Fun fact: the Monza bankings in AC were laser-scanned by Kunos before they got resurfaced a few years ago. What this means is that the bankings in AC are the most historically realistic we will ever get as they were scanned in their original pavement, like they were back in the day.
The banks have not been resurfaced. They have had concrete added as patches where the track is crumbling. The supporting structures under the banking are looking much worse than the banking itself with the exception of the bridge which passes over the modern track. The AC "laser scanning" is LIDAR data from above, is accurate only to five centimetres and is scaled into 100cm blocks bisected to create 100~/100~/141~ triangles to keep data down, and widened to allow the original AI to cope - it is basically too smooth and too wide. Reiza actually did laser scan the track for AMS2 - hence the dimensions being accurate - it really is narrow in real life. Reiza also made the mesh much tighter which is revealed in the bumps. rf2's mesh should be good but they did not use any scanned data for the historic track so it does feel smoother than AMS2 but is bumpier than AC. That said, what is accurate? If you mean accurate around the time of the movie "Grand Prix" then we can never know. Back then there was no technology generally available to scan the track and no storage space large enough to hold the data! If anyone is lucky enough to visit Monza (do not miss out on the town and Milan near by), do walk on the banked track. You can access it with general admission. If you take your car, you can even drive around the modern track on a track day. That is if the multi-millionaires who moved the the beautiful town and forests near there over the last few years stop trying to close the track because "it's too noisy!"
@@bertram-raven wrong. A few years ago the entire surface of both bankings was redone. Yes it was only superficial, they weren't actually repaved from the ground up, but still the entirety of the original cement was covered and lines repainted. Kunos scanned the track back in 2012-2013, long before any of that work was carried out. As for Reiza, I don't know whether they actually scanned the track or not. I don't think so, given they never produced laser scanned tracks aside for those who actually provide the scannings themselves (Nords, Oulton, Brands, Snetterton). The bankings were reasonably large, enough for the cars back then. You can see that in pictures or even in the movie Grand Prix. Even Sportscars could race 2 sometimes even 3 wide.
Monza 1967 was an extraordinary Grand Prix. Jim Clark starting on pole and lead until lap 12 when he suffered a puncture and entered the pits in last place and a lap down. He spent the next 48 laps working his way back through the field to retake then lead and pull away to only run out of fuel on the last lap and end up coasting across the finish line in 3rd place. John Surtees wining over jack Brabham by less than a car length. I know most of you watching this will know this but I’ve had a few beers and lve always been a jim Clark fan 🤷🏻♂️
Ahhhh, Grand Prix Legends! Takes me back to a simpler time back at college where me and a few mates would come home on a break, smoke a bit of weed, switch on the PC and a bit of GPL, get the old joystick out, and crash.....A LOT! 😂
I love how GPL's cockpit is a bunch of sprites layered on top of each other in a way that simulates depth. It's so aesthetic, like a high-production value flash game.
ams2 at least tries to have some unpredictable behaviour instead of all of them acting like drones on a rail track. Although as of now that often falls flat on face as the entire lineup of cars crashes
@@abeidiot I find AMS2's AI pretty awful.It's not unusual for it's AI to fail spectacularly and not even be able to navigate itself through certain corners,resulting in an AI pile up. AC's AI is even worse. Even the likes of Forza Motorsport has vastly superior AI. I agree with the sentiment in the video that iRacing and GT7 have the best AI
Sad indeed. There are probably many reasons, for one making AI good is very difficult and resource intensive/taxing for the PC. Another reason is probably due to the focus being so much on online play that investing in AI tech and AI improvements isn't seen as worth it to just deliver a better offline experience. I doubt the return on investment will be worth it, spending huge amount of money on AI development and experts, which probably won't increase sales that much anyway. It's also not as marketable, every dev can claim their AI is good, but it is when you actually drive in them for many laps when you notice how good or bad they AI truly is, and this isn't necessarily detected by reviewers and early testing either. It's a bit sad because AI has made huge improvements the past 20 years in many other fields, but in gaming it has almost regressed in a way.
@@Skumtomten1 I think it's as you suggest,the focus has shifted more to online racing and developing quality AI is maybe considered a waste of a developers time and resources. The computing horse-power available now is far in excess of that available to sim racers of years gone by so it can only be the reason above.
After almost 3 decades of dreaming I got to visit Monza two weeks ago. The banking is just supreme. Will have a different take on it next time I drove a Sim around the banking.
Assetto Corsa will always be my absolute favorite. The FFB is not perfect but the best out of every Sim I ever played. I´m a Nordschleife kid since I´m a local and me and my friends who are mostly involved in the racing community are totally about AC and Iracing. I made mods for GTR Evolution back in the day. I helped with making the Karussel section (textures) till Brünnchen in PCARS 1 but that was unfortunately turned into a "Simcade" title, although they had the best FFB for at least 1 update. They could´ve taken the cake if Ian Bell wouldn´t have changed his direction of the physics team. They had such an advanced tyre system and it worked only for the Caterham, but it was crazy good. First and only time I could actually feel, not only front and back tyres working but also whenever a single tyre would freeze during braking.
I love all these sims, but for me iracing has that thing that makes you nervous before each race and you practice more and more to beat the faster guys online, the competition is just another level.
Furthermore, I would love to see a video on the IR-05's representation in sims, as I feel it is often left out of sims. So a best 2005-2011 Indycar sim.
This is more of a personal wishlist for AMS2 F1. but I would love to see: 1999 cars, officially licensed Brabham and Lotus from the 66 or 67 season (as they already have representation in the game) and maybe 2003 or 2007-08 cars
iRacing does have the combined version of Monza which includes the oval section as well. It comes in a version that includes the modern day chicanes and a version without the first and second chicanes. Would be closest to what you were running in the other sims, although it still has the modern Ascari to navigate.
@@AlienWooshie It is easy to forget some tracks do not have AI available. The reason is iRacing train the "AI" using laps by real people racing against each other. When they do not have a large enough sample to meet a minimum standard for racing against the "AI", iRacing will not allow AI racing for that specific track. This is certainly a very responsible attitude. Certainly, we can wish AI was available for practice, but as untrained "AI" is always poor there would be little benefit racing against it.
