If had started on a modern Downcountry bike 3 years ago, I would be still on one today instead of a gravel. I love my custom built gravel, but it would have saved me money, even with the cost of my custom built Enduro on top 😅
Lightness and the functioning of some mechanical components has improved, but not to any degree that a non- 'Nationals' level rider has any need of. The rest is just capitalism and merchandising.... Anyone who could swing a leg over a well set up 2005 Turner Nitrous (for instance) and find it inadequate for XC type riding is riding on another level from mere mortals.
Not surprised to see Rich is still suffering from 'Torsional Polarity Syndrome'- it's probably irreversible in his case. ALL of the 'improvements' he lists are materials driven, and those- not based on absolute performance- are driven by manufacturers cost cutting. Everything on your Chinese wonder missile is flammable, brittle, and poured into a mold from a giant vat of goo. In other news ( Shout out to the Don 😃) , Hank Djernis notoriously refused to ride full suss- he fitted all those Proflex bikes with dummy struts to lock the rear! Nino's ongoing battles with Scott to *not* ride their (admittedly pretty poor) fullies was only exceeded by the great Absalon- a hardtail man to the end. The man with the money calls the tune, eh?
They had to go full suspension/ even more off-road with XC Bikes to distinguish them from gravel bikes. Gravel bikes and the bigger tyre trend exist so you stop riding your 90s roadbike that can't fit those. All just a sales pitch. Also you gotta tell the roadie's that some comfort is fast otherwise you don't get new old rich people to pick up the hobby in the first place.
The Val Di Sol XC course was gnarly and that drop they were taking was nuts. I would have wanted an enduro bike to ride that. Speaking of Enduro, it really sucks that the UCI is covering EDR so poorly.
They need to have a retro or vintage class for 26" riders. Modern geometry & new tech is phenomenal & truly much nicer to ride, but much like riding single speed there is just something spiritual & nostalgic about racing/riding old tech.
No 26” are done, and need to be never ridden again. The only thing that 26” wheels bring to the table is quickness in tight single track. I love my Salsa Timberjack single speed but it isn’t as “fun” as my old 26” Spot SS I rode 24 years ago. That bike was fun as hell, like riding a huge BMX bike.
I'm so glad for the modernization of XC bikes. My local XC race is adopting more wrinkles every year including adding a few rock features, a few additional jumps here and there, ect... I'm already pushing my 120/115 just riding that course.
I’m pissed they made them illegal for racing! It makes no sense whatsoever. They’re great for changing hand positions on long rides and they’re actually safer than potentially getting core sampled by the end of a handlebar.
I ride a 2013 Fuji SLM 2.0, added a dropper, but tubeless, single chainring never catch me. 30 psi on tires and platform pedals for life! Anna is gorgeous!
I have a Cannondale F2000 (the same frame type that Cannondale Volvo team used to win the World Champs in 2000 and 2001) with the Headshok suspension system (70mm). That bike was, in a way, ahead of its time but its old school sizing and geometry makes the bike handle very differently to a modern bike.
I thought I'd like dark yellow Ergon grips....until I actually used them. Now I know why the pros usually stick to black. The yellow, and even orange, grips get so dirty by the end of a ride that you have to get an old toothbrush and clean them every time...and that's when you're now most tired. Alot of work for pretty. I eventually dumped the color and went back to black.
I think longer lower slacker is a fine line. I think we’ve reached the limit. I don’t want to see less than 66° head angles and my bottom bracket is already ridiculously low and pedal strikes are so annoying. The bikes are getting heavier, but I guess as long as we’re all getting heavier together that’s OK right?
I still have my fancy Scott scandium frame from back in the day but today I did a loop on my Scalpel SE and I don‘t miss the old times at all. It‘s such a good, capable bike. The only thing I miss from time to time is the big gears on the 3x chainset which would be handy to drop e-bikes.
That’s one thing that I have been wondering about. The lack of big gears is just nuts. If I was still racing these days, I would absolutely run a double ring up front so I could have some top end.
