I hope there's going to be a video about BG3 too someday after the release, especially talking about how the new developing concepts he talked about in this video worked out for them and what kind of new problems might have arose from those.
It's expensive and a lot of hardcore fans (i.e. backers and people active on forums) have the mistaken belief that voice over means complexity has to suffer. But the truth is the broader market much, much prefers to have voiced dialogue.
Same. I was planning on waiting for a sale to buy it, but after hearing the news about full voice acting, I bought the game day one mainly because I wanted to support their bold decision, even if I planned to do most of my playing after multiple bug fixes get released.
@@mygaffer The broader market is what ruined the majority of decent games in the past. So the broader market can go fuck itself as far as i'm concerned.
@xmeany Step out of my bubble and embrace mediocrity? No thanks, divinity got lucky with it's 100% voice acting nonsense, it came out at the right time and larian had the talent to back it up. Other games don't have that luxury, i hope other studios don't jump on this trend and think they have to have voice acting at the expense of everything else. Voice acting is a luxury, not a necessity. Wasteland 2 and pathfinder are 2 rpg's that absolutely suck at keeping immersion 100% because they tried to implement voice acting in a game that didn't need or warrant it and they didn't even bother to have 100% voice acting so it ended up hurting the game more than it helped. Keep your nonsense out of my video games, thanks.
Larian did internal survey with early access users about whether they prefer full voice acting for DOS2 with 1 year delay or full game without it. You can imagine what the result was.
I remember a dev video blog with Swen saying voice acting wasn't realistic because there were so many lines. And they actually did it. It's pretty amazing by Larian.
DOS2 is easily one of the best rpgs I’ve ever played. So much replay value and overall charm. I had never played a game like it before and fell in love. I still play it. DOS2 and Darkest Dungeon to me are the at the top when it comes to rpgs.
Divinity original Sin 2 has shaken my Viewpoint of what an outstanding RPG can deliver through atmosphere and foremost storytelling. Thus Game ist great Art.
Just bought this for ps4. It's what I've been looking for, for years. Thank you to every blood sweat and tear that went into the making of a truly fabulous rpg
Also an example of how formerly good companies like Blizzard and Bioware degrade in quality as the smart/innovative developers leave because of corporate culture and the games suffer because of it. When you start designing game by investor target goals, you lose something fundamental.
My favorite RPG of all time. Larian really knows how to make great characters, and how to allow players to make REAL choices. They do it better than any other studio in memory
@@kocashima The Witcher games are a lot more scripted and streamlined with a large focus on action and storytelling, not to say they're bad, they're really good, but this is a better rpg. Sorry for the super late reply :P
@coffee: the account an RPG game is called that because it let you play a role. The Witcher 3 is my personal favorite because the choices you make change the outcome of the story. With the witcher 3 even some minor events can effect the story latter on or how other quests finish. In the Witcher 3 you don't chose who you play as you are Geralt the RPG aspect is how you play Geralt and how your choices effect the world around you. Divinity 2 the area's dont feel like a world but more as an open sandbox, which no matter what you do will lead you to the next open sandbox. This isnt to say D2OS is bad but I belive the Witcher 3 nailed impact of choice which is essential to an RPG
don't forget .. best Kickstarter Campaigns too! DO:S Updates were always enlightening, fun, and did a great job showcasing a large number of their artists/devs contributions.
He is so right about hacking the game feeling good, I haven't played this game yet (now I want to) But I remember encountering an obviously unique enemy in Oblivion, and she was way too hard to kill for my level 7 character, so i scraped all the gold I could muster and bought a 10 use staff that dealt absolutely ridiculous 99 damage per hit (at that point weapons you can use deal a max of 7-9 damage) and then I just unloaded the entire charge of that thing into her, killing her with the last strike while continiously running backwards and devouring health potions. Felt Immensely satisfying to pull off something like that. She drops the sword with highest base damage in the game, and it looks badass. Still my best memory from the game
it’s interesting how many nerds are libertarian but seem to naturally conclude that capitalist interests devalue everything, or will resent companies for chasing profit
That's because they're an independent developer that have been developing the same genre of games since the late 90s. No parent company to force market research down their throats. Their revenue comes from love of their games.
Larian is one of the few companies I still trust and have faith in now that Bethesda, BIoware and Blizzard have all gone down the drain and went down the path of greed and not caring about their players. DOS:2 is one of my favorite games of all time! Up there with Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Bioshock Infinite, Heroes 3, Diablo 2, Ocarina of Time and The Witcher etc.
Fantastic talk. It is almost baffling to hear how many things Sven did not end up being satisfied with when the game is considered by almost everyone a near perfect RPG - armor, crafting, AP system, story, etc. I had already been immensly excited on Baldur's Gate III but this just brought it on another level when they think there's so many more elements where they want to improve on. And Sven, thank you for demanding to make multiplayer RPGs. These are our favorite co-op games with my spouse and the instant BG3 has local co-op, we'll get it.
You guys completely changed the way I look at videogames, DOS2 is so much better than anything I played previously. Thank you for all the immense work, you guys gave us a gem.