Cannot wait to try Sudschleife in AMS2! I love the complete season F1 skin mods & AI data for the formula cars in AMS2. Old variants of Silverstone Spa Monza are lovely. I do still keep coming back to RF2 most though, for the feeling rather than graphics. The old variations of Silverstone Spa Monaco & Monza (& the whole 88 season) are still great fun, if not quite up to the standard of the newest DLC.
Bonus game: Project Cars 2, has some historic tracks (monza, spa, hockenheim, le mans…) and a wide variety of classic race cars. In my opinion the best option for console players.
ahh GPL's done 1000's of laps of Monza... only ever won 2 seven lap races in full GP mode in Jacks Brabham (aussie here whoused to watch him live at Warwick Farm Tasman Series) the sense of elation of winning those 2 races was amazing... never lost the desire to try again
The time and effort you spend and give to your vids is very much appreciated. I just want to say thank you for all the work you do for us. As my granny would say 'God has a nice place for you when you get there' haha. Love, light and peace my true brother and love to all your viewers too. A lot of love. Free to those who can afford it, very expensive to those who can't. ❤ Edit to add old man opinion. Graphics. Let's be honest the the graphics are more than enough to immerse yourself in the game. In all these games. Let's be thankthful for what we got.
I still remember when GPLEA had a tent at Goodwood to demo GPL with all it's updates. They had Jackie Stewart have a go and his telling comment 'They were a lot easier in real life' took a lot of the gloss off the sim for me.
tbf that's how all sims are. For some reason, sim racers and devs always think "more difficult = more realistic". It was most apparent during the lockdowns - NASCAR drivers said iracing was way more difficult than the real cars, indycar drivers all said iracing was way more difficult than real life and the tires were not realistic at all, F1 drivers said the F1 games felt more realistic when traction control was turned on (despite real f1 cars not having TC in real life). It's even a thing in the modding scene. Whenever someone asks which studio made the best F1 mod for AC people always say "the RSS one is more difficult which makes it more realistic". It's a problem that has always plagued all consumer-level racing sims, not just GPL. The one and only exception I can think of was when Denny Hamlin used to practice on NR2003 and when he would hop in the car in real life, he said something like "all I could think of was 'woah, this feels just like the game'"
@@MrJohansen Fwiw having both RL amateur racing and sim racing experience going back to early GPL days I’d have to disagree. GPL was very limited by physics and grip feedback which nowadays is better and simplified to provide most casual racers to be more competitive at 10/10ths. Majority of sim racers race in high downforce current models and low speed corners are still far easier to take than in RL conditions. I don’t see much content/ focus with low grip cars and proper wet weather conditions and proper clutch simulation, which is a real shame imo.
I remember that story about Jacky. And I do feel he's right. As a GPL racer you get used to how they drive. But I really feel that the GPL cars in AC run much more realistic. I like AC's tyre-model very much. Is that blasphemy? As a fan of both sims I don't think so.
Excellent comparison! Lately, I find myself switching between rF2 and AMS2. In rF2, try turning AI aggression down to 5, drive a few races, then adjust slowly upward if needed. Even at 25, they will punt you off of the course. YMMV. BTW, these cars are amazing in VR!
If rF2 works anything like rF1, open the AIW file and alter AIBrakingStiffness to (0.9650, 0.9650, 0.9150) from the defaults. It was night and day for me. Now I can run with aggression at more like 65%.
Great video, but if you really want to share a historic F1 race and car set in RF2, I would highly recommend the F1 1975 cars in the rain at the historic 60’s Nurburgring. Fantastic mod and track where RF2 really shines. Btw: Funny how GPL crash damage modeling still is better than everything new… besides beam NG
I'd say the feeling of GPL is pretty good. I'm very bad at GPL but it's the sim, that makes me smile the most, some times even laugh out loud, when I get something right. I cant say anything about how realistic it feels. obviously but it feels good in my opinion. It's a joyful but sometimes frustrating (like mentioned, I'm really, really bad at it) experience.
While something feels very slightly wonky about it, I couldn't imagine not having it. For having random races against the AI, there's no other game with such variety. I easily play it the most. Essentially have to buy the DLC with all the big europe tracks though, Hockenheim monza etc. On a sidenote, it's easily the most realistic looking/best graphics/best running in VR. Assetto Corsa looks rough in VR, even with all the mods. ACC looks good, but I have a 4080 and I hear it runs bad on more mundane GPUs
@@hansolo631 Also It easily has the best casual muliplayer of any sim I've ever played. A simple invite to your friends, no searching around server lists and such. Amazing sim, gets better every day.
Great part for rfactor 2! However I have to ask are you making and using wisdom files? I for one do make them and for these cars and track it takes around ten minutes accelerated time which is about 1 1/2 hour real time. Very simple to do. After making the wisdom files I cannot even hang with them at 100% I'm down around 87% 50% aggression and have accidents set to 1.0 to keep it interesting. Even though there may be an accident or two. If I make any errors I find it a real challenge to stay in the top ten! Grid I use is default 20 for this group. A 45 minute race will absolutely get the blood pumping! The top 10 Ai cars are between 2:45 to 2:58 + - at these settings at 100 % they are 2:31 to 2:45 + - . on average if I stay on track I can do 2:50-2:59 + -. I feel a lot better with the Ai in rfactor 2 after learning how to make the wisdom files. Take for example Baku City 2023. Most every race had a pile up in town at the chicane but once the wisdom files were made they rarely get hung there if at all! I run a qualifying session which is important in RF2 so the faster cars get up ahead of the slower cars and I can wiggle my way in somewhere in the middle most of the time. I may end up anywhere at the finish for a 45-1 hour stint but am having a blast. Because the Ai is very competitive. I run the 2023 tracks and 2023 F1 and a F2 according to the real life schedule as well. If I have time next week I'm going to make a multi class setup on Sebring. Make the wisdom files for each class GT3 GTE and LMP and see how that goes. Thanks for your video.
