Here's info on all our amazing guests! (In alphabetical order) GoodTofuFriday (He preserved the arcade games "Rockman EXE: Battle Chip Stadium" & "Rockman EXE: Medal Operation" & "Rockmanman EXE: Medal Network") twitter.com/goodtofufriday KNIJohn (Reviewer extraordinaire!) www.youtube.com/@knijohn3581 Mega Man Battle Network: Chrono X (Represented by Giver336 -- Director of this amazing fangame!) www.mmbnchronox.com/ discord.com/invite/mmbncx N1GP (Represented by SoulXCross -- Commentator for BN6 PVP tournaments) n1gp.net/ twitter.com/SoulXCross The Rockman EXE Zone (Represented by MegaRockEXE -- Graphic designer for TREZ games) twitter.com/megarock_exe www.therockmanexezone.com/ Scilab Secrets (Represented by RockmanCosmo -- The leader who preserved the Mega Man cell phone games like "Phantom of Network" and "Legend of Network") rockmancosmo.weebly.com/
Slaying 100 Kendobots is a rite of passage, a proof of worthiness, a true coming of age tale. Those who complain about it don’t deserve to rate BN5 (I’d give an A-) I would’ve loved to see liberation missions expanded upon, and was sad with how easy and almost childish in comparison the viruses were in BN6 (still love 6 for its design and gameplay, but a combo of 5/6 would’ve be the BEST BN game imo) Great tier list, thanks for uploading!
I think people overlook the fact that BN4 had more gatekeeping issues with their mini-game being too fast-paced like Tamako (hate the rock breaking thing) or not properly defined (Crusher stealth minigame against multiple heel navis in an open area) compared to BN5, being only these 100 hit trials. Those 100 kendobots aren't the most brutal. The bots start out slow for you to test out the controls and it progressively gets harder properly. But you can't mash attack button because it can't buffer (cancel the animation) your input to turn around while you are attacking.
@@AndMySax Funniest thing about BN5's trial is that in DTDS, there were a mercy mode where they slowed down all the bots if you failed too many times. For LC, since they intended to keep it as GBA as possible, they didn't include that same mercy option found on the DS. They put out a statement that basically said "git gud" in their FAQ section about the game. xD
@@rebycVG LOL I love that. I remember when I was young and first playing I had to come back to it over at least 2 days. I must have kept the skill once I played DTDS cause I don’t remember any mercy 😂
@@AndMySax I think i used mercy in DTDS, lmao. After you fail the third time, you get an optional prompt for it. I did clear it on GBA ~20 years ago! And LC last year, lol.
Btw, i been grinding BN4 on the BNLC for my switch. My opinions on BN4 are still the same. I love this fkin game soooo much. On Continue 5 already; i WILL get back to 63.
I am so happy that Soul has the same opinions for BN4 and 5. I loved how different the gameplay structure was for each game. I played BN4 so much I basically was speed running each playthrough as a kid
Much love to you Emilio!! I really need to finish it. I've never fully beaten or played those games. I just remember Network Transmission being really hard!
This was such a fun discussion to listen in on. I was pleasantly surprised with most of the rankings. As much as I freaking looove the BN games, I struggle to consider any of them S tier, interestingly enough. They each have some REALLY ANNOYING parts that knocked a few points off for me. BN2 with Freezeman, BN3 with mandatory NCP and version exclusives, BN5 with virus gates, BN6 with overall general difficulty (lack thereof), BN1 with maps and subchips, BN4 with ....everything ._. LOL
I have a special fondness for Battlechip Challenge, I enjoy the occasional auto battler and as a kid it was easy to play in the car lol... The mechanics are unique and the music slaps, the two unique playable characters are also dope
My updated thoughts on BN4 after coming back from the other games 1. Has a few gatekeeping issues, especially in the 2nd tournament scenario that puts a harsh progress lock on story completion for casual players due to poorly designed minigame. Harry Potter style of stealth in exploration (avoid mafia heel navis, if you get found, you get send back to the beginning instead of forcing through with a fight) Tamako's rock breaking is too fast paced and short effective bar (on 60 fps, it is far too strict), Woodman cause lag on DS console (not anymore in LC), and Flave cooking minigame being fast-paced as well. 2. Using untrap does not guarantee battle chips from rigged GMD like in BN5 and BN6. This can be a hot take and player can still get as low as 400 zenny but it ruins the reason for players to even use Untrap because there is already randomness factor included of what reward players get the moment they jacked into the net. 3. Incident Occurence or panic music playing on loop and plaguing the players every time they proceed from continue. Like legit, Capcom didn't fix this in Legacy Collection despite showcasing BN4 gameplay in the marketing segment. 4. If people thought BN5 liberation mission was bad because it is just a multiple forced time limit battle with no rewards and only affects how far can you proceed, BN4 puts you through this almost every scenario and etc. 5. Other than nostalgia, the thing that stops people from rating BN4 lower than SF2 is because most people prefer battle network style combat and they get to fight Roll and have Roll Soul and some other souls that has good design and gamebreaking PvP options. I will agree that BN4 starting the counter hit combat style is actually a welcoming because it is not just brain-dead spam chip with highest damage. And there is a reason to learn how bosses behave and punished them when they attack. It is better than what BN3 did because there's no point of learning a boss attack pattern if the counter hit and punished is only a finisher (even if it is to farm bugfrags). So at the end of the day, for me BN4 is an E tier or if this is a scale of 1 to 10, it is 2.5. This is just my personal take. Serenade is no doubt has good aesthetic when it comes to design but I don't think many would say Serenade Boss fight that lacks aggro and exploitable cheese strat in BN3 is their favourite Boss compared to Bass. John's punchline in 20:10 is killing me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Also as a sidenote, maybe you should turn off sound alert from Text to speech when inviting people to join into the podcast next time, I know some people wants to get their points across for you to convey it for them during the stream and prioritized but it drowns the voice and whatever the other person is saying.