Very good talk. He’s very frank about difficulties and failures that went into making this game. The game’s biggest flaw was probably how unpolished the content in the second half felt vs the first. The fact that they released a huge patch to address this (including re-recorded dialogue) shows the dedication to making the best rpg they could. EDIT: managing the immense number of dialogue paths and script choices sounds like a complete nightmare.
Very interesting presentation. DOS is the kind of scale of game where the basic essence of making video games and constantly iterating on itself starts being a gargantuan pain in the ass at some time down the line. Monumental achievement for Larian Studios and one of the best RPGs ever made! Kudos Swen and the whole team for the crazy amount of work that had to be put in to make it happen. Very impressive!
That was a great talk. I played the fuck out of DOS1, and finally got around to buying and playing DOS2 only a week ago. I'm still in Fort Joy, 40 hours into the game, and having the time of my life! I love this series so much. I can't wait for DoS3 or whatever else they work on!
The most interesting GDC video uploaded (as far as I'm concerned). A fascinating glimpse to the decision making process concerning one of my favorite games. Thanks GDC and Swen Vincke.
Even with the thought that the game could of been a lot better with optimal management, the game still turned out to be absolutely amazing despite the panic and frustration and it has easily become one of my favorite games ever.
"we did it on purpose, we did it because we know that players like to glitch game, so we think it's other way of promoting player agency." Ye, this is what i love about this game
It's one of the worst aspects in Larian's design approach, frankly. All systems are prone to break if put under enough pressure, but they love to make it trivially easy to leverage exploits, with a cascade effect on the entire game's balance.
@@TucoBenedicto It's great actually, and one of the things that make them hands down the best RPG devs right now. Breaking games is the most fun thing you can do, and a dev embracing that instead of making the game boring and restrictive is the correct approach.
@@aliasmcdoe No, it's not. I'ts POOR design. Because the player will always find ways to "break your system" anyway and as a designer the goal should be to make the core system as robust as it can be so the illusion of coherence and verisimilitude last as much as possible. When your answer as a designer to players "poking holes" in your games is "Yeah, let's take a pickaxe and make the holes BIGGER" you are failing at the task. For instance I don't want to see the player patted on the back if he brings ten explosive barrels around the fighting area before the encounter starts. I want to see NPCs turning on the player and saying "What the hell are you doing?" as soon as the first barrel is placed in their proximity.
Larian gives me hope about game publishing and development. EA and Bioware and all these triple A game developers are now all about greed instead of making a new and enjoyable games for people. I even have Larian's Dragon Commander game despite its silliness.
I loved DOS1 and was really excited for DOS2, but even to this day (5 tries at around 7 hrs each) I can't get into it sadly. I really bounced off the armour system, but I still appreciate the scope and scale of the game and still recommend it!
I don't know if calling them "humble indie studio" still applies when they now have around 200 employees broken down into 5 studios across 5 countries while raking in millions of dollars. I think they are squarely into the triple A development scene by now and there is nothing wrong with that, more power to them! I hope we see more studios rising to triple A status as gracefully as Larian, but let's call things what they are.
The game is a masterpiece. Beat it 3 times always discovering something new. It's challenging, deep and looks awesome. Played it with friends who to this day thanks me for introducing them to it. Thanks Swen and Larian team!
I had no problem with it either, but lots hated it. It devalued things like crowd control when you had to first strip away immunities before enemies could be affected by anything, but I thought it added another layer of tactics.
Here's as good a place as any to repeat what is wrong with it :) I'm one of the people who wrote essays on the Larian forums detailing what is wrong with it. First I will point to something Sven said in the talk. They reduced the number of Action Points, compared to DOS1, so that the players would feel the importance of each point. But what did the change in the armor system do? It completely erased any sense of agency to make sure your AP spending on CC abilities was well spent. Does the enemy have armor? Yes, therefore don't use CC. No, then use CC. You will never make the wrong choice. You will never have to ask yourself, "Is it worth it to risk using 2 AP on a CC ability that may not land its effect?" The entire cost-benefit equation was deleted from DOS2. This is not to say that DOS1 is the ideal system. Don't make the mistake of seeing any criticism of DOS2 as a comment in favor of the DOS1 system. The main flaw in DOS1 was that it was too easy to get to the point where your CC would always land with 100% certainty, including with your first attack in combat. But, that is exactly where things are in DOS2. Every fight takes the same format: apply pure DPS until armor is gone, then chain CC. This also makes HP completely irrelevant. Once an enemy has no armor them having 500 or 5000 hp changes nothing about how the fight will play out from that point on. The complete removal of randomness with CC abilities makes DOS2 a far easier game than it should be. If you knew your spell that costs 2 AP has a 60% chance of freezing the enemies, but your 3 AP spell has an 80% chance, you now actually have a decision to make that matters. And it is now a 3 way choice. Spend 2 or spend 3, but also can you afford to spend these points and not land the freeze? Are you also ready for that outcome? Adding that kind of decision making makes for a far more interesting combat. I think a better solution to either the DOS1 or the DOS2 system would be the following: - percent chance of CC landing - capped minimum and capped maximum chance so that it is never 0% and never 100% - higher AP cost abilities have higher chances of landing CC - abilities that have a damage component + CC component have lower chances of landing CC than pure CC abilities - when a CC status effect expires, you are immune to CC for a single turn. Chain CC must not be a thing. With these changes CC becomes a tool to influence a fight instead of something that brings it to a sudden, and boring finish as you just chain your way to victory without any risk. This would also make healing more important. In DOS1 and DOS2 healing was something you do occasionally because landing a CC on your opponent is always a better use of AP.
