23. The Life and Times of John Calvin (part 1)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2014
- Along with Martin Luther, the other great personality of the Reformation was John Calvin, who was born in France in 1509, when Luther was about 25 years old. Calvin's sweeping intellect and genius helped to consolidate the thinking of the Reformation, and created the second great stream of thought originating from that era, the Reformed Tradition. While Calvin is often criticized and misunderstood, the effects of his contribution are impossible to overstate, and this two part treatment of his life attempts to give a fair summary of this remarkable individual.
Wow, I am a Catholic and this video series is fascinating.
What a revelation, I had been reading a book about the Huguenots, about the burnings, and of the women who supported the gospellers but hadn’t picked up these details about Calvin. I knew that Anne Boleyn had been at the French court and I understand she may have been a terrific influence for Lutheranism in the English Court. We were taught in school in the 60’s about the English martyrs but I hadn’t realised till recently how much we owe to so many french Protestants who gave their lives for the truth.
Thank you for all your studies and talks on the early church so good and informative.
Thank you!
grateful for all this work, thanks.
I am a Swiss reformed Christian with Jesus living in me. Our God has a plan and He will fulfill His perfect plan. Glory to Him!
Amen to that!
I live in Geneva now, and take this chance to learn everything about Reformation. Such a honor!
罗汉果 Wish I could join you! Blessings!
Bruce Gore I wish I could sit in your Sunday school classroom some day.
Through the Spirit of God in him. If you are a Christian you should not be alien to this concept.
It's funny I went to a Calvinists school and Calvinist church. I now know more about John Calvin than I have ever known. Thank you so much for this.
I've long been impressed with the relatively high hostility that tends to be provoked by the name of John Calvin, mixed with the relatively low knowledge of his actual story and contribution in Western history! Thanks for the feedback!
Bruce Gore is there a source where John Calvin talks about the Libertine people in Geneva? What ever happened to those people?
A quite good and even-handed assessment of Calvin and his career in Geneva was produced a few years ago by William J. Bouwsma. He treats the topic to some extent, but includes excellent bibliographical sources. You can find it at:
www.amazon.com/John-Calvin-Sixteenth-Century-William-Bouwsma/dp/0195043944/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497108740&sr=8-1&keywords=william+j+bouwsma
With respect to the subsequent history of the libertines, it's hard to say, because they were not a well-organized movement, and were quite anarchic at their heart. The libertine influence has always been a factor in church history, regardless of the precise historical linkages. Thanks again.
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I have heard my whole life about the French Huguenots coming to America to escape persecution as many ended up in my hometown, Charleston SC. Now I see how this all fits into the big story of God.
You made me love and appreciate John Calvin, your lecture is so super!
Thanks for posting this. Good teacher, nice and serious, and careful with his words.
Wonderful lecture! I needed a better background to understand your new series on the Presbyterian Church in America, and who better to turn to, than the author of that new series himself? Thank you. And now for the lecture that follows.
Excellent, thank you for this excellent teaching. I look forward to starting your series from the beginning.
You have improved my image of Calvin greatly. I was going to ask you about Michael Servetus myself, but then you answered my question. You have a relaxed ease to your lectures that make me regret my on-line degree and lack of face-to-face interaction.
My university preaches "salvation by faith" but I was born in a Reformed Church which is "salvation by grace". Luther's "justification by faith" makes sense when compared to Catholic doctrine but is there any middle ground between faith and grace. The one extreme view makes certain Bible passages become clear but then the reverse is true for others. At the moment my view is that the way to salvation is God's plan and it is an unfathomable combination of both.
Willem Els Faith found in the human heart mirrors grace originating in God. The two are distinct, but inseparably connected, in the same way that light reflected in a mirror is dependent but distinct from its source!
Thanks for your kind feedback!
Faith without works is....dead!
Paul never said we are saved by faith only! Paul did say several times that we are not saved by the works of the law! Nobody on earth is under that law because Christ nailed it to His cross!
If you seek to be justified by the law, you have fallen from grace! So, this disproves the Calvin doctrine of ...once saved...always saved!