For many people the legacy collection is the first time where pvp is even a factor to evaluate these games since i would bet a majority of people didnt know someone they could battle against when these games first released. I think this does a LOT of favors for BN3. Its my favorite in the series because pvp was never something i got to experience but i can see the community changing their views on 3 vs 6 among the battlenetworks as pvp becomes more accessible. I WILL say that i still think 3 does the best job at trying to be a good game and not just a good battle network in having something resembling a plot, visual presentation, diverse boss roster and post game. Even the optional BBS content is passable and you dont have to engage with 90% of it if you dont like it.
I'm still under the impression the people who think BN3 is the best forgot about the Compress and Energy Change Programs, but still not sure if I'd give BN6 S tier status but I think it's fine up in S, also SF2 is not as bad as people say and remember, it's just a major downgrade from SF1's Storytelling so I would say bumping it up to at least BN1 status would be fine.
Compress and Energy Change are annoying and we did bring that up (I personally just keep them in my NCP the whole game) Despite that, BN3 is just that good! I'm revisiting SF2 soon. Can't say I'm excited about it, but I'll be curious to see how it does (or doesn't) hold up
@@scoutmasterdemi Just Hack BN3,Make FolderBack Your RegChip,Bass GS Your 11th Chip,AND DESTROY EVERYTHING!And Make A PA Folder!Star Force 2 Ninja Version Tribe King Is The Best Version Of The Form,Due To The Card Charge Attack!
In defense of SF2... When I recently replayed it, I made sure it was the very first thing I played before jumping back into the rest, so, I was on a fresh mind going in. ... I'll say SF2 is misunderstood. The story more than the gameplay. Cuz the way I see the story of SF2 is that... After the whole situation with the FM-ian invasion, this game felt like Geo and friend just taking a break from all that shish (Or at least trying to.) and be themselves for once. Y'know, children being children! Sure they are trope-y, but, it wasn't any different from how they were in SF1, honestly. (This was after playing SF1DX.) In SF1, Bud was still talking about food all the time when there was nothing happening, Luna kept being tsundere even after the whole situation with her parents, Zack... Nothing really happened to him, so, he didn't get any growth (ha) and Geo was never his true self until the end of SF1 where he decided to move on in life. So, to say that they regressed is wrong because they were always like that. As for the villains in turn- I've heard that many people didn't really get the point with Hyde messing up a movie or a resort which... makes me wonder how since Hyde explicitly says that he's doing it to spread chaos and showcase the power of Mu to the masses. (Maybe people just stopped caring too fast about the story to skip the small, yet, important bits to make sense of things.) Solo being super edge has a reason I can get behind. (Altho with a giant hole in the back of that reason he can't see.) The only bit I can say its stupid is the end with Vega... talking to her dead boyfriend out of nowhere? XD Other than that, Its a good story! The people just refused to understand it because it wasn't SF1... As for gameplay in-battle, it is incredibly solid, I'll say! Better than SF1 in many ways, imo. I didnt really mind the high encounter rate since Cloakers are cheap. (Skill issue!) And even with the not quite DX patch, there were some instances where I wish I could turn the encounter rate back to how it was before just so I could farm cards faster and find ghosts faster! It is good, for sure (and the ingame irl brothers are neat too.), but I would've preferred it as something you could toggle on and off instead. With all of this said... If I were to put SF2 anywhere in that tier list, I would say wihout a doubt... *A*. Its a great game, its just not for everyone.