it's also worth talking about how armor affects your party as a whole; if you want to build a mixed magic/physical party then you'll suffer, because you'll have to chip away at two different armor bars before you can do any real HP damage or any CC, and so few enemies were missing one armor bar to make it worth it. this means that most playthroughs are spent focusing on a single 'side' of the combat skills because any points spent on the other 'side' are effectively wasted unless you're doing it for utility purposes, such as teleports or buffs. tying whether you can do CC to damage also means that the best way to play is to go full unga bunga and demolish the enemy as fast you can, because the more damage you deal, the faster you can knock them down. it also means that for the most part once you can get a CC ability to work, you're going to be able to do it for the rest of the fight, because their armor is already stripped and perserverance never gives enough armor back to matter. the divine war mod fixed this for the most part by removing armor entirely and replacing it with willpower points; each CC attempt is blocked by and removes a point of willpower, and when you don't have any more willpower you can be CC'd. perserverance, bless, and some other abilities now restore willpower, pretty much killing most CC loops. it falls flat at the end of the game where every enemy seems to have 7+ willpower (read: 7+ blocked attempts of CC abilities, which would require a 4-man party to blow out every turn they have on CCing) but in the first half of the game it's excellent.
@@rebeccapilcrow This is not quite true. Some magic damage skills apply cc that resists off armour, there are magic armour dealing spells for both fighters and rogues (flay skin, gag order, chloroform) and most encounters have a balanced mix of enemies that allows different damage dealers in your party to deal with different enemies. The biggest mistake people make is not paying attention to what scales off int / finnesse / strength. Plenty of skills balanced with base damage in mind that scale only with their tree.
Inspirational. Makes me enjoy playing OS l & ll that much more watching the challenges of creating these masterpieces. Wish there was more time for questionnaire. Here is a timeline of OS l and OS ll for your reference: June 2014 - OS l released Oct. 2015 - OS l Enhanced Edition released Oct. 2016 - Early Access OS ll Sept. 2017 - OS ll released Aug. 2018 - OS ll Definitive Edition released
@@igorthelight My friend in his thirties has never played RPGs, but he was looking for cooperative game. I persuaded him to play DOS 2 and then he spent hundreds of hours in it)
Thank these ppl they're the only ones giving us amazing games for over 30yrs and the only real game all yr goty bg3 dos1&2 as well but bg3 is really something special
This is the first time I see Larian acknowledge that the DOS2 armor system was not the right way to fix what was wrong with CC abilities in DOS1. I was afraid that we were going to continue seeing this same system as is, in their next game(s).
I wonder if some day they will also acknowledge that randomized itemization is bad in general and especially a garbage match for a game with a finite number of enemies and chests to loot.
@@TucoBenedicto Its even more surprising considering they take so much care and effort to design each battle to be a unique experience for the player. What comes after the battle is done - random loot?
Sad, because it's actually a great system and BG3 is a massive downgrade with awful DnD randomization that absolutely messes up the tactical combat they created in DOS2.
12:45 I hope to God they do not decide to skimp out on DOS3, keep on doing it the hard way, because the hard work really shows in the game. Very few companies do what they do nowadays.
Perhaps you have a good solution for keeping Swen illuminated while avoiding the glare of stage lights? I'm curious about it. In my own experience any direct light blinds to a degree, at least if you still want to effectively illuminate the actors on stage. And to finish: he doesn't have to see them clearly to answer their questions and connect with the other person.
@@destroyermaker you may be right. It may also be that Swen isn't used to stage lights. Being a stage rat myself, I can tell you that the only people I've ever seen were in the front row, and they were mostly silhouettes.
As with game dev and many other things, it's always a compromise. Either you let the presenter see the audience or you let the audience see the presenter. I also think Sven might have sensitive eyes or some condition because there's not a lot of people who do that.
Suuuuuuuuuuper glad they included voice acting in it. It really elevates the game from amazing to GOAT status. Fascinating video looking at how it all somehow fell into place to make something special.
I was able to get DOS2 on steam bc it was on discount. And the game is just fantastic. One of the most fun RPG I've played. And by fun, I don't mean just fun to play. The puzzles, the jokes it was amazing. And the GM mode made me and my squad have fun. Buy the game already, if you haven't yet.
Fantastic talk. I love the game but I would have been happy with a 90 hour game. It sounds like a lot of the problems were related to scale. I remember being kind of 'done' with it for the last 20% of the game or so. Maybe having my guys mind controlled and then use my consumables I'd been saving for most of the game got to me =)
Some producer should have noticed that he was finding the lights glaring in the Q&A portion and maybe dimmed or angled the light away.... poor guy had to shield his eyes with his arm the whole time, lol.