Of the sims reviewed, I only have experience with AC and iRacing. I'm more of a vintage GT fan than GP fan, and for that I turn to PCars2. They have historic layouts for Le Mans, Spa, Monza, and Hockenheim as well as Rouen les Essarts.
I re downloaded RFactor 2 recently and I love the new UI and how much easier it is to get you controls set up. I could never get my wheel working before. I dont like the company who runs it so i wont be feeding them alot of money but I am enjoying the physics and the overall feel of the cars.
Just want to let you know I started out watching your vidsa few years ago and ended up buying a wheel and pedals. There is something cathartic about racing.
GPL was, is, and always will be, the Daddy. I sadly couldn’t get Jim Pearson’s wonderful Isle of Man TT Course to work on my PC so it was a gift to find it converted to RF2. The AI can’t keep up without crashing everywhere though (I’m not the fastest sim racer by any stretch, but I do have local knowledge as it is my commute to work). If only GPL had VR…
I really had to work on getting GPL tuned but once I got it, I never looked back. I loved that sim and all the mods. Racing online was simply incredible! These days I race Assetto Corsa on PlayStation 4 pro and have a Next Level Racing rig with Fanatec gear. I love it! :-)
I loved racing the Mazda MX-5 on iRacing months ago. You could drive that car on the different sims on the same track. I know Assetto Corsa and RaceRoom got that car
Thanks for the comparison. I need to get off the couch and set up a rig and this is a good introduction to the various sims. Sorry, I have to nitpick. Only GPL has period-correct driver's gloves. The others have modern gloves which to me, distracts from the immersion.
so awesome you created this ! wow will watch many many times i cannot wait until i can join this world myself seeing these sims and the ways one can mod them is already unreal and growing more each day speaking of thanks also for the updates on those when you mention them . oh and looooove the save in race 1 . skillz , much respect .
Really good approach. Personally, I don't have iracing and GPL, but own ao the others and that is because each one has its strengths. Great video as always. Cheers.
I love Assetto Corsa because of the sheer amount of vintage cars, tracks and really everything I can mod and how easy it is. I don't really care if iRacing has better physics or better opponents and a better online, I can literally download for free the whole calendar of GP 67 tracks, 10 vintage american tracks and fictional circuits inspired by the era and drive nearly every classic discipline I can think of (Group 5, 60's prototypes, Nascar 1971, Australian F5000, even Estonian single seaters from different eras). Nothing will ever beat Assetto on immersion, content and how easy it is to use it and how much time you can sink it. And thats without talking about entering league races
Nice review. Thanks for not fanboi'ing on anything. My preference of the bunch is Automobilista 2. There isn't too many tracks, and the content to choose from isn't as huge as Assetto Corsa, but the handling and image quality is much better for sure. Lotus 49's around Spa 1970 in Automobilista 2 feels somewhere between fun and suicidal.
Nice save there for you in the original GPL!! You know I love GPL, where it all started for me. I"hate" the engine sounds though in GPL which for me plays a big part in the immersion factor, sound is so much better in the newer sims. Monza was like the first track besides maybe an oval, that I learned, I think the "Automobilista 2" Monza is the best Monza track IMO. Nice and bumpy with the asphalt patches and imperfections. Some fiery crashes would be cool for the drama factor in sims, never have seen one I don't think. Was cool in the original GPL when an engine would pop and it would smoke.
Great video Jake, AC is my go to and I when I find a car / track combo where I’m much faster than the AI I add some restrictor to limit my top speed at WOT and add some ballast to limit acceleration and cornering speeds. Can take a bit of messing around but I have a few saved presets that give some really nicely balanced races.
Beautiful video and its stuff like this to point out the flaws and ups of each sim, is the best way to fight fanboy's in the hobby, so much great choice out there its only limiting ones self to stick to a single platform.
I'd love a modern take on a historical sim like GPL. There's so much to GPL that you just don't see in a modern game modded to have old cars/tracks. For example, you didn't _know_ what flags were out on the current state of the track until you passed by a marshal waving yellow or green. No team radios, no magic HUD flags; nothing. That's a detail that just isn't in modern sims, where you'll be lucky if they even bothered to add flagmen to at all (or flags in general in Assetto's case). Imagine a modern-day game with classic tracks like '60s Nordschleife and Spa, long AVUS, Pescara, and brick Indianapolis, or even a true 1930s Monza (which, to my knowledge, doesn't properly exist yet in _any_ sim).
Talking about what makes rFactor2 feel so good - for me it's that you can feel the tyres squirm under you. No other sim does that, but goddammit does it resist you getting to actually drive it
I've always been itching to get into some vintage racing stuff man, been wanting to run the rss F1 1970s mod in a league like setting. those animated fuel lines still get me revved up man
IMO, you cannot beat TOCA and TOCA 2. You had to get everything right or you have no chance of winning or off the track you go. Would love to see a remake of either of those.
I was surprised when you said the car drives really similar in most of the games. Of these, I only have AMS 2 and AC, and I remember the car being way less lively in AMS 2. Definitely could be that it was changed in an update after I last drove it though.
when i got GPL in maybe 1999 i couldnt believe how hard it was, and I had to spend £400 upgrading my PC to be able to run all the graphics and full frame rate. but when i learned to drive it i was so satisfying. and i learned on a joystick. forward to go and back to brake. i actually got quicker times on the joystick than i did when i moved on to wheel and pedals.then unfortunately my later computers simply wouldn't run the game so i stopped playing. getting a ps3 later never gave me the satisfaction that gpl did.
i thought iR has the Monza with the oval combined... but probably not AI ready? ... the oval bit was scanned as well... so you could compare if its too narrow at ams2. ;-)
Your liver must be very cheap. Lol. Under $10 a month - that's not even a big Mac meal. Hardly prohibitively expensive. But, only really worth it if you're playing online, as that is what you're really paying for.
