The 30-06 is 115 years old. Has served in continuous battle grounds since 1906 and has killed everything that walks and some things that no longer walk on this planet. From your list the only cartridges that appear to be older is 22lr, 30-30, and 45-70. Talk about a testament to design.
There’s nothing magical about the design. If the US government had adopted the 6.5 Swede we’d all be fiercely loyal to that and bow in reverence to it. After a few decades, the tradition becomes self-reinforcing. Why do I know this is true? Because that’s exactly what is true in the Northern European countries where hunters adopted the Swede.
@@G5Hohn …. After being on the receiving end of Spanish 7x57mm the US Army took it and supersized it to 7.62x63mm. Which is how we got the .30/06 cartridge.
@@Idahoguy10157 Exactly. There's nothing magic about the design, as it's a supersized 7mm Mauser copy. Right down to the bolt face and rim specs. Tradition. Stick with what works. Think how many rimless designs are out there now that use that exact same boltface/rim diameter. It's self-reinforcing.
Dang it. Rewatched the video and noticed an error. I said only 3% of shots are past 500 yards. Not true. Some of the respondents hadn't shot a big game animal yet, so they should be removed. Actually, it's 4.2%. I may never forgive myself.
At 5:10 you may have a 2nd error. You mention your threshold of 1900fps at 500 yards, which will be a huge leap for me and possible some other viewers, but then you state 1900ft.lbs. Why a huge leap? Take a Hornady ELD-X for example, it can expand as low as 1600fps. (Peterson Hunting - Going Long Range With Hornady's Versatile ELD-X)
Id absolutely love to see a projectile review and comparison with say a 7mm rem mag. At the end of the day your rifle is only as good as the projectile you sent at the deer, and at 7mm velocities you can get some wacky stuff happening. Could do categories like : penetration, Expansion, BC, Cost, I personally run nosler 160gr accubonds, but at $2 a projectile it’s steep. I’d love to see how an ELDX stacks up. If it has 90% the penetration for 50% the cost id definitely switch.
IMO this guy has the most logical and well thought out video's on youtube for hunting/shooting. Keep them coming, let me add this, I live in Colorado and have successfully hunted big game every year since I was a teenager in the late 70's in three western states. I've owned a 260, 7-08 definitely kills faster, my wife and son have killed a truckload of deer/antelope/elk with it and I've killed a dozen or more with it as well. I keep going back to the 6.5's, started out in life with a 264wm, then to the 260, 7-08, 7saum, 300saum and currently using a 6.5prc. My hunting partner uses a 270wsm, very impressive. My observations and opinions, 6.5's shine the brightest in the wind, nothing beats them when it's howling. 264wm is awesome but the barrel life is to short and I don't care for long action rifles anymore. 260 kills good but often times it's difficult to tell right away if the shot is fatal or even see a reaction from a fatally hit animal. 7-08 kills way better than it looks like it should but the bullets blow around in the wind pretty bad at long range. 7saum is to much for even big mule deer, I've ruined both shoulders and upper loin with a heart shot on a big mule deer, great elk cartridge. I sold the 300saum, kicks to hard, poor trajectory, doesn't do well in the wind. I've only shot a couple of deer and antelope with the 6.5prc, it's not a 264wm but close enough on deer and antelope, remains to be seen how it will do on elk. The 270wsm is a star in this category, a little to much for antelope but deer and elk it's probably as close to perfect as one could get. I'm currently experimenting with the 6mm arc, plan on taking a doe and buck antelope with it and a whitetail doe2021 {limiting the size to 135lbs and smaller animals} it's a small cartridge.
Good analysis. Needing a lighter rifle than my 1962 Model 70 300 Weatherby, I am looking at 7mm-08 & 260. 243 & 25-06 bullets too light. Settling in on 7mm-08, & you nudged me closer. Now, as for the light weight rifle . . .
@SickCall Ranger Red deer is the most common. There are some sika, sambar, fallow, whitetail and a few pockets of elk . There's chamois and thar in the Southern Alps. Plenty of pigs All are introduced. New Zealand had no mammals prior to human habitation approx 800 - 1,000 years ago. All of the species that I mentioned above were introduced in the last 150 years approx, apart from one species of pig that came earlier with Maori settlers.
@SickCall Ranger Exactly as MrTimmu67 said. Sambar, Fallow, Red and Sika inside a shortish drive from my house but laws aimed at punishing landowners that allow hunters make it very hard to get access to any of them.
I went to my gun shop here in Oz yesterday looking for something in .7-08. Nothing. My buddy who works there said that no one is importing them to Australia anymore because of the 6.5 Creedmore. I felt super sad man hahaha
In the Marine Corps, our rifle qualification with iron sights was 200/300 and 500 yards. For fun, we would fire at 800 yards. It's amazing that a .556 round can accuratly hit a body sized target in a group at 800 yards and no optics (early 1990's).
@@bradhaines3142 Well there’s that little issue with being able to identify who your shooting as well 😂. Don’t want to mistake a line of fleeing civilians for a line of troops walking through a valley.
I’ve been shooting a 6.5x06 for. Over 20 years a 95 grain v max is 600 m yote buster to date that and my Swede I don’t see any plus in the creed and I can push 160s in both for black bear 140 and below 129 I don’t see the ballistic difference
Really interesting! Kind of funny. When I started thinking about shooting big game back in the mid 1980's my buddies dad said " Go get an 30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag in a Remington Model 700. You will never need another rifle unless you head to Alaska... He was right then and it looks like he's still right..!
Or any of a couple of dozen other good old cartridges. Animals are no tougher than they've ever been and the old standards still get the job done. The new stuff is fun to play with but no more effective.
Man, you guys at Backfire really break this stuff down into ways even an amateur newbie shooter could understand. You guys are doing some things differently than many others and doing it well. Very much appreciate your videos.
If you are truly interested in learning about lightest recoil deer cartridges, research the 257 Roberts and the 7x57 Mauser. Both were missing from this list.
You have an AWESOME channel dude! Thanks for what you do. You are a great addition to this great community. If it makes you feel any better, ty is demonitising all gun channels. You didn't cross any specific line
Hmmm, my 270 Win makes the HITS list at 1004, and using my favorite hunting factory ammo, 143 ELDX lists 500yd energy at 1567, velocity at 2206 fps. I'm not sure which ammo you were listing to get your data. If your averaging bullets and load info into one number, that's a little like saying-if I have my left hand in boiling water and my right hand in ice water, then on average I'm comfortable. It might be more relevant to use the most popular deer cartridge in each caliber, and the most popular Elk cartridge in each caliber. Great video. Love your channel and videos. Keep 'em coming.
This is a great list and effort, but it's fuzzy by definition, especially at the cut-offs. If I were Elk hunting, I would use my .270 with a proper loading for Elk, and if confronted with a shot longer than 500 yards, I'd be mindful of the limitations.
We wouldn't have anything to talk about if we just used what works. Boring old 30.06, 270 Win, 308. My hunting party took 3 elk this year all with 270 with 150 partition. Non went further than 40 yards.
Laughing all the way with a 6.5x55 - (and given the scalability of loads in this category - through 140 and 156 grain certainly makes it a nice alternative).
@@PaulVerhoeven2 I’m loading in a modern action. No pressure at all. No cratered primers no ejector Marks and no heavy bolt lift. Took all the way to 2875 with 140 grain Bergers out of a 20 inch barrel. My creed the best I have done with 140’s is 2700ish with 22 inch barrel.
@@altruisticscoundrel I bought my CVA Hunter in 45-70 for $200, and that is my deer rifle, since I can only use straight walled case cartridges, or shotguns. I used to use a Marlin 1894 44mag, and before that a S&W 686 357mag.
Nice vid. I love looking at the numbers for different rounds. For anybody interested, I found the formula Hornady uses to calculate HITS: HITS = (W^2 / 7000) * (V/D^2) / 100 where HITS = Hornady Index of Terminal Standards W = Weight of the bullet in grains. V = Impact velocity of the bullet in feet/sec. D = Diameter of the bullet in inches.
I sold all my magnums a long time ago. The 7x57 (or the 7mm-08) and the .45-70 will do everything I need to do without beating me up in the process. In the 7mm's, a 150 grain Partition will easily reach 2700 fps, and I use Trapdoor level loads with cast bullets in the .45-70. Neither of these are 'long-range' cartridges, but where I live 200 yards is a long shot indeed.
Sweet! Great cartridges. At 200 yds you got venison. IMHO shooting animals too far away is unethical. I cringe when people brag about shooting critters past 300 yds
@@Idahoguy10157 I'd probably choose the .338-06 over the 9.3x62, mostly because of a better bullet selection. The .35 Whelen would also be a valid choice.