I guess I am not the only one who think Star Force 2 isn't as bad as people thought it was, aside from the absurdly high random encounter rate. The version difference is very miniscule because of the blank cards and Wave Command Card Systems. You can change between either Zerker, Ninja or Saurian any time you want because you may not necessarily want to be Tribe King through Saurian as starter and vice versa. The existence of real brothers compliment this system for that reason. You can get the other versions' Giga Cards as part of the folder and not limited to your brothers' roullete. If you want, you can have two copies of your version's Giga in the same folder. You also can get stat buff to max out your buster stat and start with fast gauge. Even for post-game area, they had multiple bosses in the same area but they minimised the problem by making them a static NPC that you can always rechallenged them any time by pulsing out. This is what Star Force 3 should have done for that games strongest bosses. Not making them as random encounter with fixed rate and adding them alongside a few other bosses in the same area. My personal problem with Star Force 2 is personally, is that the Tribe forms did not have consistency like it did in Star Force 1 and 3. First thing, it doesn't guarantee the Link Force Big Bang Card when you do a counter hit in any of the Tribe Form, because its random, it makes me question is it really worth going into tribe form if you don't get consistency to use them. Second, even if you got it, it resets your charge shot immediately and that isn't good for combat diversity to mix in a charge shot as part of a combo. Third, its the brother card clogging the custom screen every time you transformed, even worst if you do it from base megaman because you could potentially clogged either the top or bottom row, limiting your card selection further. It exist for PvP reasons since touching the card during battle can initiate a LFBB as part of a TFC that cannot be countered so I can't say that its bad during PvP. Also rouge tribe sucks because it can't equip things like Side Select, Super Armor or Auto Lock due to having a cap of 400 Link Power and can't use Mega Cards.
After listening to the podcast, over and over again, I realised one major flaw to the BN/SF tier list which debunk the whole opinion that this games tier list is definitive. Everybody put too much emphasis on Story and its writing. Because of that, there are games that are overrated and ones that are underrated for these reasons. It seems like a poor cop-out argument when games like Star Force 2 did something objectively better than even Star Force 1, BN1 and BN4. Not only that, while I understand that people like BN3 because it has the most amount of post-game content. You also have to take into factors of the process/things you have to do to get there and what is repetitive. Length of post-game content doesn't necessarily contribute if a post-game is good or bad. Its the process you need to do to get there. This is a video game tier list, not an anime seasons that you watched over and over again. Gameplay should have the most weightage because that is the core part of a video game, you spend your time to play that video game. My suggestion is that there should be a scoring system with three major aspects that determines whether that game are in the following tier. The aspects are 1. Presentation (Aesthetics of viruses/bosses, internet/dungeon maps, music, promotions and marketing if applicable) with 30% weightage 2. Story (Writing, translation, plot relevancy) with 20% weightage 3. Gameplay (Grinding for 100% (post game), chip library utility, customization/form change, enemy's difficulty, dungeon puzzle/minigame, final boss mechanics, usage of physical peripherals (if applicable), system menu, along with any other of the game's mechanics) with 50% weightage. Things that cannot be included as part of the judgement that already being said in the podcast was mods that primarily change the way the core gameplay and even preference of which combat style of either BN/SF. Translation patch is an exception to this matter. While not all factors I listed may be applicable to all because some games doesn't have it, you can just evaluate based on what the game offers you. As far as grading goes based on final scores and this is pretty generous as far as I can suggest S tier : 85 - 100 A Tier: 75 - 84 B Tier: 65 - 74 C Tier: 55 - 64 D Tier: 40 - 54 F Tier: 0 - 39 So with multiple people, add up all the scores and take the average of the final score. It might not be what the community expects but evaluating with a proper ground rule gives more credibility as to why you think this game is good or that game is bad. That's why I feel like this tier list needs to be redone again with proper ground rules to decide what is part of the evaluation. The other tier list you did before for battle chips, navi cust programs, design of power ups are fine because it is based either based on personal preference for aesthatics or you evaluate based on how those works in PvP for one particular game.
maybe this is the product of being a 5 year old with like 3 gamecube games, but i really enjoy network transmission problems aside. I know grinding in a platformer sucks but as a kid a BIG megaman game was a really cool experience. won't lie though, i got stuck on quickman for years lmfao
I wish there were more tournaments for 3. It's ironic. There are so many tournaments for 6 but few for 3. "They praise the mighty oak tree but curse the ground it grows on
Love BN3 to death. Horribly unbalanced PVP. It's hard to know where to start with a banlist. That being said, "Better BN3" is a thing you can play on Tango and it's pretty great!
