The Divine Plan for Sex, Love, and Marriage (with Christopher West)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- The biblical message can be summed up in five words: "God wants to marry us." To understand this point, we have to look deeply into scripture as to what it teaches about sex, love, and marriage. What we find is beautiful and revealing of God's heart for us. In this interview, I talk with Christopher West about his book Our Bodies Tell God's Story.
READ: Our Bodies Tell God's Story (amzn.to/3P8OfoD)
READ: Chasing Love, by Sean McDowell (amzn.to/3KPM4TD)
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This dude is on some next level stuff. Thanks for treating us with this gem of a video.
You bet. Please consider sharing. To me, his content is powerful and needed in the church!
When you say "next level" you really mean it. This video went so deep to a layer I didn't even know existed. My Mind is blown thinking about what we all just learned here today. I understood marriage as a symbol of Christ and His bride and the Covenant. But this went so deep and explained layer after layer that I am changed and I see my marriage and the gospel and the Biblical story in an entire now light. It's hard to explain but boy oh boy next level is right.
God bless you
This truly is profound. I always love the logos reference from John 1. Such a truly refreshing truth about the fabric of reality and our savior. This conversation is going to resonate within me for a while until I can grasp it! Thanks guys!
Much deeper and spiritual than I expected. Really good and beautiful stuff!!
Until you realize a man's greatest nirvana experience is being penetrated. Throws a bit of a wrench in the works, no?
God bless you two guys for your excellent work, Saint John Paul II "Love and responsibility" is a must read for every Christian, especially in this day and age.
There really are better books for real christians than catholic pope's book
This was a deeply profound talk. I've long thought sexual intimacy was not just for our enjoyment and self-serving. My mind has been warped in a sinful way with struggles with pornography over years, and this interview was eye opening. Our religion is not a self-service buffet or a starvation theology, but the act of sex is sacred and points to God. As a single man, I've struggled to see it as that, and this interview did a great job of showing that. Thanks for sharing, Sean!
There is no such thing as SIN only moral and immoral actions.
The percieved whims of anyone's imaginary friend are irrelevant in any discussion of morality.
@@trumpbellend6717 Who determines morals and if the world is really survival of fittest why do we even have morals? Is it the cultures, because other cultures may disagree?
There are too many unexplainable things in my life for me to reject the existence of God. You may disagree, and that is your choice. Just like it's disrespectful if I were to hold judgement over your head (which I admit some Christians do) or tell you what to believe, it's just as disrespectful to call Christians' God, "Sky Daddy" or imaginary friend. Let me know if you want to have a serious discussion or if you just want to proselytize people into becoming atheists as you are on a Christian apologist's TH-cam channel. 🙂
@trump bellend Does it bring you some sort of sick and perverted joy to just come into the comments Christian men and women who are expressing joy and happiness with one another and just try to tear that down? Only a twisted mind would come in and respond to a person who is being vulnerable and expressing their struggles and how they are overcoming them, and just make a feeble attempt to dismiss them in such a way.
That is really just all you intended with that comment, and it's actually pretty sick when you realize the intentions of your heart. You didn't come here to listen to a video and try to understand another person's point of view. You came to try to troll Christians and its as obvious as the sun in the sky on a clear day that you are deeply emotionally disturbed in some way. Maybe you suffered a terrible childhood where your parents did not give you the love you deserved, or maybe you experienced a divorce - either in your own life or your parents (or had a bad breakup), or maybe you are feeling unfulfilled in your career or life in some way, or maybe you are very lonely and don't have many deep relationships in your family or friendships (or maybe some combination of many of those). But in some way you are incredibly empty because only someone who's heart is so hardened would just hop into a conversation of someone expressing vulnerability and overcoming their past harmful desires, and just cut them down in such a way. Its truly very sad and even though most people would just label you a jerk and move on, I feel a lot of pitty and sadness for you.
You are desperately searching for a way to fill that hole in your heart, but you're going about it in a terrible way. You have the false belief that tearing someone down in some way will somehow raise you up. But that is a very immature way of going about things. You cannot heal your own emptiness by trying to empty other people. The saddest part is that you will remain empty and unfulled. Yet Christians are so full of the joy and peace of the Holy Spirit that we remain unaffected by your feeble attempts to empty us along with you. We have the joy of knowing the Lord and having an intimate relationship with our Creator and are so fulfilled that your petty little remarks leave us unaffected.