I love how - especially with the second question in the QA - it really shows that they took time to understand the audience, bc oh lord did we enjoy ourselves when stealing shit from someone while talking to them and then juggling it around to dodge body searches. Also I was surprised how he said "act 1, act 2 .. and then act 3 ofc" so confidently, considering how the other games in the series are named ;p
i can't believe sven didn't mention music at all and noone has asked about it. will the track *drunk on dwarven mirth* will be on their next games as well? that's like, *the divinity march* people!
divinity 2 was so good. the onyl problem i had with it was that after the first island the game actively fought against me to even let me play it. every time id save it was a 50/50 chace for it to crash. and every time id load it was also a question of it it would actually load. i lost like 40-50 hours to this.
Unfortunately due to the adjustment to stop players getting too much xp, many people ended up getting not enough xp! I guess this problem is impossible to eliminate entirely.
And the problem can also trivially be solved by scaling the amount of experience you get from enemies higher/lower than you. In fact if they had even slightly more exponential exp requirement growth and accompanying exp reward structure everyone would basically always be at the same level.
i feel like the only gamer that doesnt get bothered by being stronger than the enemies as the game progresses. if im doing everything and getting overlvled well that was the whole point i wanted to be stronger than the enemies not the enemies being stronger even though i keep lvling.
So, you can pay the people in St. Petersburg 50% of the wages in Gent? I also experience, every industry puts much pressure on wages here in Germany, mostly by outsourcing e.g. to india. The problem is, cost here is high. Roof on house needs replacement... ~20000 EUR. Heating system broken, 10000 EUR. Shit goes down somehow.
DoS:2 is one of the best games of the decade and certainly one of the best RPG's of all time. And it is highly underrated. That's just my humble opinion.
I didn't know the lights were bothering him until he could not put down an arm while answering questions. Imagine how irritated he was during that entire hour long presentation...
Fallen Heroes has more of an XCOM design to it where you have a squad who goes on missions. I am worried about it being developed by the same studio that made Expeditions: Viking. That game was released as a bug riddled mess.
I hope there's going to be a video about BG3 too someday after the release, especially talking about how the new developing concepts he talked about in this video worked out for them and what kind of new problems might have arose from those.
probably next GDC. which is, if i remember correctly, from 18th march to 22nd march
I can't believe they weren't going to include voice acting. It ended up being one of the best parts of DOS2
It's expensive and a lot of hardcore fans (i.e. backers and people active on forums) have the mistaken belief that voice over means complexity has to suffer.
But the truth is the broader market much, much prefers to have voiced dialogue.
Same. I was planning on waiting for a sale to buy it, but after hearing the news about full voice acting, I bought the game day one mainly because I wanted to support their bold decision, even if I planned to do most of my playing after multiple bug fixes get released.
@@mygaffer The broader market is what ruined the majority of decent games in the past.
So the broader market can go fuck itself as far as i'm concerned.
@xmeany Step out of my bubble and embrace mediocrity?
No thanks, divinity got lucky with it's 100% voice acting nonsense, it came out at the right time and larian had the talent to back it up.
Other games don't have that luxury, i hope other studios don't jump on this trend and think they have to have voice acting at the expense of everything else.
Voice acting is a luxury, not a necessity.
Wasteland 2 and pathfinder are 2 rpg's that absolutely suck at keeping immersion 100% because they tried to implement voice acting in a game that didn't need or warrant it and they didn't even bother to have 100% voice acting so it ended up hurting the game more than it helped.
Keep your nonsense out of my video games, thanks.
Larian did internal survey with early access users about whether they prefer full voice acting for DOS2 with 1 year delay or full game without it. You can imagine what the result was.
I remember a dev video blog with Swen saying voice acting wasn't realistic because there were so many lines. And they actually did it. It's pretty amazing by Larian.
Larian all the way from devine divinity to divinity original sin 2. you have my full support. what a fantastic studio
DOS2 is easily one of the best rpgs I’ve ever played. So much replay value and overall charm. I had never played a game like it before and fell in love. I still play it. DOS2 and Darkest Dungeon to me are the at the top when it comes to rpgs.
Divinity original Sin 2 has shaken my Viewpoint of what an outstanding RPG can deliver through atmosphere and foremost storytelling.
Thus Game ist great Art.
Just bought this for ps4. It's what I've been looking for, for years. Thank you to every blood sweat and tear that went into the making of a truly fabulous rpg
They’re special. hardwork, passion and integrity got them here.
This is a great example of how smart people can come up with great ideas to optimize that end up actually tying their arms behind their back.
Also an example of how formerly good companies like Blizzard and Bioware degrade in quality as the smart/innovative developers leave because of corporate culture and the games suffer because of it. When you start designing game by investor target goals, you lose something fundamental.
yet its employees did not earn 10x more. they worked harder and earned the same for more work. yay! real-life
DOS2 is hands down my favorite CRPG, hell its my favorite RPG period. So well done, plenty of things to do and I'm always excited for a fight.
