It's CBN (cubic boron nitride) OR it's PCD (polycrystalline diamond), it's not "CBN diamond". They are 2 different materials. You're brave swinging such a large diameter cutter with a knee mill. Spindle bearings must be in good condition. Nice work. It's encouraging to see ingenuity overcoming the limitations of equipment.
A tool with a smaller radius will cut with much less pressure than the round cutter that acts more like a "wiper" insert which while effective needs a rigid setup. That said you'll have to run slower. If accuracy is everything and you're limited in the rigidity department sharp HSS will actually give you the lowest tool cutting pressure but you'll have to run painfully slow to keep the surface speed down to 50-100 fpm if memory serves me right. The damper is a cool touch even if the majority would consider it a bit wonky.
Friends dad was a top fuel and race engine builder / machinist. He had a STORM VULCAN. must have been a 20" head with a dozen or more carbide cutters. The head didn't spin fast, and the finish could not be had with a round cutter, the finish had a somewhat aggressive sharpness. I think the multiple cutters set up properly made the cut stable over bores and holes. Also, I think deck finish varies due to head gasket material... either way, if your spending that much time, you should be running o-ringed heads, or copper with sealed dry deck
I made a very heavy duty fly cutter for my Bridgeport. I’ve milled a ford aluminum head on my daughters truck no problem and a couple sbc heads no problem. I haven’t tried any blocks with the bi metals like you are doing. I just subscribed and will keep watching. Good luck! Oh I’m sure I’ll be doing more sbc heads since I have a race car with a pro charger. Not that I want to but it happens in this world lol
I love the cylinder dowel supports. It makes so much sense if you are going to resurface an open deck anyway, why not help it in any way that you can ? Regardless of what some might say, there are likely a bunch of home/backyard builders that would give up a kidney to have a machine like this for their homebrew junkyard LS Race Car program. Makes far more sense than a belt sander or a chunk of 2x4 wrapped in sandpaper or emery cloth. Nice setup.
I'm glad I found your channel. I'm looking to build or buy a fly cutter head to use CBN on my Bridgeport. I use a Van Norman 530 broach now but it doesn't leave a smooth enough RA for MLS gaskets. Thanks for the info brother, you saved me some money because I was just about to buy a fly cutter like you showed first. Great content, I think your channel is gonna grow and do great! Got my sub!
When I saw your dampening device I had to subscribe. I like the way you think. At first I wondered why that wheel was perpendicular then wondered if you could hydraulically dampen. I see some kind of level fluid on the whole cutter. (Of course you couldn't do that but I mean if you could...). I think of compound bow stabilizers etc.
The back cut may be in the table when it is at that particular point in the travel. I have three Bridgeport's, two of which are CNC controlled EZ-Traks. The table and saddles wear depending upon their history of use, the extreme limits of the travel on the tables usually have less wear, hence as the cutter comes across on the back cut it may be ever so slightly lifting the table at that point, think of it as if there was a sway in the table to saddle relationship over its range of travel. Good stuff using the equipment figuring creative methods for getting things done.
This!!! But I was also going to suggest that the whole knee and table assembly may be tilting slightly under the combined weight of itself and the workpiece.
I've been contemplating a large diameter cutter for my cnc bed mill and the flywheel/crank stub was exactly the direction I was leaning. I even have mitsubishi parts I plan to use!
As a machinist myself, i am confused by your statement of "dragging" on the back cut. You were correct on the perfect 90* spindle to table alignment but the tool is cutting or dusting the high spots on the back cut, not dragging. That crosshatch is typically what we want to see. Most modern 'high tech' cutters require a chipload to propperly cut though i have not used CBN yet, i assume there are the same min/max requirements for them and something to remember when skimming. All that said, i do NOT do blocks, heads etc so I don't understand why you wouldn't want that back cut and perfect flat surface. Blanchard grinding creates the same crosshatch and is proof of "flat" I do like your flywheel cutter ! I have a need for a larger flycutter and have a nice THICK dosc of cast iron ready to go but i also have a few junk flywheels laying around. 🤔 Fyi, i have 2 B.P mills, 3 Lathes, a Haas VF-1 Etc... and I run them all. Still learning everyday so comments are subject to change as my knowldge does.
