My memory of the Films and the Books is often quite mixed up haha! So these videos are good to me as a reminder. Still, I did remember Frodo being older in the books and the relationship being a bit more like a lieutenant in the British army and his batman (Tolkien was likely inspired by seeing these kind of relationships in the war).
Like you did in episodes leading up to Boromir's character assassination episode, I think Jackson's treatment of Faramir deserved equal calling out starting now.
Faramir's character assassination is the worse change in my opinion. I remember hating it when I first saw it in the cinema and that hasn't changed even with all the different explanations people put forth. As such I agree with you sir.
@@cerboris521 completely agree with both of you. I just loved that he was one of a few humans that could resist the influence of The one Ring. And then the movies.... Jesus. I mean, he is good in the movie, but if you cast the books aside.
The almost schizophrenic discussion between Gollum and Smeagol might not be completely book canon. But I just love this scene. There is an ongoing inner struggle between the "stinker" and the "slinker" part of Gollum in the books. And Sam experiences part of it. There is no scene in the book where Smeagol frees himself of the Gollum part, but I don't mind that. There was a change in Gollum for the better for some time up to the moment where Frodo tricked him into captivity by Faramir. I really love how Jackson interpreted and portrayed that change. For me these are some of the best scenes in the second movie. And I don't mind that Faramir got Sams thoughts about the fallen Southron. It portraits him as someone who "doesn't love the blade for its sharpness nor the arrow for its swiftness" but as someone wise who acknowledges that fights may be necessary but harmful nontheless to everybody involved. That's why I particularly dislike the severe changes of his following actions as portrayed in the movie.
I think giving Sam's line to Faramir in that given context was a brilliant choice. Given the innate challenges of adapting inner monologues in movies. But I do agree that this fabricated conflict between the hobbits wasn't a welcoming addition.
Exactly. Considering this was an inner thought in the book, they needed it vocalized somehow so giving it to Faramir is fine and works for his new character since he’s practically a completely different person in the movies.
I much prefer the books, but still think that PJ did a really good job considering the limitations placed on him by the format and his having to having to appeal to the largest possible audience. You only have to look at Amazon's mess to see how much it could have gone wrong.
As someone who has only seen the movies. I can't really say anything between which is better as I have never read the books so this is based off of what I have heard. And again seeing the movie without seeing the book made me assume that everything in the film happened in the book. Though I do have to admit I would have liked to see Sam be suspicious of Golem but still be friendly to him, I do think the short scene added to this with Sam and Frodo is good because it does a good job at showing us the corrupting effects of the ring. Showing it slowly corrupting Frodo and making him more like Golem. Though I also like Smeagol temporarily banishing Golem as well. I also really like the bit where it goes on to have them talk about the Haradrim soldier and weather he came willingly or was brough into doing this through coin like the men of Umbar. Same for the men of Rhun.
I think it's Faramir with the 'a' pronounced like cat rather then car. And don't forget that although Frodo is 50 he still looks 'well preserved' since he's had the ring for a while at that point. :)
22 นาทีที่ผ่านมา
It's also a lot easier on the cast and crew to shoot the more dynamic scenes during the day
I would have liked to see Frodo and Sam's relationship portrayed more accurately. I know they couldn't have included everything but some of those changes, Frodo sending Sam away for instance, still rub me the wrong way since book Frodo would never have done that. While it wouldn't have been out of character even for book Gollum to try to make it look as though Sam had eaten their last rations, I think book Frodo would have seen through that because he would have known about Gollum's history of lies and deceit.
I think the worst change in the movies is the Frodo-Sam relationship, and next worst was Faramir. Sam and Faramir are my favorite characters in the books, so seeing them desecrated Is tough. I still love the movies though, despite these two major flaws!
I think Frodo's attitude to Sam is good for the movie as it shows the effect of the Ring, Frodo's fight against it and explains why Gollum is how he is. Frodo is even showing some of Gollum's duality. In the book, this can be explained so isn't needed.
I think that PJ was trying to set up three points of tension for Frodo: 1. Frodo was afraid that he would turn into Gollum and every time Sam criticized Gollum, he was unknowingly condemning Frodo. 2. He needs Gollum to lead him into Mordor and Sam couldn't keep his cool enough to let Gollum do that job. 3. There was a real chance that Sam would be led astray in some form by the Ring and Frodo wanted to protect him from that. PJ leaned heaviest on the first thread while merely hinting at the other two, which was the wrong choice in my opinion. I really appreciate the book's portrayal of Frodo and Sam both knowing Gollum was plotting something and openly discussing their concerns with each other instead of going off half-cocked.