Very interesting. Adding the average barrel life and average costs per shot could put the list in perspective. The number of shots could go up fast: training, handloading tests, targets, and hunting use. That changes likely the perspective. Especially the "RUMs" versus the “efficient cartridges” like the 308 or 7mm-08. The best cartridge misses if 1) the hunter firing it did not practice or 2) does not have the funds, or 3) - especially for the preppers under us - just does not want to swap barrels every 3K shots. Very good list, but the barrel wear and cost would make it even more perfect. Thanks for the overviews! Nice work.
Thank you for finally doing a scopes video!! Also thanks for the content. If it's me as a new shooter, I'm buying a gun that shoots 270 win. My research shows it's good enough to kill a deer or elk, as well as the kick isn't too bad. THanks again!!
The 270 Win is an incredible cartridge. Ammo is (was lol), always available anywhere you go. It’s pretty much the best deer 🦌 cartilage available. Recoil is not bad at all. Get a Tikka, and put it in a GRS stock, and you’ll good as gold.
The .270 Win is not optimal as an all-around rifle because the twist rate is generally too slow for the heavier bullets that you would want to use for elk or moose. If you are a large person, a 7mm Rem Mag would be better (higher velocity). If small, a 7mm-08 is probably better. The .270 is great for mule deer and big horn sheep in the Rockies, but those other two calibers will take them just as well.
Great video. As a handloader there is a lot to be said for the 6.5 Creedmoor and it's all around performance with only 40 grains of powder more or less and with the cost of components and ammo these days that's something. That being said IMHO the answer to your statements on lower recoil and terminal performance is my all time favorite, the 270WSM. Plenty of power for anything that walks except maybe a Grizz, it's not bad on the shoulder, is VERY accurate and does it all with 60 grains of powder or less. There's a lot to like there with the 270WSM.
Your post in reverse. I went from 270wsm to 6.5cm mostly based on recoil and multiple surgeries on a torn rotator cuff. Add to that the cost and then the availability of factory ammo and the 6.5cm has taken its place for those 3 reasons.
@Packman A few years back it started getting a bit of a hipster reputation for some reason. As though the people shooting it chose it over .308 just to be different. It also gets overshadowed by the bigger 7mm rounds in long range precision since it can't sling the heavy 165+ bullets as well as a 7mm Mag and the like.
@@jamesreeder8917 its around a 6ft hold to account for drop my, misses hunts with the 7mm-08 she dropped a cow elk at 340yds last season. I was impressed by the 7mm-08
I think its just over looked cuz of the constant new wild cats being pushed all the time now. We already made most of our best performers long time ago. 4Some reason, people don't want tried n true. They want the fancy new this or that to sound like a pro joe at the range. Just how I feel. So many awskme rounds that get over looked ,like they are old news. Idk, the 25.06 got it all over the new 6.5cm in most conditions even at pretty long range. For hunting.. not paper.. But you never will hear that by marketing. On
Great video and great idea about your back yard and scopes! Also, so glad you mentioned doing a video on 7mm-08. I truly enjoy loading for my 7-08. It’s not overwhelming ballistics wise, but very efficient. Love whitetail hunting with 140 loads. I chuckle when I hear people say it’s a great “youth” cartridge. They don’t understand efficiency. Thanks
The 160gr Sierra Tipped MatchKing I hand load for my Weatherby is still traveling above 2000fps and 1530 ft-lbf at 400 yards. And it’s a pleasure to shoot. I’m amused by the diehard .308 fans I’m friends with that scoff at the 7mm-08.
A lot of guys hunt with the 6.5 Grendel out of an AR-15. With rounds like that you can't practically reach out to 500 yards but most people don't need to shoot that far. There are so many variables when choosing your cartridge, pick whatever makes you happy because that's why you're shooting in the first place (hopefully).
Hum well I don’t know where it comes from that it take 1,000 lbs of kinetic energy to take a white tail deer. I’ve learned over the years it’s 600 ft lbs for deer, 800 for mule deer, and 1,000 lbs for elk and around 1,200 for moose. Each type of bullet also expands at different velocity’s. Whether or not it’s a bonded type bullet or a jacket hollow point or a VLD type bullet. For instance my Berger VLDs only need 1300 FPS to expand. Hornady ELDs need 1600 FPS. Well that’s what’s on the box anyway. It is a good video and your are helping with what people need to look for in a bullet and caliber rifle that is needed for a humane kill. This is a good thing.
The content of this channel is so unique and interesting, even to someone like me who doesn't shoot rifles very often. And I can tell you guys are having FUN making these videos, and that always makes content more enjoyable when you know the content creator enjoys making it. Keep up the good work!
During some 50 years of elk hunting, my .348 Win. 71 has taken 5, very big western Washington elk on the Olympic Peninsula. Love that cartridge/rifle combo.
I had to chuckle at your final choices! I have a 700 BDL DM Remington 7mm REM Mag, Tikka T3X Laminate stock stainless barrel .270 and wooohooo a Tikka T3X Synthetic stock stainless barrel in 7mm-08. Not bad I picked 3 of your top 5 for my collection of rifles. I enjoy your TH-cam show and wish you success in your endeavors! Great work and very informative!
Good luck trying to find ammo in these new exotic calibers. I can always find .308 and .270 ammo on the shelves and even .30-06, but I've yet to see 6.5 Creedmoor ammo on any shelf, and that round has been around for many years, just as I rarely see a box of .35 Whelen, and even the .300 Savage is at times scarce. But, then, I'm not in gun stores every week.
Cool video, a few of my favorites made the cut! My 7x57 and 270Win made the deer cut and for elk, the 30-06 and 7RM! It was great to see that these old warhorses were able to keep up with the new hi-tech/sci-fi laser beams!
Started my boys with a 6.8 spc in an AR-15 for deer. Nearly zero recoil, good energy to 300 (all their shots have been inside of 200) 120 gr SST kills everything we shoot with it. Deer, pigs, coyotes... The 6.5 grendel is great too.
Unfortunately, my dad disliked the .30 06 I advised him to get because of recoil. I'm not a recoil fan either, but handed down to me I found out how truly wonderful this caliber is for a handloader.
I thought MULEKICKER & I were the last 2 '06 users on the planet... I have no qualms about the 30-06 & it's efficacy on darn near anything... Culling cape buff, it's the preferred cap, 220 grain cupro nickel FMJs, @ 2400-2500 fps. Excellent penetration. If you're shooting 20 + rounds in an hour, the recoil threshold is a real issue. Bad shots get you stomped, chomped or both. Bottom line, the pill has to be accuratley placed, period. Note, backup rifle ON STATION, NO MATTER WHAT. I LIKE 2, A SXS .470(mines a sweet old rifle my great uncle won on a bet in the 30s, he was a market hunter in Michigan... ), and a pre 64 Model 70 in .375 H&H. Next big bore, a RUGER M77 GUIDE GUN in .375 RCM, or .416 RCM/ REM, 20" TUBE, basically a MODEL 70, laminate stock, bead blasted/ green parkarized finish. Just a solid rifle, totally reliable, accurate a plenty, balanced, the best stock lines for a HEAVY- HEAVY bolt gun... I'm gonna get two; an '06, and the .416 RCM... LOVE MY 06s... Trained thru DCM on the caliber out 1000 yards, and I shoot year round. I use a USMC ARMORERS LOAD RECIPEs I was given by a mentor, but the new powders & bullets are really what upped the '06s stats... Trophy Bonded Best laws,165,180& 200 grainers, plus, some 220 grain WW slugs I pulled outa ammo from my parents mercantile from the 50s, just to use that cupro nickel FMJ frieght train... Throw in some BARNES ORIGINAL 250 grain SPs, whatcha Whatcha want(more)... Gotta shoot straight, still.
I love the 30-06. I think it just falls into a weird area where it does everything you need a cartridge to do. I think the reason why people don't cling on to it is because they look at it like it's a "Fudd" cartridge. How they are so wrong.
@@cchcch-jw9dw If that means not being the latest reinvention of the wheel, you're right. I don't see where we're so much better off with the newer cartridges than we already had some years ago.
Very well made video, I really enjoyed it. I have had great success on elk with the 6.5 Creedmore. I shoot the Barnes 127 LRX hand-load at 2,830 fps and I get complete pass throughs with great terminal effects. All my shots were right around 300 yards and all elk didn’t go further than 25 yards. Everyone who hunts with me said the 6.5 was too small for elk and now they don’t say that anymore. With that said, I would not use 6.5 with a lightly constructed bullet.
I love those barns lrx 127s I'm running them in a 26 nosler at 3550 fps out of a 26" barrel it absolutely smashes stuff I picked up 165 pcs of 1s fired brass for 1 $ each so that rifle is set for a while and picked up 400 of the lrx bullets that rifle will be set for a season or so.