@@aquillafleetwood8180 you're off the rails wacko
Humanist pagan Computer addict triggered
Bruce, I just stumbled upon your site last night when I found it hard to sleep. I have now listened to about 5 hours of your lectures. Very well done. But I always hit a bit of a speed bump when I learn that an otherwise good bible teacher is a Calvinist. I'm sure you have heard of Steve Gregg or Leighton Flowers. Both are very good, but I would put Steve Gregg into a category of great bible teacher. We are never to old or smart to give something a second look. I hope and you and your listeners will.
Blessings.
Yes, Calvinism (which I at first grudgingly accepted when I was a confirmed Arminian and Bible School teacher back in the 70s) is vastly more subtle and counter-intuitive than most folks (including many Calvinists) appreciate. Thanks for the kind feedback.
@@GoreBruce Indeed, and based upon what the average person says about Calvinism you would be surprised to learn that Calvin himself, in the preface to his chapters on predestination within his Institutes magnum opus, he says we have to be careful not to go beyond precisely what is revealed in the scriptures. Many would do well today to take that advice. Calvin was a brilliant theologian, and Leighton Flowers is nonsense by the way. A man who spends his entire life attempting to refute the thing he claims to despise has some obvious issues.
Bruce Gore has given us a good introduction to a much misunderstood man.
Karl Barth, who refused to take his oath of allegiance to Hitler and the evil Third Reich, said he could spend the rest of his life reading and researching Calvin.
I love this video. Thank you so much for the insightful lecture. One thing I would recommend is to have someone go back and edit the audio for you. There are several times when you hit the microphone or brush up against it or there is a loose connection in the cord and it makes a VERY loud noise.
Bruce thank you very much for putting all these lectures out for free I can't get enough! I was curious what the source for the 'old man incident' was. I was distinctly moved by that.
I wish I could give you a better answer. I heard that story from a church historian named Dr. Tim Couch, back in 1976, in a lecture he gave on the life of John Calvin. I've poked around trying to nail down the source as well. I have full confidence in Dr. Couch, but he is now with the Lord and unavailable to help out. Sorry!
Bruce ..great job!
God has once more amazed my heart with his revelations of his grace and merciful love for his chosen Souls, Praise and Glory for the Lord God Almighty Creator of all things and l will with the the help of Gods Spirit give the balance of my life to his Work,
I found the Truth Jesus late in life but it was Not so from the beginning of the foundations of time,
Amen, Praise the Lord God for his everlasting grace,*!*¤*!!!
Interesting, I am trying to find out more about John Calvin in order to understand the point of view of dispensationalists who do not agree with him.
If you would like to interact a bit on that question, please feel free to contact me. bruce@brucegore.com
***** I intend to, I want to finish viewing/listening to your lectures on Calvin, which I have enjoyed immensely!
Sad the way things go - Christ is King. Lord Jesus humble of heat make my heart like unto Thine.
Great video, thank you very much , note to self(nts) watched all in it 42:25
I just wish you could have had told us what he said
Idk how accurate this is but it was awesome
(P.s - sources in description???)
This is very interesting.
Thank you so much for uploading this!.
Sorry for not knowing what guitar piece is played at end of you discussion
Sovereign grace preaching produces the best disciples because they are the true disciples! The Elect. I praise and bless God that He had mercy on me and did not leave me to my dead free will! I my life, love and allegiance to the Triune God alone and not to a faith that appeases sinful and ungodly men! Stand firm those of you who know and love the truth.
the elect DO stand firm because of Jesus, not of any thing of themselves
+Alys Falsia I love to hear people speak like they understand the doctrine of election! The whole Bible is about this very important doctrine. Sounds like you have had some good teaching.
Neal Gaylor yes I did. The Holy Spirit being the best teacher as you well know. To Him be all the glory! Our Lord bless you.
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"Sovereign grace preaching produces the best disciples because they are the true disciples! The Elect."
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Preaching doesn't produce Election (Ephesians 1:4). God chose the Elect before the foundation of the world.
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The DataRat
Christian in America
God-Chooses-Us / We-Don't-Choose-God
(Ephesians 1:11)
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Bro Rat amen!
Me thinks we tend to put way to much emphasis on men and movements. The only thing that really matters is scripture. As a good Reformed preacher once said, “Sola Scriptura”.
1 Corinthians 1:10-14
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be NO DIVISIONS among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the SAME MIND and in the SAME JUDGEMENT. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14I thank God that I baptized none of you.