Yea I like the portrayal of Frodo wanting to have hope for gollum. Obviously he’s witnessing his predecessor and doesn’t want to fall to the same things. It’s good writing for the movie!
I like that the movies made Gollum more sympathetic in the movie, only to contrast his relationship to the Ring with Frodo’s. I think the movies take it too far and make us think there is a difference between Gollum and Sméagol. The thought that Sméagol is on Frodo’s side is misleading, when in reality both sides are biding their time in order to get the Ring. The Sméagol side is more concerned with the promise it made to the Ring. While I appreciate the movie trying to show the potential for Gollum to change, I’d have like to see the films be more deliberate with Sméagol betraying the hobbits.
The movies did such a good job of making the Smeagol side of Gollum sympathetic, for a little bit, that it's easy to forget that it was Smeagol, not Gollum that killed Deagol when the ring was found. Toward the end of the journey when Gollum attacked Frodo Frodo said "Smeagol promised", and Smeagol/Gollum replied "Smeagol lied." implying that even the Smeagol half was planning to betray Frodo at some point.
Agreed! Such a beautiful, pure love and devotion that Sam has in his heart. There’s even one instance in the book where Sam is keeping watch and he looks over at Frodo and just thinks to himself, “I love him.“ it’s really a great poverty for our culture to have twisted filial love to point that it assumes that love must be erotic. We can’t project our modern interpretation onto Tolkien. Every time I hear the story of David and Jonathan, I am reminded of Sam and Frodo, and vice versa.
@@fr.andygutierrez5356 I agree. The Bible is very consistent in its condemnation of homosexuality, but that wouldn't stop modern film-makers from shipping David and Jonathan as a couple. I dread to think what they would make of Jesus's relationship with Mary Magdalen.
Poor Sam gets done dirty by the films. He just comes off as a dim-witted bully instead of an under-educated person who learns and grows and eventually becomes one of the 3 most important people in the Shire. Also, no Oliphant poetry! They certainly had an opportunity here and missed it. Grey as a mouse, Big as a house, Nose like a snake, I make the earth shake, As I tramp through the grass; Trees crack as I pass. With horns in my mouth I walk in the South, Flapping big ears. Beyond count of years I stump round and round, Never lie on the ground, Not even to die. Oliphaunt am I, Biggest of all, Huge, old, and tall. If ever you’d met me You wouldn’t forget me. If you never do, You won’t think I’m true; But old Oliphaunt am I, And I never lie. _-The Black Gate Is Closed_
I think you‘re pronouncing Faramir correctly. Tolkien inspired his name by norse and germanic mythology, not English mythology. And therefore it’s not likely that Tolkien wanted the name spoken in an English pronunciation but rather a germanic pronunciation, which would be how you pronounced it. Also I think the films did all Hobbits aside from Frodo and Bilbo dirty. Most of all Pippin and Sam. In the book they’re not comic relief characters but serious characters who impact the story in an important way. Especially Sam.
Low-key Frodo and Sam's relationship in the movies came off more like best friend/ brothers like Merry and Pippin but enough for people to make romantic fan fiction about them, let's be honest though, Frodo and Sam's relationship was definitely one of the best things about Peter Jackson's movies
Read along with me! 📖 Claim “The Two Towers” on Audible *for FREE:* www.audibletrial.com/twotowers 👈 Every free trial supports the channel!
Have you noticed every time the hobbits cook food, something happens and they don't get to eat
True 😂
I prefer the book because they actually got to eat the stew! 😁
Sam's comment to Gollum, "you're hopeless" when discussing food is also pretty meta.
My memory of the Films and the Books is often quite mixed up haha! So these videos are good to me as a reminder. Still, I did remember Frodo being older in the books and the relationship being a bit more like a lieutenant in the British army and his batman (Tolkien was likely inspired by seeing these kind of relationships in the war).
Like you did in episodes leading up to Boromir's character assassination episode, I think Jackson's treatment of Faramir deserved equal calling out starting now.
Faramir's character assassination is the worse change in my opinion. I remember hating it when I first saw it in the cinema and that hasn't changed even with all the different explanations people put forth. As such I agree with you sir.
