You know, you *could* have a Batman game where you don't fly around the room at Mach 5, destroying 20 thugs at once. I love the Arkham series, but it's combat is probably the strongest Batman has ever looked outside of any Batman empowered by external sources i.e. Hellbat suit or Lantern Rings. That's really my only gripe when it comes to Arkham Batman being a "bad" adaptation of the character.
Where basically it's only criminals on the island or in the city, or criminals+mercenaries. I don't quite remember if civilians were evacuated or something for Origins but you get the point. It's not like he's beating up innocents. Even if innocents would probably fall prey to mob mentality and also loot & riot... we don't have to worry about that moral gray area, because they aren't in the 3 games considered canon. (Honestly, I think Origins should be, but it seems mostly ignored by Rocksteady. Then again, SSKTJL shouldn't be... so who cares what Rocksteady thinks, anyway? Lol)
@@Paradox-es3blorigins is canon to the arkham games. Rocksteady literally asked Montreal to make it for them, plus there was a curfew and snow storm as heard in the beginning cutscene
@@Yourfat247 In Origins? Yeah, maybe you experience the training directly but that doesn't make it more Batman. He doesn't flip and dip Arkham-style in the comics, movies, or TV shows.
The fact of the matter is also that these games don’t depict the norm of Batman’s patrols. They depict situations where the ratio of criminal/good guy is heavily screwed towards the criminals. He’s obviously beating more people up because they outnumber those who he can save.
He actually saved Jack Ryder 3 times canonically, you can find him getting assaulted by thugs in the beginning of the game if you decide to free roam instead of go right to the courthouse.
Another thing to note about the whole "batman didnt save many people in AC," HE LITERALLY STOPPED STRANGE FROM DESTROYING THE ENTIRE PRISON, WHICH SAVED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE Edit: Also he helped stop Joker from poisoning MILLIONS of people after the end of the game
@@Sai-gp3pqquincy sharp, a firefighter, a Nurse, Three nurses, jack ryder 3 times, all the zsasz victims, mad hatters kidnapped girl, political prisoners, vicki vale, an entire city, and gotham blood banks so more than him and four people
While watching The atomsmith's video, the video feels like when you only watch 25% of the Arkham games cutscenes without context to the world or to what's happening
Overall I think the Atomsmith makes a fair point that the Arkham batman is less empathetic and caring than the BTAS-continuity batman but I think he greatly exaggerates the degree of this. As you say, some of that stuff gets pushed to the side a bit given the fact that it is a videogame and not a TV show/movie
No he doesn't. Not really. Listen whether we like it or not, we have to admit that the animated series is more child friendly. So obviously you'll have Batman being more compassionate hell even his villians are less psychotic. That same criticism doesn't hold up for the arkham games in the slightest because of the different atmosphere and intense situation. Hell some of us Batman fans are hoping that he starts killing these guys.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Well no. Batman shouldn't kill cus it ruins his character. Unless you mean of course in real life in a meta sense obvs if his villains could be killed then Gotham would be fine.
I mean the people that want Batman to start killing Im not sure Batman which his no kill rule is a giant part of his character you may want to stick with Punisher if you want a vigilantie that kills.@@Rengokuo4o6
Bro really picked up a microphone and just proceeded to spit the most fire lies I ever heard in my life. Batman doesn’t care when he literally trusted Jim Gordon to shoot him directly in the middle of his chest just so he could save Barbara. Then afterward protected the entire police station from being eradicated. But nah… he doesn’t care.
@dionysisnance4204 Yeah, I noticed a lot of similarities between Insomniac Spider-man and Arkham Batman (story wise, structure wise, and the world feels real in both their sagas).
He’s totally emotionless throughout all the games though, he’s like what little boys think a man is supposed and they can’t cry. Bro had Talia die right in front of him and got over it immediately, there’s no follow-up.
Dude didnt you watch the video he little goes over all the emotional seans for Red Hood, Barbara, Nightwing not to mention his panic when Alfrid is dying in Arkham Origins.@@venividi8523
@@venividi8523obviously you weren't paying attention in AK, its obvious if you pay attention be never stopped grieving her death. "He's like what little boys think a man is" uuuuuh I think you forgot we're talking about a comic book character here 😂
@@venividi8523bro batman has more emotion than you believe. He’s like what men actually are but as a superhero. He actively is put in a far worse situation and fight immediately after talia dies and doesn’t even talk to Gordon at the end of the game. Don’t even start with knight
I mean sure, there's not too much to him, but at the same time we know enough about him to care about the character, especially with how the initial Arkham Sequels expanded upon his lore/people around him.
Haven’t seen the video yet, but I wish the rocksteady games gave us more to work with. I will always appreciate origins for giving us a more personal story with Bruce and Alfred.
@@n4825 I agree. In some areas he’s underbaked, Hell Arkham Knight is full of underdeveloped subplots and The Bat Family Dynamic is underdeveloped. We’re given the surface level points to connect the dots, which isn’t bad, but it’s not a lot.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Then you’re shit out of luck because as early as Arkham Asylum, we’re introduced to Oracle being in Batman’s ear throughout the game’s narrative. So they’re established in the first two games, so therefore, Chekov’s gun applies.
Arkham Batman has the best Batman games I have ever seen, the music is great, the gameplay is amazing, the open world makes you feel like you're in it, and the villains actually feel like threats cause you're basically the one fighting them. I would love to see Arkham Superman get a game if still possible, if not, then I wouldn't be against them starting fresh alongside a new Batman.
somebody mentioned in the comments Batman in the Arkham games is his most stressful and on more quiet nights when the player isn’t playing he is more compassionate
True like in city he is dying of the virus and knight he is trying to work out who the Arkham Knight is and trying to stop Scarecrow’s weapon. Meanwhile he has fears of becoming the Joker.
The whole “he should be showing empathy to criminals” falls apart so easily. Like the video said, he does show empathy to the rogues gallery who deserve it. And even the regular criminals he takes down are either actively committing a crime, talking about committing one, or talking about a past crime. And then the stories the games revolve around basically have Batman almost exclusively interacting with criminals who are trying to kill him and others. He isn’t breaking someone’s arm over jaywalking or graffiti, he’s stopping dangerous criminals with weapons who are active threats. Even in Arkham City where the enter city is a prison of sorts, it’s been overtaken by the prisoners with territories being taken over by different factions (which is all part of protocol 10). If he doesn’t equally criticize every other superhero for not approaching criminals with guns and supervillains with high kill counts with warm hugs and baked goods, then he’s a hypocrite who’s argument falls apart before it even began. And in Knight, he had Tim working on a potential cure for the Joker Infection to save the lives of the infected people as well as preventing himself from going off the deep end. And just because he makes a few mistakes, that doesn’t make him a bad Batman, it just means he’s human with flaws and can get emotionally compromised. Him prioritizing Thalia over Protocol 10 was shown as a moment of weakness, something that Alfred had to convince him not to do because he’s Batman and he saves people.
Kind of reminds me of a dude who is one of those dudes who criticizes Batman for his no-kill rule but doesn't do the same for someone like Spider-Man and Superman.
"He isn't breaking someone's arm over jaywalking or graffiti, he's stopping dangerous criminals with weapons who are active threats." Exactly this man. So many of the early day critiques from the City days were a ton of the "batman beats up the mentally ill people!" words but like these are fully grown adults who've done god awful things. They have funny little conversations sure but they're actually scumbags, not even in a somewhat way, they just are actually evil.