*****Just know that when you are finally so tired of feeling empty inside that you can repent of your sins and turn to Christ. When you place your trust in Him He will fill you with the Holy Spirit and you will finally know what true, unadulterated, eternal love feels like.
@@trumpbellend6717 Also, your comment is illogical. Where do you get your concept of "moral and immoral" from? If you don't believe in God, then we are all just an accident of the universe - a collection of stardust filled with electrical pulses that give the illusion of consciousness, then the concept of morality doesn't make sense. ESPECIALLY if you beleive in Darwinian evolution! Evolution is based on the idea of survival of the fittest. In fact it is utterly dependant on it. And so your "morality" would be based off of what is best for the survival of the species - that the strongest should survive. And so killing the weakest, if it benefits the group and the survival of the species, is a perfectly reasonable and "moral" thing to do. The acts of the Germans in WWII were actually "moral" according to your logic because they believed they were doing the best for the survival of the strongest group.
Don't you see that by using terms such as "moral and immoral" you are borrowing from a Christian worldview. But it is completely illogical if your worldview is true.
Wouuuuuuuuu. I love this show from the beginning to the end.
Thanks guys( West and Sean).Great job.
As a college student, so much to unpack. I don’t even know where to start
Fast Food and starvation don't work. But the banquet does. I pray for everyone here to "...open your body to the indwelling of the spirit, so what you do with your body will glorify God." Im so tired, so spent with singleness after a hard divorce but I know God wants to fill me to overflowing so I can love how He intended. This was so needed
Sean, buddy! Jp2 is praying for you! As Herbrews says, "A cloud of witnesses surrounds...and encourages us.."
This is what will make us men rethink what it means to be a man. Praise be The Lord!
So good. God is so good…..exactly what I asked for greater understanding about. Thank you for having this discussion!! 🙌🏽🙏
The last word I would use to discribe the god of biblical naratives is "Good".
You see in reality "Good" is a word used to describe a point on a reference standard or scale conceptualised by man that is based upon our shared values like human wellbeing, empathy and equality. Whilst "God" is also a man made concept, the percieved whims of this "God" do not reflect these shared values and thus are irrelevant in any discussion of morality.
@@trumpbellend6717 maybe so
@trump bellend The God that does exist & is not made.. is Good. Everything else is your opinion, a faulty opinion. The word good & the current definition of it, is also man made.. and there is no doubt your perception is incorrect as all humans have a different opinion of what 'good' is. Humans left to their own devices will destroy themselves & all humanity in no time. They do nothing good for themselves..
WOW....I have no words to examine how this made me feel. My MIND IS BLOWN! I have never heard these truths explained in such an incredibly deep and profound way before. This video has changed my life and how I understand my marriage and Christ and the gospel and the entire Biblical story. And I have a degree in Theology! Just the way he takes this topic and really unpacks it right to the very heart and the way he explains this is just...incredible.
I am so blessed by this video and teaching and it has just opened my heart and mind to an entire new way of thinking about my husband and I together and our Lord and Savior.
God bless you
That's amazing! And you learned so much despite having a degree in theology!!
Keep digging into the fullness of the Catholic Church. The Theology of the Body is a teaching from St. John Paul II. All the treasures and wisdom of the Catholic Church is too much to miss out on. Let alone the Eucharist.
@djf6005 unfortunately, there is too much heresy in the Catholic traditions, that I cannot call myself a Catholic. I consider myself a Baptist and attend a Baptist church that is very Biblically sound. Of course, ALL denominations have their own problems, we are only human, and no human establishment will ever be perfect. But I am a Christian not a Catholic (although Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are Catholic). I went to Catholic school and left the Catholic church as a teenager after I had too many questions about practices that I noticed did not line up with biblical teachings. When God grabbed me and said He wouldn't let me go, I came back and dedicated my life to Christ, but not in the Catholic church, but in a Christian church. I will never be a Catholic, but will always be a Christian
@gabriellameattray9778 even people with doctorate degrees continue to learn. When you take a degree in Theology (or any subject) you tend to specialize in certain areas as it is impossible to become an expert in every area of a subject matter. This is not a topic I have studied deeply, so I did learn a lot and am glad for it
This is another reason that Christianity has such a robust explanatory scope for existence
Definitely!
Amen!
Loved this, I had to pause several times in order to finish chewing and swallowing before taking another "byte" of freedom & truth in this video! Thank you.