Ive surfaced some blocks on a knee mill and I found that mine wanted to tip the table a few thousandths as the table traverses across from slight wear in the ways. My mill is much larger but I was surfacing a 6 cyl John Deere block. So the block ended up a few thousandths high in the center.
Ok, Your diameter of the wheel is fine, U need to incorporate at least 3 more cutter for the head for a total of 4, I have worked with a Block Master and they will hold 8/10 carbide cutters, depending on the size of the cutter head. Heck 1 extra cutter,would help fix your chattering problem, The cutter head U have in the video looks really nice, the only thing I would add is the thickness of the wheel, if at all possible that U could make the cutter head thicker by at least an 1 inch that would also help with deflection and chatter... Keep ON MACHINING BROTHER MAN YOUR FRIEND FROM NC J.PENNELL
Thanks great video I'm in Canada witch is becoming like Cuba no machine shops or engine builders we have to learn to do everything ourselves to keep our car going
The best price I can find is $300 to plane a head, nothing fancy - no valve job (I have a grinder). Last engine was 8N in 2008, guy charged $1800 to put 4 sleeves in and supply a kit. I did the assembly. 3800 Spun a rod on the crank, $1800 short block, I put the heads on in 2007. Fuck that. Motor $150 at Kenny Upull, Ford 8N $1500 running on facebook. There is a reason no machine shops are left.... after they are done screwing me I get shitty offshore parts that come back under warranty.
It's amazing that you have got CBN inserts to hold up to an interrupted cut, especially with different materials. I have built a fixture to hard turn heat treated flywheels with eccentric grooves for a cam follower. We use to use a tool post grinder to finish them, the problem I would run into was getting harmonics between cuts and one way to over come it was to vary the feed rates between cuts, but getting the warpage out of them to get a steady cut was challenging. We cut our finishing time from 2 hours of grinding down to 20 minutes, but those inserts are so brittle and expensive it was a real learning curve. I wonder how a VMN insert with that tiny corner radius would work, trouble is you only get one cutting surface per insert. Great video thanks for sharing your experience.
Great video. I also made my own milling head. It's for a Bridgeport series 1 (R8). I'm having some trouble with it that I'm trying to work through. I have PCD inserts for it that I'm making holders for now.
The holder is key. The engineering behind the angle the holder puts the cutter will make or break the your project. Pops knows the geometry, I don’t know them off the top of my head. If you want one of his for a RNGN we have our first batch being ran now. Should be done in a few weeks and I think they are under $100
@@kalamazooenginemachine th-cam.com/video/wKDystyps9U/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared That's what I have. If you think your dad's tool holder could work for me I'll probably buy 2. Do you have a link to them or any info?
The ringing while it’s cutting is an indication of vibration probably due to your inadequate welds creating imbalance of your flywheel. You need to weld it properly then turn it down on your lathe then your results improve greatly
I think that damper wheel is a good idea. If it works... How much pressure are you applying there? The tilting of the head... I do that sometimes, but 0.002 over 10"...I think would make more like 0.0005+/- over the width of the block. That takes clamping force off the gasket, the greatest effect being right where it is worst, the narrow area between the bores. An MLS head gasket might not like that, not too squishy like an old composite one. I got rid of my first 9x49 Bridgeport for a 10x54, mainly for the "x" travel (36") so that both sides of a fly cutter can pass fully over the gasket surface if I choose to run the spindle vertical. Works for some, depends on the head & cutter diameter. What kind of rpm/fpm is that? It looks kind of fast. I'm sure within what that insert will tolerate....just that some other speed might help the finish. You probably tried that, though. Maybe you could grind the insert to reduce its radius, to reduce force. Or try a brazed carbide cutter, but I grind inserts sometimes, works fine. Locking then"Y" and knee would stiffen it up a bit.
