several episodes of this show and I really like it
i just binged the whole show in two days and now i just feel sad and depressed. i’m gonna go back to my isekai op mc fantasy world shows to heal myself
Oh I almost forgot about this anime even though I was so hyped when I first watched it.
And ping pong music in the background was confusingly fitting ._.
kiritsugu is the best
glad your videos are back
The story of Fate zero is absolutely awesome, and the analogy of it being comparable to an almost textbook definition of a Greek tragedy is, to me, right on the mark.
This channel just keeps getting better
I'm so glad I discovered your channel.
Me too :-)
=D
At least FZ had depth to it. FUBW was all about shiny fights. Happy that FZ was my first fate series.
Excellent video. Finished Fate/Zero a couple weeks ago and loved it.
Love your videos.
Can I ask where your "The Heart of Fate Zero" about Rider and Wiver has gone?
I love that video and really want to rewatch it. 🙏🏻
I love me some fate zero one of my all favorite series each time I re watch it I learn about the series and by watching this video it's making want to re watch again
Well done. I loved the Greek tragedy approach to Fate/Zero and how the concept worked so well with the other narrative device.
Cheers.
can't believe that i youtube didn't notify me about this!!! gr8 upload as always thank you! great ending to the video woulda been perfect if manten started playing.
I agree, but Manten is the exact type of song that's get the video claimed :-( So I tend to stay away from stuff like that. By the way, I've started NieR!
absolutely great as usual, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
I'm actually upset you taught me about tragedy plays more easily than my college course did
i wish i knew more shows like this
Nice examination of what the story is conveying, well done.
Cheers.
Thank you Aleczandxr. As a new student of International Relations, I've watched various videos of yours several times. And by so doing, I have been able to appreciate Fate/Zero times after times of re-watch.
You're welcome, glad to help.
@@Aleczandxr If you have the time, I would very much recommend you a game called The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky. There are 3 chapters for this game and I found it quite appealing when it comes to story and music. The graphic is 2.5 D (Top view). And my favourite OST from this game is The Whereabouts of Light and Silver Will.
Wow I never thought about how tragic most of fate zero was when I first watched it Fate stay night ubw had just ended and I saw our protagonists have their happy ending and sorta forgot what had happened in fate zero. Now I really want to rewatch it.
This helps explain why I liked it so much
I realize I'm late to this, but honestly, even with how things end for Saber, Lancer, Kiritsugu, and even Karia, I'm not convinced they were wrong. What they fought for, their goals, I don't think I can discount them. Their methods may not have brought about the result they wished for, and maybe ideals are always out of reach. Still, even if perfection, or Utopia is unattainable, I think we can still strive to move ever closer to it. A journey towards ideals that seeks perpetual improvement...I guess this is why I relate heavily with the Emiya men.
Your critical analysis is so good. I like F/Z more from listening to your analysis. Keep on doing this great stuff mate!
Thanks so much!
Came to this video after some time I watched F/Z, it became one of my favorite stories ever a couple months ago because of its realism and great character ideologies which made me think a lot about it. I do not see many F/Z videos nowadays and it really is sad, so I am glad that guys like you comment on it and show people why it actually is great.
When you talked about how none of the characters realize their ideals are flawed I thought of the conversation Shirou has with Archer in Stay Night where he says that he realizes that his ideals are flawed but he'll follow them anyway
Yep, he bucked the trend. I liked that self-awareness.
This anime may be depressing and dark, but it's not some Zack Snyder nonsense. This show is so brillantly written. Thanks for this video, I might try to watch Fate/Zero again soon.
No problem, I agree. Thanks for watching.
Even Guilles de Rais (caster) had his moment of realization of the error of his ways, seeing Joan beckoning to him moments before his death as he gets out the words "What have I...". The man's story and what twisted him into what he'd become was almost sympathetic, were it not for the child killing. It shoots right to tragic when you realize the crimes attributed to his real world counterpart were likely fabricated, with confessions coming out under torture. He was too powerful to simply grab and burn at the stake like peasent girl Joan of Arc, they had to get creative.