@@RacingAnt I'd agree with you if the subscription is all you have to pay, and it's 13 bucks (not 10), but on top of that you have to spend AT LEAST 10$ more, if not 15, for any and each car or track you want to buy. It's unacceptable. The latest Assetto Corsa Competizione DLC just released costs 12€ and you get 3 new cars and a new track. Can't even compare
@@8Tarkus8 iRacing is $110 per year. Get the renewal on black Friday is 20% off, so $88, or $7.50 a month. So, not a life changing sum. Yep, $15 a track. Again, not life changing. Yes, AC is cheaper, but doesn't have 24x7 online, ranked, populated, open lobbies in 100 different classes. So, iRacing is unique, and good value if it offers you what you want. As in the opening comment, there is no best sim. I wouldn't pay for iRacing for AI racing. But, online, non-league? It gives me what I want.
@@RacingAnt The problem is tracks and cars also add up fast and I've been a member since 2008 beta so get a discount with every new car or track but it still adds up. If they had a really good career mode for offline it might be worth it as the AI is really good but it gets a bit much to run a random AI race now and again.
Really nice comparison. It's amazing to me how well GPL holds up when directly compared to sims 20+ years more modern. It's good that RF2 has such great physics because its circuit graphics are in my view no more impressive than GPL and in some areas worse. AC and AMS2 clearly are an improvement visually and in physics over GPL, I really need to try getting AMS2 to work with the G29 FFB again. For iRacing, maybe it was because of the more modern Monza without banking but it looks very smooth, technically impressive but just dull and lacking sense of danger for me.
Some of my favorite offline racing in AC has been in the Lotus 25/49/72 and Ferrari 312/312T at the Nordschleife. It's a shame no sim has had a realistic historic version of the track, and I'm assuming given how hard it is to find accurate maps from before the two big rounds of modifications they made in the 70's that we'll never have one, which is sad.
Yeah, I can't wait to try it. Pretty sure it's after the first renovation but before the second one though? I'd really like to see what Kallenhard was like before they put that left/right chicane part right before it. Edit: Hm, apparently the "chicane" between Metzgesfeld and Kallenhard was added in 1973, so hopefully their 1971 version won't have it. All of the "60's Nordschleife" mods I've ever seen have the 1973 changes in them for some reason.
Fun fact: the Monza bankings in AC were laser-scanned by Kunos before they got resurfaced a few years ago. What this means is that the bankings in AC are the most historically realistic we will ever get as they were scanned in their original pavement, like they were back in the day.
That’s only assuming the banking hasn’t severely eroded and degraded by the time the laser scan happened.
The banks have not been resurfaced. They have had concrete added as patches where the track is crumbling. The supporting structures under the banking are looking much worse than the banking itself with the exception of the bridge which passes over the modern track.
The AC "laser scanning" is LIDAR data from above, is accurate only to five centimetres and is scaled into 100cm blocks bisected to create 100~/100~/141~ triangles to keep data down, and widened to allow the original AI to cope - it is basically too smooth and too wide. Reiza actually did laser scan the track for AMS2 - hence the dimensions being accurate - it really is narrow in real life. Reiza also made the mesh much tighter which is revealed in the bumps. rf2's mesh should be good but they did not use any scanned data for the historic track so it does feel smoother than AMS2 but is bumpier than AC.
That said, what is accurate? If you mean accurate around the time of the movie "Grand Prix" then we can never know. Back then there was no technology generally available to scan the track and no storage space large enough to hold the data!
If anyone is lucky enough to visit Monza (do not miss out on the town and Milan near by), do walk on the banked track. You can access it with general admission.
If you take your car, you can even drive around the modern track on a track day. That is if the multi-millionaires who moved the the beautiful town and forests near there over the last few years stop trying to close the track because "it's too noisy!"
@@bertram-raven wrong. A few years ago the entire surface of both bankings was redone. Yes it was only superficial, they weren't actually repaved from the ground up, but still the entirety of the original cement was covered and lines repainted.
Kunos scanned the track back in 2012-2013, long before any of that work was carried out.
As for Reiza, I don't know whether they actually scanned the track or not. I don't think so, given they never produced laser scanned tracks aside for those who actually provide the scannings themselves (Nords, Oulton, Brands, Snetterton). The bankings were reasonably large, enough for the cars back then. You can see that in pictures or even in the movie Grand Prix. Even Sportscars could race 2 sometimes even 3 wide.
Is that fun?
@@vvdv3444 yup, bumps bring immersion
Monza 1967 was an extraordinary Grand Prix. Jim Clark starting on pole and lead until lap 12 when he suffered a puncture and entered the pits in last place and a lap down. He spent the next 48 laps working his way back through the field to retake then lead and pull away to only run out of fuel on the last lap and end up coasting across the finish line in 3rd place. John Surtees wining over jack Brabham by less than a car length. I know most of you watching this will know this but I’ve had a few beers and lve always been a jim Clark fan 🤷🏻♂️
The way this channel has grown makes me so happy. Remember when you were at 3.5k subs and doing the 1955 season. Congratulations!
1955 Season was amazing!
@@riderofthemark6661 The way it came down to who had the most 3rd place finishes was fricking nuts.
much agreed !
Grown in a huge amount of advertising clips. :-( Its a pity because its for the rest a great channel, only not watchable for me any more.
@@halloyoutubers7047 and yet here you are commenting on a video you presumably aren’t watching? 😂
An excellent comparison between the various sims.
As someone who values (historical) immersion GPL is simply the to-go-to for me.
GPL: the original and still the best. I like Assetto Corsa, but I have very little free time for simracing so I focus on GPL.
Ahhhh, Grand Prix Legends! Takes me back to a simpler time back at college where me and a few mates would come home on a break, smoke a bit of weed, switch on the PC and a bit of GPL, get the old joystick out, and crash.....A LOT! 😂
Uh! So YOU were those guys on VROC driving and crashing around like they were high on something 18-20 years ago???? I salute you! ;-)
@@mellilore most likely 😂😂 playing on a joystick was hardcore!
driving the lotus 49 in AC is my favourite sim racing experience so far
Same, but I prefer the Ferrari 312/67 :D
You are an incredible TH-camr. Thanks for being around.