This was the heart of Paul, but it is also the heart of Christ.
fantastic video. Thanks for making this available
Thank you for your interest and kind feedback!
“Young Man, have you heard of God’s free gift?” The Roman Catholic Church taught salvation by allegiance to the church, rites, rituals, and indulgences (payment for sin). This was a new question; it confused and startled him. One week later, as he was walking home, he saw a crowd assembled. He saw the old man, who had grabbed him on the street, being tied to a stake. He watched as the fire was lit. As he watched the flames began to rise, the old man began to sing Martin Luther’s glorious hymn, A Mighty Fortress is our God. He watched the flames take hold, the old man’s voice was silenced. He was shaken. He would never be the same.
The old man was a Huguenot: French Protestants, also called Gospellers because of their dedication to the Bible. Calvin had great disdain for the Huguenots. He thought they were damaging the church, and he supported every effort to stamp out this heretical movement. He watched as his cousin, Peter Robert, also a brilliant student, began subtlety identifying with the Gospelers. He knew Peter Robert was leaning towards heresy, and he feared having to report his cousin to the church knowing he could be burned at the stake, just like the old man had been."
foundationchurch.org/blogarchive/2017/8/9/john-calvin
Is this Whitworth University? I often regret not attending such a beautiful institution. I am converting from Catholicism to Eastern Orthodoxy, but "Love should not be sacrificed for the sake of dogmatic differences" (St. Nektarios) and I was treated incredibly well during my visits.
These presentations were made during the adult education hour at First Presbyterian Church, Spokane. I did teach on the adjunct faculty of Whitworth University for about 30 years, while practicing law. Thanks for your interest!
@@GoreBruce The university I attend is very anti-faith so I have been listening to a few presentations a day to keep my mind sharp as I finish up. Thank you for making these available for free. You are a very unmercenary man!
Thankyou, this was fascinating. Thank GOD for John Calvin.
It was Calvin who also wrote about Carpe Diem?
Hello Bruce, do you have a preferred biography for Calvin? Is it the Bouwsma book?
@31:14 the speaker says Calvin Asked them about 3 questions. Then doesn't mention them or anything of Calvin's speech, then goes on to give a Franciscan's response and actually reads it.... what gives!!! What did Calvin say, why isn't it mentioned, surely that is most relevant.
May i know the source about the Gospellers and the story about one of them being burned at the stake while singing. I really interested in studying it, thank you very much. Be blessed.
One of the greatest Christian thinkers
Thank you so much for this series on Church History. I live in Texas where the Catholic Church is trying to take over Protestant Churches. We have the bizarre situation of Italian Catholics trying to suggest they represent the Presbyterian Church. My family are long time Presbyterians and Calvinists and we are constantly being attacked by Black Presbyterian Catholics who feel that all Presbyterians must be Black and Catholic and Homosexual. John Knox is turning over in his grave, needless to say. This strange mix of racism and Catholicism is also taught by our preachers in Presbyterian Churches. So whatever you can do to educate people is most appreciated. I always pray for non violent cooperation between all faiths, but the Catholic Church particularly in Texas is using our medical system to violently persecute Protestants by poisoning them with diseases and then bankrupting their families through medical bills and killing people through disease. They gleefully use this medical persecution as their modern form of burning people at the stake which they feel they can get away with, avoiding criminal prosecution through deceit. Meanwhile our Presbyterian Preachers smile and preach as if this persecution is all just fine as they become Catholic servants to a new Catholic economic aristocracy. Thank you for this history. I pray that all people find a way to restore Democratic freedom of religion to America and return our medical system to devotion to healing and compassion, rescuing it from the religious sadists who pervert it into persecution. Anything you can do to expose these modern medical and religious crimes would be greatly appreciated.
It is sad that Christians are insulting to other denominations who also follow Jesus Christ but cannot tell me who Jesus will return to destroy at Armageddon. Meanwhile the enemy of Jesus has destroyed all Christians and Jews in the Holy lands, Carthage and Turkey where the churches grew first ....as well as in Saudi where today churches are still denied. My travels in Anatolia, the ruins and Carthage ...I never saw one cross standing in a graveyard....all churches had been destroyed...all Christians murdered....the weak in Faith had converted to serve Satan.