My favorite RPG of all time. Larian really knows how to make great characters, and how to allow players to make REAL choices. They do it better than any other studio in memory
I would raise you CDProject Red
@@kocashima The Witcher games are a lot more scripted and streamlined with a large focus on action and storytelling, not to say they're bad, they're really good, but this is a better rpg. Sorry for the super late reply :P
Bethesda look incompetent compared to these guys
@coffee: the account an RPG game is called that because it let you play a role. The Witcher 3 is my personal favorite because the choices you make change the outcome of the story. With the witcher 3 even some minor events can effect the story latter on or how other quests finish. In the Witcher 3 you don't chose who you play as you are Geralt the RPG aspect is how you play Geralt and how your choices effect the world around you. Divinity 2 the area's dont feel like a world but more as an open sandbox, which no matter what you do will lead you to the next open sandbox. This isnt to say D2OS is bad but I belive the Witcher 3 nailed impact of choice which is essential to an RPG
man you guys have gotta play more RPGs if you think larian is the best at letting you made choices and writing good characters
Best CRPG, Best COOP
don't forget .. best Kickstarter Campaigns too! DO:S Updates were always enlightening, fun, and did a great job showcasing a large number of their artists/devs contributions.
He is so right about hacking the game feeling good, I haven't played this game yet (now I want to)
But I remember encountering an obviously unique enemy in Oblivion, and she was way too hard to kill for my level 7 character, so i scraped all the gold I could muster and bought a 10 use staff that dealt absolutely ridiculous 99 damage per hit (at that point weapons you can use deal a max of 7-9 damage) and then I just unloaded the entire charge of that thing into her, killing her with the last strike while continiously running backwards and devouring health potions. Felt Immensely satisfying to pull off something like that. She drops the sword with highest base damage in the game, and it looks badass. Still my best memory from the game
sounds like umbra, I've never fought her legitmately in my life thx to prima lol
larian is one of the very few studios prioritizing quality over $
Exactly!
it’s interesting how many nerds are libertarian but seem to naturally conclude that capitalist interests devalue everything, or will resent companies for chasing profit
I found this comment ironic since one of the first things the guy said was how they looked at moving because they could get 2 devs for the price of 1.
That's because they're an independent developer that have been developing the same genre of games since the late 90s. No parent company to force market research down their throats. Their revenue comes from love of their games.
That is because they are self published and the guy in charge actually loves making videogames.
Larian is one of the few companies I still trust and have faith in now that Bethesda, BIoware and Blizzard have all gone down the drain and went down the path of greed and not caring about their players. DOS:2 is one of my favorite games of all time! Up there with Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Bioshock Infinite, Heroes 3, Diablo 2, Ocarina of Time and The Witcher etc.
Fantastic talk. It is almost baffling to hear how many things Sven did not end up being satisfied with when the game is considered by almost everyone a near perfect RPG - armor, crafting, AP system, story, etc.
I had already been immensly excited on Baldur's Gate III but this just brought it on another level when they think there's so many more elements where they want to improve on.
And Sven, thank you for demanding to make multiplayer RPGs. These are our favorite co-op games with my spouse and the instant BG3 has local co-op, we'll get it.
You guys completely changed the way I look at videogames, DOS2 is so much better than anything I played previously. Thank you for all the immense work, you guys gave us a gem.
Larian is the new Black Isle
This comment aged extremly well.
In more way than one, as of E3 2019
Is that studio also?
The comment has continued to age well
Very good talk. He’s very frank about difficulties and failures that went into making this game. The game’s biggest flaw was probably how unpolished the content in the second half felt vs the first. The fact that they released a huge patch to address this (including re-recorded dialogue) shows the dedication to making the best rpg they could.
EDIT: managing the immense number of dialogue paths and script choices sounds like a complete nightmare.
Absolutely amazing.
It just shows you how some work a 9 to 5, while others battle dragons and attrition.
Developers you can only admire.
Somebody turn down the lights!
this and that documentary really show his passion for his craft. nothing but respect for swen and larian studios
Thank you for sharing the studios experience! Very valuable talk for understanding the processes, approaches and possible problems.
Great talk, Swen! :) Many thanks.
Very interesting presentation. DOS is the kind of scale of game where the basic essence of making video games and constantly iterating on itself starts being a gargantuan pain in the ass at some time down the line. Monumental achievement for Larian Studios and one of the best RPGs ever made! Kudos Swen and the whole team for the crazy amount of work that had to be put in to make it happen. Very impressive!
That was a great talk. I played the fuck out of DOS1, and finally got around to buying and playing DOS2 only a week ago. I'm still in Fort Joy, 40 hours into the game, and having the time of my life! I love this series so much. I can't wait for DoS3 or whatever else they work on!
This game is just amazing. It is awesome how transparent this studio is. Great presentation!
I want one singular person to stand up and yell "I love you" because we all love him for what he has given us.
And now we have Baldurs Gate 3 4 years later. 🎉🎉🎉 They keep climbing higher. What a great visionary and CEO.
The most interesting GDC video uploaded (as far as I'm concerned). A fascinating glimpse to the decision making process concerning one of my favorite games. Thanks GDC and Swen Vincke.
Even with the thought that the game could of been a lot better with optimal management, the game still turned out to be absolutely amazing despite the panic and frustration and it has easily become one of my favorite games ever.
*Larian is the brilliant* example of next level of adventure game development *after Sierra* ...
✔️
They set quite a standard for modern RPG's, i bought it on xbox just to support the studio lol.
25:00 DOS2 ended up being infinitely more exciting and commercially successful than competing crpgs, while shadow of war......
lol!!!
@@ps1hagrid770 yeah fair enough. The base game i enjoyed but definitely not the DLCs.