Imo SF2 is better than BN4 because it has Tribe King and a method to start every battle with it to trivialize the high encounter rate and turns combat into a different puzzle to beat it before it expires, every encounter is just more time to be Tribe King, C BN4 has nothing to remove it's tedium, it would be better if the tournament was ACTUALLY random so if you're lucky you have the chance to get the souls in 1 playthrough, C for 1 playthrough D for 3, the introduction of Souls keeps it out of F
Man i 100 percent agree on soul with battle network 4. Mainly because Battle network 4 let's me do one thing that the other games for some reason don't. I can KEEP my chips on a new game. I am not a 100 percent completionist so i dont really care about complaints i perceive as small. And i started with 3. A game that also can feel like a slog at times but get's slack because it was also peoples first.
I respect Network Transmission a lot. I like the kinda open stages, and it's really cool to see Battle Chips in a more classic MM environment. But my goodness, the game has a lot of obvious flaws. Your MB gauge takes forever to refill, especially in the early game, Battlechips need to be grinded for way more than you really care to in a platformer, and the first couple bosses are roooooooough. Feels like you have to sit by the boss gate, burning through chips and waiting for the custom gauge to fill up just to make sure you have everything in its place. Then sit there and wait again for the CG to refill so you can access the same thing again. I think the game had a lot of potential, and I personally enjoy playing it. But if I'm being objective, it's got a lot of hostile game design.
Love BN3 to death. Unfortunately, it is very unbalanced PVP. Horrendously so. It's hard to know where to even start with a banlist. That being said, "Better BN3" is a thing you can play on Tango and it's pretty great!
@@scoutmasterdemi I believe that EVERYTHING is broken in PvP in one way or another, which is why I loved playing it so much on the Legacy Collection. There was just so much to play around with in PvP. However, I am open to the "Better BN3" on Tango. Is the BN3 on Tango too unbalanced of a game to have tournaments on? If not, why not try having some tournaments for it? (Anything to play my favorite Battle Network game with other people.)
@@roy_the_boi_sama5792 I'm glad you had fun playing it on the ladder! What was your favorite strategy to use? Better BN3 is pretty cool. It puts a good nerf on Folderbak, it lets wind chips blow away auras (like BN6), and made some of the more oppressive strategies like Flashman/Plantman spam less viable. My only problem with running a tournament is my own time. Been trying hard to make reviews on every DS game, and I have a weekly travel channel too. Maybe one day!!!
@@scoutmasterdemi My favorite strategy was using Flashman and Geddon F to then use as many Snake chips as possible while the opponent is stunned. Another strategy I like to use is purposely letting my opponent grab all of my areas and using all 4 GrabRevenge Chips in one turn. I'd love to try out the Better BN3 at some point and see what fun strategies I could use. I really appreciate your honesty and understand your reasoning. I'll look forward to that day if it ever happens!
Sorry y'all but imo BN3 belongs in C or D. Main story quest objectives are horrible, a lot of tedious back tracking on the net. Not a fun game. I think for the more hardcore players, sure, it's got great post game but I don't value that more than the main story
![[VOD] Inscryption - FINALE: Let's make it 'till we break it](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RWclkOx75cc/mqdefault.jpg)
Here's info on all our amazing guests! (In alphabetical order)
GoodTofuFriday
(He preserved the arcade games "Rockman EXE: Battle Chip Stadium" & "Rockman EXE: Medal Operation" & "Rockmanman EXE: Medal Network")
twitter.com/goodtofufriday
KNIJohn
(Reviewer extraordinaire!)
www.youtube.com/@knijohn3581
Mega Man Battle Network: Chrono X
(Represented by Giver336 -- Director of this amazing fangame!)
www.mmbnchronox.com/
discord.com/invite/mmbncx
N1GP
(Represented by SoulXCross -- Commentator for BN6 PVP tournaments)
n1gp.net/
twitter.com/SoulXCross
The Rockman EXE Zone
(Represented by MegaRockEXE -- Graphic designer for TREZ games)
twitter.com/megarock_exe
www.therockmanexezone.com/
Scilab Secrets
(Represented by RockmanCosmo -- The leader who preserved the Mega Man cell phone games like "Phantom of Network" and "Legend of Network")
rockmancosmo.weebly.com/
Slaying 100 Kendobots is a rite of passage, a proof of worthiness, a true coming of age tale. Those who complain about it don’t deserve to rate BN5 (I’d give an A-)
I would’ve loved to see liberation missions expanded upon, and was sad with how easy and almost childish in comparison the viruses were in BN6 (still love 6 for its design and gameplay, but a combo of 5/6 would’ve be the BEST BN game imo)
Great tier list, thanks for uploading!