@@cerboris521 completely agree with both of you. I just loved that he was one of a few humans that could resist the influence of The one Ring. And then the movies.... Jesus. I mean, he is good in the movie, but if you cast the books aside.
@cerboris521 And after we'll hear about Denethor character assassination, which is equally matches that of his sons
I agree with you all.
@@EcthelionoftheFountain725 Jackson and co. must have really hated that family.
The almost schizophrenic discussion between Gollum and Smeagol might not be completely book canon. But I just love this scene. There is an ongoing inner struggle between the "stinker" and the "slinker" part of Gollum in the books. And Sam experiences part of it. There is no scene in the book where Smeagol frees himself of the Gollum part, but I don't mind that. There was a change in Gollum for the better for some time up to the moment where Frodo tricked him into captivity by Faramir. I really love how Jackson interpreted and portrayed that change. For me these are some of the best scenes in the second movie.
And I don't mind that Faramir got Sams thoughts about the fallen Southron. It portraits him as someone who "doesn't love the blade for its sharpness nor the arrow for its swiftness" but as someone wise who acknowledges that fights may be necessary but harmful nontheless to everybody involved. That's why I particularly dislike the severe changes of his following actions as portrayed in the movie.
Well I'm off to watch the extended edition of The Two Towers tonight in theater. So looking forward to relive those moments on the big screen!
Oh that’s awesome!
14:07 "Cooking With Sam" sounds like a food channel based on Shire cuisine. You should go for it.
👀
I think giving Sam's line to Faramir in that given context was a brilliant choice. Given the innate challenges of adapting inner monologues in movies. But I do agree that this fabricated conflict between the hobbits wasn't a welcoming addition.
Exactly. Considering this was an inner thought in the book, they needed it vocalized somehow so giving it to Faramir is fine and works for his new character since he’s practically a completely different person in the movies.
5:20 Hell, Gollum hated moonlight.
Hundreds of years spent underground will give you a serious hate for any and all light.
Yea haha he literally tells them he hates both but would rather go under the pale face instead of the bright face 😂 my guy does not like being outside
I much prefer the books, but still think that PJ did a really good job considering the limitations placed on him by the format and his having to having to appeal to the largest possible audience. You only have to look at Amazon's mess to see how much it could have gone wrong.
As someone who has only seen the movies. I can't really say anything between which is better as I have never read the books so this is based off of what I have heard. And again seeing the movie without seeing the book made me assume that everything in the film happened in the book. Though I do have to admit I would have liked to see Sam be suspicious of Golem but still be friendly to him, I do think the short scene added to this with Sam and Frodo is good because it does a good job at showing us the corrupting effects of the ring. Showing it slowly corrupting Frodo and making him more like Golem. Though I also like Smeagol temporarily banishing Golem as well.
I also really like the bit where it goes on to have them talk about the Haradrim soldier and weather he came willingly or was brough into doing this through coin like the men of Umbar. Same for the men of Rhun.
I think it's Faramir with the 'a' pronounced like cat rather then car. And don't forget that although Frodo is 50 he still looks 'well preserved' since he's had the ring for a while at that point. :)
It's also a lot easier on the cast and crew to shoot the more dynamic scenes during the day
I would have liked to see Frodo and Sam's relationship portrayed more accurately. I know they couldn't have included everything but some of those changes, Frodo sending Sam away for instance, still rub me the wrong way since book Frodo would never have done that. While it wouldn't have been out of character even for book Gollum to try to make it look as though Sam had eaten their last rations, I think book Frodo would have seen through that because he would have known about Gollum's history of lies and deceit.
I think the worst change in the movies is the Frodo-Sam relationship, and next worst was Faramir. Sam and Faramir are my favorite characters in the books, so seeing them desecrated Is tough.
I still love the movies though, despite these two major flaws!
Isn’t it crazy how much we can love the movies even with the changes? 😂 some of my favorite movies ever.
@@factorfantasyweekly Well, they are really good movies. They're just lacking a bit as adaptations.
I think Frodo's attitude to Sam is good for the movie as it shows the effect of the Ring, Frodo's fight against it and explains why Gollum is how he is. Frodo is even showing some of Gollum's duality. In the book, this can be explained so isn't needed.