Recoil matters. Good analysis. Makes sense. There’s a reason why so many people love the Creedmoor. Interesting that 6.5 mm topped the list for both deer and elk.
If u can’t shoot a 300 w m. Don’t that simple 28 nosler ? Vs 7 mag I can load a 7 mm 08 w 160 to 2650 bang flop u name it and mine shoots 120 s 130 to 3 k just like the .270
Considering your 6.5prc checked all those boxes, you should have made an honorable mention to what was directly above and below, those rifles and ammo are more available and cheaper, and have been killing it for a long time. All hail the beloved 308 & 7mm-08.
Yes, he's doing an apples to apples comparison on specific criteria with average bullets and average rifle weight. People should view this list as a starting point for decision making, not a finish. For example, to say a 7mm08 is insufficient for elk, well there are lots of factory loadings that will hit all the criteria at 400 yards, which might be all some people need. Or handload to hit all the criteria at 450 or 475.
Great observations. It would have been immensely helpful if you listed the chosen bullet weight in grains you selected for each caliber on your charts, as that encompasses two important variables; recoil energy and what game animal in weight you're going after, e.g. a 200 grain Nosler Partition loaded into a 30-06 for Elk and happenstance Brown Bear encounters has different recoil parameters than a 30-06 loaded with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond or Barnes TTSX for Deer and Plains game,imo. Hence, the importance of listing bullet weight. Truthfully, the old 30-06 Springfield still does it all, Gophers to Grizzlies , by appropriately selecting bullet weight. It also has Match factory loadings and bullets, so a non handloader can ascertain a baseline accuracy potential of a rifle. A 30-06 SPRG is still available the world over, not so much the esoteric cartridges. Thanks for your hard work and videos.phil P.S. You misspoke when you said "a bullet has to be going 1900 foot pounds to reliably expand". I know you meant 1900 fps/feet per second.
Here in Nebraska in order for a rifle to be legal for deer, it must be 22cal or larger delivering at least 900 ft lb of energy at 100 yards. For elk it must be 25cal or larger delivering at least 1700 ft lb of energy at 100 yards.
Good overview. Correctly said, the main thing is the speed of the blow to the shoulder. In all this splendor, the best at 500m. is 6.8 Winchester. Very balanced, weight, recoil speed.
One of the reasons I chose 270wsm is the speed of the bullet being still fairly high out to 4-500 yards while maintaining relatively lower recoil. Up to 8 elk with it now. Farthest shot was about 325 yards. Right around 200 yards for the rest of the shots, give or take.
Happy to see the 280 Rem here and doing well. My dad got me one in the 760 pump in 1976, and himself the same gun in 30-06. I shoot his for deer nowadays because of cartridge availability. For our farm in the western Ozarks, shots have been from 20-175 yards. My grandfather had a 300 Savage that’s still used by a friend as well. Thanks for the comparison and putting it in this video.
I would have to agree on the velocity issue. I have a .458 Magnum I had built for me about 50 years ago, with a Mannlicher stock to the muzzle, a heavy rollover comb steeply pitched towards the action, a ventilated recoil pad, and Mag-Na-Ported to contain muzzle rise. It is heavy, but far more enjoyable to shoot than a Remington 742 in .30-06 I have, and that assessment was confirmed by others during the same comparison in the field. The .458's recoil is a slow but determined push, as opposed to an angry slap at the shoulder. You would vastly prefer to hunt with it over the Remington were it not for the weight you have to schlep, but with a generously wide sling, you certainly don't feel it in the shoulder - only in the legs. And that's shooting 500 grain solids or 450 grain soft nose - vs. 180 grain .30-06. It's also why a 9.5 lb Garand is far more comfortable to shoot than the 7.5 lb 742 - the additional 2 pounds of gun weight makes a big difference when firing .30-06 cartridges of equal loading.
Super entertaining. Some of the muzzle velocities are maybe off a bit. Take 308 win for instance. 2491, ok 180 grain sure. Quality hunting bullet 165-168 can be easily driven at 2700 fps from a 24" barrel, and is a proven elk killer. Bet it turns all categories green. Keep up the good work!
Interesting way to look at recoil and calibers capable of distance. Personally I’m sticking to my .308, I know it’s not a 500 yard elk gun, and the scope I have on it fits the purpose of a 350 yard shot well.
That's cool that you invited people over to try out scopes! I was just out there for Trail Hero! I can't wait to come back to the area. I just found your channel today...I'm really enjoying the information you're sharing. Thank you.
Not sure how I missed this video for two years?!? Awesome content as always. Great video, great information. Would love to see how this stacks up against some of the newer cartridges, namely the seven PRC! Great channel!!
Thanks for the vid, I actually learned something. My personal choice for the "all around" hunting round is the .280 Whitetail, muley, elk, and moose. Have all fallen for me.
I shoot a Savage 10 FLCP-SR 308 and it is very comfortable shooting the Hornady Superformance 150 SST ammo and has dropped Elk at 500 yds with a single shot no problem. Looking at your chart it appears you looked at very heavy bullets for the 308 which kept it off the top 10 list...
I love that you made this list. I will be using it. I think with the right bullet and the right load, you can make many of these calibers move up to elk killers.
Making a kill shot, I've never noticed recoil. 6.5prc is my favorite candidate. I've used it for just under 3 years. 7 weatherby mag is my all time go to caliber. 6.5prc is getting the job done well.
I wish I still lived out your way I would loan you my browning xbolt hells canyon extreme long range in 6.8 western. That rifle manages the recoil so well that it kicks less than my 6.5 creedmoor.
@@williamdouglass4141 I took it out to 1000 yards yesterday. It was very effortless, my 15 year old boy was killing it also. I really could not be happier.
Just saw this video and wanted to add my experience. I've been using .300blk since I started deer hunting and so far have had very good results. Granted, where i hunt we don't have shots over 100 yards, but my rifle also isn't breaking 1000ft/lbs at the muzzle. That said I also have a 7mm-08, but I've yet to see a deer while I have been carrying it.
7mm-08 makes the list, but .308 drops below 1,900fps at 500 yards, so it didn't quite make it. Still a great low-recoil cartridge, though. Just not good for the super long shots.
This really needs to be split in two categories based on range. Talking only about 500 yard capable cartridges ignores a lot of great options that are more than sufficient for 87% of large game situations. A 300 yard adjusted table on your site, but I think it should have been featured here. When talking 300 yards, a lot of 6mm rounds take the top ranks for deer, like the .243, 6mm Rem, and 6mm CM. Properly loaded 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are also viable. And though the .30-30 is a little under the desired 1900 fps @ 300 yards, I think most .30-30 bullets are designed to work at lower velocities anyway. For elk, the .260, 7mm Mauser, 6.5-284, and 7mm-08 all go from borderline to more than adequate.
You could have made 300 or even 400 yards as a more realistic the cut off and came up with different calibers like the 6.5x55 Swedish or 308 Winchester. What was the cutoff recoil velocity? Clearly a lot gun have fairly low recoil. Also following your rules the 50 BMG is one of the lightest recoiling Elk rounds. Nice work by the way!!!!
Yeah, this is my issue with this, this is cool, but I wish the distance and power metrics were left a little more open to user preference, say I want a 300-yard whitetail caliber. Something like a 6.5 Grendel might be perfect. This spreadsheet is a good starting point to build a tool to directly compare pretty disparate calibers and help hunters choose their tools more precisely.
Love your videos! Your thoughtful approach and interesting topics is bar none the best out there. Thank you for putting up your quality videos and sharing your data with us.
I would love to see the 7mm PRC added to this list to see how it compares. I will look for this in some of your more current videos as well. Thanks Jim!
I regret not seeing this video earlier. I must give my 2cents. (IMHO) This video is exactly what I would expect from a young man. Sadly, he is uninformed of the 7X57 Mauser and it's little brother , the 257 Roberts. These two cartridges must be included in any discussion of what is the lightest recoil cartridge more than capable of dropping deer. At one time, the 7x57 Mauser was the most popular big game cartridge in the world. When the military developed the 308, the mauser lost popularity fast. In 1955, Remington began producing factory ammo for the 257 Roberts. The 257 Roberts became very popular as an all purpose rifle cartridge. Woodchucks to deer. Unfortunately, the ammo companies themselves, did everything wrong they could do to destroy popularity of the beautiful little cartridge. Then came along the 243 & the 2506. Together, they stole the attention away from the 257 Roberts and sent it down into the annuls of history. I have a 257 Rob and a 7mm rem mag. The difference in recoil is amazing. The 257 Rob is the lightest recoil deer rifle I have ever fired. Lighter than a 243 win or a 260 rem with comparable bullet weights. Load the "Bob" with a 120 grain partition and it becomes a wonderful deer gun. Both the 7x57 & the 257 Rob should have been in this discussion.