I think people overlook the fact that BN4 had more gatekeeping issues with their mini-game being too fast-paced like Tamako (hate the rock breaking thing) or not properly defined (Crusher stealth minigame against multiple heel navis in an open area) compared to BN5, being only these 100 hit trials.
Those 100 kendobots aren't the most brutal. The bots start out slow for you to test out the controls and it progressively gets harder properly. But you can't mash attack button because it can't buffer (cancel the animation) your input to turn around while you are attacking.
@@hiroran9796 I actually look forward to the 100 hit trial coming back into it with the LC. BN4 I still haven’t fully completed 😅 one day…
@@AndMySax Funniest thing about BN5's trial is that in DTDS, there were a mercy mode where they slowed down all the bots if you failed too many times. For LC, since they intended to keep it as GBA as possible, they didn't include that same mercy option found on the DS. They put out a statement that basically said "git gud" in their FAQ section about the game. xD
@@rebycVG LOL I love that. I remember when I was young and first playing I had to come back to it over at least 2 days. I must have kept the skill once I played DTDS cause I don’t remember any mercy 😂
@@AndMySax I think i used mercy in DTDS, lmao. After you fail the third time, you get an optional prompt for it. I did clear it on GBA ~20 years ago! And LC last year, lol.
Btw, i been grinding BN4 on the BNLC for my switch. My opinions on BN4 are still the same. I love this fkin game soooo much. On Continue 5 already; i WILL get back to 63.
I hope you never lose your save and make it to 64+, Soul
I am so happy that Soul has the same opinions for BN4 and 5. I loved how different the gameplay structure was for each game. I played BN4 so much I basically was speed running each playthrough as a kid
You guys ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S.: Network Transmission is one of my favorites!!! I would put it on A Tier, along with Rockman.EXE WS.
Much love to you Emilio!!
I really need to finish it. I've never fully beaten or played those games. I just remember Network Transmission being really hard!
This was such a fun discussion to listen in on. I was pleasantly surprised with most of the rankings. As much as I freaking looove the BN games, I struggle to consider any of them S tier, interestingly enough. They each have some REALLY ANNOYING parts that knocked a few points off for me. BN2 with Freezeman, BN3 with mandatory NCP and version exclusives, BN5 with virus gates, BN6 with overall general difficulty (lack thereof), BN1 with maps and subchips, BN4 with ....everything ._. LOL
Big agree with this. I think 3 and 6 could come the closest, but none are perfect games.
W tier list!
I have a special fondness for Battlechip Challenge, I enjoy the occasional auto battler and as a kid it was easy to play in the car lol... The mechanics are unique and the music slaps, the two unique playable characters are also dope
I said it on the vid and I'll say it again -- I think BCC would make such a fun auto-battler in today's world!
(And the music is so soo good!)
Continue 64
My updated thoughts on BN4 after coming back from the other games
1. Has a few gatekeeping issues, especially in the 2nd tournament scenario that puts a harsh progress lock on story completion for casual players due to poorly designed minigame. Harry Potter style of stealth in exploration (avoid mafia heel navis, if you get found, you get send back to the beginning instead of forcing through with a fight) Tamako's rock breaking is too fast paced and short effective bar (on 60 fps, it is far too strict), Woodman cause lag on DS console (not anymore in LC), and Flave cooking minigame being fast-paced as well.
2. Using untrap does not guarantee battle chips from rigged GMD like in BN5 and BN6. This can be a hot take and player can still get as low as 400 zenny but it ruins the reason for players to even use Untrap because there is already randomness factor included of what reward players get the moment they jacked into the net.
3. Incident Occurence or panic music playing on loop and plaguing the players every time they proceed from continue. Like legit, Capcom didn't fix this in Legacy Collection despite showcasing BN4 gameplay in the marketing segment.
4. If people thought BN5 liberation mission was bad because it is just a multiple forced time limit battle with no rewards and only affects how far can you proceed, BN4 puts you through this almost every scenario and etc.
5. Other than nostalgia, the thing that stops people from rating BN4 lower than SF2 is because most people prefer battle network style combat and they get to fight Roll and have Roll Soul and some other souls that has good design and gamebreaking PvP options.
