Erdős-Woods Numbers - Numberphile

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
  • Featuring Dr James Grime on Erdős-Woods Numbers. More links & stuff in full description below ↓↓↓
    James Grime: www.singingban...
    More James on Numberphile: bit.ly/grimevideos
    Erdős-Woods Numbers in the OEIS: oeis.org/A059756 (and see links to other related sequences, including oeis.org/A059757)
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ความคิดเห็น • 353

  • @numberphile
    @numberphile  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +38

    More James on Numberphile: bit.ly/grimevideos

    • @taliabutton1593
      @taliabutton1593 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The algorithm to find them is actually quite simple.

    • @djkonsa940
      @djkonsa940 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Hello sir I am from India I want to learn the trick of your number can you give me your account so that I can contact you please help me I want to learn

  •  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +382

    I find it deeply satisfying to know that Erdő means woods or forest in Hungarian.

    • @xinpingdonohoe3978
      @xinpingdonohoe3978 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      Now I do too.
      Wow.

    • @apoolplayer278
      @apoolplayer278 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      what is your name, what does your mother call you?

    • @ChuffingNorah
      @ChuffingNorah 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I'm looking for Wood, has anyone got any Wood? Channelling Sheldon here!

    • @andrasszabo1570
      @andrasszabo1570 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      That's correct. With the suffix -s erdős it means an area that's got a little bit of forest, but not completely full of trees.

    • @tfuhl
      @tfuhl 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      From now on, I'll just call them the Forest Numbers

  • @illogicmath
    @illogicmath 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +109

    The prof's shocked face at 9:52 when Brady asked about overlapping sequences was priceless!

    • @fatsquirrel75
      @fatsquirrel75 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

      I was impressed when he asked if they have to be even. Was thinking the same thing. I too was surprised when he asked about overlapping sequences. Brady's questions just keep getting better.

    • @illogicmath
      @illogicmath 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      @@fatsquirrel75 yes, indeed he should get an honorary math PhD degree

  • @xdkristof
    @xdkristof 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +110

    make the sequence 2 numbers long, you won't have to cross anything off because there will be nothing to cross off, ez win

    • @johnbennett1465
      @johnbennett1465 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +21

      Yes, I came down here to say this. As a programmer, I always check the edge cases.

    • @digitig
      @digitig 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That was my thought too. 1 must be a (degenerate) Erdős-Wood number.

    • @mydwchannel
      @mydwchannel 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      First number =1

    • @ragnkja
      @ragnkja 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That’s trivial.

    • @이름-k8v6v
      @이름-k8v6v 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      k>1

  • @m3morizes
    @m3morizes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +163

    9:44 I am always in awe of Brady's ability to ask such beautiful questions that either I was thinking of, or after hearing, can't believe I hadn't thought of first.

  • @builder1013
    @builder1013 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +307

    “And now I’m gonna make a sequence until I get bored”
    me as a math kid be like

    • @muskyoxes
      @muskyoxes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I thought it was going to be a cool sequence, then he goes +1, +2, +3, ...

    • @gw6667
      @gw6667 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      English much?

    • @builder1013
      @builder1013 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@gw6667 It's in meme format :/

    • @builder1013
      @builder1013 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@muskyoxes Yeah ik :/

  • @vegalyra1517
    @vegalyra1517 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +409

    "I've thought of something funnier than 24... 35!"

    • @asheep7797
      @asheep7797 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +55

      On a channel about mathematics, a factorial joke is expected.

    • @eboone
      @eboone 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      @@asheep7797 whar

    • @asheep7797
      @asheep7797 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

      @@eboonesomeone will eventually make a joke about OP writing 35! in their comment

    • @zzzaphod8507
      @zzzaphod8507 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      @@asheep7797 Yes, what an unexpectedly large number

    • @johannschiel6734
      @johannschiel6734 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Are people actually missing here, that this is a Spongebob joke, or am I missing that ... or is it even meant to be? ;-)

  • @spenjaminn3846
    @spenjaminn3846 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +70

    5:01 even funnier how there has already been a numberphile video about the number 2184

    • @wyattstevens8574
      @wyattstevens8574 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I thought it was 2084 instead (were you thinking of the "trapped knight" video?)

    • @spenjaminn3846
      @spenjaminn3846 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      @@wyattstevens8574 “Why 1980 was a great year to be born… but 2184 will be better”

    • @wyattstevens8574
      @wyattstevens8574 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      @@spenjaminn3846 Oh right! That was a Parker Square of a guess on my part!