I’ve harvested many of deer (granted Texas hill country white tail” with a 22-250. Quite possibly the best cartridge for Texas hunting. Next up my 6.5 creedmoor is perfectly fine. The 300 prc is my newest caliber but not useful for Texas hunting besides hogs or Javelina. Didn’t buy it for hunting really anyway.
I like my .243 with 100gr ammo for deer. Every deer I have got dropped right there, also it doesn't tear up the meat as much if you get a weird angle and the shot isn't true.but my .243 is a bit sentimental because dad gave it to me on our last deer season before he passed..
This whole discussion is just another attempt to justify buying another latest fad rifle and caliber, he has massaged the bullet weights and criteria to justify how great the latest fad calibers are when really the .243, 270, 7mm mag, 308, 30-06 and 300 win mag have been killing deer and elk quite effectively for the last 50 years and will continue to do so for the next 50 years.
The 7.62x39 is a good whitetail deer round if you get hollowpoints or soft points. And cheap, no recoil either. But it's a light round. Shot placement is important
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe I’ve watched Randy Newberg take about 30 elk with a 7mm-08, but it’s not on the elk list? Nor is the 270 win? Data is vital, but sometimes the map is not the territory.
@@ChaskeJohnson meh.. the 25-06 beats the man bunn in every relevant category for hunting with the exception of recoil.. and outside of hunting purposes better alternatives to the man bun have been offered. The 6.5 like the 308 it replaced does "Average" really well.. But these are opinions and I'm glad we're allowed to have different ones.. this way I don't have to worry about you buying the last box of 117gr SSTs off the shelf..
@@TheCaptmikem I agree. Glad they make different calibers. I will also forever be referring to my creedmoor as the 6.5 man bunn! Hahaha. Have a good one
That .378 Weatherby is definitely the legend of recoil. Dude, it hurts. Never shoot it from a bench. It felt like I got my head kicked off. My teeth hurt afterward.
Some years back when I got my 20 acres I went looking for a rifle to take down NY's 250+ lb whitetails and not endanger my neighbors. I came up with the .260 Rem. That is still my whitetail deer rifle. Swift Scirocco II 130 gr bullets at 2,860 fps MV do just what I need. In fact, at the time I went shopping for a 7mm-08 WIN, but as this region had just opened to allow rifle hunting none were available. Same with the .308 WIN. But the store manager said " I can give you a deal on this rifle" in a dusty box and didn't have any factory ammo available for it. Unfamiliar with the cartridge I pulled a Hornady reloading manual off the rack and thought "I can live with this." So I low-balled him and ended up with a Savage Model 11 in .260 Rem (1:8" twist, happily) plus 100 unprimed brass, Redding dies, and some Hornady SST bullets (which I soon was disappointed with). But I have found it to be ideal. Very accurate and grim death on whitetails at any range I have tried (10 to 190 yards). I hunt in the woods - long range doesn't really come up as whitetail are smart, and Eastern elk were hunted extinct hereabouts with flintlocks and patched round balls before NY was a state and not a colony.
What??!! No listing of the 6.5X55???!!! Baulderdash! Fun video! You do a lot of great work! The kind of work that I tried to do most of my life (I'm jealous!) Keep up the great work!
Interesting choice of subject: recoil. Both before and after WW2, the U.S. Army found that, even among "City Boys" who had never touched any sort of gun before, at least 96% of them were, with training and experience, able to deal with the recoil of a .30-06' rifle WITH NO ISSUES whatsoever. Of the remaining 4%, about 3/4 of them were fine with "just a little bit" of additional training. (My Grandfather said, about 2 or 3 weeks, at most!) The rest, were just "Wash-outs".
6 mm Creedmoor and 243 probably other ones have lighter recoil then they're Creedmoor 6 5 and meet all the criteria you discussed and they're both lower recoil
Didn’t we forget the 6.5x300 Weatherby? That’s a joy for all to shoot with super long barrel life! I don’t think I’m getting another rifle until Weatherby decides to make a .25x458 Lott.
I just had a rifle chambered for 7mm Sherman Short Mag. 180gr .284 Berger at 2900-3000 fps. About the most recoil I’d want out of a light weight hunting rifle. Excited to do some load development and see how it shoots.
Nice work. May I suggest a comparison at 300 and 400 meters? The vast majority 97% of hunters (by your survey) do not take 500 meter shots, so bring it down to "Realsville" with 300 meters. In any case, thank you.
I wish I could do the scope review, as I’m from Hurricane. But I’m currently serving a mission in the Czech Republic, but hopefully you will still be doing things, like this when I get home next year. Keep up the good work
The 30-06 is 115 years old. Has served in continuous battle grounds since 1906 and has killed everything that walks and some things that no longer walk on this planet. From your list the only cartridges that appear to be older is 22lr, 30-30, and 45-70. Talk about a testament to design.
There’s nothing magical about the design. If the US government had adopted the 6.5 Swede we’d all be fiercely loyal to that and bow in reverence to it. After a few decades, the tradition becomes self-reinforcing. Why do I know this is true? Because that’s exactly what is true in the Northern European countries where hunters adopted the Swede.
@@G5Hohn …. After being on the receiving end of Spanish 7x57mm the US Army took it and supersized it to 7.62x63mm. Which is how we got the .30/06 cartridge.
@@G5Hohn Scandinavia doesn’t have grizzly bears roaming it’s forests.
@@falba1492 Correct, it has much larger polar bears, although not in the forest. And the Swede will take a polar bear.
@@Idahoguy10157 Exactly. There's nothing magic about the design, as it's a supersized 7mm Mauser copy. Right down to the bolt face and rim specs. Tradition. Stick with what works. Think how many rimless designs are out there now that use that exact same boltface/rim diameter. It's self-reinforcing.
That 6.5 PRC is looking more attractive as an all around hunting cartridge.
243 gets it done for many situations and is great for deer.
Dang it. Rewatched the video and noticed an error. I said only 3% of shots are past 500 yards. Not true. Some of the respondents hadn't shot a big game animal yet, so they should be removed. Actually, it's 4.2%. I may never forgive myself.
At 5:10 you may have a 2nd error.
You mention your threshold of 1900fps at 500 yards, which will be a huge leap for me and possible some other viewers, but then you state 1900ft.lbs.
Why a huge leap? Take a Hornady ELD-X for example, it can expand as low as 1600fps. (Peterson Hunting - Going Long Range With Hornady's Versatile ELD-X)
May you forever live in shame....
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
Who knew?🙁
Id absolutely love to see a projectile review and comparison with say a 7mm rem mag. At the end of the day your rifle is only as good as the projectile you sent at the deer, and at 7mm velocities you can get some wacky stuff happening. Could do categories like :
penetration,
Expansion,
BC,
Cost,
I personally run nosler 160gr accubonds, but at $2 a projectile it’s steep. I’d love to see how an ELDX stacks up. If it has 90% the penetration for 50% the cost id definitely switch.
IMO this guy has the most logical and well thought out video's on youtube for hunting/shooting. Keep them coming, let me add this,
I live in Colorado and have successfully hunted big game every year since I was a teenager in the late 70's in three western states.
I've owned a 260, 7-08 definitely kills faster, my wife and son have killed a truckload of deer/antelope/elk with it and I've killed a dozen or more with it as well.
I keep going back to the 6.5's, started out in life with a 264wm, then to the 260, 7-08, 7saum, 300saum and currently using a 6.5prc. My hunting partner uses a 270wsm, very impressive.
My observations and opinions, 6.5's shine the brightest in the wind, nothing beats them when it's howling.
264wm is awesome but the barrel life is to short and I don't care for long action rifles anymore.
260 kills good but often times it's difficult to tell right away if the shot is fatal or even see a reaction from a fatally hit animal.
7-08 kills way better than it looks like it should but the bullets blow around in the wind pretty bad at long range.
7saum is to much for even big mule deer, I've ruined both shoulders and upper loin with a heart shot on a big mule deer, great elk cartridge.
I sold the 300saum, kicks to hard, poor trajectory, doesn't do well in the wind.
I've only shot a couple of deer and antelope with the 6.5prc, it's not a 264wm but close enough on deer and antelope, remains to be seen how it will do on elk.
The 270wsm is a star in this category, a little to much for antelope but deer and elk it's probably as close to perfect as one could get.
I'm currently experimenting with the 6mm arc, plan on taking a doe and buck antelope with it and a whitetail doe2021 {limiting the size to 135lbs and smaller animals} it's a small cartridge.