I think that PJ was trying to set up three points of tension for Frodo: 1. Frodo was afraid that he would turn into Gollum and every time Sam criticized Gollum, he was unknowingly condemning Frodo. 2. He needs Gollum to lead him into Mordor and Sam couldn't keep his cool enough to let Gollum do that job. 3. There was a real chance that Sam would be led astray in some form by the Ring and Frodo wanted to protect him from that. PJ leaned heaviest on the first thread while merely hinting at the other two, which was the wrong choice in my opinion. I really appreciate the book's portrayal of Frodo and Sam both knowing Gollum was plotting something and openly discussing their concerns with each other instead of going off half-cocked.
Yea I like the portrayal of Frodo wanting to have hope for gollum. Obviously he’s witnessing his predecessor and doesn’t want to fall to the same things. It’s good writing for the movie!
I like that the movies made Gollum more sympathetic in the movie, only to contrast his relationship to the Ring with Frodo’s. I think the movies take it too far and make us think there is a difference between Gollum and Sméagol. The thought that Sméagol is on Frodo’s side is misleading, when in reality both sides are biding their time in order to get the Ring. The Sméagol side is more concerned with the promise it made to the Ring. While I appreciate the movie trying to show the potential for Gollum to change, I’d have like to see the films be more deliberate with Sméagol betraying the hobbits.
The movies did such a good job of making the Smeagol side of Gollum sympathetic, for a little bit, that it's easy to forget that it was Smeagol, not Gollum that killed Deagol when the ring was found. Toward the end of the journey when Gollum attacked Frodo Frodo said "Smeagol promised", and Smeagol/Gollum replied "Smeagol lied." implying that even the Smeagol half was planning to betray Frodo at some point.
Their relationship in the book reminds me a lot of David and Jonathan from the Bible.
Great example!
I've heard that Amazon are doing The Bible next, but in a contemporary way. They are saying that it's the book that God SHOULD have written.
Agreed! Such a beautiful, pure love and devotion that Sam has in his heart. There’s even one instance in the book where Sam is keeping watch and he looks over at Frodo and just thinks to himself, “I love him.“
it’s really a great poverty for our culture to have twisted filial love to point that it assumes that love must be erotic. We can’t project our modern interpretation onto Tolkien. Every time I hear the story of David and Jonathan, I am reminded of Sam and Frodo, and vice versa.
@@fr.andygutierrez5356 I agree. The Bible is very consistent in its condemnation of homosexuality, but that wouldn't stop modern film-makers from shipping David and Jonathan as a couple. I dread to think what they would make of Jesus's relationship with Mary Magdalen.
As a parent to 4 free roaming bunnies I always skip this chapter / scene in the movie / book.
Hahaha 💀
Yes, i had previously read Watership Down just before I read The Lord of the Rings, put me off eating bunnys for a while.
Poor Sam gets done dirty by the films. He just comes off as a dim-witted bully instead of an under-educated person who learns and grows and eventually becomes one of the 3 most important people in the Shire. Also, no Oliphant poetry! They certainly had an opportunity here and missed it.
Grey as a mouse,
Big as a house,
Nose like a snake,
I make the earth shake,
As I tramp through the grass;
Trees crack as I pass.
With horns in my mouth
I walk in the South,
Flapping big ears.
Beyond count of years
I stump round and round,
Never lie on the ground,
Not even to die.
Oliphaunt am I,
Biggest of all,
Huge, old, and tall.
If ever you’d met me
You wouldn’t forget me.
If you never do,
You won’t think I’m true;
But old Oliphaunt am I,
And I never lie.
_-The Black Gate Is Closed_
I think you‘re pronouncing Faramir correctly. Tolkien inspired his name by norse and germanic mythology, not English mythology. And therefore it’s not likely that Tolkien wanted the name spoken in an English pronunciation but rather a germanic pronunciation, which would be how you pronounced it.
Also I think the films did all Hobbits aside from Frodo and Bilbo dirty. Most of all Pippin and Sam. In the book they’re not comic relief characters but serious characters who impact the story in an important way. Especially Sam.
Low-key Frodo and Sam's relationship in the movies came off more like best friend/ brothers like Merry and Pippin but enough for people to make romantic fan fiction about them, let's be honest though, Frodo and Sam's relationship was definitely one of the best things about Peter Jackson's movies
To me pronunciation is far less important if I understand what you mean.
It's only mispronounced if nobody knows what you're talking about.
😊
Frenemies 🥵👉👌
Jackson's films are better than the books. That's right I said it.
😮