    • @EconAtheist
      @EconAtheist 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      it's no 1729 but still it's quite lovely

    • @ianstopher9111
      @ianstopher9111 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

      Almost all mathematicians have 1729 or 9271 as their PIN. By almost all, I mean there are a finite number of exceptions.

  • @A-V
    @A-V 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    @09:09 I think the most surprising thing was seeing that the two mathematicians, Erdös & Woods, have the Hungarian version and the English version of the same basic name :)

    • @EperkeDashh
      @EperkeDashh 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      I literally thought it was the same guy

    • @A-V
      @A-V 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There's the forest guy(s) & now there's the strawberry guy ;) (presumably you know what I'm referring to...)

    • @EperkeDashh
      @EperkeDashh 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@A-V im not a guy lol

    • @A-V
      @A-V 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@EperkeDashh Elnézest kérek :)

    • @arnoldmuller1703
      @arnoldmuller1703 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I would bet that was the reason why E got interested to collaborate!

  • @buzzzysin
    @buzzzysin 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +94

    Around 10:00 "Great question! I don't know!" This is the essence of discovery and why I love this channel

  • @matthewkendrick8280
    @matthewkendrick8280 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +108

    All of them are divisible by one, hope this helps!

    • @v3le
      @v3le 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      That's a great discovery, you have a mind of a mathematician!

    • @ianstopher9111
      @ianstopher9111 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      James only says shares a factor, but let us be generous. He means a prime factor.

    • @DouglasZwick
      @DouglasZwick 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Brilliant insight, well played, thank you

  • @slalomsteve
    @slalomsteve 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +81

    So nice to see James back.

    • @origamikatakana
      @origamikatakana 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      So nice to see James' back.

    • @adityadavda1081
      @adityadavda1081 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes Mate!!

  • @TigburtJones
    @TigburtJones 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    Maths and science are the lifeblood of imagination. Imagination is the soul of creative human endeavor.
    Never stop creating.

  • @SovernGaming
    @SovernGaming 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

    This number sequence comes up in an episode of Mr. Robot when solving a puzzle. Fun lil cameo

    • @pthomasgarcia
      @pthomasgarcia 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Red Wheel Barrow menu

  • @JeanYvesBouguet
    @JeanYvesBouguet 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Has anyone noticed that James Grime does not age? He has not changed in decades! What’s his secret?

    • @ChuffingNorah
      @ChuffingNorah 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      He has a large Oil Painting in his Attic of himself, on which are painted all the Sins of the World, such as 2+2=5; x^3+y^3 =z^3; and Donald Trump for Prez!

  • @stanleydodds9
    @stanleydodds9 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +71

    To answer one of the questions, yes, sequences do overlap (and sufficiently long sequences will always overlap with some other sequence(s)). Note that for any start point and end point, we can add any multiple of the product of all required prime factors to both ends, and it will still be a valid sequence of the same length - call this product of primes a period of this length (there may be other sequences within each period, but it is sufficient to know some finite period exists). Since there are infinitely many Erdos-Woods numbers, they are unbounded, and are eventually larger than this period and larger than the minimum start point of the sequences of that period. That means any sequence of sufficiently large length must overlap with at least one of these sequences which occur with sufficiently small period.

    • @nbrader
      @nbrader 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      When you say "Note that for any start point and end point, we can add any multiple of the product of all required prime factors to both ends, and it will still be a valid sequence of the same length", can you give what you mean in symbols?
      As you said "of the same length" I take it when you say "add" you don't mean make the length longer (concatenation) and instead mean integer addition. I'm then confused by what you mean by "to both ends". Surely in order for the resulting sequence to be valid it must consist of consecutive integers and so increasing any number and keeping the length fixed requires that you increase all number by the same amount, not just the ends.

    • @nbrader
      @nbrader 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Did you mean to say "required prime factors _of_ both ends"? For example, in the sequence [10,11,12,13] the "required prime factors of both ends" would be the set {2,5,13} because the set of prime factors of 10 is {2,5} and the set of prime factors of 13 is {13}.