@@derekpayneszubliminals7723that’s Batman haters for you, especially for Arkham. In insomniac Spider-Man DLC, Peter actually says his no kill rule and stops sable and yuri for killing. Hell in Spider-Man 2 his no kill rule is how carnage escaped since he decided to fight yuri instead but they are silent about that
But that means Batman doesn't show empathy to villians, whom he wants to save. He treated Killer crock like a human. He treated Mr Freeze like a human. Even Joker. So there's no reason why he would call Zsasz an animal
I just want to thank you for calling out that absolute bullshit of a video. He literally just cherry picked points and at that it seemed as if atomsmith didn't even pay attention during the games Atomsmith just dosent understand Batman and also the Arkham games. For those who didn't watch his vid, he literally complains that Batman went to save talia instead of stopping the Arkham city missiles (Which is false, as Batman stopping the missiles was literally the first thing he done) He also complained that batman called Zsasz (A serial killer who literally dissects people for fun) an animal
I'm not trying to say the video was great, but Batman absolutely did try to save Talia first. The only reason he stopped protocol 10 first was because Alfred stopped him by force (used the Batcomputer to make sure Batman couldn't activate Talias tracker)
@@brocksells197 tbf we have seen this kind of behavior in Animated series as well, which is the gold standard of Batman. When Batman finds love and decides to marry, he declares he's going to stop being Batman, which shows that he does prioritize his love more than protecting the city as Batman. Of course the marriage doesn't happen (the girl turns out to be a temporary clone or something made by some villain), and Bruce comes back to being Batman again. I forgot the exact episode, but even Batgirl and Robin/Nightwing were surprised that Bruce decided to retire after deciding to marry.
@@Dipj01 What are you saying? It is not great character writing by itself, for an example; if a character's whole deal and main motive is avenge the death of his family and he's obsessive about accomplishing it to the crazy degree, he leaves any semblance of a normal-life behind and he trains relentlessly to point, where he masters every field that he studied on, but all of sudden; he leaves all of that, because he got a crush on a girl that we barely know about; that's not a character-writing, that's character-assassination. Not saying that, it can't be done; but it got be earned well.
@@lakshaykochhar6799 I think it's kind of fine. It's shown in Mask of phantasm that he finally jumped to being Batman after losing the love of his life (he was already on the fence about leaving his normal life and becoming a vigilante, but losing her was the last straw, all semblance of living a normal life was gone from his perspective after that). So it kind of makes sense that when he found love again, he'd want to try have a life he had hoped for but abandoned a long time ago. It's fine to have some flaws in a character. It makes them human. Batman eventually wanting to live a normal life and quit being a vigilante after finding love is fine. This even good from a writing perspective because it brings drama and conflict. Also, Bruce has a tendency of wanting and arranging a family (because of his parents' death). Otherwise he wouldn't have made the Batfamily too.
Modern audiences need quipy, light-hearted heroes and tragic, misunderstood villains. Why would Bruce or Batman be making jokes when, quite literally, everything he loves is being destroyed. Why would I have sympathy of serial killers? Really shows you the lens he is viewing this game through.
I think part of the misunderstanding is that we only see Arkham Batman in his worst hours. We don't see Batman patrolling Gotham on a normal evening; we don't see him stopping ordinary, petty crimes or saving innocent civilians. Each of the games (except maybe Origins, which I don't remember as well) takes place on a single night which are some of the worst nights of his life. That's why we don't see him saving as many ordinary individuals, why we don't see as much of his empathy, definitely why we don't see as much of his Bruce Wayne persona, and probably why we don't see as much of the Batfamily. Also, Tim Drake is treated horribly, but I don't blame Batman for that; I blame whoever on the creative who thought that haircut in Knight was a good idea.
@@godzillazfriction ah yes the hired goons of criminals (that are called supervillains) who constantly kill and take innocent people hostage, cause riots, break out of prisons and kill most of the prison guards, etc. etc. (you could write a short novel about the things these guys do) are actually not bad guys... from a certain subjected, superficial point of outlook
@@soociesoocie yes im totally arguing from a superficial standpoint of them not being 'baf guys' rather than arguing against what's 'bad' or Evil, which goes to the inversed contrast of what Evil is.
Something else that is always overlooked is that Barbara blatantly says that batman makes talia his entire focus wherever she is involved with anything so the fact he is ready to completely ignore protocol 10 for talia makes since in the story
Why would he think Batman's less empathetic when we've only seen him during crises He's rarely in a situation where he CAN be nice, and I guarantee if Victor Zsasz tried to turn over a new leaf he'd support him.
Honestly about the whole Bruce thing not being from the animated series is kinda stupid in all honesty because does that mean your gonna criticize pattinsons Batman for the same thing not all interpretations have to be the exact thing they can change things to switch it up a bit plus I’m sure Pattinson will be more charismatic in the next movie and be the Bruce Wayne we all know and love
I think theres fair points to each of the points, not that I agree with most of the sentiments but I can see the view. My main problem was the selfish one when Bruce wanted to save Talia over trying to stop the assaults. I didn't even question it all those years ago when I wasn't as open minded as I am now, he's being selfish, yeah, cause he's only human. Of course he's gonna want to save his lover first. Any hero would wanna do that, even Clark. Alfred stepping in was what ultimately saved all the folk but I'm just saying that the "flaw" of Bruce wanting to be selfish for wanting to save Talia first, is what adds to him, not takes away.
I also forgot to mention dude was given Joker's toxin and fear toxin plus years experience making him colder towards humans and the exact same thing happened to the BTAS batman with him becoming colder due to years of experience
"Batman doesn't seem to care about the thugs he's fighting" Spider man literally air comboing a thug and finishing him off with a hack kick to the trought with full force.
“He’s a rich guy who dresses up in a bat suit and beats up criminals, that’s not very sane” No shit genius that’s why they’re comics and fiction. U could do this for any fiction u don’t like
I think another important point is that we only see him during 4 separate nights of his career, over the span of like 12 years. Considering the medium and just how little we're shown of this Bruce's life outside of being forced to take down his entire rogues gallery in a single night, it's pretty hard to make a lot of statements about how he is when he can relax
Watching some parts of his video and all I could get was just nitpicks or misinformation of the games. Like I’m NOT trying to hate on Atom, but if you wanna make a video why you (Atom) dislike a certain thing, please and I mean please do your research
I mean tbh it makes total sense that arkham batman isn’t as empathetic to his villains when he’s been doing it for over a decade by Arkham knight, meaning a huge chunk of his villains have had chance after chance to reform but are still up to their same old shit. I’d be pretty done with them too if i were him
the fact that Batman saves criminals and doesn't kill them, doesn't mean he can't be angry at them or be cruel with them. he doesn't think anyone deserves to die, not that they don't deserve punishment
Thank you for making this video!! I love Atomsmiths content, it's actually what got me into modding the arkham games. But that video didn't sit right with me and I'm glad someone has pointed this out!
i commented this on the original video, but it's worth repeating here: Batman trying dropping everything to go save Talia is foreshadowed in Arkham City. When He first starts tracking the league of assassins member, when he tells Oracle about it, she said (in regards to Talia), "What is about that woman that makes her instantly the most important person in your world?". We are told point blank that such an event would happen, and then it happens, but suddenly it's out of character?
Bruh, that line was so retarded. Like people think Bruce sharing money is what would make poverty stop. That's so stupid. Bruce is the one sponsoring all Gothams schools, and providing job opportunities by expanding his company in Gotham. That's all he needs to do. No amount of charity will help Gotham city. You need to give people the ability to fish which is Education and job opportunities which is what he does already. I'm so sick of that, "he would do more good as Bruce wayne" nonsense.
If there's anyone that I would blame in Batman comics, it's the government and GCPD; Batman did everything that he supposed to, but they can't even put bullets in Joker's head properly.
Alot of people seem to miss batman’s idea of life being sacred no matter who’s it is? He also gets pissed in the gotham royal hotel when he see’s like 10 bodies
The biggest issue with atom's take is he almost exclusively talks about arkham city and asylum batman, discarding all the leg work knight did to correct his character, cuz in context to city, he's sorta got a point, he's extremely robotic in city, and stoic to a fault, but knight he's wayyy better, its just in that game he's literally going insane, and is at his most ruthless/efficient, ontop of having the most peak animations and mechanics for the sake of cool factor
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord the fuck? I mean origins did a good job of portraying a young hot headed bruce, but knight was perfect at displaying care for innocent lives, like he actually gave a shit in that game But you didn't really give any examples of how it ruined it so good argument I guess 😂
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord How exactly did it 'ruined' his character? I mean, you can say it might've regressed his character from Origins, because in Origins; he learns to rely on other people in his life and stop pushing them away, but he needed to relearn that in Knight; but he had a pretty good reason for that regression with a psycho-clown trying to take over his body.