GP Legends is the King still. Is pure and brutal. Everytime i finish a race i feel like i was in a cage fighting.
I love how GPL's cockpit is a bunch of sprites layered on top of each other in a way that simulates depth. It's so aesthetic, like a high-production value flash game.
What's amazing and kinda sad at the same time is, that watching over 20 years of racing sims the AI hasn't improved much (if it improved at all).
Yep.
ams2 at least tries to have some unpredictable behaviour instead of all of them acting like drones on a rail track. Although as of now that often falls flat on face as the entire lineup of cars crashes
@@abeidiot I find AMS2's AI pretty awful.It's not unusual for it's AI to fail spectacularly and not even be able to navigate itself through certain corners,resulting in an AI pile up.
AC's AI is even worse.
Even the likes of Forza Motorsport has vastly superior AI.
I agree with the sentiment in the video that iRacing and GT7 have the best AI
Sad indeed. There are probably many reasons, for one making AI good is very difficult and resource intensive/taxing for the PC. Another reason is probably due to the focus being so much on online play that investing in AI tech and AI improvements isn't seen as worth it to just deliver a better offline experience. I doubt the return on investment will be worth it, spending huge amount of money on AI development and experts, which probably won't increase sales that much anyway. It's also not as marketable, every dev can claim their AI is good, but it is when you actually drive in them for many laps when you notice how good or bad they AI truly is, and this isn't necessarily detected by reviewers and early testing either. It's a bit sad because AI has made huge improvements the past 20 years in many other fields, but in gaming it has almost regressed in a way.
@@Skumtomten1 I think it's as you suggest,the focus has shifted more to online racing and developing quality AI is maybe considered a waste of a developers time and resources.
The computing horse-power available now is far in excess of that available to sim racers of years gone by so it can only be the reason above.
After almost 3 decades of dreaming I got to visit Monza two weeks ago. The banking is just supreme. Will have a different take on it next time I drove a Sim around the banking.
Assetto Corsa will always be my absolute favorite. The FFB is not perfect but the best out of every Sim I ever played. I´m a Nordschleife kid since I´m a local and me and my friends who are mostly involved in the racing community are totally about AC and Iracing. I made mods for GTR Evolution back in the day. I helped with making the Karussel section (textures) till Brünnchen in PCARS 1 but that was unfortunately turned into a "Simcade" title, although they had the best FFB for at least 1 update. They could´ve taken the cake if Ian Bell wouldn´t have changed his direction of the physics team. They had such an advanced tyre system and it worked only for the Caterham, but it was crazy good. First and only time I could actually feel, not only front and back tyres working but also whenever a single tyre would freeze during braking.
Cool story!
pC were a joke, but spirit lives in AMS2 now (pC2 engine). I keep it for guests, while secretly torture myself with rF2 )
geoff crammond grand prix was my first love, the GPL came along! Nowadays I'm into VR, I will have to try these races
I love all these sims, but for me iracing has that thing that makes you nervous before each race and you practice more and more to beat the faster guys online, the competition is just another level.
iRacing certainly has the best "AI". It should have considering iRacing has billions of laps by real people to train their AI.
You're officially my new favourite TH-cam channel. Superb content.
I remember playing GPL back when it first came out (1998). I gave up eventually; it was just too hard. I had a Logitech Driving Force wheel back then.
Also I would love to see a best CART sim, comparing AMS2, AC, rFactor 2, etc.
I Second this!
I also would add AMS1 and rF1
1995 and 1998 because why not
Furthermore, I would love to see a video on the IR-05's representation in sims, as I feel it is often left out of sims. So a best 2005-2011 Indycar sim.
@@n1tro_rl Me too! I love that car, very nostalgic for me, especially the 2010 and 2011 seasons (RIP Dan)
This is more of a personal wishlist for AMS2 F1. but I would love to see:
1999 cars, officially licensed Brabham and Lotus from the 66 or 67 season (as they already have representation in the game) and maybe 2003 or 2007-08 cars
yes please! throw in Project Cars 2, and do a VR special
These have to be the most interesting simracing videos I've ever seen! Thank you for teaching us so much about the history of this sport :D
iRacing does have the combined version of Monza which includes the oval section as well. It comes in a version that includes the modern day chicanes and a version without the first and second chicanes. Would be closest to what you were running in the other sims, although it still has the modern Ascari to navigate.
Monza oval section is not available against AI.
@@arride4590 Apologies. I admit I didn't confirm whether it had AI support before I posted. Thank you for clarifying 😊
@@AlienWooshie It is easy to forget some tracks do not have AI available. The reason is iRacing train the "AI" using laps by real people racing against each other. When they do not have a large enough sample to meet a minimum standard for racing against the "AI", iRacing will not allow AI racing for that specific track. This is certainly a very responsible attitude. Certainly, we can wish AI was available for practice, but as untrained "AI" is always poor there would be little benefit racing against it.
Cannot wait to try Sudschleife in AMS2! I love the complete season F1 skin mods & AI data for the formula cars in AMS2. Old variants of Silverstone Spa Monza are lovely.
I do still keep coming back to RF2 most though, for the feeling rather than graphics. The old variations of Silverstone Spa Monaco & Monza (& the whole 88 season) are still great fun, if not quite up to the standard of the newest DLC.
So, perfect sim...The history of GPL, physics of RF2, audio of Assetto Corsa, graphics of AMS2, and community of Iracing.
I would change it to "modding of Assetto Corsa" and add "audio of Raceroom Racing Experience".
This is a huge help! I'm planning on getting back into Sim racing and I'm clueless as to whats out there now. Awesome!
Bonus game: Project Cars 2, has some historic tracks (monza, spa, hockenheim, le mans…) and a wide variety of classic race cars. In my opinion the best option for console players.