    • @nbrader
      @nbrader 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I think I follow your reasoning now I've made the above mentioned clarifications. Thanks for your insight. :)

    • @stanleydodds9
      @stanleydodds9 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@nbrader suppose a valid sequence starts at a and ends at b. Then each c in the integer interval (a, b) is divisible by some prime p = f(c) which divides at least one of a or b. Let P be the product of all distinct f(c) for c in (a, b).
      Then consider the sequence of integers in (a + P, b + P). Each integer d in this interval satisfies a + P < d < b + P, therefore a < d - P < b. Let p = f(d - P), well defined by d - P in the range (a, b). p is some prime that divides d - P, one of a or b, and also divides P by construction of P. Therefore p divides (d - P) + P = d, and p divides one of a + P and b + P. So each d in the interval (a + P, b + P) satisfies the condition. So this is a valid sequence with the same length as (a, b). You can do the same for any multiple of P.

    • @stanleydodds9
      @stanleydodds9 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@nbrader exactly which primes you use doesn't matter, so long as it is sufficient to mark every integer in the sequence. So, one example would be every distinct prime factor of the start and the end. That's certainly sufficient. But you might not need all of the prime factors in general.
      You could even be lazy and find an even less strict bound for the period, like the lcm of both ends, or even the product of both ends. These all give multiples of the minimum period but are still sufficient for an existence proof.

  • @asheep7797
    @asheep7797 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    The challenge is possible with a pen and paper.
    n = starting point, n+k = ending point, k = woods number
    Let us focus on the even numbers.
    Finding k = 903 for odd numbers is trivial, and is left as an exercise for the reader.
    We must first note that for both n+1 and n+k-1 to be reached, a jump of k-1 must be traversed for both numbers, since jumping by 1 is not allowed.
    If both sides were both multiples of k-1 and k, this would require n and n+1 to have a common factor. This is clearly not the case.
    Therefore, k-1 must be composite, with factors of at least two different primes.
    This rules out 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14.
    16 is now our best shot.
    From now on, k=16.
    N = the set of all natural numbers
    If n was odd, n+8 would always be in the set. n is therefore even.
    Let us now write down the list of remaining numbers to remove.
    n+1, n+2, n+3, n+4, n+5, n+6, n+7, n+8, n+9, n+10, n+11, n+12, n+13, n+14, n+15
    n+2N is trivially removed.
    n+1, n+3, n+5, n+7, n+9, n+11, n+13, n+15
    Now, we need to make choices. For now, let's have n divisible by 3, and n+16 divisible by 5.
    n+5, n+7, n+13
    n+13 is now unreachable from n+16, so n must be a multiple of 13 to reach it.
    This line of logic also works for n+7. n+5 can use this in the opposite direction.
    This means n must be a multiple of 2, 3, 7 and 13, and n+16 must be a multiple of 2, 5 and 11.
    Simply, a multiple of 546 should be 16 below a multiple of 110 for this to work.
    Where do we find this?
    546 ❌
    1092 ❌
    1638 ❌
    2184 ✅
    This is the minimum bound for this to work.
    If we swapped n with n+16, and let n be the multiple of 110 instead, n would be equal to 27830, a number which is almost certainly larger than 2184.
    Sequences of 16 appear with a period of 30030. (though not necessary)

    • @isakrikhardsson
      @isakrikhardsson 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Great explanation, how do you exclude k being an odd number without manually checking it (for instance, k=2x3+1, k=2x5+1, k=2x7+1 and so on)? Trying to grasp why the first odd k is so much higher

  • @Nolord_
    @Nolord_ 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    I see Erdos, I click.

  • @beirirangu
    @beirirangu 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    my thinking the best shot is having the ends be two highly composite numbers that are coprime AND have no primes between them...

    • @ianweckhorst3200
      @ianweckhorst3200 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I originally thought that the factorials would be a pretty safe bet, but the number right after them is guaranteed not to fit with them

    • @drslyone
      @drslyone 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      2184 and 2200 are both even, but other than 2 they are coprime. I don't think they can be completely coprime because the numbers have to reach a certain size, and doing that only with primes unique to each number is too restrictive.
      Being coprime except for 'small' primes is probably the way to go.
      Since there is a sequence that is odd apart, only one endpoint in that sequence is divisible by 2. But I would bet they are both divisible by 3 (as is 93).

  • @Matthew-bu7fg
    @Matthew-bu7fg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Side Note: the only reason I knew that the numbers 2,184 and 2,197 had 13 as factors is because of the Numberphile Video titled: "Why 1980 was a great year to be born... but 2184 will be better"
    Extra side note: that video will boom in popularity next year

  • @maze7474
    @maze7474 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Minor correction: In Hungarian, the letters ö (short) and ő (long) are different letters. In the video Paul Erdős is shown with the wrong (short) letter, since he is written with the long one (as in the video title)

  • @richardhudson4649
    @richardhudson4649 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +14

    Paul Erdos strikes again..