How is preventing Protocol 10 not saving people? He saved hundreds of lives, and probably even thousands if you factor in the rest of Gotham and Metropolis (and probably even more cities that Hugo Strange and R'as were planning to invade). I think we need a new game because this guy is getting confused.
“He didn’t save that many people in Arkham City”. He helped all of those innocent people plus the city is literally filled with every criminal that’s in Gotham.
Saying that batman is a bad batman for going after talia is bad because it shows that he has some humanity, he's flawed, and not some superpowered human that does pirouettes to fight crime and only cares about the mission
1:55 bro started defending victor Zsas of all characters after Batman called him an animal like Zsas isn't a serial killer that Mark's himself after he gets a kill implying that he takes pleasure in ending people's lives like bro is pure evil.
He mentioned that Arkham Batman is less empathetic and caring than the Animated series Batman. But he completely neglected to mention that in every Arkham game, Batman is locked in hell incarnate, rarely interacts with civilians, and is understandably having some of the worst days of his life. It makes sense that he wouldn’t be in the best of moods. In the animated series, we follow Batman during the average day in Gotham. Not a hellscape prison or an evacuated fear-gassed city, so of course he’s a happier Batman that interacts with more civilians. It makes me wish we would’ve gotten an Arkham game that didn’t evacuate the city and lock Batman in with the worst of the worst.
Atomsmiths video has a ton of problems, but tbh i agree with his overall sentiment. Arkham Batman as a person leaves a lot to be desired. The way hes written leans into appealing more towards general video game power fantasy. Most of his relationships/dynamics are established offscreen or just assumed based on other Batman media. Because you're the Batman, we dont have time to unpack all that there's a city that needs saving. While insisting on doing things alone isnt new to Batman, this version dials it up to such insane degrees that I genuinely can't buy the idea that he trained 3 Robins given how every single time Dick or Tim shows up its always "I had it under control" or "You're needed back in gotham/bludhaven". Because you're the Batman, you don't need help and you certainly dont want to play as Batman's sidekicks when you could be playing the main man himself. I'm of the mind that Bruce Wayne is just as important as Batman for characterisation, not so much the playboy, but along the lines of Arkham Origins whenever hes in the cave and the "persona" drops for a while. But Bruce is almost completely absent in most of these games, its just "Batman". Why? Because you're the Batman, you don't want to waste time not being in the suit, not punching bad guys and gliding through the city. And while sympathy towards villains is a tricky subject, alot of the interesting dynamics Batman has with his rogues are absent here, with him often even kicking them when theyre already down. Because you're the Batman, we dont want you the player to feel anything but satisfaction when suplexing Mr Freeze. In the context of a video game he works perfectly fine, but theres a reason why most of the discourse around him is generally just about stuff like "He beat his villains in a single night"
To comment on the Nightwing stuff I'd argue for the Harley Quinn DLC it's more of a case of ludo narrative dissonance because when you do "beat him" he ends up being fine and still ready to go until Ivy uses her vines to take him away so you could contextualise the fight as Harley stalling Nightwing, but I don't think avoiding Nightwing completely would have been a fun combat sequence. Also, I thought Nightwing intentionally got himself captured by Penguin (at least one of the times)
Every point made by The Atomsmith is just nonsense. Dude really talks about the things he doesn't remember or analyzed in the wrong way or compated to the Batman TAS (like wtf). Like every point he made is a lie, a mistake or some made-up cringe. I'm not a fan-boy or smth, just don't like when people pretend to be experts in things they don't understand or can't even explain properly.
@MEnterprises01 I thought that Atom's video was bait but apparently he's serious. He recently made a rebuttal video to your video and tbh it's not really good. Are you going to make a video on it?
i can get the points atom makes, he just struggled to explain it, i feel like batman just doesnt feel like a human with actual emotions outside of a handful of lines. i think arkham origins did a great job in humanizing bruce, it just feels as though they kinda ignored/ threw away the characterization of batman's character from origins (i know city and asylum was made before, it just remains kind of the same throughout he other three games), im not sure i even sure if i explained it properly😭
This. Batman in Rocksteady's trilogy is boring as a human, especially in the first two games. That's why I don't get the whole hype about Dini's Arkham Batman tbh.
true but in the context of arkham asylum and city it kind of makes sense why there’s not a lot of scenes showing batman’s deeper emotions because of the constant action and running around
I just think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of who Batman is. He is not great at showing emotions. He shows he cares about people threw actions most of the time. If people want him more expressive their are other heroes. Origins is great but I think it is clear it is a younger Batman. If he was like that all the time, I don't really think he would be what I think of as Batman
Arkham batman is literally the best batman of all time. Note that i wont count suicide squad. Arkham asylum hes beaten titan henchman, bane, titan joker, scarecrow, killer croc, and poison ivy, and he was dealing with a bunch of psycos. Arkham city he survived the demon trial, beaten solomon grundy, clayface, mr freeze, ras al ghul, and stopped protocol 10. Arkham origins hes beaten every assassin's especially in his early years he manages to beat shiva, deathstroke, and bane who are considered very dangerous. Arkham knight he stopped an entire army that was trained specifically to beat batman and yet they still lost, even the knight came up short despite predicting his tactics. All this happened in just one night
He should MAYBE show more compassion to Victor Fries. I honestly think the doctor wouldn't be a villain/would stop being one of his wife was cured, or at least in the process of being helped. For such a "genius" I'm really disappointed Bruce has NEVER (as far as I know) just gone, "Hey, Victor... how about you come work for Wayne Enterprises? I'll find your research for a cure for Nora, and you only have to occasionally help with our research until she's cured. Afterwards, the job will still be yours if you want it. Perhaps after a bit of a vacation, to make up for lost time with your wife." (Basically implying Victor would just straight up be a researcher permanently.) like yeah, maybe this means Bruce reveals his identity. How else would he get Fries a guaranteed job at Wayne Enterprises? But wouldn't it be worth it?
End if arkham knight. Scarecrow injects him with fear toxin, goes through his fear of being the joker, for a minute become the joker, he gets injected again, goes through jokers fear and batman literally locks him isn his mind. So yes arkham batman is the strongest.
My main issue with Arkham Batman is that he's a huge dick in Arkham Knight. I know he's pushing his allies away because he fears of turning and hurting them, I'm just not a fan of that trope. I hate the trope of Batman pushing away his allies during extreme crises so he can do it himself.
It's either he does that or they die just like Jason Todd or they end up crippled like Barbara he has more reason to do that than not so whether or not you hate the trope the fact that you're out here having an issue with what Batman does proves that you did not pay attention
That’s very in character for batman though. He pushes people away because he doesn’t want them to die like his parents. And even with sidekicks, he still prefers to work alone sometimes
This isn’t just Arkham batman most Batman adaptations do this too he’s not like other superheroes who can save the city and their friends at the same time one of batman’s character flaws is that he can’t do everything alone but doesn’t want his friends to get hurt helping him
He's pushing them away because he's afraid of losing them. In Arkham VR he has nightmare of himself snapping Nightwing's neck and then he's constantly getting doses of fear toxin making his hallucinations worse he already lost control on the airship with scarecrows men I'm sure he doesn't want to snap on any of allies.
Another issue with his video is that most of his "points" are referring to Arkham City, which is arguably the worst depiction of Batman as a character in the series. (Excpet for maybe Arkham Asylum)
Why is Asylum and City considered 'worst' depiction of Batman in your opinion? Is it because he refers to mentally-ill criminals as 'animals', because that would make a lot of different versions of Batman, 'worst'.
@@lakshaykochhar6799 that's not even close to what I was saying. I just think Batman is barley a character in those games. He doesn't really have a personality or character Development. Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight are good examples of him having a personality and character growth
I think atom would of really benefitted from having a script to really show what he means and why. Because at the moment he's just saying what ever comes to mind without thinking it through. There's nothing wrong with speaking his mind but I'm just saying if he had a script then it would make more sense
I'd like to defend Atomsmith's take about Arkham Batman's disregard for the villains: Why does Batman not just kill some of his villains when they're so terrible and cannot be changed (to deserve to be called animals)? They always break out and kill more people, he knows their pattern so why not put a permanent stop to it and save hundreds of lives. Or why go out of his way to save Joker even when his death wouldn't be on Bruce's hands (blown up by Bane)? Is it really just a selfish choice to protect his self-image of someone who never lets people die on his watch? Or does he actually want them to get help because he believes that one day, with proper care, even people like Joker or Victor Zsasz could be healed and integrated back into society? Isn't it hypocritical to call them animals and then choose not to kill them to protect other people from them? We put down wild / rabid animals for a reason when they become a threat to society. It's fascinating how different people interpret the same character differently based on their own moral values.