The splice down the middle of the two cameras lines up well here - you guys could've been in the same room! Haha, great content as always!
Haha, true!
I agree, this is game changing. Wow. Definitely going to watch this again and will share with others.
Thanks Melissa. It’s one of my favs!
While many good points are made, at the same time, much of what was said was based on a specific slant on certain scriptures influenced by the Pope (hardly a good theologian), and stereotypes, rather than Scripture exclusively. These points are good, however, the New Testament contains many commands to put off the "flesh", so it seems obvious to take all of these things into consideration with balance. The pendulum can swing too far pretty quickly. When we speak with authority, it does matter where that authority comes from, which should be Scripture. I think Christopher's points are beautiful in the larger perspective, but my experience and most of those I know have seen the less beautiful results of sin in the area of sexuality, which our modern culture obviously has helped to proliferate. Oh and by the way, if following any moral commands makes you a legalist, then Jesus and Paul were legalists, UMM that's part of any 'relationship' guys...
very well said 🎯
@originalmix2546 I am not sure, whether you have sufficiently understood what Christopher is saying in his commentaries on the Theology of the Body. Can you even point out in one place, that he is unscriptural? And what does the Scriptures mean, when it says, to put off the flesh? Doesn't it mean to put off sin? Could you give one instance, where Pope John Paul and Christopher are encouraging sin or asking us to forsake moral commands? And finally, do you believe sexual union between the spouses is a sin?
By calling Jesus and Paul as legalists, i am sorry to say, but it is you, who are giving a different and false slant to the Holy Scriptures.
Great dialog but a lot of eisegesis with the scriptures🤦🏽♂️
Thank you for this! God bless you Sean and Christopher! To God be all the glory!
THIS SHOULD BE TAUGHT IN US SCHOOLS to high school teenagers students.
This should be implemented in the US high school public schools curriculum
If anyone is interested in learning more about Theology of the Body, the TOB Institute is hosting a free virtual conference this coming weekend called Revealed. Check it out!
What is sooo hard I think is that even those who understand the theology and the wonders of God's plan for sex have so many hardships in their marriage when it comes to sex.
So true
We have ignored our jewish roots. The teaching about the Mashpia (Male) as the initiator and giver (God)......and the female (Maccaba) as the receiver and helper (the Church). I hope Sean Will interview rabbi Manis Friedman on Holy Marriage.
Lots of "good" mixed with "mysticism" about Mary. Catholics teach Mary as a co- redemptrix. "She" is NOT the image of the church. The redeemed "saints" of Christ are. "Yikes"!
Was not Mary a disciple of Christ? Doesn't Sacred Scripture say she is "Hail, Full of Grace and "All Generations Shall Call Me Blessed"? You really need to look at your bible and stop spreading lies about Mary and what the Church actually teaches about her my friend.
So sad that there hasn’t been a single comment here for a year.
Sean, the last thing I want to be called is ‘A ROCK STAR’ I would feel insulted because the words rock star is to me, the epitome of EVIL!!! Other than that, I truly enjoy your videos and your ministry. As for this particular video, I’m still scraping my jaw up from the floor . . . I’m NOT necessarily opposed to it, but I do want to view it again to test the spirit ect and then to study the scriptures your guest used to finally and prayerfully come to a decision on it. It is so deep and I immediately was able to agree with some of it but as yet, I’m fearful of any possible blasphemy involved??? I would very much like to know what your Dad thinks of it actually. MAY GOD BLESS YOU SEAN🙏🏻🥰🙏🏻
"The ultimate purpose and meaning of womanhood is to be an opening to the divine. The ultimate purpose of the male body is to enter the temple. This is the priestly meaning of the holy of holies. The holy of holies is a symbol of woman's body." 20:33
Is it just me or does that sound sort of like a fertility rite?
That almost sounds like New Age.
@@reillys816 Well since you can find similarly evocative, sex sacralizing language in just about everything from modern day druids at Stonehenge to the ancient religions of mesopotamia, I'd say yeah, I agree that "new age" is certainly one of a number of descriptive tags that symbolism like this, used in this manner, could potentially be classified under.
Try listening to rabbi Manis Friedman on the Holy Marriage. And the Holy Spiritual intimacy that can not be found elsewhere in this earthly life.
This makes no sense considering gay sex is more pleasurable to both men involved than what happens between a man and a woman. God evidently can't design bodies correctly lol.
This struck me profoundly!!!
Please increase overall audio output by 5db to 10db to more closely match other TH-cam content.