Good analysis. Needing a lighter rifle than my 1962 Model 70 300 Weatherby, I am looking at 7mm-08 & 260. 243 & 25-06 bullets too light. Settling in on 7mm-08, & you nudged me closer. Now, as for the light weight rifle . . .
Great analysis. Thanks for sharing your experience... sounds like the 6.8 Western should be next on your list. Wicked down range energy and BC.🇺🇸
Great video. The 7mm-08 is huge in NZ and a great rifle so I cant wait to see your take on that. Keep up the great work.
@SickCall Ranger Red deer is the most common. There are some sika, sambar, fallow, whitetail and a few pockets of elk . There's chamois and thar in the Southern Alps. Plenty of pigs
All are introduced. New Zealand had no mammals prior to human habitation approx 800 - 1,000 years ago. All of the species that I mentioned above were introduced in the last 150 years approx, apart from one species of pig that came earlier with Maori settlers.
@SickCall Ranger Exactly as MrTimmu67 said. Sambar, Fallow, Red and Sika inside a shortish drive from my house but laws aimed at punishing landowners that allow hunters make it very hard to get access to any of them.
You forgot the stinky wild goats, wallabies, rabbits, canadian geese (these can be also shot with the 7mm08 :-))
I went to my gun shop here in Oz yesterday looking for something in .7-08. Nothing. My buddy who works there said that no one is importing them to Australia anymore because of the 6.5 Creedmore. I felt super sad man hahaha
I'm a kiwi in southland 7mm08 all day every day
The 6.5 PRC and the .30-06 are my favorite, you outdid yourself with this video.
Thank you
In the Marine Corps, our rifle qualification with iron sights was 200/300 and 500 yards. For fun, we would fire at 800 yards. It's amazing that a .556 round can accuratly hit a body sized target in a group at 800 yards and no optics (early 1990's).
that's pretty cool
thks for seving our country
It's my danged eyesight that's lacking, these days.
optics are just for the user, makes lower skill needed to hit farther. but accurate and effective are very different debates
@@bradhaines3142 Well there’s that little issue with being able to identify who your shooting as well 😂. Don’t want to mistake a line of fleeing civilians for a line of troops walking through a valley.
Your videos are the reason I got the 6.5 PRC!! Seeing this makes me feel even better. Still haven’t shot it but am excited!!
I’ve been shooting a 6.5x06 for. Over 20 years a 95 grain v max is 600 m yote buster to date that and my Swede I don’t see any plus in the creed and I can push 160s in both for black bear 140 and below 129 I don’t see the ballistic difference
Really interesting! Kind of funny. When I started thinking about shooting big game back in the mid 1980's my buddies dad said " Go get an 30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag in a Remington Model 700. You will never need another rifle unless you head to Alaska...
He was right then and it looks like he's still right..!
Or any of a couple of dozen other good old cartridges. Animals are no tougher than they've ever been and the old standards still get the job done. The new stuff is fun to play with but no more effective.
This 2022 Recoil Chart is still my go to for so many questions on these calibers and capabilities. Thank you for taking the time to compile it!
Where do I get a copy of the chart?
I like the math nerd stuff. Surely, a lot of people find it boring, but I dig it.
Jesus loves you repent and believe onto Him and be saved from eternal punishment, amen, Jesus DIED + SUFFERED 4U on the cross!
Congratulations on 100.000 subscribers!
Man, you guys at Backfire really break this stuff down into ways even an amateur newbie shooter could understand. You guys are doing some things differently than many others and doing it well. Very much appreciate your videos.
If you are truly interested in learning about lightest recoil deer cartridges, research the 257 Roberts and the 7x57 Mauser. Both were missing from this list.
@@clasvirhodes4969 6mm Credmoor? With 1-7" twist barrel will kill deer
@clasvirhodes4969 I know it's been awhile but 7x57 Mauser is also known as 7mm Mauser which was on the list
You have an AWESOME channel dude! Thanks for what you do. You are a great addition to this great community.
If it makes you feel any better, ty is demonitising all gun channels. You didn't cross any specific line
Hmmm, my 270 Win makes the HITS list at 1004, and using my favorite hunting factory ammo, 143 ELDX lists 500yd energy at 1567, velocity at 2206 fps. I'm not sure which ammo you were listing to get your data. If your averaging bullets and load info into one number, that's a little like saying-if I have my left hand in boiling water and my right hand in ice water, then on average I'm comfortable. It might be more relevant to use the most popular deer cartridge in each caliber, and the most popular Elk cartridge in each caliber.
Great video.
Love your channel and videos. Keep 'em coming.
Hear! Hear!
I was wondering how 270win didn't make it onto the Elk list, yet the creedmore did? Just seems like 270 would be on both. 🤷♂️
This is a great list and effort, but it's fuzzy by definition, especially at the cut-offs. If I were Elk hunting, I would use my .270 with a proper loading for Elk, and if confronted with a shot longer than 500 yards, I'd be mindful of the limitations.
We wouldn't have anything to talk about if we just used what works. Boring old 30.06, 270 Win, 308.
My hunting party took 3 elk this year all with 270 with 150 partition. Non went further than 40 yards.
Laughing all the way with a 6.5x55 - (and given the scalability of loads in this category - through 140 and 156 grain certainly makes it a nice alternative).
My 6.5x55 with handloads bears my creed by 100 fps
Super underrated caliber… everyone saw 6.5 cm and went with it when in reality 6.5 swede has been around for over a century
@@alanb2845 I complete agree. I had the Swede before the creed. In a modern action with handloads mine has bear my creed in speed and accuracy.
@@clydeowens8014 Swede can only beta cred if you exceed CIP max pressure.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 I’m loading in a modern action. No pressure at all. No cratered primers no ejector Marks and no heavy bolt lift. Took all the way to 2875 with 140 grain Bergers out of a 20 inch barrel. My creed the best I have done with 140’s is 2700ish with 22 inch barrel.
Exactly! My 45-70 with a 300gr bullet in a stout load, hits like a punch; but the same rifle using the 500gr bullet with a stout load, is just a push.
That's a perfect example of this.
BTW, it is illegal for me to use any of those cartridges for deer in Ohio. :/
@@Win94ae What about a 35 Whelen?
Single shot CVA in 35 Whelen can be had today for under $400.
@@altruisticscoundrel I bought my CVA Hunter in 45-70 for $200, and that is my deer rifle, since I can only use straight walled case cartridges, or shotguns. I used to use a Marlin 1894 44mag, and before that a S&W 686 357mag.
Nice vid. I love looking at the numbers for different rounds. For anybody interested, I found the formula Hornady uses to calculate HITS:
HITS = (W^2 / 7000) * (V/D^2) / 100
where
HITS = Hornady Index of Terminal Standards
W = Weight of the bullet in grains.
V = Impact velocity of the bullet in feet/sec.
D = Diameter of the bullet in inches.
I'm not even a hunter, but I really enjoyed this video. Really well done!
I sold all my magnums a long time ago. The 7x57 (or the 7mm-08) and the .45-70 will do everything I need to do without beating me up in the process. In the 7mm's, a 150 grain Partition will easily reach 2700 fps, and I use Trapdoor level loads with cast bullets in the .45-70. Neither of these are 'long-range' cartridges, but where I live 200 yards is a long shot indeed.
Sweet! Great cartridges. At 200 yds you got venison. IMHO shooting animals too far away is unethical. I cringe when people brag about shooting critters past 300 yds
Consider the 9.3x62 Mauser cartridge. Along with your 45-70
@@Idahoguy10157 I'd probably choose the .338-06 over the 9.3x62, mostly because of a better bullet selection. The .35 Whelen would also be a valid choice.
@@r.awilliams9815 …. I get it. My suggestion has much to do with the 9.3x62 being matched up with the 7x57. They have that African heritage together.
Very interesting. Adding the average barrel life and average costs per shot could put the list in perspective. The number of shots could go up fast: training, handloading tests, targets, and hunting use. That changes likely the perspective. Especially the "RUMs" versus the “efficient cartridges” like the 308 or 7mm-08. The best cartridge misses if 1) the hunter firing it did not practice or 2) does not have the funds, or 3) - especially for the preppers under us - just does not want to swap barrels every 3K shots. Very good list, but the barrel wear and cost would make it even more perfect. Thanks for the overviews! Nice work.
I love the honest information you provide, not what’s popular.
Thank you for finally doing a scopes video!! Also thanks for the content. If it's me as a new shooter, I'm buying a gun that shoots 270 win. My research shows it's good enough to kill a deer or elk, as well as the kick isn't too bad. THanks again!!