My 1989 Raleigh Peak is fully rigid and weighs 28 lbs. with XT. My Specialized Epic has full sus and xt 12 speed and 29" wheels and weighs 25 lbs. Huge improvement
27.5 still lives and the victory proves it. I’m not sure why that’s so shocking to everyone. 29 is just too big and looks a bit like a circus bike. I really hope they never phase out 27.5
IMO it was obvious in 1992 that Full SUS would come to dominate in all forms of racing. I come from an off-road motorcycle racing background and understood perfectly well that SUSPENSION was the most important aspect of chassis performance; reduced crashes, less fatigue and better traction up, down and around. I bought a Cannondale Delta V1000 in 1992 and went faster overall except on the smoothest of terrain. Hardtails lasted so long because riders were stubborn and macho….
I have a 2009 Specialized Epic. It came with 100/100mm travel, 29x1.9 tires on i18mm rims, 3x9 drivetrain, and road bike like geometry. The new Epic comes with 120/120mm travel, 1x12 drivetrain, 29x2.3 tires on i30mm rims, and progressive modern Trailbike geometry. I consider all these changes are for the better.
The Spur is probably still the best XC/Downcountry bike ever made. However, the new Specialized Epic 8, Pivot Mach 4, and Yeti ASR might be nipping at it's heels.
wait, so the Charger 3.1 damper is only $75.00? I was looking to possibly install a Charger 2.1 damper in my Domain and it was around $275.00. If the 3.1 is compatible then I'll definitely go with that instead.
Xc has become trail bikes trail bikes have become enduro bikes and enduros are basically dh bikes . Dh is looking pointless. Its crazy. 10 years ago putting 140 mil on my stumpy was frowned on, now there all in that range
A lot of these products being danced in front of the eyes of customers seem to be throw-away bikes. They seem to demand buyers get totally invested in the gravy train of buying, upgrading, changing, modifying, extensive maintenance, swapping for years to come. Where's the bike that will last a decade with little fuss, little problems, longevity and reliability with only brake pads, tires, and a bit of lube? Sell us those kind of bikes.
If it was broken before, I apologise. It is working now. There is a drop-down menu that starts off with GCN, but if you click on it there is the option to select GMBN Tech. Thank you! ☺
#askgmbntech - My actual bike is Trek Rail with Shimano 12sp drivetrain SLX / XT mix... can I use SRAM GX EAGLE 12sp chain? I have one spare at home from my previous bike.
Anna feels old when she thinks about what she was riding in 2004. Yesterday I was thinking about my first full adult-sized bike. The 1958 Schwinn Hornet. Now I feel old. I better get out on my full-suspension mountain bike and pretend I am young again.
why has xc changed so much? (not for the better imo) In a monetary economy manufacturers have to constantly re invent the wheel in order to stay relevant and sell their units so what's available today is just economic cope combined with marketing. IMO the peak of xc mtb tech reached it's zenith approx 15 yrs ago where the geometry and smaller wheel size was perfect with 120mm forks and disc brakes. I haven't bought a brand new bike in 15 yrs as the geo and cramped cockpit, combined with big unwieldy wheels and the industries insistence that mtbr's are to granny ring everywhere has put me off, also the aesthetic of the current xc bikes are just not attractive so the next new bike I purchase will need to involve a frame builder and ebay to source the rims, shifters etc
Oh, the whining here. Who the hell died and put you in charge of deciding at what point bikes have to stop evolving. The notion that tech shouldn't have changed in 15 years is absurd. 29" wheels are awesome. You can comfortably roll over stuff.
@@richardhaselwood9478 I do agree with his complaints about “granny ringing everywhere” though. 1x has its advantages, but it lacks top end. The whole idea of “racing” is to go “fast”; and not having big gears when necessary kind of precludes that possibility. Sometimes going fast down non-technical fire roads requires a big gear to pedal.
@@keirfarnum6811 I do get where you are coming from. I'm certainly not interested in going 1x for my gravel bike for this reason. Indeed, last week on a gravel ride, my mate and I, both using GRX 2x10 were making a point that we had lower and higher ratios than an equivalent 1x setup. But, the market really has spoken. People don't want 2x MTB's. I doubt you're going to see 2x XC bikes making a comeback. Shimano, I think still sell front mech's for the MTB groupsets. This also isn't slowing down elite racers either.