The ideal surface finish is NOT mirror smooth. You need enough roughness for the gaskets to grip but not so much they can leak. Production heads have a range of max and min surface roughness average (Ra).
Have you thought about changing the spindle bearing to angular contact bearings , get 4 of them and take out the spacer top bearing can be a standard sealed one.
I want to try something; there is a lot of backlash on the pulley keyway from what I can tell, so if I dig into it, I would want to try to upgrade anything I can to make it more rigid. Thanks for the comment 👍
just my observation, you need a beefier flywheel, yours is pretty thin and its singing. Tram the head for .002 tilt across 10" the amount of dish you are creating in the surface is unmeasurable, under a tenth across a 6" head. I surface heads daily on a BP and have zero issues. Sound is imortant, a PCD cutting .001" on aluminum head should be almost silent. Yours is really noisy.
Thanks Scott for the comment I appreciate it. On the tram I’m simply nervous to cup the deck so I have it bare min. On the thickness, I wanted more room on Z height and light weight, but I’ll probably redesign a FlyCutter again some day. Also that click noise is the key way in my drive pulley system and I need to dig around in there to find it. I think the key way can load and unload while I take heavy cuts so it needs addressed for sure.
@@kalamazooenginemachine my spindle key is sloppy as well, but the heavy flywheel effect will help a lot. What is your Dad getting for the .5” upsharp PCD? I would be interested in trying his CBN designed to cut aluminum with iron sleeves.
No. First of all there’s not enough work envelope on these machines. Meaning not enough x or y movement. Secondly, not enough height to the column. Three, even if you found a machine at anywhere near that price point, it couldn’t swing a large diameter cutter. Fifth is that it’s not going to be anywhere rigid enough. It would be cheaper to take it to a properly equipped engine shop and have them do it.
Been then done that , knee mill still have a bowe over the saddle in the X plane , also you need to make a solid mandrel for the tool & need a thicker flywheel for cutter , you will get a Harmonic pitch in tool if it designed like potato chip lol , what you have is a over engineer piece why over thought
Not clear on what is your spindle in this mill. Early on you show a ER collet. Most knee mills have a R-8, which, personally I feel are problematic with large radius cutters.
The first FlyCutter I show did have a ER32 collet which has too much flex for sure. I wanted to let viewers know not to go that route. The spindle this Index Mill has is a NMTB 30; which is about the same rigidity as a R8 shank Id think. I sacrificed thickness for lightness with this disc, but having it balanced on a crank balancer and adding the dampener wheel, after the engineered tooling, it’s cutting about as good as it can. Next is to eliminate that pesky noise in the pulley drive, possibly causing some amount of vibration; so maybe I can still improve the surface finish.
In my opinion, that shank on the triangle shaped cutter looks to be designed to use a Weldon style tool holder. They have a set screw on one side that is designed to hold on to the machined flat portion of the shank.
It's CBN (cubic boron nitride) OR it's PCD (polycrystalline diamond), it's not "CBN diamond". They are 2 different materials. You're brave swinging such a large diameter cutter with a knee mill. Spindle bearings must be in good condition. Nice work. It's encouraging to see ingenuity overcoming the limitations of equipment.
theoretically if you where to use a large brake rotor from a truck or semi to make the fly cutter, the cross section with help decrees deflection
A tool with a smaller radius will cut with much less pressure than the round cutter that acts more like a "wiper" insert which while effective needs a rigid setup. That said you'll have to run slower. If accuracy is everything and you're limited in the rigidity department sharp HSS will actually give you the lowest tool cutting pressure but you'll have to run painfully slow to keep the surface speed down to 50-100 fpm if memory serves me right. The damper is a cool touch even if the majority would consider it a bit wonky.