@@bloodymares I don't think that batman truly believes that. Zsaz did just hold someone as a hostage. And given the fact that batman wanted to save even joker, someone much worse than a serial killer, i believe that batman doesn't believe that.
People get way too obsessed with the whole "they disrespected the bat famile" thing. Robin was an easter egg at most in the Arkham city story - he was there to extend the lore. Batman sends him out to help in gotham. done. In Knight, he's lost Barbara... he sees it as HIS fault. That's why he locks up Tim, that's why he's shitty that Nightwing is there. He's lost Barbara, and he's afraid of losing more because he blames himself for her kidnapping. It's a BATMAN game, it's going to focus on Batman. The Bat family are extensions of Batman... bruh
What tells us he didn't try exactly ? Is there any evidence in Arkham knight that he didn't try, the more likely answer was that he tried but couldn't find him.
Did he just say Batman didn’t save anyone in Arkham City? He finished the game right? You know, the part where protocol 10 does go through and the prisoners I don’t know… LIVE.
6:20 just wanted to remind you guys while you’re not thinking about it that Batman murders Tim Drake in the suicide squad off screen. Congratulations, I just reminded you again why you hate that game.
The difference between Batman and Spider-Man is that Batman's been in the hero business a lot longer. He shouldn't NEED convincing. That was an out-of-character moment for Batman, he KNOWS BETTER. On top of that, it wasn't Alfred, Barbara, Jim, Tim, or even Selina, it was Talia. Batman's relationship with Talia--from what we've seen--has been uneasy, at best...not someone I'd expect to be at the top of his "people I care about" list. And if this version of Talia is a date r@pist like other recent versions, then so much the worse.
We only see this batman at literally the worst nights of his life, i think it's plenty fair if he doesn't get to show his bruce wayne side a lot because of the stress, the time restraint, needing to think his next move etc. In general he has way more important things to be doing
How would he be able to move the body in the first place? Besides, it’s not even real, most likely he’d eventually do it, kinda like how he looks the joker infected
@@Vitallor go into the room and retrieve the body. You can clearly see the door that connects both rooms, and there’s a wall of glass between them. But sure, I guess it’s just impossible to get inside🤣🤣 That’s not the point. He believes it to be real. And he still just leaves her body there. Saying he’d “eventually do it”, isn’t a good excuse. He just left one of his most trusted and longtime allies’ corpse in some random room. He could easily have retrieved the body and let the Bat-Wing take her back to back to the Bat-Cave. Or even leave her corpse at the Movies Studios or G.C.P.D. There’s absolutely no excuse for this
While arkham batman is indeed a terrible version of the character, atomsmith's points are not a good way to criticize his character. There are multiple other things to talk about: his lack of Intelligence, batman's atupid descisions, his lack of preparing for his enemies, etc.
Arkham batman is arguably the best batman, especially because of how he takes out his entire rouges gallery in a more realistic way than how the other 'batmen' do it, such as how batman from 'batman the brave and the bold' can just run through all his toughest enemies and one shot them while he will struggle with one of them in the next episode, and how he does it with no other worldly interference, such as the justice league or magic powers. He might have been the best batman until suicide squad ruined him
Your mentioning good points about Arkham batman and I think that you're right and atomsmith is wrong Arkham batman is the best batman he is the goat he is the king he is an absolute legend and i think that atomsmith got the wrong ideas about Arkham,s batman character
He beats the crap out of people? Yeah, it's a video game!
You know, you *could* have a Batman game where you don't fly around the room at Mach 5, destroying 20 thugs at once.
I love the Arkham series, but it's combat is probably the strongest Batman has ever looked outside of any Batman empowered by external sources i.e. Hellbat suit or Lantern Rings. That's really my only gripe when it comes to Arkham Batman being a "bad" adaptation of the character.
Where basically it's only criminals on the island or in the city, or criminals+mercenaries. I don't quite remember if civilians were evacuated or something for Origins but you get the point. It's not like he's beating up innocents. Even if innocents would probably fall prey to mob mentality and also loot & riot... we don't have to worry about that moral gray area, because they aren't in the 3 games considered canon. (Honestly, I think Origins should be, but it seems mostly ignored by Rocksteady. Then again, SSKTJL shouldn't be... so who cares what Rocksteady thinks, anyway? Lol)
@@MaigenMaylightthe suit and training is literally shown and played right in front of you 💀
@@Paradox-es3blorigins is canon to the arkham games. Rocksteady literally asked Montreal to make it for them, plus there was a curfew and snow storm as heard in the beginning cutscene
@@Yourfat247 In Origins? Yeah, maybe you experience the training directly but that doesn't make it more Batman. He doesn't flip and dip Arkham-style in the comics, movies, or TV shows.
I don’t think that guy was paying attention during the games💀
I mean he probably wasn't
Definitely not. I love his content but he brings up some of the dumbest points that like casual viewers would
The fact of the matter is also that these games don’t depict the norm of Batman’s patrols. They depict situations where the ratio of criminal/good guy is heavily screwed towards the criminals. He’s obviously beating more people up because they outnumber those who he can save.
He actually saved Jack Ryder 3 times canonically, you can find him getting assaulted by thugs in the beginning of the game if you decide to free roam instead of go right to the courthouse.
Where can you find him
@@aryss.2 If I remember correctly, it was either around the area Bruce Wayne got jumped by a bunch of inmates or around the courthouse area.
@@suryasingh9738its the VERy beginning as u cant free roam
@@anarchemy7905 Yeah, you would have to suit up as Batman first.
@@suryasingh9738 so u enter arkham city and save ryder and suit up. U save him again? A second time?
Another thing to note about the whole "batman didnt save many people in AC," HE LITERALLY STOPPED STRANGE FROM DESTROYING THE ENTIRE PRISON, WHICH SAVED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE
Edit: Also he helped stop Joker from poisoning MILLIONS of people after the end of the game
Besides him and 4 others that’s it
You forgot to mention that Batman saved Jack Ryder 3 times (technically 4) 2 during Arkham City and 1 in Arkham Knight
@@Sai-gp3pqquincy sharp, a firefighter, a Nurse, Three nurses, jack ryder 3 times, all the zsasz victims, mad hatters kidnapped girl, political prisoners, vicki vale, an entire city, and gotham blood banks so more than him and four people
Also, most of those people were prisoners
@@mrbigpapa7029still people
While watching The atomsmith's video, the video feels like when you only watch 25% of the Arkham games cutscenes without context to the world or to what's happening
Tbf he has only played through the games I think only a handful of times
And mostly does modded videos for knight and the others lol
@TheSsjJoker you cant really say tbf with that, if I don't know much about something, I probably wouldn't make a video critiquing it
He has a point he's not emotional enough
@@skiburc2252huh
@@TheSsjJokerI guess
Overall I think the Atomsmith makes a fair point that the Arkham batman is less empathetic and caring than the BTAS-continuity batman but I think he greatly exaggerates the degree of this. As you say, some of that stuff gets pushed to the side a bit given the fact that it is a videogame and not a TV show/movie
And to be fair, most of the Arkham characters are more serious than their BTAS counterparts. It’s suppose to be a darker universe
No he doesn't. Not really. Listen whether we like it or not, we have to admit that the animated series is more child friendly. So obviously you'll have Batman being more compassionate hell even his villians are less psychotic. That same criticism doesn't hold up for the arkham games in the slightest because of the different atmosphere and intense situation. Hell some of us Batman fans are hoping that he starts killing these guys.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Well no. Batman shouldn't kill cus it ruins his character. Unless you mean of course in real life in a meta sense obvs if his villains could be killed then Gotham would be fine.