    • @ChuffingNorah
      @ChuffingNorah 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      He was a tireless machine which churned out mathemagical theorems and ran entirely on Coffee!

    • @tomkerruish2982
      @tomkerruish2982 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      ​@@ChuffingNorahIt wasn't just coffee...

  • @Inspirator_AG112
    @Inspirator_AG112 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    *[**04:28**]: Two 'generic answers' that I can think of that would qualify...*
    • Any pair containing 1 because every integer is divisible by 1.
    • Consecutive integers, since you can cross off 'all' zero integers between them. _(HINT: The identities of boolean 'AND' and boolean 'OR' are 'true' and 'false', respectively.)_

    • @WarmongerGandhi
      @WarmongerGandhi 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      The first one cannot be correct: if it were, then we could also cross off every number between 24 and 35, because 1 is a factor of 24.
      The second is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

  • @labibbidabibbadum
    @labibbidabibbadum 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Given there is apparently no simple algorithm that would spit out these numbers, can I ask numberphilians to nominate the most surprising things that perhaps seemed like they should be non-computable but have turned out to be relatively simple? By which I mean a non-mathematician could grasp it. (Unlike the eventual solution to Fermat's last theorem for instance).

  • @xinpingdonohoe3978
    @xinpingdonohoe3978 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    We can also do the opposite, and cross off no numbers. Since there's a prime between n and 2n, take our first prime to be n, and we'll encounter the next prime before 2n, so we won't see any multiples of n. The second prime won't have any shared factors with things below it, so we cross off nothing.

  • @GoldenSandslash15
    @GoldenSandslash15 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Fun fact: 2184 is also the year that Matt Parker wishes he was born in.

    • @jimi02468
      @jimi02468 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      LOL. I just watched that video

    • @oatmilk9545
      @oatmilk9545 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jimi02468 what's it called?

  • @holgerchristiansen4003
    @holgerchristiansen4003 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    What about the trivial solution of 1? If the two numbers are consecutive, there are no numbers in between that you need to eliminate. It is also the smalles odd solution :)
    Or has that one just been eliminated by defining k > 1 in the question?

  • @guepardiez
    @guepardiez 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    How do we know there are no other Erdos-Woods numbers between two consecutive Erdos-Woods numbers without checking an infinite number of chains of those lengths?

  • @hassanalihusseini1717
    @hassanalihusseini1717 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    I love these mathematicians that think about problems that I never could have thought about that they are problems.

  • @WK-5775
    @WK-5775 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    How can one prove that the numbers which are not in the list of Erdös-Woods numbers actually aren't Erdös-Woods numbers? Is there, for a given (candidate for a) length some maximum number where the first interval of this length necessarily must start?
    To be explicit: How does one know that 901 is not an Erdös-Woods number?

    • @tbird81
      @tbird81 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      For that matter, has it been proven that there are none less than 16?
      What about 2? Is a number never coprime to both its neighbours?

    • @WK-5775
      @WK-5775 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@tbird81 A number is _always_ coprime to both its neighbours: n and n+1 never have a common factor (apart from 1), because such a factor would have to divide the difference, which is ((n+1)-n)=1.
      It seems you interpret "coprime" just as the opposite of what it actually is by definition: two numbers a are coprime if they share no prime factors, i.e. they are "prime to each other", in a sense. (Admittedly, the letters "co" might suggest the exact opposite, namely that they have some common prime factor.)

    • @tbird81
      @tbird81 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WK-5775 Oops, yes, thank you. Realised that coprime thing after I started googling! At least it explains why 2 can't be a erdos wood number!
      I wasted twenty minutes making a program that looked from one to one million for a three length set (e.g. 203,204,205) before I realised it would be impossible!

  • @Nope-w3c
    @Nope-w3c 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Any sequence starting with 1. You said "any factors", you then assumed you had to only check prime factors, but that wasn't the rule. Any positive integer has a factor of 1, problem solved.
    of course then it'd work for any sequence, but hey, details.

    • @WK-5775
      @WK-5775 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You can check the other factors as well, if you want. (But then begin with the large ones, it's more fun.) And don't cross out a number just because it's divisible by 1. If you find something interesting, let us know.

    • @tipwilkin
      @tipwilkin 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Your law license, sir.