The 270 Win is an incredible cartridge. Ammo is (was lol), always available anywhere you go. It’s pretty much the best deer 🦌 cartilage available. Recoil is not bad at all. Get a Tikka, and put it in a GRS stock, and you’ll good as gold.
You will not be upset with a .270!!! It is awesome.
Jesus loves you repent and believe onto Him and be saved from eternal punishment, amen, Jesus DIED + SUFFERED 4U on the cross!
The .270 Win is not optimal as an all-around rifle because the twist rate is generally too slow for the heavier bullets that you would want to use for elk or moose. If you are a large person, a 7mm Rem Mag would be better (higher velocity). If small, a 7mm-08 is probably better. The .270 is great for mule deer and big horn sheep in the Rockies, but those other two calibers will take them just as well.
We just can't resist a top ten video! Great topic on this one as many hunters factor recoil into the equation. Good job!
Great video. As a handloader there is a lot to be said for the 6.5 Creedmoor and it's all around performance with only 40 grains of powder more or less and with the cost of components and ammo these days that's something. That being said IMHO the answer to your statements on lower recoil and terminal performance is my all time favorite, the 270WSM. Plenty of power for anything that walks except maybe a Grizz, it's not bad on the shoulder, is VERY accurate and does it all with 60 grains of powder or less. There's a lot to like there with the 270WSM.
Your post in reverse. I went from 270wsm to 6.5cm mostly based on recoil and multiple surgeries on a torn rotator cuff. Add to that the cost and then the availability of factory ammo and the 6.5cm has taken its place for those 3 reasons.
I would like to see 7mm-08 I can get over 2900 fps with a 140 grain bullet with less recoil then a 308
I'm using my 7mm08 for elk this year and my load data shows good for elk out past 700 yards elevation plays a huge part of these numbers .
It’s a awesome round love my Sako 85 in 7mm08 will never get rid of it my favourite gun cheers Yogi Australia 🇦🇺🤙🤙
@Packman A few years back it started getting a bit of a hipster reputation for some reason. As though the people shooting it chose it over .308 just to be different.
It also gets overshadowed by the bigger 7mm rounds in long range precision since it can't sling the heavy 165+ bullets as well as a 7mm Mag and the like.
@@jamesreeder8917 its around a 6ft hold to account for drop my, misses hunts with the 7mm-08 she dropped a cow elk at 340yds last season. I was impressed by the 7mm-08
I think its just over looked cuz of the constant new wild cats being pushed all the time now. We already made most of our best performers long time ago. 4Some reason, people don't want tried n true. They want the fancy new this or that to sound like a pro joe at the range. Just how I feel. So many awskme rounds that get over looked ,like they are old news. Idk, the 25.06 got it all over the new 6.5cm in most conditions even at pretty long range. For hunting.. not paper.. But you never will hear that by marketing. On
Great video and great idea about your back yard and scopes! Also, so glad you mentioned doing a video on 7mm-08. I truly enjoy loading for my 7-08. It’s not overwhelming ballistics wise, but very efficient. Love whitetail hunting with 140 loads. I chuckle when I hear people say it’s a great “youth” cartridge. They don’t understand efficiency. Thanks
The 160gr Sierra Tipped MatchKing I hand load for my Weatherby is still traveling above 2000fps and 1530 ft-lbf at 400 yards. And it’s a pleasure to shoot. I’m amused by the diehard .308 fans I’m friends with that scoff at the 7mm-08.
@@stevennewman4778 impressive load!
Remington made a few 7600 pump rifles in 7mm08. Sweet rifle. I have been looking for one for many years.
A lot of guys hunt with the 6.5 Grendel out of an AR-15. With rounds like that you can't practically reach out to 500 yards but most people don't need to shoot that far. There are so many variables when choosing your cartridge, pick whatever makes you happy because that's why you're shooting in the first place (hopefully).
You guys are amazing at this! I started with your sub-$500 scopes & have been hooked since. Thank you for your hard work.
Hum well I don’t know where it comes from that it take 1,000 lbs of kinetic energy to take a white tail deer. I’ve learned over the years it’s 600 ft lbs for deer, 800 for mule deer, and 1,000 lbs for elk and around 1,200 for moose. Each type of bullet also expands at different velocity’s. Whether or not it’s a bonded type bullet or a jacket hollow point or a VLD type bullet. For instance my Berger VLDs only need 1300 FPS to expand. Hornady ELDs need 1600 FPS. Well that’s what’s on the box anyway. It is a good video and your are helping with what people need to look for in a bullet and caliber rifle that is needed for a humane kill. This is a good thing.
The content of this channel is so unique and interesting, even to someone like me who doesn't shoot rifles very often. And I can tell you guys are having FUN making these videos, and that always makes content more enjoyable when you know the content creator enjoys making it. Keep up the good work!
During some 50 years of elk hunting, my .348 Win. 71 has taken 5, very big western Washington elk on the Olympic Peninsula. Love that cartridge/rifle combo.
I had to chuckle at your final choices! I have a 700 BDL DM Remington 7mm REM Mag, Tikka T3X Laminate stock stainless barrel .270 and wooohooo a Tikka T3X Synthetic stock stainless barrel in 7mm-08. Not bad I picked 3 of your top 5 for my collection of rifles. I enjoy your TH-cam show and wish you success in your endeavors! Great work and very informative!
Good luck trying to find ammo in these new exotic calibers. I can always find .308 and .270 ammo on the shelves and even .30-06, but I've yet to see 6.5 Creedmoor ammo on any shelf, and that round has been around for many years, just as I rarely see a box of .35 Whelen, and even the .300 Savage is at times scarce. But, then, I'm not in gun stores every week.
I learned more math and physics in this than school
Cool video, a few of my favorites made the cut! My 7x57 and 270Win made the deer cut and for elk, the 30-06 and 7RM!
It was great to see that these old warhorses were able to keep up with the new hi-tech/sci-fi laser beams!
Love my 7 Mauser!
I got a good deal on a sporterized WWII Mauser in 7x57 early this year that is a dream to shoot. I can't wait for deer season to open.😀
Started my boys with a 6.8 spc in an AR-15 for deer. Nearly zero recoil, good energy to 300 (all their shots have been inside of 200) 120 gr SST kills everything we shoot with it. Deer, pigs, coyotes... The 6.5 grendel is great too.
115 barnes ttsx 6.5 grendel favorite deer/hog load
The ol' 30-06 getting it done! Love it. Thanks for the video. Shot my last moose with the ol' '06.
Unfortunately, my dad disliked the .30 06 I advised him to get because of recoil. I'm not a recoil fan either, but handed down to me I found out how truly wonderful this caliber is for a handloader.
100 + years and still getting it done
I thought MULEKICKER & I were the last 2 '06 users on the planet... I have no qualms about the 30-06 & it's efficacy on darn near anything... Culling cape buff, it's the preferred cap, 220 grain cupro nickel FMJs, @ 2400-2500 fps. Excellent penetration. If you're shooting 20 + rounds in an hour, the recoil threshold is a real issue. Bad shots get you stomped, chomped or both. Bottom line, the pill has to be accuratley placed, period. Note, backup rifle ON STATION, NO MATTER WHAT. I LIKE 2, A SXS .470(mines a sweet old rifle my great uncle won on a bet in the 30s, he was a market hunter in Michigan... ), and a pre 64 Model 70 in .375 H&H. Next big bore, a RUGER M77 GUIDE GUN in .375 RCM, or .416 RCM/ REM, 20" TUBE, basically a MODEL 70, laminate stock, bead blasted/ green parkarized finish. Just a solid rifle, totally reliable, accurate a plenty, balanced, the best stock lines for a HEAVY- HEAVY bolt gun... I'm gonna get two; an '06, and the .416 RCM...
LOVE MY 06s... Trained thru DCM on the caliber out 1000 yards, and I shoot year round. I use a USMC ARMORERS LOAD RECIPEs I was given by a mentor, but the new powders & bullets are really what upped the '06s stats... Trophy Bonded Best laws,165,180& 200 grainers, plus, some 220 grain WW slugs I pulled outa ammo from my parents mercantile from the 50s, just to use that cupro nickel FMJ frieght train... Throw in some BARNES ORIGINAL 250 grain SPs, whatcha Whatcha want(more)... Gotta shoot straight, still.
I love the 30-06. I think it just falls into a weird area where it does everything you need a cartridge to do.
I think the reason why people don't cling on to it is because they look at it like it's a "Fudd" cartridge. How they are so wrong.
@@cchcch-jw9dw If that means not being the latest reinvention of the wheel, you're right. I don't see where we're so much better off with the newer cartridges than we already had some years ago.