I have read this comment over and over again trying to make some sense of it. I would dearly love to meet you, Vara Sue Tamminga and have you explain it to me in person. Since that is unlikely to happen, I can only conclude you are entirely daft.
@James Mathis , whatever else you may claim to be, you make plain here, at least one aspect of your identity. You are a racist. And proud to be so.
@@faithmcgill8638 In the Summer of 1981 I was attending Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia. A man sitting next to me was an American man who was a Presbyterian. I casually mentioned to him that The United Church of Canada was a union of the Presbyterian, Methodist, and Congregationalist Churches. He was surprised by this and said"How can you merge Calvin with Wesley". When the Canadian West was opening up in a lot of villages and towns there were not enough Presbyterians to form their own church and there were not enough Methodists to form their own churches so the Protestants would meet to form a church called a local union church. When the United Church was formed in 1925 there were already a lot of people meeting in merged churches anyways. Also a lot of people were poor farmers with little education. They were not educated as to the distinct teachings of Methodism or the Presbyterian churches. So poor uneducated farmers would help to create a new denomination that went very liberal.
@@faithmcgill8638 lol
You must be a people person 2 for 2
It is funny ☺️ the way he pronounces Jean Calvin and I like it. Great lecture great work. Merci beaucoup Monsieur Bruce.
My two years of French in high school didn't do much for me! Thanks!
Can someone please link a source regarding .I am not able to find anything online regarding that incident and would be helpful if someone showed me a source to back up that event,thank you.
I heard this story from a historian named Tim Couch whose lecture I attended about 40 years ago. He was a quite competent and credible source, but unfortunately at the time I was too immature to appreciate that I should have requested his source. Couch died in 2007, so it is not possible to follow up with him. I have no doubt the story can be documented, but to date have not made a serious attempt to do so. If you happen to succeed in finding the cite, I'd appreciate having pass the information on. Thanks!
Bruce, if the Diogenes metaphor was accurate and he threw feces at people do you imagine in this context Calvin would throw bibles at people? :D
There is a very simple problem with the dogma of “once saved, always saved.” That problem is that it is just not biblical! The truth is, the dogma of “once saved, always saved” is part of the doctrines and commandments of men. Consider Matthew 15:1-20; Mark 7:1-23 → Galatians 1:6-20 and II John 1:7-11!
Yes, of course. That is precisely why Calvin rejected such terms as 'once saved, always saved,' or 'eternal security.' Thanks for the feedback!
@@GoreBruce The doctrine that is commonly known as “Calvinism” did not in fact originate with the French theologian and reformer, John Calvin (1509-1564), but with Augustine (396-430), a Roman Catholic philosopher and bishop of the fifth century. It was, however, John Calvin (and others) who would crystallize the teaching of Augustine into what has come to be known as the “Five Points of Calvinism.” The five points of Calvinism became formalized in the “Westminster Confession of Faith” (1647), a creed of Protestant Denominationalism, which has had a profound impact on the modern religious world, especially in the Reformed Churches. It should be realized that Augustinian-Calvinism is, in one form or another, the basis for the vast majority of Catholic and Protestant theology and faith. It also needs to be stated as clearly as possible that perhaps no doctrine or system of theology is more damnable than the heresy of Augustinian-Calvinism. It needs to be clearly understood at the beginning of this study that the heart of the problem of Calvinism lies not merely in the Five Points of Calvinism, but especially in Calvinism’s misunderstanding and perversion of the nature of God and man.
@@kac0404 Generally accurate as to historical facts. John Calvin, however, never heard of the 'five points' of Calvin. Those were formulated about 100 years later in Holland as a response to the Remonstrants championed by Jacob Arminias.
@@GoreBruce Do you reject or accept the teaching of "once saved, always saved"?
@@kac0404 A brief statement of my theological perspectives can be found under the "Gore's theology' link at the 'About' page of my website: www.brucegore.com. Thanks for your interest.
Hi Bruce. I am currently writing my term paper for Western History II on Calvin and am wondering if you can provide a source for the incident with the old man burning at the stake around the 8:00 mark. I think it's a good story to include in my paper but sadly can't include something like that without the proper citations.