Agreed!
ahh GPL's done 1000's of laps of Monza... only ever won 2 seven lap races in full GP mode in Jacks Brabham (aussie here whoused to watch him live at Warwick Farm Tasman Series) the sense of elation of winning those 2 races was amazing... never lost the desire to try again
Does the iRacing experience include the bots DMing you after the race chastising you for an incident that the replay shows you weren’t at fault for?
The time and effort you spend and give to your vids is very much appreciated. I just want to say thank you for all the work you do for us. As my granny would say 'God has a nice place for you when you get there' haha. Love, light and peace my true brother and love to all your viewers too. A lot of love. Free to those who can afford it, very expensive to those who can't. ❤ Edit to add old man opinion. Graphics. Let's be honest the the graphics are more than enough to immerse yourself in the game. In all these games. Let's be thankthful for what we got.
sometime, in the future, I would to team up with other modders and make proper 1967 season cars and even tracks. Pessio Garage here!
I still remember when GPLEA had a tent at Goodwood to demo GPL with all it's updates.
They had Jackie Stewart have a go and his telling comment 'They were a lot easier in real life'
took a lot of the gloss off the sim for me.
tbf that's how all sims are. For some reason, sim racers and devs always think "more difficult = more realistic". It was most apparent during the lockdowns - NASCAR drivers said iracing was way more difficult than the real cars, indycar drivers all said iracing was way more difficult than real life and the tires were not realistic at all, F1 drivers said the F1 games felt more realistic when traction control was turned on (despite real f1 cars not having TC in real life).
It's even a thing in the modding scene. Whenever someone asks which studio made the best F1 mod for AC people always say "the RSS one is more difficult which makes it more realistic".
It's a problem that has always plagued all consumer-level racing sims, not just GPL. The one and only exception I can think of was when Denny Hamlin used to practice on NR2003 and when he would hop in the car in real life, he said something like "all I could think of was 'woah, this feels just like the game'"
@@MrJohansen Fwiw having both RL amateur racing and sim racing experience going back to early GPL days I’d have to disagree. GPL was very limited by physics and grip feedback which nowadays is better and simplified to provide most casual racers to be more competitive at 10/10ths. Majority of sim racers race in high downforce current models and low speed corners are still far easier to take than in RL conditions. I don’t see much content/ focus with low grip cars and proper wet weather conditions and proper clutch simulation, which is a real shame imo.
I remember that story about Jacky. And I do feel he's right. As a GPL racer you get used to how they drive. But I really feel that the GPL cars in AC run much more realistic. I like AC's tyre-model very much. Is that blasphemy? As a fan of both sims I don't think so.
Excellent comparison! Lately, I find myself switching between rF2 and AMS2. In rF2, try turning AI aggression down to 5, drive a few races, then adjust slowly upward if needed. Even at 25, they will punt you off of the course. YMMV. BTW, these cars are amazing in VR!
If rF2 works anything like rF1, open the AIW file and alter AIBrakingStiffness to (0.9650, 0.9650, 0.9150) from the defaults.
It was night and day for me. Now I can run with aggression at more like 65%.
Both titles are blast in VR for sure. AI in rF2 is blind, but at least it dives predictable physics.
Same here. Constantly switching from rfactor 2 to ams2 from day to day in vr.
Great video, but if you really want to share a historic F1 race and car set in RF2, I would highly recommend the F1 1975 cars in the rain at the historic 60’s Nurburgring. Fantastic mod and track where RF2 really shines. Btw: Funny how GPL crash damage modeling still is better than everything new… besides beam NG
44:16 An outtake at the end of the video every once in a while could be fun.
I'd say the feeling of GPL is pretty good. I'm very bad at GPL but it's the sim, that makes me smile the most, some times even laugh out loud, when I get something right. I cant say anything about how realistic it feels. obviously but it feels good in my opinion. It's a joyful but sometimes frustrating (like mentioned, I'm really, really bad at it) experience.
I have thousands of hours in gpl, especially in the 90s and early 2000s, hard to beat for historic atmosphere.
Great vid as usual, I just miss AMS1, the track and the F1 legends mod showcased in rF2 is available there too
Excellent video GpLaps. Excellent one.
This is exactly the video I was looking for, thinking about getting AMS2, and you have come up with the goods again
While something feels very slightly wonky about it, I couldn't imagine not having it. For having random races against the AI, there's no other game with such variety. I easily play it the most. Essentially have to buy the DLC with all the big europe tracks though, Hockenheim monza etc.
On a sidenote, it's easily the most realistic looking/best graphics/best running in VR. Assetto Corsa looks rough in VR, even with all the mods. ACC looks good, but I have a 4080 and I hear it runs bad on more mundane GPUs
@@hansolo631 Also It easily has the best casual muliplayer of any sim I've ever played. A simple invite to your friends, no searching around server lists and such. Amazing sim, gets better every day.
Great part for rfactor 2! However I have to ask are you making and using wisdom files? I for one do make them and for these cars and track it takes around ten minutes accelerated time which is about 1 1/2 hour real time. Very simple to do. After making the wisdom files I cannot even hang with them at 100% I'm down around 87% 50% aggression and have accidents set to 1.0 to keep it interesting. Even though there may be an accident or two. If I make any errors I find it a real challenge to stay in the top ten! Grid I use is default 20 for this group. A 45 minute race will absolutely get the blood pumping! The top 10 Ai cars are between 2:45 to 2:58 + - at these settings at 100 % they are 2:31 to 2:45 + - . on average if I stay on track I can do 2:50-2:59 + -. I feel a lot better with the Ai in rfactor 2 after learning how to make the wisdom files. Take for example Baku City 2023. Most every race had a pile up in town at the chicane but once the wisdom files were made they rarely get hung there if at all! I run a qualifying session which is important in RF2 so the faster cars get up ahead of the slower cars and I can wiggle my way in somewhere in the middle most of the time. I may end up anywhere at the finish for a 45-1 hour stint but am having a blast. Because the Ai is very competitive. I run the 2023 tracks and 2023 F1 and a F2 according to the real life schedule as well. If I have time next week I'm going to make a multi class setup on Sebring. Make the wisdom files for each class GT3 GTE and LMP and see how that goes. Thanks for your video.