Very well made video, I really enjoyed it. I have had great success on elk with the 6.5 Creedmore. I shoot the Barnes 127 LRX hand-load at 2,830 fps and I get complete pass throughs with great terminal effects. All my shots were right around 300 yards and all elk didn’t go further than 25 yards. Everyone who hunts with me said the 6.5 was too small for elk and now they don’t say that anymore. With that said, I would not use 6.5 with a lightly constructed bullet.
I love those barns lrx 127s I'm running them in a 26 nosler at 3550 fps out of a 26" barrel it absolutely smashes stuff I picked up 165 pcs of 1s fired brass for 1 $ each so that rifle is set for a while and picked up 400 of the lrx bullets that rifle will be set for a season or so.
Recoil matters. Good analysis. Makes sense.
There’s a reason why so many people love the Creedmoor. Interesting that 6.5 mm topped the list for both deer and elk.
If u can’t shoot a 300 w m. Don’t that simple 28 nosler ? Vs 7 mag I can load a 7 mm 08 w 160 to 2650 bang flop u name it and mine shoots 120 s 130 to 3 k just like the .270
Considering your 6.5prc checked all those boxes, you should have made an honorable mention to what was directly above and below, those rifles and ammo are more available and cheaper, and have been killing it for a long time. All hail the beloved 308 & 7mm-08.
Yes, he's doing an apples to apples comparison on specific criteria with average bullets and average rifle weight. People should view this list as a starting point for decision making, not a finish. For example, to say a 7mm08 is insufficient for elk, well there are lots of factory loadings that will hit all the criteria at 400 yards, which might be all some people need. Or handload to hit all the criteria at 450 or 475.
Great observations. It would have been immensely helpful if you listed the chosen bullet weight in grains you selected for each caliber on your charts, as that encompasses two important variables; recoil energy and what game animal in weight you're going after, e.g. a 200 grain Nosler Partition loaded into a 30-06 for Elk and happenstance Brown Bear encounters has different recoil parameters than a 30-06 loaded with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond or Barnes TTSX for Deer and Plains game,imo. Hence, the importance of listing bullet weight. Truthfully, the old 30-06 Springfield still does it all, Gophers to Grizzlies , by appropriately selecting bullet weight. It also has Match factory loadings and bullets, so a non handloader can ascertain a baseline accuracy potential of a rifle. A 30-06 SPRG is still available the world over, not so much the esoteric cartridges. Thanks for your hard work and videos.phil
P.S. You misspoke when you said "a bullet has to be going 1900 foot pounds to reliably expand". I know you meant 1900 fps/feet per second.
Long live the 30-06 and the 1911 45acp! Just sayin' ......
Here in Nebraska in order for a rifle to be legal for deer, it must be 22cal or larger delivering at least 900 ft lb of energy at 100 yards. For elk it must be 25cal or larger delivering at least 1700 ft lb of energy at 100 yards.
Good overview. Correctly said, the main thing is the speed of the blow to the shoulder. In all this splendor, the best at 500m. is 6.8 Winchester. Very balanced, weight, recoil speed.
One of the reasons I chose 270wsm is the speed of the bullet being still fairly high out to 4-500 yards while maintaining relatively lower recoil. Up to 8 elk with it now. Farthest shot was about 325 yards. Right around 200 yards for the rest of the shots, give or take.
270 wsm is a thumper, totally underrated, it should be the most popular deer/ elk cartridge today
Happy to see the 280 Rem here and doing well. My dad got me one in the 760 pump in 1976, and himself the same gun in 30-06. I shoot his for deer nowadays because of cartridge availability. For our farm in the western Ozarks, shots have been from 20-175 yards. My grandfather had a 300 Savage that’s still used by a friend as well. Thanks for the comparison and putting it in this video.
The 7600 came in 7mm 08 Fantastic cartridge /rifle combo
I would have to agree on the velocity issue. I have a .458 Magnum I had built for me about 50 years ago, with a Mannlicher stock to the muzzle, a heavy rollover comb steeply pitched towards the action, a ventilated recoil pad, and Mag-Na-Ported to contain muzzle rise. It is heavy, but far more enjoyable to shoot than a Remington 742 in .30-06 I have, and that assessment was confirmed by others during the same comparison in the field.
The .458's recoil is a slow but determined push, as opposed to an angry slap at the shoulder. You would vastly prefer to hunt with it over the Remington were it not for the weight you have to schlep, but with a generously wide sling, you certainly don't feel it in the shoulder - only in the legs. And that's shooting 500 grain solids or 450 grain soft nose - vs. 180 grain .30-06. It's also why a 9.5 lb Garand is far more comfortable to shoot than the 7.5 lb 742 - the additional 2 pounds of gun weight makes a big difference when firing .30-06 cartridges of equal loading.
Man so glad you guys are coming to South Africa! Hope you have a “lekker” hunt!
Super entertaining. Some of the muzzle velocities are maybe off a bit. Take 308 win for instance. 2491, ok 180 grain sure. Quality hunting bullet 165-168 can be easily driven at 2700 fps from a 24" barrel, and is a proven elk killer. Bet it turns all categories green. Keep up the good work!
Interesting way to look at recoil and calibers capable of distance. Personally I’m sticking to my .308, I know it’s not a 500 yard elk gun, and the scope I have on it fits the purpose of a 350 yard shot well.
The videos just get better and better. Cant wait for the scope review. That will be very interesting.
Great video! You keep giving me reasons to buy a 6.5 prc
I’ve been wondering about this exact topic for years. Thanks for another excellent video!
That's cool that you invited people over to try out scopes! I was just out there for Trail Hero! I can't wait to come back to the area. I just found your channel today...I'm really enjoying the information you're sharing. Thank you.
Not sure how I missed this video for two years?!? Awesome content as always. Great video, great information. Would love to see how this stacks up against some of the newer cartridges, namely the seven PRC! Great channel!!
Thanks for the vid, I actually learned something.
My personal choice for the "all around" hunting round is the .280
Whitetail, muley, elk, and moose. Have all fallen for me.
I shoot a Savage 10 FLCP-SR 308 and it is very comfortable shooting the Hornady Superformance 150 SST ammo and has dropped Elk at 500 yds with a single shot no problem. Looking at your chart it appears you looked at very heavy bullets for the 308 which kept it off the top 10 list...
I love that you made this list. I will be using it. I think with the right bullet and the right load, you can make many of these calibers move up to elk killers.
Making a kill shot, I've never noticed recoil. 6.5prc is my favorite candidate. I've used it for just under 3 years. 7 weatherby mag is my all time go to caliber. 6.5prc is getting the job done well.
I wish I still lived out your way I would loan you my browning xbolt hells canyon extreme long range in 6.8 western. That rifle manages the recoil so well that it kicks less than my 6.5 creedmoor.
I agree. 6.8 western is an amazing round
@@williamdouglass4141 I took it out to 1000 yards yesterday. It was very effortless, my 15 year old boy was killing it also. I really could not be happier.
Great video. Love the channel. Keep up the great work.
Just saw this video and wanted to add my experience. I've been using .300blk since I started deer hunting and so far have had very good results. Granted, where i hunt we don't have shots over 100 yards, but my rifle also isn't breaking 1000ft/lbs at the muzzle. That said I also have a 7mm-08, but I've yet to see a deer while I have been carrying it.
.280 Rem needs more love. Barnes no longer offers it in factory ammo, otherwise I’d own one.
308 win or 7mm-08 would be my picks
7mm-08 makes the list, but .308 drops below 1,900fps at 500 yards, so it didn't quite make it. Still a great low-recoil cartridge, though. Just not good for the super long shots.
This really needs to be split in two categories based on range. Talking only about 500 yard capable cartridges ignores a lot of great options that are more than sufficient for 87% of large game situations. A 300 yard adjusted table on your site, but I think it should have been featured here.
When talking 300 yards, a lot of 6mm rounds take the top ranks for deer, like the .243, 6mm Rem, and 6mm CM. Properly loaded 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are also viable. And though the .30-30 is a little under the desired 1900 fps @ 300 yards, I think most .30-30 bullets are designed to work at lower velocities anyway.
For elk, the .260, 7mm Mauser, 6.5-284, and 7mm-08 all go from borderline to more than adequate.
Agreed 100%. Even 350 yards would be nice to see. I don't often take shots beyond that, so I feel the 7mm-08 would be perfect.
You could have made 300 or even 400 yards as a more realistic the cut off and came up with different calibers like the 6.5x55 Swedish or 308 Winchester. What was the cutoff recoil velocity? Clearly a lot gun have fairly low recoil. Also following your rules the 50 BMG is one of the lightest recoiling Elk rounds. Nice work by the way!!!!
Yeah, this is my issue with this, this is cool, but I wish the distance and power metrics were left a little more open to user preference, say I want a 300-yard whitetail caliber. Something like a 6.5 Grendel might be perfect. This spreadsheet is a good starting point to build a tool to directly compare pretty disparate calibers and help hunters choose their tools more precisely.