Friends dad was a top fuel and race engine builder / machinist. He had a STORM VULCAN. must have been a 20" head with a dozen or more carbide cutters. The head didn't spin fast, and the finish could not be had with a round cutter, the finish had a somewhat aggressive sharpness. I think the multiple cutters set up properly made the cut stable over bores and holes. Also, I think deck finish varies due to head gasket material...
either way, if your spending that much time, you should be running o-ringed heads, or copper with sealed dry deck
I made a very heavy duty fly cutter for my Bridgeport. I’ve milled a ford aluminum head on my daughters truck no problem and a couple sbc heads no problem. I haven’t tried any blocks with the bi metals like you are doing. I just subscribed and will keep watching. Good luck! Oh I’m sure I’ll be doing more sbc heads since I have a race car with a pro charger. Not that I want to but it happens in this world lol
Just curious where are you located?
I love the cylinder dowel supports. It makes so much sense if you are going to resurface an open deck anyway, why not help it in any way that you can ? Regardless of what some might say, there are likely a bunch of home/backyard builders that would give up a kidney to have a machine like this for their homebrew junkyard LS Race Car program. Makes far more sense than a belt sander or a chunk of 2x4 wrapped in sandpaper or emery cloth. Nice setup.
I'm glad I found your channel. I'm looking to build or buy a fly cutter head to use CBN on my Bridgeport. I use a Van Norman 530 broach now but it doesn't leave a smooth enough RA for MLS gaskets. Thanks for the info brother, you saved me some money because I was just about to buy a fly cutter like you showed first. Great content, I think your channel is gonna grow and do great! Got my sub!
When I saw your dampening device I had to subscribe. I like the way you think.
At first I wondered why that wheel was perpendicular then wondered if you could hydraulically dampen. I see some kind of level fluid on the whole cutter. (Of course you couldn't do that but I mean if you could...). I think of compound bow stabilizers etc.
The back cut may be in the table when it is at that particular point in the travel. I have three Bridgeport's, two of which are CNC controlled EZ-Traks. The table and saddles wear depending upon their history of use, the extreme limits of the travel on the tables usually have less wear, hence as the cutter comes across on the back cut it may be ever so slightly lifting the table at that point, think of it as if there was a sway in the table to saddle relationship over its range of travel. Good stuff using the equipment figuring creative methods for getting things done.
This!!! But I was also going to suggest that the whole knee and table assembly may be tilting slightly under the combined weight of itself and the workpiece.
I've been contemplating a large diameter cutter for my cnc bed mill and the flywheel/crank stub was exactly the direction I was leaning. I even have mitsubishi parts I plan to use!
As a machinist myself, i am confused by your statement of "dragging" on the back cut.
You were correct on the perfect 90* spindle to table alignment but the tool is cutting or dusting the high spots on the back cut, not dragging. That crosshatch is typically what we want to see.
Most modern 'high tech' cutters require a chipload to propperly cut though i have not used CBN yet, i assume there are the same min/max requirements for them and something to remember when skimming.
All that said, i do NOT do blocks, heads etc so I don't understand why you wouldn't want that back cut and perfect flat surface.
Blanchard grinding creates the same crosshatch and is proof of "flat"
I do like your flywheel cutter ! I have a need for a larger flycutter and have a nice THICK dosc of cast iron ready to go but i also have a few junk flywheels laying around. 🤔
Fyi, i have 2 B.P mills, 3 Lathes, a Haas VF-1 Etc... and I run them all. Still learning everyday so comments are subject to change as my knowldge does.
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 1:16 1:17 на Гоголя завтра зз
Ive surfaced some blocks on a knee mill and I found that mine wanted to tip the table a few thousandths as the table traverses across from slight wear in the ways. My mill is much larger but I was surfacing a 6 cyl John Deere block. So the block ended up a few thousandths high in the center.
