HVAC 079 Water cooled condenser introduction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- detailed information on water cooled condensers
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Great resource on water cooled condensers
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I’m so glad you did this video, I’ve had a hard time understanding how these water cooled system worked just by looking at them. Never knew that’s how the piping was working.
I started working on water cooled about a year ago and this video is very interesting. Seeing the condenser cut open is a great visual. Water cooled is expensive to get started but way more efficient once started up. Thanks.
Great video! Really helped me out on this style of coil. Thank you.
Keep up the good work. I have been using your videos to teach the techs I work with. Love your ending about hoping that they move on. That has been my goal, I want the guys I train to be better than me.
Thanks Ty, this Vid explained a lot, I've gained heaps of knowledge of water cooled condensers in 6:43!! Excellent
Thank you once again!!
Awesome video man thank you
My previous geo heat pump used the submersible well pump to supply water. 1200 watts=too much, no savings there, though it put out 100 degree air. My new geo air cond will use 70' of 1 inch copper pipe with a u-shape sunk in the well [57 degrees] and solar powered circulation pump. Hope there is enough recovery to handle 21,000 btus
Cheers
Ed c
Am looking at dumping the extra heat into a hot water preheat tank. Always need hot water for showers/etc - getting it up from 45 degrees would be great.
Did you made some measurements for wattage? Comparing air and water cooling? Would it be good to use warm water supply for heating with the inverter ac?
What seems to be a problem of one of our water source heat pump that’s working fine in cooling with good superheat and subcooling based on manufacturer’s data. But when it’s heating mode, it freezes up that coil. Uses capillary tube metering device.
Great video, l have that same system on my water cooled ice machine, but now the water is not flowing through the inlet causing machine to overheat and switch off before completing an ice making cycle, error message writes (high Pressure) what could be the problem
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Hey Ty, would be great to see more water source videos. These units are installed everywhere in my area in CT. Mostly geo heat pumps. And water temp is 52-60 all year. I've always wondered and havnt found answer to how these units can run in cooling with 50f water but yet if it was air cooled w 50f ambient we need head pressure control. No tech I've asked could answer this. I know water has a higher specific heat and heat capacity than air, but it's still 50f so I'd love a better understanding of how these units can run with no head pressure controls at those low temps. Great video
I want to do some Geo videos. There are not many around here and the people that have have not responded to my request.
The lower temperature is offset by the flow of the water. If the water flowed too fast it would be an issue and drop the head pressure.
In some cases, especially with open loop systems a water regulator valve is installed that uses head pressure to adjust and control the flow of water.
@@love2hvac thank you for the reply. Makes a little more sense. Can't wait for you to do some videos on it.
I work on a lot of geothermal units. We regularly use Pete's plugs to check water flow and hear transfer. Are these common on other systems? Thanks!
Most of the ones I worked with had a Petes plug kn Texas. I don't remember the highrises in Miami having them.
Does that particular heat exchanger have a special name? Is this the current technology to do this kind of thing? Thanks
I hope there will be a design in which the water that is warmed up by the hot refrigerant can be utilized (as a clean, warm water source) instead of being discharged into the environment.
Most of the time it is tied with a geothermal loop with glycol that is itself contains and recirculates. Others work with a cooling tower in the roof.
There are some older mindsets of people that use what is called a pump and dump that pumps water out of the ground and dumps it into a storm drain or sewer. Many places have banned that kind of system.
Thanks for the visual! How do you prevent dang old restrictions from happening in the refrigerant section of this piping, though? Seems inevitable with noncondensables
I have never had a restriction on the Refrigerant side of one of these. The water side ends up with calcium buildup that has to be treated from time to time though.
@@love2hvac thanks for the response! Must be a highly unusual situation I came across then. Thanks again for the video!
Maybe the water froze at one time, expanding the inner cupernickle reducing the refrigerant passage?
@@love2hvac I don't believe so because the system was able to run for about 5 minutes after being charged - then tripped on high head pressure. Tried to blow nitrogen through it and it was solidly blocked, so there has to be something that got into that spiral, or deformed it in some way.
What do you think about asking our hvac guy about changing our regular air coil on a 4 ton unit to water cooled one.. we are industrial laundry we have a huge 4300 gallon water tank with softened water no calcium on it. Our air compressors and air conpressor chillers run of this system they reticulate the water though the tank it's not enough to heat up the water may make it little warm if we aren't using the water but we run just about 24/7 do you think it's possible
Absolutely possible.
You can also buy a geothermal unit or a "Florida heat pump" that is designed to do exactly what you want in one convenient box.
I found this blog very useful,,,,I have litle question ,,,when the condenser water cooler it leak ,,,,in the refrigeration sistem ,,,do I need to change the unit ,,,? Or it recommend to change the water condensar cooler,, ? Can you advise you opinion ____ thank you
Refregerant in the water, change the condensing water coil set. If there is water in the refregerant then change the system.
DOES Receiver in the system would affect how do we set up the subcool on the water-cooled condenser, what subcool temp we should expect on the water-cooled condenser, how to calculate out approach temp in water-cooled condenser ? is it temp between water leaving the condenser and condenser saturation temp would be approach temp?
With a receiver subcooling will not be as important. Make sure the receiver is not over 80% when pumped down.
Your subcooling numbers will not be accurate however you can check for some subcooling at the exit of the condensor before the receiver.