I will agree that BN4 starting the counter hit combat style is actually a welcoming because it is not just brain-dead spam chip with highest damage. And there is a reason to learn how bosses behave and punished them when they attack. It is better than what BN3 did because there's no point of learning a boss attack pattern if the counter hit and punished is only a finisher (even if it is to farm bugfrags). So at the end of the day, for me BN4 is an E tier or if this is a scale of 1 to 10, it is 2.5.
This is just my personal take. Serenade is no doubt has good aesthetic when it comes to design but I don't think many would say Serenade Boss fight that lacks aggro and exploitable cheese strat in BN3 is their favourite Boss compared to Bass.
John's punchline in 20:10 is killing me 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Also as a sidenote, maybe you should turn off sound alert from Text to speech when inviting people to join into the podcast next time, I know some people wants to get their points across for you to convey it for them during the stream and prioritized but it drowns the voice and whatever the other person is saying.
Fully agree Hiro. And TTS was new to me at the time -- Definitely have it more settled for the future!
For many people the legacy collection is the first time where pvp is even a factor to evaluate these games since i would bet a majority of people didnt know someone they could battle against when these games first released. I think this does a LOT of favors for BN3. Its my favorite in the series because pvp was never something i got to experience but i can see the community changing their views on 3 vs 6 among the battlenetworks as pvp becomes more accessible.
I WILL say that i still think 3 does the best job at trying to be a good game and not just a good battle network in having something resembling a plot, visual presentation, diverse boss roster and post game. Even the optional BBS content is passable and you dont have to engage with 90% of it if you dont like it.
Lan's dream sequence before the endgame begins always gets me. What an ambitious story they were telling on a GBA of all things
I'm still under the impression the people who think BN3 is the best forgot about the Compress and Energy Change Programs, but still not sure if I'd give BN6 S tier status but I think it's fine up in S, also SF2 is not as bad as people say and remember, it's just a major downgrade from SF1's Storytelling so I would say bumping it up to at least BN1 status would be fine.
Compress and Energy Change are annoying and we did bring that up (I personally just keep them in my NCP the whole game)
Despite that, BN3 is just that good!
I'm revisiting SF2 soon. Can't say I'm excited about it, but I'll be curious to see how it does (or doesn't) hold up
Agreed on all fronts.
@@scoutmasterdemi Just Hack BN3,Make FolderBack Your RegChip,Bass GS Your 11th Chip,AND DESTROY EVERYTHING!And Make A PA Folder!Star Force 2 Ninja Version Tribe King Is The Best Version Of The Form,Due To The Card Charge Attack!
In defense of SF2...
When I recently replayed it, I made sure it was the very first thing I played before jumping back into the rest, so, I was on a fresh mind going in.
... I'll say SF2 is misunderstood.
The story more than the gameplay.
Cuz the way I see the story of SF2 is that... After the whole situation with the FM-ian invasion, this game felt like Geo and friend just taking a break from all that shish (Or at least trying to.) and be themselves for once.
Y'know, children being children!
Sure they are trope-y, but, it wasn't any different from how they were in SF1, honestly. (This was after playing SF1DX.)
In SF1, Bud was still talking about food all the time when there was nothing happening, Luna kept being tsundere even after the whole situation with her parents, Zack... Nothing really happened to him, so, he didn't get any growth (ha) and Geo was never his true self until the end of SF1 where he decided to move on in life.
So, to say that they regressed is wrong because they were always like that.
As for the villains in turn- I've heard that many people didn't really get the point with Hyde messing up a movie or a resort which... makes me wonder how since Hyde explicitly says that he's doing it to spread chaos and showcase the power of Mu to the masses.
(Maybe people just stopped caring too fast about the story to skip the small, yet, important bits to make sense of things.)
Solo being super edge has a reason I can get behind. (Altho with a giant hole in the back of that reason he can't see.)
The only bit I can say its stupid is the end with Vega... talking to her dead boyfriend out of nowhere? XD
Other than that, Its a good story! The people just refused to understand it because it wasn't SF1...
As for gameplay in-battle, it is incredibly solid, I'll say!
Better than SF1 in many ways, imo.
I didnt really mind the high encounter rate since Cloakers are cheap. (Skill issue!)
And even with the not quite DX patch, there were some instances where I wish I could turn the encounter rate back to how it was before just so I could farm cards faster and find ghosts faster!
It is good, for sure (and the ingame irl brothers are neat too.), but I would've preferred it as something you could toggle on and off instead.
With all of this said... If I were to put SF2 anywhere in that tier list, I would say wihout a doubt... *A*.
Its a great game, its just not for everyone.
I guess I am not the only one who think Star Force 2 isn't as bad as people thought it was, aside from the absurdly high random encounter rate.