I mean the people that want Batman to start killing Im not sure Batman which his no kill rule is a giant part of his character you may want to stick with Punisher if you want a vigilantie that kills.@@Rengokuo4o6
@@brandonryan8177 nah, Batman killing won't really affect him. He killed before in the golden age.
Bro really picked up a microphone and just proceeded to spit the most fire lies I ever heard in my life. Batman doesn’t care when he literally trusted Jim Gordon to shoot him directly in the middle of his chest just so he could save Barbara. Then afterward protected the entire police station from being eradicated. But nah… he doesn’t care.
If it wasn't for arkham batman we won't have insomniac spiderman
and?
@@poopooman-q7r And he started something great, he paved the way for other superheroes to have games like this.
@dionysisnance4204 Yeah, I noticed a lot of similarities between Insomniac Spider-man and Arkham Batman (story wise, structure wise, and the world feels real in both their sagas).
@@suryasingh9738 That does not make Arkham Batman good
@@poopooman-q7r Why would superhero games take inspiration from a superhero game that wasn't good?
This batman defeated all of rogues gallery in one night
He’s totally emotionless throughout all the games though, he’s like what little boys think a man is supposed and they can’t cry. Bro had Talia die right in front of him and got over it immediately, there’s no follow-up.
@@venividi8523 Wouldn't say totally emotionless. He is pure anger in Origins he is calm in Asylum and City most of the time.
Dude didnt you watch the video he little goes over all the emotional seans for Red Hood, Barbara, Nightwing not to mention his panic when Alfrid is dying in Arkham Origins.@@venividi8523
@@venividi8523obviously you weren't paying attention in AK, its obvious if you pay attention be never stopped grieving her death.
"He's like what little boys think a man is" uuuuuh I think you forgot we're talking about a comic book character here 😂
@@venividi8523bro batman has more emotion than you believe. He’s like what men actually are but as a superhero. He actively is put in a far worse situation and fight immediately after talia dies and doesn’t even talk to Gordon at the end of the game. Don’t even start with knight
I mean sure, there's not too much to him, but at the same time we know enough about him to care about the character, especially with how the initial Arkham Sequels expanded upon his lore/people around him.
Haven’t seen the video yet, but I wish the rocksteady games gave us more to work with. I will always appreciate origins for giving us a more personal story with Bruce and Alfred.
@@n4825 I agree. In some areas he’s underbaked, Hell Arkham Knight is full of underdeveloped subplots and The Bat Family Dynamic is underdeveloped. We’re given the surface level points to connect the dots, which isn’t bad, but it’s not a lot.
@@gfilmer7150 the Batfamily being underdeveloped in the game is a plus for me though. I freaking hate the Batfamily.
@@Rengokuo4o6 Then you’re shit out of luck because as early as Arkham Asylum, we’re introduced to Oracle being in Batman’s ear throughout the game’s narrative. So they’re established in the first two games, so therefore, Chekov’s gun applies.
@@gfilmer7150 Fine. Since you love the Batfamily so much, why don't play Gotham knights. Huh?
Arkham Batman has the best Batman games I have ever seen, the music is great, the gameplay is amazing, the open world makes you feel like you're in it, and the villains actually feel like threats cause you're basically the one fighting them. I would love to see Arkham Superman get a game if still possible, if not, then I wouldn't be against them starting fresh alongside a new Batman.
somebody mentioned in the comments Batman in the Arkham games is his most stressful and on more quiet nights when the player isn’t playing he is more compassionate
But I can never get over the fact that he used fear gas to get his mystique back up that is forever lame
@@333hunnit8why?
@@333hunnit8 Why do you find it lame?
@@suryasingh9738 it’s just lame bruh at that point if you worried about your mystique just kill em to make em more afraid of you
True like in city he is dying of the virus and knight he is trying to work out who the Arkham Knight is and trying to stop Scarecrow’s weapon. Meanwhile he has fears of becoming the Joker.
The whole “he should be showing empathy to criminals” falls apart so easily. Like the video said, he does show empathy to the rogues gallery who deserve it. And even the regular criminals he takes down are either actively committing a crime, talking about committing one, or talking about a past crime. And then the stories the games revolve around basically have Batman almost exclusively interacting with criminals who are trying to kill him and others. He isn’t breaking someone’s arm over jaywalking or graffiti, he’s stopping dangerous criminals with weapons who are active threats. Even in Arkham City where the enter city is a prison of sorts, it’s been overtaken by the prisoners with territories being taken over by different factions (which is all part of protocol 10). If he doesn’t equally criticize every other superhero for not approaching criminals with guns and supervillains with high kill counts with warm hugs and baked goods, then he’s a hypocrite who’s argument falls apart before it even began.
And in Knight, he had Tim working on a potential cure for the Joker Infection to save the lives of the infected people as well as preventing himself from going off the deep end.
And just because he makes a few mistakes, that doesn’t make him a bad Batman, it just means he’s human with flaws and can get emotionally compromised. Him prioritizing Thalia over Protocol 10 was shown as a moment of weakness, something that Alfred had to convince him not to do because he’s Batman and he saves people.
Kind of reminds me of a dude who is one of those dudes who criticizes Batman for his no-kill rule but doesn't do the same for someone like Spider-Man and Superman.
"He isn't breaking someone's arm over jaywalking or graffiti, he's stopping dangerous criminals with weapons who are active threats."
Exactly this man. So many of the early day critiques from the City days were a ton of the "batman beats up the mentally ill people!" words but like these are fully grown adults who've done god awful things. They have funny little conversations sure but they're actually scumbags, not even in a somewhat way, they just are actually evil.
@@derekpayneszubliminals7723that’s Batman haters for you, especially for Arkham. In insomniac Spider-Man DLC, Peter actually says his no kill rule and stops sable and yuri for killing. Hell in Spider-Man 2 his no kill rule is how carnage escaped since he decided to fight yuri instead but they are silent about that
@@Yourfat247 Batman haters are annoying they clearly don't understand his character.
But that means Batman doesn't show empathy to villians, whom he wants to save. He treated Killer crock like a human. He treated Mr Freeze like a human. Even Joker. So there's no reason why he would call Zsasz an animal
I just want to thank you for calling out that absolute bullshit of a video. He literally just cherry picked points and at that it seemed as if atomsmith didn't even pay attention during the games
Atomsmith just dosent understand Batman and also the Arkham games.
For those who didn't watch his vid, he literally complains that Batman went to save talia instead of stopping the Arkham city missiles
(Which is false, as Batman stopping the missiles was literally the first thing he done)
He also complained that batman called Zsasz (A serial killer who literally dissects people for fun) an animal
I'm not trying to say the video was great, but Batman absolutely did try to save Talia first. The only reason he stopped protocol 10 first was because Alfred stopped him by force (used the Batcomputer to make sure Batman couldn't activate Talias tracker)
@@brocksells197 tbf we have seen this kind of behavior in Animated series as well, which is the gold standard of Batman. When Batman finds love and decides to marry, he declares he's going to stop being Batman, which shows that he does prioritize his love more than protecting the city as Batman. Of course the marriage doesn't happen (the girl turns out to be a temporary clone or something made by some villain), and Bruce comes back to being Batman again. I forgot the exact episode, but even Batgirl and Robin/Nightwing were surprised that Bruce decided to retire after deciding to marry.
@@Dipj01 I believe the villain was Poison Ivy. I think its also that episode that got the whole TNBA Ivy was theorized to be a clone.
@@Dipj01
What are you saying?
It is not great character writing by itself,
for an example; if a character's whole deal and main motive is avenge the death of his family and he's obsessive about accomplishing it to the crazy degree, he leaves any semblance of a normal-life behind and he trains relentlessly to point, where he masters every field that he studied on, but all of sudden;
he leaves all of that, because he got a crush on a girl that we barely know about; that's not a character-writing, that's character-assassination.
Not saying that, it can't be done; but it got be earned well.
@@lakshaykochhar6799 I think it's kind of fine. It's shown in Mask of phantasm that he finally jumped to being Batman after losing the love of his life (he was already on the fence about leaving his normal life and becoming a vigilante, but losing her was the last straw, all semblance of living a normal life was gone from his perspective after that).