I heard that anecdote in a lecture in 1976 by a Christian historian named Tim Couch. At the time I was a bit too academically immature to appreciate the need to ask him for the source, although Couch was certainly regarded as highly reliable. Couch died in 2007. I admit I've not been able to nail down the origins of the story, and so regrettably at this point I'm not able to help you. I'm very sorry. If you should come across the details in your research on Calvin, I'd appreciate having you pass it on to me!
The closest I could find was archive.org/details/memoirsoflifewri00mackiala on Page 33-34 but I believe he was a different person.
I agree...it appears similar, but does not quite match the version of the story that I heard. Thanks!
Calvin nevertheless became a persecutor himself...Cannot be denied
Oh, go away you silly goose.
Yes it can
You can check out what John Calvin believes from his magnum opus Systematic Theology book for free, his audiobook on the Institutes of the Christian Religion Vol 1 can be found on TH-cam for free here: th-cam.com/video/uYJ_x1DhfN4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=9QwfKlz93LTvZ_z4
😊 Enjoy!
When Presbyterian was found in which year
The Presbyterian Church was founded in Scotland under the leadership of John Knox in the late 1500s. It came to the Colonies largely through the influence of the Puritans at Massachusetts Bay.
Is it found by John Calvin
The Presbyterian Church was founded by John Knox, who was a student and follower of John Calvin. The Presbyterian Church was therefore Calvinistic, but was not specifically founded by Calvin.
Come on ! The man was known as the Protestant Pope in Geneva !
nice video
Justus Faidley Thanks!
I like those Libertines! Where can I learn more.
He threatened Sevetus that he would not let him leave Geneva and argued for his hanging not clemency
Dr. Gore at 36:58-37:05: "I mention to you on the side, I read one chapter out of the Institutes every day. It's just good for your soul."
Response: Such as Book IV, Chapter 18, No. 1?
"By these and similar inventions, Satan has attempted to adulterate and envelop the sacred Supper of Christ as with thick darkness, that its purity might not be preserved in the Church. But the head of this horrid abomination was, when he raised a sign by which it was not only obscured and perverted, but altogether obliterated and abolished, vanished away and disappeared from the memory of man-namely, when, with most pestilential error, he blinded almost the whole world into the belief that the Mass was a sacrifice and oblation for obtaining the remission of sins. I say nothing as to the way in which the sounder Schoolmen at first received this dogma.I leave them with their puzzling subtleties, which, however they may be defended by cavilling, are to be repudiated by all good men, because, all they do is to envelop the brightness of the Supper in great darkness. Bidding adieu to them, therefore, let my readers understand that I am here combating that opinion with which the ROMAN ANTICHRIST and his prophets have imbued the whole world- viz. that the mass is a work by which the priest who offers Christ, and the others who in the oblation receive him, gain merit with God, or that it is an expiatory victim by which they regain the favour of God. And this is not merely the common opinion of the vulgar, but the very act has been so arranged as to be a kind of propitiation, by which satisfaction is made to God for the living and the dead. This is also expressed by the words employed, and the same thing may be inferred from daily practice. I am aware how deeply this plague has struck its roots; under what a semblance of good it conceals its true character, bearing the name of Christ before it, and making many believe that under the single name of Mass is comprehended the whole sum of faith. But when it shall have been most clearly proved by the word of God, THAT THIS MASS, HOWEVER GLOSSED AND SPLENDID, OFFERS THE GREATEST INSULT TO CHRIST, suppresses and buries his cross, consigns his death to oblivion, takes away the benefit which it was designed to convey, enervates and dissipates the sacrament, by which the remembrance of his death was retained, will its roots be so deep that this most powerful axe, the word of God, will not cut it down and destroy it? Will any semblance be so specious that this light will not expose the lurking evil?"
[Beveridge translation, P. 866, ntslibrary website, John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, pdf 874 of 944]
Or perhaps from Book III, Chapter 21, No. 7 ?
"We say, then, that Scripture clearly proves this much, that GOD by his eternal and immutable counsel DETERMINED once for all those whom it was his PLEASURE one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his PLEASURE to doom to destruction."
[Beveridge translation, P. 571, ntslibrary website, John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, pdf page 579 of 944]
Guillaume Farel, for goodness sake
There is a different story about Jacques Gruet leaving a note that said:
"Gross hypocrite, thou and thy companions will gain little by your pains. If you do not save yourselves by flight, nobody shall prevent your overthrow, and you will curse the hour when you left your monkery. Warning has been already given that the devil and his renegade priests were come hither to ruin every thing. But after people have suffered long they avenge themselves. Take care that you are not served like Mons. Verle of Fribourg."