Hey Sean! I really love this topic and I think it's an extremely important one to cover. I wanted to comment though that for me personally I don't like to use the term "marry" or use the"bride and groom" analogy when referring to our relationship with God or Christ. I totally understand why some people use them, it is biblically based, so I have no problem with their use inherently. However, I would say that analogies like that are meant to clarify or make a specific comparison that would be most useful to the original audience of the scriptures. Since we as a culture have a lot of new and very strong associations with marriage that are disanalogous to our relationship with God, I prefer to use the phrase "God wants to unite with us". It helps to bring up why the comparison with marriage is there and talk about the disanalogies too. The word "marry" to me feels very similar to using the terms "erect" and "ejaculate", they don't technically have to be about sex but it immediately comes to mind when you say the words. Anyways, just wanted to give you my perspective so you can avoid miscommunication with people who feel the same way I do.
Thanks! :)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Oh how sad...I can't imagine a past that might render you to feel as though those terms would be similar or analogous in any way. That the word 'marry' would basically denote those sex terms is such a departure from the truth. Praying that Jesus will heal that!!
Hinduism says that the body reveals ultimate meaning. Alan Watts (occult teacher/33rd degree Freemason) says it too.
Feel good tripe. The snake oil sold to the Ethiopian eunuch reveals the cold truth many will fall through the cracks in God's plans. For these there are only rewards in death. I despair for those who are told that all they have to live for is the moment they draw their last breath.
can you please explain what do you mean exactly?
I’d love you to bring him back and talk more about this! Where do you disagree? I’m curious, Sean.
I’m going to bring him on next fall with a Protestant scholar and talk through differences. Thanks!
Wonderful discussion, thank you!
“And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.””
Mark 7:20-23 ESV. Christopher West seems to believe that when we sin, what we really want is God, but scripture seems to disagree with him. I agree that sex and marriage is symbolic to Christ and the church, but if we don’t apply biblical teachings of the condition of the human heart, then we lessen the need for the true gospel. Our sin is what will send us to hell, but out of perfect love, Jesus died and raised from the grave so that through faith, we can be saved by that sacrifice and be restored.
Amen, Catholicism is in general theologically false.
It took me leaving the Catholic Church to know and meet Jesus. Spent my whole upbringing in the church and never heard the gospel or that I could KNOW Jesus. I heard messages similar to this as an adolescent - not as profound and not as articulate, perhaps, but always with so much emphasis on Mother Mary. There are some great messages here but I am conflicted because of the skewed teachings of the Catholic Church forcing men and women to be celibate in order to be "sisters" and "priests" - not at all biblical and did much damage having all these sex starved men having access to young boys/men for many decades.
I see what you see but I'm pretty sure Jesus said that there are those who make themselves "eunuchs" for the kingdom. And Paul was celibate. And there's no marriage in heaven. Celibates consecrated to God is a sign of what's to come.
This is weird.. am i the only one that sees it?.. so Jesus "married" his mom on the cross?.. Video 26:30.. kind weird if I have to say it myself.. this guys is stretching it too far..
That got me confused too.
We are the bride of Christ. That would also include Mary. She needs a Savior as well. It's not in the sense that we know relationships now in our human thinking. It's the relationship of being reconciled to God through our Lord and Savior. We think too much in our own thinking, in the flesh. All of this here is just a picture of a much higher relationship between us and God. It goes beyond our titles. Mary is no longer "mother". Christ is groom, she is bride. Like everyone else. Mother and son are stripped away because it's a heavenly relationship, not an earthly one.
It seems to me he's stretching his teaching on this topic and applying it to Mary in a way the text itself doesn't support.
On the order of nature, Mary is Jesus' mother, but on the level of the spiritual life, the Christian life has nuptial union with Christ as the goal. Mary has fulfilled that goal in the deepest way.
BIBLE: Marriage is a contract involving the transfer of chattel property (females) from original owner (father) to subsequent owner (husband).
LOL
Thank you for this! ❤
Thanks! Beautiful.
From Becket to Sean to Christopher - Just "WoW" !!! "Pornographie is a hellish mockery of a heavenly reality!" Thank You =)
Please stop gulping your beverage near the microphone. Please. Pretty pretty please. Thank you.
Love it!
Daaaang! Mind blown!!!
Tell me you are Catholic with out telling me you are Catholic: Jesus call Mary woman and she became the new eve and at the foot of the cross she became the mother of all living beings.