So it kind of makes sense that when he found love again, he'd want to try have a life he had hoped for but abandoned a long time ago.
It's fine to have some flaws in a character. It makes them human. Batman eventually wanting to live a normal life and quit being a vigilante after finding love is fine. This even good from a writing perspective because it brings drama and conflict.
Also, Bruce has a tendency of wanting and arranging a family (because of his parents' death). Otherwise he wouldn't have made the Batfamily too.
I just finished replaying Arkham Asylum; It's hard to believe it’s been 15 years. It has aged quite well and was revolutionary for gaming.
Not to mention it’s artsyle
@@Yourfat247 I love the comic book artstyle during the pause menues.
That game did not age well
Modern audiences need quipy, light-hearted heroes and tragic, misunderstood villains. Why would Bruce or Batman be making jokes when, quite literally, everything he loves is being destroyed. Why would I have sympathy of serial killers? Really shows you the lens he is viewing this game through.
I think part of the misunderstanding is that we only see Arkham Batman in his worst hours. We don't see Batman patrolling Gotham on a normal evening; we don't see him stopping ordinary, petty crimes or saving innocent civilians. Each of the games (except maybe Origins, which I don't remember as well) takes place on a single night which are some of the worst nights of his life. That's why we don't see him saving as many ordinary individuals, why we don't see as much of his empathy, definitely why we don't see as much of his Bruce Wayne persona, and probably why we don't see as much of the Batfamily.
Also, Tim Drake is treated horribly, but I don't blame Batman for that; I blame whoever on the creative who thought that haircut in Knight was a good idea.
Arkham Batman is swarmed by bad guys left and right. He pretty much has no choice BUT to beat them all up.
I mean no he can easily incapacitate them with little to no force but he chooses to hammer fist the mentally insane
'bad guys' you're just as subjected towards the superficiality of your own outlook just as Atomsmith...
@@godzillazfriction ah yes the hired goons of criminals (that are called supervillains) who constantly kill and take innocent people hostage, cause riots, break out of prisons and kill most of the prison guards, etc. etc. (you could write a short novel about the things these guys do) are actually not bad guys... from a certain subjected, superficial point of outlook
@@soociesoocie yes im totally arguing from a superficial standpoint of them not being 'baf guys' rather than arguing against what's 'bad' or Evil, which goes to the inversed contrast of what Evil is.
Clearly if Batman would just politely ask the people who jump him in every game to stop, then they all would just leave and go home.
Something else that is always overlooked is that Barbara blatantly says that batman makes talia his entire focus wherever she is involved with anything so the fact he is ready to completely ignore protocol 10 for talia makes since in the story
I'll say one thing. Arkham batman doesn't sleep with Barbara.
Tell me you know nothing about the Arkham games with out telling me
Why would he think Batman's less empathetic when we've only seen him during crises
He's rarely in a situation where he CAN be nice, and I guarantee if Victor Zsasz tried to turn over a new leaf he'd support him.
Honestly about the whole Bruce thing not being from the animated series is kinda stupid in all honesty because does that mean your gonna criticize pattinsons Batman for the same thing not all interpretations have to be the exact thing they can change things to switch it up a bit plus I’m sure Pattinson will be more charismatic in the next movie and be the Bruce Wayne we all know and love
I think theres fair points to each of the points, not that I agree with most of the sentiments but I can see the view. My main problem was the selfish one when Bruce wanted to save Talia over trying to stop the assaults. I didn't even question it all those years ago when I wasn't as open minded as I am now, he's being selfish, yeah, cause he's only human. Of course he's gonna want to save his lover first. Any hero would wanna do that, even Clark. Alfred stepping in was what ultimately saved all the folk but I'm just saying that the "flaw" of Bruce wanting to be selfish for wanting to save Talia first, is what adds to him, not takes away.
Spit your facts my goat
No no no no no no
@@Terrymcdonaldsyes, just yea
Yes yes yes yes yes yes@@Terrymcdonalds
You didn’t mention Batman’s empathy towards Joker at the end of the second game where Batman says you know what’s funny? I still would have saved you
"He beats the crap out of people" dude he's 1 Batman 2 fighting mentally deranged folks and 3 there trying to kill him
and 4 this os Gotham
I also forgot to mention dude was given Joker's toxin and fear toxin plus years experience making him colder towards humans and the exact same thing happened to the BTAS batman with him becoming colder due to years of experience
"Batman doesn't seem to care about the thugs he's fighting" Spider man literally air comboing a thug and finishing him off with a hack kick to the trought with full force.
“He’s a rich guy who dresses up in a bat suit and beats up criminals, that’s not very sane”
No shit genius that’s why they’re comics and fiction. U could do this for any fiction u don’t like
It’s clear that Atomsmith has been running out of content lately, but I’m not sure why he felt the need to make a straight up inaccurate video though
I think another important point is that we only see him during 4 separate nights of his career, over the span of like 12 years. Considering the medium and just how little we're shown of this Bruce's life outside of being forced to take down his entire rogues gallery in a single night, it's pretty hard to make a lot of statements about how he is when he can relax
Watching some parts of his video and all I could get was just nitpicks or misinformation of the games. Like I’m NOT trying to hate on Atom, but if you wanna make a video why you (Atom) dislike a certain thing, please and I mean please do your research
He’s trolling it’s just a bait video
He did do his research, atom didn’t
@@Yourfat247 that's what I said
@@Yourfat247yeah that’s what I said
I mean tbh it makes total sense that arkham batman isn’t as empathetic to his villains when he’s been doing it for over a decade by Arkham knight, meaning a huge chunk of his villains have had chance after chance to reform but are still up to their same old shit. I’d be pretty done with them too if i were him
Only a small few he still tries to reform. Biggest example is/was Mr. Freeze
the fact that Batman saves criminals and doesn't kill them, doesn't mean he can't be angry at them or be cruel with them. he doesn't think anyone deserves to die, not that they don't deserve punishment
Thank you for making this video!!
I love Atomsmiths content, it's actually what got me into modding the arkham games. But that video didn't sit right with me and I'm glad someone has pointed this out!
Even in asylum his saddened when he thinks Jim Gordon dies
i commented this on the original video, but it's worth repeating here:
Batman trying dropping everything to go save Talia is foreshadowed in Arkham City. When He first starts tracking the league of assassins member, when he tells Oracle about it, she said (in regards to Talia), "What is about that woman that makes her instantly the most important person in your world?". We are told point blank that such an event would happen, and then it happens, but suddenly it's out of character?
Arkham Batman is literally the closest thing u will get to comic book Batman.
sounds like another Batman superheroics-denier to me. The kind of person that wrote that "Bruce Wayne should end poverty" joke in the Flash film.
Bruh, that line was so retarded. Like people think Bruce sharing money is what would make poverty stop. That's so stupid. Bruce is the one sponsoring all Gothams schools, and providing job opportunities by expanding his company in Gotham. That's all he needs to do. No amount of charity will help Gotham city. You need to give people the ability to fish which is Education and job opportunities which is what he does already. I'm so sick of that, "he would do more good as Bruce wayne" nonsense.
If there's anyone that I would blame in Batman comics, it's the government and GCPD; Batman did everything that he supposed to, but they can't even put bullets in Joker's head properly.
Alot of people seem to miss batman’s idea of life being sacred no matter who’s it is? He also gets pissed in the gotham royal hotel when he see’s like 10 bodies
I mean any of Tim’s poor treatment is more reflective on writers doing a horrible adaptation of him in this game. It’s not really on Arkham Bruce.
I keep forgetting that in one of these games Batman is played by fucking Sonic lmfao. I can’t unhear it
The biggest issue with atom's take is he almost exclusively talks about arkham city and asylum batman, discarding all the leg work knight did to correct his character, cuz in context to city, he's sorta got a point, he's extremely robotic in city, and stoic to a fault, but knight he's wayyy better, its just in that game he's literally going insane, and is at his most ruthless/efficient, ontop of having the most peak animations and mechanics for the sake of cool factor
Knight didn't correct his character it ruined it worse than it was before origins was fixing his character
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord the fuck? I mean origins did a good job of portraying a young hot headed bruce, but knight was perfect at displaying care for innocent lives, like he actually gave a shit in that game
But you didn't really give any examples of how it ruined it so good argument I guess 😂
@@RyanGP1203_MemeLord
How exactly did it 'ruined' his character?