Of the sims reviewed, I only have experience with AC and iRacing. I'm more of a vintage GT fan than GP fan, and for that I turn to PCars2. They have historic layouts for Le Mans, Spa, Monza, and Hockenheim as well as Rouen les Essarts.
Jochen Rindt, Jackie Stewart, Holmes ... that brings back memories...!
Love your videos man. Whenever I get the notification for your videos it truly makes my day better!
I re downloaded RFactor 2 recently and I love the new UI and how much easier it is to get you controls set up. I could never get my wheel working before. I dont like the company who runs it so i wont be feeding them alot of money but I am enjoying the physics and the overall feel of the cars.
Just want to let you know I started out watching your vidsa few years ago and ended up buying a wheel and pedals. There is something cathartic about racing.
Great video buddy! Just getting back into sim racing so this video was great to see. Love your knowledge of the sport. Subscribed!
GPL was, is, and always will be, the Daddy. I sadly couldn’t get Jim Pearson’s wonderful Isle of Man TT Course to work on my PC so it was a gift to find it converted to RF2. The AI can’t keep up without crashing everywhere though (I’m not the fastest sim racer by any stretch, but I do have local knowledge as it is my commute to work). If only GPL had VR…
Happy new year to you. Keep up the great work.
i would say PC2 has a nice range of classic f1 cars (exclusively lotus) and classic cars including:
GT
LMP
STREET
I really had to work on getting GPL tuned but once I got it, I never looked back. I loved that sim and all the mods. Racing online was simply incredible! These days I race Assetto Corsa on PlayStation 4 pro and have a Next Level Racing rig with Fanatec gear. I love it! :-)
I loved racing the Mazda MX-5 on iRacing months ago. You could drive that car on the different sims on the same track. I know Assetto Corsa and RaceRoom got that car
Thanks for giving love to RF2! It s my most beloved sim. For how bad it is, it s amazing when in works really well. And lately is more good than bad
Thanks for the comparison. I need to get off the couch and set up a rig and this is a good introduction to the various sims.
Sorry, I have to nitpick. Only GPL has period-correct driver's gloves. The others have modern gloves which to me, distracts from the immersion.
It's so noticeable that only iRacing doesn't have animations for shifting gears.
rFactor 2 is also missing those
so awesome you created this ! wow will watch many many times i cannot wait until i can join this world myself seeing these sims and the ways one can mod them is already unreal and growing more each day speaking of thanks also for the updates on those when you mention them . oh and looooove the save in race 1 . skillz , much respect .
Iracing does have the banking layout - but unfortunately not with the AI yet.
Always wanted these comparisons, great work! Next the Lotus 79? or brabham BT44
IRacing does have historic Monza layout, but it might be unavailable for AI racing.
" There's no best sim " out of all the content creators out there it's refreshing to hear that statement because it's true, fabulous video too 👍
Iracing does have historic monza. It's one of the layout options.
I think he meant historic Monza doesn't have ai enabled
@@cookieyy18 that makes sense
Thank you very much. Just what I expected. I will watch this with great attention. 😀
Really good approach. Personally, I don't have iracing and GPL, but own ao the others and that is because each one has its strengths. Great video as always. Cheers.
Underrated channel. Thank you Jake for the amazing work.
Wish i could do this type of vintage racing in console but you know console has its limits.
I grew out of computer games while waiting for someone to make a sim of La Carrera Panamericana.
one of my favourite all time youtube videos - and that's saying something
Is it worth revisiting this video as I think apart from GPL, almost all the others have had updates/ new mods(?), especially AMS2.
I love Assetto Corsa because of the sheer amount of vintage cars, tracks and really everything I can mod and how easy it is. I don't really care if iRacing has better physics or better opponents and a better online, I can literally download for free the whole calendar of GP 67 tracks, 10 vintage american tracks and fictional circuits inspired by the era and drive nearly every classic discipline I can think of (Group 5, 60's prototypes, Nascar 1971, Australian F5000, even Estonian single seaters from different eras). Nothing will ever beat Assetto on immersion, content and how easy it is to use it and how much time you can sink it. And thats without talking about entering league races
The Estonias are so much fun!
Nice review. Thanks for not fanboi'ing on anything.
My preference of the bunch is Automobilista 2. There isn't too many tracks, and the content to choose from isn't as huge as Assetto Corsa, but the handling and image quality is much better for sure.
Lotus 49's around Spa 1970 in Automobilista 2 feels somewhere between fun and suicidal.
How do I get eyes as blue as yours?
You could start by buying him a drink!
Nice save there for you in the original GPL!!
You know I love GPL, where it all started for me. I"hate" the engine sounds though in GPL which for me plays a big part in the immersion factor, sound is so much better in the newer sims.
Monza was like the first track besides maybe an oval, that I learned, I think the "Automobilista 2" Monza is the best Monza track IMO. Nice and bumpy with the asphalt patches and imperfections. Some fiery crashes would be cool for the drama factor in sims, never have seen one I don't think. Was cool in the original GPL when an engine would pop and it would smoke.
AMS2 has mechanical failures and you can see the AI spinning when their engines blow up sometimes!
Great video Jake, AC is my go to and I when I find a car / track combo where I’m much faster than the AI I add some restrictor to limit my top speed at WOT and add some ballast to limit acceleration and cornering speeds. Can take a bit of messing around but I have a few saved presets that give some really nicely balanced races.
Beautiful video and its stuff like this to point out the flaws and ups of each sim, is the best way to fight fanboy's in the hobby, so much great choice out there its only limiting ones self to stick to a single platform.
I'd love a modern take on a historical sim like GPL. There's so much to GPL that you just don't see in a modern game modded to have old cars/tracks. For example, you didn't _know_ what flags were out on the current state of the track until you passed by a marshal waving yellow or green. No team radios, no magic HUD flags; nothing. That's a detail that just isn't in modern sims, where you'll be lucky if they even bothered to add flagmen to at all (or flags in general in Assetto's case).