What are your thoughts on the evolution of the XC bike?
The uploader link leads to the GCN channel.
If had started on a modern Downcountry bike 3 years ago, I would be still on one today instead of a gravel. I love my custom built gravel, but it would have saved me money, even with the cost of my custom built Enduro on top 😅
Lightness and the functioning of some mechanical components has improved, but not to any degree that a non- 'Nationals' level rider has any need of.
The rest is just capitalism and merchandising....
Anyone who could swing a leg over a well set up 2005 Turner Nitrous (for instance) and find it inadequate for XC type riding is riding on another level from mere mortals.
Not surprised to see Rich is still suffering from 'Torsional Polarity Syndrome'- it's probably irreversible in his case. ALL of the 'improvements' he lists are materials driven, and those- not based on absolute performance- are driven by manufacturers cost cutting. Everything on your Chinese wonder missile is flammable, brittle, and poured into a mold from a giant vat of goo.
In other news ( Shout out to the Don 😃) , Hank Djernis notoriously refused to ride full suss- he fitted all those Proflex bikes with dummy struts to lock the rear! Nino's ongoing battles with Scott to *not* ride their (admittedly pretty poor) fullies was only exceeded by the great Absalon- a hardtail man to the end. The man with the money calls the tune, eh?
They had to go full suspension/ even more off-road with XC Bikes to distinguish them from gravel bikes. Gravel bikes and the bigger tyre trend exist so you stop riding your 90s roadbike that can't fit those. All just a sales pitch. Also you gotta tell the roadie's that some comfort is fast otherwise you don't get new old rich people to pick up the hobby in the first place.
We need more XC content!
The Val Di Sol XC course was gnarly and that drop they were taking was nuts. I would have wanted an enduro bike to ride that. Speaking of Enduro, it really sucks that the UCI is covering EDR so poorly.
Still riding a hardtail, but now with a 120mm fork. I'm having fun and staying in shape. The cost of these rigs has become abusive.
Yes, but you have to be a wise shopper by finding bargains on eBay or Facebook.
12:32 C) FLIGHT ATTENDANT
They need to have a retro or vintage class for 26" riders. Modern geometry & new tech is phenomenal & truly much nicer to ride, but much like riding single speed there is just something spiritual & nostalgic about racing/riding old tech.
Running hardtail SS, and I don't care to change. My pocket thanks me!
A lot of XC races in my area have a "underbiked" class that are mostly retro bikes and they usually smash it!!!
Agreed... Until I got a ride on a new 27.5 norco storm ht and I could absolutely smash the trails compared to older bikes I usually ride
Nicely said.For that reason I have now 4 bikes.Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo from 2000 for example that I restored and so glad I did!
No 26” are done, and need to be never ridden again. The only thing that 26” wheels bring to the table is quickness in tight single track. I love my Salsa Timberjack single speed but it isn’t as “fun” as my old 26” Spot SS I rode 24 years ago. That bike was fun as hell, like riding a huge BMX bike.
I'm so glad for the modernization of XC bikes. My local XC race is adopting more wrinkles every year including adding a few rock features, a few additional jumps here and there, ect... I'm already pushing my 120/115 just riding that course.
Chicken or the egg though?
Showing my age but I miss the 90's craze for Onza bar ends.
With a Hite-Rite spring to change saddle height.
I hated all bar ends, especially the onza.
Now it's nostalgic so it's okay 😂
lm using bar ends on all my MBT bikes including full sus, cant ride with only 1 hands hold position on grips.
@@LaurentiusTriarius I loved those to protect my hands
I’m pissed they made them illegal for racing! It makes no sense whatsoever. They’re great for changing hand positions on long rides and they’re actually safer than potentially getting core sampled by the end of a handlebar.
I ride a 2013 Fuji SLM 2.0, added a dropper, but tubeless, single chainring never catch me. 30 psi on tires and platform pedals for life! Anna is gorgeous!
I have a Cannondale F2000 (the same frame type that Cannondale Volvo team used to win the World Champs in 2000 and 2001) with the Headshok suspension system (70mm). That bike was, in a way, ahead of its time but its old school sizing and geometry makes the bike handle very differently to a modern bike.