I mean, you can say it might've regressed his character from Origins,
because in Origins; he learns to rely on other people in his life and stop pushing them away, but he needed to relearn that in Knight; but he had a pretty good reason for that regression with a psycho-clown trying to take over his body.
He’s literally my favorite Batman.
How is preventing Protocol 10 not saving people? He saved hundreds of lives, and probably even thousands if you factor in the rest of Gotham and Metropolis (and probably even more cities that Hugo Strange and R'as were planning to invade).
I think we need a new game because this guy is getting confused.
Another great vid, my dude. Keep it up🙂
Can we get a video about beast boy & black panther please
“He didn’t save that many people in Arkham City”. He helped all of those innocent people plus the city is literally filled with every criminal that’s in Gotham.
The Talia over the city point is not valid for me, cos he ends up doing the right thing and it is a great story point and character development
Saying that batman is a bad batman for going after talia is bad because it shows that he has some humanity, he's flawed, and not some superpowered human that does pirouettes to fight crime and only cares about the mission
1:55 bro started defending victor Zsas of all characters after Batman called him an animal like Zsas isn't a serial killer that Mark's himself after he gets a kill implying that he takes pleasure in ending people's lives like bro is pure evil.
Atomsmith legitimately sounds like dcamu green lantern, “he’s so cold and unhuman” like bro does not understand the character that is Batman
He mentioned that Arkham Batman is less empathetic and caring than the Animated series Batman. But he completely neglected to mention that in every Arkham game, Batman is locked in hell incarnate, rarely interacts with civilians, and is understandably having some of the worst days of his life. It makes sense that he wouldn’t be in the best of moods. In the animated series, we follow Batman during the average day in Gotham. Not a hellscape prison or an evacuated fear-gassed city, so of course he’s a happier Batman that interacts with more civilians. It makes me wish we would’ve gotten an Arkham game that didn’t evacuate the city and lock Batman in with the worst of the worst.
This Batman is probably the most competent Batman outside of comics. Bad Batman how?
Tell me you don’t know the games without telling me you don’t know the games essentially
I believe atomsmith's video is his way of dealing with the SSKTJL tragedy. What Batman got was not karma
Anyways, batman didn't want to go with talia because the joker was going to be inmortal?
No, that was a reason he wanted to. It must’ve been a horrifying thought to Bruce that someone like The Joker would become immortal.
@@manbro1746in the fake ending where selina leaves with the loot, we get a line from Barbara that joker took over Gotham and is unstoppable sooooo
Atomsmiths video has a ton of problems, but tbh i agree with his overall sentiment. Arkham Batman as a person leaves a lot to be desired. The way hes written leans into appealing more towards general video game power fantasy.
Most of his relationships/dynamics are established offscreen or just assumed based on other Batman media. Because you're the Batman, we dont have time to unpack all that there's a city that needs saving.
While insisting on doing things alone isnt new to Batman, this version dials it up to such insane degrees that I genuinely can't buy the idea that he trained 3 Robins given how every single time Dick or Tim shows up its always "I had it under control" or "You're needed back in gotham/bludhaven". Because you're the Batman, you don't need help and you certainly dont want to play as Batman's sidekicks when you could be playing the main man himself.
I'm of the mind that Bruce Wayne is just as important as Batman for characterisation, not so much the playboy, but along the lines of Arkham Origins whenever hes in the cave and the "persona" drops for a while. But Bruce is almost completely absent in most of these games, its just "Batman". Why? Because you're the Batman, you don't want to waste time not being in the suit, not punching bad guys and gliding through the city.
And while sympathy towards villains is a tricky subject, alot of the interesting dynamics Batman has with his rogues are absent here, with him often even kicking them when theyre already down. Because you're the Batman, we dont want you the player to feel anything but satisfaction when suplexing Mr Freeze.
In the context of a video game he works perfectly fine, but theres a reason why most of the discourse around him is generally just about stuff like "He beat his villains in a single night"
To comment on the Nightwing stuff I'd argue for the Harley Quinn DLC it's more of a case of ludo narrative dissonance because when you do "beat him" he ends up being fine and still ready to go until Ivy uses her vines to take him away so you could contextualise the fight as Harley stalling Nightwing, but I don't think avoiding Nightwing completely would have been a fun combat sequence.
Also, I thought Nightwing intentionally got himself captured by Penguin (at least one of the times)
Great video! I made a pretty long comment on the first video refuting a lot of the points but you thought of some I never even considered
That video is like the DC equivalent of Doktor Skipper’s video on Godzilla.
Yes, exactly
It's not as bad as that dumpster fire. There's stupid and then there's Doktor Skipper's Godzilla video.
Deadass thought, with a take like that, underthemayo made that video
Every batman 🐐
Except george clooney
And Val Kilmer, he was just bland.
@@suryasingh9738 his batman was bland but his bruce wayne was ok
@@imdaredevil84555well…that’s only becuz he was playing himself 😂
@@imdaredevil84555ignore my comment I was referring to Clooney lol
@@suryasingh9738yeah Val is an underrated Bruce but poor batman
Every point made by The Atomsmith is just nonsense. Dude really talks about the things he doesn't remember or analyzed in the wrong way or compated to the Batman TAS (like wtf). Like every point he made is a lie, a mistake or some made-up cringe. I'm not a fan-boy or smth, just don't like when people pretend to be experts in things they don't understand or can't even explain properly.
Pot calling kettle.
I never got the impression that it was Batman who was calling Zazz an animal in Asylums
If batman simply let all the Robin's help him, the game would be 3 hours instead of one night. Change my mind.
Agreed atomsmith is cool dude but I do have to disagree with his take on Arkham Batman, also great video btw 😅
@MEnterprises01 I thought that Atom's video was bait but apparently he's serious. He recently made a rebuttal video to your video and tbh it's not really good. Are you going to make a video on it?
i can get the points atom makes, he just struggled to explain it, i feel like batman just doesnt feel like a human with actual emotions outside of a handful of lines. i think arkham origins did a great job in humanizing bruce, it just feels as though they kinda ignored/ threw away the characterization of batman's character from origins (i know city and asylum was made before, it just remains kind of the same throughout he other three games), im not sure i even sure if i explained it properly😭
This. Batman in Rocksteady's trilogy is boring as a human, especially in the first two games. That's why I don't get the whole hype about Dini's Arkham Batman tbh.
God I love Arkham Origins.
I agree, Origins did a better job in the writting departament
true but in the context of arkham asylum and city it kind of makes sense why there’s not a lot of scenes showing batman’s deeper emotions because of the constant action and running around
I just think there is a fundamental misunderstanding of who Batman is. He is not great at showing emotions. He shows he cares about people threw actions most of the time. If people want him more expressive their are other heroes. Origins is great but I think it is clear it is a younger Batman. If he was like that all the time, I don't really think he would be what I think of as Batman
Arkham batman is literally the best batman of all time. Note that i wont count suicide squad.
Arkham asylum hes beaten titan henchman, bane, titan joker, scarecrow, killer croc, and poison ivy, and he was dealing with a bunch of psycos.
Arkham city he survived the demon trial, beaten solomon grundy, clayface, mr freeze, ras al ghul, and stopped protocol 10.
Arkham origins hes beaten every assassin's especially in his early years he manages to beat shiva, deathstroke, and bane who are considered very dangerous.
Arkham knight he stopped an entire army that was trained specifically to beat batman and yet they still lost, even the knight came up short despite predicting his tactics.