Subcooling without a receiver will depend on on the manufacture design of the coil and system. The engineer will design __x_ volume for a subcooling cuircuit.
Approach would be
the temperature of the refregerant liquid leaving the condensor minis the water temp entering the condensor.
Condensor TD would be the saturated temperature (psig-temp) minis the water entering temperature
Condensor deltaT would be water temp into the condensor - water temperature leaving the condensor.
I have a building with 370 water source heat pumps. 2 big towers outside. 75hp pumps in the basement for the loop and tower
The units on the lowest level are the ones that get closed the most?
Can this be coupled to standard 16 SEER outdoor heat pump then on the water side go to a buffer tank for hydronic heating or cold water for cooling??
Yes, it doesn't need to be this big but there are kits available. Just for this purpose.
@@love2hvac can you steer me to one of the kits and do you think it would be better with a buffer tank ? Say 2 zones one for heat (hydronic) and one for water air handler. Just don't want to buy a monoblock..
For this condenser if the water line made from aluminum that will transfer heat better than copper. Thanks.
Possibly but the water will eat threw the aluminum too fast
Are water cooled condensers more efficient than air cooled condensers. Do they reduce the amperage draw by the compressor.?
Yes. A lower head pressure means lower compression ratio, less work on the compressor and lower amps
@@love2hvac thanks for the reply, so if i continuously pour a small amount of water on the condenser coil and fins of the my Air conditioners' outdoor unit will it reduce my electricity bill?
How to use water to cool if i have no water tap? Can i use a water pump instead? How to get cool water if i have no water tap? Do i need to add coolant liquid to the water ?
For this type heat exchanger you will need water available.
we build marine refrigeration systems, and nearly all are using cu-ni seawater condensers.
Thanks, Mike, I have some questions if you have time.
The seawater intake I'm assuming is a central system for many things. What kind of filtration is used and what type of pump is used?
How much life do you get out of the condensers?
Do you flush the condenser or have any other maintenance specific to the marine side.
Are you using water pressure regulator valves for the condensers?
Do you build the condensors there? I would love some pictures of the process.
@@love2hvac All good, I actually came from the pro sailing side of things and took my knowledge of boats to a new field about 20 years ago. The seawater circuit starts at the thru hull ball valve fitting, which may have a very coarse fwd facing clamshell strainer covering it, then a short, and hopefully, slight upward hose run to the inlet of a seawater strainer, which has a removable basket, much like your pool filter, but much more robust, with bonding direct to the zincs, this leads to the pump inlet.
The life of the bronze pump and impeller are really kind of unique to each boat, due to flow rates and how the system was maintained, restriction of seawater causes metal impingement and impeller cavitation/failure.
The pumps are matched to the needs of the system, generally its about 4 gallons a minute per 12k btu, the newer Ti units have different flow rates.
The condensers themselves are Cu-Ni or more recently Titanium.
They can last for decades or fail in months.
The condensers are usually flushed with a mild acid once a year at most in places where growth is excessive, usually in warm southeastern/tropical areas, where the pumps are running 24/7, this can vary a lot depending on lots of things.
Stuff grows where water flows.
The west coast is less of an issue because of less demand.
We do use a seawater regulating valve on some of the larger systems to allow them to deal with a wide range of seawater temps.
Most of these systems are air/water cooled with the seawater circuit first in the line.
The reason is that if you have done a big trip, caught lots of fish, and are heading back, and you have an issue, like hitting a log or something and the boat needs to be hauled out, you can simply turn off the pumps and keep the holds cold on air.
We build our own condensing units, not the condensers themselves.
We have a new 12/24/32vdc system that has a variable capacity, seawater cooled that is fantastic.
We also build eutectic plates for holdover systems in boats that need it.
I enjoy your videos and recommend them to anyone that wants to understand how heat moves.
Thanks.
Surface area
Is it feasible to integrate this Water Condenser TOGETHER with an existing Air Cooled Air Conditioning condenser ? Anyone ever tried ?
There is a hybrid unit.
A tech cuts the discharge line between the compressor and condensor, pipes it to water heat exchanger and then back to the condensor.
When the condensor ran, it activated a pump that moved water from the water heater to the heat exchanger and back the water heater.
It did not work so well because during the day when the AC ran, nobody was taking showers. In the morning when people took showers, the AC did not run.
RUUD had a premade condensor and water heater combo that used this same idea.
I really it's better to just use a dedicated HP water heater.
I did see 2 times where people have done something similar to help heat the pool but the pool water is hard on the heat exchanger.
@@love2hvac Thanks for your thoughts. Good point about the hard pool water too. I believe this is feasible to help remove heat for AC during our hot summers... not so much for heating in winter. I can try this first connected by relay a zone of my underground sprinkler system. Perhaps best like you mentioned (HP Water heater) to use a separate pump system with its own fluid. How about connected to a second heat exchanger dug in below the frost line? Thoughts? Thanks again.
Yes give that a try.
The absolute best would be a closed loop geothermal system with buried lines in the ground. Then you would not even need the air cooled side and it's more effective and dependable
The pc community was first to this party.
We had a lot of water cooled equipment.
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Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses.
It was always interesting when you put your gauges on and water came out.
Still a lot of waste water systems when I was in NY
@@love2hvac we only had two wastewater head pressure dump package units the rest were on towers.
@@love2hvac generally you could start to see a milky site Glass on the compressor.