  • @orterves
    @orterves 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    It's always fascinating to me that integers, and primes specifically, are so fundamental and there are so many unanswered questions about them. Questions that can be described to children yet unanswered by even the greatest mathematical minds

    • @Chris-hf2sl
      @Chris-hf2sl หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes indeed. I remember showing my, at the time, 6 year old daughter, the proof that there are an infinite number of primes. The question is fundamental to number theory, yet the proof (by contradiction) is so simple that even a 6 year old can comprehend it. In contrast, the proof that 1+1=2 is so complicated that it needs 240 pages of advanced maths. There is no other subject quite like maths.

  • @rogerkearns8094
    @rogerkearns8094 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    06:34 The number 2197 is 13 cubed, of course.

  • @JoeKoenen
    @JoeKoenen 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    "Erdos" is Hungarian for "Forrest" so in English they are "Woods - Woods" numbers! 😂🤣😂😅

  • @bragesb
    @bragesb 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I am very happy to have solved this before I watched the answer! Almost wish the video went into how to approach the problem a little, but still, very neat puzzle, I enjoyed it!

  • @qatestbrian1
    @qatestbrian1 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Brady must be a brilliant mathematician by now.

  • @siarya_math
    @siarya_math 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Yay! Another numberphile video with James Grime!

  • @bertblankenstein3738
    @bertblankenstein3738 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The word length... We are talking about discrete items, not the distance between them. So I think "sequence size" might be better than "length". 2184 up to and including 2200 is 17 numbers, not 16.

  • @AexisRai
    @AexisRai 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    4:30 Thoughts:
    Some notation:
    Seq(a,b) = [a]{a+1, ..., b-1}[b]
    a and b in N, a < b
    S = {a+1, ..., b-1}.
    For what nontrivial Seq(a,b) does every element of S share a factor with a or b?
    (If b-a = 1, S = {}, which trivially passes.)
    ........
    Yes, the first intuition is that primes in S are bad because they won't share factors with a or b.[1] But there's also the idea that a and b shouldn't be prime either, because then they won't share factors with elements of S.
    [1] (Technically if a < p < b with p prime and let b = pk, then you could cancel p - but then because "there is always a prime between n and 2n", there would be a different prime q between b and p, which b would not be a multiple of.)
    Really it seems like what you want is for a and b to have _a lot_ of prime factors, with the intuition that the more primes you have, the more of S you can "cancel out".
    But then there's the problem that a and a+1 won't share any common prime factors, and b and b-1 won't share any common prime factors. (You can verify this.)
    So for a+1 to get canceled, it must be by a factor that b contributes, and for b-1 to get canceled, it must be by a factor that a contributes.
    I'll stop there and see what they say next.
    (edit: a word)

  • @jugodevaca7540
    @jugodevaca7540 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If a sequence of 22 terms can be canceled, then it also contains several sequences of 16-length. Any of these erdos-woods numbers would contain sequences for every smaller erdos-woods number. I don’t know that that’s useful, but it’s neat.

  • @Pystro
    @Pystro 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    For someone who wants *a hint that's actually useful:* (This is actually a nice puzzle, if you have an hour or 3 to mull over it.)
    Think about the numbers "1 in" and "2 in" from the "bookend numbers". On each side, one of them is very easy to cross off (because it's even), while the other one is _very much not_ easy. (That is, unless both bookend numbers are odd, but why would you do that?)
    Spoiler :
    You'll quickly realize that making one bookend odd and one even (call them O an d E) seems discouragingly persistent on not working out.

  • @aikumaDK
    @aikumaDK 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Where does Erdős factor into these numbers?
    I'm guessing Woods used something Erdős had published and built upon it, but i'm curious what that foundation was about.

  • @BryndanMeyerholtTheRealDeal
    @BryndanMeyerholtTheRealDeal 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I wonder how many levels of factorials deep we can go?

  • @debblez
    @debblez 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    conjecture: 2184 is the largest number to be the subject of multiple numberphile videos for different reasons.

    • @PhilBagels
      @PhilBagels 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think there were two videos about Graham's number. One about how it is calculated, and the other about why it was needed.

    •  หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@PhilBagelsYes. But one can't write it out in whole in the usual base 10 though.

  • @NF30
    @NF30 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    I love how you put an en dash in the title between the names! Thank you for doing it correctly

    • @oatmilk9545
      @oatmilk9545 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      typogranazi detected

    • @NF30
      @NF30 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@oatmilk9545 Oat milk drinker detected

    • @oatmilk9545
      @oatmilk9545 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@NF30 ah yeah

    • @interbeamproductions
      @interbeamproductions 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@NF30you're milkist

    • @NF30
      @NF30 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@interbeamproductions I drink oat milk too

  • @Inspirator_AG112
    @Inspirator_AG112 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    *@[**1:52**]:* Well, integer neighbors would technically qualify if we exploited the identity of an 'AND'...