I am riding a trail frame with XC forks/shocks, XC tires and short handle bars. LOVE IT! Not close to be a pro but do well in local events...
I thought I'd like dark yellow Ergon grips....until I actually used them. Now I know why the pros usually stick to black. The yellow, and even orange, grips get so dirty by the end of a ride that you have to get an old toothbrush and clean them every time...and that's when you're now most tired. Alot of work for pretty. I eventually dumped the color and went back to black.
I think longer lower slacker is a fine line. I think we’ve reached the limit. I don’t want to see less than 66° head angles and my bottom bracket is already ridiculously low and pedal strikes are so annoying. The bikes are getting heavier, but I guess as long as we’re all getting heavier together that’s OK right?
I still have my fancy Scott scandium frame from back in the day but today I did a loop on my Scalpel SE and I don‘t miss the old times at all. It‘s such a good, capable bike. The only thing I miss from time to time is the big gears on the 3x chainset which would be handy to drop e-bikes.
That’s one thing that I have been wondering about. The lack of big gears is just nuts. If I was still racing these days, I would absolutely run a double ring up front so I could have some top end.
@@keirfarnum6811 I think races have changed as well. It‘s either steep uphill or technical downhill.
My 1989 Raleigh Peak is fully rigid and weighs 28 lbs. with XT. My Specialized Epic has full sus and xt 12 speed and 29" wheels and weighs 25 lbs. Huge improvement
Shim fiddling is scary but fun... I re-shined my 2018 RS super deluxe after fitting the high flow 'hotdog' piston which cures it's knocking problem
27.5 still lives and the victory proves it. I’m not sure why that’s so shocking to everyone. 29 is just too big and looks a bit like a circus bike. I really hope they never phase out 27.5
Horses for courses. Good to have options.
Hey don't knock my triple chain ring guys 😭
IMO it was obvious in 1992 that Full SUS would come to dominate in all forms of racing. I come from an off-road motorcycle racing background and understood perfectly well that SUSPENSION was the most important aspect of chassis performance; reduced crashes, less fatigue and better traction up, down and around. I bought a Cannondale Delta V1000 in 1992 and went faster overall except on the smoothest of terrain. Hardtails lasted so long because riders were stubborn and macho….
Quality MTB Content
With respect to the quiz it’s the rock shox flight attendant
I have a 2009 Specialized Epic. It came with 100/100mm travel, 29x1.9 tires on i18mm rims, 3x9 drivetrain, and road bike like geometry. The new Epic comes with 120/120mm travel, 1x12 drivetrain, 29x2.3 tires on i30mm rims, and progressive modern Trailbike geometry. I consider all these changes are for the better.
Except the 1x12. Not enough top end.
I still like riding the SC Blur from 2021.
The Spur is probably still the best XC/Downcountry bike ever made. However, the new Specialized Epic 8, Pivot Mach 4, and Yeti ASR might be nipping at it's heels.
I have switched to 2.4 tires, SID ultimate 130 fork and one up dropper. All good choices. ExpedoSpry pedals.
120 fork
"still"? As if 2021 was 30 years ago, not 3.
Also, Blur is what got reshaped into that new all-winning Pinarello Pidcock rides.
@@feedbackzaloop 2018-2021 had a VPP suspension. It’s a generation behind the current Blur.
C) Flight Attendant #quiz
BMW that work. LOOOOOL
Also LR used to belong to BMW before Ford
You have to stay on top of maintenance, I can attest car payment never end with BMWs 😅
wait, so the Charger 3.1 damper is only $75.00? I was looking to possibly install a Charger 2.1 damper in my Domain and it was around $275.00. If the 3.1 is compatible then I'll definitely go with that instead.
The answer is, flight attendant
Travis was on a double chainring back in 2000. Not triple. Trek Volkswagen!
C) flight attendant 12:28
#quiz c/ flight attendant
Uploader link just goes to the GCN TH-cam page
There is a drop-down menu that starts off with GCN, but if you click on it there is the option to select GMBN Tech. Thank you! ☺
So what is wrong about bikes 20 years ago again? 😲 That was back when we had 'yes tubes' vs Stan's 'no tubes.'