If that statement was true it would be very clear in the gospels and for sure Paul and Luke would of mention it,
That's like saying "if the Trinity is that essential, Paul would have written about it explicitly"
@@carlosojeda7257 ok , JESUS said who is mother and who is my brothers and my sisters? My mother And brothers and my sisters are all who listen and obey my FATHER ! Don't you think JESUS had a big chance to tell is to worship HIS mother if she was a goddess like the Catholic church presents her?
@@albertonuno1790 1- Yes. It is recorded that Christ said that. Plus it's also recorded in the gospels that Jesus said to the woman saying "blessed the womb that carries you"that" more blessed are those who listen to words word and keep it.
- Mary listen to the word of God through the angel and Kept it literally up to Jesus public life. Mary took care of God's Word made flesh.
So yeah, Mary is blessed not only cause she was chosen but because she kept God's word.
I don't see how this is a "bad" thing about Mary.
2- Please show me where Mary is ever worship or call a goddess in the Catholic Church?
Make a claim and defend it.
For that please define worship biblically (hint: requires sacrifice btw which is never offered to Mary and it'd be blasphemy to do so )
21:00 um this is starting to sound really weird...
Hello Sean I am very blessed by your ministry. Would you help me recall of your interview with an author who wrote about Exodus and prophecies. What was his name and his book again? Thanks
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. I don’t remember such an interview. Can you email me more details through my website and I’ll try to help?
Sexual LONGING?🧐
Valuable information for us young adults and for our youth.
Wish this was taught, preached more about.
easy to say harder to do as always
👏👏👏👏
Just whoa!
All of this Mariology is a very slippery slope built on shaky ground.
Oh how so? What about Mary did they say that is in your view a 'slippery slope built on shaky ground'? Is the theology of Mariology not something you really subscribe to? Or was it something that they said concerning her that did not align with your belief? Just curious. Thanks!
@@rnbham39 Yes, I don’t ascribe to the theology. It’s not that I disagree with what Christopher was saying about longing revealing God, but the way he gets there is such a weak Biblical case.
Mary is the mother of Jesus and therefore the mother of God. If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with Sacred Scripture and 2000 years of church teaching.
Pseudo-Dionysius
Sean is a pagan.
@@dansaber4427 and you are a genius.😂
@@maryloulongenbaugh7069 but only in a Wylie Coyote Super Genius way
@@dansaber4427 how? Genuinely curious.
@@AB-ew6tz because Sean is really about adapting his qualities for survival. Which is what's common to man. There's nothing uniquely Christian about him.
Sean! You are so tan! Have you been surfing?😄
Haha, it might be my lighting ;)
Complete paranoia. Macdowell continues obsession with sex poor man.
So I have to listen to 2 white straight married men lecture me on sexuality and being single? How does that comfort a gay man who sees these 2 benefiting from marriage? 😡
I know it's not the same thing but there are many heterosexuals who won't ever experience marriage either. Or who have horrific past experience with it to the point that they struggle to reconcile sexuality to theology. Just being straight really is not the once off blessing you may think it is.
One thing to note though, is our own submission to God in our own situation. Frustration can be tough, yeah. But it is not about being lectured, nor about the other people - but about knowing Him and seeking a relationship with God through Jesus. When that relationship comes, things hits different. The change of our hearts and the true relationship we have with God makes the life we live for Him sweet - strengthened continually by the Holy Spirit to be more like Christ. Like Christ, in character and obedience
"Where your treasure is, there your heart is also". When I treasured my lust more than God, I was lost. But when I returned and obeyed God in humility, He started working in me. Took away the burden of the sinful desires, and allowed me the power to truly treasure Him more than my coveted bondage - to "seek first His Kingdom". All I want to say is, Jess meant it when he said " Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
They’re not just giving their opinion. They’re giving the biblical definition of what God’s gift of sex and marriage is. The fact that they’re straight, married, men, and white has nothing to do with it.
Sure, they’re benefiting from marriage but if you’re looking to that to be comforted in life then you missed the whole point of the interview.
@@shanetlogan God'' didn't write the bible, some ancient guys did.
@@frankwhelan1715 You’re right. Some ancient guys wrote the Bible. Good job. I suspect where we differ is I believe that they wrote it through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Sean - with All that's happening in Ukraine and the World I am extremely disappointed on your shows!!
Why don't you have guests Relevant to the Current Worlds turmoils??