  • @altejoh
    @altejoh 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    My first thought is, start at 2x3 (smallest primes), which gives 6. The next number is 7, so immediately you know 7 *has* to be in one of the ends. And then 5 is smaller, so if there is a part divisible by 7 some part inside will be divisible by 5... building up like this seems like it will require bigger and bigger numbers just to hold enough prime factors to cover everything that will be in the middle!

  • @qnicks23434
    @qnicks23434 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It feels like this has something to do with cryptography

  • @LeviATallaksen
    @LeviATallaksen 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Nice to get some hints, but I wish at least one of them was about the interval length. To me, the most natural approach is to fix that length and figure out how the smaller prime factors could be distributed between the endpoints. If we discover that length 16 works with 2, 3, 7, 13 dividing one endpoint and 2, 5, 11 dividing the other, we're almost done. We just need to find the linear combination of 2*3*7*13=546 and 2*5*11=110 giving us 16. With that approach, the size isn't relevant until the last step.

  • @kalla103
    @kalla103 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    i love numbers so much.
    giggling and kicking with my feet when Dr. Grime said "..and the next one is 22, starting with 3521210"

  • @Mia-Ja
    @Mia-Ja 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +184

    James Grime is everyone's favorite ❤.

    • @pagjimaagjinen9733
      @pagjimaagjinen9733 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      What about the james grime haters association

    • @derendohoda3891
      @derendohoda3891 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@pagjimaagjinen9733 tsundere

    • @maestroeragon
      @maestroeragon 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      How long have we known him for? I loved this channel in my late teens and I believe he was there, I'm almost 30 now!
      I just checked their playlist, it's 85 James appearances and the first one was 12 years ago... it's so nice to be entertained and educated by the same person for so long!

    • @adityadavda1081
      @adityadavda1081 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      True that

    • @fifiwoof1969
      @fifiwoof1969 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@pagjimaagjinen9733Or the ❤❤❤❤❤Holly Krieger ❤❤❤❤❤ lovers association.
      CONTROVERSIAL can of worms just got opened here. I've got my popcorn 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿 - just need some salted 🧂 butter now. 🤤

  • @honeybee9455
    @honeybee9455 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I feel like they would lie furthest away from squares and likely factorials
    Edit: on second thought, if you wanted to find a sequence of length n you could always find one at n factorial as a maximum
    Edit 2: nevermind it wouldnt work because 1 isnt a factor.

  • @pbenikovszky1
    @pbenikovszky1 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    fun fact, Erdő (without the s) in Hungarian means Woods :D

  • @rickseiden1
    @rickseiden1 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    If it's not too big, and it's not too small, then it must be about the size of a cannonball.

    • @POLARTTYRTM
      @POLARTTYRTM 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I have one the size of my finger

  • @Soubhik12345.
    @Soubhik12345. 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    James Grime is everyone's favorite ❤

  • @BenAlternate-zf9nr
    @BenAlternate-zf9nr 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Any sequence of length one (two endpoints only) or zero would also work.

  • @buzzzysin
    @buzzzysin 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'd love a video with just the "Thinking Time" music on loop

  • @ErikLeppen
    @ErikLeppen 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    How would one prove that a number is not Erdős-Woods?

  • @BritishBeachcomber
    @BritishBeachcomber 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Give me a TARDIS and I will go back in time for an all night chat with Paul Erdős. Total genius.

  • @GrandRezero
    @GrandRezero 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I was certain 5040 would be involved as a member of the highly composite numbers.

  • @morismateljan6458
    @morismateljan6458 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I'm curious could there be a prime number on one end, because on the other end is a highly powerful composite number that will obliterate everything in between.

    • @margue27
      @margue27 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      No, because the number next to one of the ends is not divisible by any of the factors of that end, so it must be divisible by a factor of the other end. So both ends contribute factors and none of them can be prime.

    • @numberphile
      @numberphile  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I wondered that.

    • @BenAlternate-zf9nr
      @BenAlternate-zf9nr 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@margue27this argument doesn't rule out the case where the first bookend is a prime and the last intermediate is a multiple of that prime.