"we did it on purpose, we did it because we know that players like to glitch game, so we think it's other way of promoting player agency." Ye, this is what i love about this game
the nerd that asked that question, lol
@@timyo6288 it had to be done
It's one of the worst aspects in Larian's design approach, frankly. All systems are prone to break if put under enough pressure, but they love to make it trivially easy to leverage exploits, with a cascade effect on the entire game's balance.
@@TucoBenedicto It's great actually, and one of the things that make them hands down the best RPG devs right now. Breaking games is the most fun thing you can do, and a dev embracing that instead of making the game boring and restrictive is the correct approach.
@@aliasmcdoe No, it's not. I'ts POOR design. Because the player will always find ways to "break your system" anyway and as a designer the goal should be to make the core system as robust as it can be so the illusion of coherence and verisimilitude last as much as possible. When your answer as a designer to players "poking holes" in your games is "Yeah, let's take a pickaxe and make the holes BIGGER" you are failing at the task. For instance I don't want to see the player patted on the back if he brings ten explosive barrels around the fighting area before the encounter starts. I want to see NPCs turning on the player and saying "What the hell are you doing?" as soon as the first barrel is placed in their proximity.
Larian gives me hope about game publishing and development. EA and Bioware and all these triple A game developers are now all about greed instead of making a new and enjoyable games for people. I even have Larian's Dragon Commander game despite its silliness.
I loved DOS1 and was really excited for DOS2, but even to this day (5 tries at around 7 hrs each) I can't get into it sadly. I really bounced off the armour system, but I still appreciate the scope and scale of the game and still recommend it!
I really like humble Indie studio explain their journey. It is so different than cocky AAA studios. Hope that good games will be made by good people.
I don't know if calling them "humble indie studio" still applies when they now have around 200 employees broken down into 5 studios across 5 countries while raking in millions of dollars. I think they are squarely into the triple A development scene by now and there is nothing wrong with that, more power to them! I hope we see more studios rising to triple A status as gracefully as Larian, but let's call things what they are.
@@Drakk707 they are still financially independent according to this talk, so...
@@cyberpiok439 so is CD Projekt Red. You wanna call them humble indie studio too?
>Contacted UK
>studio in Dublin
*Enraged Irishman intensifies*
The game is a masterpiece. Beat it 3 times always discovering something new. It's challenging, deep and looks awesome. Played it with friends who to this day thanks me for introducing them to it. Thanks Swen and Larian team!
I actually really liked the armor system, funny to hear that it wasn't received well initially.
I had no problem with it either, but lots hated it. It devalued things like crowd control when you had to first strip away immunities before enemies could be affected by anything, but I thought it added another layer of tactics.
Here's as good a place as any to repeat what is wrong with it :) I'm one of the people who wrote essays on the Larian forums detailing what is wrong with it.
First I will point to something Sven said in the talk. They reduced the number of Action Points, compared to DOS1, so that the players would feel the importance of each point.
But what did the change in the armor system do? It completely erased any sense of agency to make sure your AP spending on CC abilities was well spent.
Does the enemy have armor? Yes, therefore don't use CC. No, then use CC. You will never make the wrong choice. You will never have to ask yourself, "Is it worth it to risk using 2 AP on a CC ability that may not land its effect?" The entire cost-benefit equation was deleted from DOS2.
This is not to say that DOS1 is the ideal system. Don't make the mistake of seeing any criticism of DOS2 as a comment in favor of the DOS1 system. The main flaw in DOS1 was that it was too easy to get to the point where your CC would always land with 100% certainty, including with your first attack in combat. But, that is exactly where things are in DOS2.
Every fight takes the same format: apply pure DPS until armor is gone, then chain CC. This also makes HP completely irrelevant. Once an enemy has no armor them having 500 or 5000 hp changes nothing about how the fight will play out from that point on.
The complete removal of randomness with CC abilities makes DOS2 a far easier game than it should be.
If you knew your spell that costs 2 AP has a 60% chance of freezing the enemies, but your 3 AP spell has an 80% chance, you now actually have a decision to make that matters. And it is now a 3 way choice. Spend 2 or spend 3, but also can you afford to spend these points and not land the freeze? Are you also ready for that outcome?
Adding that kind of decision making makes for a far more interesting combat.
I think a better solution to either the DOS1 or the DOS2 system would be the following:
- percent chance of CC landing
- capped minimum and capped maximum chance so that it is never 0% and never 100%
- higher AP cost abilities have higher chances of landing CC
- abilities that have a damage component + CC component have lower chances of landing CC than pure CC abilities
- when a CC status effect expires, you are immune to CC for a single turn. Chain CC must not be a thing.
With these changes CC becomes a tool to influence a fight instead of something that brings it to a sudden, and boring finish as you just chain your way to victory without any risk.