Ok, Your diameter of the wheel is fine, U need to incorporate at least 3 more cutter for the head for a total of 4, I have worked with a Block Master and they will hold 8/10 carbide cutters, depending on the size of the cutter head. Heck 1 extra cutter,would help fix your chattering problem, The cutter head U have in the video looks really nice, the only thing I would add is the thickness of the wheel, if at all possible that U could make the cutter head thicker by at least an 1 inch that would also help with deflection and chatter... Keep ON MACHINING BROTHER MAN YOUR FRIEND FROM NC J.PENNELL
Thanks great video I'm in Canada witch is becoming like Cuba no machine shops or engine builders we have to learn to do everything ourselves to keep our car going
Plenty of us automotive machinists in my area and we all use dedicated block and head resurfacers
The best price I can find is $300 to plane a head, nothing fancy - no valve job (I have a grinder). Last engine was 8N in 2008, guy charged $1800 to put 4 sleeves in and supply a kit. I did the assembly. 3800 Spun a rod on the crank, $1800 short block, I put the heads on in 2007. Fuck that. Motor $150 at Kenny Upull, Ford 8N $1500 running on facebook. There is a reason no machine shops are left.... after they are done screwing me I get shitty offshore parts that come back under warranty.
It's amazing that you have got CBN inserts to hold up to an interrupted cut, especially with different materials. I have built a fixture to hard turn heat treated flywheels with eccentric grooves for a cam follower. We use to use a tool post grinder to finish them, the problem I would run into was getting harmonics between cuts and one way to over come it was to vary the feed rates between cuts, but getting the warpage out of them to get a steady cut was challenging. We cut our finishing time from 2 hours of grinding down to 20 minutes, but those inserts are so brittle and expensive it was a real learning curve. I wonder how a VMN insert with that tiny corner radius would work, trouble is you only get one cutting surface per insert. Great video thanks for sharing your experience.
www.performanceCBN.com - get ahold of pops we have the inserts and the holders and a new fly cutter on a CAT 40 for VMCs 🍻🤓👍 cheers
Great video. I also made my own milling head. It's for a Bridgeport series 1 (R8). I'm having some trouble with it that I'm trying to work through. I have PCD inserts for it that I'm making holders for now.
The holder is key. The engineering behind the angle the holder puts the cutter will make or break the your project. Pops knows the geometry, I don’t know them off the top of my head. If you want one of his for a RNGN we have our first batch being ran now. Should be done in a few weeks and I think they are under $100
@@kalamazooenginemachine th-cam.com/video/wKDystyps9U/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared That's what I have. If you think your dad's tool holder could work for me I'll probably buy 2. Do you have a link to them or any info?
Great information.
Where can I buy your tooling ?
The ringing while it’s cutting is an indication of vibration probably due to your inadequate welds creating imbalance of your flywheel. You need to weld it properly then turn it down on your lathe then your results improve greatly
I think that damper wheel is a good idea. If it works... How much pressure are you applying there?
The tilting of the head... I do that sometimes, but 0.002 over 10"...I think would make more like 0.0005+/- over the width of the block. That takes clamping force off the gasket, the greatest effect being right where it is worst, the narrow area between the bores. An MLS head gasket might not like that, not too squishy like an old composite one.
I got rid of my first 9x49 Bridgeport for a 10x54, mainly for the "x" travel (36") so that both sides of a fly cutter can pass fully over the gasket surface if I choose to run the spindle vertical. Works for some, depends on the head & cutter diameter.
What kind of rpm/fpm
is that? It looks kind of fast. I'm sure within what that insert will tolerate....just that some other speed might help the finish. You probably tried that, though. Maybe you could grind the insert to reduce its radius, to reduce force. Or try a brazed carbide cutter, but I grind inserts sometimes, works fine.
Locking then"Y" and knee would stiffen it up a bit.
That preload will cut a dome on top of anything you surface.
The ideal surface finish is NOT mirror smooth. You need enough roughness for the gaskets to grip but not so much they can leak. Production heads have a range of max and min surface roughness average (Ra).