    • @margue27
      @margue27 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@BenAlternate-zf9nr Ah, yes, I overlooked that. So "highly powerful composite number that will obliterate everything in between" still would not work, but this is not the same as my (wrong!) conclusion "none of them could be prime". Correct?

    • @BenAlternate-zf9nr
      @BenAlternate-zf9nr 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@margue27 yeah. No one endpoint can be responsible for all the eliminations. It might be the case that prime endpoints are indeed impossible, but this argument doesn't prove it.

  • @jellomochas
    @jellomochas 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    1 is a (trivial) Erdos-Woods number.

  • @prdoyle
    @prdoyle 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Quite the twist ending. I don't want to give it away, but that k value was pretty amazing.

  • @lucahermann3040
    @lucahermann3040 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Can we talk about how they're called *"Woods-Woods* Numbers"?
    Because *Erdő* is just Hungarian for forest/woods.
    That's a funny coincidence.

  • @daftbence
    @daftbence 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I used to live in the dorm named after Erdős Pál, it's cool to learn about a bit of his work!

  • @billselby149
    @billselby149 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    My guess was 2310 so I was excited to see how close I was

  • @GridGuyDoesPuzzles
    @GridGuyDoesPuzzles 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    If there are infinitely many Erdős-Woods numbers... that means that there must be some (infinitely many, in fact) that are larger than, say, TREE(3). But there can't be an Erdős-Woods number that actually has the value of infinity, can there? By definition, each sequence has to have a stated start point and end point, right?

  • @f1urps
    @f1urps 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The Grime reciting numbers in a demonically distorted sped-up voice at 5:15 will haunt me every time I see brown paper now

  • @MinecraftMasterNo1
    @MinecraftMasterNo1 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The Woods-Woods numbers

  • @red.aries1444
    @red.aries1444 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    11 years ago you made a video about prime number spirals, where prime numbers show patterns through gaps if you arrange them in a certain way.
    As this Erdös-Woods Numbers are connected to prime numbers, will they make similar patterns?

  • @codacoder
    @codacoder 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Could you please do a video about Collatz Fractals? (visualizing the extension of the Collatz problem into the complex domain)

  • @jyrinx
    @jyrinx 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Do we know definitively what numbers are _not_ Erdős-Woods numbers?

  • @kenankaravoussanos7253
    @kenankaravoussanos7253 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What are the "certain conjectures?"

  • @bluekeybo
    @bluekeybo 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Wasn't k=2 in the last example? But the result said that k=3 is what breaks it with finitely many examples.

  • @jonathanjacobson7012
    @jonathanjacobson7012 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'd love to learn more about how those sequences were discovered. Is it purely computational?

  • @skylark.kraken
    @skylark.kraken 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I wrote a program during the thinking time and it would have been solved a lot quicker if I didn't set the maximum length so long, casually checking every length 5-100 for every number up to 2184

  • @backwashjoe7864
    @backwashjoe7864 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I don't know, saying that the sequence from 2184 to 2200 has a length = 16 when there are 17 members just seems wrong. And, there are 15 numbers between the two endpoints. Use 15 as its identifier.

  • @bosnbruce5837
    @bosnbruce5837 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    _So many questions come to my head, doctor Grime_
    --
    9:44

  • @hotdogskid
    @hotdogskid 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Im glad this started with a question and didnt give the answer away, the answer is more surprising after ive half convinced myself its not possible haha

  • @vastariner
    @vastariner 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Count von Count: I'm going to make a sequence until I get bored.
    * three months later*
    Eighteen million six hundred and seventy-three thousand two hundred and eighty six! Ah ha ha!

  • @efml
    @efml หลายเดือนก่อน

    Rules that came to my mind are
    No prime numbers
    First and last numbers should be even to easily remove even numbers
    Since no two consecutive numbers have the same factors, first number should have the same factor as the second to the last number. Same goes with second number and last numbers
    First and last numbers should be divisible by odd numbers
    Last number minus second number equals a factor of both numbers (same goes with 1st and 2nd to last)
    N-2 should be divisible to the factors aforementioned

  • @frankharr9466
    @frankharr9466 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Huh. That's interesting.

  • @rajazoe..2405
    @rajazoe..2405 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    (04/08)(03/07)(02/08)(01/09)?=1234😊😊😊 is the best number and

  • @verdatum
    @verdatum 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I am interested in that split-flap display...I bet you had to turn it off while recording.