All this happened in just one night
I think he has a point, people forget that the point of this character is not just their ability to beat people but their unbreakable sense of empathy
He should MAYBE show more compassion to Victor Fries. I honestly think the doctor wouldn't be a villain/would stop being one of his wife was cured, or at least in the process of being helped. For such a "genius" I'm really disappointed Bruce has NEVER (as far as I know) just gone, "Hey, Victor... how about you come work for Wayne Enterprises? I'll find your research for a cure for Nora, and you only have to occasionally help with our research until she's cured. Afterwards, the job will still be yours if you want it. Perhaps after a bit of a vacation, to make up for lost time with your wife." (Basically implying Victor would just straight up be a researcher permanently.) like yeah, maybe this means Bruce reveals his identity. How else would he get Fries a guaranteed job at Wayne Enterprises? But wouldn't it be worth it?
The Bruce Wanye topic makes sense. He couldn't be Brice Wayne with all the chaos happening around in one night for each game, respectively
End if arkham knight. Scarecrow injects him with fear toxin, goes through his fear of being the joker, for a minute become the joker, he gets injected again, goes through jokers fear and batman literally locks him isn his mind. So yes arkham batman is the strongest.
My main issue with Arkham Batman is that he's a huge dick in Arkham Knight. I know he's pushing his allies away because he fears of turning and hurting them, I'm just not a fan of that trope. I hate the trope of Batman pushing away his allies during extreme crises so he can do it himself.
It's either he does that or they die just like Jason Todd or they end up crippled like Barbara he has more reason to do that than not so whether or not you hate the trope the fact that you're out here having an issue with what Batman does proves that you did not pay attention
That’s very in character for batman though. He pushes people away because he doesn’t want them to die like his parents. And even with sidekicks, he still prefers to work alone sometimes
This isn’t just Arkham batman most Batman adaptations do this too he’s not like other superheroes who can save the city and their friends at the same time one of batman’s character flaws is that he can’t do everything alone but doesn’t want his friends to get hurt helping him
@@ineedit1772 I personally wish that Arkham Knight expanded on the Batfamily dynamic more, that's one of the few complaints I had with the game.
He's pushing them away because he's afraid of losing them. In Arkham VR he has nightmare of himself snapping Nightwing's neck and then he's constantly getting doses of fear toxin making his hallucinations worse he already lost control on the airship with scarecrows men I'm sure he doesn't want to snap on any of allies.
And so it begins
Another issue with his video is that most of his "points" are referring to Arkham City, which is arguably the worst depiction of Batman as a character in the series. (Excpet for maybe Arkham Asylum)
Why is Asylum and City considered 'worst' depiction of Batman in your opinion? Is it because he refers to mentally-ill criminals as 'animals', because that would make a lot of different versions of Batman, 'worst'.
@@lakshaykochhar6799 that's not even close to what I was saying. I just think Batman is barley a character in those games. He doesn't really have a personality or character Development. Arkham Origins and Arkham Knight are good examples of him having a personality and character growth
@@spideyfan1024 Oh yeah, I agree.
The only true immoral and questionable thing Arkham batman did was locking Tim in a cell.
I think atom would of really benefitted from having a script to really show what he means and why. Because at the moment he's just saying what ever comes to mind without thinking it through. There's nothing wrong with speaking his mind but I'm just saying if he had a script then it would make more sense
I'd like to defend Atomsmith's take about Arkham Batman's disregard for the villains: Why does Batman not just kill some of his villains when they're so terrible and cannot be changed (to deserve to be called animals)? They always break out and kill more people, he knows their pattern so why not put a permanent stop to it and save hundreds of lives. Or why go out of his way to save Joker even when his death wouldn't be on Bruce's hands (blown up by Bane)? Is it really just a selfish choice to protect his self-image of someone who never lets people die on his watch? Or does he actually want them to get help because he believes that one day, with proper care, even people like Joker or Victor Zsasz could be healed and integrated back into society? Isn't it hypocritical to call them animals and then choose not to kill them to protect other people from them? We put down wild / rabid animals for a reason when they become a threat to society.
It's fascinating how different people interpret the same character differently based on their own moral values.
Because batman believes in reformation. If he killed his villains, he would be just as worse as them.
@@djb9267 Isn't it contradictory with him calling them animals then? Wild animals can't reform.
@@bloodymares I don't think that batman truly believes that. Zsaz did just hold someone as a hostage. And given the fact that batman wanted to save even joker, someone much worse than a serial killer, i believe that batman doesn't believe that.
He is objectively the best Batman
so underrated cant wait till you get big gang
People get way too obsessed with the whole "they disrespected the bat famile" thing.
Robin was an easter egg at most in the Arkham city story - he was there to extend the lore. Batman sends him out to help in gotham. done.
In Knight, he's lost Barbara... he sees it as HIS fault. That's why he locks up Tim, that's why he's shitty that Nightwing is there. He's lost Barbara, and he's afraid of losing more because he blames himself for her kidnapping.
It's a BATMAN game, it's going to focus on Batman. The Bat family are extensions of Batman... bruh
Is the atomsmith down playing all of the hard work Arkham Batman has been through?
I low key hated how Bruce took the Joker’s video of him killing Jason as proof he had died and didn’t keep searching until he found a body
What tells us he didn't try exactly ? Is there any evidence in Arkham knight that he didn't try, the more likely answer was that he tried but couldn't find him.
You can actually find the rooms that he kept Jason in Arkham Asylum or at least the most close approximate of those rooms in those videos.
Did he just say Batman didn’t save anyone in Arkham City? He finished the game right? You know, the part where protocol 10 does go through and the prisoners I don’t know… LIVE.
6:20 just wanted to remind you guys while you’re not thinking about it that Batman murders Tim Drake in the suicide squad off screen. Congratulations, I just reminded you again why you hate that game.
Excuse me, what? He's complaining about Batman being cold? .... Welcome to DC I guess.
The difference between Batman and Spider-Man is that Batman's been in the hero business a lot longer. He shouldn't NEED convincing. That was an out-of-character moment for Batman, he KNOWS BETTER. On top of that, it wasn't Alfred, Barbara, Jim, Tim, or even Selina, it was Talia. Batman's relationship with Talia--from what we've seen--has been uneasy, at best...not someone I'd expect to be at the top of his "people I care about" list. And if this version of Talia is a date r@pist like other recent versions, then so much the worse.
I doubt that the dude even played any of the games before giving his "criticism" of Batman 😂
We only see this batman at literally the worst nights of his life, i think it's plenty fair if he doesn't get to show his bruce wayne side a lot because of the stress, the time restraint, needing to think his next move etc. In general he has way more important things to be doing
8:32 and then he left her dead body there…….oh I can just feel the warms & fuzzies all inside😊
How would he be able to move the body in the first place? Besides, it’s not even real, most likely he’d eventually do it, kinda like how he looks the joker infected
@@Vitallor go into the room and retrieve the body. You can clearly see the door that connects both rooms, and there’s a wall of glass between them. But sure, I guess it’s just impossible to get inside🤣🤣
That’s not the point. He believes it to be real. And he still just leaves her body there. Saying he’d “eventually do it”, isn’t a good excuse. He just left one of his most trusted and longtime allies’ corpse in some random room. He could easily have retrieved the body and let the Bat-Wing take her back to back to the Bat-Cave. Or even leave her corpse at the Movies Studios or G.C.P.D.
There’s absolutely no excuse for this
He said the video was clickbait
The Arkham Batman is not selfish he does he's best to save Gotham and everyone in it effeciently
Honestly... Batman showing empathy to his villains is a core character trait, so you're wrong about that one.
While arkham batman is indeed a terrible version of the character, atomsmith's points are not a good way to criticize his character. There are multiple other things to talk about: his lack of Intelligence, batman's atupid descisions, his lack of preparing for his enemies, etc.
Arkham batman is arguably the best batman, especially because of how he takes out his entire rouges gallery in a more realistic way than how the other 'batmen' do it, such as how batman from 'batman the brave and the bold' can just run through all his toughest enemies and one shot them while he will struggle with one of them in the next episode, and how he does it with no other worldly interference, such as the justice league or magic powers.
He might have been the best batman until suicide squad ruined him
dude sounds like one of those people that watches a film or show but was actually on their phone the whole time
Glorious King Arkham Batman!
Your mentioning good points about Arkham batman and I think that you're right and atomsmith is wrong Arkham batman is the best batman he is the goat he is the king he is an absolute legend and i think that atomsmith got the wrong ideas about Arkham,s batman character