Have you thought about changing the spindle bearing to angular contact bearings , get 4 of them and take out the spacer top bearing can be a standard sealed one.
I want to try something; there is a lot of backlash on the pulley keyway from what I can tell, so if I dig into it, I would want to try to upgrade anything I can to make it more rigid. Thanks for the comment 👍
It just occurred to me. If you're using a flywheel why not use a harmonic balancer?
Great info! Thanks!
just my observation, you need a beefier flywheel, yours is pretty thin and its singing. Tram the head for .002 tilt across 10" the amount of dish you are creating in the surface is unmeasurable, under a tenth across a 6" head. I surface heads daily on a BP and have zero issues. Sound is imortant, a PCD cutting .001" on aluminum head should be almost silent. Yours is really noisy.
Thanks Scott for the comment I appreciate it. On the tram I’m simply nervous to cup the deck so I have it bare min. On the thickness, I wanted more room on Z height and light weight, but I’ll probably redesign a FlyCutter again some day. Also that click noise is the key way in my drive pulley system and I need to dig around in there to find it. I think the key way can load and unload while I take heavy cuts so it needs addressed for sure.
@@kalamazooenginemachine my spindle key is sloppy as well, but the heavy flywheel effect will help a lot. What is your Dad getting for the .5” upsharp PCD? I would be interested in trying his CBN designed to cut aluminum with iron sleeves.
Fancy fly cutters cannot compensate for your spindle bearings being shot.
flywheel a great idea!
would a sharper edge on the insert help?
What ra did it end up in
need to go in the exact opposite direction with your insert geometry. you need a sharper corner(.015-.032) with a positive rake
3/8 round , negative rake for PCD and CBN; 6* positive rake for bi metal with CBN; I didn’t invent this, it’s industry standard rottler robins comec.
I would like to know if the Chinese kwik way or van Norman knockoff boring bars they sell on ebay are any count, anybody?
I’ve looked into them too; the boring bars on eBay. Used bars fetch a lot because there isn’t much competition in the boring bar game.
Great job
Trailing marks will NOT effect gasket seal negatively.,it will actually provide bite and help hold the gasket.
On asbestos based gaskets.On metal gaskets smoothness is key.
Hi, is any way to resurface my cylinder head with some cheap (~$1500) table milling machine?
No. First of all there’s not enough work envelope on these machines. Meaning not enough x or y movement. Secondly, not enough height to the column. Three, even if you found a machine at anywhere near that price point, it couldn’t swing a large diameter cutter. Fifth is that it’s not going to be anywhere rigid enough. It would be cheaper to take it to a properly equipped engine shop and have them do it.
Been then done that , knee mill still have a bowe over the saddle in the X plane , also you need to make a solid mandrel for the tool & need a thicker flywheel for cutter , you will get a Harmonic pitch in tool if it designed like potato chip lol , what you have is a over engineer piece why over thought
I want to see big ole grinder working lol
Pretty sweet
Not clear on what is your spindle in this mill. Early on you show a ER collet. Most knee mills have a R-8, which, personally I feel are problematic with large radius cutters.
The first FlyCutter I show did have a ER32 collet which has too much flex for sure. I wanted to let viewers know not to go that route. The spindle this Index Mill has is a NMTB 30; which is about the same rigidity as a R8 shank Id think. I sacrificed thickness for lightness with this disc, but having it balanced on a crank balancer and adding the dampener wheel, after the engineered tooling, it’s cutting about as good as it can. Next is to eliminate that pesky noise in the pulley drive, possibly causing some amount of vibration; so maybe I can still improve the surface finish.
In my opinion, that shank on the triangle shaped cutter looks to be designed to use a Weldon style tool holder. They have a set screw on one side that is designed to hold on to the machined flat portion of the shank.
If it’s works, it’s work 😂.
ditch the let me explain bit
Just get a machine that's meant to cut automotive heads and blocks! Your trying to reinvent the wheel! Wasting time and money.