No plastic in the packaging but they came I a plastic sleeve. 😂
Xc has become trail bikes trail bikes have become enduro bikes and enduros are basically dh bikes . Dh is looking pointless. Its crazy. 10 years ago putting 140 mil on my stumpy was frowned on, now there all in that range
29er isnt the standard. Mullet is actually more common in my area. I ride mini mullet with one of my bike😂 fun as hell.
Mini-mullets! great way to extend the life of my 26er.
The 29/27.5 mullets in your area, are many upgrades of 27.5 frames?
Quiz answer, flight attendant
Flight Attendant :D
C) Flight attendant
A lot of these products being danced in front of the eyes of customers seem to be throw-away bikes. They seem to demand buyers get totally invested in the gravy train of buying, upgrading, changing, modifying, extensive maintenance, swapping for years to come.
Where's the bike that will last a decade with little fuss, little problems, longevity and reliability with only brake pads, tires, and a bit of lube? Sell us those kind of bikes.
C) Flight Attendant
you guys need to fix your uploader link because when i press on it it sends me to gcn youtube channel and i want you to show my bikes
If it was broken before, I apologise. It is working now. There is a drop-down menu that starts off with GCN, but if you click on it there is the option to select GMBN Tech. Thank you! ☺
#askgmbntech - My actual bike is Trek Rail with Shimano 12sp drivetrain SLX / XT mix... can I use SRAM GX EAGLE 12sp chain? I have one spare at home from my previous bike.
C flight attendant.
c) Flight Attendant
Anna feels old when she thinks about what she was riding in 2004. Yesterday I was thinking about my first full adult-sized bike. The 1958 Schwinn Hornet. Now I feel old. I better get out on my full-suspension mountain bike and pretend I am young again.
#quiz - you guys need to make it harder not easier - C) Flight Attendant
XC changed, yes…but lots of world cups riders are still running 100mm to 110 suspension and no dropper.
I do mostly xc type riding for 34 years and I dont have a dropper yet. Did go tubeless finally this year and loving it so far😅
@@johndef5075 you will love dropper too
the audio quality on this episode is really bad, somehow its both thin and muddy
I can perfectly understand her, but not him. He just talks too fast.
C
why has xc changed so much? (not for the better imo)
In a monetary economy manufacturers have to constantly re invent the wheel in order to stay relevant and sell their units so what's available today is just economic cope combined with marketing.
IMO the peak of xc mtb tech reached it's zenith approx 15 yrs ago where the geometry and smaller wheel size was perfect with 120mm forks and disc brakes.
I haven't bought a brand new bike in 15 yrs as the geo and cramped cockpit, combined with big unwieldy wheels and the industries insistence that mtbr's are to granny ring everywhere has put me off, also the aesthetic of the current xc bikes are just not attractive so the next new bike I purchase will need to involve a frame builder and ebay to source the rims, shifters etc
Oh, the whining here. Who the hell died and put you in charge of deciding at what point bikes have to stop evolving. The notion that tech shouldn't have changed in 15 years is absurd.
29" wheels are awesome. You can comfortably roll over stuff.
@@richardhaselwood9478
I do agree with his complaints about “granny ringing everywhere” though. 1x has its advantages, but it lacks top end. The whole idea of “racing” is to go “fast”; and not having big gears when necessary kind of precludes that possibility. Sometimes going fast down non-technical fire roads requires a big gear to pedal.
@@keirfarnum6811 I do get where you are coming from. I'm certainly not interested in going 1x for my gravel bike for this reason. Indeed, last week on a gravel ride, my mate and I, both using GRX 2x10 were making a point that we had lower and higher ratios than an equivalent 1x setup.
But, the market really has spoken. People don't want 2x MTB's. I doubt you're going to see 2x XC bikes making a comeback. Shimano, I think still sell front mech's for the MTB groupsets.
This also isn't slowing down elite racers either.
Categories are meaningless in light of technological innovation. There are almost no drawbacks to more travel and wider wheels.
Because it sells bikes
E bike midrive all the way !
I’m glad it’s changing. Last thing we want is a sport that has stagnated.
C