This would also make healing more important. In DOS1 and DOS2 healing was something you do occasionally because landing a CC on your opponent is always a better use of AP.
it's also worth talking about how armor affects your party as a whole; if you want to build a mixed magic/physical party then you'll suffer, because you'll have to chip away at two different armor bars before you can do any real HP damage or any CC, and so few enemies were missing one armor bar to make it worth it.
this means that most playthroughs are spent focusing on a single 'side' of the combat skills because any points spent on the other 'side' are effectively wasted unless you're doing it for utility purposes, such as teleports or buffs.
tying whether you can do CC to damage also means that the best way to play is to go full unga bunga and demolish the enemy as fast you can, because the more damage you deal, the faster you can knock them down. it also means that for the most part once you can get a CC ability to work, you're going to be able to do it for the rest of the fight, because their armor is already stripped and perserverance never gives enough armor back to matter.
the divine war mod fixed this for the most part by removing armor entirely and replacing it with willpower points; each CC attempt is blocked by and removes a point of willpower, and when you don't have any more willpower you can be CC'd. perserverance, bless, and some other abilities now restore willpower, pretty much killing most CC loops.
it falls flat at the end of the game where every enemy seems to have 7+ willpower (read: 7+ blocked attempts of CC abilities, which would require a 4-man party to blow out every turn they have on CCing) but in the first half of the game it's excellent.
@@rebeccapilcrow This is not quite true. Some magic damage skills apply cc that resists off armour, there are magic armour dealing spells for both fighters and rogues (flay skin, gag order, chloroform) and most encounters have a balanced mix of enemies that allows different damage dealers in your party to deal with different enemies.
The biggest mistake people make is not paying attention to what scales off int / finnesse / strength. Plenty of skills balanced with base damage in mind that scale only with their tree.
@@kenmolinaro nice explaination
Inspirational. Makes me enjoy playing OS l & ll that much more watching the challenges of creating these masterpieces. Wish there was more time for questionnaire.
Here is a timeline of OS l and OS ll for your reference:
June 2014 - OS l released
Oct. 2015 - OS l Enhanced Edition released
Oct. 2016 - Early Access OS ll
Sept. 2017 - OS ll released
Aug. 2018 - OS ll Definitive Edition released
Swen! Glad to see him :)
One of the best GDC talks out there.
Really nice and informative talk. i am not really into rpg games but i put 200 hours into dos2
Doesn't this mean you're technically very into rpg games? :)
@@VladyVeselinov He just wanted to look what this game is about :-)
@@igorthelight My friend in his thirties has never played RPGs, but he was looking for cooperative game. I persuaded him to play DOS 2 and then he spent hundreds of hours in it)
@@ObesityStupidity :-)
voice recording was the reason I started playing this game since I really hate reading on my computer... best rpg i've ever played!
Thank these ppl they're the only ones giving us amazing games for over 30yrs and the only real game all yr goty bg3 dos1&2 as well but bg3 is really something special
Can't wait to watch the Baldur's gate 3 making of talk next year :)
You make it for the fans, and they will come
What a gem! just got this game for iOS an epic adventure on iPad Pro!
Nothing but respect for Larian! I will back any game they publish. Fantastic devs! Keep up the work guys!
Thank you for posting these
Really great talk, it gave a clear insight into the development of my favourite game of 2017 and one of my favourite RPGs of all time. Thanks Larian!
Larian Sudios and CD Project RED -> the two legends
TRUE....
Include *Sierra*
This comment didn't age well loool
You folks might be right on the last one but not so much on the first. Larian Studios still is.
I really liked both D:OS talks (esp. the first one) and this guy, there's like so many double meanings and biblical prophecies within.
This is the first time I see Larian acknowledge that the DOS2 armor system was not the right way to fix what was wrong with CC abilities in DOS1. I was afraid that we were going to continue seeing this same system as is, in their next game(s).
I wonder if some day they will also acknowledge that randomized itemization is bad in general and especially a garbage match for a game with a finite number of enemies and chests to loot.
@@TucoBenedicto Its even more surprising considering they take so much care and effort to design each battle to be a unique experience for the player. What comes after the battle is done - random loot?
Sad, because it's actually a great system and BG3 is a massive downgrade with awful DnD randomization that absolutely messes up the tactical combat they created in DOS2.
12:45
I hope to God they do not decide to skimp out on DOS3, keep on doing it the hard way, because the hard work really shows in the game.
Very few companies do what they do nowadays.
@@TheKarabanera Baldur's Gate 3 for example?
Glad they added the voice acting. Can't imagine the game without it. Although the background NPCs can get a bit annoying sometimes.
How hard can it be to lower the luminance of the lights on QA session? Obviously it is disturbing the presenter.
Perhaps you have a good solution for keeping Swen illuminated while avoiding the glare of stage lights? I'm curious about it. In my own experience any direct light blinds to a degree, at least if you still want to effectively illuminate the actors on stage.
And to finish: he doesn't have to see them clearly to answer their questions and connect with the other person.
@@TrueRahf I've watched a lot of presentations and never seen someone have to do this. So surely someone messed up here.
@@destroyermaker you may be right. It may also be that Swen isn't used to stage lights.
Being a stage rat myself, I can tell you that the only people I've ever seen were in the front row, and they were mostly silhouettes.
As with game dev and many other things, it's always a compromise. Either you let the presenter see the audience or you let the audience see the presenter. I also think Sven might have sensitive eyes or some condition because there's not a lot of people who do that.
Suuuuuuuuuuper glad they included voice acting in it. It really elevates the game from amazing to GOAT status. Fascinating video looking at how it all somehow fell into place to make something special.
GOAT?