I think your missing the fact that he leaves the data set open and up on his website for you to do just that! Go check it out.
@@libertarianGO I checked it is a fun manner to put it together. He makes his arguments well.
Love your videos! Your thoughtful approach and interesting topics is bar none the best out there. Thank you for putting up your quality videos and sharing your data with us.
I would love to see the 7mm PRC added to this list to see how it compares. I will look for this in some of your more current videos as well. Thanks Jim!
I love this channel. Excellent video and sound quality combined with an extremely knowledgeable host, great data.
The 7mm mag is still an all around favorite in Colorado elk camps . Outstanding performance
Yes!!! You finally hit 100k, I started watching when you were at 50k
Wondering why the 7mm-08 never seems to get any love and people can’t get enough 6.5cm. They are fairly similar cartridges. Thoughts?
I regret not seeing this video earlier. I must give my 2cents. (IMHO) This video is exactly what I would expect from a young man. Sadly, he is uninformed of the 7X57 Mauser and it's little brother , the 257 Roberts. These two cartridges must be included in any discussion of what is the lightest recoil cartridge more than capable of dropping deer. At one time, the 7x57 Mauser was the most popular big game cartridge in the world. When the military developed the 308, the mauser lost popularity fast. In 1955, Remington began producing factory ammo for the 257 Roberts. The 257 Roberts became very popular as an all purpose rifle cartridge. Woodchucks to deer. Unfortunately, the ammo companies themselves, did everything wrong they could do to destroy popularity of the beautiful little cartridge.
Then came along the 243 & the 2506. Together, they stole the attention away from the 257 Roberts and sent it down into the annuls of history. I have a 257 Rob and a 7mm rem mag. The difference in recoil is amazing. The 257 Rob is the lightest recoil deer rifle I have ever fired. Lighter than a 243 win or a 260 rem with comparable bullet weights. Load the "Bob" with a 120 grain partition and it becomes a wonderful deer gun. Both the 7x57 & the 257 Rob should have been in this discussion.
Keep on going. Love this channel. As pro-firearms Americans, we need to move to rumble.
Looking forward to you doing the 7mm 08 could you please talk about the different bullet weights in that Calibre love the channel thanks mate
Yes, can you review the 7mm-08 please....as I have a T3x in 7mm-08, so would be keen to hear your thoughts.
I have the 6.5 prc and its AWESOME!!!
Ill admit i didn’t think it was going to be the round of choice though. Happily surprised
6.5 Creedmoor is just fine for deer. And that is really hard for me to admit lol
It was harder for me to buy one! Lol but it’ll do the job just fine on a deer. Better than my .308, probably not
I'm a 30-06 guy. I understand
Sure, within 350 yds or so, but I’d choose 7-08 all day long over 6.5CM.
I’ve harvested many of deer (granted Texas hill country white tail” with a 22-250. Quite possibly the best cartridge for Texas hunting.
Next up my 6.5 creedmoor is perfectly fine.
The 300 prc is my newest caliber but not useful for Texas hunting besides hogs or Javelina. Didn’t buy it for hunting really anyway.
I’m a ride or die 6.5x55 shooter for deer. soft soft shooter, dead nuts accurate, and it’s got that “I’m different” allure 😂 I love it
I like my .243 with 100gr ammo for deer. Every deer I have got dropped right there, also it doesn't tear up the meat as much if you get a weird angle and the shot isn't true.but my .243 is a bit sentimental because dad gave it to me on our last deer season before he passed..
This whole discussion is just another attempt to justify buying another latest fad rifle and caliber, he has massaged the bullet weights and criteria to justify how great the latest fad calibers are when really the .243, 270, 7mm mag, 308, 30-06 and 300 win mag have been killing deer and elk quite effectively for the last 50 years and will continue to do so for the next 50 years.
Hello backfire, where is the 308 in your videos. ???
Really enjoying the new format of your channel plus the informational charts ... keep up the great work. Thanks, RHINO RANCH, MT, USA
The 7.62x39 is a good whitetail deer round if you get hollowpoints or soft points. And cheap, no recoil either. But it's a light round. Shot placement is important
I'v took my first two deer 🦌 with 7.62x39 mac-90 I have a ROSSI wizard in 7.62x39 caliber I really like that rifle.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe I’ve watched Randy Newberg take about 30 elk with a 7mm-08, but it’s not on the elk list? Nor is the 270 win? Data is vital, but sometimes the map is not the territory.
As someone who loves to hate the 6.5 "man bunn" and a reloader, I wonder what bullet and powder combination would get the 25-06 on the list .
The man bunn already does everything the 25-06 could do and way more. No need to push the 25. The 6.5 was made to fill that gap
@@ChaskeJohnson meh.. the 25-06 beats the man bunn in every relevant category for hunting with the exception of recoil.. and outside of hunting purposes better alternatives to the man bun have been offered. The 6.5 like the 308 it replaced does "Average" really well.. But these are opinions and I'm glad we're allowed to have different ones.. this way I don't have to worry about you buying the last box of 117gr SSTs off the shelf..
@@TheCaptmikem I agree. Glad they make different calibers. I will also forever be referring to my creedmoor as the 6.5 man bunn! Hahaha. Have a good one
Wow. A fairly polite discussion involving the creedmoor. Dont see that often. And yes i love mine
The 270 win isn’t on the lower recoil side of the elk capable rounds?
Hard to go wrong with 7mm-08 or 6.5 Creedmoor.
That .378 Weatherby is definitely the legend of recoil. Dude, it hurts. Never shoot it from a bench. It felt like I got my head kicked off. My teeth hurt afterward.
Some years back when I got my 20 acres I went looking for a rifle to take down NY's 250+ lb whitetails and not endanger my neighbors. I came up with the .260 Rem. That is still my whitetail deer rifle. Swift Scirocco II 130 gr bullets at 2,860 fps MV do just what I need. In fact, at the time I went shopping for a 7mm-08 WIN, but as this region had just opened to allow rifle hunting none were available. Same with the .308 WIN. But the store manager said " I can give you a deal on this rifle" in a dusty box and didn't have any factory ammo available for it. Unfamiliar with the cartridge I pulled a Hornady reloading manual off the rack and thought "I can live with this." So I low-balled him and ended up with a Savage Model 11 in .260 Rem (1:8" twist, happily) plus 100 unprimed brass, Redding dies, and some Hornady SST bullets (which I soon was disappointed with). But I have found it to be ideal. Very accurate and grim death on whitetails at any range I have tried (10 to 190 yards). I hunt in the woods - long range doesn't really come up as whitetail are smart, and Eastern elk were hunted extinct hereabouts with flintlocks and patched round balls before NY was a state and not a colony.
Really excited to see your footage from your hunt in Africa next week! And congrats on 100k! Y’all do amazing work on this channel.
What??!! No listing of the 6.5X55???!!!
Baulderdash!
Fun video!
You do a lot of great work! The kind of work that I tried to do most of my life (I'm jealous!)
Keep up the great work!
In the 6 months since this video, you've reached over 400k subscribers 👏🎊
Interesting choice of subject: recoil.
Both before and after WW2, the U.S. Army found that, even among "City Boys" who had never touched any sort of gun before, at least 96% of them were, with training and experience, able to deal with the recoil of a .30-06' rifle WITH NO ISSUES whatsoever.
Of the remaining 4%, about 3/4 of them were fine with "just a little bit" of additional training. (My Grandfather said, about 2 or 3 weeks, at most!)
The rest, were just "Wash-outs".
So what is the lightest recoiling barrel length for 6.5 Creedmoor?
6 mm Creedmoor and 243 probably other ones have lighter recoil then they're Creedmoor 6 5 and meet all the criteria you discussed and they're both lower recoil
I mean put a brake on and wear hearing protection, this list goes out the window
Didn’t we forget the 6.5x300 Weatherby? That’s a joy for all to shoot with super long barrel life!
I don’t think I’m getting another rifle until Weatherby decides to make a .25x458 Lott.
I just had a rifle chambered for 7mm Sherman Short Mag. 180gr .284 Berger at 2900-3000 fps. About the most recoil I’d want out of a light weight hunting rifle. Excited to do some load development and see how it shoots.
Nice work. May I suggest a comparison at 300 and 400 meters? The vast majority 97% of hunters (by your survey) do not take 500 meter shots, so bring it down to "Realsville" with 300 meters. In any case, thank you.
I wish I could do the scope review, as I’m from Hurricane. But I’m currently serving a mission in the Czech Republic, but hopefully you will still be doing things, like this when I get home next year. Keep up the good work