  • @erickehr4475
    @erickehr4475 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Is that sequence complete or is it just the ones which have been found? By which I mean has it been proved that however high you look you won’t find a sequence with length eg 20 or 82 or indeed any number in one of the gaps?

    • @Mmmm1ch43l
      @Mmmm1ch43l 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      yeah, same question

    • @Ruminations09
      @Ruminations09 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I don't know about any numbers higher than 16, but when I was working out the problem myself, I was able to rigorously prove that it was IMPOSSIBLE for any number lower than 16 to work.
      I won't bore you with my proofs for *ALL* numbers below 16, but I'll give you basic idea of how it can be proven by showing that a length of 5 is impossible:
      If you have a length of 5 that stretches from some number "x" to some other number "y", then your sequence is:
      x, x+1, x+2, x+3, x+4, y
      x and x+1 cannot share any factors other than 1, because in order for two numbers to share a factor, they must be separated by a multiple of that factor and x+1 is only 1 larger than x.
      For the same reason, x+4 and y also cannot share any factors.
      This means that in order of the sequence to work, x+1 must share a factor with y, and x+4 must share a factor with x.
      However, x and x+4 are 4 apart from each other, and x+1 and y are also 4 apart from each other. This means that the only possible common factors for them to have is 2.
      We are now in a position where in order for a length of 5 to be possible, BOTH x and y need to be divisible by 2, which is not possible if their difference is an odd number.
      Therefore, no sequence of 5 is possible.

  • @mjustjeanette7026
    @mjustjeanette7026 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Pushing at the limits to break 2 prime encryption public/private key ... don't mind me, I'm just a little cynical.

  • @moskthinks9801
    @moskthinks9801 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nah, i have infinitely many (vacuously) ones:
    (n) (n+1)

  • @trueberryless
    @trueberryless 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    4:30 It's not too big, not too small... Me thinking of something between 50 and 100, answer: lower 1000s 😂😂😂

  • @TedToal_TedToal
    @TedToal_TedToal 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was confused because I thought you were listing all the sequences that occur, in order, and then suddenly when he asked about more sequences of length 16, you listed a whole bunch more that were smaller than the ones you had just listed.

  • @woodchuk1
    @woodchuk1 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So if I understand correctly, since the smallest Erdös-Woods number looks to be 16, does that mean there are no consecutive positive integer sequences of length 15 or less, starting at ANY point, where every number in the middle shares a common factor with one of the endpoints? How could you ever prove that no number less than 16 would work?

    • @xinpingdonohoe3978
      @xinpingdonohoe3978 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That would be correct.
      But then, how would you be able to prove there are infinitely many of these numbers? I don't know, but I think they did. So they will have had some snazzy techniques. Maybe they used contradiction, by assuming 16 wasn't the smallest and showing that that fails.

  • @Qermaq
    @Qermaq 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You could have a sequence of 1 where there are no intervening numbers at all. :D

  • @alexandersanchez9138
    @alexandersanchez9138 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Underrated video; this is now one of my favorites.

  • @Fanny-Fanny
    @Fanny-Fanny 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    An infinite number of solutions: every set of numbers starting with 1 and ending in a positive integer greater than 1. What do I win?

  • @ChrisWalshZX
    @ChrisWalshZX 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The first number above the lower end has to have a common factor with the upper end and the second to last number has to have a common factor with the lower end. This means that a sequence with just one number between them is impossible to have a solution.

  • @jadebrownofficial
    @jadebrownofficial 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Another infinite sequence 🤣😵

  • @YourAashique
    @YourAashique 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Awesome. 30th June 2024.

  • @hkayakh
    @hkayakh 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Well, there’s no specific amount of numbers you need between the endpoints, so just do 1 to 2 and boom you’re done

  • @soberhippie
    @soberhippie 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'd say, just start with 1, then any sequence will be divisible by at least one of the boundaries

  • @yoram_snir
    @yoram_snir 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    And probably, when a solution will be found, a new type of AI or Machine Learning algorithm could be developed 🤯

    • @Mmmm1ch43l
      @Mmmm1ch43l 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      and I don't see how this could help with machine learning

  • @rowanaboat4523
    @rowanaboat4523 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Surely if you start with the number 1 you can make the sequence as big as you like, because every number is divisible by 1. Right?

    • @paulclapham5791
      @paulclapham5791 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      But you don't have to start at 1 to use that logic. Remember that "divisible by the starting number" wasn't a requirement. So you could start with any number at all.
      But you'll notice that he keeps talking about "divisible by a prime". 1 is not a prime.