@@adrienspeight1183 Greatest of All Time
Can’t wait for the Baldur’s gate 3 document
I miss the gdc talk about the different parts. This is just the manager talk. I would love the gdc about graphics, sound, etc,.
If only it was high enough resolution to read the slides
I was able to get DOS2 on steam bc it was on discount. And the game is just fantastic. One of the most fun RPG I've played. And by fun, I don't mean just fun to play. The puzzles, the jokes it was amazing. And the GM mode made me and my squad have fun. Buy the game already, if you haven't yet.
Fantastic talk. I love the game but I would have been happy with a 90 hour game. It sounds like a lot of the problems were related to scale. I remember being kind of 'done' with it for the last 20% of the game or so. Maybe having my guys mind controlled and then use my consumables I'd been saving for most of the game got to me =)
and baldurs gate 3 is supposed to be bigger despite having one less act.
Some producer should have noticed that he was finding the lights glaring in the Q&A portion and maybe dimmed or angled the light away.... poor guy had to shield his eyes with his arm the whole time, lol.
15:55 They had, as the saying goes; too many cooks in the kitchen. But in the end in all turned out very well, I'm glad :)
Amazing game! So underrated, one of my all time favourites and only RPG I finished the whole way through in recent memory! So good!
Seriously, a modern classic, we will remember this one for a long time.
I love how - especially with the second question in the QA - it really shows that they took time to understand the audience, bc oh lord did we enjoy ourselves when stealing shit from someone while talking to them and then juggling it around to dodge body searches.
Also I was surprised how he said "act 1, act 2 .. and then act 3 ofc" so confidently, considering how the other games in the series are named ;p
i can't believe sven didn't mention music at all and noone has asked about it. will the track *drunk on dwarven mirth* will be on their next games as well? that's like, *the divinity march* people!
Cos everyone will keep great world silence for Kirill. He is genius.
One of the MOST addictive games for me to date.
Not only best game of 2017.Best game of last years.
divinity 2 was so good. the onyl problem i had with it was that after the first island the game actively fought against me to even let me play it. every time id save it was a 50/50 chace for it to crash. and every time id load it was also a question of it it would actually load. i lost like 40-50 hours to this.
Such an amazing game and incredible team!
DOS2 is a masterpiece well done indeed
I love this game! I just started a few days ago.
Can we get one of these conferences with the developers of Anthem and Mass Effect Andromeda?
Thanks for this masterpeace. I thanks for never dropping the couch coop.
How i yearned for a worthy game to rival Baldurs Gate and along came Divinity Original Sin :))))))
These guys are now developing BG3.
that q&a with the hand up to block the lights was sooooo weird...and funny
Unfortunately due to the adjustment to stop players getting too much xp, many people ended up getting not enough xp! I guess this problem is impossible to eliminate entirely.
Dunno about that...
Its rather easy to get to lvl 21 or even 22, even tho the max level should be 20.
And the problem can also trivially be solved by scaling the amount of experience you get from enemies higher/lower than you. In fact if they had even slightly more exponential exp requirement growth and accompanying exp reward structure everyone would basically always be at the same level.
Bravo!
My fav strategic rpg game ryt now. Story is hard to grasp but the combat is so satisfying
This is so awesome.
Great insight, thanks.
23:00 trying to figure out what act this is is hurting my brain.
Listening to this man makes me even more confident about larian studios.
i feel like the only gamer that doesnt get bothered by being stronger than the enemies as the game progresses. if im doing everything and getting overlvled well that was the whole point i wanted to be stronger than the enemies not the enemies being stronger even though i keep lvling.
So, you can pay the people in St. Petersburg 50% of the wages in Gent? I also experience, every industry puts much pressure on wages here in Germany, mostly by outsourcing e.g. to india. The problem is, cost here is high. Roof on house needs replacement... ~20000 EUR. Heating system broken, 10000 EUR. Shit goes down somehow.
53:00 "Its a 120 hours game"
*Me looking at my game time on steam, being 560 hours...*
*Sips cup of coffee* "If you say so Swen..."
but is that a single run through?
@@megamike15 my very first run with a friend took 280 hours
Game is awesome. 👍👍👍
Where can one find the wallpaper from 12:00?
i love larian and especially swen
DoS:2 is one of the best games of the decade and certainly one of the best RPG's of all time.
And it is highly underrated.
That's just my humble opinion.
overrated?
Huh? Overrated??
@@subsume7904 My bad, I fixed it
@@MsPoiuytrewa Fixed it
I didn't know the lights were bothering him until he could not put down an arm while answering questions. Imagine how irritated he was during that entire hour long presentation...
This game is so good I watched this whole video.
Is there a new Divinity game in development? Will there be another Kickstarter?
Yeah it’s called divinity fallen heroes
@@epiktrojan311 as far as i know falles Heroes is from a another studio but they also working on a new title
@@epiktrojan311 Awesome, thank you!
Fallen Heroes has more of an XCOM design to it where you have a squad who goes on missions. I am worried about it being developed by the same studio that made Expeditions: Viking. That game was released as a bug riddled mess.
@@Sletal They are definitely working on a new title.
This is one of the best RPGs ever made. Thanks to Larian for ruining my social life. Lol.
GO LARIAN GOOO
I feel bad. They put in so much effort and then I just killed everything with one ability and a two ton ornate box.