The version difference is very miniscule because of the blank cards and Wave Command Card Systems. You can change between either Zerker, Ninja or Saurian any time you want because you may not necessarily want to be Tribe King through Saurian as starter and vice versa. The existence of real brothers compliment this system for that reason. You can get the other versions' Giga Cards as part of the folder and not limited to your brothers' roullete. If you want, you can have two copies of your version's Giga in the same folder. You also can get stat buff to max out your buster stat and start with fast gauge.
Even for post-game area, they had multiple bosses in the same area but they minimised the problem by making them a static NPC that you can always rechallenged them any time by pulsing out. This is what Star Force 3 should have done for that games strongest bosses. Not making them as random encounter with fixed rate and adding them alongside a few other bosses in the same area.
My personal problem with Star Force 2 is personally, is that the Tribe forms did not have consistency like it did in Star Force 1 and 3. First thing, it doesn't guarantee the Link Force Big Bang Card when you do a counter hit in any of the Tribe Form, because its random, it makes me question is it really worth going into tribe form if you don't get consistency to use them. Second, even if you got it, it resets your charge shot immediately and that isn't good for combat diversity to mix in a charge shot as part of a combo. Third, its the brother card clogging the custom screen every time you transformed, even worst if you do it from base megaman because you could potentially clogged either the top or bottom row, limiting your card selection further. It exist for PvP reasons since touching the card during battle can initiate a LFBB as part of a TFC that cannot be countered so I can't say that its bad during PvP. Also rouge tribe sucks because it can't equip things like Side Select, Super Armor or Auto Lock due to having a cap of 400 Link Power and can't use Mega Cards.
Thanks for uploading
Thank you Ricky!
This was a great panel. The one thing that peeved me was the dono playing over the person talking on the panel. I couldn't hear the person talking.
Yeah... Unfortunately Text To Speech was new to me at the time & that really showed. More to learn from in the next one!
Me I like sf2 and bn4 without those 2 game I wouldn’t join megaman fandom
They can be fun for sure! They just don't hold up to the others IMO
@@scoutmasterdemi true
After listening to the podcast, over and over again, I realised one major flaw to the BN/SF tier list which debunk the whole opinion that this games tier list is definitive. Everybody put too much emphasis on Story and its writing. Because of that, there are games that are overrated and ones that are underrated for these reasons. It seems like a poor cop-out argument when games like Star Force 2 did something objectively better than even Star Force 1, BN1 and BN4.
Not only that, while I understand that people like BN3 because it has the most amount of post-game content. You also have to take into factors of the process/things you have to do to get there and what is repetitive. Length of post-game content doesn't necessarily contribute if a post-game is good or bad. Its the process you need to do to get there.
This is a video game tier list, not an anime seasons that you watched over and over again. Gameplay should have the most weightage because that is the core part of a video game, you spend your time to play that video game.
My suggestion is that there should be a scoring system with three major aspects that determines whether that game are in the following tier. The aspects are
1. Presentation (Aesthetics of viruses/bosses, internet/dungeon maps, music, promotions and marketing if applicable) with 30% weightage
2. Story (Writing, translation, plot relevancy) with 20% weightage
3. Gameplay (Grinding for 100% (post game), chip library utility, customization/form change, enemy's difficulty, dungeon puzzle/minigame, final boss mechanics, usage of physical peripherals (if applicable), system menu, along with any other of the game's mechanics) with 50% weightage.
Things that cannot be included as part of the judgement that already being said in the podcast was mods that primarily change the way the core gameplay and even preference of which combat style of either BN/SF. Translation patch is an exception to this matter. While not all factors I listed may be applicable to all because some games doesn't have it, you can just evaluate based on what the game offers you.
As far as grading goes based on final scores and this is pretty generous as far as I can suggest
S tier : 85 - 100
A Tier: 75 - 84
B Tier: 65 - 74
C Tier: 55 - 64
D Tier: 40 - 54
F Tier: 0 - 39
So with multiple people, add up all the scores and take the average of the final score. It might not be what the community expects but evaluating with a proper ground rule gives more credibility as to why you think this game is good or that game is bad.
That's why I feel like this tier list needs to be redone again with proper ground rules to decide what is part of the evaluation. The other tier list you did before for battle chips, navi cust programs, design of power ups are fine because it is based either based on personal preference for aesthatics or you evaluate based on how those works in PvP for one particular game.
maybe this is the product of being a 5 year old with like 3 gamecube games, but i really enjoy network transmission problems aside. I know grinding in a platformer sucks but as a kid a BIG megaman game was a really cool experience.
won't lie though, i got stuck on quickman for years lmfao
For what it's worth -- that soundtrack is beyond peak!