Imagine a modern-day game with classic tracks like '60s Nordschleife and Spa, long AVUS, Pescara, and brick Indianapolis, or even a true 1930s Monza (which, to my knowledge, doesn't properly exist yet in _any_ sim).
Talking about what makes rFactor2 feel so good - for me it's that you can feel the tyres squirm under you. No other sim does that, but goddammit does it resist you getting to actually drive it
its a good day when gplaps uploads
This is a great format, would love to see you do this multi game thing for some other combinations too
I've always been itching to get into some vintage racing stuff man, been wanting to run the rss F1 1970s mod in a league like setting. those animated fuel lines still get me revved up man
My favorite vintage racing sim was a mod, power and glory for GTR2.
IMO, you cannot beat TOCA and TOCA 2. You had to get everything right or you have no chance of winning or off the track you go. Would love to see a remake of either of those.
I was surprised when you said the car drives really similar in most of the games. Of these, I only have AMS 2 and AC, and I remember the car being way less lively in AMS 2. Definitely could be that it was changed in an update after I last drove it though.
when i got GPL in maybe 1999 i couldnt believe how hard it was, and I had to spend £400 upgrading my PC to be able to run all the graphics and full frame rate. but when i learned to drive it i was so satisfying. and i learned on a joystick. forward to go and back to brake. i actually got quicker times on the joystick than i did when i moved on to wheel and pedals.then unfortunately my later computers simply wouldn't run the game so i stopped playing. getting a ps3 later never gave me the satisfaction that gpl did.
Honestly, AC with Rf2 tyres would be amazing.
Combined with iRacing's AI, shame RF2 AI got ruined years ago.
Honestly I really wish iRacing had more historic content, I feel like if they did it properly it would be awesome
historic cars in iracing makes the issues with its tires even more obvious
I was gonna say you get what you pay for.... 🤣
I rediscover rfactor 1 for vintage mod 55,67,DRM tracks bremgarten, spa (rf2 quality)... i like retrogaming ;)
I love the Assetto Corsa - for me the best Racing game ever!! Greets from Cologne Germany
i thought iR has the Monza with the oval combined... but probably not AI ready? ... the oval bit was scanned as well... so you could compare if its too narrow at ams2. ;-)
For the record, I have relatively little interest in vintage racing. I just always watch because the quality of the content.
that was a very nice watch
Best sim racing channel out there. Many thanks for you efforts.
iRacing AI is phenomenal, consistent and well balanced.
A shame you have to sell your liver to play there
Your liver must be very cheap. Lol. Under $10 a month - that's not even a big Mac meal. Hardly prohibitively expensive. But, only really worth it if you're playing online, as that is what you're really paying for.
@@RacingAnt I'd agree with you if the subscription is all you have to pay, and it's 13 bucks (not 10), but on top of that you have to spend AT LEAST 10$ more, if not 15, for any and each car or track you want to buy. It's unacceptable.
The latest Assetto Corsa Competizione DLC just released costs 12€ and you get 3 new cars and a new track.
Can't even compare
@@8Tarkus8 iRacing is $110 per year. Get the renewal on black Friday is 20% off, so $88, or $7.50 a month. So, not a life changing sum. Yep, $15 a track. Again, not life changing.
Yes, AC is cheaper, but doesn't have 24x7 online, ranked, populated, open lobbies in 100 different classes. So, iRacing is unique, and good value if it offers you what you want. As in the opening comment, there is no best sim. I wouldn't pay for iRacing for AI racing. But, online, non-league? It gives me what I want.
@@RacingAnt The problem is tracks and cars also add up fast and I've been a member since 2008 beta so get a discount with every new car or track but it still adds up. If they had a really good career mode for offline it might be worth it as the AI is really good but it gets a bit much to run a random AI race now and again.
@@TwistLosi yep, 100% agree. AI is good, but iRacing is only worth it if you're main interest is online.
Any reason you're running rF2 without shadows? To me, the shadows add so much more to the immersion.
Really nice comparison. It's amazing to me how well GPL holds up when directly compared to sims 20+ years more modern. It's good that RF2 has such great physics because its circuit graphics are in my view no more impressive than GPL and in some areas worse. AC and AMS2 clearly are an improvement visually and in physics over GPL, I really need to try getting AMS2 to work with the G29 FFB again. For iRacing, maybe it was because of the more modern Monza without banking but it looks very smooth, technically impressive but just dull and lacking sense of danger for me.
I just had a thought, a Champ Car (CART) race on the monza oval would be frightning.
Excellent comparison. Thank you.
I'm amazed to see iRacing graphics looking the best of the bunch.
Thats just ams2 not being on max for sure. I racing looks ok but dated compared to ams2 which also is not that modern anymore.
Some of my favorite offline racing in AC has been in the Lotus 25/49/72 and Ferrari 312/312T at the Nordschleife. It's a shame no sim has had a realistic historic version of the track, and I'm assuming given how hard it is to find accurate maps from before the two big rounds of modifications they made in the 70's that we'll never have one, which is sad.
AMS 2 will have a historic Nordschleife very very soon (this weekend?).
Yeah, I can't wait to try it. Pretty sure it's after the first renovation but before the second one though? I'd really like to see what Kallenhard was like before they put that left/right chicane part right before it.
Edit: Hm, apparently the "chicane" between Metzgesfeld and Kallenhard was added in 1973, so hopefully their 1971 version won't have it. All of the "60's Nordschleife" mods I've ever seen have the 1973 changes in them for some reason.
I like vintage races, I love racing in vintage tracks, is a grat experience than modern races.
Probaly been mentioned, but iracings monza does have the (combined) oval in it, and a layout the drives through the 1st and 2nd (current) chicanes.
Hi, do you have a link for the Assetto Corsa Pitboard mod? many thanks in advance
Thanks a lot for this piece of content and for the running GPL on modern computers video! Very useful :)
The intro music is divine 🤩
Fantastic channel and vid. Do you have a hard time setting ffb up to be similar across the sims? My ac and ams2 feel really different in the same car.