This admonishment was taken as a threat. It certainly hurt Calvin's feelings as it reminded him of his previous flight from Geneva. Gruet called Calvin a Liar and warned him of consequences, though dd not state that he would be the cause of such consequences.
MrsG I extend to you some sympathy... I can imagine entering into a "discussion" of some disagreement with this "logic chopper" :-))
Actually, Mrs. G inevitably wins any 'discussion' we may have.
*****
"predestination" huh ??
LoL, I loved that "IN - YOUR - DREAMS".
john public you need to understand what you criticize. If you do understand that your comment is a strawman then God forgive you for your false testimony.
Please. Español !!!
All these God Informers; and so few informed by God.
Wow,the libertines sound like the Liberals of today!
The libertines just were against Calvins church discipline, they didn't approve of promiscuity. This lecturer is not always reliable.
Thanks for the comment. The libertine philosophy is reasonably well-documented. A citation for the perspective reflected here would be helpful.
I thought it's the common perspective. I read quite a few books about the reformation and as far as I understand, Calvins party called everybody "libertines", who opposed the severe church discipline he introduced. They didn't call themselves "libertines", but at least a fraction of them called themselves "spirituales".
I have not read anything that dealt with the "libertines" at detail, so if there philosophy is "well-documented", I would love to know some sources containing such documentation.
Was Perrin a typical libertine? Did he approve of promiscuity?
Any decent church history covers the libertines reasonably well. I suggest Philip Schaff's "History of the Christian Church," Kenneth Scott Latourette's "A History of Christianity," or Bouwsma's "Calvin" for example.
Refering to Standard works is not what I call reasonable documentation. Anyway, are you sure that these works claim that the libertines promoted promiscuity and alkoholism? For actually that was my only point of objection.
Justification without works would have been persuasive, meaning all your sins have already been forgiven, so you are free to live a life of licentiousness & still get to Heaven. It would have meant an easy way to Heaven whereas Jesus said: "it was a hard road leading to life [Heaven]. Also: "if you want to be my disciple you must take up your cross daily and follow me". Jesus words: "Faith without works is dead is neglected, also."
Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure what theology you are critiquing here, but it is certainly not the view of either Calvin, Luther, the English Puritans, the Scottish Presbyterians, or any other fair representative of the Reformed Tradition. It was, however, the view of many antinomians and libertines, who were themselves soundly condemned by Calvin.
I am Catholic, Bruce and I believe in Jesus's words: "Faith without works is dead." Not: Because you have been saved you are free to do as you please.
My friend, I am protestant, and I fully agree with what you've said here. I've taught and preached that crucial text from James many times over the last 40 or more years. Thanks for your interest.
I like your honesty & sincerity, Bruce.
@@robhulbert you are stupid person lol
Typical catholic fraud has no clue what the Bible says even one of the most common passages hahahaha
Interesting, Calvin creates the so called “Marks of the True Church” (35:37), and effectively, single-handedly creates THE STANDARD (??) of what the true church should look like. Of course, in this process Calvin disregard Jesus appointment of Peter to run His Church, and the historical facts (not religious) of apostolic succession and how it inevitably brings you back to the Catholic Church. I mean, to heck with the reality and weight of Jesus orders…if it feels right do it and yet somehow we ended up with 30,000 to 40,000 so called “churches/denominations”, all of them supposedly guided by the Holy Spirit. All this would be so comical if it wasn’t so tragic.
I wonder how a protestant or whatever you call yourself, answer to this short statement and question from Jesus (if it comes up) on judgement day: “I told you to receive My Body and Blood and you refuse to (Luke 22:19-20), I ask you to confess your sins to one another and you refuse that as well (James 5:16); I put Peter in charge of My Church (Matthew 16:18) and when was invaded by corruption you opted abandon Her and create your own 40,000 variations of My Church instead of defending the one I gave you. Why should I let you in?” …. Please come home.
+R Rogers Thanks for this quite accurate summary of the Catholic perspective.
Yes, thanks for that accurate summary of an erroneous perspective.
WhooBoy! Not these RC fictions again!
Eyes without seeing there.