I wish there were more tournaments for 3. It's ironic. There are so many tournaments for 6 but few for 3.
"They praise the mighty oak tree but curse the ground it grows on
Love BN3 to death. Horribly unbalanced PVP. It's hard to know where to start with a banlist.
That being said, "Better BN3" is a thing you can play on Tango and it's pretty great!
Imo SF2 is better than BN4 because it has Tribe King and a method to start every battle with it to trivialize the high encounter rate and turns combat into a different puzzle to beat it before it expires, every encounter is just more time to be Tribe King, C
BN4 has nothing to remove it's tedium, it would be better if the tournament was ACTUALLY random so if you're lucky you have the chance to get the souls in 1 playthrough, C for 1 playthrough D for 3, the introduction of Souls keeps it out of F
>>KniJohn
Dang. Here I thought this was a Battle Network channel.
His gradual descent into full-on BN coverage makes me smile inside lol
SF3 JP is S tier. SF3 any other region... is still S, honestly, but I wanna rank it A out of spite for the stuff we missed out on.
More to get excited about with eventual SF Legacy Collection :' )
Fun video but those TTS donos were absolutely distracting from the people I actually wanted to hear.
Yeaaah... Very unfortunate. Lots of learning there.
@@scoutmasterdemi Was still a super fun listen and those were my only gripes tbh. Keep it up fam!
Man i 100 percent agree on soul with battle network 4.
Mainly because Battle network 4 let's me do one thing that the other games for some reason don't. I can KEEP my chips on a new game. I am not a 100 percent completionist so i dont really care about complaints i perceive as small.
And i started with 3. A game that also can feel like a slog at times but get's slack because it was also peoples first.
Network Transmission and Chip Challenge that low? bruh
You're gonna have a hard time changing my mind but shoot your shot Lukja!
I respect Network Transmission a lot. I like the kinda open stages, and it's really cool to see Battle Chips in a more classic MM environment. But my goodness, the game has a lot of obvious flaws. Your MB gauge takes forever to refill, especially in the early game, Battlechips need to be grinded for way more than you really care to in a platformer, and the first couple bosses are roooooooough. Feels like you have to sit by the boss gate, burning through chips and waiting for the custom gauge to fill up just to make sure you have everything in its place. Then sit there and wait again for the CG to refill so you can access the same thing again. I think the game had a lot of potential, and I personally enjoy playing it. But if I'm being objective, it's got a lot of hostile game design.
@@scoutmasterdemi I liked 'em.
Battle Network 3 is in S Tier, yet there are no tournaments for it.
“These people honor it with their lips, but their hearts are far from it.”
Love BN3 to death. Unfortunately, it is very unbalanced PVP. Horrendously so. It's hard to know where to even start with a banlist.
That being said, "Better BN3" is a thing you can play on Tango and it's pretty great!
@@scoutmasterdemi I believe that EVERYTHING is broken in PvP in one way or another, which is why I loved playing it so much on the Legacy Collection. There was just so much to play around with in PvP.
However, I am open to the "Better BN3" on Tango. Is the BN3 on Tango too unbalanced of a game to have tournaments on? If not, why not try having some tournaments for it? (Anything to play my favorite Battle Network game with other people.)
@@roy_the_boi_sama5792 I'm glad you had fun playing it on the ladder! What was your favorite strategy to use?
Better BN3 is pretty cool. It puts a good nerf on Folderbak, it lets wind chips blow away auras (like BN6), and made some of the more oppressive strategies like Flashman/Plantman spam less viable. My only problem with running a tournament is my own time. Been trying hard to make reviews on every DS game, and I have a weekly travel channel too. Maybe one day!!!
@@scoutmasterdemi My favorite strategy was using Flashman and Geddon F to then use as many Snake chips as possible while the opponent is stunned. Another strategy I like to use is purposely letting my opponent grab all of my areas and using all 4 GrabRevenge Chips in one turn. I'd love to try out the Better BN3 at some point and see what fun strategies I could use.
I really appreciate your honesty and understand your reasoning. I'll look forward to that day if it ever happens!
All fun and games until a White Player hops in with Folderbak
nix the tts next time
How hairy is your chest?
Remember Beastman's operator? It was me all along
😂
Sorry y'all but imo BN3 belongs in C or D. Main story quest objectives are horrible, a lot of tedious back tracking on the net. Not a fun game. I think for the more hardcore players, sure, it's got great post game but I don't value that more than the main story
1:57:44
^ My reaction to this Werti (lol)
@@scoutmasterdemi lol'd irl @ this timestamp, ty Demi. LMFAO
Ok but consider this; FldrBak
major L take